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Speaker 1: Let's get into it because, as I mentioned, the Acting

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister and Defense Minister Richard Miles is in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory today to announce plans to increase Australia's commitment

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Speaker 1: to the Ukraine. Mister Miles is set to travel to

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Speaker 1: the Robertson Barracks in Palmerston to welcome home the latest

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Speaker 1: rotation of the seventy ADF personnel from the United Kingdom,

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Speaker 1: and he joins me on the line right now. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you, Acting Prime Minister.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. How are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very well, thank you so much for your time

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Speaker 1: this morning. Now, Minister, when are you heading out to

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Speaker 1: the Robertson Barracks to welcome those personnel back.

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Speaker 2: Look, we'll be heading out there later this morning and

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a real honor actually to meet

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Speaker 2: them on their return. I had the privilege of seeing

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Speaker 2: one of the earlier rotations in Britain earlier this year,

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Speaker 2: working with the new Ukrainian recruits. And I mean they

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Speaker 2: were doing the sort of training that might occur at

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Speaker 2: one level on any given day out at roberts And Barracks,

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Speaker 2: but another level this was completely different because this was

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Speaker 2: training being provided to people who were new recruits who

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Speaker 2: started this year in civilian life in Ukraine but had

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Speaker 2: put up their hands to engage in a conflict which

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Speaker 2: has a very high casualty rate. And there was a

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Speaker 2: level of seriousness and gravity about what our Australian personnel

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Speaker 2: were doing in training these people which was actually very poignant.

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Speaker 2: And they are making a difference. They're certainly giving people

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Speaker 2: the skills to stay alive and to be able to

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Speaker 2: keep in the fight in Ukraine, and they are playing

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Speaker 2: a really, really important role. And so in welcoming them

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Speaker 2: back today, we're also announcing that we're extending our commitment

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Speaker 2: to this program by another year. We're previously committed to

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Speaker 2: doing this training through the course of twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: will now do this through the course of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four as well in a slightly expanded way. So we're

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Speaker 2: very pleased to be able to make that an out.

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Speaker 1: What will extending that commitment mean, Obviously it does mean

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Speaker 1: extra defense personnel going over and helping out and doing

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Speaker 1: that training, as you've touched on, but I'm assuming additional

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Speaker 1: financial support.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean there is a cost to this obviously,

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Speaker 2: and this was reported in way so yesterday, So it's

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Speaker 2: about one hundred and eighty six million dollars over the

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Speaker 2: course of the two years, so that includes this year

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Speaker 2: and next year. The extended training will include some training

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Speaker 2: for young or junior officers. Right now, the training that

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Speaker 2: we are doing is literally to noncommissioned personnel, so as

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Speaker 2: soldiers as they are coming into the Ukrainian forces will

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Speaker 2: be doing some junior officer training as well next year,

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Speaker 2: so it's a slightly expanded range of training. But this

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Speaker 2: is it's the kind of it's kind of infantry training

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Speaker 2: that you would see at one level each and every

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Speaker 2: day out Robertson Barracks. That this is very proximate. Like

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Speaker 2: you know, when I was looking at the people who

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Speaker 2: were doing the training there in Britain, I mean what

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Speaker 2: what what kept coming really forward in my mind was

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Speaker 2: the idea that the exercises that they were doing there

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Speaker 2: they would be doing for real in just a matter

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Speaker 2: of weeks. And that s the gravity of this is

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Speaker 2: just on a completely different scale to their you know,

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Speaker 2: their daily work here in Australia. And when I was

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Speaker 2: speaking to Australians who are doing this, you know, they

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Speaker 2: very very much felt the significance of the moment and

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Speaker 2: the difference that they were making. So it's really useful.

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Speaker 2: There are skills that we've got to give to these

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Speaker 2: new recruits. I think that's also probably a point to

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Speaker 2: understand where the war is now out in Ukraine, we

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Speaker 2: really are talking about a civilian army. We're talking about

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Speaker 2: people who who are coming up the street and putting

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Speaker 2: their hand up to engage in this fight. And so

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Speaker 2: being able to impart this knowledge from people who have

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Speaker 2: been professional soldiers for a long time in this Australian

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Speaker 2: is a really really useful and important contribution that we

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Speaker 2: can make now.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is, as you've said, it is such

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Speaker 1: an important thing to do. I know that we have

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Speaker 1: spoken to defense personnel on this very subject and on

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Speaker 1: this very training on the show before and speaking to

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Speaker 1: them really gives you that first hand account of just

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Speaker 1: how important this training is. You know, when you talk

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Speaker 1: about the next rotation though heading off, when are they

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Speaker 1: due to head off and are we going to see

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Speaker 1: those increased numbers then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see increased numbers from the beginning of

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Speaker 2: next year. I mean they're basically three month rotation, so

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Speaker 2: we've had four through the course of this year and

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Speaker 2: that will be the tempo going into next year to

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Speaker 2: put some numbers on it. Whereas we've had about seventy

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Speaker 2: people going over per rotation this year, next year it'll

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Speaker 2: be ninety, so it will be finally expanded and that

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Speaker 2: picks up that junior officer training we will be done

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Speaker 2: in addition to the recruit training that has been done

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Speaker 2: through the course of this year. But those increased numbers

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Speaker 2: will pick up from the beginning of next year.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you talk about those increased numbers, I guess

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Speaker 1: you know we are indeed helping out in that conflict.

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Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people wondering, you know

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Speaker 1: why when we're talking those increased numbers numbers as well,

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Speaker 1: why are we not having more numbers here in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory And with the extra hundred troops to Darwin

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Speaker 1: after the DSR, surely we need more here than anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: Well, what we what the DFR made clear was that

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Speaker 2: if you like, the platform from which Australia can project,

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Speaker 2: and the ability to project was a key thesis, a

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Speaker 2: key principle within the DSR. The platform for Australia's projection

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Speaker 2: is Australia's north. That's kind of obvious, but the SR

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Speaker 2: made that very clear and so it does speak about

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Speaker 2: the need for an increased commitment to Northern Australia obviously

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Speaker 2: includes Darwin. And we're seeing that. I mean, we're seeing

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Speaker 2: that with the consolidation of the Infantry Brigade here in

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Speaker 2: the Northern in Darwin. We're seeing that with an increased

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Speaker 2: investment of infrastructure into bases around Darwin. And so that

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Speaker 2: emphasis on the North and we also see it in

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Speaker 2: North Queensland and north western Australia is very much a

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Speaker 2: part of what the DSR is about, and it's very

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Speaker 2: much a part of what the government is seeking to

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Speaker 2: do in terms of providing a focus to our defense forts,

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Speaker 2: which gives us the capability to project So I mean,

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Speaker 2: looking forward Darwin, Darwin is a critical part of Australia's

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Speaker 2: defense capability and Darwin really, you know, we need to

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Speaker 2: be seen, we do see as very much a national asset.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do we need more here though, I guess

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Speaker 1: that's the main point. That is something that you know

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Speaker 1: that people are really asking us this morning on the

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Speaker 1: techt line as well, we talk about bolstering those numbers

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Speaker 1: and you're seeing that, I guess in other parts of Australia,

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Speaker 1: places like Townsville, which I can understand. But that is

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Speaker 1: really the question from territories this morning. Should we have

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Speaker 1: those numbers increased further than what the government has committed to?

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Speaker 2: Well, as I say, there is an increased commitment to

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Speaker 2: darn an increase in terms of personnel, and increase in

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Speaker 2: expenditure on infrastructure, and that's the that does come out

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Speaker 2: of the Defense Strategic Review and it comes out of

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Speaker 2: the government's response to it. But I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: and we are taking those steps. I think going forward

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Speaker 2: that's only going to continue to grow because you know,

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Speaker 2: this is where this is where we need to be postured.

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Speaker 2: This is what we need to have a defense force

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Speaker 2: which is northern faced and has a growing presence here,

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Speaker 2: and that's exactly what the government's doing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it correct though, that we're still going

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Speaker 1: to have fewer troops here than what we did ten

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the answer that question is we are

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Speaker 2: increasing our troops from now and we are consolidating one

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Speaker 2: brigade in Darwin and that begins the process of growing

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Speaker 2: numbers here. I mean, it is right that there were

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Speaker 2: numbers that were taken out of darh And a decade ago,

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Speaker 2: but we will we're in the process of growing those

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Speaker 2: numbers now.

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Speaker 1: Minister. On the conflict in Gaza, I know the Federal

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Speaker 1: government has a will by some by some Israel and

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Speaker 1: Jewish groups being condemned and the Federal opposition as well

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Speaker 1: for backing this UN resolution calling for an immediate cease

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Speaker 1: firing Gaza, in a move that placed Australia at odds

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Speaker 1: with its closest allies were the US, and I know

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Speaker 1: that Britain abstained, but Australia was among one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty three nations to back the non binding resolution, which

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Speaker 1: Israel said would embolden Hamas and which the coalition lashed

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Speaker 1: as being a cynical ploy to save inner city seats

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Speaker 1: from the Greens. Why did the government take this step

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Speaker 1: after you know, well, this step after the US opposed as.

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Speaker 2: Well. The starting point here is that what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: in the Middle East is an unfolding tragedy, and the

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Speaker 2: focus of our international efforts has been around the preservation

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Speaker 2: of innocent lives, be they innocent Israelis or innocent Palestinians.

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Speaker 2: We've had a focus on humanitarian concerns, and that is

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Speaker 2: that's me consistent, and that's been also pretty consistent with

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Speaker 2: the position of other countries around the world, which would

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Speaker 2: include the United States. If you look at the positions

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Speaker 2: in detail that have been taken by our closest friends

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Speaker 2: and allies, you do see an enormous amount of concern

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Speaker 2: for humanitarian issues, for the preservation of innocent lives, and

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Speaker 2: those concerns are being expressed by the United States as well. Now,

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Speaker 2: we took a position in relation to the General Assembly

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Speaker 2: vote a couple of nights ago. We take each resolution

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Speaker 2: on its terms. On this occasion, issued a statement jointly

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Speaker 2: with Canada and New Zealand, two countries with whom we

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Speaker 2: have a lot in common, both Five Eyes countries, which

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Speaker 2: expressed our position, and in expressing our position, made clear

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Speaker 2: our condemnation of Hamas and the terrorist attacks which occurred

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Speaker 2: on the seventh of October, made clear our support for

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Speaker 2: Israel's right to defend itself, but also made clear that

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Speaker 2: in defending itself there needs to be a focus on

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Speaker 2: humanitarian issues and the preservation of innocent lives. Now that

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Speaker 2: position has been consistent, and I think every country who

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Speaker 2: is dealing with this gets the complexity and the difficulty,

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Speaker 2: but the messages are pretty clear. Yes, Israel definitely has

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Speaker 2: a right to defend itself. What Harmas did was absolutely appalling,

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Speaker 2: But in defending itself there has to be a focus

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Speaker 2: on the preservation of innocent lives and moving towards a

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Speaker 2: sea spire would do that. But we have also made

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Speaker 2: clear and made clear a couple of months ago, that

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Speaker 2: any seaspire cannot be one sided, that there needs to

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Speaker 2: be the really of hostages by Hamas. And again that

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Speaker 2: is a position that we have consistently put so you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't if you look at what we've done in

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Speaker 2: the last fourt out ours, it is consistent with what

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Speaker 2: we've been saying really from the outset of this latest issue,

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Speaker 2: and I think you can see consistently.

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Speaker 1: It does seem though. It does seem as though the

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Speaker 1: party is divided on this. I mean, the move obviously

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Speaker 1: follows Labor MP Josh Burns's declaration on the ground in

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Speaker 1: Israel this week that a premature seaspyre would only allow

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Speaker 1: Hamas to regroup to attack. I mean, is the party

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Speaker 1: divided on this? And where do you stand when you

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Speaker 1: have got different members saying various different things.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't accept that the party is divided. I

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Speaker 2: mean Josh Burns is making a valid point, which is

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Speaker 2: that a seaspire cannot be one side. And again that's

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Speaker 2: a position that we have been putting and put the

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Speaker 2: other night in the statement that we made in casting

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Speaker 2: our voat in the General Assembly. Sea fires can't be

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Speaker 2: one sided. There does need to be a release of

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Speaker 2: hostages by Hummas. I mean this is an issue which

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Speaker 2: is complex and it's really easy for people to jump

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Speaker 2: in and pick an aspect of what the government has

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Speaker 2: said or done and try and line it up against

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Speaker 2: other points on the journey. But if you actually take

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Speaker 2: the totality of what we have said, the positions that

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Speaker 2: we have taken in all of the texture, there has

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Speaker 2: been a consistency from the start. And yet we want

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Speaker 2: to see a move towards a seafire. A seafly cannot

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Speaker 2: be one sided. Humus must release hostages and that has

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Speaker 2: to be a part of it.

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Speaker 1: So, Acting Prime Minister, does the government still believe that

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Speaker 1: Israel has a right to defend itself.

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Speaker 2: We do, and we made that clear in the statement

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Speaker 2: that we issued in casting the vote that we did

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Speaker 2: in the General Assembly. Again that these are not positions

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Speaker 2: which can be articulated in twenty words. These are positions

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Speaker 2: which which which are It's a deeply complex issue, and

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Speaker 2: we made clear that Israel does have a right to

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Speaker 2: defend itself because it does, I mean the position what

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Speaker 2: what Hamas did on the seventh of October was an outrage,

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Speaker 2: an absolute outrage. Innocent Israelis were targeted and attacked, and

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Speaker 2: that made the acts that occurred then really acts of murder.

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Speaker 2: And in the context of that, Israel absolutely has a

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Speaker 2: light to defend itself, a position that we have consistently held,

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Speaker 2: a position that we still hold. But in defending itself,

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Speaker 2: it is really important that humanitarian issues are placed front

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Speaker 2: and center. We've seen a significant loss of innocent Powerian

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Speaker 2: lives and innocent lives being lost being a Palestinians or

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Speaker 2: Israelis have exactly the same value, and that's a position

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Speaker 2: that we've maintained as well indicted and really the position

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Speaker 2: that we took in the General Assembly, And in taking

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Speaker 2: that position, we wanted to issue a statement so that

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Speaker 2: we could explain our position in its full complexity, articulates

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Speaker 2: all of what I've just articulated.

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Speaker 1: Now, Minister, before I let you go a topic that

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Speaker 1: we have discussed in well I think. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: something that we've spoken about on numerous occasions around the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory, and that is you know, that is immigration.

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Speaker 1: I know that the announcement was made that you are

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Speaker 1: indeed having those numbers. Are there any plans from the

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Speaker 1: federal government? You know, we see as people moved to

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Speaker 1: Australia from other locations, and we see the strain that

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Speaker 1: that has on those capital cities. But why not have

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Speaker 1: people spend some time in regional Australia and really try

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Speaker 1: to push to you know, to have people work in

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Speaker 1: places like Darwin or places like Alice Springs even more remote.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, it's a good question, and I think the

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Speaker 2: starting point there is that in articulating a migration of strategy,

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Speaker 2: the first thing we are doing here is actually trying

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Speaker 2: to think about our migration system in terms of the

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Speaker 2: contribution it can make to our national economy. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the very fact of having a migration strategy means that

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Speaker 2: in the sense we're trying to grip this up in

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Speaker 2: a way that hasn't been done previously and certainly the

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Speaker 2: issue of what kind of skilled migration we need and

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Speaker 2: where we need it are really important aspects that we

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Speaker 2: have thought about in terms of articulating the strategy. And

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Speaker 2: we do want to have a migration system which is

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Speaker 2: much more focused on being able to build our economy

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Speaker 2: through having people come with the skills that our economy needs.

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Speaker 2: And so those are definitely issues that are all being

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Speaker 2: considered across the board. It is a reduction in the intake,

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Speaker 2: but that has to be seen in a context where

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Speaker 2: the last couple of years we've had record numbers of

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Speaker 2: people coming in, which in part is a correction from

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Speaker 2: the pandemic and the fact that you know, because of

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Speaker 2: the pandemic we had borders closed for a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: But we do need to get those migration numbers down

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Speaker 2: to a more normal pre pandemic number. But in doing that,

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Speaker 2: we are definitely trying to make sure that the scheme

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Speaker 2: is much more directed to providing our country with the

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Speaker 2: skills that it needs.

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Speaker 1: I mean, would you look at incentivizing though people heading

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Speaker 1: to places like Northern Australia. We've got you know, we've

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Speaker 1: got a skill shortage across a lot of different areas.

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Speaker 1: Even when you look at the health sector at the moment,

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Speaker 1: would you look at incentivizing to try and get people

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Speaker 1: that are migrating to Australia to actually spend time in

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Speaker 1: places like Northern Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the question that you're asked

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Speaker 2: highlights the fact that when you look at the question

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Speaker 2: of migration, you see really differing needs around the country.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're right in pointing out that the situation

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Speaker 2: and Dale is very different to the situation in Sydney,

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Speaker 2: and there are programs which do provide incentives now in

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Speaker 2: areas like health for doctors for example. So thinking about

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Speaker 2: how this can work for localities is definitely something that

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Speaker 2: is in our thinking.

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Speaker 1: Well, acting Prime Minister and also Minister for Defense. We

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Speaker 1: really appreciate your time this morning, Richard Miles, thank you

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Speaker 1: so very much for your time. Thanks Katy, thank you