WEBVTT - S05E08 | It's Layered | Delve Deeper Into.. Perfectionism! | Season Finale 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.560 I'm always always sir, be careful. 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.960 Love those umboo. 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:28.960 Let We'll use your head. They will tear you lack 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:30.160 a purple talk. 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:36.960 Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no. 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.600 Hi. I'm Amanda and I'm Rumby. 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:43.560 Welcome to its lay It. 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.800 We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:48.600 years ago when we were in high school. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.200 We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.160 and everything else under the sun. 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:59.680 Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:08.240 Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:12.360 Hello everybody, and welcome to a brand new episode of 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.600 our podcast, It's lad Podcast. How are you doing, Amanda, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:18.600 Hi and me, I'm good. 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:20.920 How are you? I'm so hyped. I don't even know. 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:21.960 I'm just really hype. 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.520 We hype in this building. It's quite interesting that you're 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.759 hype because we're actually leading towards Christmas, and I've actually 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.240 been highly stressful trying to think of everything that needs 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:36.480 to be done. Typically, if anyone knows me, I'm actually 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:41.160 a huge Christmas girlie. I love Christmas. I typically like 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:45.200 go into decorating as early as possible, and also, but 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.720 this year I feel like I am lagging behind, and 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.520 I kind of feel like I'm failing at my essence. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:55.280 The essence of Woo room be is you know. So yeah, 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.520 it's been quite interesting for me. But other than that, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.160 I'm doing all right. I'm doing alright. And for you 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:03.320 your hype, life's good. 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.880 Yeah, I'm just hype, not tied to Christmas or anything. 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.000 I mean, by the time this episode is, Christmas will 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:11.680 be a distant memory. I'm drinking. 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:13.720 But sorry. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.000 People get so like, I love Christmas, but I don't know, 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.680 like I'm not You're not a Christmas Yeah, And I 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.880 think that's it's like being a desk for a victim 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.799 of like Christmas also comes with Okay, that's the time 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.880 I work hard. Everyone's gone, time I get my paper, 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.480 like you know what I mean. Like, so I find 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.120 it hard because it's like and I think we talked 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.280 about this our Surviving Desperate episode where it's like Christmas 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.160 for me is a time when all my family is 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:45.440 gathered and that doesn't necessarily always tie in with actual christinies. 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.400 And I think also being here with like so multicultural, 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.919 I'm close to people who don't celebrate Christmas, like Chinese 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.480 New Year, Lunar New year is huge here, so it's like, 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:00.000 then what is Christmas? You know what I mean? 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:01.600 Yeah, I get you. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.760 It's like, yeah, it's like when you stund some people 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.240 who have a different version of Christmas, then you start 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.720 to think, oh, okay, there are. 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.080 The things, Yeah, there are other things. Yeah, and the 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.040 Western world we really emphasize it. But yeah, I think 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:16.880 for me it's because since I was a kid, it 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.320 was always a big thing. Yeah what you said, Yeah, 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:20.080 it's a big deal. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.640 So it's yea zim trust me. It's such a huge 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.320 Christmas box the box, like I mean the last year 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.960 when we went Hamburg together, I mean, can I let 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.400 the people know that this Christmas will be in Australia together. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.720 So maybe that's why I'm hyped because I'm hosting this. 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:43.480 Yeah I do, I do plan to be. Maybe I'm 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:44.960 the Christmas girly for you. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.760 Okay, that's that's what's something, that's what that makes sense, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.640 Thank you, thank you very much. But yeah, this is 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.280 our season finale, Amanda. We've actually come to the end 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.720 of season five. I feel like two seconds ago we're 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.480 saying welcome to season five. We can't believe it's season five. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.080 And now We've hit the finale of season five. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:08.119 And so much happened this season. Our fiftieth milestone happened. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.560 I mean this this season had the most guests we've 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.480 always have done in the last season. Yeah, so it's 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.640 like just being giving. This season has just been giving. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.640 I really have been feeling our Bobby era. Why reckon 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.799 we even talked about Bobby era always down the Bobby 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:28.520 Era track. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.240 Yeah, it's a great question because I never thought I 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.320 was a Bobby girl. I've never really been a Bobby girl. Actually, 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.920 Amanda fun Fact got me my first ever Bobby. Did 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.200 I say this already on the podcast. I never had 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.400 a Bobby like growing up, but and I was like, oh, 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.080 I never even go to Bobby. And then Amanda was like, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.400 all right, here you go, here's your Bobby, your friend. 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.080 We really, I guess both of us watched the Bobby movie, 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:55.920 as we've said in previous episodes, and watching that film, 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.400 it was so different to the Bobby we grew up knowing. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:03.279 You know, the Bobby of affection. You know, white, skinny, 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.599 long hair that looks nothing like my hair, you know, 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.560 things like that. We grew up in that era. But 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.600 there's a very crucial moment in the movie spoiler alert 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:19.880 if you've not already watched it, where Gloria played by 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:25.479 America Ferrara, has this monologue and she's talking about how 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:27.840 exhausting it is to be a woman. And I'll just 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.400 quote like one or two lines from her speech which 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:35.120 really resonated with me. She says, like, we have to 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:41.200 always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong. Imagine, 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.240 and she goes on this old spiel. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:48.440 Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely share the monologue on our socials 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.960 when the episode drops. For those of you haven't seen it. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.800 Yeah, but just one of the lines, you have to 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.560 be thin but not too thin, and you can never 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.760 say you want to be thin. So this you're left 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.240 in this sort of I don't know what do you 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:03.600 call it? 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.359 Like do you have to say I want to be healthy? 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:06.440 And what is healthy? 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.400 Yes, it's so confusing. So I think that when you 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.560 spoke to us, because it really ties in with perfectionism, 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.560 which is something that you know, we'll go more into 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.200 depth with this episode, but it's really just like, man, 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.080 there's no winning. It's a conundrum. Actually that's what I 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.279 was looking It's a conundrum because you have to be 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.480 thin but not too thin. You can't say you want 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.080 to be thin, because you have to say you want 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.640 to be healthy. But what is healthy and what does 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.200 being healthy look like? And how do you. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.359 Yeah, and then you always have to be part of 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.080 the sisterhood, she said, like you always have to root 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.839 for other women, you know. And it's like, yeah, it's true. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.880 And it's a dichotomy, right, like, yeah, you want to 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.560 be perfect, but there's all these things fighting against that, 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:53.640 and then even wanting to be perfect, is that right? 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.760 Like yeah, and this makes me think, what is perfectionism? 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:58.920 To your room being? 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.800 Now, through a lot of work, I've come to learn 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:09.960 that perfectionism is a lie. It's a facade. I'm not 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.520 actually defining it. I think a man is asking for 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.880 the definition. But I really come to learn that it's 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:20.360 a facade. And the definition of perfectionism would be to 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.480 be perfect. But what does it mean to be perfect 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:29.560 or to do things exactly or beyond the ideal level? 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.080 You know? And I think there's a difference between excelling 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.720 and being and perfectionism. I think they marked difference between 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.640 the two. How would you define it? Because I failed 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:41.360 all I've said is. 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:46.440 Ad No, Well, it's the word describes itself being perfect 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.400 or ticking all them boxes at high level, not just 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:56.600 not average. Do Yeah, So I think, yeah, that is perfectionism, right, 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.280 getting everything right. You know, the man is fair, or 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.960 you've got a man or a woman, if whatever your 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:07.560 sexual orientation is. The kids are fit. If you've got kids, 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.000 you know, they look absolutely amazing, nothing's wrong with them. 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.560 The family is all set, nothing's wrong, Like, there is 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:19.360 nothing wrong, no flaws right, and we are imperfectly perfect 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.600 human beings with lots of flaws. So it's such a 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.400 dichotomy between that, like it's like, Okay, how are we, 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.640 as flawed human beings going to be perfect to begin with? 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.000 We're a ready set up for failure in this perfect scenario. 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.040 And I think for me, it's almost the beast that's 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:42.240 constantly on our shoulders. Yes, throughout life, you know, doing 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.280 everything right, doing everything is expected, all the things we've 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.960 talked about, you know now that I think about it, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.920 from our first episode, very first episode, very first season, 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:58.520 all the way are rooted and perfectionism because it's like 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.520 you're not meeting them mark perfect class, your problem, You're 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:05.400 not the Yeah, you're problematic. You know your parenting wasn't right, 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.440 You're what kind of finances? Like everything we've talked about 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.840 has seed from perfectionism, because that's just like you have 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.400 had to have had it right to begin with, and 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:18.800 then now when you don't, it's a path. 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.240 It's a problem that's so deep, which brings to question 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.480 when how do you think it all came about? This 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.760 idea of perfectionism? Where does it stem from? How did 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.439 it come about? And maybe in relation to our who 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.640 we are, our culture, our cultural background and where we 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:41.200 come from. What is the root cause perfectionism? 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.920 I think I guess comparison and it spoke about this 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:50.160 comparison culture. But I think you think you're perfect until 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.360 you look in the other lane. Right, Yes, you think 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.000 you're fine, You think you're good, and does someone says 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:56.320 you're not? 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:58.080 You know? 0:09:58.120 --> 0:09:59.880 And I see it now, this is going to be 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.120 so like we're gonna be doulving today. Can I see 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.480 it now? When I look at Jerome, he does not 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.760 think he's not perfect, like oh boy thinks everything is 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:09.760 does is? 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:14.520 Like for me, he's so cutey for me. 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.360 I just did that. I just climbed the stair clip 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.640 for me, you know, so it's like, how do we 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:24.160 lose that someone along the way is gonna go that's 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:29.559 not that great? Yeah yeah, wow, you're not that cute. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:34.040 You're cute, You're too big, you're too thin, You to this, 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:38.280 you to that, someone's gonna come and shutter at some 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.800 point that image you have of yourself, you know, even 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:43.959 if you want to take it to religion. I mean 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.160 a lot of us we know God made us perfectly. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.199 Is the whole notion right when you read the Bible 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.480 that everything is great about us? That you know, and 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.880 then it's say, okay, so at what point did we 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.320 then allow shame and allow distrust of that notion to 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.040 come in? Yeah, well, at a time when we were 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:02.280 just like. 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.880 Hmmm, I think in the biblically it would be when 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.160 Eve ate the fruit exactly. 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.679 So yeah, it's back to our beginning story. 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:21.080 Yeah, yeah, that's right. It's scary, scary, re and I 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.880 think also it stems from you spoke about an episode 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:30.679 of Allyship about the ego and where it's like you 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.400 feel threatened and it comes as a Mander says from comparison, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.679 you feel threatened. So you're like, ah, you're supposed to 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.520 be like this, So hence things like classism, you're not 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.760 like me, I'm threatened. You know, You're not this racism, 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:45.559 You're not that. 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:46.760 You know. 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.440 There's so many elements. It's like the ego of like, oh, 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:55.120 I have to be better than someone else. Yeah, can't 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.360 you just be exactly? 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:01.880 And who said how do you think it presents in 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.120 our day to day life though? Because obviously we've taken 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.800 it fine and talked about religion and whatever. But just 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.160 as you as a black woman, as a black woman 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.320 in modern society, how do you think it presents in 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:14.199 your day to day life. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.000 Well, let's just take it like today's Sunday when we're recording, 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.120 and typically on a Sunday, it's like getting ready for 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.240 the week. So as a woman, it's like, Okay, have 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:28.120 we eaten breakfast? Have I changed the bedding, Have I 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:33.199 done laundry? Have I cleaned the house? Have I water 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:38.280 the plants? Have I cooked or meal prepped? Have I 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:39.280 prepared for work? 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.000 Have I done some self care? 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:43.319 Done some self care? 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.760 Have I met up with the girlies for branch? 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:50.319 Have I spoken to my family and friends? Have I 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.400 been there for my partner? Have I It's like this 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.200 over and it used to sit on me heavy that, 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.680 like have I ticked? You know, you will do the 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.120 most and still be like, oh but I forgot to 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:09.640 take out the trash something I'm giving an example. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:15.520 so just from like a household thing's it's it's insane. 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.320 And then of course it happens in the workplace. You know, 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.880 have I performed enough? Am I? Am I showing my worth? 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.760 Do they value me? And so you keep pushing to 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:31.720 try and be the perfect whatever employee or whatever it is, 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:37.240 and it's just like bruh, yeah, you'll never meet the 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:42.559 mark ever. Ever, I don't know for you. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.400 No, oh for sure. And it purds out in so 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:48.840 many ways because some stuff we can be ridiculously like 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.520 esteemed in this whole idea of being perfect, and some 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.160 stuff were like willing to let go. So even something 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.679 depends on each person is different, right. Some people will 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:00.960 be like, oh my god, I have eat clean, go 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.280 to the gym, I look like this. My body is 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.480 like this and my man never sees me with that makeup, 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.559 have my hair dad, have my nails like. It can 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.480 be like that, or it can also just be like 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.640 the way you think, like what she said, taking off 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.160 your list of it can be like with your family, Okay, 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.160 have I done people pleasing? Have I done everything for 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.640 everyone else and left myself nothing? So it's like it 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.280 just literally some people might have the whole gamut and 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.760 some people could just have this one thing in one 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.600 specific error. Yeah, I'm like, I have to be you know. 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.480 And then I find like for women generally and maybe 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.040 men's different. I mean I would love to for our 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.040 listeners to let us know, our male listeners to let 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:41.960 us know, but for women, it feels like we have 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.160 to be across the board, yes, whereas with men usually 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.640 they'll be like, I like salad work, I'm a CEO. 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.000 I'm doing the things, but when I get home, it's 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.520 feed up video game, you know, like the I don't 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:53.960 have to do the bedding. I don't have to do that. 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.680 But it's like for us as women, it's like every 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:01.560 we go, every we go, like everything we do, everything 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.240 we touch, even if you do go to the gym, 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:04.680 it's like, Okay, I have to be the best, I 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.320 look the best, I have to have the best offic 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:13.960 after like it's like it's like never yeah, it's never ending. 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.880 It's and another example would be if you've ever seen 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.920 or heard of people who have like real OCD, like 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.240 people jerk. I have OCD, but have real OCD how 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:29.000 things have to line up and perfect. It can manifest 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:34.560 in those really visible ways, but it's also within us 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.240 in different ways. You know, for example, someone I'll give 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.480 a personal example. We're on holiday with friends and I 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.280 made a potato salad. I had made like I marinated 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:53.560 meat for the barbecue. I'd made like other food, salad, gravy, everything, 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.600 set things out nicely, ready to eat or whatever. And 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.880 then we're eating the potato salad and the potatoes were 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:05.600 little bit two, not soft enough, and I remember everyone 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.280 ate they were like happy, like oh this is great, 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.480 loved it, whatever, But the potato salad thing was stuck 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.000 in my brain like I was like it was horrible 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.800 because the potato salad was not perfect. Do you understand, 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.680 Like yeah, and for and it can happen, And you know, 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.920 someone else was like, oh really it was not an issue, 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.480 but for you in that lane, it's like data salad 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:27.880 was not. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.080 Perfect, and then it super sedes. 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.640 Yes everything you've done girl, like you've done ten other dishes. Yes, 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.680 which already is a feet in itself, yes, but now 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.920 you're going to obsess about the potato marinade, about that 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.600 one thing. Yep, exactly. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.320 It's not perfect because in your your your your lunch 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.200 or your dinner wasn't perfect, right, yes, potato salad. 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.040 And it's in your head and you stuck with it 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.200 until my therapist was like, girl, I think it's fine. 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.880 Like literally, when she said it to me, she's like, what, like, 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:03.720 you know until someone So that's you know, another example. 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:08.359 But do you think perfectionism is damaging? And how so? 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.920 I do think it's damaging because none of us are perfect, 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.879 and yet we're all in this rat race of trying 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.160 to be you know, whether the rat race is yours 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:26.040 personally or on a grander scale. People compare between siblings, 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:31.440 people compare between like workmates, yeah, you know lovers, People 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:35.000 leave boyfriends and girlfriends there because they're not that perfect person. 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:39.760 Like it's it can be damaging, but is so isolating, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.040 Like as you just said, everyone was like, my god, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.320 the lunch was yummy, the dinner was yummy, but you 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.040 are now in your own little world, but potato salad 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.560 and nobody else is in there with you, and like, 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.680 now maybe you didn't enjoy the rest of the day, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.399 Like even if you reflect on it, you know, and 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.000 there are memories to be made, moments to be had. 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.360 But because potato salad wasn't perfectly know what I mean 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:03.040 like it so and when someone else explains it to you, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.399 as you said your therapist did, it sounds so like 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.080 the of course, but when you're in it, you're in 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:14.000 it isolating. You're isolating. Is that that feeling? 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:20.720 Absolutely? And I think too, as humans, as Amanda said earlier, 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:25.879 we are imperfect and with perfectionism, you are holding yourself 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.520 up to a standard that's unrealistic, but also saying that 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.200 ugly parts of yourself are not okay. So you live 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:38.760 a life of self hate and self judgment where you 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.240 cannot embrace yourself fully. So in our life we have 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.520 our dark sides. We all have dark side Like nobody 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.120 nobody is like angelic. It's impossible. And so you're you're 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.320 hating on the dark side, your flaws, and you imagine 0:18:55.359 --> 0:19:00.639 you live your whole life without fully accepting self with 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.679 that level. And it can come through not necessarily physically, 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:06.399 like yes, of course we're quick to say, oh I 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:10.760 wish I had you know, stronger carves or whatever. But 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.240 it can manifest. And I wish I was smarter in 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.080 this way. I wish I was more able to be 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.080 oriented with directions, or I could keep time more perfectly, 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.920 I could do. You understand what I'm saying, And then 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.720 you live this thing, this life, with a constant state 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.240 of you are not good enough constantly and so hence 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:35.840 why if you're in a relationship with someone who is abusive. 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.560 We also spoke about abuse on this on this podcast, 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.520 and they're saying you're not good enough. You can understand 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.080 why people feeding it's feeding the beasts, and why they 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.000 stay in the relationship to try and prove that no, 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:49.879 I can be perfect. 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.600 Just see let me try, let me show yeah, yeah, 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:55.760 a damaging relationship exactly. 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.560 So it then manifests in other areas and it's just 0:19:58.560 --> 0:19:59.600 like the snowball. 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.400 Yeah. And we've talked about mental health before, were two 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.520 broke twimbos, because that just sounds like anxiety driven to me, 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.159 like you know, you're now you're now in your mind 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.760 all the time, and instead of being in the now 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.680 sort of enjoying them now, you're just like forever living 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.199 Because a lot of times it's retrospect, right, yes, so 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.640 now you're forever living in the past. Oh I could 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.439 have done that. Oh why don't I do this? And 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.919 it's just like it's draining and the mental load it 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.520 takes could be used for other things. 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:35.359 More productive things, bro. And also it can be future driven, 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.800 right because you're like perfect Christmas, I have to There's 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.080 this movie on Netflix, a Christmas movie with Brandy and 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.199 did her friend goes to visit her or something. I 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.520 only watched like a few minutes because I can do it, okay, 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.440 But the friend was like, she's so perfect. No, I 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:51.840 can be perfect in life? Is so perfect and like that, 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:54.159 you know, it's like that thing of like I have 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.800 to have the perfect Christmas, the perfect house, the perfect husband, 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:01.879 perfect kid's perfect. It's perfect, perfec factly imperfect, like it 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.959 cannot exist. It does. So it also in the past, 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.040 so anxiety inducing in the past, anxiety inducing thinking about 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.119 the future. If I don't do this. 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.920 And then you're not living, yeah yeah, yeah. Do you 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:17.600 think it can ever be helpful? Though? 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.199 I think as humanity, as humans, why we've survived so 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:27.800 long in this world is our constant growth and pushing 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:31.600 ourselves to the next level to do better and be better. 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:38.760 I do think sometimes we confuse that with perfectionism, but 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:43.080 it's actually just excellence and growth. And oftentimes the things 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:47.880 that propel humanity forward are birthed or out of necessity 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.879 or struggle. So if you think about struggle and necessity, 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.880 it doesn't happen in perfect conditions, because if things are perfect, 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.400 you wouldn't have a need to figure out okay, instead 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:01.199 of me having to get on a boat for weeks 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:06.320 on end to go from Africa to America or from 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.760 Africa to Asia, what if I could fly there? Now? 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:14.919 The conditions are not ideal, right, because you know, you 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:19.320 get sickness, see sickness, People die all sorts of issues, 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.040 and so the conditions are not So if there were 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.240 perfect conditions, if it was just like a seamless huh, 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.720 I'm there and it takes one second, you wouldn't need 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.840 to create the right brothers wouldn't have had to invent 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.520 a plane. You understand what I'm saying. So I think 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:39.959 there's a false narrative. We tell ourselves that things have 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.360 to be perfect in order to be good, but actually 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.560 it's the imperfections that help us to move forward. As 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:52.040 humanity and society. I think we confuse perfectionism with excellence 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:58.439 a lot of the time, and it's difficult sometimes to 0:22:58.480 --> 0:22:59.320 separate the two. 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:01.920