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Speaker 1: This is jam Nayson. I'm excited to start because this

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Speaker 1: film was funny, confronting, familiar, all of it, all of it.

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Speaker 1: And let's talk about Nancy. Emma.

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Speaker 2: Hello, good Dame Memma Thompson.

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Speaker 3: And you're just going.

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Speaker 4: Straight into we've already.

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Speaker 1: Seen a film in such a long time that has

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Speaker 1: just stayed with me like this. So we meet Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And Nancy's husband's passed away, and she's a woman who's

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Speaker 1: never allowed herself to put her pleasure first, so she

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Speaker 1: hires a sex worker and that's where we first meet Nancy.

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Speaker 1: What an incredible character, and there's so much to love here. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: like so many of us, stands in front of the

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Speaker 1: mirror and doesn't like her body. We're so hard on ourselves,

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Speaker 1: aren't we.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? I mean it's hardly our fault. I mean we

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Speaker 3: are surrounded by a kind of of an iconography body

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Speaker 3: iconography that's completely relentless and unforgiving and punishing. And why

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Speaker 3: don't you look like this? And here's how you can

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Speaker 3: look like this, And we'll tell you this and tell

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Speaker 3: you that, and this thing to do to your body

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Speaker 3: and this thing to take you know, we've been brainwashed

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Speaker 3: since we were very little. There are eight year olds

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Speaker 3: out there right now saying that they don't like their thighs,

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Speaker 3: which is one of the reasons why, you know, I'll

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Speaker 3: travel around the world with this movie saying we've got

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Speaker 3: to stop this. And you would have thought that the

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Speaker 3: advent of something like social media might have somehow allowed

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Speaker 3: a younger generation to be more accepting of themselves, but

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Speaker 3: in fact the opposite has happened, and they've taken the

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Speaker 3: opportunities given to them to improve the way they look

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Speaker 3: so that they then become something that is acceptable in

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Speaker 3: the iconography that we've created for ourselves. And it's somehow

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Speaker 3: even worse now. Our level of self loathing and body

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Speaker 3: hatred and body dysmorphia is even worse. So you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a huge, huge issue. And as for Nancy, I

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Speaker 3: don't think she's unusual as a woman in not interrogating

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Speaker 3: herself on any level about what she might want. No,

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Speaker 3: you talk to most women and say what do you want?

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Speaker 3: To say what do you mean? What do I want?

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Speaker 3: Because it's not the top of anybody's list, And because

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Speaker 3: we're encouraged right from the beginning to be good, and

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Speaker 3: being good often doesn't relate or correlate with what's acceptable

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Speaker 3: and what you want to do with your life, you know,

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Speaker 3: to the point of do you actually want to have

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Speaker 3: children or are you going to be completely unnatural and

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Speaker 3: choose to live a life unencumbered by that. It's it's

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Speaker 3: really that's why the film goes so do all of

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Speaker 3: the questions about being a woman, what it means, and

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Speaker 3: you're unexamined life absolutely and how you look at yourself.

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Speaker 2: You could almost fantasize about this as far as this

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Speaker 2: is your character from from Love. Actually, it's almost like

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Speaker 2: Karen has moved morphed into Nancy. She was a teacher,

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Speaker 2: she had two kids some years down the track, and

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Speaker 2: there was a moment that I thought, obviously not the

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Speaker 2: same character.

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Speaker 3: But there is no no, that would be sad.

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Speaker 2: But that is a step like yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean you know, you're right, Yeah, absolutely, that's a

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Speaker 3: woman who's done everything right and then finds herself thinking

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Speaker 3: why did I follow that whom? Yeah? Yeah, it's I

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Speaker 3: think she probably had better sex though, yeah, Nancy with

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Speaker 3: Alan Rickman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh you think in her marriage?

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Speaker 3: In her marriage, I think so, Yes. I think Nancy

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Speaker 3: has had a particularly rough ride in that regard, I

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Speaker 3: mean deeply Victorian practically and nighty with a hole in it.

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Speaker 2: Actually, that's kind of sex.

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Speaker 3: The title of your new book. Yeah, now that's probably

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Speaker 3: an actual king.

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Speaker 2: Stop talking about.

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Speaker 3: Where's the whole? Don't even so?

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Speaker 2: And with that, with that, because this like there's no

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Speaker 2: holds barred when it comes to nudity and also discussion

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Speaker 2: about sex. How far are you removed from Nancy in that?

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Speaker 3: Oh, this film isn't about me. No, no, no, it

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Speaker 3: just isn't. It doesn't. And as for no holds barred,

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Speaker 3: just for your listeners, this is not a film full

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Speaker 3: of sex and nudity. It's mostly fully clothed and a

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Speaker 3: lot of chat. It's two people really connecting with one another.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's about real intimacy. But what I find

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Speaker 3: so fantastically interesting is that it's intimacy that's not romantic.

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Speaker 3: It's a man and a woman in a room. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and sex is involved, or you know, dancing around the

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Speaker 3: idea of possibly maybe at some point, managing to do

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Speaker 3: something that she's so scared of. That's what's so fantastic

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Speaker 3: about Nancy. Couldn't be further from me. But I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to talk about my sex if that's okay. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: she's so so frightened, but there's something inside her that's saying,

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Speaker 3: I absolutely have to do this. I can't die like this.

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Speaker 2: It's like going on a roller coaster.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it is like that for her. And

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Speaker 3: it's a good analogy actually, because you know that feeling

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Speaker 3: as you get well I do, as you're in that

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Speaker 3: roller coaster. It makes that to get to this is

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Speaker 3: it going up to the top and I'm thinking, what

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Speaker 3: have I done? I'm going to die. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: die if not actually, but then a fright and that's

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Speaker 3: how Nancy's feeling. And then she goes over the edge

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Speaker 3: and you know, you watch this woman plunging into the flume.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we discussed this, and without giving too

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Speaker 1: much away in the film, you thought that Nancy fell

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Speaker 1: in love with Leah. I felt and I could be

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Speaker 1: wrong too, me saying you're wrong that she wanted within

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Speaker 1: all that she was paying him, but she still wanted

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Speaker 1: to find that there was some mutual work going on there.

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Speaker 1: And that's what's so liberating at the end, where she

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Speaker 1: feels we just see them with mutual pleasure and what

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Speaker 1: that meant to her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think she does fall in love with him.

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Speaker 3: I think that the generation gap is too wide. And

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Speaker 3: she's a person who uses her mind, uses her words,

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Speaker 3: loves her words. She's not but she does slightly lose

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Speaker 3: her mind, and she says, I weren't mad. I was

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Speaker 3: mad with I don't know what with maybe with lust

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Speaker 3: with it. But she wanted it to be real. She

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Speaker 3: wanted it to be real in the sense that she

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Speaker 3: wanted to be able to say, you know, well, we

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Speaker 3: met and it was a business thing, but then it

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Speaker 3: turned into something else. Maybe she might have had projected

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Speaker 3: ideas of what it could have become. But she also

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Speaker 3: wants to sort of make his life better. She's got

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Speaker 3: that teacher maternal thing and going, I could talk to

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Speaker 3: your mom about it.

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Speaker 2: She's a fixer, she's.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, she's a caretaker. And she doesn't realize that

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Speaker 3: that's completely inappropriate. It is not for her to do that.

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Speaker 3: And she learns so many new boundaries with Leo about

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Speaker 3: how to honor. Are the people's boundaries, you know, are

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Speaker 3: the people's choices? Absolutely? The schoolgirls. The skirt length that

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Speaker 3: we still hear now, it's your fault. You wore the

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Speaker 3: wrong thing, and that's why the man lost control. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's always the woman's fault, everything's our fault. You just

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Speaker 3: have to remember that everything's are fauled and then proceed

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Speaker 3: from there. But don't assume that anyone's going to understand that.

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Speaker 3: In fact, it's literally the other way around.

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Speaker 1: What do you hope the discussions will be for people

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Speaker 1: who've seen this film? What the What are the you

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Speaker 1: hope people will talk about when they leave the cinema?

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Speaker 3: I well, first of all, I hope that people just

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Speaker 3: feel enormous pleasure and have a great time watching it,

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Speaker 3: because it's very, very funny. It is funny, and it's

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Speaker 3: very moving, and it's all the things that I want.

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Speaker 3: I want things to be funny, bittersweet, you know, a

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Speaker 3: little bit of a little bit sad, but also just hilarious.

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Speaker 3: I can give you examples of what people have said

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Speaker 3: to me. I remember a couple of twenty two to

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Speaker 3: twenty three year old girls saying, well, I didn't have

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Speaker 3: an orgasm until I was my I didn't know how,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know how to masturbate. Nobody talks about it.

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely to be that an eighty year old man

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Speaker 3: who said, I went home and talked to my wife

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Speaker 3: about what she might want, whether or our sex life

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Speaker 3: was Another older man, a grandfather, saying, you know, my

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Speaker 3: friends brag about having good sex. I'm not sure that

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Speaker 3: they really are. I think they're lying. Another woman who said,

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Speaker 3: you know, I went to sleep with my husband and

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to laugh too loud because then I

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Speaker 3: thought he might know sad things. But also there was

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Speaker 3: a gay couple in the audience last night. Male gay

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Speaker 3: couple who have said that the body image, the dysmorphia,

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Speaker 3: and the dissatisfaction and unhappiness with one body really really

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Speaker 3: help them to let go of their own sense of

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Speaker 3: because how can you experience pleasure in After all, our

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Speaker 3: only home, our body is the only place we're going

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Speaker 3: to be able to live. Unless you know you're in

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Speaker 3: a sci fi movie, this is where we live. So

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Speaker 3: if we hate it, if we can't deal with it,

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Speaker 3: if we're dysmorphic about it and look at it with

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Speaker 3: dissatisfaction and negative feelings, how is it possible for us

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Speaker 3: to feel pleasure true within it?

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Speaker 1: But when in popular culture do we ever see real skin,

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Speaker 1: real bodies? That was what I found so wonderful about

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Speaker 1: this film. We never see someone over the age of

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Speaker 1: twenty five have an orgasm, live a life, be nude.

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Speaker 3: We just don't see it, so we can pa. So

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Speaker 3: that's why we're so you know, we're so stark in

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Speaker 3: this kind of it's got to be perfect because that's

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Speaker 3: all we're shown. And until we see regularly lots and

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Speaker 3: lots of different stories about different kinds of bodies, will

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Speaker 3: will will continue to have this response to somebody like

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Speaker 3: Nancy taking her clothes off, which is, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: what happened? We've just seen a real body. Ah panic

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Speaker 3: in the streets. On a wait a minute, now I

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Speaker 3: feel better. I don't know why, on a wed a minute, yes,

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's this huge sort of response to it,

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Speaker 4: which just shows you how little we see ourselves and

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Speaker 4: one another on a regular basis in stories, stories, and

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Speaker 4: also the oral sex scene has been lauded as one

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Speaker 4: of the best scene cinematic oral sex scenes.

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Speaker 3: It really has. I didn't even know that.

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Speaker 2: Hang in a list of oral sex scenes or is

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Speaker 2: this like so out of like great movies like Her?

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Speaker 3: Did you miss the oral sex scene? You know in

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Speaker 3: the Chariot's a metaphor, don it so ended up on

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Speaker 3: the floor.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that it's funny and it's real and

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Speaker 1: you talk through it. We don't see that either popular culture.

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Speaker 3: And also she's sort of a bit of an idiot

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Speaker 3: sometimes and dogmatic and sometimes a bit bigoted. She says

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Speaker 3: stupid things. You will take it on with it, Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: I mean an extraordinary thing to say about, well, what

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Speaker 3: you young men need is a war, and my general because

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Speaker 3: and then you think, well, she's been trying to sort

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Speaker 3: of interrogate her own past and her own husband, who

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Speaker 3: perhaps was did have exactly that. She's got a good mind,

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Speaker 3: but she has She's spent all her life with the

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Speaker 3: same kind of people, and suddenly she meets someone who's

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Speaker 3: completely different. And what I like very much about that

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Speaker 3: woman is that she's willing to learn. She's willing to

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Speaker 3: to be humble in the face of his wisdom, and

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Speaker 3: he's willing to accept the kind of affirmation that she

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Speaker 3: offers him, a kind of maternal affirmation that he hasn't had.

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Speaker 3: And so when they leave one another, they are deeply changed.

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Speaker 3: And I think we often surround ourselves, don't we, with

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Speaker 3: the same kind of people because of course, that's how

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Speaker 3: we are. We're humans. We like to be with people

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Speaker 3: who think the same way as we do, like the

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Speaker 3: same things we do. And I think we're losing the

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Speaker 3: capacity to talk really to people who have very, very

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Speaker 3: different opinions. And it's one of the only ways of

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Speaker 3: discovering what you really think and also learning tolerance.

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Speaker 1: And I imagine at the end of this film, Nancy

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Speaker 1: has a very different relationship or would try to forge

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Speaker 1: a different relationship with her children.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more. I think that's

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Speaker 3: a really you're the first person to point that out,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's a great truth. I think she'll

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Speaker 3: go off to Barcelona and you know, perhaps find somebody there,

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Speaker 3: but it doesn't matter about whether she finds anybody or not,

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Speaker 3: because she's found herself. That this woman who has been

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Speaker 3: a stranger in a sense in her own country, you know,

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Speaker 3: this man has unlocked the door, and that when you

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Speaker 3: see her in the mirror, she's walking through that mirror,

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Speaker 3: you know, into a completely new life.

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Speaker 1: I think goosebumps hearing that. That scene was very powerful.

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Speaker 2: I do like when Leo put your andies back on, that's.

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Speaker 1: Made himself.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to ruin it all this spoiler. That's

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Speaker 2: one of the best putting andies back on scenes I've

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Speaker 2: seen since been her, Yeah, since put the loin cloth

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Speaker 2: back on one of the horses. Well, Dame Emma Thompson,

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Speaker 2: this has been great. Do we call it?

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Speaker 3: Do you?

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Speaker 2: I always think with because I was instantly just not Emma.

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Speaker 2: But is it? Is it an a front if we

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Speaker 2: don't call you dame?

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Speaker 3: No, no, what d T or something like that. It

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Speaker 3: is quite good. But I always find myself of VT

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Speaker 3: right of course, of course, no. No. Mostly people say

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Speaker 3: if they use the the D the D word, it's

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Speaker 3: often Dame Thompson, which is so funny. What's nice about

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Speaker 3: it is it's Dame memmur, Dame Judy, Jame Maggie. It's

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Speaker 3: a nice little name. Thompson's hilarious.

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Speaker 2: Well, we look forward to the movie. I've seen it,

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Speaker 2: has seen it. It's coming out August eighteen. I'm looking

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Speaker 2: forward to the range of nineties with a strategic hole.

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Speaker 3: This could be a bit of merchant. I think merch.

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Speaker 3: The Nancy will call it. That was such fun. Thanks,

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Speaker 3: thank you lovely to be here.