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Speaker 1: So Parliament last week Sat and on Friday during the show,

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Speaker 1: we played you some of the audio from the Education Minister,

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Speaker 1: Evia Lawler, unleashing on the colp's education spokesperson, claiming that

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Speaker 1: she had racist views about Sorry Day. It came after

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Speaker 1: Joe Hersey had raised concerns with the Minister about a

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Speaker 1: Palmeston teacher passing on their beliefs to students getting them

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Speaker 1: to express what they're sorry for as part of Sorry

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Speaker 1: Day activities. Joe Hersey joins me on the line right now.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Joe, Good.

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Speaker 2: Morning Katie, and good morning listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Joe, it was pretty full on. I've got to

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Speaker 1: say when I finally got my hands on and I

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Speaker 1: mean I did listen. I was listening to Question Time

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Speaker 1: when this all unfolded on Thursday. We didn't get the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to talk about it on Friday during the week

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Speaker 1: that was, but it was pretty full on. Now, for

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Speaker 1: those of our listeners who didn't hear what Evil law

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Speaker 1: has said in Parliament on Thursday during Question Time, I

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Speaker 1: will just play part of that audio for our listeners.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen.

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Speaker 3: For our member for Catherine writes to me and said

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Speaker 3: I'm concerned that the beliefs of the teacher are being

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Speaker 3: passed on to the children in what's been written, especially

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Speaker 3: those too young to understand the repercussions. Absolutely, what a

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Speaker 3: racist bigger than an ignorant statement from the MENG for

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Speaker 3: Catherine and I pity the day if you are ever

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Speaker 3: an education minister where you would be going to schools

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Speaker 3: and saying you can't talk about National Sorry Day, which

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Speaker 3: is absolutely an important day for Territorians and for people

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Speaker 3: in Australia. You are a cold hearted, nasty old the

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Speaker 3: terrible thing to say. But that is a shocking letter

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Speaker 3: to write to me.

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Speaker 1: So it was a pretty full outburst. I mean, what

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Speaker 1: was your reaction in Parliament when that all unfolded.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, it was. It was very full on and

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Speaker 2: I did stand up and ask for it to be removed.

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Speaker 2: It is this is a pattern of behavior that the

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Speaker 2: Education Minister Eva Laula has on with forwards me. We

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Speaker 2: saw in estimates where she had to be the whole

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Speaker 2: process had to be shut down. She had to get

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Speaker 2: herself together after calling me pathetic when I raised safety

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Speaker 2: concerns of teachers and students in schools, and then Katie

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Speaker 2: this email from a concerned constituent was the grandmother of

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Speaker 2: a child actually went to myself and the minister back

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Speaker 2: in mid September. So for her to have hung on

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Speaker 2: to that and not responded when I had emailed her

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Speaker 2: as well, and to hang on to that and unleash

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Speaker 2: on that tirade of absolutely unparliamentary behavior, whether you're in

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Speaker 2: parliament or out to speak to people the way she

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Speaker 2: does is totally unacceptable. And I think that's what we've

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Speaker 2: got to realize. You remember here, it is unacceptable, and

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Speaker 2: you know it is. I was not acting. They were

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Speaker 2: not racist concerns. It is not about being divisive. You know,

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Speaker 2: all parts of history in the curriculum are important, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and that's you know, it's a history is history for

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Speaker 2: a reason. But this is a child in primary school

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Speaker 2: that my concern is would not have the emotional capacity

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Speaker 2: to be able to deal with this issue and that

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Speaker 2: I said, it's not about race and it's not about

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Speaker 2: being divided. But for the Minister to hold on to

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Speaker 2: that and absolutely slammed me in parliament like she did

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Speaker 2: is totally unacceptable.

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Speaker 1: So do you think she's got some kind of vendetta

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Speaker 1: against you?

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Speaker 2: I don't know whether she's got a vendetta against me

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Speaker 2: or not. Katie. The issue is I am holding her

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Speaker 2: to account and clearly she doesn't like it. My job

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Speaker 2: as a shadow Education Minister or as the meniver for

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Speaker 2: Catherine is to take the concerns of concerns of constituents

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Speaker 2: to the Parliament. So they are not my concerns. They

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Speaker 2: are concerns of constituents and my role is to hold

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Speaker 2: government to account over that. And isn't like it, well,

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Speaker 2: that's up to her. So I'm just doing my job

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Speaker 2: and to be unleashed in the way that she did

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Speaker 2: was extremely parliamentary. It was offensive. It was asked to

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Speaker 2: be withdrawn. We have actually asked Handsub to be with

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Speaker 2: to withdraw it, and the Speaker did actually ask her

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Speaker 2: to withdraw it as well.

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Speaker 1: And just taught me through, Like the letter was tabled

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Speaker 1: from that concerned grandparent, what did it say and what

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Speaker 1: was the concern that was actually being raised.

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Speaker 2: The concern was the grandmother. You know, there were there

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Speaker 2: were things it is tabled out there for for people

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Speaker 2: to go and have a look at. But the child.

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Speaker 2: It was on the National Storry Day and the child

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Speaker 2: was asked to write some you know quotes on what

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Speaker 2: she was sorry for. Now, Katie, as I said, this

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Speaker 2: is this is a child in primary school who I

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Speaker 2: get back to that I don't think would have the

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Speaker 2: emotional capacity to be able to deal with the issue.

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Speaker 1: So Joe, just I want to make it really clear,

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Speaker 1: like your concern here is not their children are being

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Speaker 1: taught about sorry day in the curriculum. It was more

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Speaker 1: a concern that the grandmar had raised about this particular

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Speaker 1: activity where the children were being asked to write down

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Speaker 1: what they as individuals were sorry for.

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Speaker 2: Correct. Correct, And what I'll get back to Katie is

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Speaker 2: that I am always out there, you know, commenting for

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Speaker 2: equity and equality in education right across the territory. This

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Speaker 2: gets back to a bigger issue that you know, what

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Speaker 2: schools need to be doing is teaching reading, writing, arithmatic.

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Speaker 2: We know that the nap Land results were very poor.

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Speaker 2: We know that fifty eight percent of all students in

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Speaker 2: the territory are not meeting the literacy and numery standards,

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Speaker 2: and eighty five percent of those children are Aboriginal. So this,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a bigger picture here that we need

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Speaker 2: to spend more emphasis on the literacy and numeracy of

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Speaker 2: the school. But this is a concerned grandparent that has

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Speaker 2: raised this with me. She did also raise it with

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Speaker 2: the minister, and the minister chose to unleash on me

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Speaker 2: for doing my job.

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Speaker 1: Joe. You know, the accusation was that you had you

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Speaker 1: know that you'd acted in a in a racist way

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Speaker 1: or I can't you know, to paraphrase what the minister

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Speaker 1: had said. I mean, what is your response to that?

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Speaker 1: Are you concerned about kids being taught about sorry day

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Speaker 1: in school?

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Speaker 2: No, no, I'm absolutely not, Katie. What I'm concerned is

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Speaker 2: about you know, history is very important in the curriculum,

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Speaker 2: but it needs to be taught in areas that are

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Speaker 2: appropriate for primary school students. But the issue is this

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Speaker 2: was brought up with the minister. She chose not to,

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Speaker 2: you know, get back to the constituent herself leashed in me.

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Speaker 2: Why didn't she get back earlier? Why did she unleash

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Speaker 2: on me in parliament? It's absolutely not acceptable and I

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Speaker 2: am absolutely not against children learning about history and that

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Speaker 2: plays a very important role in the school curriculum, but

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Speaker 2: it needs to be focused on the level of a

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Speaker 2: capacity and emotional capacity for the child of whatever age

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Speaker 2: they are.

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Speaker 1: So was there any response from the minister in relation

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Speaker 1: to that and relation to the actual concern that was

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Speaker 1: raised by the grandma here, or was it just resorting

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Speaker 1: to that name calling.

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Speaker 2: There was no response by email to myself, there was

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Speaker 2: no response to the grandmother, and the minister just chose to,

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Speaker 2: as I said, hang on to it and give me

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Speaker 2: an absolute spray calling me racist, which I take to.

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Speaker 2: But it's absolutely offensive because I am not I represent

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Speaker 2: as the members of Catherine. We have many three Indigenous

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Speaker 2: communities that I travel out to on a regular basis.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of those people, whether my husband

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Speaker 2: played footy with them, my kids went to school with them.

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Speaker 2: I am not a racist person. And for her to

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Speaker 2: get up in call in parliament and call me racist

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Speaker 2: and ignorant and bigoted and whatever else she called me

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Speaker 2: there old Okay, yeah, I'm fifty six. Maybe that's old.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Katie, but you know it's unparliamentary what

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Speaker 2: she did, and the fact that she thinks I'm racist

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Speaker 2: is a concern. And as I said, it was asked

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Speaker 2: to be withdrawn. Joe.

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Speaker 1: Should she apologize, Oh, look, she can.

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Speaker 2: The minister can go and continue to do as she wishes. Katie,

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Speaker 2: I just think the bigger picture is here. We have

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Speaker 2: fifty eight percent of kids in the territory but a

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Speaker 2: failing literacy and numeracy, and eighty five percent of those

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Speaker 2: children are Indigenous. What we need to do is get

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Speaker 2: the the equity in education right across the territory and

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Speaker 2: especially add into those remote communities.

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Speaker 1: Well, Joe Hearsey, the Member for Catherine, very quickly before

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Speaker 1: I let you go this morning. Word on the street

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Speaker 1: is there's going to be a cabinet reshuffle this morning.

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Speaker 1: You and I and Chancey Paike and Georgie Dickerson discussed

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Speaker 1: this on Friday. Throughout the week that was what's your tip, Joe,

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Speaker 1: do you think there's going to be a cabinet reshuffles

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Speaker 1: out who's in?

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Speaker 2: Katie? I just want them to get on with the

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Speaker 2: job of governing the territory and put territorians first. We

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Speaker 2: have the worst crime that we've ever seen across the territory.

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Speaker 2: So I just want them to get on and do

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Speaker 2: their job. And you know, if that means we're having

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Speaker 2: a reshuffle, we'll get on with it. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we've been talking about this and hearing about this for

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Speaker 2: a long time. I'm pretty sure territorians just want them

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Speaker 2: to get out there and do their job. Listened to

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Speaker 2: territoriums yep, I reckon.

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Speaker 1: You're right well, Joe Hersey, thanks so much for your

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Speaker 1: time this morning. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you,