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Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families Podcast. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. Two different topics today, we're going to kind

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Speaker 1: of jump from one thing to another. First off, court

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Speaker 1: documents say that Meta, the owner of Facebook and Instagram,

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Speaker 1: has attempted to hide a study that showed that when

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Speaker 1: people delete their Facebook account they become less depressed. They've

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Speaker 1: tried to hide it. More on that in just Sect Plus,

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Speaker 1: our most provocative and most feedback focused podcast of the year.

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Speaker 1: It happened around about ten days ago and we're going

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Speaker 1: to review some of the feedback that's come through and

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Speaker 1: talk about why so many people were up in arms

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Speaker 1: and also why so many people loved it and want

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Speaker 1: more Today. It's a bit of this and a bit

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Speaker 1: of that, but it's intriguing and it will make your

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Speaker 1: family happier. It's the Happy Families Podcast. More right after this. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get

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Speaker 1: real parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most

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Speaker 1: downloaded parenting podcast where Justin and Kylie Calson. We're the

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Speaker 1: parents of six kids and Kylie, we're feeling can I

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Speaker 1: say the word refreshed? Are feeling invigorated after a week

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Speaker 1: riding your bicycle through the rain in New Zealand. We're

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Speaker 1: not going to talk about that today. That's coming up

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Speaker 1: on Friday, with a little bit of tomorrow. But I

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Speaker 1: love that you just laughed. This is a podcast. You

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Speaker 1: have to talk. You can't just laugh and look at

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Speaker 1: me with those eyes. We need to have some communication.

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Speaker 2: I think Mihami's are feeling it.

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Speaker 1: I think everything, the kids and their tushes are feeling it. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about more about that on Friday, Kylie. There

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Speaker 1: are two big topics today. First off, we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about Facebook Meta. I've made an enemy of them.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure I don't know how I still have an

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Speaker 1: account with them because of the things that I say.

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Speaker 1: But from the very outset, this is a company that

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Speaker 1: has never, ever, ever, ever, ever had the interests of

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Speaker 1: its users at hard. It's always been about growing its database,

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Speaker 1: growing its members, growing its users, and then growing it

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Speaker 1: cash flows. And it has become one of the most

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Speaker 1: profitable organizations on the planet, one of the wealthiest organizations

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Speaker 1: on the planet. Meta ahead of the December ten social

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Speaker 1: media minimum age legislation has been in the news again,

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Speaker 1: and I want to read this to you This comes

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Speaker 1: from a news dot com article that was published by

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Speaker 1: Alex Blair, who says this bombshell. Details from a US

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Speaker 1: court case concerning Meta, the parent company to Facebook and Instagram,

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Speaker 1: have revealed the tech giant halted internal studies examining Facebook's

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Speaker 1: impact on mental health, even after uncovering causal evidence that

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Speaker 1: its platforms harmed users. So basically, there was a court

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Speaker 1: case that came up recently in the United States. Facebook

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Speaker 1: partnered with Nielsen, the research company, and looked at the

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Speaker 1: effects of temporarily deactivating Facebook. And what they discovered was

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Speaker 1: that when people deactivated Facebook, they got happier, their depression disappeared,

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Speaker 1: they ended up in a better place. Internal reports say,

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Speaker 1: and this is a direct quote, people who stopped using

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Speaker 1: Facebook for a week reported lower feelings of depression, anxiety, loneliness,

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Speaker 1: and social comparison. So as these findings started to come through,

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Speaker 1: the people at Medicaid, Oh, stop the study. We don't

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Speaker 1: need this study. This is not a helpful study. It's

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Speaker 1: not important. Let's pretend it never happened.

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Speaker 2: I really like to think that there is a lot

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Speaker 2: of good humanity.

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Speaker 1: You're the kind of person who looks for good in

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Speaker 1: the world. You really believe that people are going.

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Speaker 2: Yeh stories like that, and it just makes your question everything.

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Speaker 1: It's despicable, It's absolutely deplorable. These people do not care

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Speaker 1: about our kids. They do not care about our well being.

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Speaker 1: They care about one thing and one thing only. It's

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Speaker 1: shareholder value. And when they're making an excess of twenty

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Speaker 1: billion dollars per quarter, and you look at the amount

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Speaker 1: of money that they're spending on their AI, I mean

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Speaker 1: they literally just hired some people. They spent more than

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Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars on a single staff member on

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Speaker 1: a four year contract because that person is so integral

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Speaker 1: to their AI program. They have that much money, And

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Speaker 1: would you think that they're using AI to help our

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Speaker 1: kids do better?

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: So, Jonathan Hydt, who wrote The Anxious Generation and who's

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Speaker 1: one of the most vocal people and one of the

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Speaker 1: most relevant people in the world on this topic right now,

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Speaker 1: has been making a lot of noise about how Meta

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Speaker 1: is working really hard on recognizing that a lot of

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Speaker 1: young people are feeling lonely today, and so what they're

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Speaker 1: working really hard on developing our synthetic AI, silicon based

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Speaker 1: chatbots so that if your child's feeling lonely they'll have

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Speaker 1: someone to talk to online. I mean, it's not a

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Speaker 1: real person, it's a chatbot. They're not doing this for

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Speaker 1: your kids, folks, They're not doing it to make your

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Speaker 1: kids happier. These people are so mendacious. They're so disgracefully

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Speaker 1: dishonest when it comes to what really matters, and it's

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Speaker 1: not your child's well being. When they're actually going to

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Speaker 1: cover up a study because it's showing that their pla

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Speaker 1: forms are literally genuinely harming kids. So I wanted to

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Speaker 1: raise that ahead of the December ten band two days

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Speaker 1: to go until the ban is implemented. The Social Medium

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Speaker 1: in Aged legislation, which includes all of the meta platforms

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Speaker 1: with the exception of WhatsApp. This is a good news story.

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Speaker 1: We've just got to hope and pray that the government's

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Speaker 1: intervention and the legislation works and that the platforms do

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Speaker 1: what they're supposed to be doing. I mean, my biggest

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Speaker 1: gripe about this is forty nine and a half million dollars.

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Speaker 1: If they're shown to be ignoring what the legislation requires,

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Speaker 1: it's a slap on the wrist. If you're inning twenty

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Speaker 1: two billion dollars last quarter in profit and someone says, well,

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Speaker 1: we need fifty million as a fine, like getting a

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Speaker 1: twenty cent parking fee. So I've still got some real

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Speaker 1: concerns around it. I love that we're doing it first

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Speaker 1: steps matter where, the first people in the world to

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Speaker 1: be doing it. But Kylie, we just meta canceled the

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Speaker 1: work and internally claimed that the negative outcomes were skewed

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Speaker 1: by the existing media narrative surrounding the platform. A just

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Speaker 1: beggars belief. We will link to this article and you

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Speaker 1: can research it more in the show notes. But that's

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Speaker 1: what I wanted to kick it off with today. I

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Speaker 1: know it's sort of a bad news story. Hey, good news,

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Speaker 1: good news. Ask me how I'm going with my social media.

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Speaker 2: How are you going with your social media?

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Speaker 1: You know how I'm going with it, don't you? Because

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Speaker 1: I deleted it. Well, I can't delete it because we've

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Speaker 1: got our Facebook page for the Happy Families business and

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Speaker 1: our Instagram page. But I no longer know what my

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Speaker 1: password is. I've had my assistant change on my password

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Speaker 1: put it into our password protection vault, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to get into it. So I can't use Messenger,

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Speaker 1: and I can't use Facebook and I can't use Instagram

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Speaker 1: and I'm so happy, Like this is the thing, Kylie.

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Speaker 1: With this research, the research is looking not at teenagers,

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Speaker 1: it's looking at all users. But we know from research

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Speaker 1: that our adolescens, especially our young early adolescence, are more

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Speaker 1: affected by these platforms than any other age group, especial

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Speaker 1: our young girls.

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Speaker 2: They're still very dependent, you know, they can't get in

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Speaker 2: the car and drive off to their friend's house. They're

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Speaker 2: really dependent on mum and dad or public transport or

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Speaker 2: so the idea that social media fills a gap is

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Speaker 2: real for them as opposed to an adult who says,

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Speaker 2: let's go out for lunch and you get in the

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Speaker 2: car and you drive yourself there or you get picked

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Speaker 2: up or whatever. So I can see how just from

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Speaker 2: that perspective it impacts our kids so much more.

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Speaker 1: But we've got the brain development, the social development, the

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Speaker 1: emotional development. There are so many things going on internally anyway.

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Speaker 1: I know that there are some people who a out

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Speaker 1: there who are quite unquoite experts who are not happy

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Speaker 1: about the band, don't think it's going to work, and

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Speaker 1: think that it's a fruitless exercise that's just going to

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Speaker 1: cost a lot of money and is creating a media hullabaloo.

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Speaker 1: Whether it moves to needle point one or ten point one,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't matter to me. The fact is we've started.

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Speaker 1: No legislation is perfect when it begins, but we're going

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Speaker 1: to get some information as a result of this, and

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Speaker 1: that allows us to make another step. It's about progress.

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Speaker 1: To me, it's not about perfection. It's about progress, and

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Speaker 1: I'm excited.

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Speaker 2: I know that you've spoken about the fact that you're

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Speaker 2: really hoping that the platforms will do what they say

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Speaker 2: they're going to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I don't trust them at all, and that's.

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Speaker 2: Going to kind of move the needle a lot. I

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Speaker 2: actually think it starts so much more simpler, and I

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Speaker 2: think it really comes down to individual families. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 2: if we band together, like we build the village that

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Speaker 2: our kids are in righting, we're the center of it.

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Speaker 1: The thing is, though parents aren't. I was just having

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Speaker 1: a chat with Charlie Brown, the developer of the GME phone,

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Speaker 1: which is designed to keep kids away from stuff online

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Speaker 1: not supposed to be on, and we're agonizing at the

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Speaker 1: moment over whether or not we're going to hand over

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Speaker 1: the most locked down phone ever in history to our

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Speaker 1: about to be twelve year old because she's really starting

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Speaker 1: to develop socially and she wants to be on the

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Speaker 1: phone to her friends, and she's always taking your phone.

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Speaker 1: I just won't allow her to have mine, but you're

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Speaker 1: a big softy and you keep on giving her yours.

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Speaker 1: And we're agonizing over this, and he just said, I

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Speaker 1: wish more parents spend as much time agonizing over things

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Speaker 1: as you guys are, because this is this is such

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Speaker 1: a big, big, big, big deal. But with your phone,

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Speaker 1: you're getting text messages from our daughter's friends at ten

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Speaker 1: and ten thirty at night as they're trying to contact her.

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Speaker 1: And you say it, in an ideal world, wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: great if parents did, But not enough parents do, whether

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Speaker 1: it's texting at ten thirty or whether it's social media.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, I just wanted to share that study. This

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Speaker 1: has gone on a lot longer than it was supposed to.

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Speaker 1: This will turn into an entire podcast on its own.

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Speaker 1: So after the break, the most feedback we've ever had

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Speaker 1: on a podcast, we're going to share some of that

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Speaker 1: and why it matters so much. Stay with us. That's

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Speaker 1: next on The Happy Family's podcasts. This is the Happy

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Speaker 1: Family's podcast where you get real parenting solutions every single day, Kylie.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, about ten days ago, we

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Speaker 1: had one of our most listened to podcasts, and certainly

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Speaker 1: a podcast that has resulted in more feedback than almost

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Speaker 1: any podcast we've in fact, probably more feedback than any

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Speaker 1: podcast we've ever dropped. It was with the author of

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Speaker 1: a book called Searching for Normal. His name is doctor

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Speaker 1: Sammy to Mimy. Heaps of emails saying, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: we need more. In fact, one person, Liz emailed and

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Speaker 1: said more Sammy to Mimmy, please, Dear Happy Families. Sammy

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Speaker 1: to Mimy was fantastic. Can you get him on for

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Speaker 1: a longer session? Specifically, can you get him on to

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Speaker 1: talk about boys and diagnosis of ADHD. There were a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of other emails that came through that were

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Speaker 1: very much along those same lines, just begging for more

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Speaker 1: and saying how helpful it was and how reassuring it

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Speaker 1: was and how affirming it was. And then there were

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Speaker 1: other emails that came through like this one. This one

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Speaker 1: came through from someone that will remain anonymous, who said, Hi,

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Speaker 1: Justin and team well, it's been a morning another battle

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Speaker 1: with my eight year old refusing to go to school.

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Speaker 1: I'm exhausted. We've been seeing a psych collegist all year.

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Speaker 1: We're dealing with never ending sleep problems, emotional regulation issues

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Speaker 1: at home, where she gets quite violent when she's angry.

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Speaker 1: The family is often in chaos because of her meltdowns,

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Speaker 1: even though she has wonderful friends and is a very

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Speaker 1: liked member of her school community. We're often hearing about

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Speaker 1: relationship problems and playground politics. She definitely appears to be

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Speaker 1: masking a lot at school and then letting it all

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Speaker 1: out at home. There are many different causes of anxiety

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Speaker 1: as well that come and go. I've felt for years

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Speaker 1: that something's not quite right. We finally sought to have

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Speaker 1: her screen and the psychologist has now recommended that we

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Speaker 1: complete an ADHD assessment. I'm exhausted. And while I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to implement good parenting strategies like many that you promote,

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Speaker 1: which are essential and the best, some days I still

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Speaker 1: just don't know what to do. It feels like nothing

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Speaker 1: is working, and again, I'm just exhausted. I listen to

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Speaker 1: your podcast often and really value your insight, your opinions

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Speaker 1: and expertise. Your family values really resonate with mine. I

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Speaker 1: just listen to your podcast episodehere we interview doctor Sammy

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Speaker 1: to Mimi, I'm confused, I feel grumpy and horn You're

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Speaker 1: right that his views are a tad provocative. I guess

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Speaker 1: I just feel compelled to add to the conversation. I

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Speaker 1: get what he's talking about, no doubt us humans always

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Speaker 1: take things a bit too far, and we really shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be trying to seek normal as it doesn't exist. I

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Speaker 1: suppose labels can also be damaging when stigma is attached. However,

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Speaker 1: with all the struggles we've been dealing with over the

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Speaker 1: past few years, and when my child just doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to be thriving and seems to be deeply struggling and

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Speaker 1: my husband and I just don't know what to do anymore,

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Speaker 1: is a diagnosis of some kind of behavior. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of really that bad when it could provide meaning and understanding,

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Speaker 1: When it could provide answers and streamline our support and

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Speaker 1: strategies so that our child can learn to thrive and

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Speaker 1: find their way, even if it's different from the majority.

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Speaker 1: And I just love that email so very much. You're

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Speaker 1: looking at me with sad eyes.

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Speaker 2: When we talked about this a few weeks ago on

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Speaker 2: the podcast, I just I really kind of wanted to

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Speaker 2: emphasize the importance of listening to ours and really kind

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Speaker 2: of I guess trusting our guard. I know that when

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Speaker 2: our youngest came along, it wasn't too far into her

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Speaker 2: development that I started to recognize and notice that there

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Speaker 2: was some very distinct differences to her and the way

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Speaker 2: she interpreted interactions information, the way she reacted to being

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Speaker 2: with other people. And I'm not interested in a label,

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Speaker 2: but I am ridiculously aware that I have to do

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Speaker 2: things differently with her. I have to manage myself differently

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Speaker 2: when I'm with her, I have to communicate differently with her.

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Speaker 2: And that has been something that I want to use

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Speaker 2: the word innate, but it's not so much innate. It

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Speaker 2: was just a knowing that you have an experience with her.

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Speaker 2: She blows up. It's like I've treated all of my

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Speaker 2: children like this. Why is it not working with this child?

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Speaker 2: Why is she having such a big response? And so

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Speaker 2: in that moment, going Okay, I'm going to need to

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Speaker 2: try something different, and I'm hearing her She's exhausted, I've

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Speaker 2: been there, I've lived that, and in some regards, I'm

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Speaker 2: living that feeling of just emptiness because there is never

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Speaker 2: enough of me to go around. But I really hope

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Speaker 2: that as parents take in the information that's been given them,

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Speaker 2: that they don't see it as the be all of everything.

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Speaker 2: It's the only answer for them to cope with the

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Speaker 2: things that they're coping with. I want them to know

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Speaker 2: that they can take from Sammy what feels right for

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Speaker 2: them in the moment and continue along their journey of

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Speaker 2: discovery of what's going to work for their family, because

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Speaker 2: it's devastating. Yeah, when we're in these hard places and

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Speaker 2: we hear someone who's so counter to everything that everybody

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Speaker 2: else is saying, I think it's important for us to

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Speaker 2: be curious, but to feel hopeless. That's not a place

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Speaker 2: that I would ever want anybody to be left feeling

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Speaker 2: as a result of the things that we are striving

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Speaker 2: to share.

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Speaker 1: So we're almost out of time. I was going to

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Speaker 1: plan an audio message that came through from Happy Families

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au, the super simple system there that

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Speaker 1: Jess used, and she basically said she felt like doctors

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Speaker 1: Mimi was being a bit dismissive that life is complicated

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Speaker 1: and this is just how it is for some people,

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Speaker 1: like these things really are happening, and it ties in

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Speaker 1: with what we've just talked about, what you've just shared

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Speaker 1: my response to both of the negative mines because I

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Speaker 1: certainly align with what doctor Timmy is highlighting, because he's

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Speaker 1: very much leaning on what the research shows. What's happened,

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Speaker 1: is that a cultural narrative that's developed. We've created an

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Speaker 1: entire language around everything that's going on from a mental

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Speaker 1: health slash mental illness point of view. And as we've

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Speaker 1: created that language and we've culturally moved in that direction,

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Speaker 1: whether it's about trauma or neurodivergence, or whether it's about

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Speaker 1: anxiety and depression or any of the other things that

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Speaker 1: are so popular because there's comfort, as we saw in

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Speaker 1: that anonymous email, there's comfort in knowing, oh, hang on,

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Speaker 1: there is a name for this and there is an

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Speaker 1: explanation for it that that feels compassionate and it feels good.

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Speaker 1: I'm certainly not going to be dismissive in the way

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Speaker 1: that Jess was worried about in her voice note. But

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Speaker 1: what I do want to emphasize very very clearly is

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Speaker 1: that when we change our language, we change our experience.

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Speaker 1: And yes, some children developed differently, there's no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: Some adults have developed differently. We are all different, and

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Speaker 1: he said that in his interview with me. We're all

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Speaker 1: neurodiverse in a multiplicity of But what we are doing

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Speaker 1: now is we are in so many ways limiting and

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Speaker 1: living into things that we don't need to. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't listened to the podcast episode, it's worth going back

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Speaker 1: and listening to it. In fact, even if you have,

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Speaker 1: it's worth the second listen. I've listened to it a

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Speaker 1: couple of times. He says some things that are really jarring.

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Speaker 1: He also says some things that give you goosebumps because

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Speaker 1: they're so brilliant. And I think, ultimately, what as you said, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: we're in charge of our families. We're in charge of

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Speaker 1: our kids. But to the degree that we can help

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Speaker 1: our children, if our children are struggling, I'm always going

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Speaker 1: to say, let's talk about the environment first. Like the

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Speaker 1: environments that we're putting our kids into, they're not normal,

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Speaker 1: they're not natural, they're not what humans have been developed

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Speaker 1: to be in. And I think that that's our biggest

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Speaker 1: challenge screens, lack of sleep, diet, and the school environments particularly,

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Speaker 1: and the structured activities that our kids are experiencing, the

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Speaker 1: lack of sociality, the lack of adult role models. All

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Speaker 1: these things have such a huge impact on the way

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Speaker 1: they develop. And yet we've got a couple of kids

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Speaker 1: where we look at them like you are developing differently,

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Speaker 1: and I've talked to parents every day who are going

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Speaker 1: through that. So we really wanted to just sort of

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Speaker 1: there is no neat tidy. We've wrapped this up in

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Speaker 1: a package with a bow solution here, but we wanted

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge the enormous amount of feedback. We wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk specifically about those of you who have been quite

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Speaker 1: eloquent in the way that you've responded, and we definitely

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Speaker 1: want to flag this podcast episode. We're going to link

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Speaker 1: to it in the show notes. If you haven't heard it,

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Speaker 1: it's worth a listen. It's so important that we get

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Speaker 1: our head around this stuff and understand what is going

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Speaker 1: on from a mental health mental illness perspective in our

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Speaker 1: culture and community. All Right, our time is up. We've

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Speaker 1: talked way too long, Kylie. This was going to be

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Speaker 1: a really quick one didn't end up that way, but

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Speaker 1: I think it was an important conversation both about what

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Speaker 1: social media does to our kids and about what normality is.

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Speaker 1: And I'm glad we've got to do this. Tomorrow we're

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Speaker 1: back with a discussion about the psychology of Christmas. I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited about that one, and a whole lot more

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Speaker 1: about Christmas as we inch closer to the big day.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rollin from

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides research, admin and other support

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Speaker 1: and for more information about making your family happier, you

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Speaker 1: will find it at happy families dot com dot a

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Speaker 1: u