Speaker 1: We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this
Speaker 1: land that we record this podcast on and pay respects
Speaker 1: to the elders, past, present and emerging. We must always
Speaker 1: remember that under the concrete and asphalt that this land is, was,
Speaker 1: and always will be Aboriginal Land. Hi, I'm Amanda and
Speaker 1: I'm Rumby. Welcome to It's Lay It the Studio Special Edition.
Speaker 1: We are still geeking over this. Wait, yes, we are
Speaker 1: acting like we never seen nice things ever, not this
Speaker 1: type of nice, not like this call from our little
Speaker 1: laptop roomby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anytime you want to come roll with me. There
Speaker 2: was one call, not long call, never mind.
Speaker 1: Thank you be still singing, So we see on this podcast.
Speaker 1: Will love to go into layers. It's layer and I
Speaker 1: don't think there's a more layered topic than privilege in.
Speaker 2: All its aspects.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the rise of like everything happens
Speaker 1: with Black Lives Matter and social movements and COVID in
Speaker 1: itself because there was a lot of privilege attached to
Speaker 1: a pandemic.
Speaker 2: What is privilege to you.
Speaker 3: Yo, Well, immediately when you talk about privilege, I think
Speaker 3: of the what's it called when you have Haley Biber,
Speaker 3: What would you call white passing No, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: no's nepotism, I think, but.
Speaker 2: It's not my passing white. I think I was all hathy, housy.
Speaker 1: No idea anyway, but like nepotism, but like, she has
Speaker 1: a privilege to be who she is because she grew
Speaker 1: up in a successful family. Therefore she has access to
Speaker 1: certain brands and people. So that's a form of privilege.
Speaker 1: And I would define privilege.
Speaker 3: As having an advantage over others, often in a way
Speaker 3: that you who is privilege is not aware of or
Speaker 3: is not cognizant of, because it's natural, it comes naturally,
Speaker 3: or you're born into it, or it seems natural unless
Speaker 3: you are told otherwise, or make sure you educate yourself otherwise.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's almost like an exposure thing, right, you think, oh,
Speaker 1: this is my normal, Yes, not realizing your normal steps
Speaker 1: above someone else's. Yes, and also how their world operates
Speaker 1: without that, Yeah, definitely, without that, whatever the privilege would
Speaker 1: be exactly yeah, exactly. So what makes the notion of
Speaker 1: privilege tricky to chat about, I think is for the
Speaker 1: longest time, it's been tied to wealth, so people always
Speaker 1: thought I'm privileged, and the word privilege meant luxury, wealth, money,
Speaker 1: and then I think all these social movements made it
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, back to every day, Yeah, what
Speaker 1: is privilege? And I think people don't want to seem
Speaker 1: like they are in favor. You know, it's easy to
Speaker 1: play the victim. It's easy to play the one who's
Speaker 1: been wrong done, like you're like, oh my god, like
Speaker 1: poor little me. But it's harder to confidently operate in
Speaker 1: that Oh yeah I got privilege and then what So
Speaker 1: I think people always want to be like no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I do struggling. Yeah I'm struggling too. Yeah, like I'm
Speaker 1: just the same as you. They don't want to be
Speaker 1: like no actually in that space.
Speaker 3: And I think also because the world loves the underdog
Speaker 3: story hundred percent, the victor over struggled, the you know, overcoming.
Speaker 3: We love that storyline, it's really hard to buy into like, oh,
Speaker 3: I was born with privilege and I have even my mouthlage,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to have my great grandchildren will be
Speaker 3: privileged for the rest, do you understand. Yeah, it's very uncomfortable,
Speaker 3: and as people, we don't want to have uncomfortable conversation.
Speaker 3: So that's what makes it really complex. Yeah, And I
Speaker 3: think it's also just like being comfortable with being privileged.
Speaker 3: Is that hard space to like accept.
Speaker 1: Like if someone everyone's like, oh, you know, even you're
Speaker 1: in becoming over We had to apply for a visa, yes,
Speaker 1: and Tom wouldn't have had to yes. And even just
Speaker 1: that conversation of he's seeing you run around get all
Speaker 1: the papers together and he's just like, I'm literally just
Speaker 1: going to rock up at the Emeralds thing and go
Speaker 1: I'm here in Australia and Dundale.
Speaker 2: You're a tourist. Why would you need to?
Speaker 1: And I think it's that like uncomfortable nature of it
Speaker 1: of like you, I see you struggling and I don't
Speaker 1: have to and I had no say in us being different, yes,
Speaker 1: because it's like, well what did Tom do to not
Speaker 1: to have that? What did he himself do to be check?
Speaker 1: And Australia and Europe have a good relationship. You can
Speaker 1: just rock up. What did you do to be Zimbabwean
Speaker 1: and have to apply for a visa and coming to
Speaker 1: Australia as a bigger ass? Yeah, we did nothing. We
Speaker 1: just existed And then why are we so different? It's
Speaker 1: such a great comfortable right, it's a great example. Can
Speaker 1: I ask, though, when did you realize you had some privilege? I?
Speaker 2: Oh, this is whoa take me back?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know, obviously you know, we've talked a
Speaker 3: lot on this podcast about our lack of privilege in
Speaker 3: a lot of areas, whether it was colonialism, whether it
Speaker 3: was you know.
Speaker 1: Patriarchy, whatever. But the truth is, we are aware that
Speaker 1: we do have privilege. But do you remember the first
Speaker 1: time you were aware? It probably has to tie back
Speaker 1: to our classes. An episode where it's like North versus South. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, when you go to a school with other
Speaker 1: white people in this when you have a friend, if
Speaker 1: you yourself don't have a simming pool, they have a
Speaker 1: swimming pool in their backyard. Yeah, you know, it's those
Speaker 1: within family setups. Was gonna we I don't think we
Speaker 1: could articulate.
Speaker 2: What it was for me. It was when we went
Speaker 2: to Kumusha.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my god, yes, and we were young and
Speaker 1: you'd see people running after the car and like you've
Speaker 1: never seen a car and then you get there and
Speaker 1: everyone's excited to have you there.
Speaker 3: And how our parents would have to take a lot
Speaker 3: of gifts and things for them and like food and
Speaker 3: you have.
Speaker 1: All these visitors and within the food electricity, right, so
Speaker 1: your parents wouldn't be buying fresh milk, you would be
Speaker 1: long life milks like oh my god, it's it's and how.
Speaker 3: You look at you, like oh your dress or your
Speaker 3: shoes or you know, or then where I think our
Speaker 3: parents talk about an example where my brother asked when
Speaker 3: he was really young and we go Kumusha is like
Speaker 3: rural areas village where my dad came from or comes from,
Speaker 3: and he was like, when are we watching TV?
Speaker 2: Like do you get what I'm saying? And they all
Speaker 2: just look at you like.
Speaker 3: Like you know, or like where's the bed when we
Speaker 3: sleep on the floor? And then they're like, wow, you've
Speaker 3: nailed it, because that.
Speaker 2: Is yeah, and we think it's an experience like.
Speaker 1: Oh we need to get excited bathing in a dish, Okay,
Speaker 1: we can run around.
Speaker 3: The foot, yeah, going to try and fetch water? What
Speaker 3: what all that?
Speaker 1: And then that's someone's daily life, your little holiday, which
Speaker 1: is what like with tourism as well, right, people like
Speaker 1: go to these countries and set up like schools or whatever.
Speaker 1: People are like, oh, you're just your tourists shopping for
Speaker 1: like poverty shopping means it seems like it's that someone's
Speaker 1: everyday life exactly, But in a way, we were doing
Speaker 1: that in our own space exactly because for a week
Speaker 1: it's fun to go no bath in the river, but
Speaker 1: hey come week two, I yeah, me, I want my
Speaker 1: shower exactly.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, right, whish I never thought of it that way.
Speaker 3: And then automatically with that privilege, it's people want to
Speaker 3: be closer to you because there is that I guess,
Speaker 3: and we're talking about financial privilege compared to our families,
Speaker 3: like extended families, So people want to be closer to
Speaker 3: people who have more access. So people are friendlier to
Speaker 3: you or nicer to you, or sometimes was the reverse,
Speaker 3: they meaner to you because they you know, you have
Speaker 3: that privilege over them, you know.
Speaker 1: Like comfort yourself with your bed, yes, you know, like
Speaker 1: just you know you're fine, we can attack you because
Speaker 1: you actually take it right, Yeah, with grace.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean if we even listed different types of privilege
Speaker 1: and the layers around them, we're gonna go there because
Speaker 1: that's what we do on this podcast. Even like the
Speaker 1: first one that comes to mind is obviously white privilege.
Speaker 2: Yes, what do you think about that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That's a very very layered topic.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: It's in everything right, because it's quite interesting. I have
Speaker 3: this conversation with my husband and we talk about I'll
Speaker 3: ask him sometimes like would you ever want to be
Speaker 3: black like me, you know, like a black woman like
Speaker 3: And he's like exactly, He's like no, I think now
Speaker 3: because he's seen what we go through and he is
Speaker 3: a way that he's operated with that privilege. And I
Speaker 3: think it's in everything right. Like, Oh, for example, the
Speaker 3: other day, I was talking about how we dress, and
Speaker 3: I was like, black people, we're very conscious of how
Speaker 3: we look. You don't want to look like you're homeless
Speaker 3: because if you look homeless, people are afraid of you.
Speaker 3: They think you're going to rob them, attack them or
Speaker 3: something like that. Whereas our white counterparts can just move
Speaker 3: around looking like a hobos and it's fine. And it's
Speaker 3: like that's a form of white privilege, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean even in the workspaces, like we talked about
Speaker 1: this other day. If I rock up to a meeting
Speaker 1: just looking jeans and a tea and this is like
Speaker 1: a corporate meetings like anyone else.
Speaker 2: Like, oh yeah, it's casual Friday.
Speaker 1: For me, It's like Okay, what's wrong, you know, or
Speaker 1: the undermine my intelligence because I must look like so
Speaker 1: I have to always look good. Yes, put on put together,
Speaker 1: you know, even the days of people laughing, you know,
Speaker 1: working from home, you can wear sweatsh yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And I've mentioned, I think I've mentioned before on the
Speaker 1: podcast about living in the Czech Republic. How as soon
Speaker 1: as you step out the door, I'm very conscious of
Speaker 1: who I am and my skin and being aware of
Speaker 1: not being threatening, being polite, smiling, but also.
Speaker 2: In the background you not too you know.
Speaker 3: So things like that where you have to think about
Speaker 3: how you are perceived constantly is a privilege? Is an
Speaker 3: what's the opposite of privilege? It's a handicap that I
Speaker 3: have compared to yeah, someone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can go in what about and this
Speaker 1: is a good one white passing. Oh not that I'm
Speaker 1: white passing. So I'm just gonna talk as if. But
Speaker 1: isn't that handy because you can, like you can go
Speaker 1: both sides. Yes, you know, you can, you know, can
Speaker 1: invite it to the cookout, but you also can be
Speaker 1: people don't even realize. Yes, and you know in Australia,
Speaker 1: I mean similar to African American experience. We've got first
Speaker 1: nations people and some of them are white passing, and
Speaker 1: there is privileged people are like, oh your first nation,
Speaker 1: like people don't even like and there's a take back.
Speaker 2: Like oh yeah.
Speaker 1: And that even that us like why does it make
Speaker 1: a difference? But it does, right, that's why you're acknowledging.
Speaker 3: In South Africa and you know in a part day
Speaker 3: they used to the and I think also in America
Speaker 3: during slavery they use the pencil.
Speaker 2: Yes, or like a brown paper bag.
Speaker 3: How if the pencil fell through your hair, got more privilege?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds so stupid, like yeah, well brown paper
Speaker 1: bag comparing you how life you are compared or dark
Speaker 1: you are compared. Yeah, there is privilege with it because obviously, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can tow the line. And like I'll have to say,
Speaker 1: even Jerome now being a biracial child so far, he
Speaker 1: looks white passing.
Speaker 2: Sometimes his hair is coming through the Thank God for
Speaker 2: the afro. His hair is giving him away.
Speaker 1: It's like oh yeah, but like it's sometimes I see
Speaker 1: him in daycare, when I see my around other kids,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh okay, I get it. And even when
Speaker 1: I pick him up, the educators that don't know me
Speaker 1: will like point me to the black kid and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, I'm.
Speaker 2: Here for that one. That one's mine.
Speaker 1: You know, they're like, oh, and I think when I'm
Speaker 1: traveling with him, am I gonna look like the help? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Exactly when I'm with this, And then you have to
Speaker 3: think about also how you look being presentable?
Speaker 2: Lord? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about male privilege?
Speaker 1: Oh I can go in man's plaining, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: and I hate men's plainings, brou but yeah, tied to patriarchy, yeah,
Speaker 1: to you know, just like the respect they get. I
Speaker 1: think watching the Bobby Movie again again, you know, our
Speaker 1: last season was very much Bobby era, very influenced by that.
Speaker 1: And how can leaving the Bobby world went into the
Speaker 1: real world and saw the amount of privilege that men
Speaker 1: had so enticed by that, I think that was a
Speaker 1: great depiction of like male privilege. You know, like you
Speaker 1: can just anything goes, You're respected, you don't have to
Speaker 1: you can be arrogant and it's confident. Absolutely, you can
Speaker 1: be a dick and it's like, oh he gets the
Speaker 1: job done. Exactly On a farther level, if you just
Speaker 1: told your child people are like.
Speaker 2: You're such a great ya. Oh wow, you changed that piece.
Speaker 1: Whoa.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the bar is low, so low, So like I
Speaker 3: would consider being a male just for that privilege.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, you don't have to show up really and.
Speaker 1: Also even if you think about on a health perspective, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were talking about hormones and like how men wake
Speaker 1: up with tosterone and it's pretty much on the same
Speaker 1: keen level and women we go through the I think
Speaker 1: in one week where it's like things are good, yeah,
Speaker 1: and the rest of the time we're finding some sort
Speaker 1: of struggle.
Speaker 2: My sister was telling me.
Speaker 1: That population what is a luteal phases and all you
Speaker 1: can go deep into a child in the biology book
Speaker 1: and you'll see yeah, like and you're like, okay, so
Speaker 1: we are actually governed by our hormones and men are like.
Speaker 2: Oh, you guys are being difficult because they never have that.
Speaker 2: I have that.
Speaker 3: My sister explains, I don't know what it's called, guys,
Speaker 3: I'm very bad with terminology, but how men go through
Speaker 3: a certain phases, like a cycle, like maybe.
Speaker 2: Our whole cycle luteo whatever. Men like they do it
Speaker 2: in the space of a day. So that's why they
Speaker 2: can be consistent.
Speaker 3: They can consistently wake up, go to the gym with
Speaker 3: know like, oh do I feel like it? Or so emotional,
Speaker 3: but women like it's a different ball game.
Speaker 2: And then obviously the world.
Speaker 1: Is made easy for men.
Speaker 3: It's all, you know, constructed, so men can thrive and
Speaker 3: we're as women trying to fit into that.
Speaker 2: Right, that's sad, so sad.
Speaker 1: What about gender, I think having said that about males
Speaker 1: quite funny because sometimes there is a bit of gender
Speaker 1: privilege being a female.
Speaker 2: Like even if you think about.
Speaker 1: Ukraine or Gaza, people are like the women and the children. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the men have to stay back and find Yes, it's
Speaker 1: like I've never.
Speaker 2: Had a gun before. I'm sure some guys are like
Speaker 2: I don't want to, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there is a bit of obviously we're more protected,
Speaker 1: I guess, and there's in a patriarchal society, society with
Speaker 1: damsels in distress, but it has its privileges.
Speaker 2: Even like on a day two pays. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 2: of men or.
Speaker 1: Even if my my tire punctures, it's okay if I
Speaker 1: look helpless it it was a male I wish. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you're like to even like my husband finds it
Speaker 1: so hard to ask for help. Yes, even in a store,
Speaker 1: he will like go come back, and I didn't find it.
Speaker 2: I looked and did you ask?
Speaker 1: Yeah, asking because it's I can't look helpless.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, where's women?
Speaker 1: It was like I'll find and even I even have
Speaker 1: purpose is sometimes acted dumb to get what I need
Speaker 1: because I'm just like it's playing to this guy's ego. Ego, Yes,
Speaker 1: and they will need to get what we need and
Speaker 1: move on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so true. So this nice to be a woman. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're like carrying stuff. Don't carry that, you're so gentle,
Speaker 2: just please my nails.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly, I mean carrying on for that. What
Speaker 1: about heterosexual privilege, oh.
Speaker 3: Thousand percent, Like you don't have to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 3: You just don't even think twice, like you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: of course, like I go here and you go there,
Speaker 3: or like just the way marriage is set up for
Speaker 3: the longest time. You know a lot of people are
Speaker 3: not still to this day able to be married or
Speaker 3: together because of laws and restrictions. I mean we come
Speaker 3: from a country where it's a legal yeah, which is
Speaker 3: like wild illegal like proper, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then this appears like you gander where they're mandating
Speaker 1: that you can just do whatever you want. If you're
Speaker 1: someone who's not hereterosexual, we can just beat you up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's like in the world twenty four is still
Speaker 1: arguing over this, like what does my love life have
Speaker 1: to do with anybody else?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So definitely, I think there's privilege in just being
Speaker 3: able to just we heard stories.
Speaker 1: Of ok, people making cakes for weddings and not realizing
Speaker 1: it's like a gay couple or something, and then once
Speaker 1: they do, like you know in the South, like in America,
Speaker 1: and once they do, they don't want to put like
Speaker 1: two males on the you know, the topper.
Speaker 2: So they refuse. So oh yeah, refuse service. And you're like, why,
Speaker 2: how is it exact same cake you're making. How's it
Speaker 2: affecting you're paying you? Yeah, how's it affecting anyway? Which
Speaker 2: is there's definitely publiged in that space.
Speaker 3: Tying on to that, it's sister gender. I think I
Speaker 3: mentioned it with the with the toilet thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, or even like how how does it feel
Speaker 1: to be comfortable knowing you are who you are?
Speaker 2: And then someone who doesn't We need.
Speaker 1: To allow space for that yeah, like I don't know
Speaker 1: how it feel to think, Okay, I'm born female, but
Speaker 1: I don't feel yeah, and then how do I now operate?
Speaker 3: And then it all filters a young age, right, like
Speaker 3: how they define you when you're born, right.
Speaker 1: Like you have a baby, healthy baby boy and for
Speaker 1: the rest of your life and toys you get, toy
Speaker 1: cars you get and it's just like, really all society
Speaker 1: is molded in this like male female, and this is
Speaker 1: who you are and anything in between.
Speaker 2: It's like, we don't know what to do with that. Yeah, yeah, kind.
Speaker 1: Of, I mean moving off that, and I mean we
Speaker 1: touched this a bit about this with Zimbabwe, but what
Speaker 1: about socio economic privilege like money.
Speaker 3: I mean money really governs the world. And then we
Speaker 3: can go in and we've talked about obviously classism in
Speaker 3: our previous episodes in Zimbabwetha rives all this and it's
Speaker 3: the level of respect some people get just because you
Speaker 3: look like you are well to do so you deserve
Speaker 3: more respect, which is if anyone I was watching Succession
Speaker 3: on the plane, I've been talking.
Speaker 2: I've been I think every day I've.
Speaker 1: Been mentioning this, watching Succession, and you're seeing this these
Speaker 1: hyper privileged people, and I'm like, who, what, Why the
Speaker 1: hell do they deserve any respect from anybody? Like they
Speaker 1: have no conscience, They're just so selfish and you know,
Speaker 1: but the world we live in will give them many
Speaker 1: many chances to be misogynists and whatnot and what not
Speaker 1: because of their socio economic standing as compared to someone
Speaker 1: who isn't well. They also treat you like your disposal boy, yes,
Speaker 1: because in some ways to them.
Speaker 2: You are Yeah, I can buy you, I can.
Speaker 1: But do you think opposite thinking, especially like now in
Speaker 1: terms of inheritance and things like that, Like obviously always
Speaker 1: thinking about how to improve each generation and generational wealth.
Speaker 2: Is a thing. Yeah, you talked about that as well.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a way to operate when you
Speaker 1: are more well to do financially like without how do
Speaker 1: you help that?
Speaker 2: I think be a human, have a heart, I don't know,
Speaker 2: humble yourself. Maybe they need to go kumosha as well
Speaker 2: once in a while.
Speaker 1: Yes, you did speak about that, and that probably now
Speaker 1: I look back on and yeah, those are probably humbling experiences.
Speaker 2: You get back home and switching on.
Speaker 1: That light like you're like a Charlie, I'm glad I
Speaker 1: have electricity exactly. And I think even like you can
Speaker 1: teach people to be good humans, bright like you, because
Speaker 1: I think assholes are taught or nurtured one So just
Speaker 1: teach people to have some level of consideration. Tying into
Speaker 1: pet peeves about not making, you know, raising your child
Speaker 1: like you don't you can't move around them better than
Speaker 1: you because X Y Z, And just like respect for
Speaker 1: people and understand of where people come from doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you have to like everyone. Doesn't mean you have to
Speaker 1: sit and take everything from everyone, but at least not
Speaker 1: be a dickhead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean really, succession is really bad. That's really
Speaker 2: got you in your fields to record. What about being
Speaker 2: able bodied? Oh, privilege of being able bodied?
Speaker 1: I am so ashamed to admit that I never thought
Speaker 1: about this until I had a child. Yeah, because then
Speaker 1: I had to use a pram. And when you use
Speaker 1: a PRAM, you obviously use the same services that someone
Speaker 1: in a wheelchair, for example, would have to use. And
Speaker 1: now going to the shopping mall is a whole different experience. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm like, where's the nearest lift?
Speaker 2: Where?
Speaker 1: Like, even the way I map the shopping mall is
Speaker 1: now different, and I find myself thinking why aren't they
Speaker 1: enough lifts escalators or there's someplings I can't go even
Speaker 1: the cinema. I've never been to the cinema using an elevator,
Speaker 1: like at my local cinema.
Speaker 2: And they're like it's all the way in the backs
Speaker 2: some corner.
Speaker 1: You knowing, You're like, wow, so true, and isn't funny
Speaker 1: that able bodied people?
Speaker 2: You know, when there's disabled parking sometimes you're like, there's
Speaker 2: so much disabled parking, man.
Speaker 1: Like it's annoying, especially when you can't find parking, which
Speaker 1: is such an able body thing to be like, oh
Speaker 1: or parking there, yes, exactly, even worse exactly exactly so.
Speaker 2: That and then you know you're.
Speaker 1: Just assuming like oh they can make it, make do,
Speaker 1: but like really they can't. And I think for me,
Speaker 1: my father in law is you know, seeing how he's grappled,
Speaker 1: like I think that's also shown me like we really don't.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, think about this.
Speaker 1: But having said that, do you think he can also
Speaker 1: be used opposite, like to get ahead, like yeah.
Speaker 2: Like fast of Storius, he's actually getting out of jail.
Speaker 2: Did you see that?
Speaker 1: No, yes, parole is like ten years is already it's
Speaker 1: been ten years girl.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, up for parole and you know in South
Speaker 2: Africa it will be granted like it's not even.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, that sounds like I can't be racist because
Speaker 3: you know in this context.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but wow, I mean, but I gotta know.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're facing so many different things that I
Speaker 1: think it's okay to sometimes play up that card.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, because in most.
Speaker 1: Spaces you're added, yes, when you're not able bodied. So
Speaker 1: and I hate the assumption sometimes when you're disabled physically,
Speaker 1: especially that you are also mentally. Oh yeah, especially in
Speaker 1: our community, you're not to.
Speaker 2: Be seen, you're not the way tucked away. Did you
Speaker 2: pray enough?
Speaker 1: Because if you hadn't prayed, that's why he or she
Speaker 1: turned out this way. So it's like it's almost like
Speaker 1: a death sentence. And in a space like zimbabwesh because
Speaker 1: I don't even know even schools.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah I think there was one.
Speaker 1: I think that new or something I know, but the
Speaker 1: whole of Zimbable goes to this one school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's wilds so true. I must say. In our
Speaker 3: family extended family, we have a relative who was wheelchair
Speaker 3: ridden but was always there the family gather that always
Speaker 3: like always there, so that's that's pretty dope.
Speaker 2: But about religion, the privilege.
Speaker 3: And we're seeing the issues just feeling privileged in the
Speaker 3: Gaza conflict because it's like one person feels their right
Speaker 3: and I think there's a privilege to being Christian. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I feel like there is, you know, a privilege to
Speaker 3: being Jewish, like because obviously being very conscious they went
Speaker 3: through a lot, like you know, with Holocaust and all this,
Speaker 3: but there's a handicapped being like Muslim or you know,
Speaker 3: it's because.
Speaker 1: People don't understand your religious like ninety eleven did not
Speaker 1: help Muslims at all, because now Americans and people who
Speaker 1: drive that type of media just think, yes, you know,
Speaker 1: the worst at airport's.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, so they see the distinction, right, and especially
Speaker 3: because their religion is quite visible for women to wear
Speaker 3: burkers and you know, so then it's quite in your face,
Speaker 3: and I think, if I'm not mistaken, in the Czech Republic,
Speaker 3: they banned the wearing of burkers in France as.
Speaker 1: Well something and I was like, so what now, how yeah,
Speaker 1: how like how does that affect you?
Speaker 2: But just so you don't intimidate.
Speaker 1: Or like, you know, and the assumption that Christians have
Speaker 1: that Muslims, especially when comes to women.
Speaker 2: It's tied to oppression.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well there's some women who love their religion.
Speaker 3: It's not type to pressure the same way Christians are.
Speaker 3: But it's like yeah, definitely, or if you're atheist, then
Speaker 3: you don't believe in anything. And now people are like,
Speaker 3: let's pray, like to.
Speaker 2: Whom I got, did I send them a Bible versus yeah.
Speaker 1: Like stop and I've noticed I don't know if you
Speaker 1: have the same thing. We notice a lot with myself.
Speaker 1: When he comes to Zimbabwe especially, I just tell him
Speaker 1: put up with He doesn't have a right to say,
Speaker 1: oh no, I don't want to just sit there like
Speaker 1: a chat, or I'll step outside out of respect to you.
Speaker 1: And if you think about it on like a you know,
Speaker 1: on a basic level, he is meant to say, you know, look,
Speaker 1: this is not because why would he stay in the
Speaker 1: room and pretend to appease you, And yet you don't
Speaker 1: want to do the opposite where it's like, okay, let's
Speaker 1: not pray.
Speaker 2: Because it makes him uncomfortable for sure, and you don't
Speaker 2: go to church. You know, they don't understand that.
Speaker 1: They're just like it's like that I don't eat meat.
Speaker 2: Remove the meat guy you have. It's like, I just
Speaker 2: not how it works.
Speaker 3: I remember when I I had my vegan era and
Speaker 3: I'll be like, oh, I'm vegan what and I don't
Speaker 3: eat meat? Oh, so make chicken and I'm like, or
Speaker 3: we'll make eggs.
Speaker 1: Well you know then that actually shows that the privilege
Speaker 1: in itself exactly where you can just operate without any
Speaker 1: of these tolerances to food and people respect that they'll
Speaker 1: consider to consider you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: We really someone needs to do a movie like with
Speaker 1: just Zimbos and how left field.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah they can. There's so many WTF moments like
Speaker 2: being a Zimbable and you're just like yeah, and you
Speaker 2: have to roll the person. You can't find any one always,
Speaker 2: you can't fight me up. It's like no, don't just
Speaker 2: take the meat out, like the meat cooked in.
Speaker 1: Like they're like, okay, what about passport privilege?
Speaker 2: And I feel like you can talk on this because shifts.
Speaker 1: I have seen the ship on my own personal journey,
Speaker 1: obviously being Zimbabwe when I came to Australia, then becoming
Speaker 1: an Australian citizen and traveling under both passports is literally
Speaker 1: day and night. Yeah, I have never thought about anything.
Speaker 1: When I'm on Australian one. I'm just like sometimes I
Speaker 1: probably think if someone was going to ask me for
Speaker 1: a visa, I probably rock up with that one and
Speaker 1: go oh oops, because I forgot all about it. I
Speaker 1: think when you go to Brazil or something, you have
Speaker 1: to apply for a visa before, even as an Australian,
Speaker 1: so you have to get like yellow.
Speaker 2: Fever and all these things.
Speaker 1: But that's the only place everywhere else has been like
Speaker 1: just in yeah, yeah, you want to come see our country,
Speaker 1: just walk on the converse, you know. And then Zimbabwe
Speaker 1: is the utter opposite.
Speaker 3: Of like when I was applying for my visa here,
Speaker 3: and I think I also had a level of privilege
Speaker 3: a because of where I now live, yeah, and b
Speaker 3: because of who I'm married to. But like, for instance,
Speaker 3: his visa that he applied in solidarity with me, he went.
Speaker 2: The same as me. He gotta love Tom solidarity.
Speaker 3: He went the same route with me for the application,
Speaker 3: and his visa came out before mine. Child, don't you
Speaker 3: read the yeah exactly the fact it was quick fus
Speaker 3: like literally we applied the same same information, same time,
Speaker 3: sent the same time. His came out maybe two three
Speaker 3: weeks prior to mine, and for me, it was like
Speaker 3: I think they were like, girl, just remember which passed.
Speaker 3: You just sweared out a little a little bit longer,
Speaker 3: just a little And if you think about opportunities missed, yes,
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, I couldn't get a visa, Yes, you know,
Speaker 3: and they say, okay, the next person. If it's for
Speaker 3: a job or whatever, they're not gonna wait. If it's
Speaker 3: something that needs to be done, they're around for you.
Speaker 3: And even then I had privilege of having traveled before
Speaker 3: we get into that. Yeah, because then, I mean, part
Speaker 3: of the visa application is like proof of travel, proof
Speaker 3: of visa. I don't know how many million stamps I
Speaker 3: was just putting in the thing to show, to show
Speaker 3: that I actually have seen parts of the world and
Speaker 3: photos too, right, like you know, like that's literally someone.
Speaker 2: Has to really, Yes, you show them your whole life, your.
Speaker 3: Whole life, where if someone's never had that, you are
Speaker 3: already step back.
Speaker 1: I remember when applying for my cousin to come, and
Speaker 1: obviously this was when I just given birth and I
Speaker 1: wanted to support and I remember it was like, okay,
Speaker 1: now we've never traveled anywhere, and I had to play
Speaker 1: that my mom's dead card, like you know, I had
Speaker 1: to be like I need support card, mental health card,
Speaker 1: you know, like, and I'm sure the person reading this
Speaker 1: was like, this is a risk. And even then they
Speaker 1: only gave them a single entry three months to the
Speaker 1: bare minimum, like we're chancing it, yeah, you know, and
Speaker 1: even then they first denied it before.
Speaker 2: As you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like after all that, if you've never been anywhere,
Speaker 1: when when you're gonna get the opportunity to go anywhere?
Speaker 2: If you can't.
Speaker 3: And here's the kicker though, is I know Zimbabweans that
Speaker 3: are way more traveled than people I've met in the
Speaker 3: so called first world country, and we love to travel.
Speaker 3: It's not for lack of I think obviously because of circumstances.
Speaker 2: We are just more.
Speaker 3: But even for pleasure and leisure, we like to travel
Speaker 3: or we're curious. And I'm like, we still manage to
Speaker 3: do it, holding the green bomba make it work, make
Speaker 3: it work, so willing to be willing to suffer for that?
Speaker 1: I mean carrying on from that obviously birthplace then becomes
Speaker 1: a privilege something you don't even decide, yes, like your parents.
Speaker 1: Just when I'm bammed somewhere and your mom was like,
Speaker 1: I'll just give birth here and then that decides the
Speaker 1: rest of your life. People do those travel passport tourism, Yes,
Speaker 1: what is it tourism pregnancies? Yes, where they go to
Speaker 1: countries when they know if I give birth to this country,
Speaker 1: my child will be a citizen, you know in some
Speaker 1: place like Switzerland, I think, where it doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: you're one here, you'll never be never be like also
Speaker 1: the yeah, yeah, so isn't that just crazy? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: insane because you don't choose. That's why saying is.
Speaker 3: Lack of the draw where you're born, Like, you don't
Speaker 3: choose who your family is, even if you dial it
Speaker 3: down on a micro levelism, you don't choose if you're
Speaker 3: born north of Samura or.
Speaker 2: South of like you weren't like birth me here.
Speaker 3: That's just and yeah exactly so definitely a lot of
Speaker 3: privilege there.
Speaker 2: So what about location privilege? I guess what I mean,
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Same as like north or south, or like being born
Speaker 1: in as opposed to a smaller town.
Speaker 3: Yeah, also where you live, like now like you're living
Speaker 3: here in Melbourne, yes, living, I don't know somewhere else,
Speaker 3: you know, the.
Speaker 2: Middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, regional areas obviously getting less or more expensive
Speaker 1: stuff because it's taken so much to get it there.
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, so much like every decision actually think
Speaker 1: about it is like okay, privilege, but how are you
Speaker 1: gonna live with this go around apologics? Yeah, geographical is
Speaker 1: the same. I mean, there's no reason why we were
Speaker 1: born in Southern Africa as opposed to like South Sudan
Speaker 1: and the civil war you know what this daily exactly.
Speaker 3: That's a good point to remember because I remember so
Speaker 3: many times in my life I was like, why was
Speaker 3: I born Zimbabwean from this little country with all these
Speaker 3: issues and this freaking passport and you can go on.
Speaker 3: But it's also a good reminder that others have it
Speaker 3: worse and they also didn't even choose.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Can't imagine fleeing from my country literally from having to like,
Speaker 1: I think the most for me modern day seeing that
Speaker 1: happen was obviously Ukraine. Yes, that was a wake up
Speaker 1: call for me because I'd never really seen like people fleeing,
Speaker 1: people fleeing and people talk of it, but I think
Speaker 1: maybe the documentation obviously of Ukraine was on a much
Speaker 1: different scale to other countries, which is another situation in itself. Yes,
Speaker 1: but seeing like all these people just uprooted and Russia
Speaker 1: is coming, and it's like.
Speaker 2: Imagine, can you imagine?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yo, people are moving back, moving back home.
Speaker 3: They're like we done with y'all and being like discriminated against.
Speaker 3: So yeah, what about the ooh the privilege of non immigration?
Speaker 2: Oh tell us girl.
Speaker 1: Do we even need to go into as someone who's
Speaker 1: obviously not celebrating Christmas anywhere near my family?
Speaker 2: Like you imagine that? Yeah, just dad is down the road.
Speaker 1: And it's WoT to me to think you can exist
Speaker 1: in a world where your siblings, your parents, you live
Speaker 1: in the same friends, your workmates.
Speaker 2: And that's your life everything. It does not exist. My
Speaker 2: brain cannot cogniate when you.
Speaker 1: Travel somewhere it's for traveling for pleasure or business, not
Speaker 1: because that's your home away from home.
Speaker 2: That's wild. Your home is your home.
Speaker 1: Imagine like us having grown up in sin gone to
Speaker 1: the schools you went to, and then stayed there for university,
Speaker 1: for university work, our family. I feel like I'll be
Speaker 1: a different person you would be even just hearing that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, would even recognize myself because.
Speaker 2: How would you operate. Yeah, you wouldn't even think.
Speaker 3: Because our parents when they grew up, like they were
Speaker 3: quick for us to return back to Oh yeah, like
Speaker 3: they were like they went outside for education, Like okay,
Speaker 3: if that if the scholarships or whatever they were given.
Speaker 3: A lot of them were on scholarships had been granted
Speaker 3: within the homeland, they would have just you know, if
Speaker 3: it wasn't like, oh, come to Oxford or comege whatever,
Speaker 3: they would have just stayed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I still did stay. They graduated and
Speaker 2: packed up and moved back.
Speaker 3: Because I think my parents like graduated university and immediately
Speaker 3: like moved back, bought a house, got married.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just like, and nothing irks me more than
Speaker 1: when our parents don't understand that it's different for us, Yes,
Speaker 1: because it's like, no, I don't have to balance always thinking. Oh,
Speaker 1: like when you wake up there's a thousand calls on
Speaker 1: your phone and you're like, if I was just home,
Speaker 1: I would just pop on over. Yes, that's like it's
Speaker 1: completely different ball game, or when you have to have
Speaker 1: a holiday away from your holiday because when you go
Speaker 1: home for two weeks, stress, stress, working, slaving, Oh, we're
Speaker 1: going to have a barbecue for you, but you're slavy.
Speaker 2: Give us that money and making in Australia will check
Speaker 2: Republic and you're like that's crazy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: What about like transportation, like this is such a you
Speaker 1: talked about going Musha and yeah, not having access obviously
Speaker 1: to a car, yes, or like we have the comfort
Speaker 1: of that, you know, even for example, my grandma who's
Speaker 1: passed away now, she lived in rural Zimbabwe and she
Speaker 1: was ill and they had to get a car to
Speaker 1: transport her from the village to the city when she
Speaker 1: passed away.
Speaker 3: But just that having to mission to get that, or
Speaker 3: even things like ambulance like in zim Gary I've forgotten
Speaker 3: his surname of Zimbabwean artists passed. My parents who passed away,
Speaker 3: he couldn't get to a hospital in time. He could
Speaker 3: have survived, but because of that lack of access to
Speaker 3: medical transportation lost his life. That I think that's a
Speaker 3: clear black and white of like access to how can
Speaker 3: it can be such a make such a major difference.
Speaker 3: And on the converse, I think I've seen it save
Speaker 3: the life of my father in law because he was
Speaker 3: able to get immediate access to the ambulance yea, and
Speaker 3: get immediately served like in the in the hospital and operated.
Speaker 1: On even when we were attual for your hairdresser, she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I have to leave here by this time if I
Speaker 1: don't go, yes, And it's like okay, obviously certain areas
Speaker 1: have more public transport than other areas and we have
Speaker 1: to be cognizant of that, like oh wow, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: we have to get you home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or at least drop you somewhere yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Whereas some people would never think that you just jump
Speaker 1: in your car, but we need to go, or you
Speaker 1: do have public transport, yeah, Like I remember my like
Speaker 1: parent now she's always complaining about how Australia's public transports
Speaker 1: st compared to Europe, where it's like you know, no,
Speaker 1: you don't actually look at you like a lot of time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in Europe Czech Republic, where they're like, oh you
Speaker 3: have a car, like it's actually like not a necessity
Speaker 3: because of that, but like yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you're is this this thing be deep? This?
Speaker 1: I like this one because I think I saw TikTok
Speaker 1: recently talking about it. Okay, beauty and the privilege, pretty yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw TikTok about use your pretty privilege?
Speaker 2: How do you feel about that? Well, I think I
Speaker 2: talked about it.
Speaker 1: We're talking about males female and I said, sometimes I've had.
Speaker 2: To like flatter, flick the hair. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess I've never really had to use it when
Speaker 1: it's in the monst like it's always with males. I
Speaker 1: suppose I've never had to really, I don't think it
Speaker 1: really works with I don't know with other females, women's,
Speaker 1: women's even women I hate us. Yeah we are we
Speaker 1: like you think cute, Yeah exactly, but like with men, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I tap into it.
Speaker 1: Man confession, Yeah, story time, you have to because it's
Speaker 1: like to your disposal, like it's like an arsenal, you know.
Speaker 1: But having said that, it's annoying when you see someone
Speaker 1: else is pretty at yeah, or like it ties in
Speaker 1: or white privilege or blonde bobby girl time.
Speaker 2: There's someone who's more privileged in that. But I think also.
Speaker 3: Beauty privilege could tie into what we're talking about being presentable.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and how you present yourself, how you look
Speaker 3: compared to someone else, can create opportunities for you. Obviously,
Speaker 3: we know you can like pretty privilege. Literally you people
Speaker 3: have careers off that yeah, of course, but people be like,
Speaker 3: she must have slept with you. Yes, But like beyond that,
Speaker 3: I think even just being able to conduct yourself in
Speaker 3: a certain way. Put you can do your makeup, you
Speaker 3: can look clean and put together like that, people are like, Okay,
Speaker 3: you deserve this or treat you this way.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know.
Speaker 1: And then there's like labels as well, even in our dressing.
Speaker 1: And obviously say this as a stylist, but like the
Speaker 1: way we dress, people would judge, h she wears those
Speaker 1: label she must be this person.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like if I come in you're stepping up in a
Speaker 1: chinchilla I mean coat or whatever, y'all will be like
Speaker 1: she's that type.
Speaker 3: Of person, you know, Yes, definitely, And it's like it's
Speaker 3: absolutely a lie. The whole notion of don't judge a
Speaker 3: book by its cover when it comes to people, I
Speaker 3: think we want people to judge for who we are.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, but I.
Speaker 3: On thousand percent think it's not possible, especially a fear
Speaker 3: for certain you.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Why do you think? Though?
Speaker 3: What we talked about, it's like, oh, can I trust you?
Speaker 3: There's an element of like trust and whatever, And I
Speaker 3: think it's a form of an icebreaker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of.
Speaker 3: And I say this not to say that you must
Speaker 3: all be about image and how you do. I say
Speaker 3: this like, set yourself up for success by being a
Speaker 3: bit more cognizant of how you present yourself because then
Speaker 3: you have a little less work to do in terms
Speaker 3: of breaking certain barriers, which is sad, but it's the
Speaker 3: reality the world.
Speaker 1: Isn't it crazy that that's from a Western view as well?
Speaker 1: Like I remember when I was a kid, if my
Speaker 1: mom have addressed in traditional African way, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: we are not yes anyway, looking like yes.
Speaker 2: Then you then get.
Speaker 1: Pride in your own as you grow older, as you
Speaker 1: grow older, like what that's my identity? Like it's okay,
Speaker 1: yeah for sure, you know for sure. So it's such
Speaker 1: a weird thing from whose gays.
Speaker 2: Is this coming from? Okay? Definitely? What do you think
Speaker 2: about age?
Speaker 1: Well, for example, the music industry, the younger you are,
Speaker 1: the more successful you'll be. The music industry is willing
Speaker 1: to put money behind you and say, okay, you're worth funding.
Speaker 2: And if you're older, oh no, one's gonna want to
Speaker 2: buy albums from you.
Speaker 3: Im like houseway, Yeah, like maybe I have more life
Speaker 3: to tell my music.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's such a weird one as well, because
Speaker 1: that one can work both ways because in zim our
Speaker 1: parents did have the privilege that they were born in
Speaker 1: that certain era of you know, the Renaissance of Zim
Speaker 1: black empowerment, and then like there were loans and all
Speaker 1: these things they were given.
Speaker 2: And then now they're like buy a house. You're like
Speaker 2: from what with what money?
Speaker 1: You know, I have the handicap of being born now
Speaker 1: after like financial crisis. So or even if you put
Speaker 1: it in a Western way, like a lot of people
Speaker 1: will say, like my rent is more than what my parents'
Speaker 1: mortgage was, and then they'll be like, oh, buy a house,
Speaker 1: because in the seventies or sixties they could, you know,
Speaker 1: they could for like much less than what we're buying
Speaker 1: houses for now.
Speaker 2: So it's like it works both ways.
Speaker 1: It can be an aging thing, but it'll also be
Speaker 1: like you're lucky you were born in that era where
Speaker 1: you did have Like I think a friend of the podcast, Christine,
Speaker 1: she said to me, were discussing how she was like
Speaker 1: with the first generation, I think that's not going to
Speaker 1: be more successful than materialistic wise than our parents. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it was always like from the fifties the sixties,
Speaker 1: everyone's improving, improving, the moving we got.
Speaker 2: Then the shitty end of the stick to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we by friend and our parents peaked and there
Speaker 1: Now we're not going.
Speaker 3: To suggest Yeah, that's true. I was going to say too.
Speaker 3: In terms of age, I think of my mom at
Speaker 3: the time she got married. She said she it was
Speaker 3: not possible for her to get alone from the bank
Speaker 3: because she was a woman, and like now it's like.
Speaker 2: Who you know things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or like for example, before women couldn't vote and
Speaker 3: now we can vote.
Speaker 1: So there's also that kind of privilege with age and time.
Speaker 1: I guess over time things have changed.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean there's so many types. You can
Speaker 2: sit here all day.
Speaker 1: All day and not at all every but how do
Speaker 1: we acknowledge our own privilege? So you're you're in this space,
Speaker 1: someone's pointed out something to you, Oh that's just because
Speaker 1: you're heterosexual, Well that's because you're whatever. How do you
Speaker 1: acknowledge and move with that with knowing your knowing your
Speaker 1: privilege or maybe giving a space for those without that
Speaker 1: specific place. Yeah, I think it ties into our episode
Speaker 1: on Allyship, which is being just listen and be more
Speaker 1: supportive and don't come with the energy of all lives
Speaker 1: matter we spoke about, don't come with.
Speaker 2: That, you know.
Speaker 3: I think it's also saying it's okay to acknowledge your
Speaker 3: privilege because you're also disadvantaged in some aspects.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we're not all.
Speaker 3: Yes, and it's okay to acknowledge it and maybe try
Speaker 3: to use your privilege for good to help someone, yeah,
Speaker 3: have it a little bit better, and to support someone consideration,
Speaker 3: because I think the world tries to sell us this
Speaker 3: notion of like for me to succeed and someone needs
Speaker 3: to suffer. But I'm like, imagine how progressive the world
Speaker 3: gets if we all uplift each other, Like everyone's life
Speaker 3: can get a little bit better.
Speaker 1: It's okay, it's not going to kill you, and you
Speaker 1: can acknowledge your privilege.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's okay too.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's what you do after you've acknowledged it. That exactly,
Speaker 1: because the acknowledgement is obvious. My guy, like a white male,
Speaker 1: we don't have to be asking you nil you feel
Speaker 1: it or not?
Speaker 2: We know, but like then what And I think it's
Speaker 2: a stigma.
Speaker 3: I guess people feel like because immediately, for example, using
Speaker 3: the Kardashians, who I love to watch.
Speaker 2: My guilty pleasure.
Speaker 3: You know, we were kind of happy to watch them
Speaker 3: when they started off because they were successful but not
Speaker 3: too successful, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now for example, like dealists with people, but
Speaker 1: now I mean people on them about for example, Kim's
Speaker 1: Christmas decorations, like the amount of money they spend and
Speaker 1: all that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: So people typically try to tear.
Speaker 1: Down people who have really visible privilege. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: even even flying private jets trouble for me exactly. So
Speaker 1: I think that's why it's so hard to admit your privilege,
Speaker 1: but then also use your platform like Kim uses it
Speaker 1: for her legal stuff or whatever. Whether or not people
Speaker 1: buy into it, that's that's your whatever. I don't even
Speaker 1: think I buy into it, to be fair, But at
Speaker 1: least she's trying to do something.
Speaker 3: It's better than just being privileged like and actually zooms
Speaker 3: libs are terrible for this. They'll be like, ooh, I'm
Speaker 3: so privileged, I have this, how's it down there something?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, look at what I have. At least she's
Speaker 2: even trying to be like, let me get you out
Speaker 2: of jail.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, definitely, because then you'd hope, in her scenario,
Speaker 1: should have a good team behind.
Speaker 2: So she's the face of that.
Speaker 1: There's people were actually, yeah, properly looking Okay, it's this
Speaker 1: person worthy of exactly zonerating, whereas in the ZIM situations
Speaker 1: like okay, who's this helping you?
Speaker 2: Showing off your boken.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, no, but it's so unrelatable ziom syllibs.
Speaker 2: Do better, do better.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's such a great topic, I think because
Speaker 3: we don't think about it's nice talk about we suffer,
Speaker 3: but it's also good to be like, I also have
Speaker 3: some benefits, and you know, and I think we are
Speaker 3: quite open about our privilege in certain aspects. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I think when we dropped that CLASSESM episode, yeah, people
Speaker 3: were like, okay, these girls are not hiding behind you know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it's sad that the world operates like that, but yeah,
Speaker 3: we have to take a moment to acknowledge that even
Speaker 3: to do this podcasts trying to represent there was a
Speaker 3: privilege to tied to it's financial privilege, travel privilege.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all sorts access access, because.
Speaker 1: That's why we also like always talk about like even
Speaker 1: on YouTube, making sure we always have our episodes up
Speaker 1: on you. Yeah, because we're like, we know it's very
Speaker 1: easily accessible for U Zimbabwe and not everyone can Spotify
Speaker 1: hey having a credit card, so you really like, do
Speaker 1: you even have the app?
Speaker 2: Yes? For a while. Wasn't it bailable in South Africa?
Speaker 3: Remember for a long time actually, so that's why people
Speaker 3: just go with Apple Music yes as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah, we hope you enjoyed this. You know
Speaker 1: us we can dealt forever.
Speaker 3: But yeah, send us your comments, your thoughts are the
Speaker 3: other privileges we didn't even touch on that. We didn't
Speaker 3: maybe hear privilege and we can go on.
Speaker 2: Yeah girl, it's everywhere. But yeah, thanks so much. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so good to have you and me.
Speaker 1: This has been crazy recording with you right across. It's
Speaker 1: so used to it being like a screen, definitely.
Speaker 2: And now she's heavy, here's pinched me moments.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening and we'll catch you on the
Speaker 1: next episode. Bye guys. To t