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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now well, as we prepare for Father's Day this Sunday,

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be able to talk with some

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Speaker 2: pretty high profile and really interesting dads about what it

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Speaker 2: is to be a dad, what's meaningful for them as

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Speaker 2: a dad, and what dadhood has done to their lives.

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Speaker 2: Today A conversation with somebody that I've been able to

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Speaker 2: share the television screen with dozens, if not maybe one

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Speaker 2: hundred times or something over the last few years. David Campbell,

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Speaker 2: one of Australia's most popular entertainers, multi platinum selling recording artist,

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Speaker 2: the host of Today Extra. What I didn't know until

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Speaker 2: I sort of got to know David a little bit

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Speaker 2: more is not only can he sing, but he's done

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Speaker 2: some pretty amazing musical theater. He's been involved with the

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Speaker 2: Sydney Theater Company, he worked at the Sydney Opera House,

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Speaker 2: been in a major revival of Lem Miz and has

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Speaker 2: even worked doing I think it was David, forgive me

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Speaker 2: if I get this wrong, doing cabaret in New York?

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I did Cabaret in New York after lam As, I'll

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Speaker 1: fig mate, So I'm just giving my son his treat.

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Speaker 3: I'll go there, you go, I did.

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Speaker 1: I did lame Aserra and then I went to New

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Speaker 1: York and did cabaret, and that's where I sort of

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Speaker 1: really those two things sort of started to get me

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Speaker 1: known in the industry, both here and in America.

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Speaker 2: So for people who are not quite as cultured, what

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Speaker 2: is cabaret.

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Speaker 1: Cabaret is a really it's basically just an old school

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Speaker 1: art form. People would know it better as unplugged. If

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Speaker 1: in a modern parlance, it's I see it more as

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Speaker 1: that too. Is whenever an artist strips down to basic

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Speaker 1: essential storytelling with either a guitar or a piano, it's

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Speaker 1: really intimate. Usually it's smaller rooms, and it's really something

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Speaker 1: that came out of the German and French scene in

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Speaker 1: the thirties and forties, the Weimar time. It could be

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Speaker 1: anything from burlesque to Tony Bennett to even Jimmy Barnes,

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Speaker 1: you know, with an acoustic guitar, so it can take

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Speaker 1: many art forms. In America, it was traditionally done with

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Speaker 1: the American popular sombok sols for the twenties thirties and

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Speaker 1: fourties and fifties, Gershwin, Coldporter, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And people love you like you've got rave reviews in

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Speaker 2: New York City. I mean, if you can make it there,

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Speaker 2: you can make it anywhere. That's what they say, so

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Speaker 2: they tell me, and I.

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Speaker 1: Think that there is a matter of truth to that,

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Speaker 1: and I think that what I've learned in retrospect looking

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Speaker 1: back on that time, is that if you can weather

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Speaker 1: the storm's there, it teaches you how to weather.

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Speaker 3: The rest of the industry.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually dubious about whether making it there, make it

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Speaker 1: anywhere is actually still fact in New York anymore. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's quite the center of the universe. It

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Speaker 1: pertains to be in the industry. But definitely something like

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Speaker 1: that is really a trial by fire about how to

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Speaker 1: survive the industry and how to find yourself.

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Speaker 2: So, David, you said, there's a lot of storms that

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Speaker 2: you've got to survive to make it in the music

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Speaker 2: beiers and in the show show business arena. There's also

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of storms in family life. And that's

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Speaker 2: what we're going to talk about with you today in

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Speaker 2: this conversation as we lean into father's stay just before

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Speaker 2: we go there though, and I hit you with my

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Speaker 2: lightning round and all the questions that I want to

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Speaker 2: know about you. Being a dad of three kids, you've

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Speaker 2: recently written a children's book, My Tooth is Loth, Well

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Speaker 2: with a lift, my tooth is louth. I'm guessing based

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Speaker 2: on I mean, I've read the book and it's it's

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Speaker 2: really fun. I'm guessing that you've got some kids that

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Speaker 2: went through some tooth trauma.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we did.

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Speaker 3: We had to do a lot of tooth trauma.

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Speaker 1: And what I loved about that title in retrospect now

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Speaker 1: that I've made it is that I've made amazing people

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Speaker 1: like you and you know, Patricia Carvella say my.

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Speaker 3: Tooth is looth.

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Speaker 1: That's been a real joint. That's been a little token

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Speaker 1: for me. Post release of the book, we started with

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Speaker 1: Stupid Carrots, which is about kids not eating the dinner

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Speaker 1: that they're given, and then went to Bedtimes Boring was

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Speaker 1: about my twins as twin bunnies. Bedtime is Boring was

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Speaker 1: about my son not wanting to go to bed on time,

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Speaker 1: and My Tooth is Loose was about.

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Speaker 3: Both twin bunnies. So it's a trilogy.

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Speaker 1: Now kids have different reactions to growing, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I think that you have to be open to all

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Speaker 1: of them. And when you have twins, you see both sides.

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Speaker 1: And this is exactly how both kids reacted to it.

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Speaker 1: Billy was very nervous. He didn't want loose his teeth.

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Speaker 1: He'd already lost a tooth pulled out by a dentist

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Speaker 1: because of an incident in a monkey bars, so he

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Speaker 1: had already had a lost tooth and was quite paranoid

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Speaker 1: about it. Whereas Betty was like, are we going to

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Speaker 1: get money for this? Because I will rip every tooth

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Speaker 1: out of my head today. So it's that sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, yin and yang of my twins, which I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of kids go through those things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was laughing as I was reading it,

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Speaker 2: because having had six children myself, I'm thinking I've been

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Speaker 2: through this. I've got the child who is literally so

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Speaker 2: money obsessed at such a young age, like, just give

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Speaker 2: me the string, just give me the door handle. I'm

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Speaker 2: ready for this. Just let's get rid of that tooth.

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Speaker 2: And the other ones who literally won't go to sleep

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Speaker 2: in case it falls out in their sleep and they

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Speaker 2: swallow it and they're terrified of the blood and all

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing. My tooth is luth one of

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Speaker 2: three children's books written by David Campbell. David, are you

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Speaker 2: ready for a lightning round about be being.

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Speaker 3: A dad more than anything in the world?

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Speaker 2: All right, that is quite ready, That is quite ready.

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Speaker 2: Tell us how many kids you have and how old

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Speaker 2: they are?

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Speaker 3: I have three kids. They are twelve and twins are seven.

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Speaker 1: And a half.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe he's twelve.

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Speaker 3: He would have been what eighteen months two years when

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Speaker 3: I first met you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah, that's staggering to me. Do you have

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Speaker 2: a favorite child?

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: I used to think that was the thing. My wife

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Speaker 1: and I were both I was kind of brought up

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Speaker 1: as an only child until I met my brothers and

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Speaker 1: sisters on my dad's side, and my wife is an

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Speaker 1: only child, and we always thought that maybe it was

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Speaker 1: a thing.

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Speaker 3: And then you realize love just multiplies.

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Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Who do you love the most then, your

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Speaker 2: wife or your kids?

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Speaker 3: I love my wife the most because she provided the

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Speaker 3: kids for me and keeps them.

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Speaker 2: Safe, very nicely done. Here's a tricky one for you.

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Speaker 2: What's the ideal number of kids for you?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 1: This is it. This is the ideal number. We were

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Speaker 1: aiming for two. It was only because there are twins

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Speaker 1: on my wife's side that we got three. But I

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Speaker 1: think three is great.

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Speaker 2: So you're saying that the ideal number was too but

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Speaker 2: then you had three, so that the ideal number is

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Speaker 2: Is that what I'm hearing?

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, it's the Dan Savage round. Anything up to

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Speaker 1: the perfect ten score. So the perfect was two, and

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Speaker 1: of course I had three, So it's the perfect is three?

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Speaker 2: Got it? For interest's sake. I'm the eldest of six myself.

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Speaker 2: My mum had me, followed by twin girls, followed by

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Speaker 2: my brother, followed by twin girls.

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Speaker 3: Wow. See, you're the reason why I got a prosectomy.

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Speaker 3: That story just there, justin is the reason.

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Speaker 1: When my wife was being rolled into the hospital with

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Speaker 1: our twins, she looked me and said, you're on this

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Speaker 1: bed next, buddy.

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Speaker 3: And she was right.

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Speaker 2: How do you rate yourself as a parent, David?

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Speaker 1: I give myself a strong seven point three. I try

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Speaker 1: really hard. I make a lot of mistakes, and I

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Speaker 1: try to own those mistakes with my kids so that

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Speaker 1: they'll be better parents sometime in the future.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like a strong seven point three. Based

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Speaker 2: on some of the other answers we've had in Lightning rounds,

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Speaker 2: that sounds pretty solid. Recently, I finished reading two of

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Speaker 2: your dad's books, Working Class Boy and Working Class Man.

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Speaker 3: Your Dad, I'm sorry for the trauma that that brought up.

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Speaker 2: It was pretty flow on your dad. For those who

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Speaker 2: were not familiar, is the one and only Jimmy Barnes,

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Speaker 2: former lead singer of Cold Chisel, and he had a

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Speaker 2: breathtakingly traumatic childhood. Staggering to read what he went through

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Speaker 2: as he grew up in the northern suburbs of Adelaide

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Speaker 2: and Elizabeth, and then you were conceived. He didn't even

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Speaker 2: know about you, and you were raised by your mum's

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Speaker 2: parents and they taught you essentially that they were your parents. Correct.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really only my grandmother, my grand her

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Speaker 1: and my grandfather had split at that time. Huh.

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Speaker 3: And my dad kind of he didn't know about me.

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Speaker 3: He acknowledged that I existed, but he just wasn't a

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Speaker 3: part of my life.

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Speaker 1: He was off being in a band and that was

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Speaker 1: that lifestyle, and it was very much you know, we're

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Speaker 1: talking the early seventies, so it's not we can't look

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Speaker 1: at it with twenty twenty two glasses, So he did

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Speaker 1: what he did. But yeah, I was raised by my

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Speaker 1: grandmother to think that she was my mother and that

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Speaker 1: my mother was my sister, and I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: Who my father was.

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Speaker 2: So the lightning round question associated with that history, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of important. So the question can be answered well,

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Speaker 2: and it's a bit of a tricky one.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 2: But what's something great that your dad did that you've

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Speaker 2: tried to continue in your parenting.

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Speaker 1: Keep his children close, Keep the children that he had

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Speaker 1: with Jane as close as he can. And he took

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Speaker 1: them on the road or he you know, he moved around,

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Speaker 1: but they were always with him. And even though that

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Speaker 1: might have messed me up when I was a teenager

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Speaker 1: because I also wanted to be in that family, I

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Speaker 1: actually had the value of that now that I have

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Speaker 1: my own kids. So yeah, keeping your kids close to

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Speaker 1: you is something that he is very much a part of.

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Speaker 1: And Jane is too, you know, she comes from a

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Speaker 1: Thai family who are extremely close.

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Speaker 2: I love that answer for its generosity. Thank you for that, David.

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Speaker 2: Who's the better parent you or Lisa?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: I definitely think Lisa is the better parent.

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Speaker 1: She's calmer, she's probably more emotionally intelligent than I am,

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Speaker 1: and you know, but we both learn lessons from each other,

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Speaker 1: and we both are open to each other's parenting style

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Speaker 1: and try to support each other as much as we can.

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Speaker 1: We do believe in co parenting, and we do believe

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Speaker 1: that that is a very important role. So but she

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Speaker 1: is definitely She's definitely an eight point nine.

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Speaker 3: If I'm mist every point three very good.

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Speaker 2: What's the hardest thing. What's the hardest thing about being

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Speaker 2: a dad?

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Speaker 1: The hardest thing about being a dad, I think is patience.

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Speaker 1: The hardest thing I think about being a dad is vulnerability.

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Speaker 4: The hardest thing about being a dad is allowing yourself

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Speaker 4: to not repeat the bad stuff that your parents taught you,

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Speaker 4: and to understand that when it seeps through, you have

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Speaker 4: to forgive it.

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Speaker 2: If you can spend an hour with your kids, David,

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Speaker 2: at any age, which age would you choose and why?

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Speaker 3: Any age? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Would you have them as babies again? Would you have

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Speaker 2: them as like forty year olds? What age would you pick?

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Speaker 2: And why?

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't go back to babies again? I think once

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Speaker 3: you've had twin babies, no, the.

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Speaker 1: Twin experience of having babies was really hard on my

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Speaker 1: older child. I think we lost a bit of you know,

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Speaker 1: you're just so in the trenches with twin babies, and

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Speaker 1: we didn't have the support that a lot of other

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Speaker 1: families had, so we did it quite a lot on

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Speaker 1: our own.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't go back to that again. I like

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Speaker 3: the ages that they're getting to now. I like molding

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Speaker 3: humans for the better.

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Speaker 1: I like the idea of putting better people in the world,

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Speaker 1: more empathetic people in the world.

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Speaker 3: I like the fact that we're going to leave the

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Speaker 3: planet behind better than we found it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you're going with kids about the age that

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Speaker 2: they are now twelve and seven, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I like it.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I've missed any experiences with my kids.

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Speaker 1: I like each experience as it goes along, and I

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Speaker 1: like what I learned from it and what I can

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Speaker 1: get from it.

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Speaker 2: What's the ultimate joy for you as a parent sitting.

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Speaker 3: Back and watching them do something independently.

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Speaker 1: I've always loved it watching whether that's team sports, or

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Speaker 1: my kids do dance, or my son plays piano, or

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Speaker 1: you know, when they pick up things, or if they're

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Speaker 1: playing with friends by themselves. Even when there are babies

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Speaker 1: I love sitting in the park and watching them play

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Speaker 1: with other kids. I love watching the things you've created

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Speaker 1: actually not need you and to be completely independent. I

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Speaker 1: think that's that's wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, David, Normally you're asking me the questions and I'm answering.

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Speaker 2: I'm really enjoying having you in the hot seat here.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you a question that you have

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Speaker 2: actually asked me on today.

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Speaker 3: Extra Oh boy, okay, it's fair paper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a parenting expert question. It's one that

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Speaker 2: I get all the time. What's the right age for

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Speaker 2: kids to have a mobile phone? David?

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Speaker 1: Not until they're at least thirteen to fifteen, depending on

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Speaker 1: the child and depending on their circumstances. If they are

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Speaker 1: going on a school bus, or they're traveling on public transport,

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Speaker 1: or they need to walk a long distance to school.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the fair time to have it. Anything else,

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Speaker 3: their brains are not yet ready to go. My kids

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Speaker 3: have iPads for school, and even.

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Speaker 1: Then, I don't love it that my son is spread

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Speaker 1: for a phone because all of it his friends have

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Speaker 1: science and we're just go, no, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: have one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going through the same thing without twelve year old,

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Speaker 2: right now, what's that thing that maybe it was your

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Speaker 2: your grandma who you thought was your mom, Maybe it

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Speaker 2: was actually your mom or your dad. What's that thing

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Speaker 2: that your parents always said that you swore you would

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Speaker 2: never say, but you keep on saying it. Anyway.

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Speaker 3: It's actually not what they said.

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Speaker 2: That's what they did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my grandmother was when you didn't do what she

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Speaker 1: asked you to do. She was very loving and very strong.

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Speaker 1: She was a war baby from London. She went through

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Speaker 1: a lot. She went she lived through a lot of

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Speaker 1: trauma in her life. She was raised through trauma, she

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Speaker 1: was adopted. You know, she had a lot of intergenerational

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Speaker 1: trauma that she was handing down. And I, you know,

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Speaker 1: she's still alive, and I want to be respectful and

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Speaker 1: careful of that.

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Speaker 3: But she would be withholding of affections if you were

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Speaker 3: in trouble.

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Speaker 1: You know, I often felt, and I'm a needy child anyway,

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Speaker 1: but I often felt if I did something wrong that

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Speaker 1: the tap of love would be turned off.

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Speaker 3: And so when I parent now.

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Speaker 1: I can feel the tap turning and so I have

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Speaker 1: to struggle with that, or I have to sit down

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Speaker 1: with them and explain, Hey, what I meant by this

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Speaker 1: is this, or how I feel about what your behavior

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Speaker 1: is is this? And so I have to push through

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Speaker 1: my own pasted on trauma and you know, to go

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Speaker 1: and residual trauma, to go through that and say to them,

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Speaker 1: I'm acting this way not because I'm disappointed in you

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Speaker 1: or not because I don't love you, but I need

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Speaker 1: you to change your behavior because of this, because it's

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Speaker 1: dangerous or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Psychologists call that conditional parental regard, and it's harmful to kids.

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Speaker 2: I really really can can do damage as you can attest.

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Speaker 3: And I'm frightened over justin you know, it is there.

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Speaker 3: I can acknowledge it, and it frightens me.

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Speaker 2: What's your kid's favorite thing to do with you?

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Speaker 1: They like to make us laugh. So what I am though,

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Speaker 1: what I have been given is probably my time in

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Speaker 1: New York. A little bit for my grandmother is that

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Speaker 1: I am a really tough audience member. So when I

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Speaker 1: do crack up, that's They're like, that's gone. He's laughing

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Speaker 1: because Lisa's very gogarious and laughs at you know, she's

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Speaker 1: wonderful like that.

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Speaker 3: Whereas I'm like, that was funny, kid, good job. You

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Speaker 3: should call an agent you.

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Speaker 1: Know what I mean. Like, I'm like, so I'm always

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Speaker 1: pushing them to go, like, good joke, can you try

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Speaker 1: it better?

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Speaker 3: And so when they get me, they know they've got me.

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Speaker 5: And I will be like my daughter got me on

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Speaker 5: the weekend with something and I look away and I'm

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Speaker 5: like trying to like not look at her, but I

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Speaker 5: am crying and I can't talk.

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Speaker 3: And that's they love that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's great. What are you most looking forward

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Speaker 2: to as a parent.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to when they're all older and a

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Speaker 1: little bit more independent, but choose to come to us

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Speaker 1: and choose to either as a teenager to come to

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Speaker 1: us and talk to us, or choose to come and

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Speaker 1: share their lives with us. Like you know, we love

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Speaker 1: being on We were just on vacation with my sister

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Speaker 1: for her Affordian and we chose that.

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Speaker 3: I love that sort of idea that our own kids

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Speaker 3: will choose to be.

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Speaker 1: With us we get older, you know, because I get

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Speaker 1: the fact that you're going to miss them. I get

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Speaker 1: the fact that you know they have to go, they

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Speaker 1: have to have their experiences, but I hope they have

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Speaker 1: the desire to come back and share their experiences with us.

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Speaker 3: And tell us all about it.

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Speaker 2: Last two questions. If you could go back to you

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Speaker 2: as a young David Campbell, young parent having one of

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Speaker 2: those tough moments, being completely inexperienced, what advice would you

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Speaker 2: give yourself to go.

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Speaker 3: For a walk, walk it out, walk it out, breathe.

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Speaker 1: It's your own anxiety here, it's your own trauma coming through.

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Speaker 1: Just walk away, take a deep breath, come back, smile

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Speaker 1: and look at the moment that you're in because that

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Speaker 1: moment will not be there forever.

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Speaker 2: Last question, what's your biggest win as a dad?

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Speaker 1: That they're polite, good confident kids, but they look people

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Speaker 1: in the eyes, that they are engaged, that they are

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Speaker 1: curious about life, that they're artistically curious, and that they

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Speaker 1: want that they are just desperate to suck at the

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Speaker 1: marrow of life.

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Speaker 3: That is the biggest win.

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Speaker 2: Lisa and I both that David Campbell, it sounds like

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Speaker 2: you're a fabulous dad with a beautiful family. Thanks so

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Speaker 2: much for joining me on the Happy Family podcast.

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Speaker 3: Justin this is very unusual. Next time I ask the questions,

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Speaker 3: I'll let.

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Speaker 2: You go and grab those kids from their Kumon Maths

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Speaker 2: tutoring session hashtag not sponsored and Happy Father's Day as well. David,

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Speaker 2: thanks for joining us on the pod. The Happy Family's

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Speaker 2: podcast is produced by Justin Rawan from Bridge Media. Craig

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Speaker 2: Bruce is our executive producer and if you'd like more

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Speaker 2: information about how to make your family happier, you can

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Speaker 2: visit happy families dot com dot au