1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,280 Speaker 1: As I mentioned just a short time ago, we know 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: that nationally a pretty big decision was made yesterday that 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: could have significant ramifications for the Northern Territory. The federal government, 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: of course securing the support that it needs to implement 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: its central climate change commitment after reaching a deal with 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: the Greens following months of safeguard mechanism negotiations. Now the 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: safeguard mechanism it is going to impose emissions limits on 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifteen of the largest polluting facilities in 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: the country, and the Greens support for the policy requires 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: the government to impose a hard cap on emissions. Adam 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: Bant says it will stop one hundred and sixteen coal 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: and gas projects from being able to open. Apia, Australia's 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: oil and gas industry body says the changes to the 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: safeguard mechanism ignore the central role of natural gas in 15 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: meeting Australia's climate goals, but the Environment Center for the 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: Northern Territory says that the decision sounds the death knell 17 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: for the new gas pro projects in the Northern Territory, 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: including the Beaterloo and the Barossa projects. Now joining me 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: on the line is Kirsty Howie, executive director of the 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: Environment Center here in the Northern Territory. Good morning to you, Kirsty. 21 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: Hi Katie, how are you? 22 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? Really good, Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, 23 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: what was your reaction to yesterday's announcement. 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: Well, it was a really momentous moment I suppose in 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: the long and turgid history of climate action in Australia. 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: It's probably the most significant decision that's been taken from 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: a federal perspective on climate in at least a decade. 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: And we think it's got serious implications for Northern Territory 29 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: gas projects, including the Beadlo and the Baroca that were 30 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: singled out by Adam Bant in the announcement yesterday, and 31 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: put real hurdles in front of those projects proceeding, which 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: we think is a good thing because these projects are 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 2: carbon bombs that are going to have a significant impact 34 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: on the climate, not just here but globally and they 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: really shouldn't proceed if we are to have a safe 36 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: and livable climate in the future. 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think it's going to mean for 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: those projects? I know that certainly APIA have been out 39 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: saying that the deal announced would ultimately make Australia's climate 40 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: change targets harder and more costly to meet. I mean, 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: what do you make of the announcement I mean of 42 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: the announcement yesterday in terms of the impact for the territory. 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: Well, of course, our position is is that gas projects 44 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: and Happier is the peak body for the gas industry 45 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 2: in Australia, will increase emissions and they shouldn't play a 46 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: part in getting to net zero. They can't play a 47 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: part in getting to net zero. But the really key 48 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: thing here with respect to Northern territory gas projects is 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: that it's going to add to the costs of these 50 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: projects going ahead. So in the case of the Beteloo Basin, 51 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: this is a huge, huge project in terms of its emissions. 52 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 2: Some twenty two million tons of emissions per year will 53 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 2: be generated just from extraction of that gas and processing 54 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: probably in Darwin. And what this deal says is that 55 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: the gas companies need to pay for the cost of 56 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: that pollution and to offset that pollution. We estimate that 57 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: at about eight hundred million dollars per year. But the 58 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: gas companies are going to need to find and it 59 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: could be more like one point five billion dollars a 60 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: year to offset those emissions. So it's a significant cost 61 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: on new entrants from coal and gas projects across Australia, 62 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: but particularly in the Northern Territory. 63 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: Kirsty, do you think the decision is going to mean 64 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: we have power issues on the East Coast or that 65 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: it could mean increases to the cost of power. 66 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: Look, I don't think that's the case at all. 67 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 3: The reality is about the gas industry in Australia is 68 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: that three quarters of gas in Australia gets exported. We 69 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 3: don't have a gas supply issue, We've got a gas 70 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 3: export issue, and these gas companies are making literally billions of. 71 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: Dollars off these exports. That's going to be the same 72 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: with Beaterloo Gas and Borosagas for that moment, which for 73 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 2: that manner, which is coming off a project north of 74 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: the Tiery Islands, so it's exported and it's planned to 75 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: be exported, so it's not going to have any impact 76 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 2: on prices within Australia whether or not this goes ahead. 77 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: We reject that assertion. 78 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: And so when it comes to power security, not just 79 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: for not just for us here in the Northern Territory, 80 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: but across the nation. You don't feel as though yesterday's 81 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: announcement it's going to have any impact in any way. 82 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: It is still going We're going to be able to 83 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: forge ahead with renewables and it's not going to cost 84 00:04:58,320 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: more money. 85 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: Look, we think that there's an obvious path which is renewables, 86 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 2: and instead of putting all our stock in the gas industry, 87 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: which is what's been happening here. From a Northern Territory 88 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: government perspective and an Australian government perspective, we need to 89 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: be transitioning much more quickly to renewable energy. And as 90 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 2: I said before, we don't have a gas supply issue 91 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 2: in Australia. What we don't have is a domestic gas 92 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: reservation policy. It means that the huge profits that these 93 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: companies are making from gas that Australians and everyday people 94 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 2: in Australia and people who are paying their electricity bills 95 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 2: can feel the benefit of. So that's a massive failure 96 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: of Australian energy policy and this particular policy won't have 97 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 2: any impact on that. 98 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: Well, Kirsty, how it is always good to catch up 99 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: with you. I'm sorry we don't have more time. We 100 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: will no doubt talk to you again in the very 101 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: near future. Thank you for having a chat. 102 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: This morning, Thanks Katie, and thanks to your listeners. 103 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: Thank you.