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Speaker 1: I'm always always sir, be careful.

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Speaker 2: Love those umboo.

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Speaker 3: Let We'll use your head. They will tear you lack

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Speaker 3: a purple talk.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no.

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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Amanda and I'm Rumby.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to its lay It.

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Speaker 1: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago when we were in high school.

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Speaker 3: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything

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Speaker 3: and everything else under the sun.

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Speaker 1: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to a brand new episode of

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Speaker 1: our podcast, It's lad Podcast. How are you doing, Amanda,

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Speaker 1: Hi and me, I'm good.

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Speaker 3: How are you? I'm so hyped. I don't even know.

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Speaker 3: I'm just really hype.

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Speaker 1: We hype in this building. It's quite interesting that you're

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Speaker 1: hype because we're actually leading towards Christmas, and I've actually

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Speaker 1: been highly stressful trying to think of everything that needs

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Speaker 1: to be done. Typically, if anyone knows me, I'm actually

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Speaker 1: a huge Christmas girlie. I love Christmas. I typically like

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Speaker 1: go into decorating as early as possible, and also, but

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Speaker 1: this year I feel like I am lagging behind, and

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Speaker 1: I kind of feel like I'm failing at my essence.

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Speaker 1: The essence of Woo room be is you know. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been quite interesting for me. But other than that,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing all right. I'm doing alright. And for you

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Speaker 1: your hype, life's good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just hype, not tied to Christmas or anything.

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Speaker 3: I mean, by the time this episode is, Christmas will

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Speaker 3: be a distant memory. I'm drinking.

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Speaker 1: But sorry.

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Speaker 3: People get so like, I love Christmas, but I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like I'm not You're not a Christmas Yeah, And I

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Speaker 3: think that's it's like being a desk for a victim

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Speaker 3: of like Christmas also comes with Okay, that's the time

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Speaker 3: I work hard. Everyone's gone, time I get my paper,

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Speaker 3: like you know what I mean. Like, so I find

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Speaker 3: it hard because it's like and I think we talked

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Speaker 3: about this our Surviving Desperate episode where it's like Christmas

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Speaker 3: for me is a time when all my family is

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Speaker 3: gathered and that doesn't necessarily always tie in with actual christinies.

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Speaker 3: And I think also being here with like so multicultural,

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Speaker 3: I'm close to people who don't celebrate Christmas, like Chinese

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Speaker 3: New Year, Lunar New year is huge here, so it's like,

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Speaker 3: then what is Christmas? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get you.

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Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, it's like when you stund some people

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Speaker 3: who have a different version of Christmas, then you start

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Speaker 3: to think, oh, okay, there are.

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Speaker 1: The things, Yeah, there are other things. Yeah, and the

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Speaker 1: Western world we really emphasize it. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: for me it's because since I was a kid, it

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Speaker 1: was always a big thing. Yeah what you said, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a big deal.

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Speaker 3: So it's yea zim trust me. It's such a huge

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Speaker 3: Christmas box the box, like I mean the last year

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Speaker 3: when we went Hamburg together, I mean, can I let

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Speaker 3: the people know that this Christmas will be in Australia together.

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Speaker 3: So maybe that's why I'm hyped because I'm hosting this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I do, I do plan to be. Maybe I'm

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Speaker 3: the Christmas girly for you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's what's something, that's what that makes sense,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you very much. But yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: our season finale, Amanda. We've actually come to the end

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Speaker 1: of season five. I feel like two seconds ago we're

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Speaker 1: saying welcome to season five. We can't believe it's season five.

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Speaker 1: And now We've hit the finale of season five.

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Speaker 3: And so much happened this season. Our fiftieth milestone happened.

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Speaker 3: I mean this this season had the most guests we've

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Speaker 3: always have done in the last season. Yeah, so it's

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Speaker 3: like just being giving. This season has just been giving.

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Speaker 3: I really have been feeling our Bobby era. Why reckon

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Speaker 3: we even talked about Bobby era always down the Bobby

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Speaker 3: Era track.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question because I never thought I

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Speaker 1: was a Bobby girl. I've never really been a Bobby girl. Actually,

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Speaker 1: Amanda fun Fact got me my first ever Bobby. Did

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Speaker 1: I say this already on the podcast. I never had

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Speaker 1: a Bobby like growing up, but and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I never even go to Bobby. And then Amanda was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, here you go, here's your Bobby, your friend.

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Speaker 1: We really, I guess both of us watched the Bobby movie,

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Speaker 1: as we've said in previous episodes, and watching that film,

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Speaker 1: it was so different to the Bobby we grew up knowing.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Bobby of affection. You know, white, skinny,

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Speaker 1: long hair that looks nothing like my hair, you know,

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Speaker 1: things like that. We grew up in that era. But

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Speaker 1: there's a very crucial moment in the movie spoiler alert

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Speaker 1: if you've not already watched it, where Gloria played by

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Speaker 1: America Ferrara, has this monologue and she's talking about how

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Speaker 1: exhausting it is to be a woman. And I'll just

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Speaker 1: quote like one or two lines from her speech which

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Speaker 1: really resonated with me. She says, like, we have to

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Speaker 1: always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong. Imagine,

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Speaker 1: and she goes on this old spiel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely share the monologue on our socials

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Speaker 3: when the episode drops. For those of you haven't seen it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but just one of the lines, you have to

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Speaker 1: be thin but not too thin, and you can never

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Speaker 1: say you want to be thin. So this you're left

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Speaker 1: in this sort of I don't know what do you

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Speaker 1: call it?

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Speaker 3: Like do you have to say I want to be healthy?

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Speaker 3: And what is healthy?

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's so confusing. So I think that when you

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Speaker 1: spoke to us, because it really ties in with perfectionism,

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Speaker 1: which is something that you know, we'll go more into

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Speaker 1: depth with this episode, but it's really just like, man,

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Speaker 1: there's no winning. It's a conundrum. Actually that's what I

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Speaker 1: was looking It's a conundrum because you have to be

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Speaker 1: thin but not too thin. You can't say you want

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Speaker 1: to be thin, because you have to say you want

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Speaker 1: to be healthy. But what is healthy and what does

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Speaker 1: being healthy look like? And how do you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you always have to be part of

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Speaker 3: the sisterhood, she said, like you always have to root

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Speaker 3: for other women, you know. And it's like, yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 3: And it's a dichotomy, right, like, yeah, you want to

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Speaker 3: be perfect, but there's all these things fighting against that,

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Speaker 3: and then even wanting to be perfect, is that right?

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, and this makes me think, what is perfectionism?

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Speaker 3: To your room being?

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Speaker 1: Now, through a lot of work, I've come to learn

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Speaker 1: that perfectionism is a lie. It's a facade. I'm not

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Speaker 1: actually defining it. I think a man is asking for

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Speaker 1: the definition. But I really come to learn that it's

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Speaker 1: a facade. And the definition of perfectionism would be to

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Speaker 1: be perfect. But what does it mean to be perfect

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Speaker 1: or to do things exactly or beyond the ideal level?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I think there's a difference between excelling

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Speaker 1: and being and perfectionism. I think they marked difference between

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Speaker 1: the two. How would you define it? Because I failed

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Speaker 1: all I've said is.

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Speaker 3: Ad No, Well, it's the word describes itself being perfect

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Speaker 3: or ticking all them boxes at high level, not just

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Speaker 3: not average. Do Yeah, So I think, yeah, that is perfectionism, right,

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Speaker 3: getting everything right. You know, the man is fair, or

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Speaker 3: you've got a man or a woman, if whatever your

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Speaker 3: sexual orientation is. The kids are fit. If you've got kids,

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Speaker 3: you know, they look absolutely amazing, nothing's wrong with them.

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Speaker 3: The family is all set, nothing's wrong, Like, there is

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong, no flaws right, and we are imperfectly perfect

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Speaker 3: human beings with lots of flaws. So it's such a

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Speaker 3: dichotomy between that, like it's like, Okay, how are we,

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Speaker 3: as flawed human beings going to be perfect to begin with?

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Speaker 3: We're a ready set up for failure in this perfect scenario.

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Speaker 3: And I think for me, it's almost the beast that's

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Speaker 3: constantly on our shoulders. Yes, throughout life, you know, doing

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Speaker 3: everything right, doing everything is expected, all the things we've

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Speaker 3: talked about, you know now that I think about it,

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Speaker 3: from our first episode, very first episode, very first season,

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Speaker 3: all the way are rooted and perfectionism because it's like

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Speaker 3: you're not meeting them mark perfect class, your problem, You're

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Speaker 3: not the Yeah, you're problematic. You know your parenting wasn't right,

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Speaker 3: You're what kind of finances? Like everything we've talked about

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Speaker 3: has seed from perfectionism, because that's just like you have

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Speaker 3: had to have had it right to begin with, and

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Speaker 3: then now when you don't, it's a path.

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Speaker 1: It's a problem that's so deep, which brings to question

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Speaker 1: when how do you think it all came about? This

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Speaker 1: idea of perfectionism? Where does it stem from? How did

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Speaker 1: it come about? And maybe in relation to our who

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Speaker 1: we are, our culture, our cultural background and where we

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Speaker 1: come from. What is the root cause perfectionism?

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Speaker 3: I think I guess comparison and it spoke about this

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Speaker 3: comparison culture. But I think you think you're perfect until

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Speaker 3: you look in the other lane. Right, Yes, you think

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Speaker 3: you're fine, You think you're good, and does someone says

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Speaker 3: you're not?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: And I see it now, this is going to be

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Speaker 3: so like we're gonna be doulving today. Can I see

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Speaker 3: it now? When I look at Jerome, he does not

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Speaker 3: think he's not perfect, like oh boy thinks everything is

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Speaker 3: does is?

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Speaker 1: Like for me, he's so cutey for me.

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Speaker 3: I just did that. I just climbed the stair clip

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Speaker 3: for me, you know, so it's like, how do we

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Speaker 3: lose that someone along the way is gonna go that's

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Speaker 3: not that great? Yeah yeah, wow, you're not that cute.

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Speaker 3: You're cute, You're too big, you're too thin, You to this,

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Speaker 3: you to that, someone's gonna come and shutter at some

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Speaker 3: point that image you have of yourself, you know, even

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Speaker 3: if you want to take it to religion. I mean

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Speaker 3: a lot of us we know God made us perfectly.

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Speaker 3: Is the whole notion right when you read the Bible

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Speaker 3: that everything is great about us? That you know, and

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Speaker 3: then it's say, okay, so at what point did we

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Speaker 3: then allow shame and allow distrust of that notion to

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Speaker 3: come in? Yeah, well, at a time when we were

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Speaker 3: just like.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, I think in the biblically it would be when

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Speaker 1: Eve ate the fruit exactly.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's back to our beginning story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right. It's scary, scary, re and I

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Speaker 1: think also it stems from you spoke about an episode

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Speaker 1: of Allyship about the ego and where it's like you

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Speaker 1: feel threatened and it comes as a Mander says from comparison,

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Speaker 1: you feel threatened. So you're like, ah, you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be like this, So hence things like classism, you're not

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Speaker 1: like me, I'm threatened. You know, You're not this racism,

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Speaker 1: You're not that.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: There's so many elements. It's like the ego of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have to be better than someone else. Yeah, can't

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Speaker 1: you just be exactly?

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Speaker 3: And who said how do you think it presents in

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Speaker 3: our day to day life though? Because obviously we've taken

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Speaker 3: it fine and talked about religion and whatever. But just

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Speaker 3: as you as a black woman, as a black woman

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Speaker 3: in modern society, how do you think it presents in

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Speaker 3: your day to day life.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's just take it like today's Sunday when we're recording,

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Speaker 1: and typically on a Sunday, it's like getting ready for

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Speaker 1: the week. So as a woman, it's like, Okay, have

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Speaker 1: we eaten breakfast? Have I changed the bedding, Have I

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Speaker 1: done laundry? Have I cleaned the house? Have I water

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Speaker 1: the plants? Have I cooked or meal prepped? Have I

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Speaker 1: prepared for work?

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Speaker 3: Have I done some self care?

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Speaker 1: Done some self care?

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Speaker 3: Have I met up with the girlies for branch?

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Speaker 1: Have I spoken to my family and friends? Have I

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Speaker 1: been there for my partner? Have I It's like this

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Speaker 1: over and it used to sit on me heavy that,

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Speaker 1: like have I ticked? You know, you will do the

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Speaker 1: most and still be like, oh but I forgot to

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Speaker 1: take out the trash something I'm giving an example. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so just from like a household thing's it's it's insane.

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Speaker 1: And then of course it happens in the workplace. You know,

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Speaker 1: have I performed enough? Am I? Am I showing my worth?

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Speaker 1: Do they value me? And so you keep pushing to

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Speaker 1: try and be the perfect whatever employee or whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like bruh, yeah, you'll never meet the

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Speaker 1: mark ever. Ever, I don't know for you.

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Speaker 3: No, oh for sure. And it purds out in so

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Speaker 3: many ways because some stuff we can be ridiculously like

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Speaker 3: esteemed in this whole idea of being perfect, and some

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Speaker 3: stuff were like willing to let go. So even something

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Speaker 3: depends on each person is different, right. Some people will

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Speaker 3: be like, oh my god, I have eat clean, go

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Speaker 3: to the gym, I look like this. My body is

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Speaker 3: like this and my man never sees me with that makeup,

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Speaker 3: have my hair dad, have my nails like. It can

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Speaker 3: be like that, or it can also just be like

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Speaker 3: the way you think, like what she said, taking off

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Speaker 3: your list of it can be like with your family, Okay,

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Speaker 3: have I done people pleasing? Have I done everything for

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Speaker 3: everyone else and left myself nothing? So it's like it

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Speaker 3: just literally some people might have the whole gamut and

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Speaker 3: some people could just have this one thing in one

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Speaker 3: specific error. Yeah, I'm like, I have to be you know.

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Speaker 3: And then I find like for women generally and maybe

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Speaker 3: men's different. I mean I would love to for our

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Speaker 3: listeners to let us know, our male listeners to let

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Speaker 3: us know, but for women, it feels like we have

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Speaker 3: to be across the board, yes, whereas with men usually

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Speaker 3: they'll be like, I like salad work, I'm a CEO.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing the things, but when I get home, it's

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Speaker 3: feed up video game, you know, like the I don't

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Speaker 3: have to do the bedding. I don't have to do that.

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Speaker 3: But it's like for us as women, it's like every

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Speaker 3: we go, every we go, like everything we do, everything

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Speaker 3: we touch, even if you do go to the gym,

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Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, I have to be the best, I

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Speaker 3: look the best, I have to have the best offic

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Speaker 3: after like it's like it's like never yeah, it's never ending.

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Speaker 1: It's and another example would be if you've ever seen

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Speaker 1: or heard of people who have like real OCD, like

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Speaker 1: people jerk. I have OCD, but have real OCD how

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Speaker 1: things have to line up and perfect. It can manifest

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Speaker 1: in those really visible ways, but it's also within us

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Speaker 1: in different ways. You know, for example, someone I'll give

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Speaker 1: a personal example. We're on holiday with friends and I

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Speaker 1: made a potato salad. I had made like I marinated

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Speaker 1: meat for the barbecue. I'd made like other food, salad, gravy, everything,

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Speaker 1: set things out nicely, ready to eat or whatever. And

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Speaker 1: then we're eating the potato salad and the potatoes were

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Speaker 1: little bit two, not soft enough, and I remember everyone

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Speaker 1: ate they were like happy, like oh this is great,

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Speaker 1: loved it, whatever, But the potato salad thing was stuck

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Speaker 1: in my brain like I was like it was horrible

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Speaker 1: because the potato salad was not perfect. Do you understand,

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, and for and it can happen, And you know,

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Speaker 1: someone else was like, oh really it was not an issue,

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Speaker 1: but for you in that lane, it's like data salad

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Speaker 1: was not.

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Speaker 3: Perfect, and then it super sedes.

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Speaker 1: Yes everything you've done girl, like you've done ten other dishes. Yes,

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Speaker 1: which already is a feet in itself, yes, but now

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Speaker 1: you're going to obsess about the potato marinade, about that

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Speaker 1: one thing. Yep, exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's not perfect because in your your your your lunch

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Speaker 3: or your dinner wasn't perfect, right, yes, potato salad.

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Speaker 1: And it's in your head and you stuck with it

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Speaker 1: until my therapist was like, girl, I think it's fine.

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Speaker 1: Like literally, when she said it to me, she's like, what, like,

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Speaker 1: you know until someone So that's you know, another example.

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Speaker 1: But do you think perfectionism is damaging? And how so?

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Speaker 3: I do think it's damaging because none of us are perfect,

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Speaker 3: and yet we're all in this rat race of trying

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Speaker 3: to be you know, whether the rat race is yours

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Speaker 3: personally or on a grander scale. People compare between siblings,

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Speaker 3: people compare between like workmates, yeah, you know lovers, People

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Speaker 3: leave boyfriends and girlfriends there because they're not that perfect person.

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Speaker 3: Like it's it can be damaging, but is so isolating,

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Speaker 3: Like as you just said, everyone was like, my god,

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Speaker 3: the lunch was yummy, the dinner was yummy, but you

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Speaker 3: are now in your own little world, but potato salad

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Speaker 3: and nobody else is in there with you, and like,

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Speaker 3: now maybe you didn't enjoy the rest of the day,

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Speaker 3: Like even if you reflect on it, you know, and

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Speaker 3: there are memories to be made, moments to be had.

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Speaker 3: But because potato salad wasn't perfectly know what I mean

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Speaker 3: like it so and when someone else explains it to you,

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Speaker 3: as you said your therapist did, it sounds so like

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Speaker 3: the of course, but when you're in it, you're in

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Speaker 3: it isolating. You're isolating. Is that that feeling?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely? And I think too, as humans, as Amanda said earlier,

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Speaker 1: we are imperfect and with perfectionism, you are holding yourself

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Speaker 1: up to a standard that's unrealistic, but also saying that

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Speaker 1: ugly parts of yourself are not okay. So you live

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Speaker 1: a life of self hate and self judgment where you

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Speaker 1: cannot embrace yourself fully. So in our life we have

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Speaker 1: our dark sides. We all have dark side Like nobody

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Speaker 1: nobody is like angelic. It's impossible. And so you're you're

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Speaker 1: hating on the dark side, your flaws, and you imagine

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Speaker 1: you live your whole life without fully accepting self with

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Speaker 1: that level. And it can come through not necessarily physically,

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Speaker 1: like yes, of course we're quick to say, oh I

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Speaker 1: wish I had you know, stronger carves or whatever. But

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Speaker 1: it can manifest. And I wish I was smarter in

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Speaker 1: this way. I wish I was more able to be

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Speaker 1: oriented with directions, or I could keep time more perfectly,

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Speaker 1: I could do. You understand what I'm saying, And then

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Speaker 1: you live this thing, this life, with a constant state

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Speaker 1: of you are not good enough constantly and so hence

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Speaker 1: why if you're in a relationship with someone who is abusive.

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Speaker 1: We also spoke about abuse on this on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: and they're saying you're not good enough. You can understand

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Speaker 1: why people feeding it's feeding the beasts, and why they

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Speaker 1: stay in the relationship to try and prove that no,

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Speaker 1: I can be perfect.

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Speaker 3: Just see let me try, let me show yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: a damaging relationship exactly.

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Speaker 1: So it then manifests in other areas and it's just

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Speaker 1: like the snowball.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And we've talked about mental health before, were two

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Speaker 3: broke twimbos, because that just sounds like anxiety driven to me,

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Speaker 3: like you know, you're now you're now in your mind

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Speaker 3: all the time, and instead of being in the now

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Speaker 3: sort of enjoying them now, you're just like forever living

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Speaker 3: Because a lot of times it's retrospect, right, yes, so

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Speaker 3: now you're forever living in the past. Oh I could

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Speaker 3: have done that. Oh why don't I do this? And

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Speaker 3: it's just like it's draining and the mental load it

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Speaker 3: takes could be used for other things.

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Speaker 1: More productive things, bro. And also it can be future driven,

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Speaker 1: right because you're like perfect Christmas, I have to There's

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Speaker 1: this movie on Netflix, a Christmas movie with Brandy and

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Speaker 1: did her friend goes to visit her or something. I

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Speaker 1: only watched like a few minutes because I can do it, okay,

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Speaker 1: But the friend was like, she's so perfect. No, I

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Speaker 1: can be perfect in life? Is so perfect and like that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like that thing of like I have

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Speaker 1: to have the perfect Christmas, the perfect house, the perfect husband,

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Speaker 1: perfect kid's perfect. It's perfect, perfec factly imperfect, like it

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Speaker 1: cannot exist. It does. So it also in the past,

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Speaker 1: so anxiety inducing in the past, anxiety inducing thinking about

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Speaker 1: the future. If I don't do this.

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Speaker 3: And then you're not living, yeah yeah, yeah. Do you

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Speaker 3: think it can ever be helpful? Though?

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Speaker 1: I think as humanity, as humans, why we've survived so

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Speaker 1: long in this world is our constant growth and pushing

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Speaker 1: ourselves to the next level to do better and be better.

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Speaker 1: I do think sometimes we confuse that with perfectionism, but

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Speaker 1: it's actually just excellence and growth. And oftentimes the things

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Speaker 1: that propel humanity forward are birthed or out of necessity

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Speaker 1: or struggle. So if you think about struggle and necessity,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't happen in perfect conditions, because if things are perfect,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't have a need to figure out okay, instead

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Speaker 1: of me having to get on a boat for weeks

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Speaker 1: on end to go from Africa to America or from

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Speaker 1: Africa to Asia, what if I could fly there? Now?

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Speaker 1: The conditions are not ideal, right, because you know, you

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Speaker 1: get sickness, see sickness, People die all sorts of issues,

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Speaker 1: and so the conditions are not So if there were

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Speaker 1: perfect conditions, if it was just like a seamless huh,

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Speaker 1: I'm there and it takes one second, you wouldn't need

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Speaker 1: to create the right brothers wouldn't have had to invent

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Speaker 1: a plane. You understand what I'm saying. So I think

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Speaker 1: there's a false narrative. We tell ourselves that things have

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Speaker 1: to be perfect in order to be good, but actually

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Speaker 1: it's the imperfections that help us to move forward. As

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Speaker 1: humanity and society. I think we confuse perfectionism with excellence

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Speaker 1: a lot of the time, and it's difficult sometimes to

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Speaker 1: separate the two.

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Speaker 3: So it's a thin line.

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Speaker 1: It's a thin line, you know. And I think I've

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Speaker 1: come to know that. I don't think perfectionism is rooted

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Speaker 1: in good things at the heart of it. It seems

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Speaker 1: like it is, but it's it's like not really, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what you think. I don't know if I've

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Speaker 1: answered the question.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I think like I look at it

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Speaker 3: so black and white, like obviously it's helpful in some careers,

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Speaker 3: like I don't want a pilot to not be perfect

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Speaker 3: in my child. If I'm flying, it's because you made

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Speaker 3: me think about flying room or like a surgeon or like.

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Speaker 3: So there's some times when we are called to a

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Speaker 3: higher power, are called to a higher esteem, and we

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Speaker 3: have to be on an a gain. That's what they say,

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Speaker 3: that on your a gaining. And I know people can think, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's overachieving. But even in that overachieving, or even in

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Speaker 3: that seeking excellence, for those ten minutes or fifteen minutes

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Speaker 3: or whatever long it takes you, you have to do

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Speaker 3: something in a perfect way, but to live like that

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Speaker 3: all the time is unsustainable. So even the surgeon is

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Speaker 3: going to do your surgery right, you know, your pilot's

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Speaker 3: gonna land the plane, but he doesn't. It doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: mean when he steps out that plane it has to

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Speaker 3: continue being years in that state of perfection, do you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean? So I think it's like a

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Speaker 3: time and a place thing for it. But what I

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Speaker 3: think happens is that we get addicted to that feeling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I can do that, I'm because there's also ego

430
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 3: what you said before, roomy. So so some of it

431
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 3: is very introspective and some of it is very like

432
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 3: people praising you. Right, pilot lands the plane, the whole plane.

433
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 3: You know, the pilot's gonna come out like dot that

434
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,239
Speaker 3: you know.

435
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: So it's like then you go, oh my, just the

436
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: regular you might not be, you know, like surgeon that

437
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: known typically their attitudes, their personas.

438
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 3: Are like mister confident, mister, arrogant, mister. They're known to

439
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: have that pompous and genermanization.

440
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: Because it's probably fed by that achieving you know, and

441
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: like men, I feel like that's the part where we

442
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: can't switch it.

443
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 3: Our brains love dopamine. Yes, and we can't switch it

444
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 3: on and off. Yes, and that's why we then keep

445
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 3: speaking it all in all areas of life. Meanwhile, it's like, Okay,

446
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: you're only meant to do that perfectly for like ten

447
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 3: fifteen and then let it go. But you're now like

448
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: trying to have that feeling everywhere. And I think it

449
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 3: is like a drug where you kind of like get

450
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 3: addicted to. But there's something we're getting out of it.

451
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 3: Because even when you are perfect, if you had done

452
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 3: your dinner room be perfectly, you probably would have found

453
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 3: something else exactly, you know what I mean exactly in

454
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 3: this constant state of how can I find this? And

455
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: when you're making design or crafting something or working on

456
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 3: someone or it's needed to have that yes, and it's

457
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 3: helpful to have that nitpick like how can I do

458
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 3: that better? How can I you know?

459
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: Not like then excellence, That's what I'm saying. It's like,

460
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: I think we really are no.

461
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 3: But I think excellence still gives room for flaws, whereas

462
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: perfectionism doesn't. You have to do it from start to

463
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 3: finish with that same energy. You can't be like, oh yeah,

464
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: you know, but on that it's okay, I'm going to

465
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 3: handball that. Like it's like you have to be on

466
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 3: that higher level of For me anyway, I think like

467
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 3: because I feel like excellent and overachievement or being above

468
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 3: are like I'm the same, but there's still room for

469
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 3: like tweaking, whereas with perfectionism there's no tweaks.

470
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: It's like, sure, that's how I think we're saying the

471
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: same thing, but using different language. I think maybe for

472
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: me the language now of perfectionism, I approach with caution because,

473
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: as you say, I think a surgeon should do it

474
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: extremely well, like you should be able to stitch you

475
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: up and do the things that needs to be done exceptionally. Well,

476
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: maybe exceptional is what I would use, so to be

477
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: able to do something exceptionally. But you're so right about that, Dopamine.

478
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: I think we are supposed to tap into that level

479
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: of exceptional perfectionism in your words, at a certain point

480
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: and then retreat from that. And I think at a

481
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: level of exceptional and that perfection, as the pilot lines

482
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: a plane, you have to be tapped in. And it's

483
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: not just you. I think you almost tap into a

484
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: higher version of yourself. It's almost like, I don't know

485
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: how to explain this. I mean, all our diaries are perfect, exactly.

486
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: No one as a god in every religion, the god

487
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: is perfect. Yes, So then you tie in, you tap

488
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: into that level in exactly chase that, and I think

489
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 1: it's very true. Also we see with celebrity ease. I

490
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: was watching the Robbie Williams documentary, and you really realize

491
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: that chasing that that people love me, people accept me,

492
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: people like me as I am, and they think I'm fantastic.

493
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: And as soon as there's an element of doubt or

494
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: someone saying, oh maybe I don't like you so much,

495
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: it's the crumble. Do you understand what I'm saying? So

496
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: it's like it really is a drug, And then aren't

497
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: I accept it? I'm perfect? Can't I be?

498
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 3: And that's why it's not sustainable. You need to realize

499
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 3: that it can be sought and retreated, but I don't

500
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,959
Speaker 3: think it's meant to be sought often. And I do

501
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 3: think it's meant to be sought as needed, But it's

502
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 3: that we love that feeling, So then we end up

503
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: staying in that place, in that state.

504
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: And it's unsustainable. But are there different types of perfectionism.

505
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 3: I think so, Like, I think there's societal where people

506
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 3: are like, you know, your mother, you should do this,

507
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: you should do that.

508
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: I don't have my stuff for those high standards, like

509
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: why do you your wife? You know, how can you

510
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: deal let your husband not have sex?

511
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: How can you dal let your you know, students, you know,

512
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 3: I expect better from your room me. You're usually my

513
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 3: a star student, Like, you can't have a bad day,

514
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: you can't have stresses. So I think there's like there's

515
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 3: different types where people ask us to tap into perfectionism

516
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: or ask us to tap into excellence or overachieving or

517
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: you know, just doing things well. And then that's why

518
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 3: even our bodies, right, like oh my god, you have

519
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 3: a great body when you're twenty five, when you're forty five. Really,

520
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 3: most times it's not going to look exactly the same

521
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 3: as it looks like you're twenty five, naturally, and then

522
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 3: we want to tap into it, like because we're like,

523
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 3: oh no, I used to look good, but it's like,

524
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: but you've changed, You've grown your body, your face shows

525
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: your life, you know. But yet we're trying to be

526
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: like no boattox, I can't be having wrinkles. So I

527
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: feel like it's all some stuff as visual, so your

528
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 3: body image and all that stuff, and some stuff like internal.

529
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 3: Some stuff is within families. You're the you're the firstborn son,

530
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: you're the first daughter, you're the you know that the

531
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: siblings after you can fail and flounder, but you have

532
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 3: to be like yeah, I feel like there's different types

533
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: from different people.

534
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yoh, there's no winning in this life.

535
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a right, wrap it up?

536
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. I have nothing more to add. It's

537
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: just it's complex.

538
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that's the true. Do you think

539
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: society having said that encourages or discouraged, discourages the notion

540
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 3: of yes, affectionism.

541
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: Yes, thousand, they encourage, they encourage it. And when you know,

542
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of myself as a young Zimbabwean girl growing

543
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: up and Ziva mun like no, everyone morosam in order,

544
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: wash hands in the correct order, in the correct order,

545
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: who's who, give food out in the correct order. Don't

546
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: complain if they're telling you to run up and down

547
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: and then never mind when you eat, never mind. Yosada

548
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: needs to be perfect. You need to be able to

549
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: do it like that like this, yo yo, yo, and

550
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: I think and it's praised right and they are not

551
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: going it's so smart. Oh god, straight a's Oh did

552
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: did that? You know we praise a lot. We rarely

553
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: praise people who fall and are able to still keep going,

554
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: for example, like you know, like I've made a mistake,

555
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: but I'm choosing to still get up. We don't praise that. Really,

556
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, you have to be perfect for you.

557
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: It's so sad, right, and I think you're right, Like

558
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: I mean, Zimbabwean society definitely encourages perfectionism, like don't talk

559
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: to no boys when you're in high school. Then get

560
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: yourself the right man. Yes, it's like, okay, how do

561
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: I jump from no boys to a man? And then

562
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: after that, I I have the kids. Make sure you

563
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 3: have a boy because you have to carry the name.

564
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: Then have a girl maybe after so you know, they

565
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 3: have siblings and they can play together. Like everything is

566
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 3: just like oh, in the midst of this, oh, did

567
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 3: you make sure you brought your house?

568
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah?

569
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 3: You know, make sure you drive a nice car, like

570
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: make sure you're not just driving school or school, like

571
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: you're actually driving a proper car. Like it's like, okay,

572
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: how do I make sure you go to church? Yes,

573
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: make sure you Yes, It's like, okay, how do I

574
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: remain skinny?

575
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: Like it's just like everything is, Oh, they don't be

576
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: too skinny because then you look like you don't also

577
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: got man like, it's just.

578
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: Like, how do you keep up with everything?

579
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: Keeping up appearances?

580
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 3: I mean our podcast, I feel just wiring. We probably

581
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 3: tied this whole season while so perfectly in the beginning,

582
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: but like it's because our whole podcast is based on

583
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: this dichotomy of how do we achieve all these things

584
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 3: that I expected of us? Yes, when we are and

585
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 3: sometimes you don't even expect it of yourself. You like,

586
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: I wasn't even thinking of this, but now you put

587
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: this idea in my hair and my name to be

588
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: this person, and I need to do these things. And

589
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: this is not the right order it should have been in.

590
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: Yes, you start beating yourself and berating yourself from not

591
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: doing that. If anyone has a great example actually is

592
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: if you watch when we were younger, there was keeping

593
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: up appearances, a show about the Bouquet residence is actually

594
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: they was bucket, but she calls off the Bouquet and

595
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: how she used to flawdin like like struggle to try

596
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: and maintain this perfection. But half the time she was failing,

597
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: and she.

598
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 3: Didn't want their neighbors to see and everyone knew already.

599
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: Child husband was so over it, yes, exactly, but now

600
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 3: you act to just be alone for the ride.

601
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: And it was such a great example of how perfectionism

602
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: is so ridiculous because so what doesn't even exist. You're

603
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: even denying your name because you're trying to to be

604
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: this perfect yeah.

605
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 3: Whatever from the certain class or certain background.

606
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So that's a good. That's a good. And

607
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: then there's keeping up with the Joneses and all.

608
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 3: That those kind of And I think for me, what

609
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 3: also hurts about is that it can be personal. Right,

610
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 3: so it's okay if society at large, but even sometimes

611
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: people have husbands. There's this whole notion on TikTok at

612
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 3: the moment. Obviously, I'm on mother Talk, so there's like

613
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: this whole notion of they are single moms in marriages.

614
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: And the whole thing is because men think, oh, you

615
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 3: can go to work, you can feed the kids, you

616
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,439
Speaker 3: can the kids need to look bright, like here's kept

617
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 3: everything's perfect, and you are too at the same time,

618
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 3: and it's like, Okay, how do I do this with

619
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 3: no help, with no no nothing from you. It's all me.

620
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: It's all everything that you're doing. And I've been making

621
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 3: sure everything stays done, but I don't getting input. So

622
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 3: I think we also have these notions about our gender roles, right,

623
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 3: something we spoke about because it's like, is that actually right?

624
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 3: That women need to do everything and for the kids?

625
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: Like we know, even with dinner, people are like, oh,

626
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: so what's for dinner tonight? And look at the mom.

627
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 3: It's like, well, why don't you look at dad and

628
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 3: also ask what's for dinner? Like that should just be

629
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 3: completely normal. But then it's like that pressure society has

630
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 3: put from the nineteen fifties, they're still there told now

631
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 3: that women are the housewife and they also go to work.

632
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 3: You know, it's like they can't do it all. I

633
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 3: think perfectionism always fights that, and that's why Rumby and

634
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: I are saying, you tap into it, if at all,

635
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: and then you retreat because you cannot operate on that

636
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 3: level for every single thing and not have burnout, and

637
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 3: not have mental fatigue, not have mental loading, not have

638
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 3: something fall on the wayside, like you're juggling so many

639
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 3: things in the same twenty four hours. What's that thing

640
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four hours in the day, And it's like, yeah,

641
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 3: but you have to also take care of yourself. I

642
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: think society doesn't give that space. They just keep encouraging

643
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 3: that everything's done.

644
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: And people say, for example, we all have the same

645
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: twenty four hours as Beyonce, but Beyonce is told that

646
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: she don't cook.

647
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 3: That's no, they don't cook.

648
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: So I'm just saying it just shows you like something has.

649
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: Gone and she has a team of people, it's not like.

650
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: Exactly, and also.

651
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: She ain't changing them nippeens, I'm exactly.

652
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: And I think for me, my sister actually said this

653
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: to me. She was like, people judge, for example, stay

654
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: at home mom's and say, oh, you're not doing anything.

655
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: She was like, do you understand the mental fatigue it

656
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: takes as a woman in a household, because yes, the

657
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: kids go off to school and you're at home. But

658
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: now you're thinking, Okay, so and so's birthday is coming up,

659
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: what are you going to do for that? We need

660
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: to buy this, we need to do this, and just

661
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: in even and I find that happens with me even

662
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: if I'm just quote unquote chilling on the couch, I'll

663
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: be busy like thinking of, okay, this is coming up.

664
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: We need to make sure we have this, this is this,

665
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 1: we need to do that. Have we done this? Your

666
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: constantly It's like the brain is constantly feeling like you

667
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: need to do this because guess what if you don't

668
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: have that gift for Jerome's homies birthday, they well they

669
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: look at your.

670
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 3: House, but they all look at the husband and they

671
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 3: won't look at Jerome exactly, but that exact thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

672
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 3: it's funny because there's a clip. Also you talked about

673
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 3: Bobbie movie. But also just like that, they share about

674
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 3: she I think she lets her husband do a lot

675
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 3: of the chores for once, and obviously things are falling

676
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: apart because for if.

677
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: Anyone wants to know, it's for the the series Sex

678
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: and the City like series.

679
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, like they did a sequel and just like that,

680
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 3: and just like David, Yes, and she's talking to her

681
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 3: husband and like it's like one of those things like

682
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 3: and he's complaining that, oh, everything's falling apart, and she's like, no,

683
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 3: it's because now I'm asking you guys to also do it,

684
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 3: and I've been doing it. I've been checking these things.

685
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 3: I've been so yes, just because you've done a couple

686
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: of dinners and a couple of birthday presents and a

687
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 3: couple of whatever whatever else doesn't mean that now I

688
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: owe you all of this. It shows the pressure that

689
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 3: partners put on each other that you know he expects

690
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 3: that it's done, and she's like, well, I'm also human

691
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 3: to the way you are. I also have fatigue and

692
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 3: I shouldn't have to be performing perfectly at all times.

693
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 3: So I'll share that one as well. Yeah, we'll share

694
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 3: it with you.

695
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: And also, how a dad will you know, be carrying

696
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: their child and they were like, oh, such a great dad.

697
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 3: It's like you, that's your child.

698
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: I was cuddling your child or like pushing the prime

699
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: or like things like that. It's like, it's also a child. Hey,

700
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: it's also But would you say, okay, let's get to

701
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: we've we've talked high level, let's get into it. Would

702
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: you say you are a perfectionist and how has your

703
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: journey with it been.

704
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 3: I would say I've always been a high achiever school,

705
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 3: so I guess that's where I practiced trying to be perfect,

706
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, And the same as you

707
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 3: saying when you cooked, you had this one dish. For

708
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 3: me it was the opposite, like I could have straight

709
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 3: a's and then one B somewhere, and then my parents

710
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: would like hone in on that, like why are you

711
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 3: doing this? You know? Why is this not perfect? So,

712
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: like I think I learned to deal with the disappointment

713
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: that perfectionism when you're not perfect comes with very early on,

714
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 3: to be like okay, no, but it's okay. I still

715
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 3: got to be I'm fine, to learn to like pump

716
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 3: myself up despite people's thoughts about me. You know, I

717
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 3: remember when even like an old level results came out

718
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 3: and people were like, oh, you would have all a's

719
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 3: and it's like no, and it's fine, Like I'm still

720
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: I got the what I needed on the subjects I

721
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: needed and I'm gonna be fine and I don't even

722
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 3: think about it now. So I think it was one

723
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 3: of those things where because of the high achieving and

724
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 3: ZIM the way it is, I managed to create my

725
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 3: own voice within that where it's like I don't have

726
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 3: to achieve all of those things. I do what I

727
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: want when I want to do it. And I pick

728
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 3: and choose what I want to do. But I also

729
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 3: think another challenging time has obviously been motherhood, because that's

730
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 3: a whole game. Like if Jeromas are running nose, everybody

731
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 3: would be looking at you. If he does this, everybody

732
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 3: be judging you. Ah ah. So that because the comments

733
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: come in thick and fast, I've had I find myself

734
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 3: drawing back to that childhood where I had to be

735
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 3: like self talk and be like no, exactly fine, it's

736
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: fine and it now what's now changed with motherhood is

737
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 3: I've had to not be vocal about it. So then

738
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: when I was a child, I would just say in

739
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 3: my brain like my parents be crazy, like it's fine,

740
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 3: you know, but like I would never say that because

741
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 3: I got to get the shamou child. But like now

742
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: that I'm older, I can actually someone actually says something

743
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 3: about Jerome or about motherhood, or I can challenge it

744
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: and be like, no, but dude, I'm tired. Even if

745
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 3: it's my husband, even if it's you know, a fellow

746
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: co worker or whatever, I can actually challenge the notion

747
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 3: that I need to be perfect, you know. And I

748
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 3: think when people are confronted with it, like oh, like oh.

749
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: Then they also go self introspect. Oh why was I

750
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: expecting that?

751
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: Off?

752
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: It's right, like, yes, it's okay, let me just you know.

753
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 3: And sometimes I've actually say to people instead of telling

754
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: me what to do, I don't you do it has

755
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: bookers on his nose, there's tissue there. Why don't you

756
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,479
Speaker 3: wipe his nose? Why why are you telling me coming?

757
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 3: Because I'm to tell me and you just don't do

758
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 3: it yourself. So I think it's like I've had to,

759
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: like I have the muscle, yes, and now I've had

760
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 3: to like vocally vocalize it, use it in a different

761
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 3: way to use it. Yeah.

762
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But you've always been good and something that

763
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: I've admired about you, You know, you have a very

764
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: strong sense of self and ability to say I don't

765
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: care what you're going to say. Do you understand like

766
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: you've you've always had a very good sense of self

767
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: since we were young, which is very admirable, and I

768
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: really like that about you. It challenges me as well.

769
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: For me, the answer to the question is, I'm one

770
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: hundred percent of perfectionist, and I would like to say

771
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm a recovering perfectionist. Still, have you know sometimes my

772
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: name is Rumby, and I still have like like you know,

773
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: you said the moments where.

774
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 3: The short incident.

775
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think for me in a way where

776
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: you were like, oh, my parents tripping, I internalized it

777
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: so much so that my parents need not say anything anymore.

778
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: It was already within myself like.

779
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 3: Let's go there was I.

780
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: I'm the one who, you know, I would have homework.

781
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: I'd be the one who's doning homework before they even

782
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: say anything. They may say to my siblings, they have

783
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: you have you done your homework? Or go to your homework?

784
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: I was there already. They would go to bed sometimes.

785
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: I remember I was in primary school. They would go

786
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: to bed sometimes and I was there working on my project,

787
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: making sure it's like perfect whatever. They're like, okay's doing

788
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: good night, Like see like I was. I was that,

789
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: And I think it had a lot to do with

790
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: upbringing for sure. I think it's also inherited in a

791
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: way because I've seen it in in my mom in

792
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: some ways, and you know, and yeah, yeah, I'm definitely

793
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: a recovering perfectionist. Do you think heavy on the recovering?

794
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: Hey, we pray on the records. How do you think

795
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 3: you've sought help, though, just how does one seek help

796
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 3: when they're perfectionist?

797
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: Therapy mm hmmm, and something that's really my sisters She'll

798
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: say something to me over and over like oh, it's fine,

799
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: it's not an issue, and you still are like, no,

800
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: you just say that because you love me. So when

801
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: you hear it, sometimes from your loved ones like Amanda

802
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: or whatever, we've spoken about body image, which has always

803
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 1: been a big thing for me, and they're like, oh,

804
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: you're fine, or my husband is like, girl, I love

805
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: you as you are. Whatever. It's sometimes when you hear

806
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: an expert outsider who you feel has no insight into

807
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: who you are tell you those things, then it like

808
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: triggers this thing like oh oh so when it was

809
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: these people were saying these things, they must be right.

810
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: So I do recommend therapy is very helpful. It's very

811
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: uncomfortable because when all you know is to be perfect,

812
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: it's hard to let go and it's it's a it's

813
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: a muscle that I'm still learning to practice. I think

814
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: it's also helped being away from home. I think it's

815
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: also helped the partner that I have, who is able

816
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: and willing to share the load. For example, he knows

817
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 1: I'm not a morning person. I used to beat myself

818
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: up for not being a five am riser, you know,

819
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 1: up and you know, breakfast is real bad. And I

820
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: used to beat myself up about it. And he really

821
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: was just like, it's fine. So in the morning, he'd

822
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: get up earlier, give me my time to get ready,

823
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: and he'd make he makes breakfast like that's the that's

824
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: the thing. And learning that that's okay. But the zim

825
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: Go in me was like, your man's be waking up

826
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: before you to make breakfast.

827
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 3: Oh hell no.

828
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: But I've had to accept that that's who I am.

829
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: And it's only honestly this year that i've really kind

830
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: of to some degree except moved into that recovery.

831
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think also the people around you, Like I

832
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 3: feel like we talked a lot about like you just said,

833
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 3: you know, you obviously had like friends and family who

834
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 3: always say these things to you. Then therapy just firmed it. Yes, yeah,

835
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 3: but I think some people have the opposite right where

836
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 3: they have the family and the friends, but they're the

837
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: one you exactly. I love you, but you're now holding

838
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 3: me to this highest theme. And people also, you have

839
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 3: to always realize there's a lot of self interest in perfectionism,

840
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 3: so people will be like, no, do it for me,

841
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: because you always do it right. So it's also like okay, no, no, no,

842
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 3: I need to have boundaries, like I'm not doing that

843
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 3: nor more. The episode on Boundaries is exactly So I

844
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 3: think it's like it's very crucial to surround yourself with

845
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,399
Speaker 3: the right people. And I will credit Australia for that

846
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 3: for me personally, because a lot of Australians have the

847
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 3: saying when, well, she'll be all right, which means she'll

848
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 3: be okay, like.

849
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: Fine, child, it's not the end of the world.

850
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 3: It's probably not gonna beat but will it be done? Yes,

851
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 3: it will be done. So Amanda to Friday, Amanda, when

852
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 3: you're tired from work and it's KFC that night, KFC,

853
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 3: you didn't you you are? So I think it's like

854
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 3: I've had to have adopted that aussy culture where she'll

855
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: be all right, like we'll be fine, like today, I'm

856
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 3: not gonna be guns blazing about everything. It's yes, and

857
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: Zim has I've had to leave Zim to achieve that,

858
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: which is really sad because whenever I go back to Zim,

859
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 3: I always say, oh, I have to my zim cap on,

860
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: and I think my zim cap is perfectionism. I'm not

861
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 3: gonna wake up after Tom or myself. I'm gonna have

862
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 3: to be wringing up before them to speak. First, people

863
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 3: do the dishes, then, do you know I'm gonna have to.

864
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 3: This is the way the world, especially patriarchal worlds, work.

865
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 3: So I think it helps knowing your people, knowing what

866
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 3: speaks to your soul. Where do you feel at peace?

867
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 3: You know, because in perfectionism you're not at peace. You're

868
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 3: just at all going going, You're in a hamster wheel.

869
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: It's all. So when you find yourself not in that

870
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 3: hamster wheel, not thinking, I think, take a second to

871
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 3: look around who's around you, Which energies are you absorbing

872
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 3: and pushing up against, because you probably find that those

873
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 3: are the same people you need to have around you

874
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 3: when you are thinking, am I going need to do this?

875
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 3: And you do that?

876
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah?

877
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so crucial. It's so so crucial.

878
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: That's actually I was gonna ask you a question about

879
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: advice for perfectionism, and I think that's such great advice.

880
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: And I surround yourself, who do you surround yourself with

881
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: and around which what's your environment like if you can

882
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: shift that and change that. And also, I would say

883
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: Amanda mentioned in the Allyship episode, you should know you

884
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,959
Speaker 1: only have like five fucs to give. So in life

885
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: it's like, why is this so important to you? And

886
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: why do I need to care? Just ask yourself that.

887
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: And for me it's even in when I panic about something,

888
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: asking but why is it? And you'll find a lot

889
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: of the times we don't ask ourselves like why do

890
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 1: I feel this need? And then it makes you pause,

891
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: take a step back, and you have to be willing

892
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: to be honest with yourself. Hence the dark side of

893
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 1: you that perfectionism doesn't really like. Typically it allows you

894
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: to sit in that a little and you're going to

895
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: have to be here's the thing. It's going to be

896
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable because with perfectionism we want the the comfort

897
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: of like not dealing or not. It's gonna be ugly,

898
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: there may be some tears, it's gonna be you feel

899
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: a bit out of whack and out of who you know,

900
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: what you're used to. Let's just ask yourself, why is

901
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: it so important that the potato salad be perfect? What

902
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 1: is this saying about guys. And I've used potato salad.

903
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: It's a very almost like trivial issue.

904
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 3: But yeah, but it's but it shows how bad it

905
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 3: can be trivial stuff. Yeah, it goes deep because if

906
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: you're doing that potato salad for putter salad, what are

907
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 3: you doing for the other things that are actually important?

908
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: Exactly?

909
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know we're probably having sleepless nights sleeping because exactly, Amanda,

910
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 3: you drag.

911
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: Me, drag me?

912
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: I don't know, No, I'm not dragging you at all.

913
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 3: You know the love I have for you. It's just

914
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 3: I think we all suffer from it. We all do

915
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 3: it like it's just I think zimbabwe and women more so.

916
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: And I think this is a love letter to our

917
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 3: Zimbabwean women out there. Our whole season has been, our

918
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 3: Barby era has been because it's really like, why are

919
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: we the way we are? You know?

920
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: Because then that's why patriarchy feeds itself and attaches itself

921
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: like a leech, because we already add the perfectionism.

922
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 3: Right, so the man, the man now coming and say

923
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:24,479
Speaker 3: do everything it discoes perfectly because of like, yeah, lament

924
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 3: to do everything. I'm a strong black woman I can

925
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 3: do it everything, you know, so it's like no, actually,

926
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 3: and stay away from social media if you have problems

927
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: with perfectionism, because also you need to realize that that's

928
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 3: a highlight reel. They don't. They've got lots of things

929
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: they're not showing you. A lot of couples you follow

930
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 3: on social media, you find out they broke up. There

931
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 3: was I mean, here now we're going through our Will

932
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 3: and Jada and his confessions period where everything meanwhile w

933
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 3: and we're growing up. Will and Jada were the poster

934
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 3: for you know, black power in Hollywood, So it's like,

935
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 3: how do you you separate yourself from that? You need

936
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 3: to realize what's real, what's fake, see through it. And

937
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 3: I have to give kudos to some certain degree to

938
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 3: gen Z because they also teachings that MI learning to

939
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 3: far far, too too far, you know, so like show

940
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 3: the real real and like I feel, that's why even

941
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 3: TikTok probably is possibly gone. I mean, apart from the

942
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 3: timing with the pandemic, it's also because it stripped us back.

943
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 3: You know a lot of if you look at all

944
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 3: the people we follow on TikTok as opposed to their Instagram,

945
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 3: that's the perfect There's that whole line about Instagram versus

946
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 3: reality expectations. This is reality because it's like on TikTok,

947
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 3: they'll be there with their bonnet on telling you the

948
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 3: realist and then you get to know their personality, their

949
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: their flaws, so to. But on Instace it will be

950
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 3: the proper shot pick, you know, the everything glam glam.

951
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 3: So I think you just need to be very conscious

952
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 3: of your mind and protect your soul and what you

953
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 3: feed your mind or what you feed your soul.

954
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Another tip I would have about perfectionists for

955
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: perfectionists is looking in the mirror and when I did

956
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: this and I still struggle with it to some degree,

957
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: and saying what you like about yourself and just leaving

958
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: it at that and leaving like if it's an imagery thing,

959
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: if it's about how you look, just saying like, I

960
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: love you to yourself, you may feel quite great for

961
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: a little bit these are It may seem who ha,

962
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: but honestly, it's just what you feed yourself. Or putting

963
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: sticky notes up around like that just encourage you words

964
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: of encouragement, or taking time to meditate if meditation is

965
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: your thing. Journaling has been is my thing, that's that's

966
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: my life saving thing where you put it out you know,

967
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: and honestly just know it's okay to be weak or

968
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 1: to not about it today and to ask for all

969
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 1: ask for help, you know, yeah, like are you And

970
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: I think and this is not this is not turning

971
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 1: me into a therapy position when it's not meant to.

972
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 3: Think of my therapies so much. But I think, like,

973
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 3: also another thing that I'm like, like for our listeners

974
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 3: to know is that it's okay to not to do

975
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 3: the bare minimum sometimes, like it's fine to just be

976
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 3: like brah, it will have to do and actually sit

977
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 3: with that feeling and be happy with that feeling. Yeah,

978
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 3: And of course if you're achieving, everything is great. But

979
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 3: on that day when you don't, that's also great. Like

980
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 3: it's fine. Like and I think we've been brought up

981
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 3: to think the opposite, to be disappointed, to look at

982
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 3: the joneses to do this and that. But really, at

983
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 3: the end of the day, most people don't even notice

984
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 3: all these things. We're just like, oh, because I think

985
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 3: anyone who's to meet any of us, we think, oh,

986
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 3: these girls are confident, have a podcast, they have these

987
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 3: days and not see all the things underneath it, or yeah,

988
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 3: to realize like yeah, we questioned ourselves in this podcast,

989
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 3: or like are we doing the right thing? Are we

990
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: holding the mark? Are we doing this? Are we doing that?

991
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 3: Is our qualitifying? Is our audio? Like all these things.

992
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 3: Then at the end of the day, it's like, but

993
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 3: we have to just keep going, we have to keep moving,

994
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 3: and we improve and perfect so to speak, in time

995
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 3: and with time.

996
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: And you know, speaking of this season, it's almost been

997
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: like really telling of my life. I think at the

998
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: beginning of the season, I talked about how I was

999
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: evolving as a person, and it's quite interesting, you know,

1000
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: when sharing that my answer is for for posting on

1001
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: social media, I was like, my only word is evolving

1002
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: And for me, I was like, no, I need to

1003
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: have you know. And it was hard and it's been

1004
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: a journey a man and knows it's been a journey

1005
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: for me. You know. I left my job, I took

1006
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: time out, which again for perfection, it's like me very hard,

1007
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: very isolating and being okay with just being And it

1008
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: took me actually months to actually just be okay with

1009
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: being and letting go of that. And I share all

1010
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: this to say that it's it's a journey. It's very difficult,

1011
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 1: it's very confronting. But I think you also realize you

1012
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:35,959
Speaker 1: cannot live life chasing perfection at your own expense, which

1013
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: I think I have been prone to doing. Sorry, And

1014
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think this episode is just an episode

1015
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: of encouragement for people who like me, like us, have

1016
00:56:53,600 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: struggled with perfectionism, that there's other ways to and to

1017
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: live truly and honestly in your truth as you are,

1018
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: come as you are. You know, even biblically we're told

1019
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: come as you are if you're religious in that way.

1020
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: But we struggle, and we absorb so much of what

1021
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: society has to offer to tell us at our expense.

1022
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know if this has been useful

1023
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: for anyone, this.

1024
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 3: Has been therapeutic for you, yeah, you know. So yeah,

1025
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 3: And we hold space for anyone who feels like it's

1026
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 3: become too much. I mean, one of the things with

1027
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 3: perfectionism is that, you know, comparison is a thief of joy,

1028
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 3: and when you can keep comparing yourself, you're never going

1029
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 3: to be the best in all aspects at all times,

1030
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 3: you know. And also no need to procrastinate because you

1031
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 3: want to make everything perfect. Yes, you know, like go

1032
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 3: for your dreams, go for your goals, whether they're perfect

1033
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 3: or not. You will figure it out on the way. Roomby,

1034
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 3: and I always laugh and say, even with this podcast,

1035
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 3: just delete it doesn't work out, you know, Like that's

1036
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 3: how you have to approach your life, that you have

1037
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 3: to give it a girl. You have to give it

1038
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 3: a shot. So Rumby, I'm so proud of you. We

1039
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 3: have no idea how like you're so inspiring because you

1040
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 3: always always look out for yourself and I love that,

1041
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 3: and not in a like egotistical way, but in a

1042
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 3: what can I be doing better? How can I live

1043
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 3: my life better? And a lot of people don't even

1044
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 3: question themselves. They just go mundane expecting you know, Sam

1045
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 3: is going to change, something's going to change. But you

1046
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 3: actually seek that change, You seek that evolving, and I

1047
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,479
Speaker 3: think you're only going to be the better for it.

1048
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, And I'm thankful for you for

1049
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: giving me the room, the space, and the encouragement even

1050
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: on days when I couldn't just chill and you're just like,

1051
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: just chill, that's fine, you'll be fine, it's okay. Switch off.

1052
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: And my sister too, I definitely have to shout her

1053
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: out and my husband like again, can you unity is

1054
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: so so so important when you definitely is trying to

1055
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: heal from perfectionism. So thank you so much for listening

1056
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: the season. But before we go.

1057
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 3: Before I let you go, there you go with me?

1058
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: What do we gotta do? Amanda let them go?

1059
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 3: Speaking about community, we've obviously launched our website, We've obviously

1060
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 3: come a long way from season one now season five,

1061
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 3: and to close off our season, instead of doing our

1062
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 3: regular ZIM shout outs, yes, we're going to shout out

1063
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 3: our it's layered dolvers. So those people who've just been

1064
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 3: showing us love since they don't been encouraging us, especially

1065
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 3: through the socials. I know a lot of people like

1066
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 3: to look and not let themselves be known, but we

1067
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 3: love for you to let us you know, know you around,

1068
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 3: know you're listening, know what you're getting from it, what

1069
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 3: you're gleaning from our episode, because it keeps us going.

1070
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 3: As you can see, this is a vulnerable safe space

1071
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 3: and we all need to uplift each other to keep going.

1072
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 3: So this is just a shout out to our Islea

1073
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 3: Dovas we know there's plenty of you, y'all, but we

1074
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: had to really make this an exclusive club because we can't.

1075
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 3: We can't, but we can have the whole episode listening. Everybody. Yes,

1076
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 3: if you want to shout out, please reach out to us,

1077
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 3: give us some comments, show us some love on the socials,

1078
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 3: send us a review in mind, send us a review,

1079
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 3: subscribe rate like all those comments, all those things that

1080
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 3: the people these days say. But yeah, shout out to Couzy,

1081
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 3: Tino Derby, Drew Picks, Myself, Sonya did, Larissa, Pumi and

1082
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 3: of course Mama Doo Mama Doobs.

1083
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: The only on baby boomer who probably into our podcast.

1084
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: She loves and for sure, thank you to some of

1085
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: our dolvers and supporters on the social media. On x

1086
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: we have Chiezza Gonbetza who's always showing us love at

1087
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: the Manyati Melody Chinguaru Tomelo Chi Gnat from the Girls

1088
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: in Skies podcasts, as well as on Instagram at just

1089
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: some more. These are Delvers supporters who're constantly showing us love, content,

1090
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: constantly engaging with us, constantly hollering at us. Of course,

1091
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: there are many others, but we just wanted to say

1092
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: thank you and please, as a matter said, if you

1093
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: want to, if you want to shout out, call her back,

1094
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: send us a review comment, and don't forget to subscribe

1095
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: not only to the podcast, but on our website because

1096
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: then you'll be getting the latest details, first look at

1097
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: blog posts, all those fun things. So please go to

1098
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: our website it's laid podcast dot com and show us

1099
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 1: love there. Amanda, what a season.

1100
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 3: What a season. Please know, even though we're going on

1101
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 3: a hiatus because we need to rest, child, we'll come back.

1102
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 3: Keep your eyes peeled for something extra special. Okay, dot dot.

1103
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: Dot, Amanda Element, I don't know what I know. Dank you,

1104
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: I don't know why, love you so much for me.

1105
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 3: Loved this season, loved all our guests. Special shout out

1106
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,919
Speaker 3: to our guests for this season. Absolutely, that would be

1107
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 3: surrou that would be Wordsy, that would be the NYE

1108
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 3: and obviously your bonus who Willsie in the mid Thanks

1109
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 3: so much for your love for coming on our Bobby

1110
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: Era season and we'll keep up and I on all

1111
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,479
Speaker 3: the projects you're up to as well.

1112
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you so much. Take care of yourself, take

1113
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: care of each other, take care bye everyone.

1114
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 3: Bye.

1115
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 2: They will tear you ak like a pepper too. Oh

1116
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 2: no no, no, yeah yeah yeah yeah