1 00:00:04,071 --> 00:00:09,751 Speaker 1: Black Cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Women Podcast acknowledges 2 00:00:09,911 --> 00:00:12,911 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this 3 00:00:12,991 --> 00:00:16,111 Speaker 1: episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land 4 00:00:16,151 --> 00:00:19,591 Speaker 1: where you, the listener of youer are tuning in from. 5 00:00:19,871 --> 00:00:21,991 Speaker 1: We would like to pay our respects to our elders 6 00:00:22,031 --> 00:00:25,591 Speaker 1: past and present and acknowledged that this always was Aboriginal 7 00:00:25,711 --> 00:00:28,351 Speaker 1: land and always will be Aboriginal land. 8 00:00:30,951 --> 00:00:35,511 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail. 9 00:00:40,111 --> 00:00:42,831 Speaker 1: Hey you mob, Welcome back to another episode of Black 10 00:00:42,871 --> 00:00:46,511 Speaker 1: Magic Women. I am kind of in two minds about 11 00:00:46,511 --> 00:00:48,751 Speaker 1: this year. I'm like, what are we going to yearn about? 12 00:00:48,791 --> 00:00:51,471 Speaker 1: Because twenty minutes is not a lot of time. So 13 00:00:51,551 --> 00:00:54,031 Speaker 1: I'm like, should we do part one apart two? I 14 00:00:54,071 --> 00:00:56,151 Speaker 1: think we'll end up doing part two all right, So 15 00:00:56,231 --> 00:00:58,831 Speaker 1: we'll try and get through as much as we can 16 00:00:58,991 --> 00:01:02,511 Speaker 1: in terms of the work that you do in community systs, 17 00:01:02,551 --> 00:01:05,871 Speaker 1: all the different hats you where and even some of 18 00:01:05,911 --> 00:01:09,351 Speaker 1: your your family that are my family. I don't know 19 00:01:09,351 --> 00:01:11,191 Speaker 1: where this yard is going to go, but that's what 20 00:01:11,271 --> 00:01:13,111 Speaker 1: I love about the format of this show. So I'm 21 00:01:13,111 --> 00:01:16,231 Speaker 1: gonna hand over to you so deadly to catch up 22 00:01:16,271 --> 00:01:18,791 Speaker 1: with you. I've run into you now twice in like 23 00:01:19,151 --> 00:01:22,631 Speaker 1: last week here on Yagura Country. We've kind of just 24 00:01:22,631 --> 00:01:24,511 Speaker 1: bumped into each other at the Human Rights sum up, 25 00:01:24,551 --> 00:01:27,951 Speaker 1: which has been really deadly. But for people that don't 26 00:01:27,991 --> 00:01:30,631 Speaker 1: know who you are, can you just do a little intro, 27 00:01:31,151 --> 00:01:33,471 Speaker 1: your name, your molbourne, a little bit about where you 28 00:01:33,511 --> 00:01:33,911 Speaker 1: grew up. 29 00:01:34,231 --> 00:01:37,271 Speaker 2: Yeah, so my name is Larisa Baldwin Roberts and I'm 30 00:01:37,311 --> 00:01:40,791 Speaker 2: proud which were wible woman. Grew up on country in Lizmore, 31 00:01:40,871 --> 00:01:44,191 Speaker 2: but you know, big, big country in the Northern Rivers 32 00:01:44,231 --> 00:01:47,751 Speaker 2: and it's an amazing place to grow up in, hanging 33 00:01:47,751 --> 00:01:49,831 Speaker 2: out Lismore and Nimben and that sort of stuff with 34 00:01:49,951 --> 00:01:52,231 Speaker 2: your kids and out at Gunda and those types of things. 35 00:01:52,271 --> 00:01:54,391 Speaker 2: But all my mob is all the Roberts mob, the 36 00:01:54,511 --> 00:01:57,711 Speaker 2: biggest more going down in northern New South Wales. And 37 00:01:58,031 --> 00:02:00,991 Speaker 2: I work, as I say, I'm an organizer campaign. I've 38 00:02:00,991 --> 00:02:04,471 Speaker 2: had lots of different titles of led the largest political 39 00:02:04,551 --> 00:02:06,631 Speaker 2: organization in the country, which was get Up, but I 40 00:02:06,671 --> 00:02:10,111 Speaker 2: have moved on from there and now not just set 41 00:02:10,151 --> 00:02:11,831 Speaker 2: up because it's been around for a while, but I 42 00:02:11,951 --> 00:02:16,111 Speaker 2: head up some research projects called passing the Message Dick. 43 00:02:16,111 --> 00:02:18,911 Speaker 2: It's the research director looking at how we persuade people 44 00:02:18,911 --> 00:02:22,631 Speaker 2: around rights and justice and transformative change and kind of 45 00:02:22,631 --> 00:02:25,871 Speaker 2: that big picture thinking. And you know how voters in 46 00:02:25,871 --> 00:02:28,231 Speaker 2: this country or not Indigenous people in this country not 47 00:02:28,271 --> 00:02:30,071 Speaker 2: just how they understand us, but how do you get 48 00:02:30,071 --> 00:02:31,751 Speaker 2: them to vote on the issues that matter to us. 49 00:02:32,591 --> 00:02:36,631 Speaker 2: And excitingly, just this week we've formally been registered as 50 00:02:36,631 --> 00:02:41,471 Speaker 2: a corporation, so First Nations led campaigning organizing. We want 51 00:02:41,511 --> 00:02:45,151 Speaker 2: to build movements for big systemic change and you know 52 00:02:45,151 --> 00:02:47,951 Speaker 2: it's something that doesn't get a lot of resource and 53 00:02:47,991 --> 00:02:50,631 Speaker 2: I think you know, over my years of campaigning and organizing, 54 00:02:50,671 --> 00:02:53,791 Speaker 2: people would know me from different campaigns around climate change, 55 00:02:53,791 --> 00:02:56,991 Speaker 2: which is still really important, and supporting mob across the country, 56 00:02:57,111 --> 00:03:00,111 Speaker 2: big gas campaigns to stop cracking and since twenty ten 57 00:03:00,151 --> 00:03:02,111 Speaker 2: there hasn't been a gas field that has come to reduction. 58 00:03:02,351 --> 00:03:04,351 Speaker 2: To be walking with traditional owners five of those big 59 00:03:04,431 --> 00:03:07,991 Speaker 2: front lines for a really long time. But yeah, pushing 60 00:03:08,031 --> 00:03:11,631 Speaker 2: through legislation on cultural aage, sacred sites acts, getting stuff 61 00:03:11,671 --> 00:03:13,151 Speaker 2: done with people in the ground. 62 00:03:13,751 --> 00:03:18,671 Speaker 1: Do you reckon it's from your upbringing within your family, 63 00:03:18,751 --> 00:03:22,631 Speaker 1: community and culture that has kind of driven you or 64 00:03:22,751 --> 00:03:25,551 Speaker 1: led you to the work that you're doing, or is 65 00:03:25,591 --> 00:03:28,991 Speaker 1: there anyone in particular in your family that you've kind 66 00:03:29,031 --> 00:03:31,311 Speaker 1: of been inspired by. You You're like, you know, I'm 67 00:03:31,311 --> 00:03:33,871 Speaker 1: going to do what they're doing, because seriously, is a 68 00:03:33,871 --> 00:03:37,351 Speaker 1: lot of us in our communities, you know, would say 69 00:03:37,391 --> 00:03:40,551 Speaker 1: that to some degree we do carry out cultural and 70 00:03:40,631 --> 00:03:45,031 Speaker 1: family obligations or community obligations, but you're kind of doing 71 00:03:45,111 --> 00:03:48,551 Speaker 1: things on a mass level. So a lot of us, 72 00:03:48,631 --> 00:03:50,471 Speaker 1: you know, some of us don't want to do things 73 00:03:50,511 --> 00:03:53,271 Speaker 1: in community. And you know, look after twenty kids because 74 00:03:53,311 --> 00:03:55,751 Speaker 1: someone's in jail, I don't know, right, you know what 75 00:03:55,751 --> 00:03:59,631 Speaker 1: I'm talking about all the trauma within our families and communities. 76 00:04:00,071 --> 00:04:04,031 Speaker 1: But yeah, how did you how did you get into 77 00:04:04,071 --> 00:04:06,231 Speaker 1: this kind of work as a community organizer? 78 00:04:07,591 --> 00:04:10,911 Speaker 2: I mean, I think this is the similarities between us, right, 79 00:04:10,951 --> 00:04:12,871 Speaker 2: It's just like what did our old people do? What 80 00:04:12,911 --> 00:04:16,351 Speaker 2: did our fathers do? My dad was a big campaigner 81 00:04:16,351 --> 00:04:17,671 Speaker 2: and he spent a lot of time. He was the 82 00:04:17,711 --> 00:04:22,311 Speaker 2: first regional chairperson of the Regional Land Counselor in the 83 00:04:22,311 --> 00:04:25,791 Speaker 2: Northern Rivers and he was really instrumental in kind of 84 00:04:25,831 --> 00:04:29,031 Speaker 2: the big land Roads movement fifty years ago. My older 85 00:04:29,071 --> 00:04:30,911 Speaker 2: brother talks about, you know, kind of the big rallies 86 00:04:30,951 --> 00:04:32,711 Speaker 2: on the back of trucks that they did through Sydney 87 00:04:32,831 --> 00:04:34,711 Speaker 2: growing up in Redfern because they had to go down 88 00:04:34,751 --> 00:04:36,711 Speaker 2: there because you know, they're on rations. 89 00:04:36,911 --> 00:04:39,071 Speaker 1: That's where they met. They congregated in redl. 90 00:04:39,391 --> 00:04:42,111 Speaker 2: They were part of that Red Fern generation that believed 91 00:04:42,151 --> 00:04:43,831 Speaker 2: like we've got to do this ourselves, We've got to 92 00:04:43,831 --> 00:04:46,951 Speaker 2: set up you know that those were the people that 93 00:04:47,031 --> 00:04:49,591 Speaker 2: set up the legal services, that set up the health community, 94 00:04:49,871 --> 00:04:52,271 Speaker 2: that set up community radio, all these types of things. 95 00:04:52,271 --> 00:04:56,711 Speaker 2: And you know, to me growing up and hearing those stories, 96 00:04:56,711 --> 00:04:59,351 Speaker 2: like I loved it. I love that listening to the 97 00:04:59,391 --> 00:05:01,791 Speaker 2: story of Kabui, which is the you know, our Ooriginal 98 00:05:01,831 --> 00:05:05,711 Speaker 2: mission out the back of Kyagul is more, but you know, 99 00:05:05,991 --> 00:05:08,591 Speaker 2: and the walk off from Cabbastree Island and why they 100 00:05:08,591 --> 00:05:11,671 Speaker 2: did that and why you know uncle Lyle he's very 101 00:05:11,751 --> 00:05:14,071 Speaker 2: senior men, one of the last fully initiated elders in 102 00:05:14,111 --> 00:05:17,351 Speaker 2: Bundelung country and you know him flying the Aboriginal flag 103 00:05:17,391 --> 00:05:19,151 Speaker 2: for the first time on Lismore City Hall and why 104 00:05:19,191 --> 00:05:21,831 Speaker 2: he did it. And just like I didn't think about 105 00:05:21,831 --> 00:05:23,751 Speaker 2: it in terms of a way of like this is 106 00:05:23,871 --> 00:05:27,751 Speaker 2: protest or campaigning or activism, and I didn't really know 107 00:05:27,831 --> 00:05:31,271 Speaker 2: the full stories of like, you know, they the first 108 00:05:31,311 --> 00:05:33,751 Speaker 2: day of morning and there's a down. If you go 109 00:05:33,791 --> 00:05:35,591 Speaker 2: look at the records and stuff like that, there's like 110 00:05:35,631 --> 00:05:38,471 Speaker 2: a petition with five hundred signatures on it, and it's 111 00:05:38,551 --> 00:05:40,471 Speaker 2: like that was the day of the mission movement when 112 00:05:40,511 --> 00:05:41,951 Speaker 2: you had to go the protector to try and get 113 00:05:41,951 --> 00:05:44,271 Speaker 2: off the mission, and they had signatures of five hundred 114 00:05:44,311 --> 00:05:47,791 Speaker 2: people from all these different missions saying we deserve our 115 00:05:47,871 --> 00:05:49,631 Speaker 2: rights and we're going to fight for them, and they 116 00:05:49,631 --> 00:05:52,071 Speaker 2: were you know, Dadd used to tell me stories about 117 00:05:52,111 --> 00:05:54,671 Speaker 2: the big you know, gathering places that Kabawei and Kabawei 118 00:05:54,711 --> 00:05:56,591 Speaker 2: for us means a place of full in plenty, and 119 00:05:56,631 --> 00:05:58,631 Speaker 2: so old people walked off and they're like, now we're 120 00:05:58,631 --> 00:05:59,991 Speaker 2: going to sit up here and we're going to stay 121 00:06:00,031 --> 00:06:03,631 Speaker 2: on country, escape in the violence at Cabatry by the police. 122 00:06:04,551 --> 00:06:06,631 Speaker 2: And so hearing those stories and you're just like you 123 00:06:06,671 --> 00:06:08,951 Speaker 2: see the photos of the big congregations, and then Dad 124 00:06:08,991 --> 00:06:10,911 Speaker 2: would tell us the stories of like we'd have this 125 00:06:11,031 --> 00:06:14,071 Speaker 2: church gathering inviting all these non indigenous people, but we 126 00:06:14,071 --> 00:06:15,871 Speaker 2: were scheming to get our land back, you know, and 127 00:06:15,911 --> 00:06:18,231 Speaker 2: just like hear all those stories and you just love them. 128 00:06:19,471 --> 00:06:20,911 Speaker 1: An ulterior motive. 129 00:06:21,071 --> 00:06:24,751 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because my story of like coming to 130 00:06:24,791 --> 00:06:27,751 Speaker 2: Brisbane is so much around like meeting the Watson family 131 00:06:27,791 --> 00:06:29,871 Speaker 2: and feeling like, oh, I got family here as well, 132 00:06:29,951 --> 00:06:33,071 Speaker 2: just like running around like sleeping on Uncle Ross's couch 133 00:06:33,151 --> 00:06:35,231 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. And I didn't know the connection 134 00:06:35,351 --> 00:06:41,031 Speaker 2: even back then. But it's also strange thinking about like 135 00:06:41,511 --> 00:06:44,191 Speaker 2: the political action of these families. It was just like 136 00:06:44,271 --> 00:06:46,391 Speaker 2: if you had a family business that went for that 137 00:06:46,431 --> 00:06:49,431 Speaker 2: long and that was that successfully and it was like legislation, 138 00:06:49,551 --> 00:06:52,191 Speaker 2: get a weird rid of protection acts, winning you know, 139 00:06:52,311 --> 00:06:55,591 Speaker 2: cultural heritage legislation, ripping down the fence of Parliament when 140 00:06:55,591 --> 00:06:57,711 Speaker 2: they stuffed up the Native Title acting quins On, like 141 00:06:57,751 --> 00:07:01,671 Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff. And you understand like what 142 00:07:01,831 --> 00:07:03,951 Speaker 2: they were doing when they were young people in Didney, 143 00:07:04,031 --> 00:07:08,071 Speaker 2: challenging from that place of colonization about where we were 144 00:07:08,111 --> 00:07:11,231 Speaker 2: going and thinking. And I was having this conversation with 145 00:07:11,231 --> 00:07:14,991 Speaker 2: my cousin, Rhoda Robertson saying, you know, we were talking 146 00:07:14,991 --> 00:07:17,071 Speaker 2: about the kind of amazing things that they did and 147 00:07:17,231 --> 00:07:19,791 Speaker 2: just like you know, people think they're incredible political thinkers. 148 00:07:19,831 --> 00:07:21,391 Speaker 2: And she stopped me and she said, you know what, 149 00:07:21,431 --> 00:07:24,151 Speaker 2: our people were not political thinkers, they were political doers. 150 00:07:24,471 --> 00:07:26,791 Speaker 2: Nothing got in their way. They didn't have a dollar 151 00:07:26,831 --> 00:07:29,151 Speaker 2: between them. You know, they all went down to Redfern 152 00:07:29,391 --> 00:07:32,111 Speaker 2: and because you know, you had to work bring money 153 00:07:32,111 --> 00:07:34,511 Speaker 2: back home because big families and they had to feed them. 154 00:07:34,831 --> 00:07:36,831 Speaker 2: And in Queensland, northern New South Wales if you were 155 00:07:36,831 --> 00:07:38,871 Speaker 2: living on rations but you weren't getting much else to feed, 156 00:07:38,871 --> 00:07:40,511 Speaker 2: big families like that. So a lot of the young 157 00:07:40,551 --> 00:07:43,391 Speaker 2: men and women went down and we're doing that, like 158 00:07:43,511 --> 00:07:46,511 Speaker 2: working all the factories there, or tent boxing. I love 159 00:07:46,551 --> 00:07:49,351 Speaker 2: the stories about the amazing like bunge lung fighters and 160 00:07:49,351 --> 00:07:50,631 Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, and all the work that they 161 00:07:50,631 --> 00:07:52,911 Speaker 2: were doing tent boxing, and then all the kind of 162 00:07:52,951 --> 00:07:55,191 Speaker 2: mission gatherings that they would have after it. Just people 163 00:07:55,231 --> 00:07:56,471 Speaker 2: from everywhere, right. 164 00:07:56,391 --> 00:07:58,311 Speaker 1: And that's my dad used to talk about this with 165 00:07:58,351 --> 00:07:59,151 Speaker 1: the Land Council. 166 00:07:59,231 --> 00:07:59,751 Speaker 2: Yeah. 167 00:07:59,911 --> 00:08:02,071 Speaker 1: Dad said that he never got paid for being the 168 00:08:02,151 --> 00:08:04,231 Speaker 1: chairperson the a Awgal chair of the New South Wales 169 00:08:04,231 --> 00:08:06,791 Speaker 1: Average Non Land Cancer of the State Body, the Peak Body. 170 00:08:07,671 --> 00:08:10,791 Speaker 1: He got an allowance, a travel allowance and he got 171 00:08:11,391 --> 00:08:14,271 Speaker 1: a phone or something right when phones came in. So 172 00:08:14,311 --> 00:08:16,991 Speaker 1: we've got a little travel allowance, but no salary. So 173 00:08:17,071 --> 00:08:22,471 Speaker 1: he started managing black bands, taking black bands out to community, 174 00:08:23,351 --> 00:08:26,591 Speaker 1: and through that he was building relationships. Here was a 175 00:08:26,631 --> 00:08:29,991 Speaker 1: bloody Murray. For people that don't realize the difference between 176 00:08:29,991 --> 00:08:31,631 Speaker 1: a Murray and a Kury. It's like if you wear 177 00:08:31,671 --> 00:08:35,631 Speaker 1: a blues jersey, we know where each other stands. So 178 00:08:35,711 --> 00:08:38,191 Speaker 1: my dad was a Queenslander, my mum was a Koury, 179 00:08:38,711 --> 00:08:41,871 Speaker 1: and his dad living in Redfern being voted in by 180 00:08:41,911 --> 00:08:44,831 Speaker 1: the people of New South Wales to represent them wouldn't 181 00:08:44,831 --> 00:08:45,951 Speaker 1: happen tod Asis. 182 00:08:45,671 --> 00:08:47,671 Speaker 2: Right, No, But I think my dad was a good 183 00:08:47,711 --> 00:08:48,391 Speaker 2: schemer on that. 184 00:08:48,431 --> 00:08:54,511 Speaker 1: For your dad, that's exactly it. Through relationship building and 185 00:08:54,551 --> 00:08:58,071 Speaker 1: then seeing you know, my dad obviously had a way 186 00:08:58,111 --> 00:08:59,871 Speaker 1: about him and that was through my granny Mook. 187 00:09:00,391 --> 00:09:03,271 Speaker 2: And it's also thing around the It was an approach 188 00:09:03,391 --> 00:09:05,911 Speaker 2: like I used to talk about Dad around you know, 189 00:09:05,991 --> 00:09:07,751 Speaker 2: kind of all the work that you do with uncle, 190 00:09:08,231 --> 00:09:11,231 Speaker 2: like City and some of the older grandfathers and that 191 00:09:11,271 --> 00:09:13,751 Speaker 2: sort of stuff around protecting and locking up all of that, 192 00:09:13,951 --> 00:09:15,791 Speaker 2: you know, nightcap and that sort of stuff. Wine one 193 00:09:15,831 --> 00:09:18,351 Speaker 2: from logging because it was happening really bad, and they 194 00:09:18,391 --> 00:09:20,431 Speaker 2: were talking about how they would just get deals from 195 00:09:20,511 --> 00:09:22,351 Speaker 2: like work out with this political party, what they were 196 00:09:22,351 --> 00:09:23,791 Speaker 2: going to give them this political party, and they would 197 00:09:23,791 --> 00:09:25,871 Speaker 2: play the Nationals and the Libs and label all against 198 00:09:25,911 --> 00:09:27,671 Speaker 2: each other, and they're just like whatever the best deal was. 199 00:09:27,711 --> 00:09:29,711 Speaker 2: And then they would talk to everyone, talked all the 200 00:09:29,711 --> 00:09:31,911 Speaker 2: white fellows shifting their votes around it. If you cared 201 00:09:31,911 --> 00:09:33,791 Speaker 2: about it, you got to do it this way. But 202 00:09:33,831 --> 00:09:35,871 Speaker 2: I just feel like we live in a different time now, 203 00:09:35,951 --> 00:09:39,311 Speaker 2: Like you can understand my uncle. Like I remember looking 204 00:09:39,311 --> 00:09:41,751 Speaker 2: back through photos. You know, Dad passed away like three 205 00:09:41,871 --> 00:09:45,231 Speaker 2: years ago now, and there's so many photos of like 206 00:09:45,231 --> 00:09:47,911 Speaker 2: your older sisters when they're kids, like dad and your dad, 207 00:09:47,911 --> 00:09:50,071 Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know, I remember being there. 208 00:09:50,111 --> 00:09:52,751 Speaker 2: I don't remember these photos taken. It's just like it 209 00:09:52,791 --> 00:09:54,591 Speaker 2: was wild the way they approached things, like they was 210 00:09:54,671 --> 00:09:57,831 Speaker 2: doing activism, but they were big strategic thinkers and they 211 00:09:57,831 --> 00:10:01,711 Speaker 2: had a way about bringing people together. And I think 212 00:10:01,791 --> 00:10:04,511 Speaker 2: it's like a lot of people a young mob asked 213 00:10:04,511 --> 00:10:06,031 Speaker 2: me like how did I get these jobs? I'm like, 214 00:10:06,711 --> 00:10:08,871 Speaker 2: I don't know what's nature or nurture because it was 215 00:10:08,991 --> 00:10:11,511 Speaker 2: just kind of what I knew how to do. And 216 00:10:11,551 --> 00:10:14,151 Speaker 2: then I don't know, I've never applied for a job 217 00:10:14,191 --> 00:10:16,271 Speaker 2: in my life. I've just you know, kind of worked 218 00:10:16,271 --> 00:10:19,231 Speaker 2: through thinking about what mob want to do, how we 219 00:10:19,591 --> 00:10:22,911 Speaker 2: want to move forward. And you know, I now know 220 00:10:23,871 --> 00:10:25,271 Speaker 2: that I get a lot of that from my dad, 221 00:10:25,431 --> 00:10:28,311 Speaker 2: but I didn't really fully know until like late, you know, 222 00:10:28,311 --> 00:10:29,271 Speaker 2: in the last few years. 223 00:10:29,311 --> 00:10:33,791 Speaker 1: Really, So it's community really that drives you. Yeah, motivates 224 00:10:33,831 --> 00:10:38,111 Speaker 1: you in terms of where you feel that you can 225 00:10:38,231 --> 00:10:39,551 Speaker 1: best support. 226 00:10:40,151 --> 00:10:43,511 Speaker 2: It's also where you know, how you're saying, how like 227 00:10:43,631 --> 00:10:45,711 Speaker 2: this idea around how you grew up, Like I grew 228 00:10:45,791 --> 00:10:49,231 Speaker 2: up in Lismore, like you know, big we were poor, 229 00:10:49,271 --> 00:10:51,671 Speaker 2: but I don't think I realized until we were like 230 00:10:53,311 --> 00:10:55,311 Speaker 2: you know, kids were talking about going to university and 231 00:10:55,351 --> 00:10:57,711 Speaker 2: then I seeing how much it costs, must like you 232 00:10:57,751 --> 00:10:58,711 Speaker 2: can freaking afford that? 233 00:10:58,951 --> 00:11:02,191 Speaker 1: Like what are you doing? Oh, going on a holiday? Right? 234 00:11:02,271 --> 00:11:05,671 Speaker 1: People would say, Oh, we're going to go to wherever Bali, Fiji, 235 00:11:06,191 --> 00:11:08,391 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking to myself, Oh, my god, we've never 236 00:11:08,431 --> 00:11:11,071 Speaker 1: been on a plane. Does it well, rich, Yes, they've 237 00:11:11,071 --> 00:11:14,431 Speaker 1: got a passport. We didn't even have birth certificate. Sis. Yeah. 238 00:11:14,551 --> 00:11:16,831 Speaker 1: I don't know why my mom didn't register our births. 239 00:11:17,391 --> 00:11:18,991 Speaker 1: And when I think about it now, I can only 240 00:11:18,991 --> 00:11:21,391 Speaker 1: assume that it was to protect us from being taken. 241 00:11:21,511 --> 00:11:22,911 Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot of that as well. 242 00:11:23,031 --> 00:11:26,751 Speaker 1: Ninety ninety six my birth certificate was registered and that's 243 00:11:26,751 --> 00:11:28,071 Speaker 1: when we need to pass port to go over to 244 00:11:28,071 --> 00:11:34,271 Speaker 1: old and dance. My dad actually, right up until the 245 00:11:34,391 --> 00:11:39,951 Speaker 1: day passed was still working behind the microphone. Yeah, I know. 246 00:11:40,951 --> 00:11:44,431 Speaker 1: February he was on air doing his let's talk show 247 00:11:44,911 --> 00:11:49,551 Speaker 1: on NINEFM for the best Country music and Murray Music. 248 00:11:49,871 --> 00:11:53,591 Speaker 1: And then he passed in April. Like he he literally 249 00:11:53,831 --> 00:11:57,511 Speaker 1: was of service to his community. It felt so fast, 250 00:11:57,791 --> 00:12:00,711 Speaker 1: I know, I know, But do you think you can 251 00:12:00,751 --> 00:12:02,311 Speaker 1: do this for the rest of your life? Like he's 252 00:12:02,311 --> 00:12:05,511 Speaker 1: the longevity in this work that you do. 253 00:12:05,511 --> 00:12:08,311 Speaker 2: You know. How I feel about this is like I 254 00:12:08,311 --> 00:12:10,191 Speaker 2: don't care if I don't get paid to do this 255 00:12:10,351 --> 00:12:12,751 Speaker 2: or not. This is what I'm gonna do. And I 256 00:12:12,791 --> 00:12:15,471 Speaker 2: think it goes back to it's like what is the 257 00:12:15,511 --> 00:12:18,311 Speaker 2: actualization and who you are as the First Nations, as 258 00:12:18,311 --> 00:12:20,231 Speaker 2: an Aboriginal woman, as a whige of a wire woman, 259 00:12:20,911 --> 00:12:23,231 Speaker 2: Like there's a part of you know, who we are 260 00:12:23,311 --> 00:12:27,111 Speaker 2: as whigeal Whi women is like we are law makers 261 00:12:27,511 --> 00:12:29,631 Speaker 2: and men were law enforces and there's a role here 262 00:12:29,631 --> 00:12:32,231 Speaker 2: around how we think about strategies and like you know, 263 00:12:32,311 --> 00:12:36,391 Speaker 2: culturally clever people came from our clan and like you know, 264 00:12:36,511 --> 00:12:40,191 Speaker 2: we are five people bring people together across the well Bungelung, 265 00:12:40,271 --> 00:12:42,511 Speaker 2: but you can bear nations as well. There was so 266 00:12:42,631 --> 00:12:45,791 Speaker 2: much interconnection, like you know, we talk about Bunnia festivals 267 00:12:45,791 --> 00:12:47,591 Speaker 2: and that sort of stuff and those song lines, like 268 00:12:48,431 --> 00:12:51,111 Speaker 2: that's some really strong politics in that country. And even 269 00:12:51,111 --> 00:12:54,311 Speaker 2: when I think like people here from people like Honey Lilla, 270 00:12:54,471 --> 00:12:56,671 Speaker 2: like Honey Mary Graham and stuff like that, and just 271 00:12:56,751 --> 00:12:59,431 Speaker 2: like everything they say about politics, like you've heard this 272 00:12:59,471 --> 00:13:02,151 Speaker 2: story before, but like this is so right for this 273 00:13:02,231 --> 00:13:06,391 Speaker 2: time right now. And I just feel like, you know, 274 00:13:07,671 --> 00:13:12,511 Speaker 2: when I grew up, I never had any negative sense 275 00:13:12,551 --> 00:13:15,231 Speaker 2: of identity around who I was. And it's an aboriginal girl. 276 00:13:15,711 --> 00:13:19,471 Speaker 2: I just never like we didn't have money. Yes, we 277 00:13:19,511 --> 00:13:21,991 Speaker 2: grew up on like in housing commissions stuff like that. 278 00:13:22,031 --> 00:13:22,551 Speaker 2: We had fire. 279 00:13:22,911 --> 00:13:25,271 Speaker 1: So did everyone else up in you exactly that had. 280 00:13:25,311 --> 00:13:29,791 Speaker 2: You know, well, no, that's it. And so I was 281 00:13:29,831 --> 00:13:33,471 Speaker 2: just like when I was thinking about, you know, I 282 00:13:33,551 --> 00:13:35,071 Speaker 2: gotta go to university and get a job, and I 283 00:13:35,151 --> 00:13:36,751 Speaker 2: was like, wait, that's not a pathway for me. So 284 00:13:36,791 --> 00:13:38,351 Speaker 2: I'm like looking at a lot of what are my 285 00:13:38,391 --> 00:13:41,071 Speaker 2: aunties and uncle's doing. I remember Annie Bertha Kapinne pulling 286 00:13:41,071 --> 00:13:43,111 Speaker 2: me into the Neundia Aboriginal Health Council and I was 287 00:13:43,151 --> 00:13:46,711 Speaker 2: like fifteen or sixteen at that point, going around doing minutes, 288 00:13:46,751 --> 00:13:49,991 Speaker 2: sending them. We went around ever in New South Wales 289 00:13:50,031 --> 00:13:52,751 Speaker 2: to their communities. Then people forget how big the optional 290 00:13:52,791 --> 00:13:56,711 Speaker 2: population is in northern Eastela. It's massive. And I just 291 00:13:57,231 --> 00:14:00,431 Speaker 2: I remember learning being like, are you serious, like this 292 00:14:01,031 --> 00:14:04,711 Speaker 2: blot didn't even finish primary school and they started the 293 00:14:04,751 --> 00:14:08,391 Speaker 2: health service. Yeah, hell yeah, and just thinking about, well, 294 00:14:08,391 --> 00:14:10,991 Speaker 2: I don't need to freaking go to university because I 295 00:14:11,031 --> 00:14:12,311 Speaker 2: can do this. Yeah. 296 00:14:12,351 --> 00:14:15,271 Speaker 1: And I love the fact that we had people that 297 00:14:16,191 --> 00:14:20,951 Speaker 1: kind of showed us then led by example within our community. 298 00:14:21,111 --> 00:14:22,911 Speaker 1: Dad was a saying why didn't you go to university? 299 00:14:22,911 --> 00:14:24,911 Speaker 1: For go work your way up? And I know all 300 00:14:24,951 --> 00:14:26,991 Speaker 1: your friends where we looking for a job and you'll 301 00:14:27,031 --> 00:14:29,511 Speaker 1: already be earning more money than he was right. Yeah, 302 00:14:30,271 --> 00:14:38,471 Speaker 1: he was usually always right Dad. It's just what I 303 00:14:38,511 --> 00:14:41,911 Speaker 1: was going to ask, is the election now we've kind 304 00:14:41,991 --> 00:14:45,271 Speaker 1: of a new chapter for the next four years. Anyways, 305 00:14:45,271 --> 00:14:48,311 Speaker 1: there's a new chapter. Do you feel that there's going 306 00:14:48,391 --> 00:14:51,511 Speaker 1: to be I don't know a shift, just the fact 307 00:14:51,511 --> 00:14:55,031 Speaker 1: that Albernezi just got in again. There's a lot that's 308 00:14:55,111 --> 00:14:57,591 Speaker 1: kind of happening or kind of brewing underneath the surface. 309 00:14:58,071 --> 00:14:59,751 Speaker 1: Has a lot of hatred, a lot of discrimination, a 310 00:14:59,751 --> 00:15:03,551 Speaker 1: lot of racism. It's rearing its ugly head again in Australia, 311 00:15:03,671 --> 00:15:07,311 Speaker 1: conceal over social media with an Zac Day and beautiful honey, Joy, 312 00:15:07,391 --> 00:15:10,991 Speaker 1: Mirth Murphy, you know, and the Melbourne storms now saying 313 00:15:11,031 --> 00:15:12,911 Speaker 1: that it was an administrative error. 314 00:15:12,911 --> 00:15:12,991 Speaker 2: Like. 315 00:15:14,511 --> 00:15:18,071 Speaker 1: Literally an administrative error that they miscommunicated to any Joy 316 00:15:18,111 --> 00:15:19,951 Speaker 1: that they did want her to do it, but they 317 00:15:19,951 --> 00:15:22,391 Speaker 1: were going to change your time. So they're back pedaling 318 00:15:22,431 --> 00:15:25,431 Speaker 1: now right because of the backlash. But even the fact 319 00:15:25,431 --> 00:15:28,391 Speaker 1: that the Abasginal Health Service cut the funding their partnership, 320 00:15:28,991 --> 00:15:31,911 Speaker 1: so financially it's hit the Melbourne stone on where it 321 00:15:31,991 --> 00:15:34,591 Speaker 1: hurts and now they're back pedaling. So there's a lot 322 00:15:34,591 --> 00:15:37,471 Speaker 1: going on in this country right now. What are some 323 00:15:37,551 --> 00:15:40,031 Speaker 1: of the kind of positives like what keeps you going, 324 00:15:40,791 --> 00:15:43,311 Speaker 1: what inspis, what motivates you, what gets you out of 325 00:15:43,311 --> 00:15:46,031 Speaker 1: bed despite all of the other things that kind of 326 00:15:46,671 --> 00:15:49,151 Speaker 1: either make you feel exhausted or even a little bit. 327 00:15:50,871 --> 00:15:54,231 Speaker 1: I don't know. Sometimes I just feel like we got 328 00:15:54,231 --> 00:15:54,831 Speaker 1: to keep doing this. 329 00:15:55,791 --> 00:15:57,271 Speaker 2: Yeah, We've got to keep doing this, but. 330 00:15:57,751 --> 00:15:59,711 Speaker 1: No negotiable coming from our families. 331 00:15:59,791 --> 00:16:00,951 Speaker 2: Coming from our families. 332 00:16:01,271 --> 00:16:03,991 Speaker 1: I think it's like, do we got to mark which again, 333 00:16:04,071 --> 00:16:08,711 Speaker 1: this is my kids forty degree heat, Mum, yes you do. 334 00:16:10,471 --> 00:16:13,231 Speaker 1: Just get the little I've got the trolley thing, you know, 335 00:16:13,271 --> 00:16:15,951 Speaker 1: the beach things, buggies I carry the kids. 336 00:16:17,031 --> 00:16:20,031 Speaker 2: Can go for a swim after. But you know what 337 00:16:20,111 --> 00:16:25,231 Speaker 2: I think is and the referendum was also bad. 338 00:16:25,231 --> 00:16:26,591 Speaker 1: I don't think that's what I mean. 339 00:16:26,631 --> 00:16:30,671 Speaker 2: This is still yeah, And I think where I'm at 340 00:16:30,711 --> 00:16:33,271 Speaker 2: right now because we've just moved out to start a 341 00:16:33,351 --> 00:16:37,431 Speaker 2: First Nations campaigning and movement building organization, and you know, 342 00:16:37,471 --> 00:16:39,791 Speaker 2: there was a lot of understanding what's happened in the 343 00:16:39,831 --> 00:16:42,231 Speaker 2: last election and where which way that was headed, and 344 00:16:42,271 --> 00:16:44,231 Speaker 2: where we came from the referendum. Just be like, we 345 00:16:44,271 --> 00:16:48,271 Speaker 2: need to do this campaigning and how we fight for 346 00:16:48,391 --> 00:16:51,431 Speaker 2: justice on our own terms, not just responding to what 347 00:16:51,711 --> 00:16:55,151 Speaker 2: a government or a political leader or egos are asking 348 00:16:55,271 --> 00:16:58,631 Speaker 2: us to respond to. And I think for me, I 349 00:16:58,831 --> 00:17:01,711 Speaker 2: have I haven't actually talked about this publicly before, but 350 00:17:02,431 --> 00:17:05,951 Speaker 2: I had a lot like I consume campaigns and like 351 00:17:06,151 --> 00:17:08,151 Speaker 2: a campaign all the time. I've won lots and lots 352 00:17:08,151 --> 00:17:12,871 Speaker 2: of campaigns understanding how you win. And the reality was 353 00:17:12,911 --> 00:17:14,751 Speaker 2: is that the referendum was lost at the beginning of 354 00:17:14,751 --> 00:17:18,231 Speaker 2: the year of the referendum, and it was this moment 355 00:17:18,391 --> 00:17:20,711 Speaker 2: of people are going to come for me saying this, 356 00:17:21,151 --> 00:17:24,391 Speaker 2: but it was this moment of saying, like, why are 357 00:17:24,471 --> 00:17:27,871 Speaker 2: we doing this? Like six months out from the referendum, 358 00:17:27,951 --> 00:17:30,831 Speaker 2: the campaigning was redlining and people are saying that right now, 359 00:17:31,231 --> 00:17:34,471 Speaker 2: But it's just like, but why didn't you stop the referendum? 360 00:17:34,471 --> 00:17:36,711 Speaker 2: The Machinery Act hadn't been pushed forward, and it's all 361 00:17:36,751 --> 00:17:39,071 Speaker 2: about egos, like we're gonna get there. But also there 362 00:17:39,151 --> 00:17:41,191 Speaker 2: was such a disconnect that we needed to bring in 363 00:17:41,231 --> 00:17:45,871 Speaker 2: all these non Indigenous campaign experts who understood how to 364 00:17:45,911 --> 00:17:49,991 Speaker 2: win campaigns. And that's like true on certain types of campaigns, 365 00:17:50,191 --> 00:17:51,991 Speaker 2: but the reality is it's very different to make the 366 00:17:52,031 --> 00:17:55,071 Speaker 2: case for First Nations justice and the right space holders 367 00:17:55,071 --> 00:17:57,311 Speaker 2: of this land and that requires and you would know 368 00:17:57,351 --> 00:17:59,231 Speaker 2: this in terms of the way that you know, like 369 00:17:59,391 --> 00:18:01,791 Speaker 2: you know, as a young campaigner, your dad would ask 370 00:18:01,831 --> 00:18:03,071 Speaker 2: me to come in and be on the radio station. 371 00:18:03,111 --> 00:18:04,511 Speaker 2: He'd put me up and ask me a million different 372 00:18:04,551 --> 00:18:07,071 Speaker 2: questions about why that felt a different way or why 373 00:18:07,111 --> 00:18:09,791 Speaker 2: we'd made this political decision. You're just testing you all 374 00:18:09,831 --> 00:18:13,191 Speaker 2: the time and understanding the reality that we exist in 375 00:18:13,431 --> 00:18:18,031 Speaker 2: like this country. It's not a rejection of First Nations people, 376 00:18:18,231 --> 00:18:20,871 Speaker 2: but you can put the constitution aside. People feel really 377 00:18:20,871 --> 00:18:24,031 Speaker 2: conservative about changing the constitution and that's something that we 378 00:18:24,071 --> 00:18:25,871 Speaker 2: need to understand and we've unpacked it with a lot 379 00:18:25,871 --> 00:18:28,391 Speaker 2: of more because it's not just about a rejection of us, 380 00:18:28,391 --> 00:18:30,631 Speaker 2: because there's a lot of trauma in a national rejection 381 00:18:30,711 --> 00:18:32,591 Speaker 2: and how much I don't think we talk about how 382 00:18:32,671 --> 00:18:35,391 Speaker 2: violent that campaign was. We kind of just brush it 383 00:18:35,471 --> 00:18:37,711 Speaker 2: under the rug. And we've been having those conversations in 384 00:18:37,751 --> 00:18:41,231 Speaker 2: community around what actually happened. But the reality is there 385 00:18:41,271 --> 00:18:46,951 Speaker 2: is a way to persuade people in how we seek 386 00:18:47,071 --> 00:18:50,351 Speaker 2: justice for ourselves, and that is around not seating the 387 00:18:50,351 --> 00:18:53,191 Speaker 2: moral high ground. It's about having the right messages at 388 00:18:53,231 --> 00:18:55,471 Speaker 2: the front and the people who are talking from community 389 00:18:55,471 --> 00:18:58,271 Speaker 2: and talking with authority. And also the fact that we 390 00:18:58,271 --> 00:19:01,191 Speaker 2: can't step out on political campaigns if our communities don't 391 00:19:01,191 --> 00:19:03,871 Speaker 2: know what the campaign is about, because whether it's a 392 00:19:03,871 --> 00:19:06,591 Speaker 2: good idea or not, you have to understand and hold 393 00:19:06,591 --> 00:19:10,071 Speaker 2: empathy for the amount of government not just failures, but 394 00:19:10,191 --> 00:19:13,471 Speaker 2: outright harm that has been done to our governments by 395 00:19:13,591 --> 00:19:16,591 Speaker 2: successive governments on purpose. And so when you come out 396 00:19:16,591 --> 00:19:19,151 Speaker 2: with a government program and you understand how our communities 397 00:19:19,191 --> 00:19:21,751 Speaker 2: react to it, like part of it is a trauma response, 398 00:19:21,791 --> 00:19:24,031 Speaker 2: like is this what do we lose if we're going 399 00:19:24,071 --> 00:19:27,591 Speaker 2: to gain this thing? But also it never feels like 400 00:19:27,671 --> 00:19:29,711 Speaker 2: you don't get anything for free, and so like all 401 00:19:29,711 --> 00:19:31,631 Speaker 2: the rest of this come to catch to this, Yeah, 402 00:19:31,671 --> 00:19:33,471 Speaker 2: that's it, no, but this is how people feel, right, 403 00:19:34,031 --> 00:19:36,591 Speaker 2: And so when we were talking to people in the referendum, 404 00:19:36,671 --> 00:19:38,591 Speaker 2: thing that really made me feel no good was just 405 00:19:38,711 --> 00:19:42,031 Speaker 2: like so many community members just didn't think it was 406 00:19:42,071 --> 00:19:45,031 Speaker 2: a silver bullet, but they would say, and we had 407 00:19:45,071 --> 00:19:48,071 Speaker 2: conversations right across the country, if we lose this, we're 408 00:19:48,111 --> 00:19:50,991 Speaker 2: going backwards, and there's a reality within that. But I 409 00:19:51,071 --> 00:19:54,511 Speaker 2: just don't think people understood how far the vote was 410 00:19:54,551 --> 00:19:56,951 Speaker 2: going to go. But also the other thing was is 411 00:19:56,991 --> 00:20:01,191 Speaker 2: that this kind of reign of terror of like the 412 00:20:01,591 --> 00:20:07,031 Speaker 2: amount of racism acts on our families, attacks on our communities, 413 00:20:07,151 --> 00:20:09,671 Speaker 2: the winebacks, the attacks on cultural heritage, they've ripped the 414 00:20:09,791 --> 00:20:12,511 Speaker 2: legislation out of the wa Parliament for cultural heritage protection 415 00:20:13,231 --> 00:20:16,231 Speaker 2: like that. That's if you're a people that believe that 416 00:20:16,271 --> 00:20:18,351 Speaker 2: you belong to this land and you're going to rip 417 00:20:18,351 --> 00:20:20,791 Speaker 2: out the legislation that protects some minor part of it. 418 00:20:21,631 --> 00:20:23,871 Speaker 2: There's just there's so much harm being done by that. 419 00:20:23,911 --> 00:20:27,591 Speaker 2: And we didn't have a protection mechanism and a defensive campaign. 420 00:20:28,111 --> 00:20:31,551 Speaker 2: We didn't push back, you know. And I say this 421 00:20:31,871 --> 00:20:33,471 Speaker 2: as well, it's not just about what the far right 422 00:20:33,551 --> 00:20:35,671 Speaker 2: was saying and people like just In Price and Warren Mundane. 423 00:20:36,591 --> 00:20:39,431 Speaker 2: It's about the things that at the Prime Minister said. 424 00:20:39,791 --> 00:20:42,031 Speaker 2: You remember, like the first one of the first things 425 00:20:42,031 --> 00:20:43,671 Speaker 2: that he said at the beginning of the year when 426 00:20:43,671 --> 00:20:46,591 Speaker 2: there was a protest around Treaty or Voice which comes 427 00:20:46,631 --> 00:20:50,031 Speaker 2: first in in Victoria, he said, they're just activists making 428 00:20:50,071 --> 00:20:52,471 Speaker 2: noise something to that effect. But he dismissed them. He 429 00:20:52,551 --> 00:20:55,431 Speaker 2: dismissed in community that there could be a different opinion 430 00:20:55,671 --> 00:20:57,471 Speaker 2: when we hadn't had a proper yarn in the country 431 00:20:57,471 --> 00:20:59,991 Speaker 2: about it. So people were having their opinions and this 432 00:21:00,071 --> 00:21:02,551 Speaker 2: figurehead shut them down and that's not the way that 433 00:21:02,591 --> 00:21:04,431 Speaker 2: we do things, and so it's just going to create 434 00:21:04,471 --> 00:21:07,471 Speaker 2: more tension. The other part is there was a point 435 00:21:07,471 --> 00:21:09,391 Speaker 2: in the campaign where he came out and he said, look, 436 00:21:09,791 --> 00:21:13,311 Speaker 2: this isn't about racism. There has never been a campaign 437 00:21:13,351 --> 00:21:15,911 Speaker 2: about First Nations people in this land that has not 438 00:21:15,991 --> 00:21:19,111 Speaker 2: been about racism. It's always about racism. But the impact 439 00:21:19,111 --> 00:21:21,951 Speaker 2: of that is we couldn't have a conversation about racism. 440 00:21:22,031 --> 00:21:24,311 Speaker 2: And you can't talk about racism if you can't talk 441 00:21:24,311 --> 00:21:28,071 Speaker 2: about a displacement. And I'm sorry, you can't make basically 442 00:21:28,111 --> 00:21:31,271 Speaker 2: the case to Australian voters that there's some harm that 443 00:21:31,351 --> 00:21:33,311 Speaker 2: needs to be you know, there's some redress that has 444 00:21:33,351 --> 00:21:35,911 Speaker 2: to be happening. You have to tell the truth otherwise 445 00:21:35,911 --> 00:21:37,991 Speaker 2: our community don't believe you have the right solution. But 446 00:21:38,031 --> 00:21:40,391 Speaker 2: also this country doesn't believe that it needs to do anything. 447 00:21:40,591 --> 00:21:43,671 Speaker 1: So that's where I'm at right now, especially Victoria. Oh 448 00:21:43,751 --> 00:21:48,151 Speaker 1: use one example, You've got the Truth Telling Commission YURUK 449 00:21:48,711 --> 00:21:52,831 Speaker 1: and that's the first truth and justice kind of yeah, 450 00:21:53,431 --> 00:21:58,111 Speaker 1: it's the first public of commission in Australian history, right yeah. 451 00:21:59,031 --> 00:22:01,951 Speaker 1: But then they've got the treaty on the other side 452 00:22:02,591 --> 00:22:07,711 Speaker 1: and the first People's Assembly where hopefully and this is 453 00:22:07,751 --> 00:22:12,431 Speaker 1: from deadly professor, thanks to around Hunter, I just call 454 00:22:12,471 --> 00:22:16,151 Speaker 1: your sister. She's saying that with the recommendations handed down 455 00:22:16,191 --> 00:22:19,911 Speaker 1: from YURUK, they'll hand that to the treaty mob to 456 00:22:19,991 --> 00:22:23,071 Speaker 1: then implement. So I thought that was pretty deadly. And 457 00:22:23,111 --> 00:22:26,591 Speaker 1: then with Queensland when the Liberal government got in, the 458 00:22:26,631 --> 00:22:31,191 Speaker 1: Truth Commission was defunded immediately. So where to from here, Like, 459 00:22:31,551 --> 00:22:32,951 Speaker 1: what do you think is going to happen over the 460 00:22:32,951 --> 00:22:35,351 Speaker 1: next couple of years, What should we be doing, where 461 00:22:35,391 --> 00:22:38,391 Speaker 1: should we be focusing our energy? Maybe it could be 462 00:22:38,431 --> 00:22:40,511 Speaker 1: a message for a lot of our non indigenous listeners 463 00:22:41,111 --> 00:22:43,231 Speaker 1: that are listening. What would you say to them? How 464 00:22:43,271 --> 00:22:45,791 Speaker 1: can they? And I deliver training every day and I'm 465 00:22:45,791 --> 00:22:48,791 Speaker 1: having conversations with people like you and they always want 466 00:22:48,831 --> 00:22:49,991 Speaker 1: to know what can they do. 467 00:22:51,431 --> 00:22:53,511 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of opportunity, but there's a 468 00:22:53,511 --> 00:22:55,311 Speaker 2: lot of threats as well that are out there. I 469 00:22:55,351 --> 00:22:58,551 Speaker 2: think that when we talk about, you know, the first 470 00:22:58,631 --> 00:23:03,191 Speaker 2: victims of the referendum were the NT and Queensland based truth, 471 00:23:03,711 --> 00:23:06,911 Speaker 2: truth and treaty processes. Those being winened up wound up 472 00:23:06,991 --> 00:23:10,111 Speaker 2: is very significant. I think we have to think about 473 00:23:10,151 --> 00:23:12,271 Speaker 2: what has just happened in the last election, Like, yes, 474 00:23:12,791 --> 00:23:15,431 Speaker 2: the preference deals that happened, and it's not telling the 475 00:23:15,431 --> 00:23:17,591 Speaker 2: whole story. Labour only got thirty four percent of the vote, 476 00:23:17,591 --> 00:23:22,351 Speaker 2: but it's a significant win. But the opposition isn't coming 477 00:23:22,351 --> 00:23:25,471 Speaker 2: back anytime soon. The Greens, I think, will come back 478 00:23:25,511 --> 00:23:28,391 Speaker 2: because a lot of their preferences flowed to labor. But 479 00:23:28,471 --> 00:23:31,391 Speaker 2: the point is we have an outward majority of a 480 00:23:31,471 --> 00:23:34,751 Speaker 2: labor government that doesn't want to do anything ambitious. I 481 00:23:34,751 --> 00:23:36,871 Speaker 2: don't know if you've seen on election night. I think 482 00:23:36,871 --> 00:23:38,751 Speaker 2: it was the treasure of Jim Chalmer's got up and 483 00:23:38,791 --> 00:23:44,031 Speaker 2: he said, you know, we're focused on reconciliation and closing 484 00:23:44,111 --> 00:23:48,591 Speaker 2: the gap. Someone said today, like the amount of failure 485 00:23:48,631 --> 00:23:50,431 Speaker 2: is under closing the gap. Why do we still have 486 00:23:50,471 --> 00:23:52,831 Speaker 2: this thing? It has failed more than at Sick. At 487 00:23:52,831 --> 00:23:55,951 Speaker 2: Sick did more to benefit our communities than closing the gap. 488 00:23:55,991 --> 00:23:59,551 Speaker 2: It's not working because we're having this measly mouthed conversation 489 00:23:59,671 --> 00:24:02,431 Speaker 2: about closing the gap instead of talking about his report 490 00:24:02,471 --> 00:24:05,751 Speaker 2: every year on the systemic racism in the health service 491 00:24:05,791 --> 00:24:08,951 Speaker 2: and you know social services delivered by the state and 492 00:24:09,031 --> 00:24:12,351 Speaker 2: territory in federal governments. We're going backwards on lots of things. 493 00:24:13,231 --> 00:24:15,711 Speaker 2: The other thing I'd say is, like I always thought 494 00:24:15,711 --> 00:24:18,591 Speaker 2: within the referendum and the Voice de Parliament. Like I 495 00:24:18,631 --> 00:24:21,791 Speaker 2: campaigned against the original kind of constitutional recognition because I 496 00:24:21,831 --> 00:24:24,671 Speaker 2: was like, what is five words? Yeah, Like who cares 497 00:24:24,671 --> 00:24:26,831 Speaker 2: about five words in a constitution? But I did get 498 00:24:26,871 --> 00:24:29,071 Speaker 2: on board in the referendum campaign because I was like, Okay, 499 00:24:29,071 --> 00:24:31,351 Speaker 2: we're here, and I don't want blackfellows to lose, and 500 00:24:31,391 --> 00:24:34,791 Speaker 2: so for me, I'm all in. But I really believe 501 00:24:34,831 --> 00:24:37,151 Speaker 2: that we need mechanisms to talk to each other. We 502 00:24:37,191 --> 00:24:40,671 Speaker 2: need to stop centering government at the kind of center 503 00:24:40,711 --> 00:24:43,431 Speaker 2: of everything that we do. They're not the decision maker, 504 00:24:43,431 --> 00:24:45,271 Speaker 2: and we need to kind of think about the processes 505 00:24:45,271 --> 00:24:47,551 Speaker 2: around what does self determination look like, because you don't 506 00:24:47,591 --> 00:24:51,071 Speaker 2: need permission for self determination, you don't need permission to 507 00:24:51,271 --> 00:24:56,031 Speaker 2: enact your sovereignty. And so I think about actually post referendum, 508 00:24:56,071 --> 00:24:59,191 Speaker 2: you know, people saying reconciliation is dead. But I also 509 00:24:59,231 --> 00:25:02,991 Speaker 2: think this idea of just like appealing to white structures 510 00:25:03,031 --> 00:25:06,231 Speaker 2: of power is also kind of it doesn't work for us. 511 00:25:06,471 --> 00:25:09,191 Speaker 2: And there are ways that activism worked for us in 512 00:25:09,231 --> 00:25:11,711 Speaker 2: the kind of the you know, fifties and sixties when 513 00:25:11,711 --> 00:25:13,551 Speaker 2: we actually did win things and yes, the people got 514 00:25:13,551 --> 00:25:15,191 Speaker 2: flogged moored by the police, and that sort of stuff. 515 00:25:15,191 --> 00:25:18,591 Speaker 2: But we tangibly made gains in the eighties, we tangibly 516 00:25:18,631 --> 00:25:21,311 Speaker 2: made gains, and like we have been on this slow 517 00:25:21,431 --> 00:25:24,111 Speaker 2: kind of bleed backwards. And so for me, I'm just like, well, 518 00:25:24,191 --> 00:25:26,551 Speaker 2: let's use this moment of disruption and work out how 519 00:25:26,591 --> 00:25:30,911 Speaker 2: we go forward. But within that, I do think whatever 520 00:25:31,791 --> 00:25:37,351 Speaker 2: kind of whatever shape these treaty processes take, maybe they 521 00:25:37,391 --> 00:25:40,471 Speaker 2: take the process of just like service agreements. I don't 522 00:25:40,471 --> 00:25:42,311 Speaker 2: think that. I think the aspirations of our communities is 523 00:25:42,351 --> 00:25:44,471 Speaker 2: so much more. But if you end up in Victoria 524 00:25:44,511 --> 00:25:46,271 Speaker 2: in a space where all money that is for aberge 525 00:25:46,311 --> 00:25:48,031 Speaker 2: and torture and the people goes directly to us and 526 00:25:48,071 --> 00:25:51,671 Speaker 2: we make the decisions, you watch that gap close. So 527 00:25:51,711 --> 00:25:54,391 Speaker 2: I think there is there's a way in that we 528 00:25:54,431 --> 00:25:56,151 Speaker 2: have to And we now have a very funded far 529 00:25:56,271 --> 00:25:58,711 Speaker 2: right gener now just handed out money to the far right, 530 00:25:58,751 --> 00:26:00,951 Speaker 2: handed out money to advance Australia. We've got to get 531 00:26:01,031 --> 00:26:02,831 Speaker 2: our kind of ducks in order to push back on 532 00:26:02,871 --> 00:26:05,711 Speaker 2: this stuff. And it's not okay to just be silent 533 00:26:06,031 --> 00:26:10,671 Speaker 2: when football codes or you know, idiots are in booing 534 00:26:10,711 --> 00:26:13,271 Speaker 2: the welcome to country. Understand, Like that's not just a 535 00:26:13,311 --> 00:26:15,791 Speaker 2: cultural And I hate how people say this is like, oh, 536 00:26:15,831 --> 00:26:17,111 Speaker 2: this cultural will, we don't want to talk about it. 537 00:26:17,111 --> 00:26:20,391 Speaker 2: I'm like, this is racism. This is the racism and 538 00:26:20,511 --> 00:26:24,071 Speaker 2: basically setting the standards more. It's much more insidious than this, 539 00:26:24,231 --> 00:26:28,351 Speaker 2: Like what you're trying to do is actually remove Indigenous 540 00:26:28,431 --> 00:26:30,751 Speaker 2: rights in this country and understand that that's what they're doing. 541 00:26:30,951 --> 00:26:33,791 Speaker 2: The people mouthing off around Australia Day this year saying like, oh, 542 00:26:33,831 --> 00:26:37,551 Speaker 2: we voted against this, you can't have this treaty process, 543 00:26:37,671 --> 00:26:40,631 Speaker 2: Like this was never on the ballot. But Australians, like 544 00:26:40,951 --> 00:26:42,951 Speaker 2: you know, the far right, they think like we're going 545 00:26:42,991 --> 00:26:46,751 Speaker 2: to remove these rights. People don't understand that. You know, 546 00:26:46,951 --> 00:26:51,311 Speaker 2: the Queensland government is talking about ripping out different Native 547 00:26:51,351 --> 00:26:54,591 Speaker 2: toild negotiation WA government before they went to election, they said, 548 00:26:54,631 --> 00:26:57,111 Speaker 2: let's get rid of the right to negotiate. You know, 549 00:26:57,551 --> 00:27:00,631 Speaker 2: these are significant things. Sacred Sites Act in NT just 550 00:27:00,671 --> 00:27:03,311 Speaker 2: the other week being pulled up range of programs funding 551 00:27:03,791 --> 00:27:06,671 Speaker 2: all the amount of like moving our kids into adult 552 00:27:06,711 --> 00:27:09,711 Speaker 2: prisons that we're experienced like in the last couple of 553 00:27:09,711 --> 00:27:15,591 Speaker 2: weeks months. We need to kind of get our pushback 554 00:27:15,631 --> 00:27:17,951 Speaker 2: and our campaigns. We need to understand what we're asking 555 00:27:17,991 --> 00:27:21,231 Speaker 2: for it's not just what we're against because right now 556 00:27:21,311 --> 00:27:25,151 Speaker 2: the government, I guess they're not brave, they're not bold, 557 00:27:25,311 --> 00:27:27,711 Speaker 2: They we don't want to be ambitious on First Nations justice, 558 00:27:28,031 --> 00:27:30,071 Speaker 2: and so we have a very we need to think 559 00:27:30,071 --> 00:27:32,431 Speaker 2: about who we're appealing to in terms of like voters 560 00:27:32,431 --> 00:27:35,071 Speaker 2: in this country. Yes, six point two million people voted yes, 561 00:27:35,111 --> 00:27:37,751 Speaker 2: But I don't think all of those people are there 562 00:27:37,791 --> 00:27:40,111 Speaker 2: on when we think about like youth incarceration and what 563 00:27:40,151 --> 00:27:41,751 Speaker 2: does it mean for our kids that have been taken 564 00:27:41,751 --> 00:27:43,831 Speaker 2: away at the rate that they've been taken away. So 565 00:27:44,031 --> 00:27:45,671 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of re education that we 566 00:27:45,711 --> 00:27:48,071 Speaker 2: need to do and understand, Like it's not about the 567 00:27:48,111 --> 00:27:49,751 Speaker 2: same leaders that have been at the front, Like we 568 00:27:49,791 --> 00:27:51,911 Speaker 2: need to think about it different way, and we need 569 00:27:51,951 --> 00:27:54,191 Speaker 2: to show them and demonstrate that our communities are standing 570 00:27:54,231 --> 00:27:56,111 Speaker 2: up because we hold the moral high ground. This is 571 00:27:56,151 --> 00:27:59,431 Speaker 2: our land, it's still our land. And so I don't 572 00:27:59,471 --> 00:28:01,591 Speaker 2: know where this is going, but like I love it. 573 00:28:01,831 --> 00:28:05,791 Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone that's listening you agree that there's a 574 00:28:05,831 --> 00:28:08,991 Speaker 1: lot that they can take from this year and they 575 00:28:09,031 --> 00:28:11,751 Speaker 1: can make their own decisions and what they want to 576 00:28:11,751 --> 00:28:15,431 Speaker 1: do or what they what they're what are you interested 577 00:28:15,471 --> 00:28:17,711 Speaker 1: in what are you reading? Like? Can they can I 578 00:28:17,791 --> 00:28:20,191 Speaker 1: listen to a podcast? Is her book they should pick up? 579 00:28:20,431 --> 00:28:23,551 Speaker 1: What's some really tangible practical things before you given to. 580 00:28:23,751 --> 00:28:26,791 Speaker 2: A bunch of people over the last couple of weeks 581 00:28:26,871 --> 00:28:30,111 Speaker 2: is actually some readings by Ardie Mary Graham. Okay, I 582 00:28:30,151 --> 00:28:35,991 Speaker 2: love this and particularly thinking about the role of indigenous people, 583 00:28:36,031 --> 00:28:38,871 Speaker 2: of Aboriginal people and us as like runners and managers 584 00:28:38,911 --> 00:28:40,751 Speaker 2: of our own country and what is our kind of 585 00:28:40,911 --> 00:28:43,991 Speaker 2: politics and how how do we create power? And she 586 00:28:44,071 --> 00:28:48,351 Speaker 2: talks about our role as an indigenous person and talking 587 00:28:48,351 --> 00:28:52,951 Speaker 2: about how you know, it's just it's like she's called 588 00:28:53,031 --> 00:28:55,471 Speaker 2: like autonomous regard, like the idea that we have obligations 589 00:28:55,511 --> 00:28:57,871 Speaker 2: to our communities. But if you're an Aboriginal person that 590 00:28:57,871 --> 00:29:00,871 Speaker 2: grew up in country, then you accept that obligation, whether 591 00:29:00,911 --> 00:29:03,271 Speaker 2: that obligation is staying at the forefront of a political 592 00:29:03,271 --> 00:29:06,951 Speaker 2: campaign or looking after twenty babies like you play your 593 00:29:07,031 --> 00:29:09,311 Speaker 2: role with in community because we are collective, I think 594 00:29:09,671 --> 00:29:11,711 Speaker 2: globally we're in this space. And this is why this 595 00:29:11,751 --> 00:29:14,671 Speaker 2: appeals to me so much that like, read everything, watch 596 00:29:14,711 --> 00:29:18,351 Speaker 2: every video that she's in. She's our most amazing philosopher. 597 00:29:18,471 --> 00:29:21,071 Speaker 1: So doctor Mary grant for people don't know who is 598 00:29:21,071 --> 00:29:25,311 Speaker 1: an adjunct to social professor at the School of Political Science, 599 00:29:25,351 --> 00:29:29,671 Speaker 1: International Relations, Philosophy, and Psychology departments at uq A. Got 600 00:29:29,711 --> 00:29:33,791 Speaker 1: that right or yes, it's a mouthful. Aunt Mary has 601 00:29:33,831 --> 00:29:37,071 Speaker 1: been part of the Black Card for thirteen years and 602 00:29:37,111 --> 00:29:39,311 Speaker 1: a lot of people, about twenty three thousand people that 603 00:29:39,311 --> 00:29:42,231 Speaker 1: are Black Card training have had the privilege to either 604 00:29:42,271 --> 00:29:45,711 Speaker 1: be in person with her, be through the screen and 605 00:29:46,191 --> 00:29:50,671 Speaker 1: hear her talk about everything from autonomous regard to aberish 606 00:29:50,751 --> 00:29:54,591 Speaker 1: or logic. She has a paper that she's about to publish. 607 00:29:54,671 --> 00:29:58,711 Speaker 1: I had to look at it eldership and leadership, so 608 00:29:58,871 --> 00:30:00,791 Speaker 1: there's a lot there. I'll share something with you. 609 00:30:01,511 --> 00:30:04,431 Speaker 2: Yeah. No. Also, it's this peace right looking at this 610 00:30:04,631 --> 00:30:08,831 Speaker 2: craziness that's going over in the US and the rejection 611 00:30:08,951 --> 00:30:12,111 Speaker 2: of that style of politics within Australia. People are fearful 612 00:30:12,151 --> 00:30:14,711 Speaker 2: of that, fearful of the idea that Dutton could act 613 00:30:14,791 --> 00:30:17,071 Speaker 2: like Trump and destroy some of the things in the 614 00:30:17,071 --> 00:30:20,191 Speaker 2: places that we hold dear. But we need to think 615 00:30:20,231 --> 00:30:22,631 Speaker 2: about what political leadership is. And you know, people talk 616 00:30:22,751 --> 00:30:26,271 Speaker 2: like I'm a Marxist, I'm from the left, right wing, 617 00:30:26,351 --> 00:30:29,831 Speaker 2: I'm a populist or whatever, like listen and read Aarni 618 00:30:29,871 --> 00:30:34,151 Speaker 2: Mary Graham and think about Indigenous world views and understand 619 00:30:34,231 --> 00:30:37,711 Speaker 2: that we created some of the most successful social orders 620 00:30:37,711 --> 00:30:41,231 Speaker 2: and political contexts in this world and they still exist. 621 00:30:41,311 --> 00:30:44,231 Speaker 2: And like, I feel like if not indigenous people understood 622 00:30:44,271 --> 00:30:46,791 Speaker 2: that from our elders, then they would see like the 623 00:30:46,911 --> 00:30:49,831 Speaker 2: pathway to solving the climate crisis, to thinking about the 624 00:30:49,951 --> 00:30:53,271 Speaker 2: end of capitalism, that indigenous peoples have the solution to this. 625 00:30:53,591 --> 00:30:55,911 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, what an amazing way to finish up this. 626 00:30:56,031 --> 00:30:59,111 Speaker 1: Youn Annie Mary Graham. You got to google her. She's 627 00:30:59,151 --> 00:31:02,391 Speaker 1: a combomary woman living on her country, on the Golden 628 00:31:02,471 --> 00:31:05,711 Speaker 1: chris on Jugen Beer country that you can bear language 629 00:31:05,711 --> 00:31:10,031 Speaker 1: speaking group, I should say. But also there's a lot 630 00:31:10,071 --> 00:31:12,551 Speaker 1: there that I could put in the show notes. With 631 00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:15,151 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that Anny Mary has published. 632 00:31:15,391 --> 00:31:18,991 Speaker 1: One thing that she says is that Aboriginal people ran 633 00:31:19,031 --> 00:31:22,031 Speaker 1: an entire country not that long ago, and we ran 634 00:31:22,111 --> 00:31:25,871 Speaker 1: this country without any outside interference, without the need for prisons, 635 00:31:25,911 --> 00:31:30,111 Speaker 1: police or armies. We never invaded our neighbors in our 636 00:31:30,151 --> 00:31:33,191 Speaker 1: whole history of living here. And you refer to us 637 00:31:33,231 --> 00:31:38,151 Speaker 1: as a primitive savage hunter gatherer society, and who's invading her. 638 00:31:38,551 --> 00:31:41,471 Speaker 1: So look on that note says it's been so deadly 639 00:31:41,631 --> 00:31:44,031 Speaker 1: to yarn with you. We'll do a part two because 640 00:31:44,031 --> 00:31:46,071 Speaker 1: then we can't get straight into what does this first 641 00:31:46,151 --> 00:31:49,151 Speaker 1: nation's climate justice mean and look like? And I'm sure 642 00:31:49,151 --> 00:31:53,351 Speaker 1: there's a podcast in that, yes, too Deadly. Look all 643 00:31:53,431 --> 00:31:57,231 Speaker 1: you love listening and watching so much to take out 644 00:31:57,271 --> 00:31:58,751 Speaker 1: of this yarn, and I'm going to leave it with 645 00:31:58,831 --> 00:32:02,351 Speaker 1: you to ponder with and hopefully continue your learning and 646 00:32:02,391 --> 00:32:04,671 Speaker 1: all the different things that we've been yarning about. Read 647 00:32:04,711 --> 00:32:07,911 Speaker 1: the show notes, have a look what any mayor is doing, 648 00:32:08,191 --> 00:32:11,191 Speaker 1: or even the black card dot com dodau you can 649 00:32:11,271 --> 00:32:13,311 Speaker 1: see what she does through the work that we do 650 00:32:13,711 --> 00:32:16,551 Speaker 1: of rolling out training across the country. So thank you, 651 00:32:16,631 --> 00:32:19,911 Speaker 1: my sister having for come back until next time. By 652 00:32:20,031 --> 00:32:24,751 Speaker 1: for now. If you'd like any more info on today's guest, 653 00:32:24,871 --> 00:32:29,831 Speaker 1: please visit our show notes in the episode description. A 654 00:32:29,871 --> 00:32:32,671 Speaker 1: big shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies 655 00:32:32,671 --> 00:32:36,311 Speaker 1: who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast. Your 656 00:32:36,351 --> 00:32:39,591 Speaker 1: feedback means the world. You can rate and review the 657 00:32:39,591 --> 00:32:42,711 Speaker 1: podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to our 658 00:32:42,751 --> 00:32:45,791 Speaker 1: socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line. We'd 659 00:32:45,871 --> 00:32:49,071 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman podcast 660 00:32:49,231 --> 00:32:55,351 Speaker 1: is produced by Clint Curtis