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Speaker 1: If you want to know what's happening on the local

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Speaker 1: political landscape, Katie Wolf has it covered on three sixty.

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Speaker 2: Every one is listening Mixed one oh four point nine.

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Speaker 1: Now we know that that first flight from India arrived

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Speaker 1: in Darwin on the weekend, but almost half of the

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty people that were due to catch

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Speaker 1: the Quanta's repatriation flight out of India were not allowed

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Speaker 1: to board the flight to Darwin after forty eight tested

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Speaker 1: positive four coronavirus before boarding. Now, because many of those

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Speaker 1: have close contacts, it meant that seventy were no longer

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Speaker 1: able to fly.

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Speaker 2: We now know that a forty.

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Speaker 1: One year old male who arrived on that repat flight

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Speaker 1: from New Delhi has tested positive for COVID nineteen. He

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Speaker 1: is asymptomatic and under the care of the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Health Department at the Center for National Resilience. Now joining

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Speaker 1: me in the studio a little bit later and on

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Speaker 1: a different day to what we'd usually do, the Chief Minister,

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Speaker 1: Michael Gunner, Good morning.

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Speaker 3: Morning, Katy, and thank you for being very flexible.

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Speaker 2: That's ally sure, no worries.

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Speaker 1: Now, Chief well, is there any update firstly on those

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Speaker 1: numbers this morning, following on from the arrival of the

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Speaker 1: Repat flight from New Delhi and also that one from

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Speaker 1: London yesterday.

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Speaker 3: I understand it's still one positive case.

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Speaker 4: I can that will check that for you if you like,

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Speaker 4: but my last device was one.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now we all understand the situation in India is absolutely

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Speaker 1: terrible and OSSI's are desperate to come home the arrival

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Speaker 1: of those flights, so it does represent a real risk

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Speaker 1: I think for territories in some ways. Yesterday we had

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Speaker 1: a leading epidemiologist joined us on the show to raise

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Speaker 1: some of the concerns that she's got about the testing

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Speaker 1: changes for staff out at Howard Springs. Mary Louise mcclaus

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Speaker 1: is warning that a change in testing regimes for staff

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Speaker 1: at Howard Springs Quarantine Facility could leave the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: more vulnerable to community transmission of coronavirus.

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Speaker 2: Now it has indeed.

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Speaker 1: Been confirmed that we are moving to scrap that process

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Speaker 1: known as rapid antigen testing for the daily screening of

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Speaker 1: quarantine staff. Instead, it's going to rely on a type

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Speaker 1: of screening call the PCR testing, I guess to make

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Speaker 1: it easy for everybody, which the facility is Medical Director

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Speaker 1: Dies Stephens said, is the gold standard? Chief Minister, why

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Speaker 1: has this decision been made?

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Speaker 4: So we trying to work out what's the best thing

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Speaker 4: that we can do and we don't cut any corners

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Speaker 4: at the House Springs and the strained government thankfully is

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Speaker 4: putting in a lot of money here and no one,

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Speaker 4: no one.

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Speaker 3: Quibbles about the dollars.

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Speaker 4: So if it's always about what is the absolute best

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Speaker 4: approach that we can take, the clinical advice is that

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Speaker 4: PCR is the gold test. It's the most reliable accurate test.

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Speaker 4: We were doing a trial with the eenngine testing at

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Speaker 4: a point in time where the PCR test results we're

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Speaker 4: taking twenty four hours. That's now happening much quicker, so

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Speaker 4: same day results and it can be up to an

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Speaker 4: hour for a PCR test result to come back and

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Speaker 4: accuracy is really important. So the clinical advice and we've

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Speaker 4: got an expert panel that looks at this is not

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Speaker 4: just Die Stevens or dot the paint on their own

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Speaker 4: looking at this. We have an expert panel and that

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Speaker 4: expert panel consults of the National Expert Panel. So the

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Speaker 4: best clinical device that we've got is that this is

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Speaker 4: the best test that we can do, and so we

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Speaker 4: want to go the absolute best test.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain that trial to us? What was the trial?

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Speaker 4: So that trials when we were using the rapid eigen

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Speaker 4: testing at the same time as the PCR test, and

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Speaker 4: we're doing that because the PCR test result at that stage.

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Speaker 3: Just taking twenty four hours.

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Speaker 4: We've now increased the testing capacity and gaining the results

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Speaker 4: in much sooner on the PCR testing. And that rapid

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Speaker 4: engine testing has its place. We're using it for the

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Speaker 4: Indian flights for example, but it has accuracy erarors. So

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Speaker 4: to use Indian flights as an example, I think it

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Speaker 4: is eight of the tests that came back positive and

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Speaker 4: so therefore they couldn't return to Australia have actually been

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Speaker 4: found to be false positive. So there's actually an error

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Speaker 4: rate to the rapid engine testing. And so the preference

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Speaker 4: here is accuracy and speed, so it's a combination and

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Speaker 4: the PCR testing we gain both those things now, accuracy

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Speaker 4: and speed.

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Speaker 1: Are you concerned though that we could have stuff leaving

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Speaker 1: the facility before there is a.

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Speaker 4: Result, Well, that was a risk under the rapid engine

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Speaker 4: testing because of this inaccuracies.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we did actually speak obviously to Mary Louise mcclau's

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Speaker 1: on the show yesterday.

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Speaker 2: I we'll just play a little bit of what she

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Speaker 2: had to say. Take a listen.

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Speaker 1: I know some people listening this morning might be thinking

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Speaker 1: to themselves, well, you know, as so long as we're

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Speaker 1: testing the staff out there, and so long as we

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Speaker 1: are testing people when they arrive, it should be okay.

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Speaker 2: I mean, to anybody out.

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Speaker 1: There that is thinking that this is sort of fear mongering,

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Speaker 1: what would you say to them?

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Speaker 5: I say to them. The twenty fourth breach in a

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Speaker 5: hotel quarantine that occurred in South Australia occurred because the

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Speaker 5: PCR test couldn't pick up this mann's infection early. I

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Speaker 5: believe he was tested around day thirteen, he had a

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Speaker 5: negative test. He then left on day fourteen and went home.

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Speaker 5: He then got symptoms five days later and the PCI

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Speaker 5: didn't pick it up. If he had had a rapid

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Speaker 5: antigen test, it is more than likely that he would

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Speaker 5: have been picked up and there would have been no

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Speaker 5: anxiety and no threat of a three day knockdown.

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Speaker 1: Taking into account what you've just heard there, I mean,

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Speaker 1: is this the right move for us here in the territory.

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Speaker 3: It's based on the best clinical device.

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Speaker 4: So I think you could argue that Territorians Dot Payne,

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Speaker 4: Dr Heggy, Dr Steven's, number of others dot com to

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Speaker 4: taris now probably amongst the world's best experts when it

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Speaker 4: comes to coronavirus. We've done an extremely good job. But

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Speaker 4: we also consultously with Dr Paul Kelly and the others nationally.

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Speaker 4: Their clinical advice doesn't support what was what we just heard.

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Speaker 4: That's not their clinical device, and I'm taking the medical

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Speaker 4: device here from the absolute best people.

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Speaker 3: I think you could argue in this field.

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Speaker 1: So you stand by any change that's been made. It's

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Speaker 1: not a it's not a financial decision to make this change.

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Speaker 4: No, no, So this is purely based on the clinical

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Speaker 4: device and everything we're doing. There's anywhere to be honest,

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Speaker 4: So if you think about it, we've run quarantine facilities

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Speaker 4: now Alice Springs, Howard Springs, multiple hotels and different areas,

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Speaker 4: so we've run a lot of quarantine facilities, even though

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Speaker 4: House Springs gets all the intention. We've run the goal

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Speaker 4: center basically in all those locations, and the goal center

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Speaker 4: keeps improving, So you can't be static. We'll keep saying,

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Speaker 4: how can we get better and better. So the advice

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Speaker 4: I'm getting is now that we're in the speed of

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Speaker 4: PCR into a much quicker test, that this is the

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Speaker 4: best thing we can do.

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Speaker 3: And I'll take that advice.

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Speaker 1: One of our listeners has text through and said better

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Speaker 1: safe than sorry to have false positives rather than false negatives.

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Speaker 4: So inaccuracies can lead to significant drain on resources and

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Speaker 4: put people in the wrong areas. So it could be

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Speaker 4: also get false negative like you got to be extremely

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Speaker 4: careful about accuracy is really important. And so that's the

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Speaker 4: advice I'm getting clinically. And you can spend a lot

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Speaker 4: of wheels on a bad result which has unnecessary use

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Speaker 4: of resources too.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask you did just mention then doctor Hugh Hegy,

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Speaker 2: when is he back from Laife?

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Speaker 3: Well, that'd be very soon. That's gone through very quickly.

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Speaker 3: I think he's two weeks away.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now I do want to move along and talk

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Speaker 1: about bladon point now, the use of bladon point. It's

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Speaker 1: something that we've been speaking about for a long time,

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Speaker 1: but it was put back on the agenda yesterday when

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Speaker 1: the Prime Minister Scott Morrison spirit a proposal between the

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Speaker 1: federal and the Northern Territory governments in an effort to

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Speaker 1: sort of look at quarantining agricultural workers.

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Speaker 2: You said yesterday that this is unlikely.

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Speaker 4: Why I think is really important that you don't rule

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Speaker 4: things out. So not ruling out Blade and Village, but

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Speaker 4: if I could put some context maybe around around it

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Speaker 4: and the complexities. So the military are currently using it

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Speaker 4: and they're forecasting potential use of it for a number

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Speaker 4: of months ahead, so the availability of Bladen Village could

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Speaker 4: be in question two. But the military bring an architecture,

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Speaker 4: they bring their personnel, they bring serious money, they can

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Speaker 4: pay for everything. They also bring a very healthy population

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Speaker 4: that is highly disciplined, so there's no underlying medical conditions.

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Speaker 4: So the infectivity rate amongst militaries I think zero point

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Speaker 4: seven percent. International flights are two percent and Indian flights

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Speaker 4: were running at ten percent, so there's a very low

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Speaker 4: demand on our health system. But critically, also they don't

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Speaker 4: bring underlying medical conditions. If you look at the returning

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Speaker 4: Australians that were bringing you in, or potentially seasonal workers

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Speaker 4: or even students, it's not so much always COVID that

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Speaker 4: you're about. They could bring a health condition with them

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Speaker 4: that was also a drain on the health system. The

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Speaker 4: military don't have that, So there's a simplicity to the

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Speaker 4: military model that is easier for the TROE to sign

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Speaker 4: off on. The way I view Blade and Village for

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Speaker 4: Farmers Federation or Hostility NT is like a large model

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Speaker 4: of the on farm quarantine. So what's your plan for

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Speaker 4: Blade and Village? How would you use it? How would

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Speaker 4: you staff at washing? Infectious disease control program? We're happy

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Speaker 4: to help them fight all that advice, but that's extremely

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Speaker 4: difficult and expensive to set up for them, And so

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Speaker 4: for me, it's not ruling it out, but it does

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Speaker 4: seem unlikely about to get to a good solution there.

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Speaker 2: So is it a monetary thing? Like can we just

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Speaker 2: not afford to do it?

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Speaker 1: When you talk about I mean, obviously out at Howard

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Speaker 1: Springs the federal government is funding that. So is it

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Speaker 1: a monetary thing here?

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Speaker 3: Not not straight up dollars.

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Speaker 4: It's also people, So the logistics are running two operations

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Speaker 4: like that, it's not twice.

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Speaker 3: As hard as it'd be.

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Speaker 4: Multiple levels of difficulty around rostering and staff, and so

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Speaker 4: just you think about it, military bring all that into

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Speaker 4: not just dollars.

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Speaker 3: They bring all the people in all.

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Speaker 2: That sort of stuff, so dollars and staff.

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Speaker 4: Put simply, I guess, and also the chow would have

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Speaker 4: to consider the health of the population coming in.

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Speaker 3: With the military, that's not really an issue.

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Speaker 4: They're coming in kind of healthy with their own access

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Speaker 4: to health services too, So the health of population coming

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Speaker 4: in is also saying the chow considers.

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Speaker 3: We looked at it.

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Speaker 4: We looked at this number of times, obviously different versions.

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Speaker 4: One stage there we thought we were close to him

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Speaker 4: or less day being a nice pipeline.

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Speaker 3: Into the territory.

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Speaker 4: Then they got their second wave and the chow said, well,

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Speaker 4: that's going to be a huge train. They're concerned already

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Speaker 4: because of underlining medical conditions. It's a huge drain on

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Speaker 4: the health system.

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Speaker 1: What about the possibility of, you know, if you're bringing

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Speaker 1: them in from some of those safer countries that in

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Speaker 1: some cases maybe those workers are quarantining or they're going

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Speaker 1: into two weeks of quarantine in the country that they're

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Speaker 1: coming from first and then coming across and quarantining for

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Speaker 1: a further two weeks out there at Bladin point.

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Speaker 2: Surely that would minimize the risk.

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Speaker 4: We've said to the Australian government that we're very open

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Speaker 4: to because you have to trust them right in that circumstance,

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Speaker 4: We'll trust the country where they're coming from. We're open

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Speaker 4: to conversations about how you quarantine at at one end

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Speaker 4: before coming in and that the chow would then take

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Speaker 4: that into consideration into the plans that we sign off

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Speaker 4: on at this end. So that's those are absolutely options.

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Speaker 4: It depends on the country's health system and that our

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Speaker 4: trust in that level of country was the Australian governors

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Speaker 4: to sign off on.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt at the moment we're you know, we're

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Speaker 1: incredibly busy around the Northern Territory. We saw with the

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Speaker 1: Carl Cox concert, also with Base in the Grass there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people visiting. But we also know that

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Speaker 1: in our hospitality and tourism industry is that there is

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Speaker 1: still that work a shortage. We're just caught up with

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Speaker 1: Alex Bruce, you know, he said, in some cases you've

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Speaker 1: got the general manager also doing some of the you know,

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Speaker 1: the other jobs around the place because they're just having

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Speaker 1: to juggle. What options are there here if we cannot

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Speaker 1: fill these jobs with Territorians or with other Australians, what

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Speaker 1: are our options?

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Speaker 5: So we are.

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Speaker 4: I'm not ruling out a pathway for internationals in I

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Speaker 4: think it's really important. We're still working with farmers fed

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Speaker 4: hostelity Inustraian government about what that may be. And that's

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Speaker 4: why I don't roll out blood in village. If there's

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Speaker 4: a way to make that work. I'm not opposed to work.

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Speaker 4: I just I just want to be honest with people.

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Speaker 4: That's extremely difficult. So while are the other options in

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Speaker 4: So there's on farm quarantine obviously has been signed off

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Speaker 4: at two so there's one one spot that's got on

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Speaker 4: farm quarantine arrangements in place. The Straine government's also putting

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Speaker 4: money into moving so a lot of people aren't aware

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Speaker 4: of this, but the Istraine government's got three grand on

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Speaker 4: the table if someone wants to move to Darwin, and

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Speaker 4: six grand on the table if you want to move

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Speaker 4: somewhere else in the Northern Territory, which is a lot

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Speaker 4: of money.

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Speaker 2: So that's from another state though, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: That's in the state. Obviously it's nationalist in the state.

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Speaker 4: Our money that we've got on the table applies to

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Speaker 4: both territories and in the Status, and that's to help

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Speaker 4: businesses with their costs. So fifteen hundred for hostility, but

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Speaker 4: we're not We're agnostic about territorian or interstate.

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Speaker 1: So when did that kick in and how many people

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Speaker 1: have we seen moved to the territory as a result.

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Speaker 4: I can't speak for the Australian government scheme. Our scheme

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Speaker 4: has been running for a week and there's seventy job

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Speaker 4: ads out. I can't tell you how many people have

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Speaker 4: taken up those job ads.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so one week it's been running for seventy job ads.

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Speaker 2: But no, we don't really know. It's probably too early

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Speaker 2: to tell that's.

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Speaker 3: Working or not yet.

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask about our vaccine rollout, and

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Speaker 1: it is being reported nationally today that one in four

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Speaker 1: vaccines are not being used. The Northern Territory is under

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Speaker 1: utilizing our vaccines. Fifty eight percent of those vaccines have

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Speaker 1: been used. Why only fifty eight percent?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good question, Katie.

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Speaker 4: So there's a number of vaccines and every jurisdiction is

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Speaker 4: doing this, a number of vaccines that you have to

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Speaker 4: sort of I'm not the holdbacks the wrong word, but

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Speaker 4: you've got to make sure you've always got enough supply

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Speaker 4: for the second shot, which I think people understand. So

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Speaker 4: there's always a vaccine for the second shot. We're going

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Speaker 4: to start going in waves or surges. Vaccine numbers will

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Speaker 4: look high and then look low as we get into

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Speaker 4: remote communities, and we're doing communities essentially as a batch.

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Speaker 4: So we've agreed to the Australian Government the remote communities,

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Speaker 4: rather than having tranches and getting complicated, just going to

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Speaker 4: remote community, do it all at once.

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Speaker 3: So that's great.

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Speaker 4: We've now convinced the Australian Government that Alice Springs can

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Speaker 4: be treated, you know, to Commas as a remote community

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Speaker 4: because of the large Abaginal population there. So all the

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Speaker 4: trenches and alice springs have just been collapsed. So I

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Speaker 4: think you'll see now a bit of an increase in

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Speaker 4: vaccine use, which I think is positive.

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Speaker 3: That's so we.

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Speaker 2: Stockpiling, because I thought the advice from the feeds was

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Speaker 2: to not stock.

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Speaker 4: Part No, I always say stockpiling. It's more that when

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Speaker 4: you go into remote community to give everyone a vaccine,

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Speaker 4: you go have enough for that remote community. So it's

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Speaker 4: not so much stockpiling, it's making sure that you're every

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Speaker 4: time you're going to remote community, you've got sufficient supplies

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Speaker 4: to do that remote.

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Speaker 2: So vaccinate the whole community at once, whole community one.

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Speaker 1: So Alice Springs, as you said, at the moment, if

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Speaker 1: you're sixteen or over, are you're eligible to get vaccinated?

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Speaker 2: Why don't we do that here in Darlotte.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think it would be a very good idea, Kadi.

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Speaker 4: I'm definitely not ruling that out. That's one of the

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Speaker 4: conversations I'm having with Obviously, you've got to make sure

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Speaker 4: if you go down that kind of path, you've got

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Speaker 4: enough enough vaccines, and so it's just having confidence in supply,

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Speaker 4: which at the moment I think we do. So I

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Speaker 4: would wouldn't rule that out in Darwin. I think if

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Speaker 4: people want to get vaccinated, I want people to be vaccinated.

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Speaker 4: We've got this vaccine hesitancies you've seen. I think the

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Speaker 4: more people who take the vaccine and are okay with it,

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Speaker 4: the more people who are likely to take the vaccine.

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Speaker 1: So who makes the decision as to whether, let's say

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Speaker 1: the whole of Darwin could now be eligible if you're

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Speaker 1: over the age of sixteen.

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Speaker 4: So we work very closely with the Australian government around that.

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Speaker 4: So we want to make sure there's not mixed messaging.

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Speaker 4: We're trying to reduce mixed message between different jurisdictions and

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Speaker 4: as all about making sure because we're not the only

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Speaker 4: ones delivering the vaccine. There's GPS and the abitional Community

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Speaker 4: Control Health Sector which is Australian government run, also deal

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Speaker 4: with the vaccine. So we've got to be a bit

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Speaker 4: in sync. You don't want to have you want to

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Speaker 4: be very careful about the messaging, so we coordinate that

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Speaker 4: we work with them around that that kind of scene.

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Speaker 4: You're oh very keen on gaen vaccine out to as

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Speaker 4: many people as possible. We need to be able to

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Speaker 4: talk about COVID nineteen like we talk about the flu. Now.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure when that's going to happen, but we

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Speaker 4: have to get to a point in time with our

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Speaker 4: vaccination rates or any virals. Just the way we deal

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Speaker 4: with COVID is how we deal with the flu, to

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Speaker 4: give an example, or any other virus, but the flues.

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Speaker 4: I think the flu is an easy comparison. The Spanish

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Speaker 4: flu has never been eradicated. We're still dealing with variations

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Speaker 4: of the Spanish flu. So you know, at some stage

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Speaker 4: COVID nineteen will enter Australia and we'll enter the territory

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Speaker 4: I don't know when that will be, but we need

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Speaker 4: to be able to have the same conversation with COVID

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Speaker 4: nineteen as we have about the FLU.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like, you know, realistically, it sounds like you've

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Speaker 1: sort of gone from us not having COVID into the

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Speaker 1: community to the assumption like you've just said that at

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Speaker 1: some point it's going to happen. I mean, is it

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Speaker 1: going to happen because of our situation with how it springs?

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Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, I'm talking about the national plan

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Speaker 4: from the start round suppression and acknowledging the global situation.

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Speaker 4: So COVID is never going to be eradicated in the world,

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Speaker 4: Like it's just never going to be. At some stage,

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Speaker 4: intentional borders will come down, you know. Mid twenty two

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Speaker 4: is the projection in the strain gunments budget. Might be later.

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Speaker 4: Might I doubt it be earlier, but it might be later.

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Speaker 4: It might be staggered, but some stays some stage in

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Speaker 4: the future next year, year after, hopefully as long away

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Speaker 4: as possible, and we've go as much time to pair

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Speaker 4: as possible. That's what we've been doing. COVID will be

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Speaker 4: in the Australia like the FLU is in Australia. That's

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Speaker 4: the situation we're moving towards. I'm not to saying short term,

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Speaker 4: but you can't be complacent. You can ever be complacent.

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Speaker 4: But some stage we will be talking about COVID nineteen light,

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Speaker 4: we'll talk about the flu.

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Speaker 1: So just to take you back to you know that

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Speaker 1: discussion that we're having about whether all of Darwin could

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Speaker 1: open up to being vaccinated everybody over the age of sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Have you had a discussion with the federal government about

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Speaker 1: that and how soon could this happen.

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Speaker 4: No, not directly with the Prime Minister yet maybe next

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Speaker 4: National Cabinet. It's more an officer levels of conversation at

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Speaker 4: the moment. That's how we've got our springs out the

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Speaker 4: lines is a very practical conversation about the remote obaginal population.

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Speaker 3: I'll talk with.

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Speaker 4: Our officers through SEMPSI about us deliver similar things in

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Speaker 4: other places. I think you can know you're doing an

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Speaker 4: al Springs, Tenant Creek, Cathrone, the other population centers as

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Speaker 4: long as we've got the right distribution methods. So Catherine

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Speaker 4: doesn't have its GP service available till May twenty five.

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Speaker 4: Thankfully GP has put their hand up in Catherine. We

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Speaker 4: don't have a gp service in tenants through there's other

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Speaker 4: provisions and tenant so.

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Speaker 3: There's just complexities to this.

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Speaker 4: But for me, I'm a huge support of getting the

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Speaker 4: vaccine out to as many people as possible because I

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Speaker 4: want conference in the vaccine, and so the more people

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Speaker 4: who take the vaccine, the more conference there will be

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Speaker 4: in the vaccine.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to ask you very briefly about tourism.

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Speaker 1: You did mention just before about those borders, those international borders.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt there's plenty of discussions, some calling for

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Speaker 1: those borders to open the international borders sooner rather than later.

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Speaker 2: How do you feel about that?

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Speaker 4: So this goes to my earlier comments about some stage

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Speaker 4: COVID will come. I think we have to do everything

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Speaker 4: possible to make sure that moment that we open the

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Speaker 4: international borders, Australia is as safe as it can be,

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Speaker 4: that everyone has had the vaccine, or has had opportunity

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Speaker 4: to take the vaccine decided not to take the vaccine,

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Speaker 4: that we've got enough ability in our heals everything to

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Speaker 4: cope with COVID nineteen the same way we cope with

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Speaker 4: the flu. Covid nineteen is going to exist like it's there,

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Speaker 4: it's around the world. We've seen the devastating impacts. It's

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Speaker 4: not going to go away. We can't stay fortate Australia forever.

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Speaker 4: I get that, but we shouldn't open those international borders

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Speaker 4: until we've protected Australians as best we can, and that

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Speaker 4: must come first. People's lives must come first. We absolutely

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Speaker 4: have to make sure we do everything we can on

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Speaker 4: vaccinations and getting our health system ready.

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Speaker 3: But I think we've been very lucky in Australia.

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Speaker 4: I think what we haven't grappled with yet we still

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Speaker 4: having the conversation now is the fact the rest of

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Speaker 4: the world and how they've handled it means that COVID

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Speaker 4: is not going away.

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister. We are going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so very much for your time this morning,

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister, Michael Gunner.

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Speaker 5: There