Speaker 1: On a cold night in twoenty and eleven, in a
Speaker 1: modest Missouri home, lay the body a Betsy Faria, a
Speaker 1: loyal wife, devoted mother, and lover of life itself. She
Speaker 1: had been stabbed more than fifty times, later determined as
Speaker 1: fifty six. Many of these wounds inflicted post mortem a
Speaker 1: frenzied violent attack. All signs pointed to her husband, Russ,
Speaker 1: who was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison.
Speaker 2: We've given away the ending, or but you the true.
Speaker 1: Story wouldn't be uncovered for years after this. The story
Speaker 1: is in fact stranger than fiction. This is the case
Speaker 1: a Betsy Foraria.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, just go.
Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody, welcome to not Another crime podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Georgia Lowe.
Speaker 1: I'm Sammy Peterson.
Speaker 2: I'm a journalist.
Speaker 1: I am not. But I'll tell you what if you
Speaker 1: want to skip ahead and just listen to the story,
Speaker 1: the time code is below in the show notes. Gee, love,
Speaker 1: how the heck are you?
Speaker 2: I am good?
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, your new new season of your podcast, Everyone
Speaker 1: has an X launch Today podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Yes. The day of recording this
Speaker 2: episode one of season eight of Everyone Has an X
Speaker 2: is out. Yeah, so it's all happening the next ten weeks.
Speaker 1: So good. It's a great first episode.
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks to you much.
Speaker 1: I loved it so good. Yeah, so interesting. I love that,
Speaker 1: really really good story. It doesn't go in a way
Speaker 1: that you expect, that's right.
Speaker 2: We like a twist, so yeah. I mean, I've banged
Speaker 2: on about it on here before, but if anyone hasn't
Speaker 2: heard or wants to just hear it again. It's a
Speaker 2: documentary style podcast, so every episode is a standalone story
Speaker 2: where it is somebody telling their story about an X.
Speaker 2: So sometimes they have stories about the breakup, about who
Speaker 2: the X is, or has become traumatic thing that happened,
Speaker 2: a funny thing that happened, anything involving an egg, and
Speaker 2: I narrate little bits throughout.
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's like a proper documentary. It's so good,
Speaker 1: very well, very well done, and highly recommend it. And
Speaker 1: I'll say right now as well. A new episode of
Speaker 1: my other podcast, Confessions, which has come back is every
Speaker 1: month it's come out with Christi Will and Brown and
Speaker 1: Emily Tanya on this podcast. I see on this podcast
Speaker 1: before it was Genevieve Morrison, Christi Will and Brown. I lied,
Speaker 1: I told a fibb. Genevieve pulled out and guess who's
Speaker 1: nice one. Emily Tiny swooped in for the cher's one
Speaker 1: of the funniest people.
Speaker 2: It is such a great episode.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, it's just that it's fun. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's parenting.
Speaker 2: Boys will be boys.
Speaker 1: We'll be boys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that episode. Christy and Emily together are so funny.
Speaker 1: So funny, so I love they're so good together. I'm
Speaker 1: recording another one this weekend with a great Gareth Reynolds,
Speaker 1: which will be lots of fun over over on the lines.
Speaker 1: I don't know how he's saying it, but zoom dot
Speaker 1: com or something with that intwebs and during the Melbourne
Speaker 1: International Comedy Festival, if you're around, I'm doing two live shows,
Speaker 1: one with Christopher Hall, Reuben Kate and Nick Cody and
Speaker 1: the other one Myth Warhurst, Joel Creasy and Will Anderson.
Speaker 1: Stop fun. Is that what line? Republic? Incredible stuff.
Speaker 2: You've got some good friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll tell you what. Thank you everyone for
Speaker 1: all the wonderful comments about my back this week. I've
Speaker 1: had so many lovely people checking in about my back.
Speaker 1: I've only had to cancel like two gigs but I
Speaker 1: have canceled two gigs because of my back, and it's
Speaker 1: been kind of an interesting time because I've been fascinated
Speaker 1: by Jim Carey's face. So I've been I've had said yea,
Speaker 1: I have had we I'm going to talk about this,
Speaker 1: but I have had so much time just looking at
Speaker 1: a photo of Jim Carrey's face and comparing photos, which means,
Speaker 1: you know, in the New Age, you have to have
Speaker 1: one phone and one iPad or two phones to double check.
Speaker 1: It's the only way. But I've been so obsessed with
Speaker 1: Jim Carrey's face. I think it's just Jim Carey. But
Speaker 1: I love all of the internet slew thing. I love
Speaker 1: people going is it a So first it was a
Speaker 1: is it an impersonator? That was one thing because I
Speaker 1: was like, well, Jim Carrey's kind of retired, why would
Speaker 1: he go to an award ceremony? Is it Jim Carrey,
Speaker 1: Jim Carrey. I don't know, is it carry? Yeah? But
Speaker 1: I just found because some people say Jim Carrey, Jim Carrey.
Speaker 2: It might be you know, like an American.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the Grinch.
Speaker 2: And the mask and.
Speaker 1: I'm not green thing, but I am. I've always been
Speaker 1: a big fan of Jim Carrey, and he's had a
Speaker 1: time away from the spotlight, and it is so funny
Speaker 1: to watch people. There's been like people has a mask
Speaker 1: been made?
Speaker 2: A drag queen came out and said that was me
Speaker 2: in costume. And this drag queen has done like full
Speaker 2: blown like impersonator stuff before where like they've looked like
Speaker 2: completely looked like someone else. But that has been dispelled, Yes,
Speaker 2: I believe.
Speaker 1: And the thing about Jim Carrey is as well as
Speaker 1: Jim Curry or whatever the Grench is that John Jim Currah.
Speaker 1: The thing about John Currah he always has been a
Speaker 1: bit outside the box, see in his thinking and everything.
Speaker 1: And there's a film called Man on the Moon, which
Speaker 1: I think is his best film. He is so good
Speaker 1: in it. And in the film he plays an old
Speaker 1: comedian it's a true story and Hoffman but in the
Speaker 1: film he went kind of mad becoming the character and
Speaker 1: just became Andy Kaufman for a long time. And and
Speaker 1: so Andy Kaufman played a character called Tony Clifton. And
Speaker 1: so Jim Carey once went to the he was invited
Speaker 1: to go to the what is it, the Playboy bunny
Speaker 1: House or something pictures. I don't need to look at
Speaker 1: pictures real quick, but you know, so he was invited
Speaker 1: to go there, but he dressed up as Tony Clifton
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh my god, So Jim Carey is
Speaker 1: really quirking everything. Paul Gi Maddy actually dressed up as that,
Speaker 1: pretending to be Jim Carrey playing Tony. So he has
Speaker 1: had so many different moments where you go, is that real?
Speaker 1: Isn't that real? And there's a great documentary on that
Speaker 1: whole experience. I think it's called Man on the Moon
Speaker 1: and it is incredible. It's by Spike Jones and it's
Speaker 1: just an amazing documentary to look into what became of
Speaker 1: him at that time becoming that character. It's fascinating and
Speaker 1: you get in that in that perspective, you go, oh,
Speaker 1: I think Jim Carey has gone a bit kind of
Speaker 1: loopy and over time and everything, there's been a lot
Speaker 1: going on. We could probably do a true crime episode
Speaker 1: about Jim Garrey, but there's been a lot. There's been
Speaker 1: a lot of things happen. So I am really fascinated
Speaker 1: with this story.
Speaker 2: If he's kind of done it on purpose to people, Well,
Speaker 2: when I first heard people saying, Oh, it's not him,
Speaker 2: it's impersonator, it's a clone or something. I was like,
Speaker 2: he's just had work and like we just don't see
Speaker 2: much anymore. The two things I find strangers that his
Speaker 2: eye color is completely different, yes, yep.
Speaker 1: And piercing brown eyes.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, piercing brown as they say, as the old
Speaker 2: brown eye, your brown eye.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, looking in.
Speaker 2: Your big brown Ah. That's yucky. Sorry if you think
Speaker 2: about it like that. And the way he's speaking is
Speaker 2: very kind of over the top Jim Carey, yes, which
Speaker 2: can feel like it's someone impersonating him, but yeah, I
Speaker 2: wonder if that's him, do it as almost alrighty?
Speaker 1: Then it's a lot of like yeah. And there's a
Speaker 1: really funny woman on on TikTok that looks like Jim
Speaker 1: Carrey and she is so funny about it and leans
Speaker 1: into that, leans into it so much. It's so funny
Speaker 1: to find out what her name is, and I'll try
Speaker 1: and find it because it's so so funny. But I
Speaker 1: would also like to say, apart from all the Jim
Speaker 1: Carey stuff, at a very funny moment that happened at
Speaker 1: work today, yes, where I've had a really busy week
Speaker 1: at work means working a lot of late nights and everything.
Speaker 1: And I have found that, you know, when you write
Speaker 1: something and you go, oh shit, like I need to
Speaker 1: take it is to be forty words and it's it's
Speaker 1: one hundred words or something. There's a great thing on
Speaker 1: Microsoft Teams. On Microsoft Teams it's called co pilot.
Speaker 2: Is this bonds. I have to say non non spon.
Speaker 1: Con And all you have to do is you type
Speaker 1: in rewrite this to forty words, right, That's all you
Speaker 1: have to write. Right. So I was doing this and
Speaker 1: I was going, oh shit, okay, rewrite that to four words, right,
Speaker 1: And I was just doing it all day. Is like
Speaker 1: filling out all this stuff, going ok shit, I've got
Speaker 1: to do that. I got to do that. To do that,
Speaker 1: co pilot looks quite similar to teams. So I messaged
Speaker 1: one of the directors of the companies and wrote, rewrite
Speaker 1: this and then pasted this stuff. He sent it back.
Speaker 1: Stop he rewrote.
Speaker 2: It and it's not even like, hey, so and so,
Speaker 2: could you please do you have time to rewrite this?
Speaker 1: Oh my god to one of the directors of the
Speaker 1: company and he goes, hey, Sammy, of course, and he
Speaker 1: wrote it back and he sent it to me. That's
Speaker 1: some big rewrite this, that's what I don't have anything
Speaker 1: better to do.
Speaker 2: Some BD from you.
Speaker 1: It was very good and it's like you've just.
Speaker 2: Said, you've just made it to rewrite that Is that
Speaker 2: going to change the way you.
Speaker 1: I'm wide yes, everyone, because you're always very story this
Speaker 1: year take them on the store this week.
Speaker 2: This year, I'll do all the stories.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, forty words and forty words or less. Please.
Speaker 1: That was a fun little thing that happened this week. Powerful.
Speaker 1: I did feel very power, felt very beautiful as well.
Speaker 2: You look beautiful as well, so I'm glad you feel it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel that.
Speaker 2: Is it that detail you have on your mirror that says, girl,
Speaker 2: you look amazing?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, And it's got the clicks that automate. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's well just click click.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I have tried to find a door bell that does
Speaker 2: the hell oh yeah perform. It doesn't seem to exist
Speaker 2: on the interweb, which I find strange. So if anyone
Speaker 2: has found one who knows how to invent them, please.
Speaker 1: Let me know. Yeah. Has your week been You've been good?
Speaker 2: Yes, it has been good. It's been a big week
Speaker 2: in the media.
Speaker 1: World in Australia.
Speaker 2: We did just talk about that.
Speaker 1: In Melbourne recently. Jim Carrey got mistake.
Speaker 2: No, I you know, I work in radio and.
Speaker 1: The if.
Speaker 2: You well, I think they're no. Yeah, if you're start
Speaker 2: interrupting me.
Speaker 4: The biggest media deal ever made in Australia was to
Speaker 4: a radio duo called Kyle and JACKIEO who have been
Speaker 4: working together as a radio duo for twenty.
Speaker 2: Seven years, a long time, and two years ago they
Speaker 2: signed a reported two hundred million dollar ten year contracts,
Speaker 2: so ten million dollars each every year for ten years.
Speaker 2: Well that's all gone to shit because they've had.
Speaker 1: It just wild after twenty seven years wild.
Speaker 2: They've don't need to go into the details here, you
Speaker 2: can google it if you want, but they had they've
Speaker 2: had a falling out and the show has split and
Speaker 2: right now in the middle of kind of working out
Speaker 2: what they do if either of them or both of
Speaker 2: them stay at the network or but they're not a
Speaker 2: duo any longer. So I thought our dear listeners could
Speaker 2: help us tissue great idea for Georgia and Sammy in
Speaker 2: the mornings.
Speaker 1: In the morning. Yeah, I think they should be the
Speaker 1: new Wrecky duo is great. I can say some shocking
Speaker 1: things and you can go you can't say that.
Speaker 2: Yes, yet, very similar to what they have done for
Speaker 2: twenty seven years. That's good and you are a real.
Speaker 1: Shock job shock and I love to shock whatever that
Speaker 1: That sounds a bit like I'm sure about that food.
Speaker 1: Yeah that is interesting, Okay, Yeah, I'm fascinated by that,
Speaker 1: and I want to know all the details as they unfurl,
Speaker 1: because we have had they've just been around for so long. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you will never expect.
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety nine they first started.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who are you know? Alleged like that? The show
Speaker 1: is quite it can be quite vile and everything it
Speaker 1: can be. It is very shocking. So it is really
Speaker 1: interesting after twenty seven years to have a fallout. I
Speaker 1: think that is fascinating. So we will do it, and
Speaker 1: we will do it for one hundred million dollars for
Speaker 1: exactly slashing the price.
Speaker 2: Literally half price.
Speaker 1: That is a good five million year each. Yes, Oh,
Speaker 1: by dig something nice. Don't worry about that. You get
Speaker 1: another big bed.
Speaker 2: Another big bed.
Speaker 1: I don't mind.
Speaker 2: I had, you know, like Facebook, you get like timu
Speaker 2: ads and something it thinks you want to buy it
Speaker 2: came up with a huge, huge, huge, big, like like
Speaker 2: the dog bed you've got for Dick, but bigger and
Speaker 2: with one half of it is like a sleeping bag,
Speaker 2: so the human can sleep in the sleeping bag and
Speaker 2: coddle the dog in the bed together.
Speaker 1: See if I if I had five million a year,
Speaker 1: there'd be signs and that would be that would be me.
Speaker 1: I don't have my own bed anymore. I sleep with
Speaker 1: digs from him with your five million signed the check
Speaker 1: and I go, I'll be on. I don't worry about me. HeiG,
Speaker 1: are you ready for the story this? I am.
Speaker 2: You're doing another one.
Speaker 1: For one for you, But I want to say, real
Speaker 1: damn quick, if you could share this podcast with a friend,
Speaker 1: that would help us so bloody much. What'll we do
Speaker 1: on the mail bag at the end where you can
Speaker 1: write to us? Yes, Sammy at just Another company dot
Speaker 1: com dot au. If you're a write to us.
Speaker 2: You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Not
Speaker 2: Another Crime Podcast. You can watch our episodes on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Hey follow us there as well. Not Another Crime Podcast,
Speaker 2: And please do follow us on your favorite podcast app,
Speaker 2: and please leave a five star rating, and please leave
Speaker 2: a lovely review and what pleased to as your friend?
Speaker 1: And you know what, girlfriend? You can also send us
Speaker 1: a voicemail that is called a speak live and the
Speaker 1: link is below. Everything you need is in the show
Speaker 1: notes and more and more. Maybe there's a Jim Carey
Speaker 1: look alike. That's a woman in there. Now. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't look into the future like that I can,
Speaker 1: and what's there? I refuse to tell you, oh my god,
Speaker 1: because you know I probably didn't do it when I edited. Hey,
Speaker 1: everybody enjoy this, well you want to enjoy it, but
Speaker 1: it is an very interesting case this week.
Speaker 2: Yes, and the experience.
Speaker 1: And if you don't already know this episode, it is
Speaker 1: the story. Oh well, yeah, if you don't already know
Speaker 1: this story, it is a bloody doo.
Speaker 2: A bloody do, a bloody enjoy.
Speaker 1: Sometimes reality doesn't just imitate fiction, it outshines it, twisting
Speaker 1: in ways that no novelist could invent. The story of
Speaker 1: Betsy Faria begins in such a place, a quiet Midwestern
Speaker 1: town where neighbors wave polightly across the white picket fences,
Speaker 1: where life moves slowly, measured by the rhythm of work,
Speaker 1: church and family dinners. But Beneath that serene surface, a
Speaker 1: mystery was brewing, one that would confound investigators, divide a community,
Speaker 1: and read like something stranger than fiction. A woman, devoted
Speaker 1: mother and nurse would vanish not into the wilderness, but
Speaker 1: into the shadows of a world she thought she knew,
Speaker 1: a world where betrayal, suspicion, and secrets lay quietly waiting
Speaker 1: to surface. It was a case that proved the truth
Speaker 1: can be more shocking than any story you've ever read,
Speaker 1: because in the end, reality doesn't play by the rules
Speaker 1: of storytelling. Stranger than fiction describes events or situations so odd, unlikely,
Speaker 1: or astonishing that they seem more plausible in an invented
Speaker 1: story than in real life.
Speaker 2: But sometimes fiction is also strained, like Stuart Little, because
Speaker 2: if you think about that a small mouse being in
Speaker 2: a human orphanage and being chosen to be adopted by
Speaker 2: human parents in the stead.
Speaker 1: O, that's also an odd story.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying, is this one weirder than that?
Speaker 1: Weirder than that?
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll see.
Speaker 1: It implies that reality has produced coincidences, ironies, or occurrences
Speaker 1: that exceeded the inventiveness or believability of fiction, often heightening
Speaker 1: the unexpected, surreal or paradoxical nature of actual experience. For
Speaker 1: police investigating this crime, it seemed like a perfectly open
Speaker 1: and shutcase, and you'd hardly blame them for thinking that.
Speaker 1: Not surprisingly, a frenzied crime is committed by someone the
Speaker 1: victim knows, someone that is trusted. On a call December
Speaker 1: night in twenty eleven, the front door of this modest,
Speaker 1: Missouri home stood unlocked. Inside, Christmas decoration still glowed softly,
Speaker 1: as if waiting for a family that would never return.
Speaker 1: In the living room, Betsy Frea, a devoted mother, a
Speaker 1: beloved friend, a woman fighting cancer with quiet determination. She
Speaker 1: had been stabbed more than fifty six times. At the
Speaker 1: time the coroner was examining her. He actually stopped counting,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this was excessive violence.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They always say it's like kind of a robbery gone
Speaker 2: wrong or something, So never like that, because these frenzies
Speaker 2: and attacks come from like passion.
Speaker 1: Passion, Yeah, and it drives them. They're obviously thinking about it,
Speaker 1: or it's just an outburst or something. Now, there was
Speaker 1: no sign of forced entry, no robbery, no obvious motive
Speaker 1: that made sense. Sounds like the husband, Yeah, exactly, Within hours,
Speaker 1: police zeroed in on the person who should have been
Speaker 1: grieving her most, her husband, Russ. The story seems simple,
Speaker 1: too simple. Russ Freer was convicted and sentenced to life
Speaker 1: in prison.
Speaker 2: I mean, were there any are you going to go
Speaker 2: into it? They're like what they said the mitigating factors were?
Speaker 1: Or well yeah they out there? Yeah? Sorry? The case
Speaker 1: was declared closed. But did the wrong person go away
Speaker 1: for the crime. Betsy Freer's story was far from over,
Speaker 1: because years later, as cracks began to appear in the conviction,
Speaker 1: investigators would uncover a trail of life manipulation and another
Speaker 1: dead body, Oh my god, one that suggested Betsy's murder
Speaker 1: was not a tragic crime of passion, but the first
Speaker 1: move in something far darker. And the question everyone would
Speaker 1: soon be asking was not who killed Betsy Farrier? But
Speaker 1: how many lives have been destroyed before the truth finally surfaced?
Speaker 1: G have you heard this case before?
Speaker 2: I don't think so well.
Speaker 1: I I a friend of the pot and Lovely listener.
Speaker 1: Ash told me about this one and I have been
Speaker 1: hooked by it. There is a TV show where in
Speaker 1: asl Wiga plays a hip part in this Okay, yes, absolutely, fascinating.
Speaker 2: That's all I've heard about, like I know that she
Speaker 2: did a like a dramatized version of the story.
Speaker 1: Betsy Freer was born on March twenty fourth, nineteen sixty nine,
Speaker 1: and from the beginning, she was kind of the person
Speaker 1: who made you feel like you mad it. She had
Speaker 1: the ability to make you feel like you were the
Speaker 1: only person in their world, kind of like Diggs right now,
Speaker 1: really cuddling. Oh shit, are you okay?
Speaker 2: Now? If you keep that in, I do apologize to
Speaker 2: the listener for screaming the F word into the microphone.
Speaker 2: Dis is having a very cute cuddle and whacked his
Speaker 2: hand up into my glass of red wine. And that, Sammy,
Speaker 2: is why we should always be drinking jam.
Speaker 1: That's right, correct. So we're talking about Betsy Afrea. So
Speaker 1: from the beginning, she was the kind of person who
Speaker 1: made you feel like you mad it. She had the
Speaker 1: ability to make you feel like you were the only
Speaker 1: person in their world and leave the room brighter than
Speaker 1: it was before.
Speaker 2: How beautiful.
Speaker 1: She was the absolute party starter, showing up to every
Speaker 1: single celebration and would often be the person organizing the event.
Speaker 1: Her laugh was loud and her humor was quick, Betsy
Speaker 1: never met a stranger in her life. Betsy lived with
Speaker 1: her husband Russ in Troy, Missouri, Troy, Troy, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: her two teenage daughters, Leah and Maria from a previous marriage.
Speaker 1: Life was simple and it was full by the day.
Speaker 1: Betsy worked at a local gas station. The hours were
Speaker 1: flexible and she liked getting to know people, so she
Speaker 1: kind of loved it just talking to people day to day.
Speaker 1: Her real passion though, was music. Oh she had her
Speaker 1: own DJ business called party Starters. Betsy didn't care what
Speaker 1: kind of event it was, a birthday of backyard barbecue.
Speaker 1: She would always bring the energy. It was kind of
Speaker 1: how she connected with people through music. Betsy met Russ
Speaker 1: at a gas station where he was a regular, and
Speaker 1: in true Betsy form, she didn't wait for Russ to
Speaker 1: ask her out. She wasted no time and instead asked him.
Speaker 2: Out, Queen.
Speaker 1: They just clicked the first state was it a casino.
Speaker 1: Russ was a quiet guy who kept to himself and
Speaker 1: loved the tech side of things. Instead, he'd help Betsy
Speaker 1: with her playlists and running the party Starters. Betsy was
Speaker 1: the one who remembered birthdays, planned surprises, and showed up
Speaker 1: when it mattered. When Betsy was diagnosed with breast cancer
Speaker 1: in twenty ten, she stayed that way completely. She didn't
Speaker 1: want to be treated any differently and didn't want to
Speaker 1: be seen as the victim. She organized fundraisers for others,
Speaker 1: attended all important events, and supported other families, and continued
Speaker 1: to fight for her life because it was worth living.
Speaker 1: But then in October twenty eleven, she got the worst news.
Speaker 1: The cancer had spread to her liver and it was
Speaker 1: now terminal. But even then Betsy didn't stop. She was
Speaker 1: strong and unstoppable. Friends helped her get to chemo appointments,
Speaker 1: with Betsy planning for the future, making holiday plans, seeing friends,
Speaker 1: and making sure she was making the most of the
Speaker 1: time that she had left. She was, after all, the
Speaker 1: party starter. On December twenty seventh, twenty eleven, Betsy had
Speaker 1: another round of chemo. Her appointment began just after one pm.
Speaker 1: The treatments were really starting to wear on her. She
Speaker 1: was getting weaker and thinner, but it never stopped Betsy.
Speaker 1: On the way home, she actually stopped at her mother's
Speaker 1: health a house that's fun for me house. She stayed
Speaker 1: for a few hours, catching up and keeping things light.
Speaker 1: She was in really good spirits that day, talking about
Speaker 1: an upcoming girls trip and New Year's plans. Russ had
Speaker 1: planned to pick her up and drive her home to Troy. However,
Speaker 1: one of Betsy's former co workers, Pam Hup, insisted on
Speaker 1: taking her home instead. Betsy's friend Bobby Junxt had offered
Speaker 1: her a ride, but Pam insisted that she take her instead.
Speaker 1: Pam and Betsy left at around five pm, making a
Speaker 1: walk in the park on the way. Pam then dropped
Speaker 1: Betsy at home sometime around seven pm and left shortly
Speaker 1: after seven twenty one pm. Betsy's daughter Leah called her,
Speaker 1: but it rang out. Betsy very rarely ignored her daughter,
Speaker 1: so Leah was immediately worried. Russ had been out for
Speaker 1: most of the evening. He had left work at five
Speaker 1: pm to go to his friend Mike Corbyn's place, where
Speaker 1: he spent time with Mike and two other friends playing
Speaker 1: board games, watching a couple of films, including Catch Me
Speaker 1: If You Can.
Speaker 2: What a cool boarder?
Speaker 1: Nice just just sitting back playing board games.
Speaker 2: We should bring back board game nights.
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah. Your friend Bam always tries to bring out
Speaker 1: a board game anywhere we are.
Speaker 2: No, not a board game. She brings out these like
Speaker 2: weird question games like cards and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, An ordered pizza, right, So Russ left around nine pm,
Speaker 1: stopped at Arby's, where the receipt was timestamped at nine
Speaker 1: h nine pm. When he arrived home at around nine
Speaker 1: forty pm, something felt really off. The lights were off,
Speaker 1: the front door was unlocked, and everything was eerily quiet.
Speaker 1: When he walked into the house, the worst fears were confirmed.
Speaker 1: There was Betsy lying dead on.
Speaker 2: The living Yeah, oh god, how awful.
Speaker 1: He thought. He kind of thought at first she must
Speaker 1: have fallen, but there was blood everywhere, smeared along the
Speaker 1: walls and all over the carpet. A knife was still
Speaker 1: in her neck. Oh god. Her arms and wrists were
Speaker 1: covered in defensive wounds. Russ called nine one one, his
Speaker 1: voice trembling. He was sobbing and gasping, stumbling over his words.
Speaker 1: At one point in the nine one one call, he
Speaker 1: stated that he thought that Betsy might have actually killed herself,
Speaker 1: which would later be scrutinized. That was an odd thing
Speaker 1: to bring up straight away with that many worms that.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, devil's adver could hear? I don't think
Speaker 2: that you would like look really deeply at the body
Speaker 2: of her.
Speaker 1: Feel like you've been in such a days as well
Speaker 1: of coming home and seeing your loved one like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, a knife in the neck is yeah.
Speaker 1: They're not common, No, I wouldn't think. Yeah. When first
Speaker 1: responders arrived just before ten pm, they walked into the
Speaker 1: scene of staggering violence. Officer Christiopher Hollingsworth was one of
Speaker 1: the first on the scene. I think it's a great name,
Speaker 1: isn't it. Betsy's body was near the couch. Her limbs
Speaker 1: were twisted in unnatural ways, covered in blood. Oh dear,
Speaker 1: she had been stabbed what they thought at the time
Speaker 1: fifty five times, wounds to her chest, arms, neck, and head.
Speaker 1: The tip of the kitchen knife had broken off in
Speaker 1: her skull.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Blood covered the floor, the walls, and saturated her clothing.
Speaker 1: The attack was frenzied and very personal. Russ was barefoot
Speaker 1: in the kitchen when the officers arrived, still on the
Speaker 1: phone to nine one one, rambling and visibly shaken. To
Speaker 1: some of the officers, it looked like he was faking it.
Speaker 1: One of the officers said that they thought he was
Speaker 1: putting on a bit of a show. But it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: There were details that raised immediate suspicions. There were no
Speaker 1: signs of forced entry. The family dog was calm and unharmed,
Speaker 1: which suggested that whoever came into the house was not
Speaker 1: a stranger.
Speaker 2: I don't know what time it's happened, though.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but like a dog would kind
Speaker 1: of probably be outside or I don't know if they
Speaker 1: would be around. I don't know. There's something weird about
Speaker 1: I'm betten to be a dog expert. Rustle slippers were
Speaker 1: placed neatly nearby, completely clean. That doesn't look good odd
Speaker 1: considering the amount of blood pulled across the floor. Did
Speaker 1: he take the shoes off when he was walking into
Speaker 1: the house? What really happened there? These conditions didn't really
Speaker 1: seem consistent with someone who had been who kind of
Speaker 1: just stumbled across a really gruesome sy.
Speaker 2: Yeah when you said he was barefoot, that would make
Speaker 2: me immediately go, yeah, yeah, stumbled across that called name
Speaker 2: on one and then just taking your shoes off, Like
Speaker 2: why would your mind even be there?
Speaker 1: It did seem a little bit strange. Russ was fully cooperative.
Speaker 1: He let officers take his phone and close without resistance.
Speaker 1: He also agreed to take a polygraph test, but as
Speaker 1: a night wore on, the shift focused from Russ as
Speaker 1: grieving husband to prime suspect. Russ's clothes were clean. This
Speaker 1: led investigators to believe he staged the scene. Well he
Speaker 1: wasn't there or yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they didn't think that. That's the thing, like,
Speaker 2: obviously that's why his clothes were clean.
Speaker 1: Or it wasn't there. I think what they meant is
Speaker 1: even if he kind of leaned over her body or
Speaker 1: something or walked through the walls of blood, there would
Speaker 1: have been some blad.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking you would do that if you found your wife,
Speaker 2: like yeah, for surely you'd go to grab might Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it just seemed really suspicious. The slippers and
Speaker 1: that seemed a bit odd. And they thought that the
Speaker 1: nine one one call, which won't play in this but
Speaker 1: you can look it up if you want it is yeah,
Speaker 1: it's awful, and yeah, and they thought that he was
Speaker 1: kind of being really over the top.
Speaker 2: Isn't it funny though, I'm saying, like the reactions I'm
Speaker 2: having are because you've said he was I know, I
Speaker 2: know it wasn't him, But if I didn't know that
Speaker 2: I'd be going, Oh, yes.
Speaker 1: It's always the husband, which is which is the thing here?
Speaker 2: Now, of course it's not always the yes, but that's
Speaker 2: always the first person.
Speaker 1: Always the first person. Yeah, So he took a polygraph
Speaker 1: and he failed. They suggested that maybe he blacked out,
Speaker 1: perhaps he had snapped and just didn't remember. Russ denied
Speaker 1: this and walked them through his timeline once again. Prosecutors
Speaker 1: would later argue that Russ had returned home after spending
Speaker 1: the evening with friends, got into an argument with Betsy,
Speaker 1: possibly about money or a failing health, and snapped. They
Speaker 1: believed he stabbed her in a fit of rage, then
Speaker 1: cleaned himself up before calling nine one one, and acted
Speaker 1: like he kind of stumbled across the body. It was
Speaker 1: also suggested that his friends helped cover for him, or
Speaker 1: that he could have slipped away earlier without anyone noticing
Speaker 1: in the night. Police also interviewed other people who had
Speaker 1: seen Betsy that day, including Pam Hupp, who had dropped
Speaker 1: her off. Pam told investigators that when she dropped her off,
Speaker 1: she didn't initially go inside, but told them that Betsy
Speaker 1: had seemed anxious that day and told her that she
Speaker 1: was fearing for her life.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, hang on, and.
Speaker 1: Would happen and what would kind of happen to her
Speaker 1: daughters if anything happened to her?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Pam told authorities that Betsy had confided in her that
Speaker 1: she was actually afraid of Russ and that things at
Speaker 1: home had been extremely tense. Pam's descriptions had confirmed what
Speaker 1: authorities had already been thinking, Especially between Russ's nine one
Speaker 1: one call odd inconsistent comments he was making and the
Speaker 1: frenzied murder singe with clean clothes and slippers, it seemed
Speaker 1: sadly like this was an open and shut domestic violence
Speaker 1: case that ended with the death of Betsy. On January fourth,
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, Russ was arrested and charged with first degree murder.
Speaker 1: But the truth would come out, but not for ten
Speaker 1: years later. Oh shit, And it is in fact Georgia
Speaker 1: stranger than fiction who The trial began in late twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: nearly two years after Bets's death. Lincoln County prosecutors argued
Speaker 1: that their marriage had been under strained because of her
Speaker 1: health and that he had lashed out. They I think
Speaker 1: they I think about him as well. He was very quiet,
Speaker 1: very unassuming, and I think people went, oh, it's always
Speaker 1: the quiet ones, and they kind of built a case
Speaker 1: around him.
Speaker 2: And I mean the friend Pam's.
Speaker 1: Saying, she scared alive and she.
Speaker 2: Was scared of him. I mean again, if I didn't
Speaker 2: know it wasn't him, I'd.
Speaker 1: Be going, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so scary, though, isn't it like so scared?
Speaker 2: Maybe there are lots of others, people who wrongly convicted
Speaker 2: that we've been like, ah.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, yeah. Yeah. They also brought him.
Speaker 1: Witnesses to a test that Russ drank too much sometimes
Speaker 1: and that the couple often argued it was nothing too extreme,
Speaker 1: but just enough to paint the picture of the tension
Speaker 1: at home. It's kind of what prosecutors want to do,
Speaker 1: you know, they want to go there was tension. Are
Speaker 1: we saying beyond reasonable doubt? You know, like it's all
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah. One of Betsy's friends stated that Betsy
Speaker 1: had once told her that she was afraid of Russ
Speaker 1: and was planning on leaving him. Without physical evidence tying
Speaker 1: Russ to the scene, it was all circumstantial. Pamela Hupp
Speaker 1: took the stand and testified that she drove Betsy home
Speaker 1: that night, and that she seemed anxious, that she feared Russ,
Speaker 1: and that things had reached a breaking point behind closed doors.
Speaker 1: There were gaps in the timeline, but the state downplayed them.
Speaker 1: At the time, Russ's alibi and that he had picked
Speaker 1: up Arby's on the way home, was shaky. Prosecutors argued
Speaker 1: that the receipt with the time stamp could have been planted,
Speaker 1: or that he his friends could have helped him cover
Speaker 1: up what was really happening that night.
Speaker 2: I also feel like, if it was planted, wouldn't you
Speaker 2: make the time closer to the time of death, because
Speaker 2: didn't you say did you say time?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No? Sorry, you said he got home about half an
Speaker 2: hour after the Arby's received. Yes, yeah, do we know
Speaker 2: the time of death yet?
Speaker 1: Is that no? No?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was somewhere between that time they think
Speaker 1: gorgeous earlier than that. Yeah. The prosecution did not have
Speaker 1: to prove a motive and did not have to have
Speaker 1: physical evidence linking Russ to the crime. Circumstantial evidence alone
Speaker 1: would be enough to put him away. The polygraph was
Speaker 1: also brought in as evidence.
Speaker 2: And the jury they were allowed to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, apparently it was here and the jury were
Speaker 1: told that Russ had in fact failed. The defense felt
Speaker 1: that authorities had locked in on Russ too quickly and
Speaker 1: ignored other leads. They also argued that the scene had
Speaker 1: been tampered with, but this didn't gain any traction, and
Speaker 1: after one war there was a verdict. It only took
Speaker 1: four hours of deliberation. Russ was found guilty. The trial
Speaker 1: was only a week yeah hell. Russ was found guilty
Speaker 1: of first degree murder an armed criminal action. He was
Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of barol.
Speaker 1: When the verdict was read out, Russ barely reacted. He
Speaker 1: sat quietly as the judge read his sentence outside the courthouse.
Speaker 1: The public reaction matched what the prosecution had argued In Troy.
Speaker 1: The case became a local obsession. Russ was sent to
Speaker 1: Jefferson City Correctional Center, where he spent his days reading
Speaker 1: in the prison library and trying to hang on to
Speaker 1: some sense of routine. He had lost Betsy, he had
Speaker 1: lost everything, and now he was convicted of murder. On
Speaker 1: the outside, the case was closed, but not to everyone.
Speaker 1: Russell's friends who were with him that night never ever
Speaker 1: stopped believing him. They started reaching out to the media
Speaker 1: and Russ's cousin, Mary Rogers, who tried everything. She filed
Speaker 1: public record requests, built a timeline, and got her hands
Speaker 1: on any evidence that she could. She was convinced something
Speaker 1: didn't add up.
Speaker 2: How what a stressful situation to feel like you, as
Speaker 2: a member of the public, not an authority of any time,
Speaker 2: you feel like you have to do the police work
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 1: Because they're not that. I think that, you know a
Speaker 1: lot of the time. I think it's like if they
Speaker 1: had their victim, so they have their if they have
Speaker 1: their suspect and everything everything matches.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, of course, yeah, of course they're not
Speaker 2: doing it. Yeah, it's not even I'm not even the authorities.
Speaker 2: They they're gonna like they.
Speaker 1: Believe that it is exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: I mean, like for her sitting there going, well, I'm
Speaker 2: going to have to do this myself. Then the stress.
Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, the case called the attention of Dateline.
Speaker 1: Dateline often called Dateline NBC, is a long running American
Speaker 1: television news magazine and true crime show that focuses primarily
Speaker 1: on real life criminal investigations, mysterious deaths, and courtroom drama.
Speaker 2: Why is it called Dateline.
Speaker 1: Do you know, I don't know why it's called Dateline. No. Oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I should have looked that up. But maybe we
Speaker 1: can do it in a fact check. We always do
Speaker 1: fact shick.
Speaker 2: You sit that like its a fun segment.
Speaker 1: Everyone will look forward to that fact check moment. Each
Speaker 1: episode typically explores one or two cases in depth, using interviews,
Speaker 1: police footage, reenactments, archival video, and narration to reconstruct what
Speaker 1: happened and how the case unfolded. The show is especially
Speaker 1: known for its slow burned storytelling, plot twists, and attention
Speaker 1: to the psychology and motives of the people involved. Since
Speaker 1: its debut in nineteen ninety two on NBC Yeah, Dateline
Speaker 1: has become a staple of true crime TV. The case
Speaker 1: the Case of Betsy had all elements of a compelling
Speaker 1: true crime case. The Dateline team reviewed transcripts and started
Speaker 1: to retrace Russ's footsteps that day and make their own
Speaker 1: timeline of what they believed was possible. As they got deeper.
Speaker 1: As they got deeper, cracks began to show there were
Speaker 1: so many unanswered questions. Joel Schwartz, Russ's attorney, was still
Speaker 1: working on the case along with I Believe and look
Speaker 1: I've read this in some reports and it's not in
Speaker 1: other reports. I cannot confirm this for sure, but a
Speaker 1: woman by the name of Kathleen Zelner. Do you know
Speaker 1: who that is?
Speaker 2: I recognized the name and nationally.
Speaker 1: Recognized attorney for overturning wrongful convictions. So there are some
Speaker 1: reports that Joel Schwartz being Russ's attorney, but only a
Speaker 1: couple actually mentioned Kathleen, And I don't know. Maybe I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you who she is.
Speaker 2: I picked up my phone to google for you.
Speaker 1: When you find out who she is, But I don't
Speaker 1: know if she was maybe just an advisor and it's
Speaker 1: not on her record of what she did. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you actually know the truth of this, and if
Speaker 1: you know if it was this Kathleen Zelna, please do
Speaker 1: right in because Kathleen T. Zelner is an American attorney
Speaker 1: based in Illinois, best known for her work on wrongful
Speaker 1: conviction cases, civil rights litigation, medical medical malpractice suits, and
Speaker 1: post conviction appeals. She was kind of built a national
Speaker 1: reputation as a fierce advocate for individuals who have been
Speaker 1: unjustly convicted, for those whose rights have been violated. She
Speaker 1: gained widespread public attention as the attorney.
Speaker 2: For I wanted to get I know that, I know it.
Speaker 2: Can you give me a hint?
Speaker 1: I want to guess that very popular, a very popular
Speaker 1: TV show was made about this crime.
Speaker 2: Oh making him up? Ye, guess that there are not
Speaker 2: many better feelings in the world. I mean, that's that's
Speaker 2: not quite to this, but like the best feeling in
Speaker 2: the world is when there's something on the tip of
Speaker 2: your tongue I can't remember and then it just comes
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 1: I think it's funny to ma like that, like you
Speaker 1: don't actually know the words for it.
Speaker 4: So ra.
Speaker 1: So the song, listen to whatever. So like Stephen every
Speaker 1: the Netflix documentary where she worked on post conviction challenges
Speaker 1: to his conviction, and she is actually in the second
Speaker 1: series of that as well, quite heavily.
Speaker 2: I'm going to do that story soon.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah. So even if look, even if it's not
Speaker 1: her that actually even it's not her up, she's great
Speaker 1: and I want to talk about her.
Speaker 2: I'd like to talk as well. I'd like to give
Speaker 2: a shout out to zac Efron, just like to talk
Speaker 2: about him.
Speaker 1: Sure, thank you for bringing him up as well. Zeena
Speaker 1: has represented other notable wrongful conviction clients like Kevin Fox
Speaker 1: and Ryan Ferguson winning their exonerations and all civil rights verdicts.
Speaker 1: Her legal work has been featured on television documentaries, and
Speaker 1: she's received national awards for her advocacy, such as the
Speaker 1: American Bar Association's Pursuit of Justice Award. In twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: Zeona served as a consultant to Johnny Depp on the
Speaker 1: Debt versus her Defamation drive. So, look, even if it's
Speaker 1: not the same Zena, I thought it was worth mentioning
Speaker 1: her biography because I'm sure at some point will be
Speaker 1: covering Stephen Avery, which is yeah, you would.
Speaker 2: Let's do Johnny Depenhamer herd as a Thursday trait as well. Real,
Speaker 2: that's me furious, but we should talk about it.
Speaker 1: It will. So the two started building a broader appeal.
Speaker 1: These are the two attorneys, whether it's them or not,
Speaker 1: not just to argue that Russ was innocent, but began
Speaker 1: laying out the evidence that would then point to someone else.
Speaker 2: That's the thing as well, if there seems to be
Speaker 2: enough evidence to convict someone, there was enough evidence to
Speaker 2: convict someone, they did convict someone. It's you often look
Speaker 2: at it. It's like it's not enough to just say
Speaker 2: nobody didn't do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you can say, but this person did, you're
Speaker 2: way more.
Speaker 1: Like exactly you know, well, was it somebody that they
Speaker 1: already knew? Yes, it was the very person that dropped Betsy.
Speaker 2: Off hap No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: In fact, shortly before Betsy's death, Betsy had changed her
Speaker 1: beneficiary to her friend Pam Sammy What who insisted that
Speaker 1: she was just trying to help her dear friend.
Speaker 2: What did you just drop out of nowhere? Just quietly?
Speaker 2: It was Pam What.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this question.
Speaker 2: They ask you it is son.
Speaker 1: Who the fuck is Pam?
Speaker 2: How the fuck is Pam hap?
Speaker 1: Who the fuck is Pam?
Speaker 2: How the fuck is Pam hap Pa?
Speaker 1: A cool song? It does?
Speaker 2: Who the fuck is Pam?
Speaker 1: Got any single songwriters? Please do?
Speaker 2: I'm writing it and singing it now?
Speaker 1: Good?
Speaker 2: Good? Fuck is Pam.
Speaker 1: Hop you're a real lyricist.
Speaker 2: You're about to tell me. You're about to tell me
Speaker 2: soother Digs is also a.
Speaker 1: Pop like that. Yeah, it'd be very good in the
Speaker 1: Pam up song if Diggs came up for no reason?
Speaker 5: Who?
Speaker 1: Yes, a Pam Hup was born Pamela Marine Newman or.
Speaker 2: Can I just say I'm not. I'm not currently signed
Speaker 2: to any record labels, so I'm available if anyone listening
Speaker 2: is interested. A.
Speaker 1: Pam Hup was born Pamela Marine Newman on October tenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, nineteen fifty eight, in Dalwood, Missouri, a
Speaker 1: working class suburb just north of Saint Louis. She was
Speaker 1: the third of four kids in a devout Catholic family.
Speaker 1: Her dad worked for an electricity company while her mum
Speaker 1: worked as a school teacher. She had a pretty stand
Speaker 1: the upbringing. She went to Riverview Gardens High School, where
Speaker 1: she was where she was a cheerleader. People described her
Speaker 1: as outgoing and a little intense. She was occasionally funny
Speaker 1: and loved to be the center of attention.
Speaker 2: Occasionally funny.
Speaker 1: That's the best way described I find of her. Was
Speaker 1: she just occasionally funny. No one ever said it funny.
Speaker 1: In her senior year, Pam fell pregnant. She married her
Speaker 1: boyfriend shortly after graduation. The marriage only lasted a few
Speaker 1: years before they were divorced. Eventually, Pam married Markup, a.
Speaker 2: Farmer cup Markup that's a made up name.
Speaker 1: A former minor moe.
Speaker 2: You're saying, like, whose cup is that?
Speaker 1: That's Mark, that's my cup, a former minor league baseball
Speaker 1: player turned carpenter. They had a son together and lived
Speaker 1: in Florida for a short time before moving back to
Speaker 1: Missouri and settled in a town near Saint Louis. They
Speaker 1: bought a modest home and flipped houses on the side.
Speaker 1: That's pretty heavy.
Speaker 2: He been strong.
Speaker 1: Pam worked a series of administration assistant jobs. She worked
Speaker 1: at State Farm Insurance for a short time. Some of
Speaker 1: her past coworkers described her as competent. I've got a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of compliments, competent and organized, while
Speaker 1: others thought she was defensing a defense defensive, not good
Speaker 1: at defensing, domineering, and prone to exaggeration.
Speaker 2: I would put money on that she Oh wait, no,
Speaker 2: you said her. What was her birthday?
Speaker 1: Nineteen fifty eight?
Speaker 2: Do you remember that? It was October or something, wasn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was October.
Speaker 2: I was going to say she's a virgo. They're saying
Speaker 2: she's organized the right way. She's also defensive, saying that,
Speaker 2: dear listener, because I will kill you with it, and
Speaker 2: I will kill you. Oh my god, Oh my God,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to kill anyone, and I was forgetting
Speaker 2: we are talking about a murderer. That's not funny. Sorry.
Speaker 1: So she was actually let go after she was caught
Speaker 1: forging signatures for the insurance place. Over the years Pam
Speaker 1: she made some pretty big claims that she had a
Speaker 1: high level security clearance and ties to the FBI. None
Speaker 1: of this was true. By twenty ten, she was claiming
Speaker 1: disability for chronic pain and stopped working full time. She
Speaker 1: was known for being incredibly frugal, almost to the point
Speaker 1: of obsession. She would find anything to flip for a profit.
Speaker 1: She could be fairly manipulative and no nonsense attitude, but
Speaker 1: in public seemed like a fairly upstanding good person who
Speaker 1: took care of her aging mother, Shirley. She wasn't surely
Speaker 1: isn't Shirley and I his name. She wasn't particularly social,
Speaker 1: but not a hermit either, and she kept a very
Speaker 1: low profile. Now, Gee's excited right now because Biggs just
Speaker 1: picked up the toy he has been not playing with
Speaker 1: as much. Chimpican.
Speaker 2: You got him a toy chimkin for his birthday that
Speaker 2: he hasn't really cared about, and it was just up
Speaker 2: on the TV cabinet. He just walked over, quietly, picked
Speaker 2: it up, and brought it over to his bed. It's
Speaker 2: very good. I am concentrating on you though, I mean,
Speaker 2: I promise to.
Speaker 1: People on the outside. Pam looked like a very good
Speaker 1: friend to Betsy after her diagnosis. As investigators began to
Speaker 1: dig deeper, Pam's rule began to look very different and
Speaker 1: truly disturbing. In February twenty fifteen, the Missouri Court of
Speaker 1: Appeals overturned Russell's conviction because all this the court side
Speaker 1: of major legal errors. Sorry, including evidence. Sorry, this is
Speaker 1: why I got this fixed up, including excluding evidence they
Speaker 1: had that could have pointed to another suspect. Oh wow, Yeah.
Speaker 1: It cleared the way for a new trial, whether defense
Speaker 1: could finally tell Russell's full story.
Speaker 2: Okay, so they don't. The courts don't know yet that
Speaker 2: it's Pam.
Speaker 1: No, but they're saying they.
Speaker 2: He's got an appeal and an overturn conviction because his
Speaker 2: appeals lawyer has gone, there was evidence that you didn't
Speaker 2: include in the trial. How was that I get an appeal?
Speaker 1: Cut?
Speaker 2: Like when Peel's lawyer to say that, like were his
Speaker 2: lawyers in the first place.
Speaker 1: Shit, Yeah, they must have been, or that there was
Speaker 1: just enough evidence they thought circumstanced. They couldn't point it
Speaker 1: to someone else at the time, so I guess they
Speaker 1: just went, oh, it's definitely this person, it's in it like,
Speaker 1: and the jury ate it up.
Speaker 2: This doesn't feel like a groundbreaking thing to say, but
Speaker 2: I feel like all evidence available should always be put
Speaker 2: before the court.
Speaker 1: Correct. Correct?
Speaker 2: I agree with are crazy to say that?
Speaker 1: That's not crazy to say at all.
Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1: At the retrial in November twenty fifteen, there was a
Speaker 1: very different version of events told in a new trial.
Speaker 1: The jury learned that Betsy had changed the beneficiary to
Speaker 1: a one hundred and fifty thousand dollars life insurance policy
Speaker 1: to none other than Pam Up just four days before
Speaker 1: her death. Four days before days.
Speaker 2: It was so stupid. You hear this so often that
Speaker 2: days or like two weeks after changing the bed, there
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, disious circumstances that.
Speaker 1: Is so obvious, so obvious, she had removed Russ and
Speaker 1: added Pam. There was no formal documentation.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm going to now immediately go back on what
Speaker 2: I just said. Perhaps they have looked at that and
Speaker 2: that that was a smoking gun for them to go.
Speaker 2: She's removed him from the life ahead of him because exactly.
Speaker 1: There were no formal documentation to indicate why, and there
Speaker 1: was no indication that Betsy's daughters were going to receive
Speaker 1: any of that money.
Speaker 2: Which seems yeah, sorry, I'm fullipping.
Speaker 1: And the defense introduced this as a financial motive, an
Speaker 1: evidence that she had kept from the jurors the first
Speaker 1: time around. H that had been kept, she had kept.
Speaker 1: There was also evidence of shifting statements from Pam. At
Speaker 1: one point she claimed that she never entered Betsy's house,
Speaker 1: and another time she said that she did. Pam declined
Speaker 1: to testify at the set trial her Fifth Amendment right
Speaker 1: against self incrimination. Without her on the stand, the defense
Speaker 1: could highlight the inconsistencies and how differently she was treated
Speaker 1: than Russ as a suspect. Pam's versions of events also
Speaker 1: did not match the mobile or cell phone records which
Speaker 1: placed her near the Faria home a freier home, sorry,
Speaker 1: and while after she said she.
Speaker 2: Left, sorry, mobile p taw pings did place her there
Speaker 2: long after she said she left. Yeah, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: why was this investigation? Sir Paul in the first place. Also,
Speaker 2: we say it's always the husband, but it's also always
Speaker 2: the person who saw them last year. It's like who
Speaker 2: they look at what?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the defense laid out the full timeline that investigators
Speaker 1: never verified in the initial investigation.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: The first trial solely focused on Russ and not any
Speaker 1: other explanations for what had actually occurred.
Speaker 2: Which in the trial I can understand, but the police
Speaker 2: investigation should done that.
Speaker 1: That's right. Russ did not have blood on him, even
Speaker 1: though the murder was horrifyingly gruesome. Witnesses described Betsy's final
Speaker 1: days as hopeful, not of someone living in fear. Schwartzen's
Speaker 1: owners showed the alibi, financial records, and phone logs that
Speaker 1: have been missing from the original trial, stating that Russ's
Speaker 1: conviction had never been properly scrutinized despite his alibis. On
Speaker 1: November seventh, twenty fifteen, after just three and a half
Speaker 1: hours of deliberation, the juror returned with a verdict. Guess
Speaker 1: where they decided you love not guilty. Russ was acquitted
Speaker 1: on all charges.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 1: He walked out of the courthouse after spending four years
Speaker 1: imprisoned for a crime he did not commit, and.
Speaker 2: A crime that would have ruined his life anyway.
Speaker 1: Absolutely none of the officials in the original investigation faced
Speaker 1: any consequences. Jesus, but Russ did not fade away. He
Speaker 1: gave interviews, spoke out about wrongful convictions, and filed a
Speaker 1: federal civil rights lawsuit against Lincoln County and the members
Speaker 1: of law enforcements. So would I.
Speaker 2: I'll be like, you're not keeping me down. You owe
Speaker 2: me at the very least an.
Speaker 1: Arby's Arby's Burger. This would stretch on for years. He
Speaker 1: also spoke out about how someone's life can be dismantled
Speaker 1: from a flawed investigation and about how difficult it is
Speaker 1: to rebuild your life. Meanwhile, Pam Hupp remained out and
Speaker 1: with one hundred and fifty thousand dollars from Betty's life
Speaker 1: insurance policy.
Speaker 2: Hold on, he's been acquitted and they haven't immediately.
Speaker 1: Gone yeah, she continued.
Speaker 2: Out, Okay, sorry, So I suppose the appeal trial is
Speaker 2: whether he's guilty or not. It did it suggest that
Speaker 2: it was that it was, Pam? But I don't know
Speaker 2: that feels like then they should in arrest.
Speaker 1: Her, so she continued aud in public shopping at the
Speaker 1: same stores and going about her business while Russ now
Speaker 1: struggled day in day out without the love of his life.
Speaker 1: Less than a year later, another person would end up dead.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I forgot about this.
Speaker 1: But on August sixteenth, twenty sixteen, Pam called nine to
Speaker 1: one one from her home. She told dispatches that a
Speaker 1: man had attempted to kidnap her in broad daylight. He
Speaker 1: had followed her home, jumped in her car, held a
Speaker 1: knife to her throat while threatening her family and demanding money.
Speaker 2: Goodness, Pam has bad luck, doesn't she.
Speaker 1: She managed to escape and collected a gun from her
Speaker 1: home and managed to shoot the man in self defense
Speaker 1: while the king in the house.
Speaker 2: Oh, she has just kept from him. Oh, when he
Speaker 2: said and got a gun from her house, I was
Speaker 2: picturing her like running to the house. I'm knocking the door,
Speaker 2: going no, no, no. He took her into the house.
Speaker 1: Well. While speaking with dispatches, she said that she believed
Speaker 1: she had been targeted because of the Farrier case.
Speaker 2: So she's the victim.
Speaker 1: Yeah. When police arrived, they found the body of thirty
Speaker 1: three year old Lewis Gumpenberger just inside the front door.
Speaker 1: He had been shot in the chest and head in
Speaker 1: close range. A knife was found nearby, and in his
Speaker 1: pocket a note written in block letters instructing Pam to
Speaker 1: drive him to a bank, withdraw Russ's money and hand
Speaker 1: it over or handed over or risk harm to her daughter. Now,
Speaker 1: Lewis Gumpenberger was not a criminal. He had suffered a
Speaker 1: traumatic brain injury in a car accident just years earlier,
Speaker 1: leaving him with a limp, limited speech, and a need
Speaker 1: for daily care. His family described him as gentle, caring, trusting,
Speaker 1: and someone who would not have understood a plan described
Speaker 1: in the note. Lewis's mother, Margaret Burch, said that he
Speaker 1: never mentioned Pam Hub or anything to do with the
Speaker 1: case at all. That morning, he was at home with
Speaker 1: his mother. He didn't drive and had no way of
Speaker 1: getting to Pam by himself. Police began canvassing the area,
Speaker 1: checking surveillance footage, and that's when her story began to
Speaker 1: fall apart.
Speaker 2: God, I'm obsessed with this, Give me more, put it
Speaker 2: into my veins.
Speaker 1: That same morning, Pam had been spotted driving through a
Speaker 1: low income apartment complex at Saint Charles. Witnesses said that
Speaker 1: Pam was offering one thousand dollars to reenact a nine
Speaker 1: to one one call for Dateline. A maintenance worker turned
Speaker 1: her down, saying it sounded strange, and another woman turned
Speaker 1: her down to but thought it was really odd and
Speaker 1: she should probably get Pam's plates. Pam approached Lewis outside,
Speaker 1: and nearby apartment building witnesses saw him get into her car.
Speaker 1: He looked confused but not frightened. Further damning, the nine
Speaker 1: hundred dollars in Lewis's pocket was in an envelope that
Speaker 1: had actually come from Pam's house.
Speaker 2: Fucking hell, this woman.
Speaker 1: And the note that the instructions were on was a
Speaker 1: notepad from her kitchen counter.
Speaker 2: Pam, you're a fucking idiot.
Speaker 1: An idiot. The knife matched others in the drawer, and
Speaker 1: the pen news to write the note was also hers.
Speaker 1: Walmart footage was discovered that Pam that day was buying
Speaker 1: rolls of paper, towels, a notepad, and a knife, all
Speaker 1: found at the scene.
Speaker 2: Pam, you're doing this all wrong. To hey, girl, give
Speaker 2: me a call, I'll give you some tips.
Speaker 1: Don't give you a call.
Speaker 2: I listen to enough, I engage enough to crime.
Speaker 1: I've got some tips. After shopping Pam dumped the packaging
Speaker 1: and receipt into a public trash can. Pam had scratches
Speaker 1: on her wrist, while she later admitted were self inflicted,
Speaker 1: to prove that there was a struggle. Pam wanted to
Speaker 1: shift focus from the Betsy case, and if she could
Speaker 1: show herself as a target, then all heat would be
Speaker 1: off her.
Speaker 2: No, wouldn't, Pam. I've got news for you. You've made
Speaker 2: it a lot worse.
Speaker 1: She planted the rant and note to imply that it
Speaker 1: could have been Russ who who sent Lewis to kill her.
Speaker 1: She implied he was hired as one of Russ's people, so.
Speaker 2: Even though he's mad acquitted, She's like, I'm going to
Speaker 2: get him back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, back, yeah, but I guess to get all the
Speaker 1: heat off her. That's what you.
Speaker 2: Believed, Pam, Pam, Pam? Are you saying, Pam? Or Pan?
Speaker 1: Pam? Come mom. A week after the death of Lewis,
Speaker 1: Pam was arrested in twenty sixteen and charged with first
Speaker 1: degree murder and armed criminal action.
Speaker 2: For gergen Bergen or whatever Lewis.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors announced they would seek the death penalty. But this
Speaker 1: isn't the end of Pam's story.
Speaker 2: No, because she's got to be charged for her friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right. Investigators and reports started as reporters started to
Speaker 1: look at not just the death of Betsy and Lewis,
Speaker 1: but also were there any other crimes that Pam might
Speaker 1: have convicted? Did she in fact kill someone else? Give
Speaker 1: me it, Sammy three years earlier. On the morning of
Speaker 1: October thirtieth, two thousand and thirteen.
Speaker 2: So between Betsy and Lewis's that's.
Speaker 1: Right, yep, staff at Lakeview Park, a retirement living facility,
Speaker 1: found the body of Shirley Newman, Pam's seventy seven year
Speaker 1: old mother. Shirley was laying on the not old at all.
Speaker 1: Shirley was laying on the grass below her third floor
Speaker 1: apartment balcony.
Speaker 2: Don't do not dare tell me. This woman has thrown
Speaker 2: her mother out the window.
Speaker 1: Was determined that she had fallen through the iron railings
Speaker 1: or over the iron railings sometime during the night. At
Speaker 1: the time, police ruled it as a tragic accident. Pam
Speaker 1: told investigators that her mother was confused, frail, and heavily medicated,
Speaker 1: but there were no signs this was anything more sinister.
Speaker 1: The railing was spaced closely enough that an accidental fall
Speaker 1: actually seemed really unlikely, and that she had blunt trauma
Speaker 1: which could be consistent with a fall, but no autopsy
Speaker 1: was ever performed. The case was closed, but after Pam
Speaker 1: was arrested, it was reopened. The toxicology report showed extreme
Speaker 1: high levels of zolpidem, the active ingredient in ambient. Staff
Speaker 1: later said that Pam had dropped her off that night
Speaker 1: and strictly told staff not to check on her mother
Speaker 1: until the next day.
Speaker 2: What is going on?
Speaker 1: And no wellness checks or anything. After Shirley's death, Pam
Speaker 1: collected nearly five hundred thousand dollars in life insurance.
Speaker 2: Fucking okay, I have some advice to anyone and everyone
Speaker 2: out there. Hey, don't don't get me wrong. I like
Speaker 2: money as much as the next guy, often more than
Speaker 2: the next guy, I could argue. I will say categorically,
Speaker 2: no amount of money is worth murdering somebody at all.
Speaker 1: M H.
Speaker 2: Certainly not your friends and.
Speaker 1: Family preach its sister, Thank you, I will. There was
Speaker 1: no physical evidence linking Pam to her mother's fall, but
Speaker 1: it showed a recurring pattern.
Speaker 2: And guess what, Pam, If you've learned anything from Russ
Speaker 2: Pam is that there doesn't need to be any physical
Speaker 2: evidence Pam.
Speaker 1: In November twenty seventeen, the Saint Louis Medical Examiner changed
Speaker 1: the cause of death for Shirley to undetermined. In December
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, Pam was booked into jail for the murder
Speaker 1: of Lewis.
Speaker 2: When she booked into jail like she's just don't know,
Speaker 2: like on booking dot com.
Speaker 1: When she was being served with court pages, she asked
Speaker 1: to use the bathroom. Minutes later, officers found her bleeding
Speaker 1: on the floor. Ah, she had stabbed herself in the
Speaker 1: wrists and neck with a pen. Minutes later, officers found
Speaker 1: her bleeding on the floor. Ah, she had stabbed herself
Speaker 1: in the wrists and neck with a pen.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: She's revived her alternity story. Her attorneys argued she was
Speaker 1: unfit to stand trial, but after psychological evaluation, she was
Speaker 1: deemed fit good. By early twenty eighteen, court proceedings resumed.
Speaker 1: Pam was facing the possibility of a public trial and
Speaker 1: a death sentence. In June twenty nineteen, Pam changed her plea.
Speaker 1: She ended she entered an alpha plea, meaning that she
Speaker 1: did not admit guilt, but acknowledge that the evidence against
Speaker 1: her would likely lead to a conviction.
Speaker 2: We don't have that in Australia. And it's interesting with that, No,
Speaker 2: it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It is interesting though, but it's not it's stupid.
Speaker 2: It's stupid. Yeah, because the whole point is, and well,
Speaker 2: you know what, we kinda have it in Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 2: But you're allowed to plead guilty without actually giving details.
Speaker 2: And I really disagree with that. Let's do the story
Speaker 2: of bors Rostevski at some point. That is an example
Speaker 2: in Australia where a husband was charged with his wife's murder.
Speaker 2: He was not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, not guilty,
Speaker 2: and then at the eleventh hour he said, all right,
Speaker 2: I'll not I'll plead guilty to manslaughter.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: And they went, oh, look there's not a lot of evidence.
Speaker 2: We don't know if we're going to get a conviction
Speaker 2: or not, so we'll take the guilty pleader manslaughter, right, okay.
Speaker 2: But he didn't ever have to actually say this is
Speaker 2: what happened and these are the facts. He just said,
Speaker 2: I'm pleading guilty, yet what's my sentence? And of course,
Speaker 2: because it's mans not murder, he didn't get very long. Wow,
Speaker 2: I'll do that story soon.
Speaker 1: You just ruined it.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't, because I haven't told you about what
Speaker 2: actually happened.
Speaker 1: The court accepted the play, and Pam was sentenced to
Speaker 1: life in prison without the possibility of parole, but avoiding
Speaker 1: the death penalty and a trial. But what about Betsy's murder?
Speaker 1: No one had been held accountable, so this is just
Speaker 1: for Lewis Ewis. Yes. In twenty twenty, newly elected Lincoln
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Mike would announce that the case would be reopened
Speaker 1: in July two thousand and one, nearly a decade to
Speaker 1: the day of Betsy's murder. Pam Hup because that is
Speaker 1: twenty one, so sorry. Twenty twenty one, nearly a decade
Speaker 1: to the day at Betsy's murder, Pam Hupp was formally
Speaker 1: charged with first degree murder.
Speaker 2: Why did it take that long?
Speaker 1: It's insane, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Pam rass as well, I know, because he's still going
Speaker 2: like he's been acquitted, but he's still going through life.
Speaker 2: And also her daughters going, hello, someone killed our wife.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and probably their feelings towards Russ as well during
Speaker 1: that time, going, oh my god, our dad is yeah.
Speaker 1: Pam killed Betsy in order to collect the life insurance
Speaker 1: policy and stage the scene to make it look like
Speaker 1: a domestic attack, and allowed Russ to go away for
Speaker 1: the murder of his wife. Much of the evidence had emerged,
Speaker 1: including her conflicting statements, her unexplained access to a key
Speaker 1: to a key near the Farrier home, so the Farrier
Speaker 1: home and cell phone tower record's face are placing her
Speaker 1: at the home long after she said she had actually left.
Speaker 1: Investigators concluded that her timeline had never been thoroughly investigated.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors pointed to a broader pattern, a vulnerable victim, a
Speaker 1: financial motive, and a story that would soon unravel. In
Speaker 1: January twenty twenty five, a judge set the trial date
Speaker 1: for the murder of Betsy Apharia for August third, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six. In the meantime, she was incarcerated for life
Speaker 1: for the murder of Lewis.
Speaker 2: So sorry if anyone is questioning why I went, oh,
Speaker 2: because if maybe you're listening to this yump down the
Speaker 2: track yeap at the time of recording, exactly months months
Speaker 2: away from August.
Speaker 1: And we're going to have got a date in my
Speaker 1: diary to look this back up who Pam Hupp's legal
Speaker 1: team has been finding over DNA evidence they say might
Speaker 1: support her innocence in the Betsy Farier case, seeking access
Speaker 1: to samples they argue could point away from her, though
Speaker 1: prosecutors dispute that interpretation.
Speaker 2: I don't believe.
Speaker 1: A former crime scene investigator named Michael Merkle stop it has.
Speaker 1: Michael Merkle I love It has been charged with two
Speaker 1: counts of perjury related to testimony he gave in the
Speaker 1: original twenty thirteen murder trial of Russ. Prosecutors allege that
Speaker 1: Merkle lied under oath about who Merkle? What's his for? Name?
Speaker 1: Michael Merkle.
Speaker 6: Ah.
Speaker 1: The prosecutors alleged that Merkele lied under oath about critical
Speaker 1: crime scene evidence, specifically luminescent blood testing. Merkle testified that
Speaker 1: photos Aiken using a product called bluster used to detect
Speaker 1: traces of blood, showed absolutely nothing because of his supposed
Speaker 1: camera malfunction. Court records later showed that most of the
Speaker 1: evidence most of the evidence photos did show signs of luminescence,
Speaker 1: meaning blood traces were visible when enhanced, contradicting Merkle's testimony.
Speaker 1: So his testimony was all over the place, and they went, well,
Speaker 1: it's actually.
Speaker 2: How are there so many people giving like who are
Speaker 2: meant to be experts giving false evidence?
Speaker 1: Like what's going on? What's your job? His testimony helped
Speaker 1: support the prosecution's narrative in Russ Free's twenty thirteen trial,
Speaker 1: where he was convicted of killing his wife, a conviction
Speaker 1: that was later overturned. The perjury chargers argue that Michael
Speaker 1: Merkle's statements may have misled the court and contributed to
Speaker 1: Russ's wrongful imprisonment. Perjury in a murder case is a
Speaker 1: Class A felony in Missouri with no statute of limitations.
Speaker 1: If proven, the perjury charges could significantly affect public trust
Speaker 1: in the justice system and raise further questions about investigative
Speaker 1: practices in the Betsy case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to tell you, Missouri court justice system,
Speaker 2: You've already got a couple of question monks. I'm not
Speaker 2: just blaming Michael.
Speaker 1: Merkle, bro you would never Prosecutors have indicated they are
Speaker 1: seeking the death penalty in the Betsy for Reer case
Speaker 1: because of the brutal nature of the crime.
Speaker 2: I thought it meant death penalty for Michael.
Speaker 1: The meaning. The stakes are extremely high. Because of the
Speaker 1: publicity and complexity, the trial will likely be closely watched
Speaker 1: by true crime audiences, legal analysts, and national media. Similar
Speaker 1: to other high profile murder trials, defense attorneys will probably
Speaker 1: push hard to reinterpret or reframe existing evidence. How jurors
Speaker 1: respond to competing theirs about the physical evidence could be decisive.
Speaker 1: Russ called the charges a relief, long overdue but meaningful.
Speaker 1: Betsy's daughters thanked the prosecutors for reopening the case.
Speaker 2: Those poor girls women.
Speaker 1: So there's more to come. In the case of Pam Hup,
Speaker 1: there is a pretty bad series made about it called
Speaker 1: The Thing About Pam.
Speaker 2: Yes terrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with Renasy as Pam. It's absolutely fine, I would
Speaker 1: say serviceable, but there's a very strange narrator over the
Speaker 1: whole thing that gives it a Christmasy alf kind of
Speaker 1: vibe over the whole thing. It's quite cartoonish and colorful
Speaker 1: in the way they tell the story. And I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't really like her. But Pamela's case stands out
Speaker 1: as a disturbing blend of murder, deception and legal tragedy,
Speaker 1: with at least one confirmed killing, another murder charge ongoing,
Speaker 1: and questions remaining around other suspicious deaths she might I
Speaker 1: have benefited from. Pam Hup's actions caused immense suffering, including
Speaker 1: the wrongful imprisonment of an innocent man and the deaths
Speaker 1: of two vulnerable individuals, and her story remains a continuing
Speaker 1: saga in the American true crime landscape. That g is
Speaker 1: the murder of Betsy and the case of Awful Person Pamela.
Speaker 2: Hup alleged awful is committed of Cales.
Speaker 1: Wow. What Wow?
Speaker 2: I loved that. Yeah, it's I'm surprised as well when
Speaker 2: it's like, all, yeah, I'm going to do a quick
Speaker 2: google of what they look like. I like to picture
Speaker 2: people like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really it's a really interesting case. And also
Speaker 1: with the you know, the trial coming up, it's going
Speaker 1: to be really interesting to watch that as it happens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, pam is h Up, but yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really Oh my god.
Speaker 2: She looks like a totally run of the mill, like
Speaker 2: kind of later middle aged American woman.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And she was, you know, devout Catholic growing up,
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, yeah, there was no like talk of
Speaker 1: what turned her into this person, you know, growing up,
Speaker 1: like would you I found really interesting as well, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it just seemed like all of a sudden she became
Speaker 1: really obsessed with getting money, and you know if she
Speaker 1: did your mum as well.
Speaker 2: So oh god, the pictures of her name as her
Speaker 2: a shock, yeah, a very bad fat sit on. Sorry.
Speaker 2: The reason I went oh because.
Speaker 1: I was like, what is going on?
Speaker 2: Why she got a weir collar on in her mug shots. No,
Speaker 2: there are big patches over her neck because where she
Speaker 2: stabbed herself with the pin.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh she looks a bit like your old neighbor.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll never know who were talking.
Speaker 1: No, exactly if.
Speaker 2: You've lived near Sam, we're not talking about I've never
Speaker 2: got you, Sam. No, You've rewired my brain with this
Speaker 2: pam hup story. I'm excited. Yeah, oh okay, I'm really
Speaker 2: into this. Is this Betsy your picture here? That that one? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I want to see what rust looks like to you. Sorry,
Speaker 2: this is really good listening for you guys. Just while
Speaker 2: I google some things. What was Russa's center, please russ
Speaker 2: free it was. I didn't know. It's twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: I don't know if people change the sum when they
Speaker 2: get married.
Speaker 1: I didn't, you didn't.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll just keep googling and we'll sit in silence. Oh,
Speaker 2: Russ doesn't look like what I pictured. Russ looks like
Speaker 2: a kind of I don't know, like a someone that
Speaker 2: works at an Italian restaurant.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Anyway, this is good. I'm sniffing in the microphone.
Speaker 1: Let's finish.
Speaker 2: It's going well. Sorry, but yeah, and.
Speaker 1: A really interesting story. I found that really interesting. That's fascinating.
Speaker 2: Wow it is.
Speaker 1: Yes, yep, thank you.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is a stranger than Stuart Little. You were
Speaker 2: right much much much. I just a mind blown by
Speaker 2: the fact that they did not properly clear the last
Speaker 2: person to see bets your life. I know, I know,
Speaker 2: like that's just that is an administrative thing that you do. Hey, Pam,
Speaker 2: we know you dropped off. We've just got to clear
Speaker 2: you of everything. Can you show us any evidence of
Speaker 2: what time you got home? We just need to be
Speaker 2: able to check.
Speaker 1: That off as just a blind focus.
Speaker 2: On and the death benefit has been changed, so we're
Speaker 2: just going to make sure because I you know that
Speaker 2: that could look like, oh oops, you had something. We're
Speaker 2: just going to make sure you didn't, okay, and then
Speaker 2: we can clear your name. They don't seem to have
Speaker 2: done that at all.
Speaker 1: No, the death beneficiary, did you say death benefit?
Speaker 2: The benefit of death on Pam's bank account?
Speaker 1: Yes, okay.
Speaker 2: I can change almost anything I say to make it
Speaker 2: sound like I was correct.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, very good girl.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I loved that, Sammy.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a really interesting story for this week.
Speaker 1: And I don't wether watching the series, but it's really
Speaker 1: it is really interesting that this case will be going
Speaker 1: to trial.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I will not soon forget the name Michael Merkle,
Speaker 2: and thank you for bringing that into my mind. I
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with a mail bag very soon.
Speaker 2: Everybody, Thank you. And it's the mail bag. It's the
Speaker 2: mail bag. I've decided to write a jingle for the
Speaker 2: mail bag.
Speaker 1: I loved that. That was beautiful. That was Coldplay there.
Speaker 1: If you don't know co Play the band ready for
Speaker 1: This is our first beautiful voicemail for today. Do you like? Well,
Speaker 1: you're not only going to like this voicemail, but I
Speaker 1: know that you are gonna bloody lover. I haven't listened
Speaker 1: to it, but I think you'll recognize the voice. Right away.
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, did you number one fair Marina Pryor convictions
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Speaker 2: Friend Georgia loves friend and Sammy Peterson's trenmy.
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Speaker 5: Look, I'm just.
Speaker 1: Calling to let you know, first of all, fucking killing
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 2: As you know, I'm an avid true crime listener, watcher reader.
Speaker 2: I love it all and you guys are fucking nailing it.
Speaker 3: I love the pod so much, not coming from a
Speaker 3: bias standpoint.
Speaker 1: Not my friend of me love it.
Speaker 2: Mostly. I'm calling on behalf of all the friends here. Sorry,
Speaker 2: all the fans. We're protesting in the streets. We are
Speaker 2: demanding some horrendous and harrowing merch.
Speaker 1: The people have spoken spoken.
Speaker 3: I really would love a mark that on one side
Speaker 3: says what and on the other side says, what do
Speaker 3: you mean.
Speaker 2: An episode?
Speaker 5: That's how he tells a.
Speaker 2: Story, and you know what's not bad about it?
Speaker 4: Actually?
Speaker 1: What do you mean?
Speaker 2: I love it?
Speaker 1: I love you. That's great. I would also love her
Speaker 1: mug that says what fuck off on the back. And
Speaker 1: then also, magistrate, I am and also TikTok.
Speaker 2: Book talk stairs actually want merch, that.
Speaker 1: Would be my love. We would love sorry offering me. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's interesting, I love that.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, tell us if you actually would.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Franny and Sammy are frenemies. Yes, because Frannie moved into
Speaker 2: state very soon after you and I became really good friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, so I got to know the timeline.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I think that's why. That's why it's become
Speaker 2: a frenemy situation, because then when Frannie moved into State,
Speaker 2: she was like, well, hang on, who is this new
Speaker 2: best friend you're talking about? Who is this person? And
Speaker 2: she loves our podcast so much that it's actually to
Speaker 2: her chagrin that she does because she didn't want to
Speaker 2: like you, because she's deafly jealous.
Speaker 1: Definitely jealous. It's great. We love that, We love you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for leaving us a beautiful voicemail. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have to look into merch and also one day a
Speaker 1: goddamn live show. Yeah, this is the next voicemail.
Speaker 5: I am reaching out from Tampa, Florida, the home of
Speaker 5: the weird and one full crimes. First of all, Sammy,
Speaker 5: so sorry to hear about your back that I have
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Speaker 5: tried Reformer Pilates changed my life. I cannot recommend it
Speaker 5: highly enough turn out of ten.
Speaker 1: It brings your back back to do it well.
Speaker 5: Also wanted to say, I know a lot of people
Speaker 5: say that they skip the banter in the beginning to
Speaker 5: get to the grizzly crime.
Speaker 1: I'm not a big crime guy.
Speaker 5: I'm actually I get quite squeamish. I don't I don't
Speaker 5: like the crimes that especially gruesome and horror and really
Speaker 5: just in general. H But I love the banter, I
Speaker 5: love the friendship, the pond reprieves, I love the digs
Speaker 5: action it. Actually sometimes I skip the crimes in the middle,
Speaker 5: from the beginning, the intro, and then I skipped all
Speaker 5: the way to the ends and the back up in
Speaker 5: the summary, which I also love, and I skipped all
Speaker 5: the grizzly details. So I just thought I would say
Speaker 5: that not everybody is a freak, and some people actually
Speaker 5: being lovely friends.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I love how did you find Because if you're
Speaker 1: not a true crime person, that is so beautiful that
Speaker 1: you found out the friendship.
Speaker 2: You know what is great as well. So I shared
Speaker 2: on our Instagram today and our stories because one of
Speaker 2: our beautiful listeners, none of the Crime Podcast, one of
Speaker 2: our beautiful listeners, Corey, sent through to me that Tampa
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Speaker 2: be saying Tampa Airport, which apparently ended up being a joke,
Speaker 2: but announced that they were banning Jim Carrey, that they
Speaker 2: were banning people wearing pajamas and crocs. Yes, let's not
Speaker 2: move to Tampa. I think that is so funny that
Speaker 2: there have been two Tampa things. Yes today, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: maybe we should do a live show in Tampa.
Speaker 1: I'd love that. Thank you. Also, Shak is so cool.
Speaker 1: I have never heard that as a name before. That
Speaker 1: is the coolest name. Shake.
Speaker 2: That's my one of my friends who you know, I
Speaker 2: won't I won't dox him, but that's his middle name.
Speaker 1: Really, Oh, that's cool. I think that's a great name.
Speaker 1: I love it. And also like Florida tamp It's so
Speaker 1: cool that we have someone listening all the way, like
Speaker 1: we're recording on a kind of a cold day in
Speaker 1: Melbourne right now, and it's so nice to know that
Speaker 1: there's people like in Scotland, in Glasgow listening. There's people
Speaker 1: in the UK listening. There's there's just so many people
Speaker 1: all around the world, and that just brings us so
Speaker 1: much joy and also someone because we, let's be real,
Speaker 1: we put a lot of work into researching and going
Speaker 1: through these crimes, so I love it. We do not
Speaker 1: have a discussion up top. We never have any meetings,
Speaker 1: so we actually really do appreciate that this one is
Speaker 1: from our friend Penelope.
Speaker 3: Him, Sammy and g Penelope here first time speak pipe
Speaker 3: and just listening to Elizabeth Smart episode and talking about
Speaker 3: going to five. I am so goddamn excited. I've actually
Speaker 3: bought myself two tickets that I might have nobody to
Speaker 3: go with. So my plan is to train up my
Speaker 3: nine year.
Speaker 2: Old water color and shep bloody love it.
Speaker 3: Also another little random thing for you, every time you
Speaker 3: guys speak to Sammy's Google it sends off my car twist,
Speaker 3: so I can keep listening to your podcast. I just
Speaker 3: thought that was quite funny.
Speaker 1: I wanted to share.
Speaker 3: But anyway, I keep doing.
Speaker 2: What you're doing.
Speaker 3: I love listening and chatsoo Penelope.
Speaker 2: So I forgot to give an update on my five situation.
Speaker 2: So if you guys haven't heard the episode where we
Speaker 2: discussed this. I found in my calendar, yes that I'm
Speaker 2: going to the five concert in.
Speaker 1: Melbourne the boy band from you.
Speaker 2: If you're getting but I cannot remember who I'm going with. Yes,
Speaker 2: And I searched my ticket tak and Ticketmaster and I
Speaker 2: don't have the tickets. So I was like, well, this
Speaker 2: is awkward. I've said I'm going with someone, but I've
Speaker 2: forgotten who. I don't know who. The message to be like,
Speaker 2: what do I owe you for the five tickets? So
Speaker 2: I did a shout out on here thinking.
Speaker 1: Or just saying it which friends listen is good? Yes,
Speaker 1: shake does.
Speaker 2: And shake shakes.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: I thought Penelope might have been offering to take me,
Speaker 2: but no nine year old's going. Apparently I still have not.
Speaker 1: Discovered this is the update.
Speaker 2: This is the update that nobody, nobody has claimed. I
Speaker 2: think what has happened is that it has been discussed
Speaker 2: in like a group chat, and I've said yeah, I'll go,
Speaker 2: and I've just put it in my calendar, and then
Speaker 2: no one's actually gone and bought the ticket, and.
Speaker 1: You know what, it's unlikely to put something in your calendar.
Speaker 1: So I'm actually proud of you. Especially like that far
Speaker 1: in advance because you ignore.
Speaker 2: Thing, yes, my tickets and forget to put in a calendar.
Speaker 2: I've done the absolute opposite.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredible. Well it's not incredible. Incredible. Well, you've
Speaker 1: got a new friend that's going Penelope is.
Speaker 2: Taking a daughter.
Speaker 1: Yeah whatever, Penelope, that's even known your daughter, Penelope, Penelope.
Speaker 1: That is so cool. And I've got to did we
Speaker 1: tell that funny story about what happens with my voice activated?
Speaker 1: Do we tell that on the podcast?
Speaker 2: When I the time that we did, but if if
Speaker 2: we did, it was ages tell it again?
Speaker 1: No, no, you tell it. I think it's funny.
Speaker 2: It's really funny. So Sammy was telling me a story
Speaker 2: about it. Anyway, Sammy was telling me a story about
Speaker 2: how on his other.
Speaker 1: Podcast, Confessions Available.
Speaker 2: In All the Affessions Available in all the apps, do
Speaker 2: you want me to use the real name?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Whatever, Sure, So someone who'd written in a confession was
Speaker 2: called Gemma, and so on the podcast, Sammy made a
Speaker 2: joke and said, hey, sirih call and I'm not going
Speaker 2: to do it now again the name, and then Siri
Speaker 2: tried calling his ex girlfriend the phone.
Speaker 1: The next Holy shit, I had to pause the podcast.
Speaker 1: I had to run just to save myself because as
Speaker 1: soon as the phone rings, really it's calling two times,
Speaker 1: they get it.
Speaker 2: Oh, they see the miscalled. But then Sam is telling
Speaker 2: me that that happened, and it did it.
Speaker 1: Again in another room, in another room. I had to
Speaker 1: run to the other room.
Speaker 2: And I've never seen your face drop like that. You
Speaker 2: look like you're about to vomit. And it is so
Speaker 2: much funnier that she would have got two missed calls
Speaker 2: over a couple of days.
Speaker 1: I know, Oh my god, it was so funny anyway,
Speaker 1: So that's just a funny thing. Hey, Penelope, we bloody
Speaker 1: love you, and we love everyone that leaves us. Goddamn voicemails.
Speaker 1: How about this one? Another one that comes from Sarah.
Speaker 6: My god, hi guys, it's Sarah Famously there. Who is
Speaker 6: you know, really good friends with Petti Flair Beringer. I
Speaker 6: was just so excited that someone wanted to talk about
Speaker 6: Real Housewives of Melbourne with me, because I could never
Speaker 6: find any other fans To answer George's question. We did
Speaker 6: break up, however, very amicable, and I agree that is
Speaker 6: a huge green flag that he remembered how much I've
Speaker 6: loved Pettiflir. No the thing is, and Sammy, I am
Speaker 6: going to correct you. It's switch Yes, I know, yes,
Speaker 6: now I agree. I don't really know what it is, like,
Speaker 6: what the topic is about. I think she left it
Speaker 6: purposefully open and ended. I do know that there are
Speaker 6: apparently lots of posed photos of Pettiflir.
Speaker 2: In the book, which is like, why not If.
Speaker 6: I was publishing a book, I'd put some photos in
Speaker 6: there too. Now I'm just so excited about this. I've
Speaker 6: done some real boots on the ground journalism here. I
Speaker 6: have ordered the book. I am going to read it
Speaker 6: and come back to you guys. I think this is
Speaker 6: a really imp Okay, okay, okay, we must delve into deeper.
Speaker 6: I want to know what Patti Floir has to say,
Speaker 6: and I want to discuss with you guys.
Speaker 5: Sta tuned.
Speaker 1: Okay, So, Sarah, are two things. I looked this up
Speaker 1: the other day. It is definitely Switched the Bitch, and
Speaker 1: I completely got that wrong. She says swish the bish
Speaker 1: in some episodes, but I think she's quite tipsy in it.
Speaker 1: But okay, sorry, it's called Switch the Bitch. This is
Speaker 1: Petty flu who was a Real Housewives Melbourne. I tried
Speaker 1: to order it the other day. It is one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty dollars. I think maybe more.
Speaker 2: No, it was three hundred and four.
Speaker 1: It was three hundred and forty dollars, which I think
Speaker 1: is too much for a book, even for a joke.
Speaker 2: Sarah, really, Sarah, you got it for less than that,
Speaker 2: just seeing the look Sam and I gave each other
Speaker 2: when you.
Speaker 1: When you border, I'm going to look it up. So
Speaker 1: I've got it here. It's sweat. I've look my late
Speaker 1: searchers Jim Carey, face and wet screening times for the
Speaker 1: latest Scream film, Switch the Bitch. Petty Flur. Petty Flour
Speaker 1: Bearringer is her name, and I just want to make
Speaker 1: sure that that is correct, because when I looked at
Speaker 1: the other day, Yeah, three hundred and forty dollars. I
Speaker 1: hope you didn't pay three hundred and forty dollars with it.
Speaker 1: And this is also used, so I'm not sure about that.
Speaker 1: Did you buy one. It's also sold by an American
Speaker 1: seller who's in the USA in Boston because actually Real
Speaker 1: Housewives word it's huge.
Speaker 2: The obviously that much the only one. It's the only
Speaker 2: one available on internet. That's obviously why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if Sarah's ordering one, but my formula to
Speaker 1: being the champion, my formula to being the champion of
Speaker 1: your life, not the victim, I don't know why we
Speaker 1: need her to be the champion of our lives. And
Speaker 1: then okay, so this is the this is okay. So
Speaker 1: on the back it says raw, real confronting about the authors.
Speaker 1: We know about Petty Floer. We don't need to read
Speaker 1: about this, but this is the this is the formula. Right.
Speaker 1: The switch to bitch formula is like taking an off
Speaker 1: ramp in a traffic jam, but it's completely but it's
Speaker 1: a completely alternative route you never considered. It releases you
Speaker 1: from all of your frustrations that are grinding you down
Speaker 1: and and wasting your life. Self help needs a swift
Speaker 1: kick and switch the bitch is raisor sharp and ready.
Speaker 1: Switch the bitch is that kick in the pants that
Speaker 1: will not only open your eyes but also open minds.
Speaker 1: Women today don't need any more soft serve affirmations. What
Speaker 1: they need and want is to be empowered with the
Speaker 1: truth because they can handle it and they will handle it.
Speaker 1: Switch the bitch is more than just a catchphrase. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Really, it's a lifestyle game changer. But let's
Speaker 1: be clear, it's a killer catchphrasee catfrage. I'm saying, yes,
Speaker 1: I switch the Bitch, and it's got her on the
Speaker 1: front cover, clicking because I imagine that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I find it so funny Switch the Bitch,
Speaker 1: I and it's not switch the Bitch. I'm so fascinated
Speaker 1: because I still don't understand what it is. I have
Speaker 1: to read the book. Wow, here's another thing. Two options too, right, Sarah,
Speaker 1: I want you every week to read in a part
Speaker 1: of the book and excerpt, and we could do it
Speaker 1: at the end of each episode in the mailbag.
Speaker 2: We need to look into the legalities of that.
Speaker 1: You could read. You could read a bit of.
Speaker 2: A book I Reckon, I reckon every week.
Speaker 1: Threw and forty dolls. You're gonna get your money's worth.
Speaker 1: And I'd also like Petti Fleur to come on the
Speaker 1: podcast and tell us what the book is about.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so do I.
Speaker 1: I just think that'd be great. Just come on and explain,
Speaker 1: just in a part of the end of an episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a crime, but Shake will like that episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, yeah, and also if you do like a
Speaker 1: TikTok dance or something with her, she'd love to come.
Speaker 1: She loves doing TikTok dances. Yes, have you seen her
Speaker 1: Instagram as well?
Speaker 2: You like lip syncing?
Speaker 1: Yes, fantastic stuff. So anyway, it's got a three out
Speaker 1: of five rating, seven ratings. But yeah, three hundred and
Speaker 1: forty dollars or four payments of eighty five dollars if
Speaker 1: you want to if you want to get it.
Speaker 2: Oh, if you look at it that way, yeah, jeep
Speaker 2: eighty five stree, we're about to make banking five million
Speaker 2: dollars each.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so my first purchasers.
Speaker 2: Yes, teeming bed and switchitch to the bitch.
Speaker 1: This comes from Rick. Hey, guys, Rick in that place
Speaker 1: called scum Thorpe in the UK. Yes, you did pronounce
Speaker 1: it right, small small steel town on east side. Anyway,
Speaker 1: still catching up, listen to the Ken McElroy story. Knew
Speaker 1: this one. There is actually a movie on this worth
Speaker 1: watching called Brian Oh sorry, in broad Daylight. It's called
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety ish and the other thing Kim Wall. Since
Speaker 1: when do the Army have submarines? As stated by g Love,
Speaker 1: was absolutely how Lee great show guys as always from
Speaker 1: across the pond Rick exit.
Speaker 2: Thanks Rick. Look if there is anything that was clear
Speaker 2: in the Kim and I have absolutely no knowledge of
Speaker 2: summary five meters long every time.
Speaker 1: We got this one from Olli. This is a comment
Speaker 1: on the latest episode Channe of Matthews. The class system
Speaker 1: you mentioned, which was written in law was the feudal system.
Speaker 1: Leftovers today include the king landowner's House of Lords, etc.
Speaker 1: Not written in law anymore, but very much still the
Speaker 1: vibe times and I love this one. This comes from
Speaker 1: another Sammi. Hi Sammy, follow Sammy checking in. Not having
Speaker 1: Instagram right now makes me feel like a seventy year
Speaker 1: old grandma emailing her grandchildren instead of being able to
Speaker 1: DM like a normal thirty something below found on Reddit
Speaker 1: for Georgia. Tampa International Airport. I've seen enough, We've had enough.
Speaker 1: It's time to ban at Tampa International Airport. After successfully
Speaker 1: banning crocs and giving everyone the amazing opportunity to experience
Speaker 1: the world's first CROs free airport, it's time to take
Speaker 1: an even larger attack to take on and even larger crisis.
Speaker 1: Pajamas at the airport in the middle of the day.
Speaker 1: We know this decision could be disruptive to someone in
Speaker 1: your life. It's time to have a difficult conversation with them.
Speaker 1: You can do this. We and Phoebe believe in you.
Speaker 1: The madness stops today. The movement starts now. Help Tampa
Speaker 1: International Airport become the world's first CROs free and pajama
Speaker 1: free airport. Do your part. Say no to pajamas at TPA. Yeah,
Speaker 1: isn't that grassy?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: You love it because you don't want people to wear
Speaker 1: goddamn pajamas at the airport, or.
Speaker 2: Like the Bogan like oversized.
Speaker 1: No, I'm a Bogan.
Speaker 2: No, you're not.
Speaker 1: I am a Bogan, and I am proud of being
Speaker 1: a God.
Speaker 2: I've got nothing. I know, I don't have anything against Bogans.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, don't wear the Bogan track suit pans.
Speaker 1: Yes, the airport. Oh god, anyway.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's very funny.
Speaker 1: Yes, very funny stuff. Tampa guys, I think this is
Speaker 1: time and you've got a great friend there. Yes, I know,
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: Shake with me?
Speaker 1: Oh, shake absolutely? Would? Can I tell you this right now?
Speaker 1: Fat check? Quick fact check? You know we like our
Speaker 1: fat check?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Why is the show dateline? Called date line Gay. The
Speaker 1: TV show date Line is named after the journalistic term
Speaker 1: for the line at the beginning of a news story
Speaker 1: that indicates the date and location where it was reported.
Speaker 1: This title reflects the show's original broader focus on investigative
Speaker 1: reporting and breaking news, highlighting its purpose of delivering detailed,
Speaker 1: location based stories.
Speaker 2: Oh we just call that a location super or a
Speaker 2: date super dates. In Australia, that's what we call it,
Speaker 2: because a super is like yeah, when there's like the
Speaker 2: like someone's title under yes, when they came up their name,
Speaker 2: their title is called a super. So in Australia we
Speaker 2: call that a location or.
Speaker 1: Date super not for a show.
Speaker 2: Date super is actually a great name for maybe like
Speaker 2: a dating show.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, but this is date super Dates, super Line,
Speaker 1: Dates super Workshop.
Speaker 2: It's still yeah TM, the reality TV dating show Dates
Speaker 2: Super Super.
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll leave to We forgot to leave it off.
Speaker 1: I've written a little something for the end of the
Speaker 1: podcast today.
Speaker 2: Okay, here we go.
Speaker 1: For decades, the elastic face of the legendary comedian, comedian
Speaker 1: and actor has been one of the most recognizable faces
Speaker 1: in Hollywood. It's stretched, twisted, and contorted through films like
Speaker 1: The mask as Dan Surer and Dumb and Dumber, becoming
Speaker 1: us of exaggerated comedy itself. But in early twenty twenty six,
Speaker 1: that same famous face became the subject of an unusual controversy,
Speaker 1: one that blended Internet conspiracy, celebrity culture, cosmetic speculation, and
Speaker 1: a viral mystery that briefly convinced part of the Internet
Speaker 1: that the real Jim Carey had been replaced. What began
Speaker 1: as a routine awards appearance spiraled into a strange modern
Speaker 1: media spectacle. The controversy began after Kerry made a rare
Speaker 1: public appearance at the twenty twenty six SISA Awards in Paris,
Speaker 1: where he accepted an honorary war. Soon after, images from
Speaker 1: the ceremony circulated online, some viewers claimed the actor looked unrecognizable,
Speaker 1: sparking speculation across social media about what had changed in
Speaker 1: his appearance. A smoother forehead, a tier jaw line, slight
Speaker 1: changes around the eyes, overall facial proportions appearing different from
Speaker 1: earlier photos. The changes led to a flaw of theories,
Speaker 1: some of flood imit. The changes led to a flood
Speaker 1: of theories, some maintain others wildly conspiratorial. Within hours of
Speaker 1: the photos going viral, Internet forums and social media users
Speaker 1: began circulating a bizarre claim the man at the awards
Speaker 1: ceremony was not Jim Carey. Some commentator suggested a body
Speaker 1: double had appeared in his place, while others promoted even
Speaker 1: stranger ideas that Carey had been replaced or cloned. The
Speaker 1: rumors were fueled by screenshots comparing images from the nineteen
Speaker 1: nineties with photographs from the twenty twenty six event, which
Speaker 1: is stupid. Users focused on differences in eye color, facial structure,
Speaker 1: smile lines, hair texture. At the center of the viral
Speaker 1: speculation was a social media post from British makeup and
Speaker 1: prosthetics artist Alexis stone.
Speaker 2: I called it excess a drag queen. I didn't know
Speaker 2: if you didn't know that a drag queen or just prosthetic.
Speaker 1: Don't know that who implied that he might have impersonated
Speaker 1: Kerry using elaborate prosthetics. The suggestion, likely intended as a
Speaker 1: stunt or a joke, only intensified the conspiracy theories the
Speaker 1: cosmetic surgery speculation. While conspiracy theories spread online, some observers
Speaker 1: proposed a more plausible explanation. Cosmetic procedure. Yeah, Several plastic
Speaker 1: surgeons interviewed by entertainment outlets suggested the actor's appearance might
Speaker 1: be the result of facial rejuvenation work. Possible procedures mentioned
Speaker 1: included a brow lift, eyelid surgery, botox injections, fat transfer,
Speaker 1: laser resurfacing, or facelift techniques. Experts noted that Kerre's smoother
Speaker 1: forehead and raised brow could be consistent with cosmetic treatments,
Speaker 1: though none of the surgeons had examined him personally. Now
Speaker 1: the official is sponsors. As speculation grew, Carey's representatives and
Speaker 1: the awards people stepped in to shut down the more
Speaker 1: extreme claims. His publicists confirmed that Carey personally attended the
Speaker 1: event and accepted the award. The ceremony's general delegate also
Speaker 1: emphasized that the appearance had been planned for months, noting
Speaker 1: that Carey even spent significant time preparing a speech in
Speaker 1: French for the ceremony. He also attended with family, friends,
Speaker 1: and longtime collaborator Michael Gondry, further undermining claims that a
Speaker 1: stand in had appeared in his place. In other words,
Speaker 1: no clone, no impersonator, just Jim Carey. But why did
Speaker 1: this spread so quickly will the power of facial recognition culture.
Speaker 1: Audiences have spent decades watching Carey's face perform exaggerate expressions.
Speaker 1: Even small changes can appear dramatic because people are deeply
Speaker 1: familiar with his features. Social media amplification one conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: are once conspiracy theories begin, and circulating algorithms amplified post
Speaker 1: questioning his identity, meme, culture and satire. Of course, it
Speaker 1: is a huge thing today where they spread so quickly,
Speaker 1: and the celebrity absence is also something as well. Carrey
Speaker 1: has made has appeared in public relatively rarely, I guess
Speaker 1: in recent years, making any new image of him feel
Speaker 1: surprising to fans, which is more of.
Speaker 2: A reason to believe that it is him, because we haven't.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Perhaps the strangest element of the entire controversy is
Speaker 1: that Jim Carey is famous precisely because of how much
Speaker 1: he can manipulate his face from the rubber like contortions
Speaker 1: of the mass of the cartoonish reactions in eighth Agira.
Speaker 1: His career was built on transforming his facial expressions into
Speaker 1: surreal comedy. Decades later, the Internet briefly concluded that the
Speaker 1: face itself had become too strange to be real conclusion.
Speaker 1: In the end, that Jim Carey faced controversy turned out
Speaker 1: not to be a crime or a scandal or a
Speaker 1: Hollywood conspiracy, just a collision between aging speculation and the
Speaker 1: Internet's tendency to invent mysteries and also go the fuck
Speaker 1: over the line. But it did produce one oddly fitting outcome.
Speaker 1: The man once famous for playing characters who could transform
Speaker 1: their faces at will, accidentally convince the Internet that someone
Speaker 1: else was wearing his, which, for a comedian whose career
Speaker 1: was built on absurdity, may be the most Jim Carrey
Speaker 1: ending possible.
Speaker 5: Yeah that was great fun.
Speaker 1: Isn't that fun?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: My god?
Speaker 1: Would you like to tell me a poetry? Pea for time?
Speaker 2: Okay, this one came up at work the other day.
Speaker 2: So it's top of mind when people use the word
Speaker 2: bunker or the term we need to bunker down.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's hunker down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, bunker down is acceptably because bums down.
Speaker 1: Then I didn't want to say that.
Speaker 2: So bunker down has become an acceptable use because so
Speaker 2: many people said that that all means like bunker down
Speaker 2: is in like like stay inside and don't, but hunker down.
Speaker 2: Is the term? Is the correct term?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: And it was someone else at work the other day
Speaker 2: that actually said that's a pet peeve of mine, and
Speaker 2: I was like, aha, I can add it to the
Speaker 2: list of mine. But I don't want to do too
Speaker 2: many grammar ones because I just.
Speaker 1: Bring them anyway. What's your mine is bloody? When it
Speaker 1: is I'll tell you this, I do not like the
Speaker 1: weather when it is like it's it's rainy, but it
Speaker 1: is what's the word like misty rain, not not misty,
Speaker 1: but when it's kind of muggy, mugg Yeah, humid, humidity, humid.
Speaker 2: You know where's humid that Tampa, Florida.
Speaker 1: Oh, we will still go, but but yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: like it when it's rainy and you kind of look
Speaker 1: outside and you're like, oh, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna human, it's going to be cool. It's going to
Speaker 2: be called the human.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of gross when it's raining and it's
Speaker 1: really humored. And I think this week, in particular, with
Speaker 1: my back and everything, I've been walking around in this
Speaker 1: humid kind of hate and Melbourne's raining the only scenes
Speaker 1: in one day.
Speaker 2: A hilarious stuff. The only good thing about Melbourne's weather
Speaker 2: is that it's not humid. Yes, you're not used to it,
Speaker 2: and it occasionally is it's very fair.
Speaker 1: All four scenes in one day.
Speaker 2: Ah, hilarious, hilarious, hilarious. I like it. I like that.
Speaker 2: I agree with the Poordrey Peeve yeap.
Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me say that. And also, can
Speaker 1: I say a little bit of a teaser, few lovely people.
Speaker 1: We will soon be recording an episode, not with Diggs,
Speaker 1: who's sleeping right next to you right now peacefully, but
Speaker 1: with a young Poetry who is about to be a
Speaker 1: year older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to record at my house on Poetry.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a full episode, and you guys see
Speaker 1: Poetry on the YouTube dot com. But also you can
Speaker 1: hear her throughout the podcast because Poort is yappy as
Speaker 1: and we love that about her. So we do an
Speaker 1: episode with Poudry. It's about time, That's what I'm saying
Speaker 1: right now. It's about bloody time, and goes to a
Speaker 1: doting digs real quick, Yeah, go on, I so bad back, right,
Speaker 1: bad back. I've been real kind of oh god and
Speaker 1: all gold and I thought I tapped on my Mikey card,
Speaker 1: which if you're in the UK's and Oyster cards. In
Speaker 1: Sydney is the Opal cards. So it's just a New
Speaker 1: York it's the Metro in in everywhere else in the world,
Speaker 1: it's just on a goddamn phone. But in Melbourne you
Speaker 1: have to have a goddamn physical card that you top
Speaker 1: up anyway. I always touch on and I always touch off.
Speaker 1: You have to do that in Melbourne. It's really annoying.
Speaker 1: But when you're going through the station, you have to
Speaker 1: do that anyway. Flinder Street station is a huge station
Speaker 1: which has all these I say cards, but they have
Speaker 1: all these undercover inspectors. They have these ticket inspectors that
Speaker 1: just line up and they wait for you to have
Speaker 1: a problem with your card, and then they take you
Speaker 1: on real quickly and they find you something like one
Speaker 1: hundred and forty dollars. I had a really bad bag
Speaker 1: and I got out my Mikey card, my key to
Speaker 1: the city and I can go anywhere baby, and I
Speaker 1: grabbed it and I topped it up, and I thought
Speaker 1: that I touched on. I obviously didn't touch on. I
Speaker 1: got to Flinders Street Station and I realized I didn't
Speaker 1: touch on. I went to tap my card and it
Speaker 1: went did not touch on, and it went to two
Speaker 1: inspectors looked at me and a man who I say
Speaker 1: hello to every single day. He's an older man that
Speaker 1: works there and just a random aunt station. He works there.
Speaker 1: He just helps customers where they're going and everything. He goes,
Speaker 1: what do I do to you, mate? And I went, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just having a really bad week. And I thought
Speaker 1: I touched on, but I didn't. He goes, I see
Speaker 1: you every day and he let me out and he goes,
Speaker 1: have a great day, and I said you too, and
Speaker 1: I went and I spoke to his manager when I
Speaker 1: went back at the end of the day, and I said,
Speaker 1: this guy, like, he's just incredible and he always smiles
Speaker 1: at me every day. He's a lovely He's an older
Speaker 1: guy that's just there and he just helps people where
Speaker 1: they're going and he can get you in and get
Speaker 1: you out and everything.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, blead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, lovely man. And it just made my day because
Speaker 1: not only did I not have a one hundred and
Speaker 1: forty all a fine, but also it was just a
Speaker 1: nice experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he should come on our radio show as well.
Speaker 2: And also because he deserves five million dollars.
Speaker 1: A year, he does he deserves five million dollars.
Speaker 2: Oh that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my don't digs for this week. Something nice
Speaker 1: to say, because you're always so angry with your board,
Speaker 1: repeat you just something nice to say about anyone.
Speaker 2: I didn't plan.
Speaker 1: No, if you didn't plan something, yes, planned, something nice
Speaker 1: to say, I didn't plan. Something nice to say, Well,
Speaker 1: you gotta plan. Something nice to say. Yeah, don say
Speaker 1: had a nice experience recently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have nice experiences daily.
Speaker 1: Name one of them.
Speaker 2: My friend Harrow at work got me a coffee today.
Speaker 1: Oh that's nice. Thanks Harrow already shouted it. That is beautiful.
Speaker 1: Oh God, thank you harroh for providing g love with
Speaker 1: a beautiful coffee.
Speaker 2: All right, let's stop record. We've been recording for so long.
Speaker 1: Okay, I've had a lovely time though, sell Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: everyone will see you this Thursday for another episode. Share
Speaker 1: this podcast with a friend. Please please do follow us
Speaker 1: on social media. We bloody love it. Leave us a
Speaker 1: five star review, leave us five star rating. Thank you
Speaker 1: to Oliver Clark for writing the music, Thank you to
Speaker 1: Tams and Hayes for doing the artwork. And as we
Speaker 1: always see on this goddamn podcast, for Franny TikTok book
Speaker 1: Touchstairs