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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, when parents make comments about their children's weight, that

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Speaker 2: actually reduces the likelihood that the child will exercise, and

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Speaker 2: it increases the likelihood that child is going to overeat,

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Speaker 2: especially around unhealthy foods.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, I'm justin and I'm coing. You weren't expecting that

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Speaker 2: if Night and we are the cousins, were behind happy

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Speaker 2: families dot com dot you, and we do everything we

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Speaker 2: can to help make your family happier. I've written a

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Speaker 2: bunch of books about how to do that. And Kylie

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Speaker 2: Mum to our six daughters. You can ask your questions

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Speaker 2: and once a week we do our best to be

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Speaker 2: as helpful as possible in responding to them. You send

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Speaker 2: the emails to podcasts at happy families dot com dot you.

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Speaker 2: That's podcasts with an s, podcasts at happy families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot you. Michelle, send us an email and ask

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Speaker 2: for some help, and we're going to do our best.

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Speaker 2: With a very serious conversation.

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Speaker 3: Today, Michelle's got a question about body image. She says,

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Speaker 3: my daughter is eight years old, and she said she's

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Speaker 3: fat a number of times and has been very self

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Speaker 3: conscious about herself and bathe this over the past summer.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea where it has come from, as

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Speaker 3: I am very careful and do not talk about my

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Speaker 3: and other people's weight or looks, not that it matters.

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Speaker 3: But she is not overweight at all, nor is anyone

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Speaker 3: in our family. I've read things about body image and

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Speaker 3: kids before, but I would love a refresher and something

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Speaker 3: from your point of view.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm sure you've got plenty to say about it,

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Speaker 2: because you're a mum and we've got six daughters. I've

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Speaker 2: got heaps to say on this because I researched it

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Speaker 2: intently when I wrote misconnection. But before we do that,

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Speaker 2: I just want to make a short note for any

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Speaker 2: parents that are listening to this. When we're talking about

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Speaker 2: body image issues, and particularly the heavier things around anarexia, bolimia,

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Speaker 2: body dysmorphia and other eating disorders, that's well beyond the

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Speaker 2: scope of this conversation. There are loads of excellent resources

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Speaker 2: available if you fear that you need them, but I

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Speaker 2: would say get professional help. It's also worth highlighting that

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Speaker 2: body image issues can lead to anarexia and other issues.

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Speaker 2: Anarexia has the highest mortality rate of any disorder in

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Speaker 2: the DSM five, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual basically the

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Speaker 2: Bible psychologists. So the consequences can be severe. If you're

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Speaker 2: genuinely worried about body image issues, definitely worth talking to

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Speaker 2: a mental health or a medical professional about it. With

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Speaker 2: that disclaimer, let's talk about it. What are your thoughts

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Speaker 2: when you hear Michelle's question.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I know a single woman who has

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Speaker 3: not at some point struggled with her own body image.

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Speaker 3: You know, as mums, our bodies are consistently and constantly changing,

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Speaker 3: and some of those changes we welcome, and some of

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Speaker 3: them we really struggle with. And as I've read Michelle's question,

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Speaker 3: it occurred to me that, regardless of how conscious we

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Speaker 3: are of making sure we actually don't, you know, talk

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Speaker 3: about weight or point out other people's features and things

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Speaker 3: like that, our children are being bombarded with this message

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Speaker 3: through media, through the playground, because whether you're being conscious

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Speaker 3: about it, other people aren't. You know, children are teasing

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Speaker 3: the playground all the time about being fat or chubby

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Speaker 3: or this is an age old thing. This is not new.

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Speaker 2: The concern that I have is that we send a

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Speaker 2: message to primarily to girls. It doesn't happen with men

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Speaker 2: or males in any degree of not even close, not

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Speaker 2: even within the same galaxy as it does for females,

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Speaker 2: that their worth is indexed to the size of their genes,

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Speaker 2: that their worth as a human being comes down to

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Speaker 2: their physical appearance. And it's just so wrong. When I

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Speaker 2: wrote Misconnection, I did a survey, interviewed girls, did focus groups,

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Speaker 2: have conversations with parents, teachers. Of the three hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty seven girls that I surveyed, who actually answered the

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Speaker 2: question about what's the hardest thing about being a teenage girl,

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Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty one of them, sixty eight percent

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Speaker 2: of them said body image. So friends was at the

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Speaker 2: top of the list, and body image it was in

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Speaker 2: the top three for pretty much all of them. This

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Speaker 2: is a massive issue, And as Michelle has said, this

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Speaker 2: starts at the age of well, this is an eight

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Speaker 2: year old who's saying I'm fat.

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Speaker 3: It's devastating at that stage. That's a huge concern for

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Speaker 3: an eight year old.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, have a listened to this. I'm going to read

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Speaker 2: just about sixty seconds eighty seconds from my book Misconnection,

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Speaker 2: in the chapter that I called pixel perfect because it

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Speaker 2: puts it into perspective just how serious this issue is

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Speaker 2: as a female issue. The desire to be hot is

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Speaker 2: almost entirely women's issue, especially when it comes to taking

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Speaker 2: serious measures to improve one's appearance. Internationally, close to ninety

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Speaker 2: percent of cosmetic procedures are performed on women, ninety percent.

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Speaker 2: Pause for a moment and ask yourself who's more likely

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Speaker 2: to experience anerexiro bolimia. Your immediate response would be girls

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Speaker 2: and women, and you'd be right to expect that at

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Speaker 2: least seventy percent of cases of female Reading about what

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Speaker 2: the girls I surveyed said about their bodies and hearing

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Speaker 2: how the girls openly spoke to me about body image

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Speaker 2: issues made one point unmistakable. When it comes to how

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Speaker 2: appearance impacts my life, my experience is breathtakingly different to

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Speaker 2: that of a woman's. I want to read the results

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Speaker 2: of a study here. The World Health Organization conducted a

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Speaker 2: survey of more than two hundred thousand people in forty

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Speaker 2: two countries. In every single country, girls at age fifteen

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Speaker 2: were more likely than boys were to report that they

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Speaker 2: were fat, This is despite the fact that the boys

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Speaker 2: were actually more likely to be overweight. In other words,

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Speaker 2: gender predicts who will feel fat better than it predicts

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Speaker 2: who will be fat. More generally, the beauty ideal and

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Speaker 2: the body image issues actually work howter to healthy physical development.

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Speaker 2: As boys enter puberty, their bodies change in ways that

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Speaker 2: align with society's ideal. The shoulders broadened, they gain muscle mass,

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Speaker 2: they become more ideally manly. Suddenly boys are winning, and

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Speaker 2: they didn't do anything to find themselves in that position

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Speaker 2: except to stay alive. On the other hand, as girls

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Speaker 2: progress into puberty, they're hips widen, they often gain weight

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Speaker 2: around their thighs. It's normal and natural that they do this,

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Speaker 2: but we live in a society that says it's not.

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Speaker 2: Girls therefore move away from the ideal as they experience

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Speaker 2: natural development. According to this unfair and unhealthy beauty ideal,

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Speaker 2: healthy girls are losing just by developing naturally.

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Speaker 3: I know that this is a predominantly female challenge, but

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Speaker 3: I think it's really important to highlight that boys do

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Speaker 3: go through this process as well.

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Speaker 2: They do, just not nearly to the same extent. Regardless

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Speaker 2: of whether it's a male or a female. Though if

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Speaker 2: we've got a child with a body image concern, which

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Speaker 2: is highly likely if we've got girls, and it is

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Speaker 2: possible and does happen when we've got boys, we need

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Speaker 2: to know how to deal with it. So let's talk

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Speaker 2: about the best way to respond in just a second.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 4: Are Screens Creating Tension at home Tweens, Teens and Screens

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Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.

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Speaker 4: Bye today at happyfamilies dot com dot AU slash shop.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now and today we

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Speaker 3: are answering Michelle's question on podcasts at Happy families dot

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Speaker 3: com dot A.

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Speaker 2: You Yeah, the question is about body image. Got an

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Speaker 2: eight year old daughter saying that she's fat, keeps on

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Speaker 2: talking about it, Mum, I'm so fat, I need to

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Speaker 2: lose weight. I'm not happy about my parents. What do

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Speaker 2: I do?

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Speaker 3: So? What can Michelle do?

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Speaker 2: How can we help?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 2: I think that the first thing that we need to

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Speaker 2: really be aware of is there is now substantial research.

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Speaker 2: In fact, there's been research around for a few years

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Speaker 2: that highlights that talking about bodyweight does not help things.

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Speaker 2: I was on the Today Show several years ago, and

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Speaker 2: I won't name the hosts who asked me the question,

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Speaker 2: but he actually said, if you've got a kid who fat,

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Speaker 2: surely you need to tell them you're overweight. You need

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Speaker 2: to do something about it. My response was very clear.

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Speaker 2: I won't mention his name, but I said, they already

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Speaker 2: know that they're fat. They don't need to be told,

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Speaker 2: and what the research tells us. In fact, a study

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Speaker 2: from the Journal of Health Psychology just a few years

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Speaker 2: ago showed that when parents make comments about their children's weight,

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Speaker 2: that actually reduces the likelihood that the child will exercise,

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Speaker 2: and it increases the likelihood that child is going to overeat,

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Speaker 2: especially around unhealthy foods. There is no benefit whatsoever to

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Speaker 2: talking to a child and saying you need to lose weight,

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Speaker 2: you're overweight, there's a weight issue. Now, it sounds like

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Speaker 2: in Michelle's case, that's not even what's going on. This

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Speaker 2: is a child who is not overweight anyway, but she

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Speaker 2: feels like she is, which goes back to that World

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Speaker 2: Health Organization study that I mentioned. So I reckon, there's

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Speaker 2: a handful of things that we can do and I'm

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Speaker 2: sure that you'll have some ideas as well. I've got

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Speaker 2: five ideas that I'm going to share. Number one, we've

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Speaker 2: got to be an example. We simply have got to

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Speaker 2: stop talking about appearance, full stop. End of story. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you catch up with a friend, you say, wow,

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Speaker 2: you look great. Oh, you don't look like you've aged

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Speaker 2: at all, or gee, you're looking really fit, you're looking

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Speaker 2: really trim, or maybe we don't say anything when we

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Speaker 2: see them because they're not looking that great. And then

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Speaker 2: we get back into the car and we say to

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Speaker 2: our husband or our partner, oh my goodness, can you

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Speaker 2: believe how much weight she's put in the last few years.

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Speaker 2: And the kids sitting in the backseat they hear that conversation.

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Speaker 2: We can't get together with our girlfriends or our mates

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Speaker 2: and say, oh, gee whiz, I had a bad weekend.

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Speaker 2: Over on the weekend, I add a bit too much cake,

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Speaker 2: I did a bit too much lazing around and went

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Speaker 2: too hard on the calories. When we have that conversation,

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Speaker 2: we teach our children all the wrong things. So that's

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Speaker 2: the first one. We've got to be an example. Number two,

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Speaker 2: we've got to forget this concept of media literacy. You know,

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Speaker 2: everyone's saying, oh, you've got to show the kids the

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Speaker 2: photo shopping. You've got to talk to them about the

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Speaker 2: makeup artists and the money and the lighting, and we've

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Speaker 2: got to deconstruct the imagery that we're seeing. There's no

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Speaker 2: research that actually supports that as a useful idea. In fact,

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Speaker 2: it's an unhealthy idea. Why let me ask you, what

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Speaker 2: are you focusing on when you're looking at the image

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Speaker 2: and deconstructing it that.

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Speaker 3: They've improved it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And when kids look at those images, they

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Speaker 2: know photoshops a thing, They know that there's filters, they

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Speaker 2: know how snapchat and Instagram work. They get it, but

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Speaker 2: that doesn't stop them aspiring for it. They know that

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Speaker 2: it's fake, but they still want to look like that.

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Speaker 2: In other words, when you're saying here's all the fake stuff,

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Speaker 2: they're saying, yeah, yeah, I know it's fake, but it

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Speaker 2: looks good. It looks good, and I'm focusing on the appearance.

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Speaker 2: Media literacy stuff doesn't help. It actually undermines the very

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Speaker 2: thing that we're trying to do. The third thing that

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Speaker 2: I would say is we want to talk to our

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Speaker 2: kids not about how they look, but about what their

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Speaker 2: bodies can do. I love this one focus on function

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Speaker 2: not form. In fact, I'm doing a presentation today at

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Speaker 2: a school in Brisbane, and while I don't talk to

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Speaker 2: students a lot, I'm going to be talking to students

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Speaker 2: about this particular issue. I'm at a girls school. It's

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Speaker 2: a really lovely school in the inner suburbs of Brisbane,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to be talking about body image because

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Speaker 2: I'm talking to girls and the thing that I'm going

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Speaker 2: to be talking to them about specifically is how they

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Speaker 2: can be happy. And we're going to talk about their bodies.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to talk to them about function versus form,

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Speaker 2: and I'm basically going to say I just want you

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Speaker 2: to put up your hand or keep a tally. We're

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Speaker 2: going to kind of play body bingo. If your body

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Speaker 2: can do this? Can your body drive a car? Can

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Speaker 2: your body rock climb? Can you have you done the macarina?

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Speaker 2: Can you turn your ride lids inside out? Can you

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Speaker 2: pat a dolphin? Have you made something that you're proud of?

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Speaker 2: Can you raise one eyebrow? Have you rolled down a

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Speaker 2: hill with your body? Have you used your body to

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Speaker 2: run five k's? Have you used a body to give

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Speaker 2: a massage like you get the idea, can you use

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Speaker 2: your body to twitch your nose, or swim in the ocean,

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Speaker 2: or do a cartwheel, or lick your elbow, or have

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Speaker 2: a pillow fight or do the splits. And obviously we

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Speaker 2: can't do all of these things. Not everyone can do

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Speaker 2: all this stuff. But when we focus on what our

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Speaker 2: body can do, we forget about what it looks like.

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Speaker 2: Can you push your little sister on a swing? Can

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Speaker 2: you walk the dog with your dad? It's a much

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Speaker 2: more productive conversation to have with our children focus on function,

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Speaker 2: not form.

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Speaker 3: I think it flows in really nicely to this idea

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Speaker 3: of helping our children to find their strengths and recognize

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Speaker 3: their strengths. And we do those most of the time.

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Speaker 3: Our strengths come as a result of the way we

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Speaker 3: use our bodies. And I love when we are able

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Speaker 3: to have conversations with our children about those strengths, about

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Speaker 3: things that their body does that allows them to live

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Speaker 3: fulfilling lives.

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Speaker 2: It's never about how they look. The next thing that

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Speaker 2: I would say is, as the parent, you have an

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Speaker 2: opportunity to mold and shape the activities that your child's

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Speaker 2: engaged in. And so while I'm not going to suggest

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Speaker 2: that you make sure that they go and start doing

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Speaker 2: park runs on the weekend and get the five k's

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Speaker 2: in every Saturday morning, or that you do anything over

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Speaker 2: the top. You do have some say in how they engage,

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Speaker 2: who they engage with, where they engage, in what they do.

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Speaker 2: So i'd be say, reduce screens because that displaces physical activity.

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Speaker 2: Find opportunities for them to do physical activity with another person,

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Speaker 2: whether it's you or whether it's your partner, whether it's

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Speaker 2: their siblings, whether it's their friends. Get them on the

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Speaker 2: bike and let them right around the neighborhood like that

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Speaker 2: just doesn't happen in Australian neighborhoods anymore, and it should

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Speaker 2: be happening. Yesterday I sent the kids to the park.

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Speaker 2: I said, guys, just go down to the park. There's

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Speaker 2: a couple of big kids and there's a couple of

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Speaker 2: little kids. You'll be fine. I'ld join you in about

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes. I've got a few more jobs to do

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Speaker 2: and then I'll be there and then you and I

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Speaker 2: walked down to the park and spend a few minutes

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Speaker 2: with them during the afternoon, to just have that time

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Speaker 2: with them, get them using their bodies. They don't have

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Speaker 2: to be involved in formal squad training in the pool,

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Speaker 2: although that's great. They just need to be out and

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Speaker 2: active and off their screens. You know.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that we noticed a little while

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Speaker 3: ago and we did a move, was we'd come from

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Speaker 3: a really active neighborhood where the kids were out and

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Speaker 3: about every afternoon, and then we came into a neighborhood

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Speaker 3: where there just was no children out and about in

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Speaker 3: the afternoon. And over a period of time, we recognized

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Speaker 3: that we'd become quite sedentary in the way we were

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Speaker 3: living life, and so we recognized that it was something

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Speaker 3: that we kind of all needed to work on. And

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Speaker 3: so the conversation we had around the dinner table was

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Speaker 3: that we wanted to move our bodies more. That we

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Speaker 3: wanted to, you know, kind of give our bodies movement

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Speaker 3: and be more conscious in the choices we were making

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Speaker 3: to have a healthy body. And so our conversations around

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Speaker 3: the dinner table were, let's have a look at what

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Speaker 3: we're eating, and let's have a look at the kinds

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Speaker 3: of activities that we're doing, and how we could use

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Speaker 3: our bodies better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we probably need to have another one of those

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Speaker 2: conversations based on all the cake that we ate over

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Speaker 2: the weekend. The last point that I'll make it relates

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Speaker 2: to that, and that is that we if we're going

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Speaker 2: to be talking about diet, and I don't recommend it,

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Speaker 2: but if we're going to talk about diet, I would

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Speaker 2: say avoid any diet that's focused on weight reduction. Instead,

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Speaker 2: conversations should be what can we do to have more

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Speaker 2: food in our diet that makes us feel vital and energized.

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Speaker 3: I think the only thing I'd add to that is

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Speaker 3: it's just so important that as adults, in our little

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Speaker 3: people's lives, that we stop talking about what we look like,

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Speaker 3: what others look like, and focus on what our bodies

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Speaker 3: are doing. I mean, it's what you've already said, but

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Speaker 3: just an acknowledgment that as adults, it's so easy for

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Speaker 3: us to fall into the trap of being flabbergasted when

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Speaker 3: we see someone and we haven't seen them for so

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Speaker 3: long and they have put on weight or they've changed so,

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Speaker 3: you know, the receding hairline or they've gone gray or.

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Speaker 2: Whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: We are so focused on physical appearance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't focus on the physical, don't focus on the superficial.

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Speaker 2: We really hope that this has been a useful conversation

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Speaker 2: for you. You can get more info about everything we've discussed

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Speaker 2: in my book Misconnection, Why your teenage doughder Hates You

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Speaker 2: Expects the World needs to Talk in chapter four, Pixel Perfect.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhlon from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media, and we get all of our great ideas

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Speaker 2: and advice from Craig Bruce, He's our executive producer. If

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Speaker 2: you'd like to know more about how you can make

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Speaker 2: your family happier, We've got this really cool Facebook page

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Speaker 2: with about one hundred and seventy five thousand people who

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Speaker 2: are part of our community, and we love sharing a

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Speaker 2: load of free stuff there. It's called doctor Justin Coulson's

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Speaker 2: Happy Families. If you'd like more in depth and more

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Speaker 2: personalized ways to make your family happier, you can join

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Speaker 2: the Happy Families membership. All the details are at our

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Speaker 2: website happyfamilies dot com dot au