WEBVTT - Besty Faria 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:04.320 On a cold night in twoenty and eleven, in a 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:08.680 modest Missouri home, lay the body a Betsy Faria, a 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:13.440 loyal wife, devoted mother, and lover of life itself. She 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:17.680 had been stabbed more than fifty times, later determined as 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:23.120 fifty six. Many of these wounds inflicted post mortem a 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.640 frenzied violent attack. All signs pointed to her husband, Russ, 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.160 who was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.600 We've given away the ending, or but you the true. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.440 Story wouldn't be uncovered for years after this. The story 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.480 is in fact stranger than fiction. This is the case 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:44.880 a Betsy Foraria. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:54.959 Oh okay, just go. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.720 Hey there, everybody, welcome to not Another crime podcast. 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:13.679 I'm Georgia Lowe. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:14.800 I'm Sammy Peterson. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:15.640 I'm a journalist. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:17.920 I am not. But I'll tell you what if you 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.640 want to skip ahead and just listen to the story, 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.640 the time code is below in the show notes. Gee, love, 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:26.080 how the heck are you? 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:28.000 I am good? 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:33.880 Oh goodness, your new new season of your podcast, Everyone 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:35.880 has an X launch Today podcast. 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.120 Thank you very much. Yes. The day of recording this 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.240 episode one of season eight of Everyone Has an X 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.200 is out. Yeah, so it's all happening the next ten weeks. 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.120 So good. It's a great first episode. 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:50.440 Oh, thanks to you much. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.000 I loved it so good. Yeah, so interesting. I love that, 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.320 really really good story. It doesn't go in a way 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:57.680 that you expect, that's right. 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.800 We like a twist, so yeah. I mean, I've banged 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.880 on about it on here before, but if anyone hasn't 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.560 heard or wants to just hear it again. It's a 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:13.120 documentary style podcast, so every episode is a standalone story 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.600 where it is somebody telling their story about an X. 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.079 So sometimes they have stories about the breakup, about who 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:25.680 the X is, or has become traumatic thing that happened, 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.040 a funny thing that happened, anything involving an egg, and 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.280 I narrate little bits throughout. 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.200 It's so good. It's like a proper documentary. It's so good, 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.560 very well, very well done, and highly recommend it. And 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.200 I'll say right now as well. A new episode of 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:44.080 my other podcast, Confessions, which has come back is every 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.799 month it's come out with Christi Will and Brown and 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.160 Emily Tanya on this podcast. I see on this podcast 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.760 before it was Genevieve Morrison, Christi Will and Brown. I lied, 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.160 I told a fibb. Genevieve pulled out and guess who's 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:01.600 nice one. Emily Tiny swooped in for the cher's one 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:02.600 of the funniest people. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.360 It is such a great episode. 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:09.120 Oh my god. Okay, it's just that it's fun. Okay, 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:10.760 it's parenting. 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:14.880 Boys will be boys. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:15.400 We'll be boys. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:20.120 Yeah, that episode. Christy and Emily together are so funny. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.760 So funny, so I love they're so good together. I'm 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:27.760 recording another one this weekend with a great Gareth Reynolds, 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.600 which will be lots of fun over over on the lines. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:33.360 I don't know how he's saying it, but zoom dot 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.760 com or something with that intwebs and during the Melbourne 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.600 International Comedy Festival, if you're around, I'm doing two live shows, 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.800 one with Christopher Hall, Reuben Kate and Nick Cody and 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.360 the other one Myth Warhurst, Joel Creasy and Will Anderson. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:53.280 Stop fun. Is that what line? Republic? Incredible stuff. 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:54.640 You've got some good friends. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:56.640 Yeah, and I'll tell you what. Thank you everyone for 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.120 all the wonderful comments about my back this week. I've 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.400 had so many lovely people checking in about my back. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.520 I've only had to cancel like two gigs but I 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.440 have canceled two gigs because of my back, and it's 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.000 been kind of an interesting time because I've been fascinated 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.040 by Jim Carey's face. So I've been I've had said yea, 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.159 I have had we I'm going to talk about this, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.640 but I have had so much time just looking at 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.280 a photo of Jim Carrey's face and comparing photos, which means, 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:25.480 you know, in the New Age, you have to have 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.840 one phone and one iPad or two phones to double check. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.000 It's the only way. But I've been so obsessed with 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.919 Jim Carrey's face. I think it's just Jim Carey. But 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.320 I love all of the internet slew thing. I love 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.839 people going is it a So first it was a 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.320 is it an impersonator? That was one thing because I 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.320 was like, well, Jim Carrey's kind of retired, why would 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.080 he go to an award ceremony? Is it Jim Carrey, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.920 Jim Carrey. I don't know, is it carry? Yeah? But 0:04:54.440 --> 0:05:01.599 I just found because some people say Jim Carrey, Jim Carrey. 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.480 It might be you know, like an American. 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:02.760 We're talking about the Grinch. 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:08.200 And the mask and. 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.600 I'm not green thing, but I am. I've always been 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.000 a big fan of Jim Carrey, and he's had a 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.000 time away from the spotlight, and it is so funny 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.360 to watch people. There's been like people has a mask 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:18.440 been made? 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.320 A drag queen came out and said that was me 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.880 in costume. And this drag queen has done like full 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:31.359 blown like impersonator stuff before where like they've looked like 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:35.680 completely looked like someone else. But that has been dispelled, Yes, 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:36.200 I believe. 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.640 And the thing about Jim Carrey is as well as 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.839 Jim Curry or whatever the Grench is that John Jim Currah. 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:47.279 The thing about John Currah he always has been a 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:50.040 bit outside the box, see in his thinking and everything. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.640 And there's a film called Man on the Moon, which 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.560 I think is his best film. He is so good 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.040 in it. And in the film he plays an old 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:02.120 comedian it's a true story and Hoffman but in the 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.080 film he went kind of mad becoming the character and 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.560 just became Andy Kaufman for a long time. And and 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.600 so Andy Kaufman played a character called Tony Clifton. And 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.560 so Jim Carey once went to the he was invited 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.920 to go to the what is it, the Playboy bunny 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:25.360 House or something pictures. I don't need to look at 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.640 pictures real quick, but you know, so he was invited 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:29.880 to go there, but he dressed up as Tony Clifton 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:31.960 and they're like, oh my god, So Jim Carey is 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:36.240 really quirking everything. Paul Gi Maddy actually dressed up as that, 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.520 pretending to be Jim Carrey playing Tony. So he has 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:44.160 had so many different moments where you go, is that real? 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.479 Isn't that real? And there's a great documentary on that 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.600 whole experience. I think it's called Man on the Moon 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.080 and it is incredible. It's by Spike Jones and it's 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.760 just an amazing documentary to look into what became of 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.120 him at that time becoming that character. It's fascinating and 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.360 you get in that in that perspective, you go, oh, 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.120 I think Jim Carey has gone a bit kind of 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.680 loopy and over time and everything, there's been a lot 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.239 going on. We could probably do a true crime episode 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.040 about Jim Garrey, but there's been a lot. There's been 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.240 a lot of things happen. So I am really fascinated 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:14.560 with this story. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.400 If he's kind of done it on purpose to people, Well, 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.760 when I first heard people saying, Oh, it's not him, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.120 it's impersonator, it's a clone or something. I was like, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.120 he's just had work and like we just don't see 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.320 much anymore. The two things I find strangers that his 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.840 eye color is completely different, yes, yep. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.760 And piercing brown eyes. 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.560 Yes, yes, piercing brown as they say, as the old 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.360 brown eye, your brown eye. 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.240 Oh yes, looking in. 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.480 Your big brown Ah. That's yucky. Sorry if you think 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.840 about it like that. And the way he's speaking is 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.880 very kind of over the top Jim Carey, yes, which 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.760 can feel like it's someone impersonating him, but yeah, I 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.240 wonder if that's him, do it as almost alrighty? 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.920 Then it's a lot of like yeah. And there's a 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.640 really funny woman on on TikTok that looks like Jim 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.920 Carrey and she is so funny about it and leans 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.800 into that, leans into it so much. It's so funny 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:17.600 to find out what her name is, and I'll try 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.880 and find it because it's so so funny. But I 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:21.720 would also like to say, apart from all the Jim 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.680 Carey stuff, at a very funny moment that happened at 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.800 work today, yes, where I've had a really busy week 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.160 at work means working a lot of late nights and everything. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.079 And I have found that, you know, when you write 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:36.760 something and you go, oh shit, like I need to 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.040 take it is to be forty words and it's it's 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.760 one hundred words or something. There's a great thing on 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.959 Microsoft Teams. On Microsoft Teams it's called co pilot. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.920 Is this bonds. I have to say non non spon. 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.160 Con And all you have to do is you type 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.920 in rewrite this to forty words, right, That's all you 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:57.679 have to write. Right. So I was doing this and 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.520 I was going, oh shit, okay, rewrite that to four words, right, 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.000 And I was just doing it all day. Is like 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:03.959 filling out all this stuff, going ok shit, I've got 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:05.240 to do that. I got to do that. To do that, 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:11.160 co pilot looks quite similar to teams. So I messaged 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.800 one of the directors of the companies and wrote, rewrite 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.200 this and then pasted this stuff. He sent it back. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:18.800 Stop he rewrote. 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.079 It and it's not even like, hey, so and so, 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.240 could you please do you have time to rewrite this? 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.880 Oh my god to one of the directors of the 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:28.599 company and he goes, hey, Sammy, of course, and he 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:30.600 wrote it back and he sent it to me. That's 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.120 some big rewrite this, that's what I don't have anything 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:34.560 better to do. 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:35.800 Some BD from you. 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.880 It was very good and it's like you've just. 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.920 Said, you've just made it to rewrite that Is that 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:43.120 going to change the way you. 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.280 I'm wide yes, everyone, because you're always very story this 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:49.880 year take them on the store this week. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.160 This year, I'll do all the stories. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.440 Okay, okay, forty words and forty words or less. Please. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.000 That was a fun little thing that happened this week. Powerful. 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.760 I did feel very power, felt very beautiful as well. 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.000 You look beautiful as well, so I'm glad you feel it. 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:05.680 Yeah, I feel that. 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.360 Is it that detail you have on your mirror that says, girl, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:10.240 you look amazing? 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.760 Yes? Yes, And it's got the clicks that automate. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.319 that's well just click click. 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:16.680 You know. 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.080 I have tried to find a door bell that does 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:25.400 the hell oh yeah perform. It doesn't seem to exist 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.920 on the interweb, which I find strange. So if anyone 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:33.000 has found one who knows how to invent them, please. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.840 Let me know. Yeah. Has your week been You've been good? 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.839 Yes, it has been good. It's been a big week 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:40.360 in the media. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:41.719 World in Australia. 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:43.640 We did just talk about that. 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.120 In Melbourne recently. Jim Carrey got mistake. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.280 No, I you know, I work in radio and. 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.720 The if. 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.960 You well, I think they're no. Yeah, if you're start 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:02.760 interrupting me. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:09.760 The biggest media deal ever made in Australia was to 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.600 a radio duo called Kyle and JACKIEO who have been 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.320 working together as a radio duo for twenty. 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.079 Seven years, a long time, and two years ago they 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:24.920 signed a reported two hundred million dollar ten year contracts, 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.520 so ten million dollars each every year for ten years. 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.360 Well that's all gone to shit because they've had. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.559 It just wild after twenty seven years wild. 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.520 They've don't need to go into the details here, you 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:39.760 can google it if you want, but they had they've 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:44.200 had a falling out and the show has split and 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.280 right now in the middle of kind of working out 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.400 what they do if either of them or both of 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.440 them stay at the network or but they're not a 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:55.200 duo any longer. So I thought our dear listeners could 0:11:55.280 --> 0:12:00.600 help us tissue great idea for Georgia and Sammy in 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:01.640 the mornings. 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.200 In the morning. Yeah, I think they should be the 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.760 new Wrecky duo is great. I can say some shocking 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:10.640 things and you can go you can't say that. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.480 Yes, yet, very similar to what they have done for 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.240 twenty seven years. That's good and you are a real. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.520 Shock job shock and I love to shock whatever that 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.000 That sounds a bit like I'm sure about that food. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.120 Yeah that is interesting, Okay, Yeah, I'm fascinated by that, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.280 and I want to know all the details as they unfurl, 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.600 because we have had they've just been around for so long. Yeah, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.480 you will never expect. 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.280 Nineteen ninety nine they first started. 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.679 Yeah, who are you know? Alleged like that? The show 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.600 is quite it can be quite vile and everything it 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.000 can be. It is very shocking. So it is really 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.400 interesting after twenty seven years to have a fallout. I 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.200 think that is fascinating. So we will do it, and 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.920 we will do it for one hundred million dollars for 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.640 exactly slashing the price. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:00.640 Literally half price. 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.839 That is a good five million year each. Yes, Oh, 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.719 by dig something nice. Don't worry about that. You get 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:07.640 another big bed. 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:08.680 Another big bed. 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:09.319 I don't mind. 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.600 I had, you know, like Facebook, you get like timu 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.760 ads and something it thinks you want to buy it 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.520 came up with a huge, huge, huge, big, like like 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.680 the dog bed you've got for Dick, but bigger and 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.240 with one half of it is like a sleeping bag, 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.080 so the human can sleep in the sleeping bag and 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:32.880 coddle the dog in the bed together. 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.720 See if I if I had five million a year, 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.320 there'd be signs and that would be that would be me. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.560 I don't have my own bed anymore. I sleep with 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:48.120 digs from him with your five million signed the check 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.680 and I go, I'll be on. I don't worry about me. HeiG, 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.000 are you ready for the story this? I am. 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:55.200 You're doing another one. 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.480 For one for you, But I want to say, real 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.920 damn quick, if you could share this podcast with a friend, 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.199 that would help us so bloody much. What'll we do 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:06.600 on the mail bag at the end where you can 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.920 write to us? Yes, Sammy at just Another company dot 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.880 com dot au. If you're a write to us. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.720 You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Not 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.320 Another Crime Podcast. You can watch our episodes on YouTube. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:22.000 Hey follow us there as well. Not Another Crime Podcast, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.840 And please do follow us on your favorite podcast app, 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.600 and please leave a five star rating, and please leave 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.560 a lovely review and what pleased to as your friend? 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.880 And you know what, girlfriend? You can also send us 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.440 a voicemail that is called a speak live and the 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.120 link is below. Everything you need is in the show 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.120 notes and more and more. Maybe there's a Jim Carey 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.840 look alike. That's a woman in there. Now. I don't know. 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.000 I can't look into the future like that I can, 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.080 and what's there? I refuse to tell you, oh my god, 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.040 because you know I probably didn't do it when I edited. Hey, 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.360 everybody enjoy this, well you want to enjoy it, but 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.760 it is an very interesting case this week. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:03.720 Yes, and the experience. 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.840 And if you don't already know this episode, it is 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.280 the story. Oh well, yeah, if you don't already know 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.080 this story, it is a bloody doo. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.560 A bloody do, a bloody enjoy. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:26.080 Sometimes reality doesn't just imitate fiction, it outshines it, twisting 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.720 in ways that no novelist could invent. The story of 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:34.320 Betsy Faria begins in such a place, a quiet Midwestern 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.240 town where neighbors wave polightly across the white picket fences, 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.640 where life moves slowly, measured by the rhythm of work, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:47.920 church and family dinners. But Beneath that serene surface, a 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:53.440 mystery was brewing, one that would confound investigators, divide a community, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.280 and read like something stranger than fiction. A woman, devoted 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.480 mother and nurse would vanish not into the wilderness, but 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.320 into the shadows of a world she thought she knew, 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:09.400 a world where betrayal, suspicion, and secrets lay quietly waiting 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.800 to surface. It was a case that proved the truth 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.680 can be more shocking than any story you've ever read, 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.680 because in the end, reality doesn't play by the rules 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:26.520 of storytelling. Stranger than fiction describes events or situations so odd, unlikely, 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.440 or astonishing that they seem more plausible in an invented 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:31.760 story than in real life. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:38.160 But sometimes fiction is also strained, like Stuart Little, because 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.840 if you think about that a small mouse being in 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:46.160 a human orphanage and being chosen to be adopted by 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:47.760 human parents in the stead. 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:48.640 O, that's also an odd story. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.480 I'm not saying, is this one weirder than that? 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:51.280 Weirder than that? 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.200 Okay, we'll see. 0:16:53.960 --> 0:17:00.120 It implies that reality has produced coincidences, ironies, or occurrences 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:05.879 that exceeded the inventiveness or believability of fiction, often heightening 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:13.359 the unexpected, surreal or paradoxical nature of actual experience. For 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.879 police investigating this crime, it seemed like a perfectly open 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.439 and shutcase, and you'd hardly blame them for thinking that. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.600 Not surprisingly, a frenzied crime is committed by someone the 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:29.480 victim knows, someone that is trusted. On a call December 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.720 night in twenty eleven, the front door of this modest, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:38.800 Missouri home stood unlocked. Inside, Christmas decoration still glowed softly, 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.600 as if waiting for a family that would never return. 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.639 In the living room, Betsy Frea, a devoted mother, a 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:50.239 beloved friend, a woman fighting cancer with quiet determination. She 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.359 had been stabbed more than fifty six times. At the 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.840 time the coroner was examining her. He actually stopped counting, 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.000 Oh my god, this was excessive violence. 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:01.400 Yeah. 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.360 They always say it's like kind of a robbery gone 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.520 wrong or something, So never like that, because these frenzies 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.360 and attacks come from like passion. 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.159 Passion, Yeah, and it drives them. They're obviously thinking about it, 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.720 or it's just an outburst or something. Now, there was 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:20.280 no sign of forced entry, no robbery, no obvious motive 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.920 that made sense. Sounds like the husband, Yeah, exactly, Within hours, 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.360 police zeroed in on the person who should have been 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:32.600 grieving her most, her husband, Russ. The story seems simple, 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.879 too simple. Russ Freer was convicted and sentenced to life 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:37.600 in prison. 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:39.320 I mean, were there any are you going to go 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.160 into it? They're like what they said the mitigating factors were? 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.840 Or well yeah they out there? Yeah? Sorry? The case 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.639 was declared closed. But did the wrong person go away 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.560 for the crime. Betsy Freer's story was far from over, 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.320 because years later, as cracks began to appear in the conviction, 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:02.480 investigators would uncover a trail of life manipulation and another 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.920 dead body, Oh my god, one that suggested Betsy's murder 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.320 was not a tragic crime of passion, but the first 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.359 move in something far darker. And the question everyone would 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.159 soon be asking was not who killed Betsy Farrier? But 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.200 how many lives have been destroyed before the truth finally surfaced? 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.560 G have you heard this case before? 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:26.600 I don't think so well. 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.000 I I a friend of the pot and Lovely listener. 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.440 Ash told me about this one and I have been 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.800 hooked by it. There is a TV show where in 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:40.280 asl Wiga plays a hip part in this Okay, yes, absolutely, fascinating. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.800 That's all I've heard about, like I know that she 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:47.080 did a like a dramatized version of the story. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.800 Betsy Freer was born on March twenty fourth, nineteen sixty nine, 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.880 and from the beginning, she was kind of the person 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.239 who made you feel like you mad it. She had 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:00.879 the ability to make you feel like you were the 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.719 only person in their world, kind of like Diggs right now, 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:09.720 really cuddling. Oh shit, are you okay? 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:21.760 Now? If you keep that in, I do apologize to 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:26.359 the listener for screaming the F word into the microphone. 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.199 Dis is having a very cute cuddle and whacked his 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.840 hand up into my glass of red wine. And that, Sammy, 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:35.520 is why we should always be drinking jam. 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:40.040 That's right, correct. So we're talking about Betsy Afrea. So 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.760 from the beginning, she was the kind of person who 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:44.280 made you feel like you mad it. She had the 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.720 ability to make you feel like you were the only 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.520 person in their world and leave the room brighter than 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:50.359 it was before. 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:51.480 How beautiful. 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.000 She was the absolute party starter, showing up to every 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:59.200 single celebration and would often be the person organizing the event. 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.560 Her laugh was loud and her humor was quick, Betsy 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:07.520 never met a stranger in her life. Betsy lived with 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:13.199 her husband Russ in Troy, Missouri, Troy, Troy, Yeah, and 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.480 her two teenage daughters, Leah and Maria from a previous marriage. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.360 Life was simple and it was full by the day. 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.280 Betsy worked at a local gas station. The hours were 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.320 flexible and she liked getting to know people, so she 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.160 kind of loved it just talking to people day to day. 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.600 Her real passion though, was music. Oh she had her 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:37.600 own DJ business called party Starters. Betsy didn't care what 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.880 kind of event it was, a birthday of backyard barbecue. 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.879 She would always bring the energy. It was kind of 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:48.480 how she connected with people through music. Betsy met Russ 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.080 at a gas station where he was a regular, and 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.119 in true Betsy form, she didn't wait for Russ to 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.160 ask her out. She wasted no time and instead asked him. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:58.080 Out, Queen. 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.480 They just clicked the first state was it a casino. 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:06.040 Russ was a quiet guy who kept to himself and 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.480 loved the tech side of things. Instead, he'd help Betsy 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.399 with her playlists and running the party Starters. Betsy was 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.959 the one who remembered birthdays, planned surprises, and showed up 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.480 when it mattered. When Betsy was diagnosed with breast cancer 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:25.000 in twenty ten, she stayed that way completely. She didn't 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.720 want to be treated any differently and didn't want to 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:31.480 be seen as the victim. She organized fundraisers for others, 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:35.840 attended all important events, and supported other families, and continued 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.200 to fight for her life because it was worth living. 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:44.719 But then in October twenty eleven, she got the worst news. 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.720 The cancer had spread to her liver and it was 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:52.720 now terminal. But even then Betsy didn't stop. She was 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:57.200 strong and unstoppable. Friends helped her get to chemo appointments, 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:01.919 with Betsy planning for the future, making holiday plans, seeing friends, 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.040 and making sure she was making the most of the 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.040 time that she had left. She was, after all, the 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:12.680 party starter. On December twenty seventh, twenty eleven, Betsy had 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:18.040 another round of chemo. Her appointment began just after one pm. 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.840 The treatments were really starting to wear on her. She 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.760 was getting weaker and thinner, but it never stopped Betsy. 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:27.240 On the way home, she actually stopped at her mother's 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:31.159 health a house that's fun for me house. She stayed 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:34.320 for a few hours, catching up and keeping things light. 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:37.639 She was in really good spirits that day, talking about 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:42.040 an upcoming girls trip and New Year's plans. Russ had 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:45.000 planned to pick her up and drive her home to Troy. However, 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:48.719 one of Betsy's former co workers, Pam Hup, insisted on 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:53.639 taking her home instead. Betsy's friend Bobby Junxt had offered 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.440 her a ride, but Pam insisted that she take her instead. 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.320 Pam and Betsy left at around five pm, making a 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.520 walk in the park on the way. Pam then dropped 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:07.600 Betsy at home sometime around seven pm and left shortly 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:12.520 after seven twenty one pm. Betsy's daughter Leah called her, 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:16.119 but it rang out. Betsy very rarely ignored her daughter, 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:21.040 so Leah was immediately worried. Russ had been out for 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:24.240 most of the evening. He had left work at five 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.240 pm to go to his friend Mike Corbyn's place, where 0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:30.159 he spent time with Mike and two other friends playing 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:33.159 board games, watching a couple of films, including Catch Me 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:33.680 If You Can. 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:34.960 What a cool boarder? 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:38.080 Nice just just sitting back playing board games. 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:40.560 We should bring back board game nights. 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:43.959 Absolutely yeah. Your friend Bam always tries to bring out 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:44.879 a board game anywhere we are. 0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:46.720 No, not a board game. She brings out these like 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:49.199 weird question games like cards and stuff. 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:54.000 Yeah, An ordered pizza, right, So Russ left around nine pm, 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:58.040 stopped at Arby's, where the receipt was timestamped at nine 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:02.680 h nine pm. When he arrived home at around nine 0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:08.320 forty pm, something felt really off. The lights were off, 0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:11.880 the front door was unlocked, and everything was eerily quiet. 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:16.320 When he walked into the house, the worst fears were confirmed. 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:19.640 There was Betsy lying dead on. 0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:22.480 The living Yeah, oh god, how awful. 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:24.480 He thought. He kind of thought at first she must 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:28.600 have fallen, but there was blood everywhere, smeared along the 0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:32.280 walls and all over the carpet. A knife was still 0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:35.640 in her neck. Oh god. Her arms and wrists were 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:40.080 covered in defensive wounds. Russ called nine one one, his 0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:45.000 voice trembling. He was sobbing and gasping, stumbling over his words. 0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:48.199 At one point in the nine one one call, he 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:51.480 stated that he thought that Betsy might have actually killed herself, 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.880 which would later be scrutinized. That was an odd thing 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:57.879 to bring up straight away with that many worms that. 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:01.640 I mean, look, devil's adver could hear? I don't think 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:06.160 that you would like look really deeply at the body 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:06.359 of her. 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:09.280 Feel like you've been in such a days as well 0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:11.080 of coming home and seeing your loved one like that. 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:14.920 Yeah, but yeah, a knife in the neck is yeah. 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:18.920 They're not common, No, I wouldn't think. Yeah. When first 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.359 responders arrived just before ten pm, they walked into the 0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:27.919 scene of staggering violence. Officer Christiopher Hollingsworth was one of 0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:29.800 the first on the scene. I think it's a great name, 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:33.600 isn't it. Betsy's body was near the couch. Her limbs 0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:36.680 were twisted in unnatural ways, covered in blood. Oh dear, 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:39.000 she had been stabbed what they thought at the time 0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:42.520 fifty five times, wounds to her chest, arms, neck, and head. 0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:45.720 The tip of the kitchen knife had broken off in 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:46.200 her skull. 0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:47.880 Oh my god. 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:51.440 Blood covered the floor, the walls, and saturated her clothing. 0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:57.440 The attack was frenzied and very personal. Russ was barefoot 0:26:57.480 --> 0:27:00.439 in the kitchen when the officers arrived, still on the 0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:04.719 phone to nine one one, rambling and visibly shaken. To 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:07.639 some of the officers, it looked like he was faking it. 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:10.399 One of the officers said that they thought he was 0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:13.080 putting on a bit of a show. But it was unbelievable. 0:27:14.000 --> 0:27:18.359 There were details that raised immediate suspicions. There were no 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:22.240 signs of forced entry. The family dog was calm and unharmed, 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:25.040 which suggested that whoever came into the house was not 0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:25.919 a stranger. 0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:28.440 I don't know what time it's happened, though. 0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:30.480 I know, I know, but like a dog would kind 0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:32.399 of probably be outside or I don't know if they 0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:34.520 would be around. I don't know. There's something weird about 0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:37.760 I'm betten to be a dog expert. Rustle slippers were 0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:42.880 placed neatly nearby, completely clean. That doesn't look good odd 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:46.400 considering the amount of blood pulled across the floor. Did 0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:48.400 he take the shoes off when he was walking into 0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:52.440 the house? What really happened there? These conditions didn't really 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:55.040 seem consistent with someone who had been who kind of 0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:56.520 just stumbled across a really gruesome sy. 0:27:56.680 --> 0:27:58.600 Yeah when you said he was barefoot, that would make 0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:01.800 me immediately go, yeah, yeah, stumbled across that called name 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:04.159 on one and then just taking your shoes off, Like 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:05.400 why would your mind even be there? 0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:08.439 It did seem a little bit strange. Russ was fully cooperative. 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:11.560 He let officers take his phone and close without resistance. 0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:16.080 He also agreed to take a polygraph test, but as 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:19.280 a night wore on, the shift focused from Russ as 0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:24.720 grieving husband to prime suspect. Russ's clothes were clean. This 0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:28.840 led investigators to believe he staged the scene. Well he 0:28:28.920 --> 0:28:30.640 wasn't there or yeah. 0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:32.560 Yeah, no, they didn't think that. That's the thing, like, 0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:34.240 obviously that's why his clothes were clean. 0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:36.600 Or it wasn't there. I think what they meant is 0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:38.480 even if he kind of leaned over her body or 0:28:38.560 --> 0:28:40.320 something or walked through the walls of blood, there would 0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:40.880 have been some blad. 0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:43.120 I'm thinking you would do that if you found your wife, 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:46.560 like yeah, for surely you'd go to grab might Yeah. 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:49.280 Yeah, So it just seemed really suspicious. The slippers and 0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:51.320 that seemed a bit odd. And they thought that the 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:53.960 nine one one call, which won't play in this but 0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:56.800 you can look it up if you want it is yeah, 0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.720 it's awful, and yeah, and they thought that he was 0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:01.160 kind of being really over the top. 0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:05.360 Isn't it funny though, I'm saying, like the reactions I'm 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:09.080 having are because you've said he was I know, I 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:11.640 know it wasn't him, But if I didn't know that 0:29:11.760 --> 0:29:13.440 I'd be going, Oh, yes. 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:17.880 It's always the husband, which is which is the thing here? 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:21.600 Now, of course it's not always the yes, but that's 0:29:21.640 --> 0:29:22.840 always the first person. 0:29:22.800 --> 0:29:25.200 Always the first person. Yeah, So he took a polygraph 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.800 and he failed. They suggested that maybe he blacked out, 0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:32.800 perhaps he had snapped and just didn't remember. Russ denied 0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:36.840 this and walked them through his timeline once again. Prosecutors 0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:40.000 would later argue that Russ had returned home after spending 0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:43.080 the evening with friends, got into an argument with Betsy, 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:47.480 possibly about money or a failing health, and snapped. They 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:49.760 believed he stabbed her in a fit of rage, then 0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:53.360 cleaned himself up before calling nine one one, and acted 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:57.200 like he kind of stumbled across the body. It was 0:29:57.320 --> 0:30:00.640 also suggested that his friends helped cover for him, or 0:30:00.680 --> 0:30:03.480 that he could have slipped away earlier without anyone noticing 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:07.120 in the night. Police also interviewed other people who had 0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:10.240 seen Betsy that day, including Pam Hupp, who had dropped 0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:13.800 her off. Pam told investigators that when she dropped her off, 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:17.600 she didn't initially go inside, but told them that Betsy 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:19.840 had seemed anxious that day and told her that she 0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:21.080 was fearing for her life. 0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:22.480 Oh my god, hang on, and. 0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:24.480 Would happen and what would kind of happen to her 0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:26.560 daughters if anything happened to her? 0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:27.600 Oh? 0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:31.280 Pam told authorities that Betsy had confided in her that 0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.280 she was actually afraid of Russ and that things at 0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:39.479 home had been extremely tense. Pam's descriptions had confirmed what 0:30:39.560 --> 0:30:43.920 authorities had already been thinking, Especially between Russ's nine one 0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:47.840 one call odd inconsistent comments he was making and the 0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:51.880 frenzied murder singe with clean clothes and slippers, it seemed 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:55.920 sadly like this was an open and shut domestic violence 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:59.960 case that ended with the death of Betsy. On January fourth, 0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:05.600 twenty twelve, Russ was arrested and charged with first degree murder. 0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:11.120 But the truth would come out, but not for ten 0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:14.560 years later. Oh shit, And it is in fact Georgia 0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:19.880 stranger than fiction who The trial began in late twenty thirteen, 0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:25.200 nearly two years after Bets's death. Lincoln County prosecutors argued 0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:27.640 that their marriage had been under strained because of her 0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:31.280 health and that he had lashed out. They I think 0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:33.920 they I think about him as well. He was very quiet, 0:31:34.160 --> 0:31:36.440 very unassuming, and I think people went, oh, it's always 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:38.760 the quiet ones, and they kind of built a case 0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:39.560 around him. 0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:42.440 And I mean the friend Pam's. 0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:45.640 Saying, she scared alive and she. 0:31:45.600 --> 0:31:48.400 Was scared of him. I mean again, if I didn't 0:31:48.440 --> 0:31:49.880 know it wasn't him, I'd. 0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:51.080 Be going, I know, I know. 0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:54.600 Yeah, it's so scary, though, isn't it like so scared? 0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:57.800 Maybe there are lots of others, people who wrongly convicted 0:31:57.800 --> 0:31:58.760 that we've been like, ah. 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:01.640 I know, I know, yeah. Yeah. They also brought him. 0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:04.760 Witnesses to a test that Russ drank too much sometimes 0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:08.280 and that the couple often argued it was nothing too extreme, 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:11.080 but just enough to paint the picture of the tension 0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:13.840 at home. It's kind of what prosecutors want to do, 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:17.000 you know, they want to go there was tension. Are 0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:19.080 we saying beyond reasonable doubt? You know, like it's all 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:22.320 of that. Yeah. One of Betsy's friends stated that Betsy 0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:24.160 had once told her that she was afraid of Russ 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:28.040 and was planning on leaving him. Without physical evidence tying 0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:32.560 Russ to the scene, it was all circumstantial. Pamela Hupp 0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:36.320 took the stand and testified that she drove Betsy home 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:39.240 that night, and that she seemed anxious, that she feared Russ, 0:32:40.120 --> 0:32:43.400 and that things had reached a breaking point behind closed doors. 0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:46.880 There were gaps in the timeline, but the state downplayed them. 0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:51.520 At the time, Russ's alibi and that he had picked 0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:55.200 up Arby's on the way home, was shaky. Prosecutors argued 0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:58.320 that the receipt with the time stamp could have been planted, 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:01.800 or that he his friends could have helped him cover 0:33:01.960 --> 0:33:04.200 up what was really happening that night. 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:07.560 I also feel like, if it was planted, wouldn't you 0:33:07.600 --> 0:33:09.800 make the time closer to the time of death, because 0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:11.800 didn't you say did you say time? 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:12.200 No? 0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:16.280 No? Sorry, you said he got home about half an 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.680 hour after the Arby's received. Yes, yeah, do we know 0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:19.680 the time of death yet? 0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:21.160 Is that no? No? 0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:21.040 No? 0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:23.640 Yeah, but it was somewhere between that time they think 0:33:23.680 --> 0:33:26.920 gorgeous earlier than that. Yeah. The prosecution did not have 0:33:27.320 --> 0:33:29.719 to prove a motive and did not have to have 0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:34.560 physical evidence linking Russ to the crime. Circumstantial evidence alone 0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:38.000 would be enough to put him away. The polygraph was 0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:39.960 also brought in as evidence. 0:33:39.960 --> 0:33:41.760 And the jury they were allowed to do. 0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:44.800 Yeah, well, apparently it was here and the jury were 0:33:44.800 --> 0:33:48.600 told that Russ had in fact failed. The defense felt 0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:51.840 that authorities had locked in on Russ too quickly and 0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:55.760 ignored other leads. They also argued that the scene had 0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:59.120 been tampered with, but this didn't gain any traction, and 0:33:59.240 --> 0:34:03.000 after one war there was a verdict. It only took 0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:06.640 four hours of deliberation. Russ was found guilty. The trial 0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:11.200 was only a week yeah hell. Russ was found guilty 0:34:11.360 --> 0:34:16.719 of first degree murder an armed criminal action. He was 0:34:16.760 --> 0:34:19.720 sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of barol. 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:24.600 When the verdict was read out, Russ barely reacted. He 0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:29.879 sat quietly as the judge read his sentence outside the courthouse. 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:34.680 The public reaction matched what the prosecution had argued In Troy. 0:34:34.760 --> 0:34:38.640 The case became a local obsession. Russ was sent to 0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:42.200 Jefferson City Correctional Center, where he spent his days reading 0:34:42.200 --> 0:34:44.960 in the prison library and trying to hang on to 0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:48.920 some sense of routine. He had lost Betsy, he had 0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:53.560 lost everything, and now he was convicted of murder. On 0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:57.279 the outside, the case was closed, but not to everyone. 0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:01.000 Russell's friends who were with him that night never ever 0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:04.360 stopped believing him. They started reaching out to the media 0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:09.520 and Russ's cousin, Mary Rogers, who tried everything. She filed 0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:12.440 public record requests, built a timeline, and got her hands 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:16.240 on any evidence that she could. She was convinced something 0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:17.600 didn't add up. 0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:20.640 How what a stressful situation to feel like you, as 0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:23.839 a member of the public, not an authority of any time, 0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:27.080 you feel like you have to do the police work 0:35:27.120 --> 0:35:28.960 for them. 0:35:28.239 --> 0:35:30.160 Because they're not that. I think that, you know a 0:35:30.239 --> 0:35:33.400 lot of the time. I think it's like if they 0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:35.640 had their victim, so they have their if they have 0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:38.120 their suspect and everything everything matches. 0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:39.680 I mean, well, of course, yeah, of course they're not 0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:44.880 doing it. Yeah, it's not even I'm not even the authorities. 0:35:44.960 --> 0:35:50.680 They they're gonna like they. 0:35:50.560 --> 0:35:52.280 Believe that it is exactly exactly. 0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:55.680 I mean, like for her sitting there going, well, I'm 0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:59.920 going to have to do this myself. Then the stress. 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:04.279 In twenty fourteen, the case called the attention of Dateline. 0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:09.360 Dateline often called Dateline NBC, is a long running American 0:36:09.400 --> 0:36:14.200 television news magazine and true crime show that focuses primarily 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:20.160 on real life criminal investigations, mysterious deaths, and courtroom drama. 0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:21.400 Why is it called Dateline. 0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:24.200 Do you know, I don't know why it's called Dateline. No. Oh, 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:26.680 maybe I should have looked that up. But maybe we 0:36:26.719 --> 0:36:30.040 can do it in a fact check. We always do 0:36:30.080 --> 0:36:30.480 fact shick. 0:36:30.520 --> 0:36:32.960 You sit that like its a fun segment. 0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:37.200 Everyone will look forward to that fact check moment. Each 0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:42.960 episode typically explores one or two cases in depth, using interviews, 0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:48.640 police footage, reenactments, archival video, and narration to reconstruct what 0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:53.160 happened and how the case unfolded. The show is especially 0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:57.280 known for its slow burned storytelling, plot twists, and attention 0:36:57.480 --> 0:37:02.279 to the psychology and motives of the people involved. Since 0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:06.600 its debut in nineteen ninety two on NBC Yeah, Dateline 0:37:06.800 --> 0:37:10.680 has become a staple of true crime TV. The case 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:14.920 the Case of Betsy had all elements of a compelling 0:37:15.120 --> 0:37:19.360 true crime case. The Dateline team reviewed transcripts and started 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:22.920 to retrace Russ's footsteps that day and make their own 0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:27.880 timeline of what they believed was possible. As they got deeper. 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:31.080 As they got deeper, cracks began to show there were 0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:36.760 so many unanswered questions. Joel Schwartz, Russ's attorney, was still 0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:41.560 working on the case along with I Believe and look 0:37:41.600 --> 0:37:43.600 I've read this in some reports and it's not in 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:46.680 other reports. I cannot confirm this for sure, but a 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:49.640 woman by the name of Kathleen Zelner. Do you know 0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:50.160 who that is? 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.200 I recognized the name and nationally. 0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:58.520 Recognized attorney for overturning wrongful convictions. So there are some 0:37:58.560 --> 0:38:02.040 reports that Joel Schwartz being Russ's attorney, but only a 0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:04.839 couple actually mentioned Kathleen, And I don't know. Maybe I'm 0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:05.640 going to tell you who she is. 0:38:06.960 --> 0:38:09.680 I picked up my phone to google for you. 0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:11.080 When you find out who she is, But I don't 0:38:11.080 --> 0:38:13.160 know if she was maybe just an advisor and it's 0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:16.319 not on her record of what she did. But you know, 0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:18.239 if you actually know the truth of this, and if 0:38:18.239 --> 0:38:21.080 you know if it was this Kathleen Zelna, please do 0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:25.280 right in because Kathleen T. Zelner is an American attorney 0:38:25.360 --> 0:38:28.120 based in Illinois, best known for her work on wrongful 0:38:28.160 --> 0:38:33.399 conviction cases, civil rights litigation, medical medical malpractice suits, and 0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:37.720 post conviction appeals. She was kind of built a national 0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:41.120 reputation as a fierce advocate for individuals who have been 0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:45.799 unjustly convicted, for those whose rights have been violated. She 0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:49.480 gained widespread public attention as the attorney. 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:51.440 For I wanted to get I know that, I know it. 0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:52.279 Can you give me a hint? 0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:54.840 I want to guess that very popular, a very popular 0:38:54.880 --> 0:38:56.680 TV show was made about this crime. 0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:06.360 Oh making him up? Ye, guess that there are not 0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:09.480 many better feelings in the world. I mean, that's that's 0:39:09.520 --> 0:39:11.960 not quite to this, but like the best feeling in 0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:14.719 the world is when there's something on the tip of 0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:16.640 your tongue I can't remember and then it just comes 0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:16.840 to you. 0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:21.880 I think it's funny to ma like that, like you 0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:22.960 don't actually know the words for it. 0:39:23.040 --> 0:39:23.879 So ra. 0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:29.520 So the song, listen to whatever. So like Stephen every 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:33.040 the Netflix documentary where she worked on post conviction challenges 0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:36.240 to his conviction, and she is actually in the second 0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:37.960 series of that as well, quite heavily. 0:39:38.040 --> 0:39:39.160 I'm going to do that story soon. 0:39:39.239 --> 0:39:42.200 Yep. Yeah. So even if look, even if it's not 0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:46.160 her that actually even it's not her up, she's great 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:47.920 and I want to talk about her. 0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:50.960 I'd like to talk as well. I'd like to give 0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:55.879 a shout out to zac Efron, just like to talk 0:39:55.920 --> 0:39:56.399 about him. 0:39:56.440 --> 0:39:59.040 Sure, thank you for bringing him up as well. Zeena 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:02.880 has represented other notable wrongful conviction clients like Kevin Fox 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:07.879 and Ryan Ferguson winning their exonerations and all civil rights verdicts. 0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:11.560 Her legal work has been featured on television documentaries, and 0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:15.480 she's received national awards for her advocacy, such as the 0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:19.959 American Bar Association's Pursuit of Justice Award. In twenty twenty two, 0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:23.560 Zeona served as a consultant to Johnny Depp on the 0:40:23.640 --> 0:40:27.879 Debt versus her Defamation drive. So, look, even if it's 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:30.360 not the same Zena, I thought it was worth mentioning 0:40:30.400 --> 0:40:32.759 her biography because I'm sure at some point will be 0:40:32.800 --> 0:40:34.640 covering Stephen Avery, which is yeah, you would. 0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:38.359 Let's do Johnny Depenhamer herd as a Thursday trait as well. Real, 0:40:38.520 --> 0:40:40.920 that's me furious, but we should talk about it. 0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:44.680 It will. So the two started building a broader appeal. 0:40:44.800 --> 0:40:47.120 These are the two attorneys, whether it's them or not, 0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:49.680 not just to argue that Russ was innocent, but began 0:40:49.760 --> 0:40:52.959 laying out the evidence that would then point to someone else. 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:55.560 That's the thing as well, if there seems to be 0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:58.239 enough evidence to convict someone, there was enough evidence to 0:40:58.239 --> 0:41:02.040 convict someone, they did convict someone. It's you often look 0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:05.160 at it. It's like it's not enough to just say 0:41:05.360 --> 0:41:06.440 nobody didn't do it. 0:41:06.600 --> 0:41:06.839 Yeah. 0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:09.520 Yeah, if you can say, but this person did, you're 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:10.239 way more. 0:41:10.200 --> 0:41:13.920 Like exactly you know, well, was it somebody that they 0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:18.600 already knew? Yes, it was the very person that dropped Betsy. 0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:21.320 Off hap No, it wasn't. 0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:26.279 In fact, shortly before Betsy's death, Betsy had changed her 0:41:26.320 --> 0:41:31.560 beneficiary to her friend Pam Sammy What who insisted that 0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:35.280 she was just trying to help her dear friend. 0:41:35.760 --> 0:41:38.440 What did you just drop out of nowhere? Just quietly? 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:40.279 It was Pam What. 0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:41.720 So let me ask you this question. 0:41:41.880 --> 0:41:42.879 They ask you it is son. 0:41:42.960 --> 0:41:44.200 Who the fuck is Pam? 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:46.000 How the fuck is Pam hap? 0:41:56.239 --> 0:41:57.479 Who the fuck is Pam? 0:41:57.560 --> 0:41:59.880 How the fuck is Pam hap Pa? 0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:01.000 A cool song? It does? 0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:03.120 Who the fuck is Pam? 0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:04.880 Got any single songwriters? Please do? 0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:06.759 I'm writing it and singing it now? 0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:07.000 Good? 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:08.799 Good? Fuck is Pam. 0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:11.680 Hop you're a real lyricist. 0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:16.160 You're about to tell me. You're about to tell me 0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:20.080 soother Digs is also a. 0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:23.440 Pop like that. Yeah, it'd be very good in the 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:25.600 Pam up song if Diggs came up for no reason? 0:42:26.200 --> 0:42:26.319 Who? 0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:29.920 Yes, a Pam Hup was born Pamela Marine Newman or. 0:42:30.480 --> 0:42:33.360 Can I just say I'm not. I'm not currently signed 0:42:33.400 --> 0:42:37.360 to any record labels, so I'm available if anyone listening 0:42:37.480 --> 0:42:38.480 is interested. A. 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:41.920 Pam Hup was born Pamela Marine Newman on October tenth, 0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:46.520 nineteen fifty nine, nineteen fifty eight, in Dalwood, Missouri, a 0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:50.440 working class suburb just north of Saint Louis. She was 0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:53.720 the third of four kids in a devout Catholic family. 0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:56.640 Her dad worked for an electricity company while her mum 0:42:56.719 --> 0:42:59.919 worked as a school teacher. She had a pretty stand 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:03.560 the upbringing. She went to Riverview Gardens High School, where 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:06.960 she was where she was a cheerleader. People described her 0:43:07.040 --> 0:43:10.800 as outgoing and a little intense. She was occasionally funny 0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:12.360 and loved to be the center of attention. 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:13.640 Occasionally funny. 0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:16.560 That's the best way described I find of her. Was 0:43:16.600 --> 0:43:19.040 she just occasionally funny. No one ever said it funny. 0:43:19.320 --> 0:43:23.160 In her senior year, Pam fell pregnant. She married her 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:27.239 boyfriend shortly after graduation. The marriage only lasted a few 0:43:27.280 --> 0:43:32.520 years before they were divorced. Eventually, Pam married Markup, a. 0:43:32.440 --> 0:43:34.600 Farmer cup Markup that's a made up name. 0:43:35.040 --> 0:43:36.360 A former minor moe. 0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:40.080 You're saying, like, whose cup is that? 0:43:40.080 --> 0:43:43.520 That's Mark, that's my cup, a former minor league baseball 0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:47.320 player turned carpenter. They had a son together and lived 0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:50.239 in Florida for a short time before moving back to 0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:53.759 Missouri and settled in a town near Saint Louis. They 0:43:53.760 --> 0:43:56.840 bought a modest home and flipped houses on the side. 0:43:57.600 --> 0:43:58.400 That's pretty heavy. 0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:00.560 He been strong. 0:44:01.719 --> 0:44:05.560 Pam worked a series of administration assistant jobs. She worked 0:44:05.560 --> 0:44:09.040 at State Farm Insurance for a short time. Some of 0:44:09.080 --> 0:44:12.400 her past coworkers described her as competent. I've got a 0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:15.520 lot of a lot of compliments, competent and organized, while 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:19.719 others thought she was defensing a defense defensive, not good 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:23.240 at defensing, domineering, and prone to exaggeration. 0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:26.040 I would put money on that she Oh wait, no, 0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:27.400 you said her. What was her birthday? 0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:28.839 Nineteen fifty eight? 0:44:28.880 --> 0:44:30.920 Do you remember that? It was October or something, wasn't it? 0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:32.000 Yeah, it was October. 0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:34.520 I was going to say she's a virgo. They're saying 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:38.880 she's organized the right way. She's also defensive, saying that, 0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:41.400 dear listener, because I will kill you with it, and 0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:47.279 I will kill you. Oh my god, Oh my God, 0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:50.600 I'm not going to kill anyone, and I was forgetting 0:44:50.600 --> 0:44:52.920 we are talking about a murderer. That's not funny. Sorry. 0:44:53.160 --> 0:44:56.040 So she was actually let go after she was caught 0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:59.959 forging signatures for the insurance place. Over the years Pam 0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:02.799 she made some pretty big claims that she had a 0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:07.719 high level security clearance and ties to the FBI. None 0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:11.520 of this was true. By twenty ten, she was claiming 0:45:11.520 --> 0:45:15.920 disability for chronic pain and stopped working full time. She 0:45:16.080 --> 0:45:19.240 was known for being incredibly frugal, almost to the point 0:45:19.400 --> 0:45:23.960 of obsession. She would find anything to flip for a profit. 0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:28.440 She could be fairly manipulative and no nonsense attitude, but 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:32.359 in public seemed like a fairly upstanding good person who 0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:36.240 took care of her aging mother, Shirley. She wasn't surely 0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:39.600 isn't Shirley and I his name. She wasn't particularly social, 0:45:39.800 --> 0:45:43.560 but not a hermit either, and she kept a very 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:47.040 low profile. Now, Gee's excited right now because Biggs just 0:45:47.120 --> 0:45:48.960 picked up the toy he has been not playing with 0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:50.160 as much. Chimpican. 0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:53.360 You got him a toy chimkin for his birthday that 0:45:53.400 --> 0:45:56.000 he hasn't really cared about, and it was just up 0:45:56.040 --> 0:45:58.560 on the TV cabinet. He just walked over, quietly, picked 0:45:58.560 --> 0:46:00.120 it up, and brought it over to his bed. It's 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:02.360 very good. I am concentrating on you though, I mean, 0:46:02.400 --> 0:46:03.359 I promise to. 0:46:03.280 --> 0:46:05.279 People on the outside. Pam looked like a very good 0:46:05.320 --> 0:46:09.680 friend to Betsy after her diagnosis. As investigators began to 0:46:09.800 --> 0:46:14.600 dig deeper, Pam's rule began to look very different and 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:19.640 truly disturbing. In February twenty fifteen, the Missouri Court of 0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:25.160 Appeals overturned Russell's conviction because all this the court side 0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:30.960 of major legal errors. Sorry, including evidence. Sorry, this is 0:46:30.960 --> 0:46:34.120 why I got this fixed up, including excluding evidence they 0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:39.360 had that could have pointed to another suspect. Oh wow, Yeah. 0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:42.360 It cleared the way for a new trial, whether defense 0:46:42.400 --> 0:46:44.760 could finally tell Russell's full story. 0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:48.520 Okay, so they don't. The courts don't know yet that 0:46:48.560 --> 0:46:49.080 it's Pam. 0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:51.640 No, but they're saying they. 0:46:51.200 --> 0:46:55.360 He's got an appeal and an overturn conviction because his 0:46:55.480 --> 0:46:58.279 appeals lawyer has gone, there was evidence that you didn't 0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:00.880 include in the trial. How was that I get an appeal? 0:47:00.960 --> 0:47:01.160 Cut? 0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:04.640 Like when Peel's lawyer to say that, like were his 0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:05.719 lawyers in the first place. 0:47:05.760 --> 0:47:08.520 Shit, Yeah, they must have been, or that there was 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:11.880 just enough evidence they thought circumstanced. They couldn't point it 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:14.359 to someone else at the time, so I guess they 0:47:14.440 --> 0:47:17.160 just went, oh, it's definitely this person, it's in it like, 0:47:17.280 --> 0:47:18.359 and the jury ate it up. 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:23.120 This doesn't feel like a groundbreaking thing to say, but 0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:27.080 I feel like all evidence available should always be put 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:27.799 before the court. 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:28.920 Correct. Correct? 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:30.880 I agree with are crazy to say that? 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:31.920 That's not crazy to say at all. 0:47:31.960 --> 0:47:32.640 Thank you for saying that. 0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:36.799 At the retrial in November twenty fifteen, there was a 0:47:36.920 --> 0:47:41.120 very different version of events told in a new trial. 0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.960 The jury learned that Betsy had changed the beneficiary to 0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:49.440 a one hundred and fifty thousand dollars life insurance policy 0:47:49.480 --> 0:47:52.799 to none other than Pam Up just four days before 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:54.920 her death. Four days before days. 0:47:54.960 --> 0:47:57.960 It was so stupid. You hear this so often that 0:47:58.320 --> 0:48:01.600 days or like two weeks after changing the bed, there 0:48:01.640 --> 0:48:04.200 all of a sudden, disious circumstances that. 0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:07.239 Is so obvious, so obvious, she had removed Russ and 0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:10.760 added Pam. There was no formal documentation. 0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:14.200 Sorry, I'm going to now immediately go back on what 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:16.680 I just said. Perhaps they have looked at that and 0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:19.399 that that was a smoking gun for them to go. 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:24.760 She's removed him from the life ahead of him because exactly. 0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:27.920 There were no formal documentation to indicate why, and there 0:48:27.960 --> 0:48:31.040 was no indication that Betsy's daughters were going to receive 0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:32.480 any of that money. 0:48:32.800 --> 0:48:35.800 Which seems yeah, sorry, I'm fullipping. 0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:40.919 And the defense introduced this as a financial motive, an 0:48:40.960 --> 0:48:43.600 evidence that she had kept from the jurors the first 0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:46.799 time around. H that had been kept, she had kept. 0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:51.000 There was also evidence of shifting statements from Pam. At 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:54.439 one point she claimed that she never entered Betsy's house, 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:58.640 and another time she said that she did. Pam declined 0:48:58.640 --> 0:49:03.520 to testify at the set trial her Fifth Amendment right 0:49:03.640 --> 0:49:08.200 against self incrimination. Without her on the stand, the defense 0:49:08.239 --> 0:49:12.600 could highlight the inconsistencies and how differently she was treated 0:49:12.600 --> 0:49:16.800 than Russ as a suspect. Pam's versions of events also 0:49:16.880 --> 0:49:19.840 did not match the mobile or cell phone records which 0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:23.160 placed her near the Faria home a freier home, sorry, 0:49:23.520 --> 0:49:25.480 and while after she said she. 0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:29.920 Left, sorry, mobile p taw pings did place her there 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:32.719 long after she said she left. Yeah, Oh my god, 0:49:32.719 --> 0:49:35.800 why was this investigation? Sir Paul in the first place. Also, 0:49:36.440 --> 0:49:39.400 we say it's always the husband, but it's also always 0:49:39.480 --> 0:49:41.200 the person who saw them last year. It's like who 0:49:41.280 --> 0:49:41.840 they look at what? 0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:46.200 Yeah, the defense laid out the full timeline that investigators 0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:48.919 never verified in the initial investigation. 0:49:49.080 --> 0:49:49.880 Oh my god. 0:49:50.000 --> 0:49:53.359 The first trial solely focused on Russ and not any 0:49:53.360 --> 0:49:56.520 other explanations for what had actually occurred. 0:49:56.080 --> 0:49:58.920 Which in the trial I can understand, but the police 0:49:58.960 --> 0:50:00.719 investigation should done that. 0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:03.879 That's right. Russ did not have blood on him, even 0:50:03.880 --> 0:50:09.600 though the murder was horrifyingly gruesome. Witnesses described Betsy's final 0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:13.520 days as hopeful, not of someone living in fear. Schwartzen's 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:17.759 owners showed the alibi, financial records, and phone logs that 0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:21.240 have been missing from the original trial, stating that Russ's 0:50:21.280 --> 0:50:27.279 conviction had never been properly scrutinized despite his alibis. On 0:50:27.360 --> 0:50:31.760 November seventh, twenty fifteen, after just three and a half 0:50:31.840 --> 0:50:36.680 hours of deliberation, the juror returned with a verdict. Guess 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:39.960 where they decided you love not guilty. Russ was acquitted 0:50:40.120 --> 0:50:40.800 on all charges. 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:41.160 Wow. 0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:45.240 He walked out of the courthouse after spending four years 0:50:45.239 --> 0:50:48.440 imprisoned for a crime he did not commit, and. 0:50:48.400 --> 0:50:50.960 A crime that would have ruined his life anyway. 0:50:51.000 --> 0:50:56.000 Absolutely none of the officials in the original investigation faced 0:50:56.040 --> 0:51:00.360 any consequences. Jesus, but Russ did not fade away. He 0:51:00.400 --> 0:51:04.040 gave interviews, spoke out about wrongful convictions, and filed a 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:08.400 federal civil rights lawsuit against Lincoln County and the members 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:10.279 of law enforcements. So would I. 0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:12.959 I'll be like, you're not keeping me down. You owe 0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:14.759 me at the very least an. 0:51:14.760 --> 0:51:18.759 Arby's Arby's Burger. This would stretch on for years. He 0:51:18.880 --> 0:51:22.920 also spoke out about how someone's life can be dismantled 0:51:23.040 --> 0:51:26.719 from a flawed investigation and about how difficult it is 0:51:26.800 --> 0:51:32.520 to rebuild your life. Meanwhile, Pam Hupp remained out and 0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:36.520 with one hundred and fifty thousand dollars from Betty's life 0:51:36.520 --> 0:51:37.560 insurance policy. 0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:41.960 Hold on, he's been acquitted and they haven't immediately. 0:51:41.440 --> 0:51:45.120 Gone yeah, she continued. 0:51:44.640 --> 0:51:48.120 Out, Okay, sorry, So I suppose the appeal trial is 0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:52.840 whether he's guilty or not. It did it suggest that 0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:55.920 it was that it was, Pam? But I don't know 0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:58.160 that feels like then they should in arrest. 0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:00.680 Her, so she continued aud in public shopping at the 0:52:00.719 --> 0:52:04.160 same stores and going about her business while Russ now 0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:07.640 struggled day in day out without the love of his life. 0:52:08.320 --> 0:52:11.959 Less than a year later, another person would end up dead. 0:52:12.120 --> 0:52:13.160 Oh my god, I forgot about this. 0:52:13.200 --> 0:52:18.360 But on August sixteenth, twenty sixteen, Pam called nine to 0:52:18.360 --> 0:52:22.000 one one from her home. She told dispatches that a 0:52:22.080 --> 0:52:25.680 man had attempted to kidnap her in broad daylight. He 0:52:25.719 --> 0:52:27.920 had followed her home, jumped in her car, held a 0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:31.680 knife to her throat while threatening her family and demanding money. 0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:34.160 Goodness, Pam has bad luck, doesn't she. 0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:37.000 She managed to escape and collected a gun from her 0:52:37.000 --> 0:52:39.800 home and managed to shoot the man in self defense 0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:43.240 while the king in the house. 0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:46.719 Oh, she has just kept from him. Oh, when he 0:52:46.760 --> 0:52:48.840 said and got a gun from her house, I was 0:52:48.880 --> 0:52:51.200 picturing her like running to the house. I'm knocking the door, 0:52:51.239 --> 0:52:54.840 going no, no, no. He took her into the house. 0:52:55.320 --> 0:52:58.520 Well. While speaking with dispatches, she said that she believed 0:52:58.800 --> 0:53:02.240 she had been targeted because of the Farrier case. 0:53:03.120 --> 0:53:04.200 So she's the victim. 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:07.960 Yeah. When police arrived, they found the body of thirty 0:53:08.040 --> 0:53:11.920 three year old Lewis Gumpenberger just inside the front door. 0:53:12.400 --> 0:53:14.759 He had been shot in the chest and head in 0:53:14.840 --> 0:53:18.799 close range. A knife was found nearby, and in his 0:53:18.920 --> 0:53:22.560 pocket a note written in block letters instructing Pam to 0:53:22.640 --> 0:53:26.080 drive him to a bank, withdraw Russ's money and hand 0:53:26.120 --> 0:53:31.960 it over or handed over or risk harm to her daughter. Now, 0:53:32.080 --> 0:53:35.360 Lewis Gumpenberger was not a criminal. He had suffered a 0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:39.480 traumatic brain injury in a car accident just years earlier, 0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:42.640 leaving him with a limp, limited speech, and a need 0:53:42.680 --> 0:53:48.440 for daily care. His family described him as gentle, caring, trusting, 0:53:48.800 --> 0:53:51.680 and someone who would not have understood a plan described 0:53:51.719 --> 0:53:55.880 in the note. Lewis's mother, Margaret Burch, said that he 0:53:56.040 --> 0:53:58.840 never mentioned Pam Hub or anything to do with the 0:53:58.880 --> 0:54:01.640 case at all. That morning, he was at home with 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:05.120 his mother. He didn't drive and had no way of 0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:10.120 getting to Pam by himself. Police began canvassing the area, 0:54:10.400 --> 0:54:14.400 checking surveillance footage, and that's when her story began to 0:54:14.480 --> 0:54:15.080 fall apart. 0:54:15.120 --> 0:54:17.239 God, I'm obsessed with this, Give me more, put it 0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:18.160 into my veins. 0:54:18.320 --> 0:54:21.080 That same morning, Pam had been spotted driving through a 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:25.640 low income apartment complex at Saint Charles. Witnesses said that 0:54:25.680 --> 0:54:28.920 Pam was offering one thousand dollars to reenact a nine 0:54:28.960 --> 0:54:32.520 to one one call for Dateline. A maintenance worker turned 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:35.520 her down, saying it sounded strange, and another woman turned 0:54:35.520 --> 0:54:37.880 her down to but thought it was really odd and 0:54:37.920 --> 0:54:42.320 she should probably get Pam's plates. Pam approached Lewis outside, 0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:46.680 and nearby apartment building witnesses saw him get into her car. 0:54:47.600 --> 0:54:51.279 He looked confused but not frightened. Further damning, the nine 0:54:51.360 --> 0:54:54.200 hundred dollars in Lewis's pocket was in an envelope that 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:56.000 had actually come from Pam's house. 0:54:56.400 --> 0:54:58.279 Fucking hell, this woman. 0:54:58.200 --> 0:55:00.759 And the note that the instructions were on was a 0:55:00.800 --> 0:55:02.720 notepad from her kitchen counter. 0:55:03.440 --> 0:55:05.560 Pam, you're a fucking idiot. 0:55:05.320 --> 0:55:08.880 An idiot. The knife matched others in the drawer, and 0:55:08.920 --> 0:55:11.200 the pen news to write the note was also hers. 0:55:12.280 --> 0:55:15.840 Walmart footage was discovered that Pam that day was buying 0:55:16.239 --> 0:55:18.759 rolls of paper, towels, a notepad, and a knife, all 0:55:18.800 --> 0:55:20.000 found at the scene. 0:55:20.160 --> 0:55:23.200 Pam, you're doing this all wrong. To hey, girl, give 0:55:23.239 --> 0:55:24.640 me a call, I'll give you some tips. 0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:25.440 Don't give you a call. 0:55:25.600 --> 0:55:28.840 I listen to enough, I engage enough to crime. 0:55:29.000 --> 0:55:33.160 I've got some tips. After shopping Pam dumped the packaging 0:55:33.200 --> 0:55:38.160 and receipt into a public trash can. Pam had scratches 0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:41.560 on her wrist, while she later admitted were self inflicted, 0:55:41.800 --> 0:55:45.400 to prove that there was a struggle. Pam wanted to 0:55:45.400 --> 0:55:48.239 shift focus from the Betsy case, and if she could 0:55:48.320 --> 0:55:51.520 show herself as a target, then all heat would be 0:55:51.640 --> 0:55:52.120 off her. 0:55:52.400 --> 0:55:55.160 No, wouldn't, Pam. I've got news for you. You've made 0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:55.920 it a lot worse. 0:55:56.400 --> 0:55:59.120 She planted the rant and note to imply that it 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:02.960 could have been Russ who who sent Lewis to kill her. 0:56:03.640 --> 0:56:07.560 She implied he was hired as one of Russ's people, so. 0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:09.360 Even though he's mad acquitted, She's like, I'm going to 0:56:09.360 --> 0:56:10.080 get him back. 0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:12.120 Yeah, back, yeah, but I guess to get all the 0:56:12.120 --> 0:56:12.960 heat off her. That's what you. 0:56:12.960 --> 0:56:18.439 Believed, Pam, Pam, Pam? Are you saying, Pam? Or Pan? 0:56:19.320 --> 0:56:22.520 Pam? Come mom. A week after the death of Lewis, 0:56:22.520 --> 0:56:26.240 Pam was arrested in twenty sixteen and charged with first 0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:28.920 degree murder and armed criminal action. 0:56:29.360 --> 0:56:33.120 For gergen Bergen or whatever Lewis. 0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:38.880 Prosecutors announced they would seek the death penalty. But this 0:56:39.000 --> 0:56:40.920 isn't the end of Pam's story. 0:56:41.080 --> 0:56:43.680 No, because she's got to be charged for her friends. 0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:48.640 Yeah, right. Investigators and reports started as reporters started to 0:56:48.680 --> 0:56:51.320 look at not just the death of Betsy and Lewis, 0:56:52.000 --> 0:56:55.719 but also were there any other crimes that Pam might 0:56:55.760 --> 0:56:58.799 have convicted? Did she in fact kill someone else? Give 0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:02.120 me it, Sammy three years earlier. On the morning of 0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:05.160 October thirtieth, two thousand and thirteen. 0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:07.640 So between Betsy and Lewis's that's. 0:57:07.520 --> 0:57:12.520 Right, yep, staff at Lakeview Park, a retirement living facility, 0:57:12.800 --> 0:57:18.080 found the body of Shirley Newman, Pam's seventy seven year 0:57:18.080 --> 0:57:22.000 old mother. Shirley was laying on the not old at all. 0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:25.200 Shirley was laying on the grass below her third floor 0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:26.160 apartment balcony. 0:57:26.200 --> 0:57:31.160 Don't do not dare tell me. This woman has thrown 0:57:31.200 --> 0:57:32.160 her mother out the window. 0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:36.280 Was determined that she had fallen through the iron railings 0:57:36.440 --> 0:57:40.280 or over the iron railings sometime during the night. At 0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:44.560 the time, police ruled it as a tragic accident. Pam 0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:49.920 told investigators that her mother was confused, frail, and heavily medicated, 0:57:50.120 --> 0:57:52.880 but there were no signs this was anything more sinister. 0:57:53.360 --> 0:57:56.440 The railing was spaced closely enough that an accidental fall 0:57:56.800 --> 0:58:00.720 actually seemed really unlikely, and that she had blunt trauma 0:58:00.800 --> 0:58:04.040 which could be consistent with a fall, but no autopsy 0:58:04.120 --> 0:58:08.960 was ever performed. The case was closed, but after Pam 0:58:09.040 --> 0:58:13.760 was arrested, it was reopened. The toxicology report showed extreme 0:58:14.160 --> 0:58:19.960 high levels of zolpidem, the active ingredient in ambient. Staff 0:58:20.040 --> 0:58:23.120 later said that Pam had dropped her off that night 0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:26.360 and strictly told staff not to check on her mother 0:58:26.520 --> 0:58:27.360 until the next day. 0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:29.560 What is going on? 0:58:29.720 --> 0:58:34.960 And no wellness checks or anything. After Shirley's death, Pam 0:58:35.040 --> 0:58:37.560 collected nearly five hundred thousand dollars in life insurance. 0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:42.920 Fucking okay, I have some advice to anyone and everyone 0:58:42.960 --> 0:58:46.920 out there. Hey, don't don't get me wrong. I like 0:58:47.000 --> 0:58:50.280 money as much as the next guy, often more than 0:58:50.320 --> 0:58:54.600 the next guy, I could argue. I will say categorically, 0:58:55.520 --> 0:58:59.920 no amount of money is worth murdering somebody at all. 0:59:00.080 --> 0:59:00.400 M H. 0:59:01.240 --> 0:59:03.440 Certainly not your friends and. 0:59:03.440 --> 0:59:06.840 Family preach its sister, Thank you, I will. There was 0:59:06.840 --> 0:59:10.120 no physical evidence linking Pam to her mother's fall, but 0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:11.840 it showed a recurring pattern. 0:59:12.000 --> 0:59:16.080 And guess what, Pam, If you've learned anything from Russ 0:59:16.480 --> 0:59:19.240 Pam is that there doesn't need to be any physical 0:59:19.280 --> 0:59:20.800 evidence Pam. 0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:25.920 In November twenty seventeen, the Saint Louis Medical Examiner changed 0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:30.600 the cause of death for Shirley to undetermined. In December 0:59:30.640 --> 0:59:33.920 twenty sixteen, Pam was booked into jail for the murder 0:59:34.320 --> 0:59:35.120 of Lewis. 0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:38.400 When she booked into jail like she's just don't know, 0:59:38.640 --> 0:59:39.960 like on booking dot com. 0:59:40.200 --> 0:59:43.000 When she was being served with court pages, she asked 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:46.320 to use the bathroom. Minutes later, officers found her bleeding 0:59:46.400 --> 0:59:48.880 on the floor. Ah, she had stabbed herself in the 0:59:48.880 --> 1:00:02.360 wrists and neck with a pen. Minutes later, officers found 1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:05.280 her bleeding on the floor. Ah, she had stabbed herself 1:00:05.280 --> 1:00:06.400 in the wrists and neck with a pen. 1:00:07.640 --> 1:00:10.440 Oh my god. 1:00:10.920 --> 1:00:16.800 She's revived her alternity story. Her attorneys argued she was 1:00:16.880 --> 1:00:22.080 unfit to stand trial, but after psychological evaluation, she was 1:00:22.120 --> 1:00:27.880 deemed fit good. By early twenty eighteen, court proceedings resumed. 1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:31.680 Pam was facing the possibility of a public trial and 1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:36.960 a death sentence. In June twenty nineteen, Pam changed her plea. 1:00:37.600 --> 1:00:41.360 She ended she entered an alpha plea, meaning that she 1:00:41.400 --> 1:00:45.120 did not admit guilt, but acknowledge that the evidence against 1:00:45.120 --> 1:00:47.400 her would likely lead to a conviction. 1:00:47.600 --> 1:00:51.680 We don't have that in Australia. And it's interesting with that, No, 1:00:51.800 --> 1:00:53.320 it's interesting. 1:00:53.480 --> 1:00:56.120 It is interesting though, but it's not it's stupid. 1:00:56.400 --> 1:01:00.640 It's stupid. Yeah, because the whole point is, and well, 1:01:01.000 --> 1:01:03.920 you know what, we kinda have it in Australia. 1:01:04.080 --> 1:01:04.800 Yeah, we don't. 1:01:04.800 --> 1:01:08.560 But you're allowed to plead guilty without actually giving details. 1:01:08.640 --> 1:01:12.000 And I really disagree with that. Let's do the story 1:01:12.040 --> 1:01:15.760 of bors Rostevski at some point. That is an example 1:01:15.800 --> 1:01:21.920 in Australia where a husband was charged with his wife's murder. 1:01:22.440 --> 1:01:24.920 He was not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, 1:01:25.000 --> 1:01:28.080 and then at the eleventh hour he said, all right, 1:01:28.120 --> 1:01:30.960 I'll not I'll plead guilty to manslaughter. 1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:32.360 Ah. 1:01:32.400 --> 1:01:35.680 And they went, oh, look there's not a lot of evidence. 1:01:35.720 --> 1:01:37.320 We don't know if we're going to get a conviction 1:01:37.520 --> 1:01:41.840 or not, so we'll take the guilty pleader manslaughter, right, okay. 1:01:41.840 --> 1:01:45.240 But he didn't ever have to actually say this is 1:01:45.280 --> 1:01:46.960 what happened and these are the facts. He just said, 1:01:46.960 --> 1:01:49.120 I'm pleading guilty, yet what's my sentence? And of course, 1:01:49.160 --> 1:01:52.280 because it's mans not murder, he didn't get very long. Wow, 1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:53.400 I'll do that story soon. 1:01:53.480 --> 1:01:54.160 You just ruined it. 1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:56.720 No, I didn't, because I haven't told you about what 1:01:56.920 --> 1:01:57.840 actually happened. 1:01:58.400 --> 1:02:00.920 The court accepted the play, and Pam was sentenced to 1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:04.640 life in prison without the possibility of parole, but avoiding 1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:09.000 the death penalty and a trial. But what about Betsy's murder? 1:02:09.560 --> 1:02:11.840 No one had been held accountable, so this is just 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:16.520 for Lewis Ewis. Yes. In twenty twenty, newly elected Lincoln 1:02:16.520 --> 1:02:20.240 Prosecutor Mike would announce that the case would be reopened 1:02:21.520 --> 1:02:24.640 in July two thousand and one, nearly a decade to 1:02:24.720 --> 1:02:27.640 the day of Betsy's murder. Pam Hup because that is 1:02:27.800 --> 1:02:30.440 twenty one, so sorry. Twenty twenty one, nearly a decade 1:02:30.640 --> 1:02:33.680 to the day at Betsy's murder, Pam Hupp was formally 1:02:33.800 --> 1:02:35.360 charged with first degree murder. 1:02:35.400 --> 1:02:36.760 Why did it take that long? 1:02:37.080 --> 1:02:38.160 It's insane, isn't it. 1:02:38.600 --> 1:02:41.720 Pam rass as well, I know, because he's still going 1:02:41.800 --> 1:02:44.960 like he's been acquitted, but he's still going through life. 1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:48.439 And also her daughters going, hello, someone killed our wife. 1:02:48.760 --> 1:02:51.160 Yeah, and probably their feelings towards Russ as well during 1:02:51.200 --> 1:02:54.440 that time, going, oh my god, our dad is yeah. 1:02:54.480 --> 1:02:57.400 Pam killed Betsy in order to collect the life insurance 1:02:57.440 --> 1:03:00.480 policy and stage the scene to make it look like 1:03:00.520 --> 1:03:04.160 a domestic attack, and allowed Russ to go away for 1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:08.080 the murder of his wife. Much of the evidence had emerged, 1:03:08.080 --> 1:03:11.760 including her conflicting statements, her unexplained access to a key 1:03:13.200 --> 1:03:15.840 to a key near the Farrier home, so the Farrier 1:03:15.920 --> 1:03:19.720 home and cell phone tower record's face are placing her 1:03:20.200 --> 1:03:23.040 at the home long after she said she had actually left. 1:03:23.360 --> 1:03:28.000 Investigators concluded that her timeline had never been thoroughly investigated. 1:03:28.560 --> 1:03:32.320 Prosecutors pointed to a broader pattern, a vulnerable victim, a 1:03:32.400 --> 1:03:36.560 financial motive, and a story that would soon unravel. In 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:40.400 January twenty twenty five, a judge set the trial date 1:03:40.440 --> 1:03:45.560 for the murder of Betsy Apharia for August third, twenty 1:03:45.800 --> 1:03:49.760 twenty six. In the meantime, she was incarcerated for life 1:03:49.800 --> 1:03:51.360 for the murder of Lewis. 1:03:51.400 --> 1:03:54.240 So sorry if anyone is questioning why I went, oh, 1:03:54.320 --> 1:03:56.600 because if maybe you're listening to this yump down the 1:03:56.640 --> 1:04:00.240 track yeap at the time of recording, exactly months months 1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:01.240 away from August. 1:04:01.120 --> 1:04:02.360 And we're going to have got a date in my 1:04:02.440 --> 1:04:05.480 diary to look this back up who Pam Hupp's legal 1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:09.760 team has been finding over DNA evidence they say might 1:04:09.840 --> 1:04:15.280 support her innocence in the Betsy Farier case, seeking access 1:04:15.320 --> 1:04:19.480 to samples they argue could point away from her, though 1:04:19.520 --> 1:04:22.080 prosecutors dispute that interpretation. 1:04:22.440 --> 1:04:23.600 I don't believe. 1:04:24.360 --> 1:04:29.760 A former crime scene investigator named Michael Merkle stop it has. 1:04:31.320 --> 1:04:34.720 Michael Merkle I love It has been charged with two 1:04:34.720 --> 1:04:37.560 counts of perjury related to testimony he gave in the 1:04:37.600 --> 1:04:42.520 original twenty thirteen murder trial of Russ. Prosecutors allege that 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:47.120 Merkle lied under oath about who Merkle? What's his for? Name? 1:04:47.200 --> 1:04:48.240 Michael Merkle. 1:04:49.480 --> 1:04:49.760 Ah. 1:04:49.960 --> 1:04:53.840 The prosecutors alleged that Merkele lied under oath about critical 1:04:53.880 --> 1:04:59.440 crime scene evidence, specifically luminescent blood testing. Merkle testified that 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:03.800 photos Aiken using a product called bluster used to detect 1:05:03.840 --> 1:05:07.800 traces of blood, showed absolutely nothing because of his supposed 1:05:07.840 --> 1:05:11.720 camera malfunction. Court records later showed that most of the 1:05:11.720 --> 1:05:16.880 evidence most of the evidence photos did show signs of luminescence, 1:05:17.120 --> 1:05:21.840 meaning blood traces were visible when enhanced, contradicting Merkle's testimony. 1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:24.840 So his testimony was all over the place, and they went, well, 1:05:24.880 --> 1:05:25.800 it's actually. 1:05:25.960 --> 1:05:29.920 How are there so many people giving like who are 1:05:29.920 --> 1:05:32.840 meant to be experts giving false evidence? 1:05:32.880 --> 1:05:36.480 Like what's going on? What's your job? His testimony helped 1:05:36.520 --> 1:05:41.120 support the prosecution's narrative in Russ Free's twenty thirteen trial, 1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:44.320 where he was convicted of killing his wife, a conviction 1:05:44.440 --> 1:05:48.840 that was later overturned. The perjury chargers argue that Michael 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:53.360 Merkle's statements may have misled the court and contributed to 1:05:53.560 --> 1:05:58.160 Russ's wrongful imprisonment. Perjury in a murder case is a 1:05:58.160 --> 1:06:02.480 Class A felony in Missouri with no statute of limitations. 1:06:03.000 --> 1:06:07.640 If proven, the perjury charges could significantly affect public trust 1:06:07.680 --> 1:06:11.800 in the justice system and raise further questions about investigative 1:06:12.120 --> 1:06:14.720 practices in the Betsy case. 1:06:14.920 --> 1:06:17.640 Yeah, I had to tell you, Missouri court justice system, 1:06:18.200 --> 1:06:22.160 You've already got a couple of question monks. I'm not 1:06:22.240 --> 1:06:23.280 just blaming Michael. 1:06:23.080 --> 1:06:26.920 Merkle, bro you would never Prosecutors have indicated they are 1:06:26.960 --> 1:06:29.960 seeking the death penalty in the Betsy for Reer case 1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:32.200 because of the brutal nature of the crime. 1:06:32.400 --> 1:06:34.120 I thought it meant death penalty for Michael. 1:06:36.000 --> 1:06:39.320 The meaning. The stakes are extremely high. Because of the 1:06:39.440 --> 1:06:44.280 publicity and complexity, the trial will likely be closely watched 1:06:44.280 --> 1:06:48.480 by true crime audiences, legal analysts, and national media. Similar 1:06:48.560 --> 1:06:53.080 to other high profile murder trials, defense attorneys will probably 1:06:53.120 --> 1:06:58.480 push hard to reinterpret or reframe existing evidence. How jurors 1:06:58.560 --> 1:07:03.400 respond to competing theirs about the physical evidence could be decisive. 1:07:05.000 --> 1:07:09.640 Russ called the charges a relief, long overdue but meaningful. 1:07:10.280 --> 1:07:13.520 Betsy's daughters thanked the prosecutors for reopening the case. 1:07:14.320 --> 1:07:16.320 Those poor girls women. 1:07:16.240 --> 1:07:18.680 So there's more to come. In the case of Pam Hup, 1:07:19.320 --> 1:07:21.400 there is a pretty bad series made about it called 1:07:21.440 --> 1:07:22.240 The Thing About Pam. 1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:24.439 Yes terrible. 1:07:25.160 --> 1:07:30.520 Yeah, with Renasy as Pam. It's absolutely fine, I would 1:07:30.520 --> 1:07:33.480 say serviceable, but there's a very strange narrator over the 1:07:33.480 --> 1:07:36.320 whole thing that gives it a Christmasy alf kind of 1:07:36.400 --> 1:07:39.640 vibe over the whole thing. It's quite cartoonish and colorful 1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:42.040 in the way they tell the story. And I didn't 1:07:42.080 --> 1:07:46.520 I didn't really like her. But Pamela's case stands out 1:07:46.640 --> 1:07:51.240 as a disturbing blend of murder, deception and legal tragedy, 1:07:51.720 --> 1:07:55.880 with at least one confirmed killing, another murder charge ongoing, 1:07:56.280 --> 1:08:00.160 and questions remaining around other suspicious deaths she might I 1:08:00.160 --> 1:08:06.160 have benefited from. Pam Hup's actions caused immense suffering, including 1:08:06.200 --> 1:08:09.520 the wrongful imprisonment of an innocent man and the deaths 1:08:09.560 --> 1:08:14.000 of two vulnerable individuals, and her story remains a continuing 1:08:14.040 --> 1:08:18.800 saga in the American true crime landscape. That g is 1:08:18.800 --> 1:08:24.000 the murder of Betsy and the case of Awful Person Pamela. 1:08:23.600 --> 1:08:28.040 Hup alleged awful is committed of Cales. 1:08:29.360 --> 1:08:31.639 Wow. What Wow? 1:08:32.320 --> 1:08:37.880 I loved that. Yeah, it's I'm surprised as well when 1:08:37.880 --> 1:08:42.080 it's like, all, yeah, I'm going to do a quick 1:08:42.160 --> 1:08:44.599 google of what they look like. I like to picture 1:08:44.640 --> 1:08:45.160 people like that. 1:08:45.320 --> 1:08:47.559 Yeah, it's really it's a really interesting case. And also 1:08:47.640 --> 1:08:51.000 with the you know, the trial coming up, it's going 1:08:51.080 --> 1:08:55.040 to be really interesting to watch that as it happens. Yeah, 1:08:55.200 --> 1:09:00.760 and you know, pam is h Up, but yeah, it's 1:09:00.760 --> 1:09:01.519 really Oh my god. 1:09:01.600 --> 1:09:08.040 She looks like a totally run of the mill, like 1:09:08.240 --> 1:09:10.960 kind of later middle aged American woman. 1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:15.080 Yeah. And she was, you know, devout Catholic growing up, 1:09:15.240 --> 1:09:19.519 like oh yeah, yeah, there was no like talk of 1:09:20.320 --> 1:09:22.880 what turned her into this person, you know, growing up, 1:09:23.000 --> 1:09:26.400 like would you I found really interesting as well, like, yeah, 1:09:26.560 --> 1:09:28.360 it just seemed like all of a sudden she became 1:09:28.360 --> 1:09:32.800 really obsessed with getting money, and you know if she 1:09:32.920 --> 1:09:34.160 did your mum as well. 1:09:34.880 --> 1:09:37.439 So oh god, the pictures of her name as her 1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:40.479 a shock, yeah, a very bad fat sit on. Sorry. 1:09:40.600 --> 1:09:42.520 The reason I went oh because. 1:09:42.240 --> 1:09:43.400 I was like, what is going on? 1:09:43.400 --> 1:09:46.519 Why she got a weir collar on in her mug shots. No, 1:09:47.040 --> 1:09:49.360 there are big patches over her neck because where she 1:09:49.439 --> 1:09:50.599 stabbed herself with the pin. 1:09:50.800 --> 1:09:51.240 Yeah. 1:09:51.360 --> 1:09:55.439 Yeah, oh she looks a bit like your old neighbor. 1:09:56.720 --> 1:10:00.840 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll never know who were talking. 1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:02.320 No, exactly if. 1:10:02.160 --> 1:10:07.800 You've lived near Sam, we're not talking about I've never 1:10:07.840 --> 1:10:10.479 got you, Sam. No, You've rewired my brain with this 1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:16.559 pam hup story. I'm excited. Yeah, oh okay, I'm really 1:10:16.560 --> 1:10:20.520 into this. Is this Betsy your picture here? That that one? Yeah, 1:10:20.640 --> 1:10:22.360 I want to see what rust looks like to you. Sorry, 1:10:22.400 --> 1:10:25.320 this is really good listening for you guys. Just while 1:10:25.479 --> 1:10:29.000 I google some things. What was Russa's center, please russ 1:10:29.000 --> 1:10:33.400 free it was. I didn't know. It's twenty twenty six. 1:10:34.160 --> 1:10:35.800 I don't know if people change the sum when they 1:10:35.800 --> 1:10:36.200 get married. 1:10:36.360 --> 1:10:37.599 I didn't, you didn't. 1:10:39.280 --> 1:10:41.840 Okay, I'll just keep googling and we'll sit in silence. Oh, 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:45.080 Russ doesn't look like what I pictured. Russ looks like 1:10:45.160 --> 1:10:51.439 a kind of I don't know, like a someone that 1:10:51.479 --> 1:10:52.879 works at an Italian restaurant. 1:10:53.200 --> 1:10:54.799 Oh okay, that's interesting. 1:10:55.120 --> 1:10:57.440 Anyway, this is good. I'm sniffing in the microphone. 1:10:57.920 --> 1:10:58.320 Let's finish. 1:10:58.360 --> 1:11:00.880 It's going well. Sorry, but yeah, and. 1:11:01.240 --> 1:11:04.960 A really interesting story. I found that really interesting. That's fascinating. 1:11:05.240 --> 1:11:07.120 Wow it is. 1:11:09.240 --> 1:11:10.519 Yes, yep, thank you. 1:11:11.040 --> 1:11:13.479 Yes, it is a stranger than Stuart Little. You were 1:11:13.560 --> 1:11:20.679 right much much much. I just a mind blown by 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:26.080 the fact that they did not properly clear the last 1:11:26.080 --> 1:11:28.439 person to see bets your life. I know, I know, 1:11:29.040 --> 1:11:32.599 like that's just that is an administrative thing that you do. Hey, Pam, 1:11:32.920 --> 1:11:34.720 we know you dropped off. We've just got to clear 1:11:34.760 --> 1:11:37.400 you of everything. Can you show us any evidence of 1:11:37.400 --> 1:11:38.880 what time you got home? We just need to be 1:11:38.920 --> 1:11:39.559 able to check. 1:11:39.479 --> 1:11:41.920 That off as just a blind focus. 1:11:41.680 --> 1:11:46.639 On and the death benefit has been changed, so we're 1:11:46.680 --> 1:11:48.520 just going to make sure because I you know that 1:11:48.520 --> 1:11:51.080 that could look like, oh oops, you had something. We're 1:11:51.080 --> 1:11:52.840 just going to make sure you didn't, okay, and then 1:11:52.880 --> 1:11:54.720 we can clear your name. They don't seem to have 1:11:54.760 --> 1:11:55.639 done that at all. 1:11:55.760 --> 1:11:58.280 No, the death beneficiary, did you say death benefit? 1:11:59.439 --> 1:12:01.839 The benefit of death on Pam's bank account? 1:12:02.080 --> 1:12:04.680 Yes, okay. 1:12:05.160 --> 1:12:07.240 I can change almost anything I say to make it 1:12:07.240 --> 1:12:08.320 sound like I was correct. 1:12:08.360 --> 1:12:11.160 Okay, Okay, very good girl. 1:12:11.720 --> 1:12:12.840 Anyway, I loved that, Sammy. 1:12:13.760 --> 1:12:15.759 I thought it was a really interesting story for this week. 1:12:16.080 --> 1:12:18.439 And I don't wether watching the series, but it's really 1:12:18.520 --> 1:12:22.000 it is really interesting that this case will be going 1:12:22.040 --> 1:12:22.519 to trial. 1:12:22.800 --> 1:12:27.559 Yes, and I will not soon forget the name Michael Merkle, 1:12:27.760 --> 1:12:30.320 and thank you for bringing that into my mind. I 1:12:30.439 --> 1:12:30.720 like it. 1:12:31.000 --> 1:12:32.519 We'll be back with a mail bag very soon. 1:12:32.560 --> 1:12:42.680 Everybody, Thank you. And it's the mail bag. It's the 1:12:42.680 --> 1:12:45.920 mail bag. I've decided to write a jingle for the 1:12:46.000 --> 1:12:47.000 mail bag. 1:12:48.000 --> 1:12:52.000 I loved that. That was beautiful. That was Coldplay there. 1:12:52.000 --> 1:12:54.400 If you don't know co Play the band ready for 1:12:54.439 --> 1:13:01.960 This is our first beautiful voicemail for today. Do you like? Well, 1:13:02.000 --> 1:13:05.040 you're not only going to like this voicemail, but I 1:13:05.120 --> 1:13:08.559 know that you are gonna bloody lover. I haven't listened 1:13:08.600 --> 1:13:13.880 to it, but I think you'll recognize the voice. Right away. 1:13:15.479 --> 1:13:19.680 Hey, guys, did you number one fair Marina Pryor convictions 1:13:20.800 --> 1:13:22.920 joke sits your number one friend? 1:13:22.680 --> 1:13:28.800 Friend Georgia loves friend and Sammy Peterson's trenmy. 1:13:28.760 --> 1:13:33.400 Oh all away from the Sunshine State Rusa. 1:13:33.720 --> 1:13:35.479 Georgia loves Dismay. I'll be honest. 1:13:36.560 --> 1:13:37.360 Look, I'm just. 1:13:37.240 --> 1:13:41.280 Calling to let you know, first of all, fucking killing 1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:41.799 the game. 1:13:42.120 --> 1:13:47.240 As you know, I'm an avid true crime listener, watcher reader. 1:13:49.160 --> 1:13:52.479 I love it all and you guys are fucking nailing it. 1:13:52.600 --> 1:13:55.160 I love the pod so much, not coming from a 1:13:55.200 --> 1:13:56.720 bias standpoint. 1:13:57.200 --> 1:13:59.719 Not my friend of me love it. 1:14:01.200 --> 1:14:04.240 Mostly. I'm calling on behalf of all the friends here. Sorry, 1:14:04.280 --> 1:14:09.200 all the fans. We're protesting in the streets. We are 1:14:09.240 --> 1:14:13.519 demanding some horrendous and harrowing merch. 1:14:15.280 --> 1:14:17.439 The people have spoken spoken. 1:14:18.080 --> 1:14:21.000 I really would love a mark that on one side 1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:24.160 says what and on the other side says, what do 1:14:24.200 --> 1:14:24.719 you mean. 1:14:28.320 --> 1:14:28.879 An episode? 1:14:28.880 --> 1:14:29.639 That's how he tells a. 1:14:29.560 --> 1:14:31.200 Story, and you know what's not bad about it? 1:14:31.360 --> 1:14:31.679 Actually? 1:14:33.120 --> 1:14:34.599 What do you mean? 1:14:34.920 --> 1:14:35.840 I love it? 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:42.880 I love you. That's great. I would also love her 1:14:42.960 --> 1:14:45.800 mug that says what fuck off on the back. And 1:14:45.840 --> 1:14:51.600 then also, magistrate, I am and also TikTok. 1:14:51.160 --> 1:14:54.960 Book talk stairs actually want merch, that. 1:14:54.920 --> 1:14:59.960 Would be my love. We would love sorry offering me. Okay, 1:15:00.080 --> 1:15:02.000 that's interesting, I love that. 1:15:02.080 --> 1:15:03.759 Oh my god, tell us if you actually would. 1:15:03.880 --> 1:15:04.160 Yeah. 1:15:04.439 --> 1:15:10.320 Franny and Sammy are frenemies. Yes, because Frannie moved into 1:15:10.400 --> 1:15:15.040 state very soon after you and I became really good friends. 1:15:15.240 --> 1:15:17.879 Yeah, okay, yeah, so I got to know the timeline. 1:15:17.920 --> 1:15:18.280 I'm sorry. 1:15:18.280 --> 1:15:20.920 Well, no, I think that's why. That's why it's become 1:15:20.960 --> 1:15:24.479 a frenemy situation, because then when Frannie moved into State, 1:15:24.560 --> 1:15:26.920 she was like, well, hang on, who is this new 1:15:26.920 --> 1:15:29.599 best friend you're talking about? Who is this person? And 1:15:29.720 --> 1:15:33.559 she loves our podcast so much that it's actually to 1:15:33.640 --> 1:15:37.160 her chagrin that she does because she didn't want to 1:15:37.360 --> 1:15:40.080 like you, because she's deafly jealous. 1:15:39.479 --> 1:15:42.479 Definitely jealous. It's great. We love that, We love you. 1:15:42.720 --> 1:15:45.200 Thank you for leaving us a beautiful voicemail. We're gonna 1:15:45.200 --> 1:15:47.000 have to look into merch and also one day a 1:15:47.080 --> 1:15:51.840 goddamn live show. Yeah, this is the next voicemail. 1:15:54.400 --> 1:15:58.800 I am reaching out from Tampa, Florida, the home of 1:15:58.880 --> 1:16:03.559 the weird and one full crimes. First of all, Sammy, 1:16:03.720 --> 1:16:05.320 so sorry to hear about your back that I have 1:16:05.439 --> 1:16:07.360 done my back in a couple of years ago, I 1:16:07.439 --> 1:16:13.479 tried Reformer Pilates changed my life. I cannot recommend it 1:16:13.560 --> 1:16:15.720 highly enough turn out of ten. 1:16:16.760 --> 1:16:20.840 It brings your back back to do it well. 1:16:21.240 --> 1:16:23.439 Also wanted to say, I know a lot of people 1:16:23.600 --> 1:16:25.880 say that they skip the banter in the beginning to 1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:27.000 get to the grizzly crime. 1:16:27.280 --> 1:16:28.320 I'm not a big crime guy. 1:16:28.439 --> 1:16:31.639 I'm actually I get quite squeamish. I don't I don't 1:16:31.680 --> 1:16:33.960 like the crimes that especially gruesome and horror and really 1:16:34.000 --> 1:16:36.960 just in general. H But I love the banter, I 1:16:37.000 --> 1:16:41.120 love the friendship, the pond reprieves, I love the digs 1:16:41.960 --> 1:16:46.320 action it. Actually sometimes I skip the crimes in the middle, 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:50.360 from the beginning, the intro, and then I skipped all 1:16:50.360 --> 1:16:52.880 the way to the ends and the back up in 1:16:53.000 --> 1:16:55.360 the summary, which I also love, and I skipped all 1:16:55.400 --> 1:16:58.240 the grizzly details. So I just thought I would say 1:16:58.280 --> 1:17:01.240 that not everybody is a freak, and some people actually 1:17:03.760 --> 1:17:04.679 being lovely friends. 1:17:05.280 --> 1:17:10.840 Anyway, I love how did you find Because if you're 1:17:10.880 --> 1:17:12.880 not a true crime person, that is so beautiful that 1:17:12.880 --> 1:17:15.519 you found out the friendship. 1:17:15.760 --> 1:17:18.920 You know what is great as well. So I shared 1:17:19.040 --> 1:17:22.680 on our Instagram today and our stories because one of 1:17:22.680 --> 1:17:25.800 our beautiful listeners, none of the Crime Podcast, one of 1:17:25.800 --> 1:17:29.919 our beautiful listeners, Corey, sent through to me that Tampa 1:17:29.960 --> 1:17:31.160 and this is what I thought he was going to 1:17:31.160 --> 1:17:36.719 be saying Tampa Airport, which apparently ended up being a joke, 1:17:36.920 --> 1:17:41.160 but announced that they were banning Jim Carrey, that they 1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:48.280 were banning people wearing pajamas and crocs. Yes, let's not 1:17:48.400 --> 1:17:51.040 move to Tampa. I think that is so funny that 1:17:51.080 --> 1:17:53.680 there have been two Tampa things. Yes today, Oh my god, 1:17:53.680 --> 1:17:55.280 maybe we should do a live show in Tampa. 1:17:55.360 --> 1:18:01.000 I'd love that. Thank you. Also, Shak is so cool. 1:18:01.520 --> 1:18:03.200 I have never heard that as a name before. That 1:18:03.280 --> 1:18:04.800 is the coolest name. Shake. 1:18:05.080 --> 1:18:07.880 That's my one of my friends who you know, I 1:18:07.920 --> 1:18:10.200 won't I won't dox him, but that's his middle name. 1:18:10.400 --> 1:18:14.320 Really, Oh, that's cool. I think that's a great name. 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:17.519 I love it. And also like Florida tamp It's so 1:18:17.560 --> 1:18:19.720 cool that we have someone listening all the way, like 1:18:20.000 --> 1:18:22.360 we're recording on a kind of a cold day in 1:18:22.760 --> 1:18:25.240 Melbourne right now, and it's so nice to know that 1:18:25.320 --> 1:18:28.880 there's people like in Scotland, in Glasgow listening. There's people 1:18:28.880 --> 1:18:31.240 in the UK listening. There's there's just so many people 1:18:31.240 --> 1:18:33.920 all around the world, and that just brings us so 1:18:34.040 --> 1:18:36.800 much joy and also someone because we, let's be real, 1:18:37.080 --> 1:18:40.360 we put a lot of work into researching and going 1:18:40.400 --> 1:18:43.760 through these crimes, so I love it. We do not 1:18:43.880 --> 1:18:46.360 have a discussion up top. We never have any meetings, 1:18:46.680 --> 1:18:50.840 so we actually really do appreciate that this one is 1:18:51.040 --> 1:18:53.520 from our friend Penelope. 1:18:54.800 --> 1:18:59.280 Him, Sammy and g Penelope here first time speak pipe 1:19:00.400 --> 1:19:05.000 and just listening to Elizabeth Smart episode and talking about 1:19:05.000 --> 1:19:08.000 going to five. I am so goddamn excited. I've actually 1:19:08.080 --> 1:19:10.360 bought myself two tickets that I might have nobody to 1:19:10.400 --> 1:19:13.360 go with. So my plan is to train up my 1:19:13.840 --> 1:19:14.360 nine year. 1:19:14.280 --> 1:19:16.320 Old water color and shep bloody love it. 1:19:17.600 --> 1:19:20.280 Also another little random thing for you, every time you 1:19:20.280 --> 1:19:27.920 guys speak to Sammy's Google it sends off my car twist, 1:19:28.960 --> 1:19:31.240 so I can keep listening to your podcast. I just 1:19:31.280 --> 1:19:32.439 thought that was quite funny. 1:19:32.760 --> 1:19:33.639 I wanted to share. 1:19:33.760 --> 1:19:35.439 But anyway, I keep doing. 1:19:35.280 --> 1:19:35.800 What you're doing. 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:39.600 I love listening and chatsoo Penelope. 1:19:40.600 --> 1:19:43.640 So I forgot to give an update on my five situation. 1:19:44.720 --> 1:19:47.320 So if you guys haven't heard the episode where we 1:19:47.360 --> 1:19:52.000 discussed this. I found in my calendar, yes that I'm 1:19:52.040 --> 1:19:54.760 going to the five concert in. 1:19:54.680 --> 1:19:56.120 Melbourne the boy band from you. 1:19:58.320 --> 1:20:05.000 If you're getting but I cannot remember who I'm going with. Yes, 1:20:05.320 --> 1:20:08.360 And I searched my ticket tak and Ticketmaster and I 1:20:08.400 --> 1:20:10.080 don't have the tickets. So I was like, well, this 1:20:10.200 --> 1:20:12.960 is awkward. I've said I'm going with someone, but I've 1:20:12.960 --> 1:20:15.720 forgotten who. I don't know who. The message to be like, 1:20:15.720 --> 1:20:17.840 what do I owe you for the five tickets? So 1:20:17.960 --> 1:20:20.680 I did a shout out on here thinking. 1:20:22.520 --> 1:20:24.519 Or just saying it which friends listen is good? Yes, 1:20:25.360 --> 1:20:26.120 shake does. 1:20:26.240 --> 1:20:27.040 And shake shakes. 1:20:27.680 --> 1:20:27.760 Well. 1:20:27.760 --> 1:20:29.880 I thought Penelope might have been offering to take me, 1:20:30.040 --> 1:20:35.080 but no nine year old's going. Apparently I still have not. 1:20:35.360 --> 1:20:37.320 Discovered this is the update. 1:20:37.400 --> 1:20:41.880 This is the update that nobody, nobody has claimed. I 1:20:41.920 --> 1:20:45.000 think what has happened is that it has been discussed 1:20:45.080 --> 1:20:48.120 in like a group chat, and I've said yeah, I'll go, 1:20:49.080 --> 1:20:51.639 and I've just put it in my calendar, and then 1:20:51.680 --> 1:20:53.680 no one's actually gone and bought the ticket, and. 1:20:53.680 --> 1:20:55.880 You know what, it's unlikely to put something in your calendar. 1:20:55.920 --> 1:20:58.360 So I'm actually proud of you. Especially like that far 1:20:58.400 --> 1:21:00.080 in advance because you ignore. 1:20:59.760 --> 1:21:04.799 Thing, yes, my tickets and forget to put in a calendar. 1:21:04.840 --> 1:21:06.439 I've done the absolute opposite. 1:21:06.600 --> 1:21:12.000 Wow, that's incredible. Well it's not incredible. Incredible. Well, you've 1:21:12.000 --> 1:21:14.080 got a new friend that's going Penelope is. 1:21:14.080 --> 1:21:14.840 Taking a daughter. 1:21:15.120 --> 1:21:21.000 Yeah whatever, Penelope, that's even known your daughter, Penelope, Penelope. 1:21:21.120 --> 1:21:24.200 That is so cool. And I've got to did we 1:21:24.240 --> 1:21:27.320 tell that funny story about what happens with my voice activated? 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:28.599 Do we tell that on the podcast? 1:21:28.840 --> 1:21:31.599 When I the time that we did, but if if 1:21:31.640 --> 1:21:33.040 we did, it was ages tell it again? 1:21:33.120 --> 1:21:34.400 No, no, you tell it. I think it's funny. 1:21:34.960 --> 1:21:39.040 It's really funny. So Sammy was telling me a story 1:21:39.760 --> 1:21:43.639 about it. Anyway, Sammy was telling me a story about 1:21:43.720 --> 1:21:45.240 how on his other. 1:21:45.040 --> 1:21:47.040 Podcast, Confessions Available. 1:21:46.720 --> 1:21:48.479 In All the Affessions Available in all the apps, do 1:21:48.479 --> 1:21:49.519 you want me to use the real name? 1:21:50.880 --> 1:21:51.080 Yeah? 1:21:51.080 --> 1:21:54.880 Whatever, Sure, So someone who'd written in a confession was 1:21:54.920 --> 1:21:59.120 called Gemma, and so on the podcast, Sammy made a 1:21:59.240 --> 1:22:02.559 joke and said, hey, sirih call and I'm not going 1:22:02.560 --> 1:22:06.679 to do it now again the name, and then Siri 1:22:06.840 --> 1:22:09.439 tried calling his ex girlfriend the phone. 1:22:09.640 --> 1:22:12.880 The next Holy shit, I had to pause the podcast. 1:22:13.080 --> 1:22:15.400 I had to run just to save myself because as 1:22:15.400 --> 1:22:17.679 soon as the phone rings, really it's calling two times, 1:22:17.680 --> 1:22:18.120 they get it. 1:22:18.160 --> 1:22:21.200 Oh, they see the miscalled. But then Sam is telling 1:22:21.240 --> 1:22:24.680 me that that happened, and it did it. 1:22:24.560 --> 1:22:28.760 Again in another room, in another room. I had to 1:22:28.840 --> 1:22:29.719 run to the other room. 1:22:29.880 --> 1:22:32.840 And I've never seen your face drop like that. You 1:22:32.920 --> 1:22:36.040 look like you're about to vomit. And it is so 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:38.799 much funnier that she would have got two missed calls 1:22:38.840 --> 1:22:39.960 over a couple of days. 1:22:40.200 --> 1:22:43.799 I know, Oh my god, it was so funny anyway, 1:22:43.960 --> 1:22:46.880 So that's just a funny thing. Hey, Penelope, we bloody 1:22:47.200 --> 1:22:51.640 love you, and we love everyone that leaves us. Goddamn voicemails. 1:22:51.720 --> 1:22:56.600 How about this one? Another one that comes from Sarah. 1:22:56.600 --> 1:23:01.080 My god, hi guys, it's Sarah Famously there. Who is 1:23:01.360 --> 1:23:05.360 you know, really good friends with Petti Flair Beringer. I 1:23:05.400 --> 1:23:07.200 was just so excited that someone wanted to talk about 1:23:07.240 --> 1:23:09.519 Real Housewives of Melbourne with me, because I could never 1:23:09.600 --> 1:23:13.200 find any other fans To answer George's question. We did 1:23:13.240 --> 1:23:15.840 break up, however, very amicable, and I agree that is 1:23:15.880 --> 1:23:18.280 a huge green flag that he remembered how much I've 1:23:18.320 --> 1:23:22.160 loved Pettiflir. No the thing is, and Sammy, I am 1:23:22.160 --> 1:23:25.000 going to correct you. It's switch Yes, I know, yes, 1:23:25.360 --> 1:23:28.519 now I agree. I don't really know what it is, like, 1:23:28.600 --> 1:23:31.040 what the topic is about. I think she left it 1:23:31.080 --> 1:23:34.439 purposefully open and ended. I do know that there are 1:23:34.439 --> 1:23:38.120 apparently lots of posed photos of Pettiflir. 1:23:37.840 --> 1:23:39.760 In the book, which is like, why not If. 1:23:39.680 --> 1:23:41.960 I was publishing a book, I'd put some photos in 1:23:41.960 --> 1:23:45.720 there too. Now I'm just so excited about this. I've 1:23:45.760 --> 1:23:48.000 done some real boots on the ground journalism here. I 1:23:48.040 --> 1:23:50.920 have ordered the book. I am going to read it 1:23:51.160 --> 1:23:53.479 and come back to you guys. I think this is 1:23:53.479 --> 1:23:57.080 a really imp Okay, okay, okay, we must delve into deeper. 1:23:57.200 --> 1:23:59.040 I want to know what Patti Floir has to say, 1:23:59.120 --> 1:24:00.679 and I want to discuss with you guys. 1:24:01.280 --> 1:24:01.840 Sta tuned. 1:24:02.080 --> 1:24:04.720 Okay, So, Sarah, are two things. I looked this up 1:24:04.720 --> 1:24:06.519 the other day. It is definitely Switched the Bitch, and 1:24:06.560 --> 1:24:09.080 I completely got that wrong. She says swish the bish 1:24:09.160 --> 1:24:11.200 in some episodes, but I think she's quite tipsy in it. 1:24:11.600 --> 1:24:14.080 But okay, sorry, it's called Switch the Bitch. This is 1:24:14.120 --> 1:24:19.400 Petty flu who was a Real Housewives Melbourne. I tried 1:24:19.400 --> 1:24:21.360 to order it the other day. It is one hundred 1:24:21.360 --> 1:24:23.920 and thirty dollars. I think maybe more. 1:24:24.000 --> 1:24:26.400 No, it was three hundred and four. 1:24:26.520 --> 1:24:29.200 It was three hundred and forty dollars, which I think 1:24:29.360 --> 1:24:31.040 is too much for a book, even for a joke. 1:24:31.400 --> 1:24:34.120 Sarah, really, Sarah, you got it for less than that, 1:24:35.040 --> 1:24:36.680 just seeing the look Sam and I gave each other 1:24:36.680 --> 1:24:37.000 when you. 1:24:37.040 --> 1:24:39.840 When you border, I'm going to look it up. So 1:24:39.960 --> 1:24:42.760 I've got it here. It's sweat. I've look my late 1:24:42.920 --> 1:24:49.320 searchers Jim Carey, face and wet screening times for the 1:24:49.400 --> 1:24:54.760 latest Scream film, Switch the Bitch. Petty Flur. Petty Flour 1:24:54.840 --> 1:24:58.200 Bearringer is her name, and I just want to make 1:24:58.240 --> 1:24:59.960 sure that that is correct, because when I looked at 1:25:00.120 --> 1:25:03.280 the other day, Yeah, three hundred and forty dollars. I 1:25:03.360 --> 1:25:05.760 hope you didn't pay three hundred and forty dollars with it. 1:25:06.720 --> 1:25:12.639 And this is also used, so I'm not sure about that. 1:25:13.240 --> 1:25:18.320 Did you buy one. It's also sold by an American 1:25:18.439 --> 1:25:23.160 seller who's in the USA in Boston because actually Real 1:25:23.200 --> 1:25:25.160 Housewives word it's huge. 1:25:24.960 --> 1:25:29.000 The obviously that much the only one. It's the only 1:25:29.000 --> 1:25:31.839 one available on internet. That's obviously why. 1:25:31.800 --> 1:25:34.880 Yeah, but if Sarah's ordering one, but my formula to 1:25:34.960 --> 1:25:38.880 being the champion, my formula to being the champion of 1:25:38.960 --> 1:25:41.559 your life, not the victim, I don't know why we 1:25:41.600 --> 1:25:44.920 need her to be the champion of our lives. And 1:25:44.960 --> 1:25:46.880 then okay, so this is the this is okay. So 1:25:46.960 --> 1:25:50.840 on the back it says raw, real confronting about the authors. 1:25:50.880 --> 1:25:52.160 We know about Petty Floer. We don't need to read 1:25:52.160 --> 1:25:55.679 about this, but this is the this is the formula. Right. 1:25:56.160 --> 1:25:59.599 The switch to bitch formula is like taking an off 1:25:59.680 --> 1:26:03.200 ramp in a traffic jam, but it's completely but it's 1:26:03.200 --> 1:26:09.040 a completely alternative route you never considered. It releases you 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:12.280 from all of your frustrations that are grinding you down 1:26:12.479 --> 1:26:17.400 and and wasting your life. Self help needs a swift 1:26:17.520 --> 1:26:21.679 kick and switch the bitch is raisor sharp and ready. 1:26:22.320 --> 1:26:25.120 Switch the bitch is that kick in the pants that 1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:28.479 will not only open your eyes but also open minds. 1:26:29.280 --> 1:26:34.040 Women today don't need any more soft serve affirmations. What 1:26:34.120 --> 1:26:36.640 they need and want is to be empowered with the 1:26:36.720 --> 1:26:40.400 truth because they can handle it and they will handle it. 1:26:41.160 --> 1:26:44.160 Switch the bitch is more than just a catchphrase. I 1:26:44.200 --> 1:26:47.920 don't know. Really, it's a lifestyle game changer. But let's 1:26:48.000 --> 1:26:53.680 be clear, it's a killer catchphrasee catfrage. I'm saying, yes, 1:26:53.720 --> 1:26:55.080 I switch the Bitch, and it's got her on the 1:26:55.080 --> 1:26:58.559 front cover, clicking because I imagine that's what it's all about. 1:26:58.840 --> 1:27:00.800 But yeah, I find it so funny Switch the Bitch, 1:27:01.040 --> 1:27:03.959 I and it's not switch the Bitch. I'm so fascinated 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:06.200 because I still don't understand what it is. I have 1:27:06.320 --> 1:27:12.920 to read the book. Wow, here's another thing. Two options too, right, Sarah, 1:27:13.320 --> 1:27:18.160 I want you every week to read in a part 1:27:18.320 --> 1:27:20.160 of the book and excerpt, and we could do it 1:27:20.160 --> 1:27:21.679 at the end of each episode in the mailbag. 1:27:22.640 --> 1:27:24.639 We need to look into the legalities of that. 1:27:25.000 --> 1:27:26.280 You could read. You could read a bit of. 1:27:26.280 --> 1:27:28.599 A book I Reckon, I reckon every week. 1:27:29.840 --> 1:27:31.400 Threw and forty dolls. You're gonna get your money's worth. 1:27:31.479 --> 1:27:34.960 And I'd also like Petti Fleur to come on the 1:27:35.000 --> 1:27:36.880 podcast and tell us what the book is about. 1:27:37.400 --> 1:27:40.200 Yes, yes, so do I. 1:27:39.360 --> 1:27:41.639 I just think that'd be great. Just come on and explain, 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.000 just in a part of the end of an episode. 1:27:44.080 --> 1:27:46.320 Yeah, it's not a crime, but Shake will like that episode. 1:27:46.439 --> 1:27:49.680 Yeah. Also, yeah, and also if you do like a 1:27:49.720 --> 1:27:52.439 TikTok dance or something with her, she'd love to come. 1:27:53.439 --> 1:27:56.479 She loves doing TikTok dances. Yes, have you seen her 1:27:56.520 --> 1:27:57.640 Instagram as well? 1:27:58.320 --> 1:27:59.360 You like lip syncing? 1:27:59.680 --> 1:28:03.320 Yes, fantastic stuff. So anyway, it's got a three out 1:28:03.320 --> 1:28:07.360 of five rating, seven ratings. But yeah, three hundred and 1:28:07.360 --> 1:28:11.400 forty dollars or four payments of eighty five dollars if 1:28:11.479 --> 1:28:13.439 you want to if you want to get it. 1:28:13.479 --> 1:28:15.400 Oh, if you look at it that way, yeah, jeep 1:28:15.400 --> 1:28:17.639 eighty five stree, we're about to make banking five million 1:28:17.680 --> 1:28:18.240 dollars each. 1:28:19.040 --> 1:28:21.519 Yeah, okay, so my first purchasers. 1:28:21.760 --> 1:28:24.599 Yes, teeming bed and switchitch to the bitch. 1:28:25.320 --> 1:28:28.840 This comes from Rick. Hey, guys, Rick in that place 1:28:28.880 --> 1:28:32.200 called scum Thorpe in the UK. Yes, you did pronounce 1:28:32.200 --> 1:28:36.679 it right, small small steel town on east side. Anyway, 1:28:36.720 --> 1:28:39.840 still catching up, listen to the Ken McElroy story. Knew 1:28:39.880 --> 1:28:42.679 this one. There is actually a movie on this worth 1:28:42.720 --> 1:28:47.479 watching called Brian Oh sorry, in broad Daylight. It's called 1:28:47.960 --> 1:28:51.840 nineteen ninety ish and the other thing Kim Wall. Since 1:28:51.920 --> 1:28:55.400 when do the Army have submarines? As stated by g Love, 1:28:55.760 --> 1:29:03.280 was absolutely how Lee great show guys as always from 1:29:03.320 --> 1:29:04.760 across the pond Rick exit. 1:29:04.920 --> 1:29:07.360 Thanks Rick. Look if there is anything that was clear 1:29:07.439 --> 1:29:11.559 in the Kim and I have absolutely no knowledge of 1:29:11.640 --> 1:29:14.920 summary five meters long every time. 1:29:15.280 --> 1:29:17.320 We got this one from Olli. This is a comment 1:29:17.479 --> 1:29:21.439 on the latest episode Channe of Matthews. The class system 1:29:21.520 --> 1:29:24.919 you mentioned, which was written in law was the feudal system. 1:29:25.479 --> 1:29:30.479 Leftovers today include the king landowner's House of Lords, etc. 1:29:31.120 --> 1:29:33.640 Not written in law anymore, but very much still the 1:29:33.760 --> 1:29:36.680 vibe times and I love this one. This comes from 1:29:36.680 --> 1:29:40.280 another Sammi. Hi Sammy, follow Sammy checking in. Not having 1:29:40.320 --> 1:29:43.120 Instagram right now makes me feel like a seventy year 1:29:43.160 --> 1:29:46.400 old grandma emailing her grandchildren instead of being able to 1:29:46.479 --> 1:29:51.160 DM like a normal thirty something below found on Reddit 1:29:51.360 --> 1:29:57.800 for Georgia. Tampa International Airport. I've seen enough, We've had enough. 1:29:58.479 --> 1:30:04.440 It's time to ban at Tampa International Airport. After successfully 1:30:04.479 --> 1:30:08.360 banning crocs and giving everyone the amazing opportunity to experience 1:30:08.400 --> 1:30:12.120 the world's first CROs free airport, it's time to take 1:30:12.400 --> 1:30:17.160 an even larger attack to take on and even larger crisis. 1:30:17.240 --> 1:30:19.720 Pajamas at the airport in the middle of the day. 1:30:20.120 --> 1:30:23.160 We know this decision could be disruptive to someone in 1:30:23.200 --> 1:30:26.040 your life. It's time to have a difficult conversation with them. 1:30:26.280 --> 1:30:28.840 You can do this. We and Phoebe believe in you. 1:30:29.320 --> 1:30:34.680 The madness stops today. The movement starts now. Help Tampa 1:30:34.720 --> 1:30:39.320 International Airport become the world's first CROs free and pajama 1:30:39.400 --> 1:30:45.000 free airport. Do your part. Say no to pajamas at TPA. Yeah, 1:30:45.479 --> 1:30:47.400 isn't that grassy? 1:30:47.479 --> 1:30:47.719 Yeah? 1:30:50.520 --> 1:30:51.320 I love it. 1:30:51.400 --> 1:30:53.360 You love it because you don't want people to wear 1:30:53.479 --> 1:30:56.240 goddamn pajamas at the airport, or. 1:30:56.320 --> 1:30:59.720 Like the Bogan like oversized. 1:31:00.760 --> 1:31:01.639 No, I'm a Bogan. 1:31:01.840 --> 1:31:02.479 No, you're not. 1:31:02.600 --> 1:31:05.280 I am a Bogan, and I am proud of being 1:31:05.320 --> 1:31:05.679 a God. 1:31:05.960 --> 1:31:08.520 I've got nothing. I know, I don't have anything against Bogans. 1:31:08.880 --> 1:31:11.439 I'm saying, don't wear the Bogan track suit pans. 1:31:11.520 --> 1:31:16.439 Yes, the airport. Oh god, anyway. 1:31:16.000 --> 1:31:17.759 Oh my god, that's very funny. 1:31:18.040 --> 1:31:22.160 Yes, very funny stuff. Tampa guys, I think this is 1:31:22.200 --> 1:31:25.559 time and you've got a great friend there. Yes, I know, 1:31:25.680 --> 1:31:25.920 I do. 1:31:26.120 --> 1:31:28.360 Shake with me? 1:31:28.640 --> 1:31:31.479 Oh, shake absolutely? Would? Can I tell you this right now? 1:31:31.880 --> 1:31:34.000 Fat check? Quick fact check? You know we like our 1:31:34.120 --> 1:31:34.679 fat check? 1:31:34.800 --> 1:31:35.080 Yes? 1:31:35.200 --> 1:31:36.280 Yes? 1:31:37.000 --> 1:31:40.680 Why is the show dateline? Called date line Gay. The 1:31:40.720 --> 1:31:43.840 TV show date Line is named after the journalistic term 1:31:44.320 --> 1:31:46.880 for the line at the beginning of a news story 1:31:46.880 --> 1:31:51.160 that indicates the date and location where it was reported. 1:31:51.880 --> 1:31:57.160 This title reflects the show's original broader focus on investigative 1:31:57.200 --> 1:32:01.800 reporting and breaking news, highlighting its purpose of delivering detailed, 1:32:02.120 --> 1:32:03.800 location based stories. 1:32:04.280 --> 1:32:06.479 Oh we just call that a location super or a 1:32:06.560 --> 1:32:09.120 date super dates. In Australia, that's what we call it, 1:32:09.160 --> 1:32:11.680 because a super is like yeah, when there's like the 1:32:12.240 --> 1:32:16.080 like someone's title under yes, when they came up their name, 1:32:16.120 --> 1:32:18.240 their title is called a super. So in Australia we 1:32:18.280 --> 1:32:19.400 call that a location or. 1:32:19.439 --> 1:32:21.920 Date super not for a show. 1:32:22.200 --> 1:32:25.080 Date super is actually a great name for maybe like 1:32:25.120 --> 1:32:25.760 a dating show. 1:32:25.880 --> 1:32:29.360 Oh sure, but this is date super Dates, super Line, 1:32:29.640 --> 1:32:31.080 Dates super Workshop. 1:32:31.080 --> 1:32:36.519 It's still yeah TM, the reality TV dating show Dates 1:32:36.600 --> 1:32:37.400 Super Super. 1:32:37.680 --> 1:32:41.599 Okay, we'll leave to We forgot to leave it off. 1:32:42.080 --> 1:32:43.640 I've written a little something for the end of the 1:32:43.640 --> 1:32:44.320 podcast today. 1:32:44.400 --> 1:32:45.280 Okay, here we go. 1:32:45.680 --> 1:32:49.559 For decades, the elastic face of the legendary comedian, comedian 1:32:49.560 --> 1:32:52.879 and actor has been one of the most recognizable faces 1:32:52.880 --> 1:32:57.120 in Hollywood. It's stretched, twisted, and contorted through films like 1:32:57.160 --> 1:32:59.639 The mask as Dan Surer and Dumb and Dumber, becoming 1:32:59.760 --> 1:33:04.439 us of exaggerated comedy itself. But in early twenty twenty six, 1:33:04.800 --> 1:33:09.040 that same famous face became the subject of an unusual controversy, 1:33:09.520 --> 1:33:14.840 one that blended Internet conspiracy, celebrity culture, cosmetic speculation, and 1:33:14.880 --> 1:33:17.920 a viral mystery that briefly convinced part of the Internet 1:33:18.040 --> 1:33:22.040 that the real Jim Carey had been replaced. What began 1:33:22.479 --> 1:33:27.280 as a routine awards appearance spiraled into a strange modern 1:33:27.560 --> 1:33:32.040 media spectacle. The controversy began after Kerry made a rare 1:33:32.120 --> 1:33:37.720 public appearance at the twenty twenty six SISA Awards in Paris, 1:33:38.360 --> 1:33:43.200 where he accepted an honorary war. Soon after, images from 1:33:43.200 --> 1:33:47.560 the ceremony circulated online, some viewers claimed the actor looked unrecognizable, 1:33:47.840 --> 1:33:51.639 sparking speculation across social media about what had changed in 1:33:51.760 --> 1:33:56.040 his appearance. A smoother forehead, a tier jaw line, slight 1:33:56.160 --> 1:34:00.559 changes around the eyes, overall facial proportions appearing different from 1:34:00.760 --> 1:34:05.800 earlier photos. The changes led to a flaw of theories, 1:34:06.800 --> 1:34:10.679 some of flood imit. The changes led to a flood 1:34:10.680 --> 1:34:16.280 of theories, some maintain others wildly conspiratorial. Within hours of 1:34:16.320 --> 1:34:19.679 the photos going viral, Internet forums and social media users 1:34:19.920 --> 1:34:23.240 began circulating a bizarre claim the man at the awards 1:34:23.280 --> 1:34:28.040 ceremony was not Jim Carey. Some commentator suggested a body 1:34:28.040 --> 1:34:31.040 double had appeared in his place, while others promoted even 1:34:31.120 --> 1:34:35.519 stranger ideas that Carey had been replaced or cloned. The 1:34:35.640 --> 1:34:38.880 rumors were fueled by screenshots comparing images from the nineteen 1:34:38.960 --> 1:34:42.519 nineties with photographs from the twenty twenty six event, which 1:34:42.560 --> 1:34:47.080 is stupid. Users focused on differences in eye color, facial structure, 1:34:47.479 --> 1:34:51.320 smile lines, hair texture. At the center of the viral 1:34:51.400 --> 1:34:55.320 speculation was a social media post from British makeup and 1:34:55.360 --> 1:34:59.160 prosthetics artist Alexis stone. 1:34:59.560 --> 1:35:02.559 I called it excess a drag queen. I didn't know 1:35:02.640 --> 1:35:05.120 if you didn't know that a drag queen or just prosthetic. 1:35:05.400 --> 1:35:08.960 Don't know that who implied that he might have impersonated 1:35:09.040 --> 1:35:14.240 Kerry using elaborate prosthetics. The suggestion, likely intended as a 1:35:14.280 --> 1:35:19.840 stunt or a joke, only intensified the conspiracy theories the 1:35:19.920 --> 1:35:25.480 cosmetic surgery speculation. While conspiracy theories spread online, some observers 1:35:25.760 --> 1:35:30.519 proposed a more plausible explanation. Cosmetic procedure. Yeah, Several plastic 1:35:30.520 --> 1:35:35.040 surgeons interviewed by entertainment outlets suggested the actor's appearance might 1:35:35.040 --> 1:35:39.200 be the result of facial rejuvenation work. Possible procedures mentioned 1:35:39.240 --> 1:35:44.200 included a brow lift, eyelid surgery, botox injections, fat transfer, 1:35:44.560 --> 1:35:50.360 laser resurfacing, or facelift techniques. Experts noted that Kerre's smoother 1:35:50.479 --> 1:35:54.800 forehead and raised brow could be consistent with cosmetic treatments, 1:35:54.800 --> 1:35:59.280 though none of the surgeons had examined him personally. Now 1:35:59.320 --> 1:36:04.760 the official is sponsors. As speculation grew, Carey's representatives and 1:36:04.960 --> 1:36:08.599 the awards people stepped in to shut down the more 1:36:08.640 --> 1:36:12.760 extreme claims. His publicists confirmed that Carey personally attended the 1:36:12.800 --> 1:36:17.080 event and accepted the award. The ceremony's general delegate also 1:36:17.120 --> 1:36:20.639 emphasized that the appearance had been planned for months, noting 1:36:20.640 --> 1:36:24.160 that Carey even spent significant time preparing a speech in 1:36:24.280 --> 1:36:28.320 French for the ceremony. He also attended with family, friends, 1:36:28.320 --> 1:36:33.120 and longtime collaborator Michael Gondry, further undermining claims that a 1:36:33.160 --> 1:36:36.200 stand in had appeared in his place. In other words, 1:36:36.240 --> 1:36:39.960 no clone, no impersonator, just Jim Carey. But why did 1:36:40.000 --> 1:36:45.280 this spread so quickly will the power of facial recognition culture. 1:36:45.640 --> 1:36:49.640 Audiences have spent decades watching Carey's face perform exaggerate expressions. 1:36:49.880 --> 1:36:53.639 Even small changes can appear dramatic because people are deeply 1:36:53.720 --> 1:36:58.479 familiar with his features. Social media amplification one conspiracy theories 1:36:58.640 --> 1:37:02.840 are once conspiracy theories begin, and circulating algorithms amplified post 1:37:02.880 --> 1:37:06.400 questioning his identity, meme, culture and satire. Of course, it 1:37:06.520 --> 1:37:09.040 is a huge thing today where they spread so quickly, 1:37:09.040 --> 1:37:12.160 and the celebrity absence is also something as well. Carrey 1:37:12.280 --> 1:37:16.719 has made has appeared in public relatively rarely, I guess 1:37:16.760 --> 1:37:19.880 in recent years, making any new image of him feel 1:37:19.920 --> 1:37:22.040 surprising to fans, which is more of. 1:37:22.000 --> 1:37:24.840 A reason to believe that it is him, because we haven't. 1:37:26.960 --> 1:37:31.720 Exactly. Perhaps the strangest element of the entire controversy is 1:37:31.760 --> 1:37:34.680 that Jim Carey is famous precisely because of how much 1:37:34.720 --> 1:37:38.040 he can manipulate his face from the rubber like contortions 1:37:38.040 --> 1:37:40.519 of the mass of the cartoonish reactions in eighth Agira. 1:37:40.760 --> 1:37:44.320 His career was built on transforming his facial expressions into 1:37:44.320 --> 1:37:48.120 surreal comedy. Decades later, the Internet briefly concluded that the 1:37:48.160 --> 1:37:52.080 face itself had become too strange to be real conclusion. 1:37:52.200 --> 1:37:55.200 In the end, that Jim Carey faced controversy turned out 1:37:55.280 --> 1:37:57.439 not to be a crime or a scandal or a 1:37:57.479 --> 1:38:01.400 Hollywood conspiracy, just a collision between aging speculation and the 1:38:01.400 --> 1:38:05.800 Internet's tendency to invent mysteries and also go the fuck 1:38:05.960 --> 1:38:09.879 over the line. But it did produce one oddly fitting outcome. 1:38:09.960 --> 1:38:12.719 The man once famous for playing characters who could transform 1:38:12.760 --> 1:38:17.200 their faces at will, accidentally convince the Internet that someone 1:38:17.320 --> 1:38:21.120 else was wearing his, which, for a comedian whose career 1:38:21.240 --> 1:38:24.960 was built on absurdity, may be the most Jim Carrey 1:38:25.200 --> 1:38:26.080 ending possible. 1:38:26.360 --> 1:38:30.960 Yeah that was great fun. 1:38:31.160 --> 1:38:31.840 Isn't that fun? 1:38:32.600 --> 1:38:32.800 Oh? 1:38:32.880 --> 1:38:33.360 My god? 1:38:33.560 --> 1:38:35.840 Would you like to tell me a poetry? Pea for time? 1:38:37.000 --> 1:38:38.760 Okay, this one came up at work the other day. 1:38:38.760 --> 1:38:42.479 So it's top of mind when people use the word 1:38:43.360 --> 1:38:46.559 bunker or the term we need to bunker down. 1:38:46.760 --> 1:38:48.840 Yes, it's hunker down. 1:38:48.920 --> 1:38:55.840 Yeah, yeah, bunker down is acceptably because bums down. 1:38:55.840 --> 1:38:59.439 Then I didn't want to say that. 1:39:02.080 --> 1:39:06.640 So bunker down has become an acceptable use because so 1:39:06.720 --> 1:39:09.280 many people said that that all means like bunker down 1:39:09.320 --> 1:39:14.719 is in like like stay inside and don't, but hunker down. 1:39:15.240 --> 1:39:17.280 Is the term? Is the correct term? 1:39:17.479 --> 1:39:17.839 Yes? 1:39:17.920 --> 1:39:19.800 And it was someone else at work the other day 1:39:19.880 --> 1:39:22.360 that actually said that's a pet peeve of mine, and 1:39:22.400 --> 1:39:24.479 I was like, aha, I can add it to the 1:39:24.520 --> 1:39:27.599 list of mine. But I don't want to do too 1:39:27.640 --> 1:39:29.679 many grammar ones because I just. 1:39:29.600 --> 1:39:34.880 Bring them anyway. What's your mine is bloody? When it 1:39:34.960 --> 1:39:39.040 is I'll tell you this, I do not like the 1:39:39.080 --> 1:39:43.240 weather when it is like it's it's rainy, but it 1:39:43.280 --> 1:39:46.240 is what's the word like misty rain, not not misty, 1:39:46.240 --> 1:39:49.799 but when it's kind of muggy, mugg Yeah, humid, humidity, humid. 1:39:49.960 --> 1:39:52.559 You know where's humid that Tampa, Florida. 1:39:52.560 --> 1:39:54.760 Oh, we will still go, but but yeah, I don't 1:39:54.800 --> 1:39:56.640 like it when it's rainy and you kind of look 1:39:56.680 --> 1:39:57.679 outside and you're like, oh, I'm. 1:39:57.520 --> 1:40:01.240 Gonna human, it's going to be cool. It's going to 1:40:01.320 --> 1:40:02.320 be called the human. 1:40:02.120 --> 1:40:04.040 It's just kind of gross when it's raining and it's 1:40:04.040 --> 1:40:07.240 really humored. And I think this week, in particular, with 1:40:07.280 --> 1:40:09.559 my back and everything, I've been walking around in this 1:40:09.880 --> 1:40:13.599 humid kind of hate and Melbourne's raining the only scenes 1:40:13.640 --> 1:40:14.280 in one day. 1:40:14.200 --> 1:40:17.519 A hilarious stuff. The only good thing about Melbourne's weather 1:40:17.680 --> 1:40:21.479 is that it's not humid. Yes, you're not used to it, 1:40:21.720 --> 1:40:23.720 and it occasionally is it's very fair. 1:40:23.760 --> 1:40:24.760 All four scenes in one day. 1:40:24.960 --> 1:40:27.760 Ah, hilarious, hilarious, hilarious. I like it. I like that. 1:40:27.840 --> 1:40:29.639 I agree with the Poordrey Peeve yeap. 1:40:29.640 --> 1:40:32.160 Thank you for letting me say that. And also, can 1:40:32.240 --> 1:40:35.000 I say a little bit of a teaser, few lovely people. 1:40:35.600 --> 1:40:39.120 We will soon be recording an episode, not with Diggs, 1:40:39.640 --> 1:40:42.280 who's sleeping right next to you right now peacefully, but 1:40:42.520 --> 1:40:46.600 with a young Poetry who is about to be a 1:40:46.680 --> 1:40:47.240 year older. 1:40:47.560 --> 1:40:51.240 Yeah, we're going to record at my house on Poetry. 1:40:51.520 --> 1:40:53.720 We're gonna do a full episode, and you guys see 1:40:54.600 --> 1:40:57.519 Poetry on the YouTube dot com. But also you can 1:40:57.600 --> 1:41:01.400 hear her throughout the podcast because Poort is yappy as 1:41:01.439 --> 1:41:04.240 and we love that about her. So we do an 1:41:04.240 --> 1:41:07.160 episode with Poudry. It's about time, That's what I'm saying 1:41:07.240 --> 1:41:08.920 right now. It's about bloody time, and goes to a 1:41:08.960 --> 1:41:13.479 doting digs real quick, Yeah, go on, I so bad back, right, 1:41:13.520 --> 1:41:15.519 bad back. I've been real kind of oh god and 1:41:15.760 --> 1:41:19.040 all gold and I thought I tapped on my Mikey card, 1:41:19.040 --> 1:41:22.160 which if you're in the UK's and Oyster cards. In 1:41:22.200 --> 1:41:24.519 Sydney is the Opal cards. So it's just a New 1:41:24.600 --> 1:41:28.200 York it's the Metro in in everywhere else in the world, 1:41:28.400 --> 1:41:31.160 it's just on a goddamn phone. But in Melbourne you 1:41:31.240 --> 1:41:34.519 have to have a goddamn physical card that you top 1:41:34.640 --> 1:41:38.519 up anyway. I always touch on and I always touch off. 1:41:38.560 --> 1:41:40.360 You have to do that in Melbourne. It's really annoying. 1:41:40.600 --> 1:41:42.280 But when you're going through the station, you have to 1:41:42.320 --> 1:41:46.000 do that anyway. Flinder Street station is a huge station 1:41:46.800 --> 1:41:50.160 which has all these I say cards, but they have 1:41:50.240 --> 1:41:53.360 all these undercover inspectors. They have these ticket inspectors that 1:41:53.479 --> 1:41:56.000 just line up and they wait for you to have 1:41:56.040 --> 1:41:57.720 a problem with your card, and then they take you 1:41:57.800 --> 1:41:59.640 on real quickly and they find you something like one 1:41:59.680 --> 1:42:02.000 hundred and forty dollars. I had a really bad bag 1:42:02.280 --> 1:42:05.200 and I got out my Mikey card, my key to 1:42:05.240 --> 1:42:08.680 the city and I can go anywhere baby, and I 1:42:09.200 --> 1:42:12.000 grabbed it and I topped it up, and I thought 1:42:12.000 --> 1:42:14.760 that I touched on. I obviously didn't touch on. I 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:19.479 got to Flinders Street Station and I realized I didn't 1:42:20.800 --> 1:42:24.960 touch on. I went to tap my card and it 1:42:25.040 --> 1:42:28.559 went did not touch on, and it went to two 1:42:28.600 --> 1:42:33.200 inspectors looked at me and a man who I say 1:42:33.200 --> 1:42:35.320 hello to every single day. He's an older man that 1:42:35.400 --> 1:42:38.840 works there and just a random aunt station. He works there. 1:42:39.000 --> 1:42:41.240 He just helps customers where they're going and everything. He goes, 1:42:41.479 --> 1:42:44.000 what do I do to you, mate? And I went, oh, 1:42:43.520 --> 1:42:46.000 I'm just having a really bad week. And I thought 1:42:46.000 --> 1:42:47.599 I touched on, but I didn't. He goes, I see 1:42:47.600 --> 1:42:50.759 you every day and he let me out and he goes, 1:42:50.920 --> 1:42:53.640 have a great day, and I said you too, and 1:42:53.680 --> 1:42:55.880 I went and I spoke to his manager when I 1:42:55.920 --> 1:42:57.800 went back at the end of the day, and I said, 1:42:57.800 --> 1:43:01.200 this guy, like, he's just incredible and he always smiles 1:43:01.200 --> 1:43:03.880 at me every day. He's a lovely He's an older 1:43:03.880 --> 1:43:05.760 guy that's just there and he just helps people where 1:43:05.760 --> 1:43:07.200 they're going and he can get you in and get 1:43:07.200 --> 1:43:07.840 you out and everything. 1:43:07.920 --> 1:43:08.759 Oh my god, blead. 1:43:08.840 --> 1:43:11.840 Yeah, lovely man. And it just made my day because 1:43:11.880 --> 1:43:13.519 not only did I not have a one hundred and 1:43:13.560 --> 1:43:16.120 forty all a fine, but also it was just a 1:43:16.240 --> 1:43:17.400 nice experience. 1:43:17.800 --> 1:43:20.240 Yeah, he should come on our radio show as well. 1:43:20.280 --> 1:43:23.120 And also because he deserves five million dollars. 1:43:22.920 --> 1:43:24.960 A year, he does he deserves five million dollars. 1:43:26.000 --> 1:43:27.080 Oh that's beautiful. 1:43:27.160 --> 1:43:29.280 Yeah, that's my don't digs for this week. Something nice 1:43:29.280 --> 1:43:30.760 to say, because you're always so angry with your board, 1:43:30.800 --> 1:43:32.280 repeat you just something nice to say about anyone. 1:43:32.479 --> 1:43:33.120 I didn't plan. 1:43:33.520 --> 1:43:37.479 No, if you didn't plan something, yes, planned, something nice 1:43:37.479 --> 1:43:40.519 to say, I didn't plan. Something nice to say, Well, 1:43:40.560 --> 1:43:43.280 you gotta plan. Something nice to say. Yeah, don say 1:43:44.080 --> 1:43:45.320 had a nice experience recently. 1:43:46.320 --> 1:43:47.840 Yeah, I have nice experiences daily. 1:43:48.080 --> 1:43:50.160 Name one of them. 1:43:50.640 --> 1:43:53.200 My friend Harrow at work got me a coffee today. 1:43:53.520 --> 1:43:58.280 Oh that's nice. Thanks Harrow already shouted it. That is beautiful. 1:44:00.000 --> 1:44:03.320 Oh God, thank you harroh for providing g love with 1:44:03.400 --> 1:44:04.200 a beautiful coffee. 1:44:04.280 --> 1:44:06.760 All right, let's stop record. We've been recording for so long. 1:44:07.000 --> 1:44:10.400 Okay, I've had a lovely time though, sell Yeah, okay, 1:44:10.760 --> 1:44:13.639 everyone will see you this Thursday for another episode. Share 1:44:13.680 --> 1:44:16.280 this podcast with a friend. Please please do follow us 1:44:16.280 --> 1:44:18.600 on social media. We bloody love it. Leave us a 1:44:18.600 --> 1:44:20.439 five star review, leave us five star rating. Thank you 1:44:20.479 --> 1:44:22.240 to Oliver Clark for writing the music, Thank you to 1:44:22.280 --> 1:44:24.200 Tams and Hayes for doing the artwork. And as we 1:44:24.280 --> 1:44:27.840 always see on this goddamn podcast, for Franny TikTok book 1:44:27.960 --> 1:44:30.600 Touchstairs