Speaker 1: I'm always always sir, be careful.
Speaker 2: Love those umboo.
Speaker 3: Let We'll use your head. They will tear you lack
Speaker 3: a purple talk.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no.
Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Amanda and I'm Rumby.
Speaker 3: Welcome to its lay It.
Speaker 1: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty
Speaker 1: years ago when we were in high school.
Speaker 3: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything
Speaker 3: and everything else under the sun.
Speaker 1: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to a brand new episode of
Speaker 1: our podcast, It's lad Podcast. How are you doing, Amanda,
Speaker 1: Hi and me, I'm good.
Speaker 3: How are you? I'm so hyped. I don't even know.
Speaker 3: I'm just really hype.
Speaker 1: We hype in this building. It's quite interesting that you're
Speaker 1: hype because we're actually leading towards Christmas, and I've actually
Speaker 1: been highly stressful trying to think of everything that needs
Speaker 1: to be done. Typically, if anyone knows me, I'm actually
Speaker 1: a huge Christmas girlie. I love Christmas. I typically like
Speaker 1: go into decorating as early as possible, and also, but
Speaker 1: this year I feel like I am lagging behind, and
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like I'm failing at my essence.
Speaker 1: The essence of Woo room be is you know. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been quite interesting for me. But other than that,
Speaker 1: I'm doing all right. I'm doing alright. And for you
Speaker 1: your hype, life's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just hype, not tied to Christmas or anything.
Speaker 3: I mean, by the time this episode is, Christmas will
Speaker 3: be a distant memory. I'm drinking.
Speaker 1: But sorry.
Speaker 3: People get so like, I love Christmas, but I don't know,
Speaker 3: like I'm not You're not a Christmas Yeah, And I
Speaker 3: think that's it's like being a desk for a victim
Speaker 3: of like Christmas also comes with Okay, that's the time
Speaker 3: I work hard. Everyone's gone, time I get my paper,
Speaker 3: like you know what I mean. Like, so I find
Speaker 3: it hard because it's like and I think we talked
Speaker 3: about this our Surviving Desperate episode where it's like Christmas
Speaker 3: for me is a time when all my family is
Speaker 3: gathered and that doesn't necessarily always tie in with actual christinies.
Speaker 3: And I think also being here with like so multicultural,
Speaker 3: I'm close to people who don't celebrate Christmas, like Chinese
Speaker 3: New Year, Lunar New year is huge here, so it's like,
Speaker 3: then what is Christmas? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get you.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, it's like when you stund some people
Speaker 3: who have a different version of Christmas, then you start
Speaker 3: to think, oh, okay, there are.
Speaker 1: The things, Yeah, there are other things. Yeah, and the
Speaker 1: Western world we really emphasize it. But yeah, I think
Speaker 1: for me it's because since I was a kid, it
Speaker 1: was always a big thing. Yeah what you said, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a big deal.
Speaker 3: So it's yea zim trust me. It's such a huge
Speaker 3: Christmas box the box, like I mean the last year
Speaker 3: when we went Hamburg together, I mean, can I let
Speaker 3: the people know that this Christmas will be in Australia together.
Speaker 3: So maybe that's why I'm hyped because I'm hosting this.
Speaker 3: Yeah I do, I do plan to be. Maybe I'm
Speaker 3: the Christmas girly for you.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's what's something, that's what that makes sense,
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you very much. But yeah, this is
Speaker 1: our season finale, Amanda. We've actually come to the end
Speaker 1: of season five. I feel like two seconds ago we're
Speaker 1: saying welcome to season five. We can't believe it's season five.
Speaker 1: And now We've hit the finale of season five.
Speaker 3: And so much happened this season. Our fiftieth milestone happened.
Speaker 3: I mean this this season had the most guests we've
Speaker 3: always have done in the last season. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 3: like just being giving. This season has just been giving.
Speaker 3: I really have been feeling our Bobby era. Why reckon
Speaker 3: we even talked about Bobby era always down the Bobby
Speaker 3: Era track.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question because I never thought I
Speaker 1: was a Bobby girl. I've never really been a Bobby girl. Actually,
Speaker 1: Amanda fun Fact got me my first ever Bobby. Did
Speaker 1: I say this already on the podcast. I never had
Speaker 1: a Bobby like growing up, but and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I never even go to Bobby. And then Amanda was like,
Speaker 1: all right, here you go, here's your Bobby, your friend.
Speaker 1: We really, I guess both of us watched the Bobby movie,
Speaker 1: as we've said in previous episodes, and watching that film,
Speaker 1: it was so different to the Bobby we grew up knowing.
Speaker 1: You know, the Bobby of affection. You know, white, skinny,
Speaker 1: long hair that looks nothing like my hair, you know,
Speaker 1: things like that. We grew up in that era. But
Speaker 1: there's a very crucial moment in the movie spoiler alert
Speaker 1: if you've not already watched it, where Gloria played by
Speaker 1: America Ferrara, has this monologue and she's talking about how
Speaker 1: exhausting it is to be a woman. And I'll just
Speaker 1: quote like one or two lines from her speech which
Speaker 1: really resonated with me. She says, like, we have to
Speaker 1: always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong. Imagine,
Speaker 1: and she goes on this old spiel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely share the monologue on our socials
Speaker 3: when the episode drops. For those of you haven't seen it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but just one of the lines, you have to
Speaker 1: be thin but not too thin, and you can never
Speaker 1: say you want to be thin. So this you're left
Speaker 1: in this sort of I don't know what do you
Speaker 1: call it?
Speaker 3: Like do you have to say I want to be healthy?
Speaker 3: And what is healthy?
Speaker 1: Yes, it's so confusing. So I think that when you
Speaker 1: spoke to us, because it really ties in with perfectionism,
Speaker 1: which is something that you know, we'll go more into
Speaker 1: depth with this episode, but it's really just like, man,
Speaker 1: there's no winning. It's a conundrum. Actually that's what I
Speaker 1: was looking It's a conundrum because you have to be
Speaker 1: thin but not too thin. You can't say you want
Speaker 1: to be thin, because you have to say you want
Speaker 1: to be healthy. But what is healthy and what does
Speaker 1: being healthy look like? And how do you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you always have to be part of
Speaker 3: the sisterhood, she said, like you always have to root
Speaker 3: for other women, you know. And it's like, yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3: And it's a dichotomy, right, like, yeah, you want to
Speaker 3: be perfect, but there's all these things fighting against that,
Speaker 3: and then even wanting to be perfect, is that right?
Speaker 3: Like yeah, and this makes me think, what is perfectionism?
Speaker 3: To your room being?
Speaker 1: Now, through a lot of work, I've come to learn
Speaker 1: that perfectionism is a lie. It's a facade. I'm not
Speaker 1: actually defining it. I think a man is asking for
Speaker 1: the definition. But I really come to learn that it's
Speaker 1: a facade. And the definition of perfectionism would be to
Speaker 1: be perfect. But what does it mean to be perfect
Speaker 1: or to do things exactly or beyond the ideal level?
Speaker 1: You know? And I think there's a difference between excelling
Speaker 1: and being and perfectionism. I think they marked difference between
Speaker 1: the two. How would you define it? Because I failed
Speaker 1: all I've said is.
Speaker 3: Ad No, Well, it's the word describes itself being perfect
Speaker 3: or ticking all them boxes at high level, not just
Speaker 3: not average. Do Yeah, So I think, yeah, that is perfectionism, right,
Speaker 3: getting everything right. You know, the man is fair, or
Speaker 3: you've got a man or a woman, if whatever your
Speaker 3: sexual orientation is. The kids are fit. If you've got kids,
Speaker 3: you know, they look absolutely amazing, nothing's wrong with them.
Speaker 3: The family is all set, nothing's wrong, Like, there is
Speaker 3: nothing wrong, no flaws right, and we are imperfectly perfect
Speaker 3: human beings with lots of flaws. So it's such a
Speaker 3: dichotomy between that, like it's like, Okay, how are we,
Speaker 3: as flawed human beings going to be perfect to begin with?
Speaker 3: We're a ready set up for failure in this perfect scenario.
Speaker 3: And I think for me, it's almost the beast that's
Speaker 3: constantly on our shoulders. Yes, throughout life, you know, doing
Speaker 3: everything right, doing everything is expected, all the things we've
Speaker 3: talked about, you know now that I think about it,
Speaker 3: from our first episode, very first episode, very first season,
Speaker 3: all the way are rooted and perfectionism because it's like
Speaker 3: you're not meeting them mark perfect class, your problem, You're
Speaker 3: not the Yeah, you're problematic. You know your parenting wasn't right,
Speaker 3: You're what kind of finances? Like everything we've talked about
Speaker 3: has seed from perfectionism, because that's just like you have
Speaker 3: had to have had it right to begin with, and
Speaker 3: then now when you don't, it's a path.
Speaker 1: It's a problem that's so deep, which brings to question
Speaker 1: when how do you think it all came about? This
Speaker 1: idea of perfectionism? Where does it stem from? How did
Speaker 1: it come about? And maybe in relation to our who
Speaker 1: we are, our culture, our cultural background and where we
Speaker 1: come from. What is the root cause perfectionism?
Speaker 3: I think I guess comparison and it spoke about this
Speaker 3: comparison culture. But I think you think you're perfect until
Speaker 3: you look in the other lane. Right, Yes, you think
Speaker 3: you're fine, You think you're good, and does someone says
Speaker 3: you're not?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: And I see it now, this is going to be
Speaker 3: so like we're gonna be doulving today. Can I see
Speaker 3: it now? When I look at Jerome, he does not
Speaker 3: think he's not perfect, like oh boy thinks everything is
Speaker 3: does is?
Speaker 1: Like for me, he's so cutey for me.
Speaker 3: I just did that. I just climbed the stair clip
Speaker 3: for me, you know, so it's like, how do we
Speaker 3: lose that someone along the way is gonna go that's
Speaker 3: not that great? Yeah yeah, wow, you're not that cute.
Speaker 3: You're cute, You're too big, you're too thin, You to this,
Speaker 3: you to that, someone's gonna come and shutter at some
Speaker 3: point that image you have of yourself, you know, even
Speaker 3: if you want to take it to religion. I mean
Speaker 3: a lot of us we know God made us perfectly.
Speaker 3: Is the whole notion right when you read the Bible
Speaker 3: that everything is great about us? That you know, and
Speaker 3: then it's say, okay, so at what point did we
Speaker 3: then allow shame and allow distrust of that notion to
Speaker 3: come in? Yeah, well, at a time when we were
Speaker 3: just like.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, I think in the biblically it would be when
Speaker 1: Eve ate the fruit exactly.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's back to our beginning story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right. It's scary, scary, re and I
Speaker 1: think also it stems from you spoke about an episode
Speaker 1: of Allyship about the ego and where it's like you
Speaker 1: feel threatened and it comes as a Mander says from comparison,
Speaker 1: you feel threatened. So you're like, ah, you're supposed to
Speaker 1: be like this, So hence things like classism, you're not
Speaker 1: like me, I'm threatened. You know, You're not this racism,
Speaker 1: You're not that.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: There's so many elements. It's like the ego of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I have to be better than someone else. Yeah, can't
Speaker 1: you just be exactly?
Speaker 3: And who said how do you think it presents in
Speaker 3: our day to day life though? Because obviously we've taken
Speaker 3: it fine and talked about religion and whatever. But just
Speaker 3: as you as a black woman, as a black woman
Speaker 3: in modern society, how do you think it presents in
Speaker 3: your day to day life.
Speaker 1: Well, let's just take it like today's Sunday when we're recording,
Speaker 1: and typically on a Sunday, it's like getting ready for
Speaker 1: the week. So as a woman, it's like, Okay, have
Speaker 1: we eaten breakfast? Have I changed the bedding, Have I
Speaker 1: done laundry? Have I cleaned the house? Have I water
Speaker 1: the plants? Have I cooked or meal prepped? Have I
Speaker 1: prepared for work?
Speaker 3: Have I done some self care?
Speaker 1: Done some self care?
Speaker 3: Have I met up with the girlies for branch?
Speaker 1: Have I spoken to my family and friends? Have I
Speaker 1: been there for my partner? Have I It's like this
Speaker 1: over and it used to sit on me heavy that,
Speaker 1: like have I ticked? You know, you will do the
Speaker 1: most and still be like, oh but I forgot to
Speaker 1: take out the trash something I'm giving an example. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so just from like a household thing's it's it's insane.
Speaker 1: And then of course it happens in the workplace. You know,
Speaker 1: have I performed enough? Am I? Am I showing my worth?
Speaker 1: Do they value me? And so you keep pushing to
Speaker 1: try and be the perfect whatever employee or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and it's just like bruh, yeah, you'll never meet the
Speaker 1: mark ever. Ever, I don't know for you.
Speaker 3: No, oh for sure. And it purds out in so
Speaker 3: many ways because some stuff we can be ridiculously like
Speaker 3: esteemed in this whole idea of being perfect, and some
Speaker 3: stuff were like willing to let go. So even something
Speaker 3: depends on each person is different, right. Some people will
Speaker 3: be like, oh my god, I have eat clean, go
Speaker 3: to the gym, I look like this. My body is
Speaker 3: like this and my man never sees me with that makeup,
Speaker 3: have my hair dad, have my nails like. It can
Speaker 3: be like that, or it can also just be like
Speaker 3: the way you think, like what she said, taking off
Speaker 3: your list of it can be like with your family, Okay,
Speaker 3: have I done people pleasing? Have I done everything for
Speaker 3: everyone else and left myself nothing? So it's like it
Speaker 3: just literally some people might have the whole gamut and
Speaker 3: some people could just have this one thing in one
Speaker 3: specific error. Yeah, I'm like, I have to be you know.
Speaker 3: And then I find like for women generally and maybe
Speaker 3: men's different. I mean I would love to for our
Speaker 3: listeners to let us know, our male listeners to let
Speaker 3: us know, but for women, it feels like we have
Speaker 3: to be across the board, yes, whereas with men usually
Speaker 3: they'll be like, I like salad work, I'm a CEO.
Speaker 3: I'm doing the things, but when I get home, it's
Speaker 3: feed up video game, you know, like the I don't
Speaker 3: have to do the bedding. I don't have to do that.
Speaker 3: But it's like for us as women, it's like every
Speaker 3: we go, every we go, like everything we do, everything
Speaker 3: we touch, even if you do go to the gym,
Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, I have to be the best, I
Speaker 3: look the best, I have to have the best offic
Speaker 3: after like it's like it's like never yeah, it's never ending.
Speaker 1: It's and another example would be if you've ever seen
Speaker 1: or heard of people who have like real OCD, like
Speaker 1: people jerk. I have OCD, but have real OCD how
Speaker 1: things have to line up and perfect. It can manifest
Speaker 1: in those really visible ways, but it's also within us
Speaker 1: in different ways. You know, for example, someone I'll give
Speaker 1: a personal example. We're on holiday with friends and I
Speaker 1: made a potato salad. I had made like I marinated
Speaker 1: meat for the barbecue. I'd made like other food, salad, gravy, everything,
Speaker 1: set things out nicely, ready to eat or whatever. And
Speaker 1: then we're eating the potato salad and the potatoes were
Speaker 1: little bit two, not soft enough, and I remember everyone
Speaker 1: ate they were like happy, like oh this is great,
Speaker 1: loved it, whatever, But the potato salad thing was stuck
Speaker 1: in my brain like I was like it was horrible
Speaker 1: because the potato salad was not perfect. Do you understand,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, and for and it can happen, And you know,
Speaker 1: someone else was like, oh really it was not an issue,
Speaker 1: but for you in that lane, it's like data salad
Speaker 1: was not.
Speaker 3: Perfect, and then it super sedes.
Speaker 1: Yes everything you've done girl, like you've done ten other dishes. Yes,
Speaker 1: which already is a feet in itself, yes, but now
Speaker 1: you're going to obsess about the potato marinade, about that
Speaker 1: one thing. Yep, exactly.
Speaker 3: It's not perfect because in your your your your lunch
Speaker 3: or your dinner wasn't perfect, right, yes, potato salad.
Speaker 1: And it's in your head and you stuck with it
Speaker 1: until my therapist was like, girl, I think it's fine.
Speaker 1: Like literally, when she said it to me, she's like, what, like,
Speaker 1: you know until someone So that's you know, another example.
Speaker 1: But do you think perfectionism is damaging? And how so?
Speaker 3: I do think it's damaging because none of us are perfect,
Speaker 3: and yet we're all in this rat race of trying
Speaker 3: to be you know, whether the rat race is yours
Speaker 3: personally or on a grander scale. People compare between siblings,
Speaker 3: people compare between like workmates, yeah, you know lovers, People
Speaker 3: leave boyfriends and girlfriends there because they're not that perfect person.
Speaker 3: Like it's it can be damaging, but is so isolating,
Speaker 3: Like as you just said, everyone was like, my god,
Speaker 3: the lunch was yummy, the dinner was yummy, but you
Speaker 3: are now in your own little world, but potato salad
Speaker 3: and nobody else is in there with you, and like,
Speaker 3: now maybe you didn't enjoy the rest of the day,
Speaker 3: Like even if you reflect on it, you know, and
Speaker 3: there are memories to be made, moments to be had.
Speaker 3: But because potato salad wasn't perfectly know what I mean
Speaker 3: like it so and when someone else explains it to you,
Speaker 3: as you said your therapist did, it sounds so like
Speaker 3: the of course, but when you're in it, you're in
Speaker 3: it isolating. You're isolating. Is that that feeling?
Speaker 1: Absolutely? And I think too, as humans, as Amanda said earlier,
Speaker 1: we are imperfect and with perfectionism, you are holding yourself
Speaker 1: up to a standard that's unrealistic, but also saying that
Speaker 1: ugly parts of yourself are not okay. So you live
Speaker 1: a life of self hate and self judgment where you
Speaker 1: cannot embrace yourself fully. So in our life we have
Speaker 1: our dark sides. We all have dark side Like nobody
Speaker 1: nobody is like angelic. It's impossible. And so you're you're
Speaker 1: hating on the dark side, your flaws, and you imagine
Speaker 1: you live your whole life without fully accepting self with
Speaker 1: that level. And it can come through not necessarily physically,
Speaker 1: like yes, of course we're quick to say, oh I
Speaker 1: wish I had you know, stronger carves or whatever. But
Speaker 1: it can manifest. And I wish I was smarter in
Speaker 1: this way. I wish I was more able to be
Speaker 1: oriented with directions, or I could keep time more perfectly,
Speaker 1: I could do. You understand what I'm saying, And then
Speaker 1: you live this thing, this life, with a constant state
Speaker 1: of you are not good enough constantly and so hence
Speaker 1: why if you're in a relationship with someone who is abusive.
Speaker 1: We also spoke about abuse on this on this podcast,
Speaker 1: and they're saying you're not good enough. You can understand
Speaker 1: why people feeding it's feeding the beasts, and why they
Speaker 1: stay in the relationship to try and prove that no,
Speaker 1: I can be perfect.
Speaker 3: Just see let me try, let me show yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: a damaging relationship exactly.
Speaker 1: So it then manifests in other areas and it's just
Speaker 1: like the snowball.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And we've talked about mental health before, were two
Speaker 3: broke twimbos, because that just sounds like anxiety driven to me,
Speaker 3: like you know, you're now you're now in your mind
Speaker 3: all the time, and instead of being in the now
Speaker 3: sort of enjoying them now, you're just like forever living
Speaker 3: Because a lot of times it's retrospect, right, yes, so
Speaker 3: now you're forever living in the past. Oh I could
Speaker 3: have done that. Oh why don't I do this? And
Speaker 3: it's just like it's draining and the mental load it
Speaker 3: takes could be used for other things.
Speaker 1: More productive things, bro. And also it can be future driven,
Speaker 1: right because you're like perfect Christmas, I have to There's
Speaker 1: this movie on Netflix, a Christmas movie with Brandy and
Speaker 1: did her friend goes to visit her or something. I
Speaker 1: only watched like a few minutes because I can do it, okay,
Speaker 1: But the friend was like, she's so perfect. No, I
Speaker 1: can be perfect in life? Is so perfect and like that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like that thing of like I have
Speaker 1: to have the perfect Christmas, the perfect house, the perfect husband,
Speaker 1: perfect kid's perfect. It's perfect, perfec factly imperfect, like it
Speaker 1: cannot exist. It does. So it also in the past,
Speaker 1: so anxiety inducing in the past, anxiety inducing thinking about
Speaker 1: the future. If I don't do this.
Speaker 3: And then you're not living, yeah yeah, yeah. Do you
Speaker 3: think it can ever be helpful? Though?
Speaker 1: I think as humanity, as humans, why we've survived so
Speaker 1: long in this world is our constant growth and pushing
Speaker 1: ourselves to the next level to do better and be better.
Speaker 1: I do think sometimes we confuse that with perfectionism, but
Speaker 1: it's actually just excellence and growth. And oftentimes the things
Speaker 1: that propel humanity forward are birthed or out of necessity
Speaker 1: or struggle. So if you think about struggle and necessity,
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen in perfect conditions, because if things are perfect,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have a need to figure out okay, instead
Speaker 1: of me having to get on a boat for weeks
Speaker 1: on end to go from Africa to America or from
Speaker 1: Africa to Asia, what if I could fly there? Now?
Speaker 1: The conditions are not ideal, right, because you know, you
Speaker 1: get sickness, see sickness, People die all sorts of issues,
Speaker 1: and so the conditions are not So if there were
Speaker 1: perfect conditions, if it was just like a seamless huh,
Speaker 1: I'm there and it takes one second, you wouldn't need
Speaker 1: to create the right brothers wouldn't have had to invent
Speaker 1: a plane. You understand what I'm saying. So I think
Speaker 1: there's a false narrative. We tell ourselves that things have
Speaker 1: to be perfect in order to be good, but actually
Speaker 1: it's the imperfections that help us to move forward. As
Speaker 1: humanity and society. I think we confuse perfectionism with excellence
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, and it's difficult sometimes to
Speaker 1: separate the two.
Speaker 3: So it's a thin line.
Speaker 1: It's a thin line, you know. And I think I've
Speaker 1: come to know that. I don't think perfectionism is rooted
Speaker 1: in good things at the heart of it. It seems
Speaker 1: like it is, but it's it's like not really, I
Speaker 1: don't know what you think. I don't know if I've
Speaker 1: answered the question.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think like I look at it
Speaker 3: so black and white, like obviously it's helpful in some careers,
Speaker 3: like I don't want a pilot to not be perfect
Speaker 3: in my child. If I'm flying, it's because you made
Speaker 3: me think about flying room or like a surgeon or like.
Speaker 3: So there's some times when we are called to a
Speaker 3: higher power, are called to a higher esteem, and we
Speaker 3: have to be on an a gain. That's what they say,
Speaker 3: that on your a gaining. And I know people can think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's overachieving. But even in that overachieving, or even in
Speaker 3: that seeking excellence, for those ten minutes or fifteen minutes
Speaker 3: or whatever long it takes you, you have to do
Speaker 3: something in a perfect way, but to live like that
Speaker 3: all the time is unsustainable. So even the surgeon is
Speaker 3: going to do your surgery right, you know, your pilot's
Speaker 3: gonna land the plane, but he doesn't. It doesn't necessarily
Speaker 3: mean when he steps out that plane it has to
Speaker 3: continue being years in that state of perfection, do you
Speaker 3: know what I mean? So I think it's like a
Speaker 3: time and a place thing for it. But what I
Speaker 3: think happens is that we get addicted to that feeling.
Speaker 3: Yeah I can do that, I'm because there's also ego
Speaker 3: what you said before, roomy. So so some of it
Speaker 3: is very introspective and some of it is very like
Speaker 3: people praising you. Right, pilot lands the plane, the whole plane.
Speaker 3: You know, the pilot's gonna come out like dot that
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like then you go, oh my, just the
Speaker 1: regular you might not be, you know, like surgeon that
Speaker 1: known typically their attitudes, their personas.
Speaker 3: Are like mister confident, mister, arrogant, mister. They're known to
Speaker 3: have that pompous and genermanization.
Speaker 1: Because it's probably fed by that achieving you know, and
Speaker 1: like men, I feel like that's the part where we
Speaker 1: can't switch it.
Speaker 3: Our brains love dopamine. Yes, and we can't switch it
Speaker 3: on and off. Yes, and that's why we then keep
Speaker 3: speaking it all in all areas of life. Meanwhile, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: you're only meant to do that perfectly for like ten
Speaker 3: fifteen and then let it go. But you're now like
Speaker 3: trying to have that feeling everywhere. And I think it
Speaker 3: is like a drug where you kind of like get
Speaker 3: addicted to. But there's something we're getting out of it.
Speaker 3: Because even when you are perfect, if you had done
Speaker 3: your dinner room be perfectly, you probably would have found
Speaker 3: something else exactly, you know what I mean exactly in
Speaker 3: this constant state of how can I find this? And
Speaker 3: when you're making design or crafting something or working on
Speaker 3: someone or it's needed to have that yes, and it's
Speaker 3: helpful to have that nitpick like how can I do
Speaker 3: that better? How can I you know?
Speaker 1: Not like then excellence, That's what I'm saying. It's like,
Speaker 1: I think we really are no.
Speaker 3: But I think excellence still gives room for flaws, whereas
Speaker 3: perfectionism doesn't. You have to do it from start to
Speaker 3: finish with that same energy. You can't be like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, but on that it's okay, I'm going to
Speaker 3: handball that. Like it's like you have to be on
Speaker 3: that higher level of For me anyway, I think like
Speaker 3: because I feel like excellent and overachievement or being above
Speaker 3: are like I'm the same, but there's still room for
Speaker 3: like tweaking, whereas with perfectionism there's no tweaks.
Speaker 1: It's like, sure, that's how I think we're saying the
Speaker 1: same thing, but using different language. I think maybe for
Speaker 1: me the language now of perfectionism, I approach with caution because,
Speaker 1: as you say, I think a surgeon should do it
Speaker 1: extremely well, like you should be able to stitch you
Speaker 1: up and do the things that needs to be done exceptionally. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe exceptional is what I would use, so to be
Speaker 1: able to do something exceptionally. But you're so right about that, Dopamine.
Speaker 1: I think we are supposed to tap into that level
Speaker 1: of exceptional perfectionism in your words, at a certain point
Speaker 1: and then retreat from that. And I think at a
Speaker 1: level of exceptional and that perfection, as the pilot lines
Speaker 1: a plane, you have to be tapped in. And it's
Speaker 1: not just you. I think you almost tap into a
Speaker 1: higher version of yourself. It's almost like, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to explain this. I mean, all our diaries are perfect, exactly.
Speaker 1: No one as a god in every religion, the god
Speaker 1: is perfect. Yes, So then you tie in, you tap
Speaker 1: into that level in exactly chase that, and I think
Speaker 1: it's very true. Also we see with celebrity ease. I
Speaker 1: was watching the Robbie Williams documentary, and you really realize
Speaker 1: that chasing that that people love me, people accept me,
Speaker 1: people like me as I am, and they think I'm fantastic.
Speaker 1: And as soon as there's an element of doubt or
Speaker 1: someone saying, oh maybe I don't like you so much,
Speaker 1: it's the crumble. Do you understand what I'm saying? So
Speaker 1: it's like it really is a drug, And then aren't
Speaker 1: I accept it? I'm perfect? Can't I be?
Speaker 3: And that's why it's not sustainable. You need to realize
Speaker 3: that it can be sought and retreated, but I don't
Speaker 3: think it's meant to be sought often. And I do
Speaker 3: think it's meant to be sought as needed, But it's
Speaker 3: that we love that feeling, So then we end up
Speaker 3: staying in that place, in that state.
Speaker 1: And it's unsustainable. But are there different types of perfectionism.
Speaker 3: I think so, Like, I think there's societal where people
Speaker 3: are like, you know, your mother, you should do this,
Speaker 3: you should do that.
Speaker 1: I don't have my stuff for those high standards, like
Speaker 1: why do you your wife? You know, how can you
Speaker 1: deal let your husband not have sex?
Speaker 3: How can you dal let your you know, students, you know,
Speaker 3: I expect better from your room me. You're usually my
Speaker 3: a star student, Like, you can't have a bad day,
Speaker 3: you can't have stresses. So I think there's like there's
Speaker 3: different types where people ask us to tap into perfectionism
Speaker 3: or ask us to tap into excellence or overachieving or
Speaker 3: you know, just doing things well. And then that's why
Speaker 3: even our bodies, right, like oh my god, you have
Speaker 3: a great body when you're twenty five, when you're forty five. Really,
Speaker 3: most times it's not going to look exactly the same
Speaker 3: as it looks like you're twenty five, naturally, and then
Speaker 3: we want to tap into it, like because we're like,
Speaker 3: oh no, I used to look good, but it's like,
Speaker 3: but you've changed, You've grown your body, your face shows
Speaker 3: your life, you know. But yet we're trying to be
Speaker 3: like no boattox, I can't be having wrinkles. So I
Speaker 3: feel like it's all some stuff as visual, so your
Speaker 3: body image and all that stuff, and some stuff like internal.
Speaker 3: Some stuff is within families. You're the you're the firstborn son,
Speaker 3: you're the first daughter, you're the you know that the
Speaker 3: siblings after you can fail and flounder, but you have
Speaker 3: to be like yeah, I feel like there's different types
Speaker 3: from different people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yoh, there's no winning in this life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a right, wrap it up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. I have nothing more to add. It's
Speaker 1: just it's complex.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that's the true. Do you think
Speaker 3: society having said that encourages or discouraged, discourages the notion
Speaker 3: of yes, affectionism.
Speaker 1: Yes, thousand, they encourage, they encourage it. And when you know,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of myself as a young Zimbabwean girl growing
Speaker 1: up and Ziva mun like no, everyone morosam in order,
Speaker 1: wash hands in the correct order, in the correct order,
Speaker 1: who's who, give food out in the correct order. Don't
Speaker 1: complain if they're telling you to run up and down
Speaker 1: and then never mind when you eat, never mind. Yosada
Speaker 1: needs to be perfect. You need to be able to
Speaker 1: do it like that like this, yo yo, yo, and
Speaker 1: I think and it's praised right and they are not
Speaker 1: going it's so smart. Oh god, straight a's Oh did
Speaker 1: did that? You know we praise a lot. We rarely
Speaker 1: praise people who fall and are able to still keep going,
Speaker 1: for example, like you know, like I've made a mistake,
Speaker 1: but I'm choosing to still get up. We don't praise that. Really,
Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, you have to be perfect for you.
Speaker 3: It's so sad, right, and I think you're right, Like
Speaker 3: I mean, Zimbabwean society definitely encourages perfectionism, like don't talk
Speaker 3: to no boys when you're in high school. Then get
Speaker 3: yourself the right man. Yes, it's like, okay, how do
Speaker 3: I jump from no boys to a man? And then
Speaker 3: after that, I I have the kids. Make sure you
Speaker 3: have a boy because you have to carry the name.
Speaker 3: Then have a girl maybe after so you know, they
Speaker 3: have siblings and they can play together. Like everything is
Speaker 3: just like oh, in the midst of this, oh, did
Speaker 3: you make sure you brought your house?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: You know, make sure you drive a nice car, like
Speaker 3: make sure you're not just driving school or school, like
Speaker 3: you're actually driving a proper car. Like it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: how do I make sure you go to church? Yes,
Speaker 3: make sure you Yes, It's like, okay, how do I
Speaker 3: remain skinny?
Speaker 1: Like it's just like everything is, Oh, they don't be
Speaker 1: too skinny because then you look like you don't also
Speaker 1: got man like, it's just.
Speaker 3: Like, how do you keep up with everything?
Speaker 1: Keeping up appearances?
Speaker 3: I mean our podcast, I feel just wiring. We probably
Speaker 3: tied this whole season while so perfectly in the beginning,
Speaker 3: but like it's because our whole podcast is based on
Speaker 3: this dichotomy of how do we achieve all these things
Speaker 3: that I expected of us? Yes, when we are and
Speaker 3: sometimes you don't even expect it of yourself. You like,
Speaker 3: I wasn't even thinking of this, but now you put
Speaker 3: this idea in my hair and my name to be
Speaker 3: this person, and I need to do these things. And
Speaker 3: this is not the right order it should have been in.
Speaker 1: Yes, you start beating yourself and berating yourself from not
Speaker 1: doing that. If anyone has a great example actually is
Speaker 1: if you watch when we were younger, there was keeping
Speaker 1: up appearances, a show about the Bouquet residence is actually
Speaker 1: they was bucket, but she calls off the Bouquet and
Speaker 1: how she used to flawdin like like struggle to try
Speaker 1: and maintain this perfection. But half the time she was failing,
Speaker 1: and she.
Speaker 3: Didn't want their neighbors to see and everyone knew already.
Speaker 3: Child husband was so over it, yes, exactly, but now
Speaker 3: you act to just be alone for the ride.
Speaker 1: And it was such a great example of how perfectionism
Speaker 1: is so ridiculous because so what doesn't even exist. You're
Speaker 1: even denying your name because you're trying to to be
Speaker 1: this perfect yeah.
Speaker 3: Whatever from the certain class or certain background.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So that's a good. That's a good. And
Speaker 1: then there's keeping up with the Joneses and all.
Speaker 3: That those kind of And I think for me, what
Speaker 3: also hurts about is that it can be personal. Right,
Speaker 3: so it's okay if society at large, but even sometimes
Speaker 3: people have husbands. There's this whole notion on TikTok at
Speaker 3: the moment. Obviously, I'm on mother Talk, so there's like
Speaker 3: this whole notion of they are single moms in marriages.
Speaker 3: And the whole thing is because men think, oh, you
Speaker 3: can go to work, you can feed the kids, you
Speaker 3: can the kids need to look bright, like here's kept
Speaker 3: everything's perfect, and you are too at the same time,
Speaker 3: and it's like, Okay, how do I do this with
Speaker 3: no help, with no no nothing from you. It's all me.
Speaker 3: It's all everything that you're doing. And I've been making
Speaker 3: sure everything stays done, but I don't getting input. So
Speaker 3: I think we also have these notions about our gender roles, right,
Speaker 3: something we spoke about because it's like, is that actually right?
Speaker 3: That women need to do everything and for the kids?
Speaker 3: Like we know, even with dinner, people are like, oh,
Speaker 3: so what's for dinner tonight? And look at the mom.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, why don't you look at dad and
Speaker 3: also ask what's for dinner? Like that should just be
Speaker 3: completely normal. But then it's like that pressure society has
Speaker 3: put from the nineteen fifties, they're still there told now
Speaker 3: that women are the housewife and they also go to work.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like they can't do it all. I
Speaker 3: think perfectionism always fights that, and that's why Rumby and
Speaker 3: I are saying, you tap into it, if at all,
Speaker 3: and then you retreat because you cannot operate on that
Speaker 3: level for every single thing and not have burnout, and
Speaker 3: not have mental fatigue, not have mental loading, not have
Speaker 3: something fall on the wayside, like you're juggling so many
Speaker 3: things in the same twenty four hours. What's that thing
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four hours in the day, And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but you have to also take care of yourself. I
Speaker 3: think society doesn't give that space. They just keep encouraging
Speaker 3: that everything's done.
Speaker 1: And people say, for example, we all have the same
Speaker 1: twenty four hours as Beyonce, but Beyonce is told that
Speaker 1: she don't cook.
Speaker 3: That's no, they don't cook.
Speaker 1: So I'm just saying it just shows you like something has.
Speaker 3: Gone and she has a team of people, it's not like.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and also.
Speaker 3: She ain't changing them nippeens, I'm exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think for me, my sister actually said this
Speaker 1: to me. She was like, people judge, for example, stay
Speaker 1: at home mom's and say, oh, you're not doing anything.
Speaker 1: She was like, do you understand the mental fatigue it
Speaker 1: takes as a woman in a household, because yes, the
Speaker 1: kids go off to school and you're at home. But
Speaker 1: now you're thinking, Okay, so and so's birthday is coming up,
Speaker 1: what are you going to do for that? We need
Speaker 1: to buy this, we need to do this, and just
Speaker 1: in even and I find that happens with me even
Speaker 1: if I'm just quote unquote chilling on the couch, I'll
Speaker 1: be busy like thinking of, okay, this is coming up.
Speaker 1: We need to make sure we have this, this is this,
Speaker 1: we need to do that. Have we done this? Your
Speaker 1: constantly It's like the brain is constantly feeling like you
Speaker 1: need to do this because guess what if you don't
Speaker 1: have that gift for Jerome's homies birthday, they well they
Speaker 1: look at your.
Speaker 3: House, but they all look at the husband and they
Speaker 3: won't look at Jerome exactly, but that exact thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's funny because there's a clip. Also you talked about
Speaker 3: Bobbie movie. But also just like that, they share about
Speaker 3: she I think she lets her husband do a lot
Speaker 3: of the chores for once, and obviously things are falling
Speaker 3: apart because for if.
Speaker 1: Anyone wants to know, it's for the the series Sex
Speaker 1: and the City like series.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like they did a sequel and just like that,
Speaker 3: and just like David, Yes, and she's talking to her
Speaker 3: husband and like it's like one of those things like
Speaker 3: and he's complaining that, oh, everything's falling apart, and she's like, no,
Speaker 3: it's because now I'm asking you guys to also do it,
Speaker 3: and I've been doing it. I've been checking these things.
Speaker 3: I've been so yes, just because you've done a couple
Speaker 3: of dinners and a couple of birthday presents and a
Speaker 3: couple of whatever whatever else doesn't mean that now I
Speaker 3: owe you all of this. It shows the pressure that
Speaker 3: partners put on each other that you know he expects
Speaker 3: that it's done, and she's like, well, I'm also human
Speaker 3: to the way you are. I also have fatigue and
Speaker 3: I shouldn't have to be performing perfectly at all times.
Speaker 3: So I'll share that one as well. Yeah, we'll share
Speaker 3: it with you.
Speaker 1: And also, how a dad will you know, be carrying
Speaker 1: their child and they were like, oh, such a great dad.
Speaker 3: It's like you, that's your child.
Speaker 1: I was cuddling your child or like pushing the prime
Speaker 1: or like things like that. It's like, it's also a child. Hey,
Speaker 1: it's also But would you say, okay, let's get to
Speaker 1: we've we've talked high level, let's get into it. Would
Speaker 1: you say you are a perfectionist and how has your
Speaker 1: journey with it been.
Speaker 3: I would say I've always been a high achiever school,
Speaker 3: so I guess that's where I practiced trying to be perfect,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, And the same as you
Speaker 3: saying when you cooked, you had this one dish. For
Speaker 3: me it was the opposite, like I could have straight
Speaker 3: a's and then one B somewhere, and then my parents
Speaker 3: would like hone in on that, like why are you
Speaker 3: doing this? You know? Why is this not perfect? So,
Speaker 3: like I think I learned to deal with the disappointment
Speaker 3: that perfectionism when you're not perfect comes with very early on,
Speaker 3: to be like okay, no, but it's okay. I still
Speaker 3: got to be I'm fine, to learn to like pump
Speaker 3: myself up despite people's thoughts about me. You know, I
Speaker 3: remember when even like an old level results came out
Speaker 3: and people were like, oh, you would have all a's
Speaker 3: and it's like no, and it's fine, Like I'm still
Speaker 3: I got the what I needed on the subjects I
Speaker 3: needed and I'm gonna be fine and I don't even
Speaker 3: think about it now. So I think it was one
Speaker 3: of those things where because of the high achieving and
Speaker 3: ZIM the way it is, I managed to create my
Speaker 3: own voice within that where it's like I don't have
Speaker 3: to achieve all of those things. I do what I
Speaker 3: want when I want to do it. And I pick
Speaker 3: and choose what I want to do. But I also
Speaker 3: think another challenging time has obviously been motherhood, because that's
Speaker 3: a whole game. Like if Jeromas are running nose, everybody
Speaker 3: would be looking at you. If he does this, everybody
Speaker 3: be judging you. Ah ah. So that because the comments
Speaker 3: come in thick and fast, I've had I find myself
Speaker 3: drawing back to that childhood where I had to be
Speaker 3: like self talk and be like no, exactly fine, it's
Speaker 3: fine and it now what's now changed with motherhood is
Speaker 3: I've had to not be vocal about it. So then
Speaker 3: when I was a child, I would just say in
Speaker 3: my brain like my parents be crazy, like it's fine,
Speaker 3: you know, but like I would never say that because
Speaker 3: I got to get the shamou child. But like now
Speaker 3: that I'm older, I can actually someone actually says something
Speaker 3: about Jerome or about motherhood, or I can challenge it
Speaker 3: and be like, no, but dude, I'm tired. Even if
Speaker 3: it's my husband, even if it's you know, a fellow
Speaker 3: co worker or whatever, I can actually challenge the notion
Speaker 3: that I need to be perfect, you know. And I
Speaker 3: think when people are confronted with it, like oh, like oh.
Speaker 3: Then they also go self introspect. Oh why was I
Speaker 3: expecting that?
Speaker 1: Off?
Speaker 3: It's right, like, yes, it's okay, let me just you know.
Speaker 3: And sometimes I've actually say to people instead of telling
Speaker 3: me what to do, I don't you do it has
Speaker 3: bookers on his nose, there's tissue there. Why don't you
Speaker 3: wipe his nose? Why why are you telling me coming?
Speaker 3: Because I'm to tell me and you just don't do
Speaker 3: it yourself. So I think it's like I've had to,
Speaker 3: like I have the muscle, yes, and now I've had
Speaker 3: to like vocally vocalize it, use it in a different
Speaker 3: way to use it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But you've always been good and something that
Speaker 1: I've admired about you, You know, you have a very
Speaker 1: strong sense of self and ability to say I don't
Speaker 1: care what you're going to say. Do you understand like
Speaker 1: you've you've always had a very good sense of self
Speaker 1: since we were young, which is very admirable, and I
Speaker 1: really like that about you. It challenges me as well.
Speaker 1: For me, the answer to the question is, I'm one
Speaker 1: hundred percent of perfectionist, and I would like to say
Speaker 1: I'm a recovering perfectionist. Still, have you know sometimes my
Speaker 1: name is Rumby, and I still have like like you know,
Speaker 1: you said the moments where.
Speaker 3: The short incident.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think for me in a way where
Speaker 1: you were like, oh, my parents tripping, I internalized it
Speaker 1: so much so that my parents need not say anything anymore.
Speaker 1: It was already within myself like.
Speaker 3: Let's go there was I.
Speaker 1: I'm the one who, you know, I would have homework.
Speaker 1: I'd be the one who's doning homework before they even
Speaker 1: say anything. They may say to my siblings, they have
Speaker 1: you have you done your homework? Or go to your homework?
Speaker 1: I was there already. They would go to bed sometimes.
Speaker 1: I remember I was in primary school. They would go
Speaker 1: to bed sometimes and I was there working on my project,
Speaker 1: making sure it's like perfect whatever. They're like, okay's doing
Speaker 1: good night, Like see like I was. I was that,
Speaker 1: And I think it had a lot to do with
Speaker 1: upbringing for sure. I think it's also inherited in a
Speaker 1: way because I've seen it in in my mom in
Speaker 1: some ways, and you know, and yeah, yeah, I'm definitely
Speaker 1: a recovering perfectionist. Do you think heavy on the recovering?
Speaker 3: Hey, we pray on the records. How do you think
Speaker 3: you've sought help, though, just how does one seek help
Speaker 3: when they're perfectionist?
Speaker 1: Therapy mm hmmm, and something that's really my sisters She'll
Speaker 1: say something to me over and over like oh, it's fine,
Speaker 1: it's not an issue, and you still are like, no,
Speaker 1: you just say that because you love me. So when
Speaker 1: you hear it, sometimes from your loved ones like Amanda
Speaker 1: or whatever, we've spoken about body image, which has always
Speaker 1: been a big thing for me, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're fine, or my husband is like, girl, I love
Speaker 1: you as you are. Whatever. It's sometimes when you hear
Speaker 1: an expert outsider who you feel has no insight into
Speaker 1: who you are tell you those things, then it like
Speaker 1: triggers this thing like oh oh so when it was
Speaker 1: these people were saying these things, they must be right.
Speaker 1: So I do recommend therapy is very helpful. It's very
Speaker 1: uncomfortable because when all you know is to be perfect,
Speaker 1: it's hard to let go and it's it's a it's
Speaker 1: a muscle that I'm still learning to practice. I think
Speaker 1: it's also helped being away from home. I think it's
Speaker 1: also helped the partner that I have, who is able
Speaker 1: and willing to share the load. For example, he knows
Speaker 1: I'm not a morning person. I used to beat myself
Speaker 1: up for not being a five am riser, you know,
Speaker 1: up and you know, breakfast is real bad. And I
Speaker 1: used to beat myself up about it. And he really
Speaker 1: was just like, it's fine. So in the morning, he'd
Speaker 1: get up earlier, give me my time to get ready,
Speaker 1: and he'd make he makes breakfast like that's the that's
Speaker 1: the thing. And learning that that's okay. But the zim
Speaker 1: Go in me was like, your man's be waking up
Speaker 1: before you to make breakfast.
Speaker 3: Oh hell no.
Speaker 1: But I've had to accept that that's who I am.
Speaker 1: And it's only honestly this year that i've really kind
Speaker 1: of to some degree except moved into that recovery.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think also the people around you, Like I
Speaker 3: feel like we talked a lot about like you just said,
Speaker 3: you know, you obviously had like friends and family who
Speaker 3: always say these things to you. Then therapy just firmed it. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: but I think some people have the opposite right where
Speaker 3: they have the family and the friends, but they're the
Speaker 3: one you exactly. I love you, but you're now holding
Speaker 3: me to this highest theme. And people also, you have
Speaker 3: to always realize there's a lot of self interest in perfectionism,
Speaker 3: so people will be like, no, do it for me,
Speaker 3: because you always do it right. So it's also like okay, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I need to have boundaries, like I'm not doing that
Speaker 3: nor more. The episode on Boundaries is exactly So I
Speaker 3: think it's like it's very crucial to surround yourself with
Speaker 3: the right people. And I will credit Australia for that
Speaker 3: for me personally, because a lot of Australians have the
Speaker 3: saying when, well, she'll be all right, which means she'll
Speaker 3: be okay, like.
Speaker 1: Fine, child, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 3: It's probably not gonna beat but will it be done? Yes,
Speaker 3: it will be done. So Amanda to Friday, Amanda, when
Speaker 3: you're tired from work and it's KFC that night, KFC,
Speaker 3: you didn't you you are? So I think it's like
Speaker 3: I've had to have adopted that aussy culture where she'll
Speaker 3: be all right, like we'll be fine, like today, I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna be guns blazing about everything. It's yes, and
Speaker 3: Zim has I've had to leave Zim to achieve that,
Speaker 3: which is really sad because whenever I go back to Zim,
Speaker 3: I always say, oh, I have to my zim cap on,
Speaker 3: and I think my zim cap is perfectionism. I'm not
Speaker 3: gonna wake up after Tom or myself. I'm gonna have
Speaker 3: to be wringing up before them to speak. First, people
Speaker 3: do the dishes, then, do you know I'm gonna have to.
Speaker 3: This is the way the world, especially patriarchal worlds, work.
Speaker 3: So I think it helps knowing your people, knowing what
Speaker 3: speaks to your soul. Where do you feel at peace?
Speaker 3: You know, because in perfectionism you're not at peace. You're
Speaker 3: just at all going going, You're in a hamster wheel.
Speaker 3: It's all. So when you find yourself not in that
Speaker 3: hamster wheel, not thinking, I think, take a second to
Speaker 3: look around who's around you, Which energies are you absorbing
Speaker 3: and pushing up against, because you probably find that those
Speaker 3: are the same people you need to have around you
Speaker 3: when you are thinking, am I going need to do this?
Speaker 3: And you do that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so crucial. It's so so crucial.
Speaker 1: That's actually I was gonna ask you a question about
Speaker 1: advice for perfectionism, and I think that's such great advice.
Speaker 1: And I surround yourself, who do you surround yourself with
Speaker 1: and around which what's your environment like if you can
Speaker 1: shift that and change that. And also, I would say
Speaker 1: Amanda mentioned in the Allyship episode, you should know you
Speaker 1: only have like five fucs to give. So in life
Speaker 1: it's like, why is this so important to you? And
Speaker 1: why do I need to care? Just ask yourself that.
Speaker 1: And for me it's even in when I panic about something,
Speaker 1: asking but why is it? And you'll find a lot
Speaker 1: of the times we don't ask ourselves like why do
Speaker 1: I feel this need? And then it makes you pause,
Speaker 1: take a step back, and you have to be willing
Speaker 1: to be honest with yourself. Hence the dark side of
Speaker 1: you that perfectionism doesn't really like. Typically it allows you
Speaker 1: to sit in that a little and you're going to
Speaker 1: have to be here's the thing. It's going to be
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable because with perfectionism we want the the comfort
Speaker 1: of like not dealing or not. It's gonna be ugly,
Speaker 1: there may be some tears, it's gonna be you feel
Speaker 1: a bit out of whack and out of who you know,
Speaker 1: what you're used to. Let's just ask yourself, why is
Speaker 1: it so important that the potato salad be perfect? What
Speaker 1: is this saying about guys. And I've used potato salad.
Speaker 1: It's a very almost like trivial issue.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but it's but it shows how bad it
Speaker 3: can be trivial stuff. Yeah, it goes deep because if
Speaker 3: you're doing that potato salad for putter salad, what are
Speaker 3: you doing for the other things that are actually important?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know we're probably having sleepless nights sleeping because exactly, Amanda,
Speaker 3: you drag.
Speaker 1: Me, drag me?
Speaker 3: I don't know, No, I'm not dragging you at all.
Speaker 3: You know the love I have for you. It's just
Speaker 3: I think we all suffer from it. We all do
Speaker 3: it like it's just I think zimbabwe and women more so.
Speaker 3: And I think this is a love letter to our
Speaker 3: Zimbabwean women out there. Our whole season has been, our
Speaker 3: Barby era has been because it's really like, why are
Speaker 3: we the way we are? You know?
Speaker 1: Because then that's why patriarchy feeds itself and attaches itself
Speaker 1: like a leech, because we already add the perfectionism.
Speaker 3: Right, so the man, the man now coming and say
Speaker 3: do everything it discoes perfectly because of like, yeah, lament
Speaker 3: to do everything. I'm a strong black woman I can
Speaker 3: do it everything, you know, so it's like no, actually,
Speaker 3: and stay away from social media if you have problems
Speaker 3: with perfectionism, because also you need to realize that that's
Speaker 3: a highlight reel. They don't. They've got lots of things
Speaker 3: they're not showing you. A lot of couples you follow
Speaker 3: on social media, you find out they broke up. There
Speaker 3: was I mean, here now we're going through our Will
Speaker 3: and Jada and his confessions period where everything meanwhile w
Speaker 3: and we're growing up. Will and Jada were the poster
Speaker 3: for you know, black power in Hollywood, So it's like,
Speaker 3: how do you you separate yourself from that? You need
Speaker 3: to realize what's real, what's fake, see through it. And
Speaker 3: I have to give kudos to some certain degree to
Speaker 3: gen Z because they also teachings that MI learning to
Speaker 3: far far, too too far, you know, so like show
Speaker 3: the real real and like I feel, that's why even
Speaker 3: TikTok probably is possibly gone. I mean, apart from the
Speaker 3: timing with the pandemic, it's also because it stripped us back.
Speaker 3: You know a lot of if you look at all
Speaker 3: the people we follow on TikTok as opposed to their Instagram,
Speaker 3: that's the perfect There's that whole line about Instagram versus
Speaker 3: reality expectations. This is reality because it's like on TikTok,
Speaker 3: they'll be there with their bonnet on telling you the
Speaker 3: realist and then you get to know their personality, their
Speaker 3: their flaws, so to. But on Instace it will be
Speaker 3: the proper shot pick, you know, the everything glam glam.
Speaker 3: So I think you just need to be very conscious
Speaker 3: of your mind and protect your soul and what you
Speaker 3: feed your mind or what you feed your soul.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Another tip I would have about perfectionists for
Speaker 1: perfectionists is looking in the mirror and when I did
Speaker 1: this and I still struggle with it to some degree,
Speaker 1: and saying what you like about yourself and just leaving
Speaker 1: it at that and leaving like if it's an imagery thing,
Speaker 1: if it's about how you look, just saying like, I
Speaker 1: love you to yourself, you may feel quite great for
Speaker 1: a little bit these are It may seem who ha,
Speaker 1: but honestly, it's just what you feed yourself. Or putting
Speaker 1: sticky notes up around like that just encourage you words
Speaker 1: of encouragement, or taking time to meditate if meditation is
Speaker 1: your thing. Journaling has been is my thing, that's that's
Speaker 1: my life saving thing where you put it out you know,
Speaker 1: and honestly just know it's okay to be weak or
Speaker 1: to not about it today and to ask for all
Speaker 1: ask for help, you know, yeah, like are you And
Speaker 1: I think and this is not this is not turning
Speaker 1: me into a therapy position when it's not meant to.
Speaker 3: Think of my therapies so much. But I think, like,
Speaker 3: also another thing that I'm like, like for our listeners
Speaker 3: to know is that it's okay to not to do
Speaker 3: the bare minimum sometimes, like it's fine to just be
Speaker 3: like brah, it will have to do and actually sit
Speaker 3: with that feeling and be happy with that feeling. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And of course if you're achieving, everything is great. But
Speaker 3: on that day when you don't, that's also great. Like
Speaker 3: it's fine. Like and I think we've been brought up
Speaker 3: to think the opposite, to be disappointed, to look at
Speaker 3: the joneses to do this and that. But really, at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, most people don't even notice
Speaker 3: all these things. We're just like, oh, because I think
Speaker 3: anyone who's to meet any of us, we think, oh,
Speaker 3: these girls are confident, have a podcast, they have these
Speaker 3: days and not see all the things underneath it, or yeah,
Speaker 3: to realize like yeah, we questioned ourselves in this podcast,
Speaker 3: or like are we doing the right thing? Are we
Speaker 3: holding the mark? Are we doing this? Are we doing that?
Speaker 3: Is our qualitifying? Is our audio? Like all these things.
Speaker 3: Then at the end of the day, it's like, but
Speaker 3: we have to just keep going, we have to keep moving,
Speaker 3: and we improve and perfect so to speak, in time
Speaker 3: and with time.
Speaker 1: And you know, speaking of this season, it's almost been
Speaker 1: like really telling of my life. I think at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the season, I talked about how I was
Speaker 1: evolving as a person, and it's quite interesting, you know,
Speaker 1: when sharing that my answer is for for posting on
Speaker 1: social media, I was like, my only word is evolving
Speaker 1: And for me, I was like, no, I need to
Speaker 1: have you know. And it was hard and it's been
Speaker 1: a journey a man and knows it's been a journey
Speaker 1: for me. You know. I left my job, I took
Speaker 1: time out, which again for perfection, it's like me very hard,
Speaker 1: very isolating and being okay with just being And it
Speaker 1: took me actually months to actually just be okay with
Speaker 1: being and letting go of that. And I share all
Speaker 1: this to say that it's it's a journey. It's very difficult,
Speaker 1: it's very confronting. But I think you also realize you
Speaker 1: cannot live life chasing perfection at your own expense, which
Speaker 1: I think I have been prone to doing. Sorry, And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think this episode is just an episode
Speaker 1: of encouragement for people who like me, like us, have
Speaker 1: struggled with perfectionism, that there's other ways to and to
Speaker 1: live truly and honestly in your truth as you are,
Speaker 1: come as you are. You know, even biblically we're told
Speaker 1: come as you are if you're religious in that way.
Speaker 1: But we struggle, and we absorb so much of what
Speaker 1: society has to offer to tell us at our expense.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know if this has been useful
Speaker 1: for anyone, this.
Speaker 3: Has been therapeutic for you, yeah, you know. So yeah,
Speaker 3: And we hold space for anyone who feels like it's
Speaker 3: become too much. I mean, one of the things with
Speaker 3: perfectionism is that, you know, comparison is a thief of joy,
Speaker 3: and when you can keep comparing yourself, you're never going
Speaker 3: to be the best in all aspects at all times,
Speaker 3: you know. And also no need to procrastinate because you
Speaker 3: want to make everything perfect. Yes, you know, like go
Speaker 3: for your dreams, go for your goals, whether they're perfect
Speaker 3: or not. You will figure it out on the way. Roomby,
Speaker 3: and I always laugh and say, even with this podcast,
Speaker 3: just delete it doesn't work out, you know, Like that's
Speaker 3: how you have to approach your life, that you have
Speaker 3: to give it a girl. You have to give it
Speaker 3: a shot. So Rumby, I'm so proud of you. We
Speaker 3: have no idea how like you're so inspiring because you
Speaker 3: always always look out for yourself and I love that,
Speaker 3: and not in a like egotistical way, but in a
Speaker 3: what can I be doing better? How can I live
Speaker 3: my life better? And a lot of people don't even
Speaker 3: question themselves. They just go mundane expecting you know, Sam
Speaker 3: is going to change, something's going to change. But you
Speaker 3: actually seek that change, You seek that evolving, and I
Speaker 3: think you're only going to be the better for it.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, And I'm thankful for you for
Speaker 1: giving me the room, the space, and the encouragement even
Speaker 1: on days when I couldn't just chill and you're just like,
Speaker 1: just chill, that's fine, you'll be fine, it's okay. Switch off.
Speaker 1: And my sister too, I definitely have to shout her
Speaker 1: out and my husband like again, can you unity is
Speaker 1: so so so important when you definitely is trying to
Speaker 1: heal from perfectionism. So thank you so much for listening
Speaker 1: the season. But before we go.
Speaker 3: Before I let you go, there you go with me?
Speaker 1: What do we gotta do? Amanda let them go?
Speaker 3: Speaking about community, we've obviously launched our website, We've obviously
Speaker 3: come a long way from season one now season five,
Speaker 3: and to close off our season, instead of doing our
Speaker 3: regular ZIM shout outs, yes, we're going to shout out
Speaker 3: our it's layered dolvers. So those people who've just been
Speaker 3: showing us love since they don't been encouraging us, especially
Speaker 3: through the socials. I know a lot of people like
Speaker 3: to look and not let themselves be known, but we
Speaker 3: love for you to let us you know, know you around,
Speaker 3: know you're listening, know what you're getting from it, what
Speaker 3: you're gleaning from our episode, because it keeps us going.
Speaker 3: As you can see, this is a vulnerable safe space
Speaker 3: and we all need to uplift each other to keep going.
Speaker 3: So this is just a shout out to our Islea
Speaker 3: Dovas we know there's plenty of you, y'all, but we
Speaker 3: had to really make this an exclusive club because we can't.
Speaker 3: We can't, but we can have the whole episode listening. Everybody. Yes,
Speaker 3: if you want to shout out, please reach out to us,
Speaker 3: give us some comments, show us some love on the socials,
Speaker 3: send us a review in mind, send us a review,
Speaker 3: subscribe rate like all those comments, all those things that
Speaker 3: the people these days say. But yeah, shout out to Couzy,
Speaker 3: Tino Derby, Drew Picks, Myself, Sonya did, Larissa, Pumi and
Speaker 3: of course Mama Doo Mama Doobs.
Speaker 1: The only on baby boomer who probably into our podcast.
Speaker 1: She loves and for sure, thank you to some of
Speaker 1: our dolvers and supporters on the social media. On x
Speaker 1: we have Chiezza Gonbetza who's always showing us love at
Speaker 1: the Manyati Melody Chinguaru Tomelo Chi Gnat from the Girls
Speaker 1: in Skies podcasts, as well as on Instagram at just
Speaker 1: some more. These are Delvers supporters who're constantly showing us love, content,
Speaker 1: constantly engaging with us, constantly hollering at us. Of course,
Speaker 1: there are many others, but we just wanted to say
Speaker 1: thank you and please, as a matter said, if you
Speaker 1: want to, if you want to shout out, call her back,
Speaker 1: send us a review comment, and don't forget to subscribe
Speaker 1: not only to the podcast, but on our website because
Speaker 1: then you'll be getting the latest details, first look at
Speaker 1: blog posts, all those fun things. So please go to
Speaker 1: our website it's laid podcast dot com and show us
Speaker 1: love there. Amanda, what a season.
Speaker 3: What a season. Please know, even though we're going on
Speaker 3: a hiatus because we need to rest, child, we'll come back.
Speaker 3: Keep your eyes peeled for something extra special. Okay, dot dot.
Speaker 1: Dot, Amanda Element, I don't know what I know. Dank you,
Speaker 1: I don't know why, love you so much for me.
Speaker 3: Loved this season, loved all our guests. Special shout out
Speaker 3: to our guests for this season. Absolutely, that would be
Speaker 3: surrou that would be Wordsy, that would be the NYE
Speaker 3: and obviously your bonus who Willsie in the mid Thanks
Speaker 3: so much for your love for coming on our Bobby
Speaker 3: Era season and we'll keep up and I on all
Speaker 3: the projects you're up to as well.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you so much. Take care of yourself, take
Speaker 1: care of each other, take care bye everyone.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 2: They will tear you ak like a pepper too. Oh
Speaker 2: no no, no, yeah yeah yeah yeah