1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Bungelung Cargoton woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ours. It's Thursday, 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: the nineteenth of January. 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Sam. 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: The UK government has announced it will block a Scottish 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 2: law designed to make it easier for people to legally 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: change their gender. The mover's angered transgender rights activists. 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 4: They're lying when they say it's about anything other than transphobia. 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: But also some in the Scottish Parliament, with First Minister 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: Nicolas Sturgeon calling it a full frontal attack. 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 5: If the UK government is able to normalize action to 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 5: block legislation the mechastically passed by the Scottish Parliament, we 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 5: will be on a very very slippery slop. 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,279 Speaker 2: So what does this all mean and what will happen 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: next in the UK. We're going to let you know 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: in the deep dive, but first the headlines. 22 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 3: Opposition leader Peter Dunnan has issued a fresh challenge to 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 3: Prime Minister Anthony Aberzi to release further details on a 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 3: proposed voice to Parliament. This all came after Alberenzi told 25 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: the ABC that the details of the voice would be 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,639 Speaker 3: the subject of legislation and could be changed over time. 27 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: The Bureau of Meteorology BOMB has forecast Australia's Learnina weather 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: event will end by February. The BOMB said that Leninna 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: had weakened from its peak in the spring of twenty 30 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: twenty two and now expects that ocean temperatures will enter 31 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: neutral levels by next month. 32 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 3: New South Wales Health has issued a public health alert 33 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 3: and mid rising cases of gastro throughout the state. The 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 3: latest health data found that rotavirus, a common cause of gastro, 35 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: is at some of its highest levels in ten years. 36 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 3: Recent hospitalizations from gastro symptoms are particularly high in children. 37 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: And the good news fires I will offer its full 38 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: portfolio of medicines and vaccines on a not for profit 39 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: basis to over a billion people living in forty five 40 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: lower income countries. It's a scale up of an initiative 41 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 2: that was launched in May last year to address global 42 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: health inequities. On the twenty third of December, Sam, one 43 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 2: of the last pieces you and I were looking at 44 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: before we went to the Christmas break was this news 45 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 2: from Scotland, and it was that the Scottish Parliament had 46 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: passed some landmark legislation, the Gender Recognition Reform Bill. 47 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 5: The Gender Recognition Reform Scotland Bill is. 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: Passed Scotland's First Minister, Nicholas Sturgeon. And when I refer 49 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 2: to a first minister, just think of it like a 50 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: prime minister. She called it an historic day for equality 51 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: and said that the legislation was aiming to make it 52 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: easier for transgender people to legally change their gender. 53 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you all. 54 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 5: We will continue with business, thank you. 55 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 4: The next day we will suspend business. 56 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: But as it turns out, the Heckler's yelling in Parliament 57 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: that day were just the beginning of conflict over this legislation. 58 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: The UK Government has since come out and said it 59 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: will block the law, and that's because it believes that 60 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: this law conflicts with existing UK equality laws. 61 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: Before we go any further discussing this legislation, can you 62 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 3: just run me through why the UK has kind of 63 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 3: say in Scottish laws in the first place. 64 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, fair to say, I was a bit rusty on 65 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: my UK politics understanding. So here's a crash course if 66 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: you're like me. The UK is made up of four nations, England, Wales, 67 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: Northern Ireland and Scotland. The UK Government governs all four 68 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: of those nations and that is led by Prime Minister 69 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: Rishisunak and operates out of the Palace of Westminster in London. 70 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: Then Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland also have their own parliaments. 71 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: Alongside that, those parliaments have limited powers given to them 72 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 2: by the UK Government. It's not often that the UK 73 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 2: government interferes with decisions by those parliaments. And notably, this 74 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: is actually the first time that the UK Government has 75 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 2: ever blocked a Scottish law for the reason that they gave, 76 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: which was that it was conflicting with existing UK laws. 77 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 3: So that really goes to how significant this decision was. 78 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: What was it about this particular law that prompted that. 79 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: Okay, to understand that, I think we need to just 80 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: start with what this legislation was actually doing. So what 81 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: a boils down to was that this piece of legislation 82 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 2: was trying to make it easier for people to legally 83 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: change their gender and to remove some of the barriers 84 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: that transgender people would face in doing so in Scotland. 85 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 2: In order to change your legal gender in Scotland up 86 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: until now, so before this legislation passed, you needed to 87 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 2: have a medical diagnosis of what's called gender dysphoria. What 88 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 2: this law did was remove that requirement, and alongside that 89 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: it also changed the period of time that you needed 90 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 2: to have lived as that gender from two years down 91 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 2: to three months, so a fairly big difference there. The 92 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 2: legislation also lowered the minimum age of application to change 93 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: your gender from eighteen down to sixteen, but it's important 94 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 2: to note that anyone under eighteen must have lived as 95 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: their acquired gender for six months rather than that three 96 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: months for everyone else. 97 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: Right, And what was the reason the UK government gave 98 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 3: for blocking that law? 99 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: So it was actually the UK Government's Scottish secretary his 100 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 2: name is Alistair Jack, who announced the decision on behalf 101 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: of the un UK government and fair to say it 102 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 2: was monumental. He said he was concerned that Scotland's law 103 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: would have an adverse impact on UK wide equality laws, 104 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 2: so laws that apply to all four of the nations, 105 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: not just Scotland. He said that he'd written a letter 106 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: to the Scottish First Minister to tell her about the decision, 107 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: and we've now seen a full policy statement from the 108 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: UK Government explaining their decision and their position. So essentially 109 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: what it boils down to is that the UK Government 110 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 2: is concerned about a citizen of the UK having a 111 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: different gender of course, in the eyes of the law 112 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: in different nations within the UK. The UK Government says 113 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 2: that this will result in a lack of clarity about 114 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 2: someone's gender status in contexts like single sex clubs, single 115 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: sex schools, or even in the context of equal pay claims. 116 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: Earlier in the week, Alistair Jack spoke to the BBC 117 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: and said that the law was also being blocked to protect. 118 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 6: Women's protecting and safeguarding safe spaces for women and children. 119 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 6: But the legal advice we have has said that we 120 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 6: need to stop the legislation, go back and talk to 121 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 6: the Scottish government about how that the legislation can be amended. 122 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 6: If that will be difficult for them, I understand, but 123 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 6: be amended to fall into line with legislation across the 124 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 6: United Kingdom that protects, as I say, safe spaces for 125 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 6: women and children. 126 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: This really is a complicated issue, and I think it 127 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: takes on a whole new layer when you think about 128 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 3: the real implications it has on people's lives as well 129 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 3: as those political implications we're talking about exactly. 130 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: There is a very human element to this all and 131 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: there's been an outcry from trans communities in the UK. 132 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: These were some of the voices that we heard at 133 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: a protest in London. 134 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 4: They're lying when they say it's about anything other than transphobia. 135 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 4: You don't show your birth certificate to go into a toilet, 136 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 4: you don't show your birth certificate to go into a 137 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 4: changing room. Life works on self ID, it has done forever. 138 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 4: Yet this government want to suddenly go or actually let's create, 139 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 4: you know, a panic. The UK government is so committed 140 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 4: to not letting transwrites improve within the UK that they 141 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 4: are willing to damage their reputation and their relationship with 142 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 4: Scotland to do it. 143 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: If we then turn to look at this on a 144 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: political level, it's also really significant. The Scottish First Minister, 145 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: Nicholas Sturgeon tweeted and I quote. This is a full 146 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: frontal attack on our democratically elected Scottish Parliament and its 147 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: ability to make its own decisions on devolved matters. At 148 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: a press conference earlier this week, she called the move political. 149 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 5: At using trans people, already one of the most vulnerable 150 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 5: stigmatized goops in our society as a political weapon and 151 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 5: I think that will be unconscionable and indefensible and really 152 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 5: quite disgraceful. 153 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: She also said that the issue goes to the heart 154 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 2: of Scotland's democracy. 155 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 5: If the UK government is able to normalize action to 156 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 5: block legislation democratically passed by the Scottish Parliament with thein 157 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 5: no areas of competence on this issue, then that will 158 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 5: embolden them to look to do on other issues and 159 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 5: we will be on a very very slippery sloop. 160 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 3: So it's clear there's really two major tracks to look 161 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 3: at here. One is the context of trans rites, but 162 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 3: it sounds like it's also raising some serious questions about 163 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 3: Scotland's ability to pass its own laws. 164 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and so I think it's interesting to 165 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: look at this decision and what it will mean in 166 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: the context of the growing push for Scottish independence. So 167 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: if you're not familiar with this, there was a referendum 168 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: for Scottish independence in twenty fourteen, but that failed. First 169 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: Minister Sturgeon has since been pushing for a fresh vote, 170 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 2: arguing that the UK government doesn't command the support of 171 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: the people in Scotland. One of the arguments that she 172 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 2: and other advocates for independence have made is that Scottish 173 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: people strongly supported staying in the EU, and of course 174 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 2: we know that's not what happened when Brexit occurred, and 175 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 2: that she claims that this happened against Scotland voter's wishes. 176 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: But there has been a new obstacle put in the 177 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: past to independence. In November of last year, the UK 178 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: Supreme Court ruled that Scotland, if they wanted to hold 179 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: a referendum on independence, needed the consent of the UK Parliament. 180 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: It's likely that this latest decision out of the UK, 181 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: the one to block Scottish legislation for the first time, 182 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 2: will really embolden those advocates and their efforts to push 183 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: for independence. 184 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 3: We're going to take a short break, we'll be right back. 185 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 3: I want to round out this conversation by coming back 186 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 3: to that gender bill. What is likely to happen from 187 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 3: here well. 188 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 2: The Scottish government plans to launch a legal challenge to 189 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: the decision, and First Minister Sturgeon has said they'll do 190 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: so to defend British democracy. This challenge is likely to 191 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: focus on whether there are actually reasonable grounds for the 192 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: UK to have vetoed this bill under what's call Section 193 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 2: thirty five, and that's the thing that they're using to 194 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 2: justify this decision, and that means assessing the justification that 195 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: was made by Scottish Secretary Alistair Jack that the Gender 196 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: Recognition Bill, this Scottish bill would impact the operation of 197 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: the Equalities Act. 198 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: In the UK. 199 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: That legal bid hasn't been launched yet, so it'll be 200 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 2: interesting to see what happens here and how it plays 201 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: out on a broader political scale. 202 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 3: We'll definitely keep an eye on both the gender Bill 203 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 3: but also that move towards Scottish independence, two issues that 204 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 3: I think we'll see again in the news cycle for 205 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 3: the rest of the year. Thanks for joining us today 206 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: on the Daily OS. If you learn something from today's episode, 207 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 3: don't forget to hit subscribe and whatever app you're in 208 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 3: so there's a TVA episode waiting for you When you 209 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 3: wake up in the morning. We'll be back again tomorrow. 210 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 3: Until then, have a great day.