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Speaker 1: My name is Tatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations

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Speaker 1: woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young

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Speaker 1: Ganya Niana, Kaka yah Ya, bin Ahaka Nian our gay

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Speaker 1: In Nimbina, yakarum Jar, Dominyamka, Domaga, Ithawakawaman, damon Imlan Bimba

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Speaker 1: bang Gadabomba in and now in wakah Ghana on yak

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Speaker 1: rum Jar water Nadaa. Hello, beautiful friends, we gather on

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Speaker 1: the lands of the Aboriginal people. We thank, acknowledge and

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Speaker 1: respect the Abiginal people's land that we're gathering on today.

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Speaker 1: Take pleasure in all the land and respect all that

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Speaker 1: you see. She's on the Money podcast acknowledges culture, country,

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Speaker 1: community and connections, bringing you the tools, knowledge and resources

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Speaker 1: for you to thrive.

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Speaker 2: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.

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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast

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Speaker 3: that helps you build your career, grow your income, and

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Speaker 3: actually get excited for Monday mornings. Our guest today has

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Speaker 3: a serious talent for spotting opportunities most people would probably

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Speaker 3: be too scared to chase, and then actually making them happen.

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Speaker 3: She's gone from a very safe corporate job to launching

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Speaker 3: the dating app Bumble here in Australia to co founding Sunroom,

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Speaker 3: a platform changing the way women and non binary creators

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Speaker 3: make money. Along the way, she's raised millions, built brands

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Speaker 3: that explode in the press, and crafted a career on

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Speaker 3: her own terms. I'm your host, Victoria Devine, and here's

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Speaker 3: why I'm so excited about this chat. Michelle Battersby is

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Speaker 3: the kind of person who shows you how to take

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Speaker 3: bold moves and turn them into a career that just

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Speaker 3: keeps getting better.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Michelle, or should I.

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Speaker 3: Say welcome to the show because you kind of did

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Speaker 3: a cameo while I was on Matt Leaf.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was thinking I have done this, but I've

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Speaker 2: never done.

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Speaker 5: This with you.

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Speaker 2: No, no, you got to take the wheel, and now

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Speaker 2: I've got the wheel back and now I get to

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Speaker 2: interview you, which is.

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Speaker 3: Very, very fun. I'm genuinely so excited about this. You

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Speaker 3: live in La so this I feel like has been

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Speaker 3: a long time coming, and a lot of like, what's

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Speaker 3: your calendar look like?

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Speaker 2: What's my calendar look like? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Maybe not this trip, maybe next trip? Okay, what about

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Speaker 3: next trip? Like, yeah, we finally face to face.

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Speaker 2: I know, feel surreal.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited, like and I just know that my

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Speaker 3: community is going to be like, this episode's going to

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Speaker 3: be lit. So Michelle, when we have a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a look at your CV, I would say it

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Speaker 3: is nothing short of inspiring, which is exactly why in

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Speaker 3: the show I'm going to be taking the opportunity to

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Speaker 3: kind of put you in the hot seat and answer

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Speaker 3: the career questions that our community is sending us consistently,

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Speaker 3: things like how do you know when it's time to

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Speaker 3: change careers? And how do you actually be successful in

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Speaker 3: the tech space as women? What does this look like?

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Speaker 3: But first you've been working on I would say something

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Speaker 3: massive behind the scenes, and it's taken like now more

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Speaker 3: than a year, tell me about it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it has taken a very long time. So we

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Speaker 5: got some room acquired, so it's been.

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Speaker 2: Sold as wheeling and dealing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, as we record this, it's actually being announced tonight.

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Speaker 5: So it's being announced tomorrow morning in the US. The

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Speaker 5: company that we sold to is a company called fan Fix,

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Speaker 5: And it was such a journey to get here, Like

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Speaker 5: an acquisition process is just wild, very different to a

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Speaker 5: fundraising process I've found, and it had so many ups

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Speaker 5: and downs. So like, we actually first spoke to this

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Speaker 5: company about a year ago, but we started moving through

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Speaker 5: the process with another competitor in our space, and it

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Speaker 5: was basically, do you know what.

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Speaker 2: You need is to to play them off against each other.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, it ended up basically being close to a done

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Speaker 5: deal back in February. And then as like, I think

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Speaker 5: anyone who sold a company will probably have a similar

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Speaker 5: experience where you can get really close maybe one two,

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: However many times people.

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Speaker 3: Needs a signature and then for some reason that part

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Speaker 3: doesn't go ahead.

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Speaker 5: Well, what happened was this company actually ran into some

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Speaker 5: very public legal struggles that just made them it would

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Speaker 5: have been an unethical choice. So we had to completely

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Speaker 5: pull back and go back to the drawing board. And

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Speaker 5: it felt like such a whiplash and such as lap

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Speaker 5: in the face at the time, but it actually ended

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Speaker 5: up being the biggest blessing because we had gone through

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Speaker 5: the process enough to see how you would structure the

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Speaker 5: deal and how you would de risk it, and so

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Speaker 5: we could kind of take a second swing with all

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Speaker 5: these other people and you're.

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Speaker 3: Like, this is now not my first rodeo, and I

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Speaker 3: know what to ask and what to say and how

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Speaker 3: to structure it and get our way.

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, how exciting.

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Speaker 3: Let's backtrack a little bit because for those of you

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Speaker 3: who have haven't heard of Sunroom, it is a brand

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Speaker 3: and a platform that lives and breathes its values. As

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Speaker 3: you can hear, you literally pulled a deal because you're like, dah,

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Speaker 3: that's unethical. And I feel like a lot of people

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Speaker 3: when they're at the point of sale, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that doesn't matter so much, like let's just get it done.

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Speaker 2: With, Like I've overlooked it.

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Speaker 3: There's money on a stable exactly and Sunroom and you

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Speaker 3: have obviously this mission and you're really passionate about I

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Speaker 3: guess sharing real creators and paying them properly and sharing

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Speaker 3: creator wins. So I guess you were achieving what you

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Speaker 3: set out to do. You've like done what people probably

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Speaker 3: thought is not possible at this point. Why did you

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Speaker 3: feel like right now you were like, Okay, well, obviously

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Speaker 3: you've been talking about this for twelve months. I think

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Speaker 3: if someone approached me and said, do you want to

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Speaker 3: sell your company, I'll be like no, I love my company,

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Speaker 3: like that's not on the cards, Like why did you

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Speaker 3: feel like now was a good time to sell?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So, my co founder Lucy and I started Sunroom

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Speaker 5: with the intent to make women non binary creators as

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Speaker 5: much money as possible on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: And about a.

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Speaker 5: Year ago we were approached by someone in our space

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Speaker 5: to merge. And so it's not like we've been sitting

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Speaker 5: down talking about M and A and talking about selling

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Speaker 5: our company. It was I guess, you know the example

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Speaker 5: that you gave, like someone came to us, but it

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Speaker 5: did get us thinking, okay, interesting, you know, don't know

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Speaker 5: if we necessarily want to merge with this company, but

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Speaker 5: maybe we could sell our company and could we actually

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Speaker 5: help all the women A non binary creators we've attracted

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Speaker 5: make more money somewhere else. And so we started looking

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Speaker 5: at our competitors, but we also started looking at social networks,

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Speaker 5: talent agencies, even porn companies, like different ways our product

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Speaker 5: might be appealing to bigger players.

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Speaker 2: And we asked ourselves.

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Speaker 5: Questions, you know, like do they have a more extensive

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Speaker 5: feature set than us, do they have more resources, do

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Speaker 5: they have a bigger team, do they have better brand

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Speaker 5: awareness and fan fix? The company that we've ended up

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Speaker 5: selling to They ticked every one of those boxes. They

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Speaker 5: had a similar ethos to us in terms of how

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Speaker 5: they thought about creators and supporting creators.

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Speaker 2: They built out a product they just would always beat us.

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Speaker 3: It was like, you know, that's what you want, Like

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Speaker 3: in this particular situation.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like that, if you can't beat them,

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Speaker 2: join them, and we just sell to them. Exactly.

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Speaker 5: It just felt like, oh, if we could land with them,

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Speaker 5: this truly would be an amazing outcome for our creators.

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Speaker 5: And as we worked through the process, there were many

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Speaker 5: moving parts and many things to think about. Like you've

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Speaker 5: got your investors and you're trying to think about what

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Speaker 5: you know you can return to them. You are kind

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Speaker 5: of thinking about yourself, like I've made financial sacrifices to

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Speaker 5: start a business.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent, and you've spoken very openly about, you know,

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Speaker 3: not earning much and taking massive pay cuts to like

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Speaker 3: invest literally everything financially and otherwise into Sunroom.

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Speaker 2: So like these are big decisions.

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Speaker 3: They're not like, oh should we sell, Oh yeah, it's monday.

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Speaker 2: Let's go. Yeah, and also your staff.

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Speaker 5: But then I think where we were in this unique

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Speaker 5: position because we've got a consumer product and our consumer.

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Speaker 5: Our product is literally helping women make money, and so

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Speaker 5: a lot of our users they're paying their rent through

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Speaker 5: their sunroom earnings, they're paying their car insurance, maybe they're

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Speaker 5: buying homes, maybe they're.

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Speaker 2: Paying for their college tuition.

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Speaker 5: So the decision of who to sell to, like it

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Speaker 5: was mostly weighing on what would be the best outcome

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Speaker 5: for our creators. And it feels so good to be

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Speaker 5: at this point now and to have actually officially like

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Speaker 5: done this deal and to have got them an outcome

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Speaker 5: that actually has the potential to make them way more money.

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Speaker 5: Like once this finally goes everything is kind of transitioned

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Speaker 5: over officially tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: I'm so curious to see the data and to see our.

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Speaker 5: Creators numbers doubled on this platform because they have that

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Speaker 5: much more traffic than us, that much more brand orness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like I truly hand on heart.

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Speaker 5: I would have found it very hard to I've been

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Speaker 5: doing calls with our creators for the past week, like

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Speaker 5: running a very sensitive comms process to bring them in

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Speaker 5: on this before, so it's not a surprise, and I

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Speaker 5: would have found those calls very difficult to have if

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Speaker 5: I couldn't truly basically, yeah, if I couldn't truly say

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Speaker 5: here's all the ways, like this product can actually help

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Speaker 5: you in ways that we couldn't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like you've gone from being small to a medium

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Speaker 3: and now like they actually have the platform of a

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Speaker 3: large business, but the care and respect and the morals

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Speaker 3: of a small business still, Like that's a deal exactly.

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Speaker 5: And like Lucy and I are advising for them for

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Speaker 5: the next year, so we're still there to care for

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Speaker 5: our creators, can be in touch with them, We'll still

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Speaker 5: be behind the scenes, and it's just it's weird.

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Speaker 2: It's a very surreal feeling. But yeah, I feel very

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Speaker 2: happy about it.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like those were probably your biggest priorities

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Speaker 3: when talking about this sale. Were there any other priorities

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Speaker 3: that might come as a surprise that you were like,

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Speaker 3: hold on, I didn't realize I cared so much about this.

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Speaker 3: This now has to be part of the deal.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good question.

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Speaker 5: I think as we went through the process, because we

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Speaker 5: had options, like we had different competitors in our space

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Speaker 5: that were interested in acquiring us. We also went through

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Speaker 5: the process for quite an extensive period with a really

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Speaker 5: big social network and we also were talking to quite

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Speaker 5: a big porn site as well for months, and I think, what.

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Speaker 2: Sort of maje your emails look really good?

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Speaker 5: I think what was a really interesting learning in that

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Speaker 5: is that there are so many different ways you can

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Speaker 5: package your business up and tell the story to appeal

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Speaker 5: to different people, and just a social network we were

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Speaker 5: speaking to were really interested in our technology, in our

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Speaker 5: anti screenshot tech and our team, So the pathway we

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Speaker 5: were going down with them was an aquahier which wouldn't

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Speaker 5: have been as good for our creators at the end

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Speaker 5: of the day, because they were more interested in our

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Speaker 5: team and tech and how we could maybe be a

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Speaker 5: project team within their business and work on monetization for them.

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Speaker 5: And then you've got the porn side of things, which

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Speaker 5: maybe would have appealed to a percentage of our creator.

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Speaker 2: It is not what your creators do as a whole.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that's you know, as someone who's

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Speaker 3: watched Sunroom grow and like followed it like a cult member,

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Speaker 3: I know that, yes, there are people who create that

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Speaker 3: content on your platform, and you champion them as much

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Speaker 3: as everybody else. But there's also just so many women

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Speaker 3: just creating content for women that you're like, hold on,

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Speaker 3: would that turn them off?

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Speaker 2: Then? Exactly?

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Speaker 3: So I feel like that makes sense to me. But

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Speaker 3: that's as somebody who's been following it going. I actually

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Speaker 3: really truly feel like I understand what types of creators

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Speaker 3: you have on this app. And it's not you know,

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Speaker 3: your OnlyFans content creator. You actually have just people creating good,

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Speaker 3: face to face content and making a killing at the

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Speaker 3: same time, and that's really cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I guess it's like we learnt our creators really

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Speaker 5: were at the forefront of everything that we were doing,

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Speaker 5: and we made this decision for them. And I think

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Speaker 5: as I've taken all these calls over the past week

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Speaker 5: or so, it's been amazing to hear their reaction to

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Speaker 5: it and that they see the opportunity, that they're excited

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Speaker 5: about it, that they're proud of kind of where we're at,

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Speaker 5: and it feels like we made the right choice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like you've been so transparent about like

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Speaker 3: your career journey and what that's meant, and you are

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Speaker 3: such a career person, but then recently you became a mum,

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Speaker 3: so you have now a sixteen month old.

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Speaker 2: A fifteen month fifteen as of recording. That's crazy.

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Speaker 3: That is crazy, And I feel like we've gone through

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Speaker 3: this like motherhood journey together on the other side of

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Speaker 3: the world. Like I've been watching you and you've been

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Speaker 3: watching me, and we've been like, yep, same queen. We

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Speaker 3: both have these little buff head boys and it's like

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Speaker 3: the best thing ever. Yeah, but I feel like that

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Speaker 3: really changes the way you manage a business and it

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Speaker 3: changes your priorities. And before your month that's terrifying, Like

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Speaker 3: both you and I were like what have we done?

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Speaker 3: Like we wanted this, but also did we want this?

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Speaker 2: Like is this?

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Speaker 4: You know? Is this it?

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Speaker 3: And I think both of us can agree it's the

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Speaker 3: best thing ever, Like this is the best part of

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Speaker 3: my entire life. But like, now you've sold your business,

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Speaker 3: what are you going to miss the most? Because I

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Speaker 3: feel like that is such a defight it for me,

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Speaker 3: I find being a business owner. Also I'm a mum,

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Speaker 3: but like primarily like on socials and the content I

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Speaker 3: create and I leave and I breathe business and we're

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Speaker 3: what are you going to miss the most?

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Speaker 2: I think what else? I'm not going to miss it?

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Speaker 2: Initially because I'm doing this advising for a year.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I will be in on the goss, but

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Speaker 5: I just loved watching a complete unknown person discover our

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Speaker 5: product and make bank Like that was just the most

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Speaker 5: rewarding feeling.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's interesting because the little wins.

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Speaker 5: I actually I actually ended up feeling a bit resentful

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Speaker 5: of my of my company in periods because I felt

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Speaker 5: like I was just surviving off little wins over and

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Speaker 5: over and over, and I was like, God, can I

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Speaker 5: just get a big win?

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Speaker 2: I can't just live off crumbs.

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Speaker 5: Yes, But now that I'm sitting here, I actually think

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Speaker 5: I will miss those small wins and just being surprised

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Speaker 5: by someone's potential on the platform. So I'll still get

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Speaker 5: to hear about that for a year, but then I

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Speaker 5: think I will miss it. But I yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 5: I don't feel this huge identity shift in this moment

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Speaker 5: because I've never I think my personal brand and career.

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Speaker 5: I've existed in big organizations and in my own organization,

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Speaker 5: so I kind of have like viewed myself as quite fluid.

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Speaker 5: So I don't I don't feel a great sense of

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Speaker 5: emotion over not being a founder anymore.

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Speaker 3: Like what I mean, You're still a founder. You're a

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Speaker 3: founder who's sold me. Yeah, is that like a step up.

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Speaker 2: Like a found No? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's boot.

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Speaker 3: That's definitely going in the instagram byo. Talk to me

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Speaker 3: about this though, because I feel like when I learned

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Speaker 3: that you were selling sun Room.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, that's so sick. And then

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Speaker 2: I was like, what's she going to do?

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Speaker 3: Like I feel like, oh God, motivationally, you and I

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Speaker 3: are on the same page, and like I just need

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Speaker 3: a lot to do, like and whatever I do, I

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Speaker 3: want to throw myself into and I go, I see

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Speaker 3: a lot of that in you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what does the next chapter look like? Where are

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Speaker 2: you going? What are you doing? Because I already know

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Speaker 2: that you're not going to go I've retired. I don't

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Speaker 2: do anything now. I'm just going to be a mom.

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Speaker 2: That's not you.

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Speaker 5: That was the most painful part of how long this

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Speaker 5: process took for me. It was knowing this is going

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Speaker 5: to happen, but I can't wnk about it. I can't

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Speaker 5: publicly begin to explore other things. I need to sit

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Speaker 5: in complete silence and wait.

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Speaker 2: That would kill me. Oh my god. I was born

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Speaker 2: to yap, so that just wouldn't work for me. And

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Speaker 2: I'm so impatient.

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Speaker 5: This has been the hardest year for me mentally to

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Speaker 5: trust that it was going to come to this moment

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Speaker 5: and it was going to work out and in a

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Speaker 5: monkst selling my company. Like back in February when that

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Speaker 5: first deal fell through, that was the same month I

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Speaker 5: found out I was pregnant. Oh my god, So I've

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Speaker 5: got an eight month old, I'm pregnant and I'm selling

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Speaker 5: my company and now I'm not do you know what,

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Speaker 5: go hard or go home?

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Speaker 2: And now I'm not selling my company, so like what

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Speaker 2: what do I do?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 2: Like, it was really quite scary, Like I cried. I

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Speaker 2: would have cried a lot. I would have been under

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Speaker 2: the table rocking just a little bit. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: really scared. Also, I live in the US, so.

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Speaker 5: To be a pregnant woman potentially trying to work out

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Speaker 5: if I'm going to re enter the workforce or what

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Speaker 5: I'm going to do. I just had a lot of

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Speaker 5: thoughts and what's happening with my health cover you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm pregnant.

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Speaker 2: Lots of things figure out, and so I really had to.

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Speaker 2: I did a lot of chat japt hard Pools through

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Speaker 2: that period. Yeah, good good.

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Speaker 6: That shows you where my mind was at you know what,

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Speaker 6: We've all been there, Yeah, but I really just had

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Speaker 6: to trust that, you know, like the universe usually has

355
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Speaker 6: my back, and I would figure it out and we

356
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Speaker 6: like definitely got the train back on the tracks.

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Speaker 5: And it was looking pretty positive like throughout this year

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Speaker 5: towards this acquisition, and I knew at the time I

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Speaker 5: would look back at this year and actually be really

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Speaker 5: grateful that I had the time to sit with my

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Speaker 5: thoughts and to reflect. And I thought about consulting, and

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Speaker 5: I thought about starting my own business, and then I realized,

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Speaker 5: I think I want to go and work for a

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Speaker 5: brand again. Like I when I think about my career,

365
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Speaker 5: I just feel so I have so many fond memories

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Speaker 5: of my Bumble time. I like to kind of take

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Speaker 5: something that I see the potential in and like try

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Speaker 5: to blow it up.

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Speaker 2: And so I began to reach.

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Speaker 5: Out to invest that we had at Sunroom that I trusted,

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Speaker 5: and one of our investors is this woman called Michelle

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Speaker 5: Kennedy and she was actually on the board at Bumble.

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Speaker 5: She came up with the name Bumble and she invested

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Speaker 5: in That's so cool, yeah, And she invested in Sunroom.

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Speaker 2: So she's kind of like always like been there, just

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Speaker 2: out of the journey. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And she's the founder and CEO of Peanut, which is

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Speaker 5: a platform, a community platform for moms you can also track.

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Speaker 3: Very popular in the US, but it's taking I guess

380
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,399
Speaker 3: Australia by storm, like I'm on Peanut, are you?

381
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Speaker 1: Yes?

382
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 3: I like send you screenshots to be like tracking a coincidence,

383
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,359
Speaker 3: like look at my Peanut messages.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it's an amazing platform. I actually downloaded it when

385
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Speaker 5: I was pregnant with Alfie because I.

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Speaker 2: Seem like when I was having Harvey, I was like,

387
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Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing.

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00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, So there's forums, you can track your pregnancy,

389
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Speaker 5: you can connect with other women. And I didn't know

390
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 5: where that conversation was going to go. I was just

391
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,119
Speaker 5: feeling a bit lost, and so I actually think I asked,

392
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Speaker 5: you know, can I consult or contract for you?

393
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Speaker 2: As I'm kind of figuring out where my next move is.

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00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, And she ended up being in LA She's based

395
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Speaker 5: in the UK, and I went and met her at

396
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Speaker 5: a hotel and I think we want to talk for

397
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Speaker 5: thirty minutes and it ended up being two hours.

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Speaker 3: When those happened, because you just feel like you have

399
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 3: like a deeper connection and then you're like, wow, this

400
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 3: is really cool.

401
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

402
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 5: And then at the end of that meeting, it kind

403
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 5: of went from potentially contracting to I actually think you

404
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 5: need to like come and like run this with me,

405
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 5: and yeah, I just got goose bumps, which is you.

406
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 2: I just got signed bumps. Like literally, I'm like, ah, yes,

407
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:34,640
Speaker 2: good world.

408
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 3: I feel like sometimes we feel like the universe doesn't

409
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,160
Speaker 3: have our back, and then it's like moments like these,

410
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 3: it's like it does.

411
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Speaker 2: It does have your back. I just couldn't believe it.

412
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Speaker 5: I got tears in my eyes, and I just respect

413
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 5: her so much, and I just thought the opportunity to

414
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Speaker 5: be able to work alongside her on a product I

415
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 5: care about this problem and it's something I think about

416
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,199
Speaker 5: when I'm in the shower. It's how I show up

417
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 5: online naturally. Anyway, it just felt like this is a

418
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 5: perfect It felt too good to be true. When you

419
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 5: told me, I was like, yes, that is perfect. Yeah,

420
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 5: I'm still waiting for it to fall apart.

421
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 2: To be honest, it's not going to It's not going

422
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 2: to fall apart. It's going to fall together.

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00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

424
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 5: So I'm actually today is actually meant to be my

425
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Speaker 5: first official day as president of Peanut, and I'm going to.

426
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Speaker 3: Go, you're president of Peanut, yes, And how many weeks

427
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Speaker 3: pregnant are you?

428
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Speaker 2: Thirty?

429
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Speaker 3: So you're thirty weeks pregnant and got a job in

430
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Speaker 3: the US as the president of a company.

431
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Speaker 2: Hmm, okay, pop off, you know what not, biggie.

432
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Speaker 5: It is a crazy moment, and I was so scared,

433
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Speaker 5: like navigating that with my pregnancy as well.

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Speaker 2: You know, I had so much angst because.

435
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 5: I thought, oh, I really want to get in the door,

436
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 5: I want to get some runs on the board, and

437
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 5: that I do need to go and have my yeah,

438
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 5: second child. But yeah, it just feels like, honestly, such

439
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 5: a perfect ending and like start of this new chapter

440
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 5: for me, and I just honestly couldn't be more excited.

441
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Speaker 3: In addition to all of that, like that's all so good,

442
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 3: but the ethos of Peanut, the user experience of Peanut,

443
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 3: the clients on Peanut, Sorry you're on the journey with them,

444
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 3: Like what a better person to know them and show

445
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 3: them than someone going through the journey and be like, no,

446
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 3: this is what I needed, And like I feel like

447
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 3: we need more of that.

448
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's literally so perfect. I'm so excited for you.

449
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 2: Thank you. It's very cool.

450
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 3: All right, let's take a really quick break because I

451
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 3: promised at the start of this episode that I would

452
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 3: ask you like career questions that my community had instead

453
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 3: talking about your journey.

454
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, what else, Michelle, what's talking about me?

455
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 2: So we will.

456
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 3: I would love to keep talking about you, but our

457
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: community has questions that I think you are going to

458
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 3: answer incredibly well, So.

459
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere, guys.

460
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 3: All right, we are back, and like I promised, it

461
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 3: is time to put Michelle in the hot seat, not

462
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 3: just the interview seat, to give us a little bit

463
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 3: of career advice. We have so many career questions that

464
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 3: come through literally every single week into our DMS, and

465
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 3: I would say that one of our biggest questions that

466
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 3: we get from our community is saying they just don't

467
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 3: know whether they should make the creer leap, Like that

468
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 3: is so scary, Like do I take a step back?

469
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 3: Do I apply for a job that I'm not qualified for?

470
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 3: Do I, you know, take a step forward and do

471
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 3: a little bit of training, Like what if I don't

472
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 3: even like it?

473
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: Like what do I do?

474
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 3: So Michelle, what other signs you think mean it's time

475
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 3: to change things up and.

476
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 2: Take that next step.

477
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 5: I honestly think the number one sign is that you're

478
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 5: even thinking about it.

479
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: I agree, no, that you're thinking it, do it? Yes,

480
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 2: it's it's definitely that. I think.

481
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 5: If you've got those underlying feelings but they're just making

482
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 5: you feel uncomfortable so you're ignoring them, that's your trigger

483
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 5: to start really like digging into this. And I honestly

484
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 5: think a great first step is just talking to people

485
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 5: about it, admitting that that's the way you feel. I

486
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 5: think it then depends how like what your risk appetite

487
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 5: is like, so probably both of us we would just

488
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 5: dive head into something without really thinking.

489
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 3: Much, honestly, like as much as it's worked out for

490
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 3: both of us, Like I think we are both equally

491
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 3: chaotic and like people. And I'm going to ask you

492
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 3: this in a minute, but people always like, oh my god,

493
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 3: you're so like intentional, and I'm like.

494
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 2: Am I am?

495
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: I just seemed like a good idea and I didn't

496
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 3: take any time to look at the risks.

497
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 5: But yes, intention yeah, I think there's a couple of

498
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 5: ways you can play it. There's a couple of frameworks

499
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 5: that I love. I think if you're the sort of

500
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 5: person who needs a bit of structure. So one thing

501
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 5: that I actually did before I started sun Room, which

502
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 5: was almost out of character for me, is have you hurt?

503
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 5: Do you know what an ikey guy is?

504
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

505
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 4: I have.

506
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 3: This course calls your Best Year Yet that I launch

507
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 3: at the start of every year, and that is one

508
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 3: of my suggested readings, Go find your ikey guys.

509
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.

510
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 5: So it's basically a Japanese framework for finding your purpose

511
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 5: in life, but it's been transformed and you can apply

512
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 5: it to your career.

513
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: So you really just ask yourself four questions. It's what

514
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: am I good? What do I love? What does the world? Sorry?

515
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: What am I good at? Yet? I put the ass

516
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: at the end of that, I knew what you meant

517
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: what everybody else knew to what am I good at?

518
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: What do I love? What does the world need? And

519
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 2: what can I be paid for? And I actually looked

520
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: back at my ikey guy that I did.

521
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 5: In twenty twenty when I was founding sun Room, like

522
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 5: a year ago, as I was navigating my career as

523
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 5: a mum. I came back to it as like it

524
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 5: was almost my personal north star and realized I wasn't

525
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 5: actually doing any of the things I loved or was

526
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 5: good at in my day to day, like I had

527
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 5: been taken down this rabbit hole of just you know,

528
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 5: the daily grind. And so it's a really good exercise

529
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 5: to also come back to if you're feeling it's.

530
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 3: A little bit confronting, not gonna lie. I went through

531
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 3: it a year ago when I was like, oh, this

532
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: best year yet. Course has been out for a while

533
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 3: and it's really popular. I'm just going to go back

534
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 3: through all of the readings and I really read the

535
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 3: book and I was like, cool, I need to just

536
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 3: get a little bit more on track with what I

537
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 3: said I was going to do. But it can be

538
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 3: really helpful, Like that's one of my favorite resources.

539
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I think that's a good one to start with.

540
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 5: Then Tim Ferriss actually has a line of questioning in

541
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 5: his book The Four Hour Work Week, So I think

542
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 5: this is a little bit more tactical. So the first

543
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 5: thing that you do is about defining your fears. So

544
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 5: you ask yourself a whole bunch of what if questions,

545
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 5: and it's like, what if you know the worst outcome,

546
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 5: what if my business fails and I run out of money.

547
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 5: What if my business fails and I lose my visa

548
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 5: and I have to leave the US And you just

549
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 5: get it all.

550
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: Down on paper.

551
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 5: And then part two of that is preventative action, Like, Okay,

552
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 5: here's all the things I'm really scared of, But what

553
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 5: is actually the worst thing that's going to happen. Okay,

554
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 5: my business fails and I run out of money, maybe

555
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 5: I've saved three months salary and that's enough for me

556
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 5: to re enter the world.

557
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 3: I can re enter the workforce. Ye I always have

558
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: that in the back of my head. I'm like, do

559
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 3: you know what I make a mean coffee? I'd be

560
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: a sick barista. I can go get a job in

561
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 3: a cafe any day, if the week, yep, I'll be fine.

562
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Can't be that deep.

563
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 5: Exactly, And like, okay, I need to leave the country.

564
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 5: Maybe I have to go live with my parents. Are

565
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 5: a bit I think whenever you're taking some risk, there

566
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 5: is a little bit of an element of needing to

567
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 5: swallow your pride. And you might think everyone's watching you fail.

568
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: They're not. Everyone's too absorbed with themselves, Like it isn't

569
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: that big a deal. Really.

570
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 5: Even when I left banking and started working at Bumble,

571
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 5: I'd never heard of the company. It wasn't established in Australia.

572
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 5: I had no idea if they were even going to

573
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 5: pay me. I quit my job, worked in retail, got

574
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 5: my old job back at a surf store when I

575
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 5: was twenty five, and moved back in with my parents,

576
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 5: and there was just this period of Okay, I just

577
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 5: need to do this until I figure out if this

578
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 5: Bumble is even a legitimate company.

579
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 3: That's what we need to talk about more as well,

580
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 3: because I think that they're the non shiny things that

581
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: you did where people are like, oh, and I feel

582
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 3: like sometimes and this is not I hope not disrespectful,

583
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 3: but sometimes we can put your career on a silver

584
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: platter and be like, oh my god, look at what

585
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 3: she did at Bumble and then she's gone on to

586
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 3: build her own business and that's insane. But like, also,

587
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: look at the sacrifice you made, Like you went boots

588
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 3: and all into this opportunity, not even knowing if they

589
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 3: would pay you, but you're like really excited about it,

590
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 3: And I'm going to swallow my pride and go get

591
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: my job back at my old retail surf store, but like,

592
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 3: no one's talking about that party. But that's the sacrifice

593
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 3: you make to kind of slingshot yourself forward. But then

594
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 3: when people start talking about it, they just they just

595
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: see the shiny name and they see obviously what you've done,

596
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 3: and that's incredible. But like it actually takes two parts,

597
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: Like you have to kind of like be willing to

598
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 3: spoiler your pride and be willing to take a step back,

599
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: because if you're not, the opportunities aren't just sitting there

600
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 3: on a silver platter. They don't look like they're on

601
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: a silver platter until you're looking at them retrospectively.

602
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.

603
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 5: I so so believe that, Okay, And then the third

604
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 5: part of this is you ask yourself, what would part

605
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 5: what could partial success look like if I did this?

606
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 5: And I love that question because this kind of segus

607
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 5: nicely off your point. I think sometimes we're focused on

608
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 5: the huge end goal, like not knocking it out of

609
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 5: the park, making load of money, reaching X downloads, or

610
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 5: all these sorts of things.

611
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 2: But to actually ask yourself what would partial success look like?

612
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 5: I think it gets you into the right framework, in

613
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 5: the right head space of realizing that there is actually

614
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 5: no failure. If you take a swing and miss, you've

615
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 5: still learnt so much. You've still inflated your own value

616
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 5: as an individual. You can command more wherever you go next.

617
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 5: You can bring unique experiences you didn't have before. So

618
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 5: I really like the partial success question and then the

619
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 5: last one, and this is this is good. It is

620
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 5: what would your life look like if there was no

621
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 5: action taken three months, six months, twelve months from now,

622
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 5: And you break it down into emotional, physical, and financial,

623
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 5: So maybe it's like, Okay, in three months, I'm actually

624
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 5: in a toxic work environment. Emotionally, I'm going to be

625
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 5: way worse off than I'm even feeling now. Like physically,

626
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 5: maybe I'm so burnt out and like overrun and over

627
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 5: this that I'm going to be living in unhealthy lifestyle

628
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 5: because I have no time to get out of the

629
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 5: house or you know, I'm just uber eating every night,

630
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 5: which I got to do anyway, But I.

631
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: Want you feel attacked on my own podcast. But you know,

632
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 2: just getting into those sometimes we do what we've got

633
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: to do.

634
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, and seasons there are total seasons as well,

635
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 5: But just asking yourself those questions, I think if you're

636
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 5: the sort of person who really needs to see it

637
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 5: on a page and needs a bit more of a push.

638
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 5: Those are two things that I think you can do

639
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 5: to identify if you know you actually really need to

640
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 5: make a jump.

641
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about I guess this

642
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 3: like career strategy that if we look at your career,

643
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 3: looks like you are so intentional. You're like, yep, and

644
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to bumble and I'm going to

645
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 3: do this and I'm going to smash it out of

646
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: the park. And that's so cool and so inspiring. But

647
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: I feel like every single time you've pivoted, and every

648
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: single time you've moved to a different role or taken

649
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: on becoming a founder, you've obviously added massive skills to

650
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 3: your portfolio, which, as you said before, even if it

651
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: doesn't work out, you've got another feather in your hat

652
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 3: that you can command, more pay for, more respect, for

653
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 3: a better job. Like you can do so much with it.

654
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: But what advice would you give to someone who's like,

655
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 3: I want to be strategic too, because is there all

656
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: that strategy or is it following your passion and following

657
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 3: you know what you think is really exciting and what

658
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: lights you up because I feel like so many times,

659
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: especially if you are in a salary payg job and

660
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: you're like, Okay, cool, I've got this really consistent income coming,

661
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: it's a massive risk to leave. Especially honestly, as we

662
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: get to be older, our responsibilities are more. We might

663
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: have a partner, we might have rent on a more

664
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 3: expensive place, we might have a mortgage, we might have kids,

665
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: and that stuff is not twenty five year old decisions, right, Yeah.

666
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 5: As you were speaking, I was thinking, yeah, I don't

667
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 5: have a strategy, but it actually is a strategy.

668
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 2: That's the strategy.

669
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I fully just I really trust my intuition, and

670
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 5: I know I questioned myself on why I'm making the

671
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 5: choice that I'm making. So for example, this decision to

672
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 5: go to Peanut, one of the companies that was going

673
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 5: to acquire us ended up offering Lucy and I these packages,

674
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 5: and it was I feel kind of uncomfortable talking about this,

675
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 5: but it's a Shoes on the Money podcast.

676
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,719
Speaker 3: I think we also don't have to because like at

677
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 3: the end of the day, and I said this before

678
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: you came on the podcast, like you don't have to

679
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: disclose anything. It's nobody's business, Like if you sold for

680
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: one hundred dollars or one hundred million dollars, it actually

681
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 3: doesn't matter because it doesn't impact people. What impacts people

682
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 3: is strategy and decision making. And wow, she had the

683
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: balls to do that, because do you know what if

684
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 3: you sold for one hundred dollars and you guys had

685
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: decided that that was the best thing for your community,

686
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 3: for your business, and for yourselves, that's a sleigh same

687
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 3: thing is true at one hundred million dollars.

688
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: People are just pervy and want.

689
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 3: To know how rich you got from it, you know, like,

690
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 3: and that's actually none of their business. And I feel

691
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: like I do backtracking. I do on Mondays every single

692
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 3: week of money diary, and a lot of people has

693
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: said to me, Vitraya, why don't you do a money diary?

694
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, everyone on my show has been

695
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 3: gifted anonymity, Like they come on my show, they tell

696
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 3: me how much they earn, how much they spend, how

697
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 3: much they earn, how much they owe, and they don't

698
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: have a name to that, so there's no traceable. Yeah,

699
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 3: if I start coming out and disclosing my income, my salary,

700
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 3: what I pay myself, how I pay myself what my

701
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 3: business is valued at God, that's going to be front

702
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: page of the daily mail. And also the people who

703
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: care aren't the people who benefit from it. The people

704
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 3: who benefit from that conversation. They're not taking how much

705
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: I earned, they're taking, Oh, what strategy did you have?

706
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: How did you feel? Like, like Michelle, how do you

707
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 3: back yourself? So I don't want you to be uncomfortable

708
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: or answer anything that you're like, oh, I don't know,

709
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: because we can admit all of that stuff. But it's

710
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 3: more around like the strategy and the game and what

711
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: that looks like, because like, yeah, nobody's going to build

712
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: another sun room because it's already in existence, and if

713
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: they do, they're already three, probably ten steps behind.

714
00:32:59,520 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 5: You know.

715
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 2: No, I think this is good and like it does

716
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: kind of get to the strategy.

717
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 5: So one of these offers was like an end of

718
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 5: your career type salary I thought I would get, Like

719
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 5: I just kind of.

720
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: Was like when I sink Dog. Yeah, I was like.

721
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 5: Shit, And I went through the process because I also

722
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 5: had I was also really curious to see how am

723
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 5: I valued in a big place like this after I've

724
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 5: done all this. I'd always believed that it didn't really

725
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 5: matter what outcome I got with sun Room, because maybe

726
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 5: I could go to one of these big companies and

727
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 5: I could command a lot. So I was doing it

728
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 5: as a bit of a challenge to myself. I really

729
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 5: wanted to see how would I be leveled, what would

730
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 5: my package look like? And I wasn't really going through

731
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 5: the process with the intent to take the role. Yeah totally,

732
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 5: because I was already listening to my heart. Would you

733
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 5: go shopping? It's the window shopping.

734
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

735
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 5: But then when I got it, I was like, oh shit,

736
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 5: like this is very very hard, Like how do you

737
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 5: not take this? And I had to really spend some

738
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 5: time thinking about how it would feel to show up

739
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 5: in you know, I kind of had pe nut and

740
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 5: then I had this other offer, and I was trying

741
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 5: to put myself in the position of showing up at

742
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 5: these workplaces every day and working on the problem and

743
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 5: about where my life is at now. And I'm the

744
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 5: kind of person where if I can't identify with the

745
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 5: problem or the product, if I can identify with the

746
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 5: problem and the product, it just like all clicks and

747
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 5: it feels really easy, and it's like my flow state

748
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 5: and everything just comes and it feels amazing. And that's

749
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 5: kind of how I was feeling about the peanut thing.

750
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 5: But pe nut is like an amazing opportunity, but also

751
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 5: still startup vibes.

752
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: And I've been working in startups for ten years now,

753
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: and I found some room very hard. It was very relentless.

754
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 5: Was a grind the entire way through, And so there

755
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 5: was a part of me that's like, do I need

756
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 5: a break? I'm a Do I take the easier job

757
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 5: that's going to pay me so well?

758
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: I could make bank, But maybe I wouldn't be that happy.

759
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 2: Yes, and I'd be a cog in the wheel.

760
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 5: Respectfully, I would feel like I'm a cog in the wheel,

761
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 5: and maybe if I wanted to do something, I'd need

762
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 5: to ask two people's permission before I'm allowed to do it,

763
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 5: and maybe they're going to mandate that I.

764
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: And don't get me wrong, like that's not a bad thing,

765
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 3: but I think also, once you've been a founder of

766
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 3: your own business, it is very hard, Yeah, to take

767
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 3: that step back where you aren't like, but I'm happy

768
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: to take accountability for this project, Like I don't need

769
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: other people sign off.

770
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be really challenging. For me as well.

771
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 5: I kind of felt like if I was real, if

772
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 5: I was going to work in an in someone else's

773
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 5: organization again, this Peenut opportunity just felt.

774
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: Like bang of.

775
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 4: Back.

776
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would still have that like owner mindset or

777
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 5: a bit of like it's not like I need to

778
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 5: be like in power or anything.

779
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: I kind of articulate it.

780
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 3: But a decision making process is being able.

781
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: To have an idea and just start alementation. Yeah.

782
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I don't want to I'm not doing a proposal.

783
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 5: I'm not going to ask three people's permission.

784
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 3: I need to say, you can't sit on this for

785
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 3: three months and like get me three different quotes and

786
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 3: then we can maybe consider it, and then we don't

787
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 3: have capacity. Sorry, Michelle, Yes exactly. No, that's not how

788
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 3: my brain works.

789
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 5: Like I just need to be able to shoot my

790
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 5: shot at this and like if it fails, I won't

791
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 5: do it again.

792
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 2: No issues.

793
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, Like I so I really went inward

794
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 5: and I really just trusted my gut and my instincts

795
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 5: and I just to be honest. Even when I saw

796
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 5: the huge offer, it was more like, well I already

797
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 5: knew I'm not going to take it. But I wish

798
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 5: I didn't know what it was that yeah, yeah, yeah,

799
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 5: like I already know I'm going to go with this

800
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 5: other one, but like now I'll.

801
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 2: Know forever that I know that power move. Yeah.

802
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 5: But I also do think it was like I was

803
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 5: kind of only doing it to build confidence anyway. And

804
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 5: this is why taking I find taking risks easier is

805
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 5: because I just reinforced an assumption that I had, which

806
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 5: is like, I'll probably always be able to go and

807
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 5: get that. Yeah, So I want to follow my heart

808
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 5: and go where I see there's more long term potential

809
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 5: whilst I'm still.

810
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 3: Really right because there are probably a lot of people

811
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 3: in my community that have these offers. And it's kind

812
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 3: of like also similar in a way to staying where

813
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: you're at. You're like, Okay, maybe you've reached that one

814
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars salary, and you're like, but I also

815
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: know that next year that's going to be one hundred

816
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 3: and ten, and then you know a few years later,

817
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 3: I might be on one twenty and like that feels

818
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 3: really safe and that's like a very good amount of money.

819
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: Or do I pivot and go to a different industry

820
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 3: and I don't know what that's going to pay or

821
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 3: I don't know how sustainable that is, And you know

822
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 3: you haven't got enough experience to know what that career

823
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 3: trajectory looks like. You've played very heavily, I would say,

824
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 3: in the tech space over your career. And this is

825
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 3: an industry that we've been talking a lot about on

826
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 3: our podcast because women can make bank and I think

827
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 3: that so many women are scared of tech because they're like, oh,

828
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 3: I'm not really a techy person, like I don't get it.

829
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 3: But from an investment and then also a career angle,

830
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: we've talked about this idea of like high risk, high reward,

831
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 3: and lots of people that are listening to the show

832
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 3: we are high risk people because we want the reward.

833
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 3: Like you don't listen to a show like She's on

834
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 3: the Money because you don't want to change your life,

835
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 3: be better at money, be better at finance, have a

836
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: better career, have a better life. Like the community that

837
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 3: I have built, they listen to this content because they're

838
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 3: like I want to do better for myself, Like I

839
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: want to upgrade, like I want to put myself in

840
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 3: the driver's seat. What do you think are the key

841
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 3: things that made you so successful in tech, both as

842
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 3: an employee but then now as a startup founder.

843
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 2: That has exited.

844
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 5: Interesting question because it really was Bumble that was sort

845
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 5: of this break through moment in my career. And I

846
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 5: think what helped me get ahead at Bumble was I

847
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 5: really gave a shit. A lot of people don't care

848
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 5: about their jobs, and it's fine if it's fine if

849
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 5: you don't care about your job.

850
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: There are also certain roles where you do just.

851
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 5: Need someone to clock in at nine, clock out at five,

852
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 5: and maybe it doesn't need to be their passion.

853
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: They've got other passions in life, you know, And there

854
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: are lots of jobs that serve that purpose.

855
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, But for me, that job at Bumble did become

856
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 5: my purpose, my life, my identity, and so I think

857
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 5: I stood out in that role within the company because

858
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 5: I really lived and breathed it and I went above

859
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 5: and beyond, and I do as I've now gone on.

860
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: To employ people.

861
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 5: I actually do think it's pretty easy to stand out

862
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 5: as a bit of an all start in an organization

863
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 5: because there's just so many really little things people aren't

864
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 5: willing to do, Like, for example, at the end of

865
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 5: the day, before you shut your laptop and walk out

866
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 5: the door actually announcing, Hey, I'm probably going to wrap

867
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 5: up soon. Is there anything I can help you with?

868
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 5: That is just simply kind of caring, asking if anyone

869
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 5: needs a hand, showing that you're a team player, And

870
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 5: most of the time no one will say anything anyway.

871
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 3: They'll be like, oh, no, no thanks though hashell like

872
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 3: have a good night, you go home, like, oh my god,

873
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 3: it's already five thirty, Like, yeah, that's the conversation.

874
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just little things that I think can make you.

875
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 5: Stand out, or like the way you celebrate other people

876
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 5: in the team, or if you're a leader, exposing members

877
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 5: of your own team in public slack channels and calling

878
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 5: out their work.

879
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: There's just, yeah, so many little things that I think.

880
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 5: It also positions you as a leader, even if you're

881
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 5: doing those things and you're not one, which I think

882
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 5: then can get eyes on you for promotional opportunities, and

883
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 5: it's kind of the way you carry yourself. So I

884
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 5: do I think there's an element of like simplicity and

885
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 5: just doing things like that to your point as well

886
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 5: about you know, maybe being a bit intimidated by the tech.

887
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: Industry because it's scary.

888
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like, I'm not really I wouldn't say I

889
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 5: necessarily fit a tech go you.

890
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 2: Grew a tech business, you sold a tech business. I

891
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: think you.

892
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: I think you're very well educated in this space.

893
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: It's weird, though, because.

894
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 5: I would never have put that if someone told me

895
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 5: I was going to do that when I was in

896
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 5: year twelve, I'd be.

897
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: Like, oh no, no, working in finance ball.

898
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 5: But I also think tech has so many different ways

899
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 5: to get involved in it without needing to be an engineer.

900
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 5: Like you can be a product designer, you could be

901
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 5: a project manager, you could be marketing, you could be

902
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 5: in social content. There are so many different doorways. Granted,

903
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 5: if you do want to go on and found a

904
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 5: tech company, it's like you will need to find an engineer.

905
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 2: Oh, you're going to have to play in that space, yes,

906
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 2: but you.

907
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 5: Can then attract engineers if you've worked alongside them previously,

908
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 5: so that can really help as an avenue in But

909
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 5: I think one of the coolest things about tech is

910
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 5: they are very fast, aggressively wired, growth type environments, and

911
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 5: I feel like if you can get involved in a

912
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 5: startup early, like one of the first ten employees, it

913
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 5: just has the opportunity to really catapult your career because

914
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 5: you will have to act like an owner whether you

915
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 5: want to or not. You will have to develop an

916
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 5: appetite for risk, You will have to get comfortable with

917
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 5: being agile. Like, there are just loads of skills that

918
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 5: you have to build that I think you can make

919
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 5: you really well rounded and appealing to other environments. And

920
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 5: it's a very unique experience and it doesn't need to

921
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 5: make you like, I'm not necessarily saying you need to

922
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 5: be a Unicorn startup like the Bumble experience, but I

923
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 5: think you can learn those skills in any startup environment.

924
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 5: To be honest, they're also kind of toxic.

925
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: But it's like.

926
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 3: Right now, what I'm hearing from this conversation as well

927
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 3: is something that I feel like I need to point

928
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 3: out because as women, we always underestimate our ability. We

929
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: always like go, oh, maybe I need to go back

930
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 3: to university, or we say things like, oh, I'm not

931
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 3: smart enough for that, or I haven't got experience in that.

932
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 3: All the things that you just said make you this

933
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 3: like unicorn employee, like being on time, caring about your job,

934
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 3: going above and beyond. None of that actually involves intelligence.

935
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: Now they all involve you just giving a shit and

936
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 3: stepping up. And I think that, you know, it's twenty

937
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 3: twenty five, but so many people aren't willing to step

938
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 3: up now, Like, and that's probably a little bit controversial

939
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 3: to say, but I see it on socials all the time,

940
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 3: like I see it online, and I see it in

941
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 3: you know, individuals. I'm you know, always hiring at the moment,

942
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 3: or it feels like I'm always hiring and like our

943
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 3: team is growing, and you just see it even in interviews.

944
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 3: You go, you don't give two shits, Like you just

945
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 3: want to clock in at nine am, clock out at

946
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 3: five pm, and like that's actually irrespective of whether the

947
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 3: job requires that. That's not the type of person I

948
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 3: want to surround myself with. And when you know, even

949
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 3: individual step back and you think about what type of

950
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 3: people do you want to surround yourself with. I want

951
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 3: a team that champions each other. I want a team

952
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 3: that says, oh, hey, did anybody need a hand before

953
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 3: the end.

954
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: Of the day. Like it's not the big things.

955
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 3: It's not the degrees, it's not the you know, how

956
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 3: much you spent on college, it's not any of that.

957
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 2: It's actually about being a good bloody human. Yeah, it's

958
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,959
Speaker 2: an attitude and that's hard. Now, Yeah, I totally agree.

959
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 5: I have found the hiring I got asked a question

960
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 5: last night and it's like, what would go down in

961
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 5: sun room law? And I was thinking, yes, please, Well,

962
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 5: I was thinking it's just all the personnel stuff where

963
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 5: Lucy and I would look at each other and be like,

964
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 5: what the hell was that? Like, you can get really blindsided.

965
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 5: It's really hard to find good people. And that's why

966
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 5: I think once you've got them, like we had some

967
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 5: amazing employees and like we looked after them so well,

968
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 5: would do anything to retain them and just feel so

969
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 5: like indebted to them, and like that's how.

970
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 3: I feel about my current team, and I'm obsessed with them.

971
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 3: Please nobody rock the boat. Yeah all right, So I

972
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 3: know I'm running out of time with you very quickly.

973
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 3: So for anyone who's listening, who's maybe scared of making

974
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 3: a really big career change, what would you say to

975
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 3: them right now? We've obviously talked about a lot, but like,

976
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 3: what would you just direct advice say?

977
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 5: I said this to myself when I took the job

978
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 5: at Bumble, and I've said it to myself with like

979
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 5: every step I've taken sins and it's so simple and basic,

980
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 5: and it's just better to try and fail. Better to

981
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 5: try and fail than to have never tried it all.

982
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 5: And I just that's kind of like my life motto.

983
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 5: And so I really don't think there's even now selling

984
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 5: this company. I don't think there's such thing as failure

985
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 5: at all, because you do learn so much and I've

986
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 5: kind of just proven through this process you can take

987
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 5: it and then command way more where you go next.

988
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: So I just I don't know, it's not that deep,

989
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: but it's not that deep. Just do it. If it

990
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: doesn't work out, you can go back to your old job.

991
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 2: Just don't burn bridges, do like.

992
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 5: The icky guy and use that framework, because I think

993
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 5: it'll just reinforce that you're probably ready.

994
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just think like better to try and

995
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 2: fail than to have never tried at all.

996
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 3: Love love, Well, Unfortunately, Michelle, that is all we have

997
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 3: time for today. I know you are a very busy woman,

998
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 3: so thank you so much for joining us and for

999
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 3: sharing just so.

1000
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 2: Much with us.

1001
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 3: I feel like we did get a little bit pervy.

1002
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: We learned about your new job to sale of your business.

1003
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: But like most importantly, we learnt just do it, just

1004
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 3: rip the mandate off. It's not that deep and that

1005
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 3: sounds really silly, but I promise looking back, it's honestly

1006
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 3: so much more about the journey than the actual destination,

1007
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 3: because how many times do you get to the destination

1008
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: then you're like saying it, I'm selling it.

1009
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 2: And we're going to do it again exactly. Thanks for

1010
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: having me, of course.

1011
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 3: And guys, if you loved this episode as much as

1012
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 3: I have loved recording it for you, go and follow

1013
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: Michelle to keep up with everything she's working on. I'm

1014
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 3: going to make sure that all of her links are

1015
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 3: in the show notes. And while you're at it, if

1016
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 3: you found this chat inspiring, share with a friend and

1017
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 3: make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss an episode.

1018
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 3: I'll see you guys on Friday. Bye did By shared.

1019
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 4: On She's on the Money is general in nature and

1020
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,279
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1021
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,960
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1022
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 4: upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you

1023
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Speaker 4: do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS

1024
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Speaker 4: TMD and obtain appropriate financial.

1025
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: Advice tailored towards your needs.

1026
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 4: Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives

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1028
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