WEBVTT - New hate symbol law faces its first test

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily OS. Oh, now it

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<v Speaker 1>makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, the second of October. I'm Harry, I'm emma.

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<v Speaker 1>In January, Australia banned symbols linked to terrorist organizations from

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<v Speaker 1>being displayed in public. National police haven't charged anyone yet

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<v Speaker 1>under these new laws, but protests over the weekend could

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<v Speaker 1>change that. Thousands of people marched through the streets in

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<v Speaker 1>multiple Australian cities to protest against the war in the

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<v Speaker 1>Middle East over the weekend. In today's deep dive, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>look at how these protests have caused a political firestorm,

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<v Speaker 1>sparking talk of visas, federal police powers, and an emergency

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<v Speaker 1>sitting of Parliament. The first EMMA. What's making headlines?

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<v Speaker 2>Iran has launched a missile attack on Israel. Over one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and eighty missiles fired on Tuesday. Israeli and US

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<v Speaker 2>officials say most of the missiles were shot down, but

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<v Speaker 2>a number evaded Israel's missile defense system and struck buildings

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<v Speaker 2>across the country. An IDF spokesperson said the attack would

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<v Speaker 2>have consequences, and White House National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan

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<v Speaker 2>said the US would work with Israel in its response

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<v Speaker 2>to Iran. Also overnight, six people were killed in what

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<v Speaker 2>Israeli police described as a terrorist attack in Tel Aviv,

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<v Speaker 2>Though it has not been confirmed if the two incidents

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<v Speaker 2>are connected, Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps said in a

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<v Speaker 2>statement the missile attack was in response to the killings

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<v Speaker 2>of Hesbala's leader, Hamas's political leader, and the IRCG commander.

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<v Speaker 2>It came hours after Israel announced it had launched what

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<v Speaker 2>it described as quote limited, localized and targeted raids in

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<v Speaker 2>southern Lebanon.

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<v Speaker 1>Democrat Tim Waltz and Republican jdvs chants will go head

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<v Speaker 1>to head for today's vice presidential debate. The VP hopefuls

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<v Speaker 1>will meet in New York for what's expected to be

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<v Speaker 1>their first and only debate with just over a month

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<v Speaker 1>to go until the US presidential election. Sixty year old

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<v Speaker 1>Minnesota Governor Waltz was announced as Kamala Harris's VP pick

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<v Speaker 1>in August, following a reshuffling of candidates after Joe Biden

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<v Speaker 1>dropped out. Trump announced thirty nine year old Ohio Senator JD.

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<v Speaker 1>Vance as his PEAK back in July, at the Republican

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<v Speaker 1>National Convention. The debate, hosted by CBS News, will begin

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<v Speaker 1>at eleven am Australian Eastern Standard time.

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<v Speaker 3>The Consumer Watchdog will receive an extra thirty million dollars

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<v Speaker 3>in government funding as it continues efforts to crack down

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<v Speaker 3>on the supermarket and retail sectors. The a trip will

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<v Speaker 3>See will receive the funding over the next three and

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<v Speaker 3>a half years. The money will go towards investigations and

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<v Speaker 3>regulation enforcement. After the A Triple C launched separate lawsuits

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<v Speaker 3>in the Federal Court against Coles and Woolworth's last week

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<v Speaker 3>for allegedly misleading customers over discount pricing. A Triple C

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<v Speaker 3>chair Gina Cascottlieb said the funding boost will enable the

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<v Speaker 3>watchdog to quote escalate a range of investigations, including in

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<v Speaker 3>relation to potential misleading pricing claims or practices, claims about

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<v Speaker 3>delivery time frames and costs, and businesses misrepresenting consumers' rights

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<v Speaker 3>under the Australian Consumer.

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<v Speaker 1>Law and today's good News. Australian scientists SIR a step

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<v Speaker 1>closer towards developing a breakthrough pregnancy safe epilepsy medication. Valproic

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<v Speaker 1>it's been linked to spinal court defects and other complications

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<v Speaker 1>in newborns when taken by pregnant women. Now, University of

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<v Speaker 1>Queensland researchers have identified a drug that could reverse the

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<v Speaker 1>harmful side effects of valproic acid. The conducted tests on

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<v Speaker 1>lapgrown spinal cords that closely mimic the spinal cord of

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<v Speaker 1>before they were exposed to valproic acid. Rapamsin prevented the

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<v Speaker 1>negative effects of the acid. Scientists said it means co

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<v Speaker 1>treatment of epilepsy using both drugs could open safe access

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<v Speaker 1>to an extremely effective treatment for women with epilepsy.

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<v Speaker 3>Harry on the podcast yesterday, Zara and I spoke about

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<v Speaker 3>hez Bala. Zara gave us some background on the group

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<v Speaker 3>based out of Lebanon, but overnight we saw the local

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<v Speaker 3>angle for Australians with this story really pivot and so

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<v Speaker 3>today we're talking about that Australian angle. After some protesters

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<v Speaker 3>were seen waving flags in support of Hezbola over the weekend,

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<v Speaker 3>So in particular the conversation. The reaction to that has

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<v Speaker 3>now turned to these new laws. We're going to get

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<v Speaker 3>to that, but first of all, can you talk us

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<v Speaker 3>through what we know about the weekend's protest action.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So just to recap really quickly, over the weekend,

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<v Speaker 1>the Australia Palestine Advocacy Network organized what it called a

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<v Speaker 1>Day of Action for Gaza. It called for quote, communities,

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<v Speaker 1>groups and individuals all around the country to stand for Gaza,

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<v Speaker 1>where data sided by the United Nations says more than

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<v Speaker 1>forty one thousand Palestine people have been killed by Israeli

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<v Speaker 1>forces since October last year. So that protest was organized

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<v Speaker 1>for Sunday and thousands of people turned out right across

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<v Speaker 1>the country, so Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth. So there were

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<v Speaker 1>people who went along to the protest, taking Lebanese and

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<v Speaker 1>Palestinian flags with them and brandishing those and calling for

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<v Speaker 1>an end to the violence that Ew and Zarup spoke

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<v Speaker 1>about in the pod yesterday.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, I just want to jump in here, Harry and

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<v Speaker 3>reiterate as we mentioned yesterday on the podcast. It's an

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<v Speaker 3>important distinction to make that Lebanon and Hezbola are two

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<v Speaker 3>different entities. So Hesbola is an Iranian backed group based

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<v Speaker 3>in Lebanon. The Australian government lists it as a terrorist

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<v Speaker 3>organization and the government of Lebanon isn't controlled by Hesbola,

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<v Speaker 3>but there are Hesbela representatives in Lebanon's parliament. Back home

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<v Speaker 3>to Australia where we had these protests over the weekend,

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<v Speaker 3>I think it would also be helpful to understand a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit about the representation of Lebanese people in Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>What is the kind of diaspora like here.

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<v Speaker 1>So according to the latest census data, there are about

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred and fifty thousand people in Australia who have

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<v Speaker 1>family ties to Lebanon. And so going back to the protests,

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<v Speaker 1>this was also held on the same weekend that Israel

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<v Speaker 1>confirmed that it the Hesbela leader, Hassan Nazraala.

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<v Speaker 3>So the timing of that was actually coincidental to these protests.

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<v Speaker 3>They'd already been organized when news of that death of

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<v Speaker 3>Hassan Israela's death in Lebanon buy an Israeli air strike emerged.

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<v Speaker 1>That's correct. And at these protests though there were some

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<v Speaker 1>people who were in attendance who had taken the Hesbelah

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<v Speaker 1>flag and they had also brought portraits of Nazraala to

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<v Speaker 1>the protests. Now, as you also mentioned, Emma, Australia lists

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<v Speaker 1>Hesbela as a terrorist organization. So that's how the conversation

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<v Speaker 1>moved from considering whether those flags and portraits that were

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<v Speaker 1>at these protests fell foul of the new hate symbols

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<v Speaker 1>legislation that's in Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So a lot has been said in the last

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<v Speaker 3>day about these hate speech laws. They're new, A lot

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<v Speaker 3>of people had interpreted them as meaning that these kinds

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<v Speaker 3>of symbols band at protests. So for anyone who's missed it,

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<v Speaker 3>can you talk us through these new laws?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so just zoom me out a bit. Over the

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<v Speaker 1>last couple of years, there's been some incidents involving neo

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<v Speaker 1>Nazis at certain protests in Australia, and the most notable

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<v Speaker 1>one involved in anti trans rally outside Victoria's Parliament last year,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was gate crashed by a group of neo

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<v Speaker 1>Nazis who were wearing all black. They were chanting some

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<v Speaker 1>white supremacists slurs and slogans and they were performing the

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<v Speaker 1>Nazi salute and in response to those incidents. The government

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<v Speaker 1>introduced laws to parliament in June last year to crack

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<v Speaker 1>down on publicly displaying hate symbols. Today, the Albanezi government

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<v Speaker 1>is taking a significant step toward sending a message that

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<v Speaker 1>astroner is united against displays of hate. In introducing the legislation,

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<v Speaker 1>the top law officer, the Attorney General, Mark Drafers he

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<v Speaker 1>was referring to the neo Nazi demonstrations specifically, and the

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<v Speaker 1>laws focused on those Nazi symbols and salutes. But if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at the law overall, they also ban public

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<v Speaker 1>displays of terrorist organizations.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so we've got legislation that's kind of borne out

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<v Speaker 3>of this trend of people bringing along Nazi flags, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>to these far right demonstrations. But the legislation reaches further

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<v Speaker 3>than that. So what does it reach? What does it include?

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<v Speaker 1>So to ban symbols linked to terrorist organizations broadens it

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<v Speaker 1>out a lot, actually, because Australia lists thirty organizations that

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<v Speaker 1>it considers terrorists in total. So this varies from the

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<v Speaker 1>white extremist group called the Base which is based out

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<v Speaker 1>of the US, to Hesbalah in Lebanon. Now, the hate

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<v Speaker 1>speech laws say that if you carry a symbol link

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<v Speaker 1>to one of those prescribed terrorist groups in public, you

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<v Speaker 1>could face a year in jail. But in addition to that,

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<v Speaker 1>police need to be satisfied that at least one of

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<v Speaker 1>the following situations occurred as a result of parading the

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<v Speaker 1>hate symbol. So the first is the public displaying of

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<v Speaker 1>the symbol spread ideas based on racial superiority or racial hatred.

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<v Speaker 1>The second is, by publicly displaying these symbols, it was

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<v Speaker 1>likely to motivate others to hate a person or group

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<v Speaker 1>because of their race. The third would be that it

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<v Speaker 1>would be trying to advocate for hating someone based on

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<v Speaker 1>their race or if they fall into one of the

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<v Speaker 1>targeted groups. And finally, if it was likely to offend, insult, intimidate,

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<v Speaker 1>or humiliate someone based on their race, their sex, their religion,

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<v Speaker 1>or a host of other personal attributes.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So those sort of caveats, I suppose are important

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<v Speaker 3>distinctions within the legislation. So it's not just enough to

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<v Speaker 3>send someone to jail for publicly displaying one of these symbols.

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<v Speaker 3>That symbol also has to meet one of those situations.

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<v Speaker 3>But I suppose it's quite complicated, because how do you

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<v Speaker 3>define the specifics of being offended or insulted or intimidated.

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<v Speaker 3>It's pretty vague, right.

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<v Speaker 1>It's pretty complicated. And the reason that there is those

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<v Speaker 1>prescriptions and those conditions under the law is so that

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<v Speaker 1>somewhere like a school that's teaching a class about Nazi

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<v Speaker 1>Germany in the nineteen thirties and forties wouldn't come under

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<v Speaker 1>these legislation for showing a Nazi flag.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So a museum is not going to be charged

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<v Speaker 3>with a federal offense if they have some kind of

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<v Speaker 3>paraphernalia because of historical and educational purposes.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, and that's what these law is meant to defend.

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<v Speaker 1>But also it wants to prosecute anyone that is trying

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<v Speaker 1>to to motivate some form of hatred as a result

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<v Speaker 1>of publicly displaying these symbols. So these laws were passed

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<v Speaker 1>in January this year, and since then there have been

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<v Speaker 1>two incidents that we know about in New South Wales

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<v Speaker 1>and Queensland that were called into question based on the

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<v Speaker 1>new laws. So those investigations, though they were conducted by

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<v Speaker 1>the state police, they didn't involve the federal police. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's where we get into what happened over the weekend

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<v Speaker 1>because it's the first time that the AFP have been

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<v Speaker 1>called in to look into something that might have fallen

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<v Speaker 1>foul of these new hate symbol laws.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so then under the new laws, and given what

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<v Speaker 3>we saw over the weekend, and there are photos and

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<v Speaker 3>videos that show people attending the protests or bit a

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<v Speaker 3>small number of people out of thousands attending these protests

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<v Speaker 3>holding what appeared to be Hesbella flags images of the

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<v Speaker 3>Hesbala leader who died in the Israeli strike. So was

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<v Speaker 3>anyone arrested over the weekend?

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<v Speaker 1>So I'll start in New South Wales police said that

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<v Speaker 1>they have arrested a twenty two year old man for

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<v Speaker 1>alleged assault during the protests in the Sydney CBD, but

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<v Speaker 1>he's now been released and there's an investigation underway, So

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<v Speaker 1>that's not related at all to these hate symbol laws.

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<v Speaker 1>What we have been hearing about and what the AFP

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<v Speaker 1>have confirmed, is that in Melbourne, the AFP have been

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<v Speaker 1>referred to six reports of crime that have been made

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<v Speaker 1>to them about questions over whether someone was displaying or

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<v Speaker 1>chanting something linked to a terrorist organization. Now there's nothing

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<v Speaker 1>we really know. In addition to that, at this stage.

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<v Speaker 3>So the AFP are looking into six reports in relation

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<v Speaker 3>to displays of potentially banned symbols at these protests. What

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<v Speaker 3>about the response to this more broadly, what have politicians

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<v Speaker 3>been saying?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you're right to talk about politicians. It did get

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<v Speaker 1>political really really quickly. So the Home Affairs Minister Tony

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<v Speaker 1>Burke issued a statement after the protests saying that there

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<v Speaker 1>was quote a higher level of scrutiny if anyone is

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<v Speaker 1>on a visa, saying the government had the power to

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<v Speaker 1>cancel a visa of anyone who was seeking to incite

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<v Speaker 1>discord by potentially displaying these symbols of hate. So I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's important to say here that we just don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if anyone attending these protests were actually visa holders

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<v Speaker 1>from overseas as well, and the AFP hasn't publicly released

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<v Speaker 1>that information either, and Tony Burke has clarified that no

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<v Speaker 1>visas have been canceled at this stage.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think this is a moment from the protests

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<v Speaker 3>or the aftermath that seems to have really dominated headlines,

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<v Speaker 3>this talk of canceling visas. But that implies that there

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<v Speaker 3>were visitors to this country who attended these protests and

0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 3>did the wrong thing. And as you mentioned, we really

0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 3>don't know.

0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.720
<v Speaker 1>No one's confirmed that. No authority has confirmed that. Tony

0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Burke didn't confirm that. The AFP haven't come confirmed that.

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 1>So it's exactly right. We just don't know what.

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 3>About Peter Dutton, the Opposition leader, because I know he

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.040
<v Speaker 3>has weighed in on this one. What's he said?

0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.240
<v Speaker 1>So Peter Dutton made a suggestion that the Federal Police,

0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.400
<v Speaker 1>which are the agency that's prosecuting the hate symbols that

0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 1>had been displayed in public, they needed more powers to

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 1>prosecute or if there was a bit of questioning about

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:29.080
<v Speaker 1>their ability to do their jobs, that the government needed

0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:33.840
<v Speaker 1>to close that loophole by passing legislation immediately. So he

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 1>was actually calling for Parliament to sit straight away to

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.280
<v Speaker 1>be recalled as an emergency sitting if the government did

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.920
<v Speaker 1>come to the conclusion that the laws needed to be strengthened.

0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.760
<v Speaker 3>And so this is kind of coming off the back

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.760
<v Speaker 3>of some comments from the AFP following the protests that

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.280
<v Speaker 3>some people had suggested were a little bit confusing that

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 3>there seemed to maybe be a bit of confusion within

0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:02.360
<v Speaker 3>the AFP itself about what met that threshold for those

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 3>federal laws to be prosecuted. So Dutton is suggesting Parliament

0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:11.680
<v Speaker 3>sit immediately to strengthen the laws, make it easier for

0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.800
<v Speaker 3>federal police to make arrests in relation to those laws.

0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 3>How would that happen?

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.080
<v Speaker 1>So the Parliament would have to be recalled, So all

0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 1>parliamentarians would have to go back to Canberra because they're

0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 1>on a break, that's right, But they are actually expected

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 1>to return to Camberra next week. But he saw it

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.760
<v Speaker 1>as such a matter of urgency that he was suggesting

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.680
<v Speaker 1>that the Prime Minister had the capacity to tell everybody

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 1>to come back a week early at least to pass

0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.160
<v Speaker 1>these strengthen laws. Now the government doesn't look like it

0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.880
<v Speaker 1>will be rashing back to camber at this stage. In

0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 1>a statement to TDA, the Attorney General Mark Dreyfus said,

0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 1>the government quote has faith in our police forces to

0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 1>enforce the law. And you talk about that confusion there

0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>with the AFP, and I think it's a very valid point,

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.520
<v Speaker 1>and part of it is because these are just such

0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.720
<v Speaker 1>new laws. There's no precedent that they can draw on

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.920
<v Speaker 1>to establish a way in which they can prosecute. There's

0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 1>no established wisdom among the AFP on how to go

0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.680
<v Speaker 1>about finding potential hate symbols out in public at a protest,

0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.440
<v Speaker 1>and so this is definitely new ground for them, and

0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.800
<v Speaker 1>I think what Peter Dutton was really wanting to confirm

0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 1>was there's just no confusion whatsoever. We're not talking about

0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Nazi symbols that might be in a classroom when there's

0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 1>a lesson on Nazi Germany. Necessarily we're talking about a

0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:42.800
<v Speaker 1>listed terrorist organization and the potential for those symbols appearing

0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.480
<v Speaker 1>at a demonstration to incite hatred. And so I think

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Peter Dutton was really at pains to say there can't

0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 1>be any confusion on the police's power to prosecute if

0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.120
<v Speaker 1>they're convinced that that falls foul of the new hate

0:17:56.160 --> 0:18:00.320
<v Speaker 1>symbol laws. The political debate around this is all also

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.560
<v Speaker 1>not likely to go away. We've heard from both Coalition

0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.359
<v Speaker 1>and Labor MPs who have said that this is a

0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:10.560
<v Speaker 1>concerning trend if there are people attending these protests with

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 1>hate symbols potentially, and we can expect to hear a

0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.800
<v Speaker 1>bit more about it next week when Parliament regimes. There

0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.199
<v Speaker 1>will be plenty of robust debate on the floor of

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.960
<v Speaker 1>both chambers. I can be almost certain of that.

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.879
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and as you mentioned, this is uncharted territory in

0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 3>terms of stress testing these new laws. And I think

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.399
<v Speaker 3>one of the reasons that there is so much public

0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.080
<v Speaker 3>interest is whatever happens from here will probably set the

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:44.280
<v Speaker 3>agenda for protests and demonstrations to come. Protesting is an

0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.359
<v Speaker 3>important part of any democracy, but you do want to

0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.439
<v Speaker 3>make sure that people who attend protests feel safe, that

0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.600
<v Speaker 3>members of the community don't feel intimidated by symbols that

0:18:55.680 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 3>are brought to those protests. So really really interesting stuff

0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.440
<v Speaker 3>here and we will as always keep a very close

0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:04.760
<v Speaker 3>eye on what comes next and keep you updated on

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.760
<v Speaker 3>The Daily Ods. Harry, thank you so much for explaining

0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.399
<v Speaker 3>it to us. Thank you so much for listening to

0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 3>today's episode of The Daily Ods. Don't forget to follow

0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 3>or subscribe wherever you are listening to us, or if

0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.440
<v Speaker 3>you're watching us over on our YouTube channel. We will

0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.360
<v Speaker 3>be back again tomorrow, but until then, have a great day.

0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.520
<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.359
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.080
<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present,