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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily OS. Oh, now it

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS.

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Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, the second of October. I'm Harry, I'm emma.

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Speaker 1: In January, Australia banned symbols linked to terrorist organizations from

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Speaker 1: being displayed in public. National police haven't charged anyone yet

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Speaker 1: under these new laws, but protests over the weekend could

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Speaker 1: change that. Thousands of people marched through the streets in

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Speaker 1: multiple Australian cities to protest against the war in the

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Speaker 1: Middle East over the weekend. In today's deep dive, we'll

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Speaker 1: look at how these protests have caused a political firestorm,

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Speaker 1: sparking talk of visas, federal police powers, and an emergency

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Speaker 1: sitting of Parliament. The first EMMA. What's making headlines?

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Speaker 2: Iran has launched a missile attack on Israel. Over one

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Speaker 2: hundred and eighty missiles fired on Tuesday. Israeli and US

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Speaker 2: officials say most of the missiles were shot down, but

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Speaker 2: a number evaded Israel's missile defense system and struck buildings

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Speaker 2: across the country. An IDF spokesperson said the attack would

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Speaker 2: have consequences, and White House National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan

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Speaker 2: said the US would work with Israel in its response

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Speaker 2: to Iran. Also overnight, six people were killed in what

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Speaker 2: Israeli police described as a terrorist attack in Tel Aviv,

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Speaker 2: Though it has not been confirmed if the two incidents

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Speaker 2: are connected, Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps said in a

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Speaker 2: statement the missile attack was in response to the killings

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Speaker 2: of Hesbala's leader, Hamas's political leader, and the IRCG commander.

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Speaker 2: It came hours after Israel announced it had launched what

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Speaker 2: it described as quote limited, localized and targeted raids in

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Speaker 2: southern Lebanon.

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Speaker 1: Democrat Tim Waltz and Republican jdvs chants will go head

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Speaker 1: to head for today's vice presidential debate. The VP hopefuls

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Speaker 1: will meet in New York for what's expected to be

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Speaker 1: their first and only debate with just over a month

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Speaker 1: to go until the US presidential election. Sixty year old

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Speaker 1: Minnesota Governor Waltz was announced as Kamala Harris's VP pick

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Speaker 1: in August, following a reshuffling of candidates after Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: dropped out. Trump announced thirty nine year old Ohio Senator JD.

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Speaker 1: Vance as his PEAK back in July, at the Republican

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Speaker 1: National Convention. The debate, hosted by CBS News, will begin

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Speaker 1: at eleven am Australian Eastern Standard time.

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Speaker 3: The Consumer Watchdog will receive an extra thirty million dollars

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Speaker 3: in government funding as it continues efforts to crack down

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Speaker 3: on the supermarket and retail sectors. The a trip will

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Speaker 3: See will receive the funding over the next three and

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Speaker 3: a half years. The money will go towards investigations and

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Speaker 3: regulation enforcement. After the A Triple C launched separate lawsuits

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Speaker 3: in the Federal Court against Coles and Woolworth's last week

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Speaker 3: for allegedly misleading customers over discount pricing. A Triple C

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Speaker 3: chair Gina Cascottlieb said the funding boost will enable the

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Speaker 3: watchdog to quote escalate a range of investigations, including in

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Speaker 3: relation to potential misleading pricing claims or practices, claims about

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Speaker 3: delivery time frames and costs, and businesses misrepresenting consumers' rights

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Speaker 3: under the Australian Consumer.

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Speaker 1: Law and today's good News. Australian scientists SIR a step

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Speaker 1: closer towards developing a breakthrough pregnancy safe epilepsy medication. Valproic

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Speaker 1: acid is commonly used in the treatment of epilepsy. However,

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Speaker 1: it's been linked to spinal court defects and other complications

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Speaker 1: in newborns when taken by pregnant women. Now, University of

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Speaker 1: Queensland researchers have identified a drug that could reverse the

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Speaker 1: harmful side effects of valproic acid. The conducted tests on

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Speaker 1: lapgrown spinal cords that closely mimic the spinal cord of

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Speaker 1: a fetus in the early weeks of gestation. The mini

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Speaker 1: cords were exposed to a clinically approved drug called rapamycin

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Speaker 1: before they were exposed to valproic acid. Rapamsin prevented the

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Speaker 1: negative effects of the acid. Scientists said it means co

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Speaker 1: treatment of epilepsy using both drugs could open safe access

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Speaker 1: to an extremely effective treatment for women with epilepsy.

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Speaker 3: Harry on the podcast yesterday, Zara and I spoke about

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Speaker 3: hez Bala. Zara gave us some background on the group

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Speaker 3: based out of Lebanon, but overnight we saw the local

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Speaker 3: angle for Australians with this story really pivot and so

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Speaker 3: today we're talking about that Australian angle. After some protesters

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Speaker 3: were seen waving flags in support of Hezbola over the weekend,

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Speaker 3: So in particular the conversation. The reaction to that has

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Speaker 3: now turned to these new laws. We're going to get

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Speaker 3: to that, but first of all, can you talk us

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Speaker 3: through what we know about the weekend's protest action.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So just to recap really quickly, over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: the Australia Palestine Advocacy Network organized what it called a

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Speaker 1: Day of Action for Gaza. It called for quote, communities,

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Speaker 1: groups and individuals all around the country to stand for Gaza,

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Speaker 1: where data sided by the United Nations says more than

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Speaker 1: forty one thousand Palestine people have been killed by Israeli

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Speaker 1: forces since October last year. So that protest was organized

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Speaker 1: for Sunday and thousands of people turned out right across

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Speaker 1: the country, so Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth. So there were

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Speaker 1: people who went along to the protest, taking Lebanese and

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Speaker 1: Palestinian flags with them and brandishing those and calling for

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Speaker 1: an end to the violence that Ew and Zarup spoke

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Speaker 1: about in the pod yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Now, I just want to jump in here, Harry and

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Speaker 3: reiterate as we mentioned yesterday on the podcast. It's an

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Speaker 3: important distinction to make that Lebanon and Hezbola are two

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Speaker 3: different entities. So Hesbola is an Iranian backed group based

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Speaker 3: in Lebanon. The Australian government lists it as a terrorist

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Speaker 3: organization and the government of Lebanon isn't controlled by Hesbola,

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Speaker 3: but there are Hesbela representatives in Lebanon's parliament. Back home

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Speaker 3: to Australia where we had these protests over the weekend,

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Speaker 3: I think it would also be helpful to understand a

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Speaker 3: little bit about the representation of Lebanese people in Australia.

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Speaker 3: What is the kind of diaspora like here.

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Speaker 1: So according to the latest census data, there are about

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand people in Australia who have

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Speaker 1: family ties to Lebanon. And so going back to the protests,

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Speaker 1: this was also held on the same weekend that Israel

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Speaker 1: confirmed that it the Hesbela leader, Hassan Nazraala.

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Speaker 3: So the timing of that was actually coincidental to these protests.

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Speaker 3: They'd already been organized when news of that death of

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Speaker 3: Hassan Israela's death in Lebanon buy an Israeli air strike emerged.

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Speaker 1: That's correct. And at these protests though there were some

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Speaker 1: people who were in attendance who had taken the Hesbelah

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Speaker 1: flag and they had also brought portraits of Nazraala to

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Speaker 1: the protests. Now, as you also mentioned, Emma, Australia lists

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Speaker 1: Hesbela as a terrorist organization. So that's how the conversation

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Speaker 1: moved from considering whether those flags and portraits that were

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Speaker 1: at these protests fell foul of the new hate symbols

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Speaker 1: legislation that's in Australia.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So a lot has been said in the last

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Speaker 3: day about these hate speech laws. They're new, A lot

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Speaker 3: of people had interpreted them as meaning that these kinds

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Speaker 3: of symbols band at protests. So for anyone who's missed it,

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Speaker 3: can you talk us through these new laws?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so just zoom me out a bit. Over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years, there's been some incidents involving neo

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Speaker 1: Nazis at certain protests in Australia, and the most notable

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Speaker 1: one involved in anti trans rally outside Victoria's Parliament last year,

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Speaker 1: and that was gate crashed by a group of neo

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Speaker 1: Nazis who were wearing all black. They were chanting some

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Speaker 1: white supremacists slurs and slogans and they were performing the

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Speaker 1: Nazi salute and in response to those incidents. The government

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Speaker 1: introduced laws to parliament in June last year to crack

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Speaker 1: down on publicly displaying hate symbols. Today, the Albanezi government

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Speaker 1: is taking a significant step toward sending a message that

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Speaker 1: astroner is united against displays of hate. In introducing the legislation,

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Speaker 1: the top law officer, the Attorney General, Mark Drafers he

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Speaker 1: was referring to the neo Nazi demonstrations specifically, and the

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Speaker 1: laws focused on those Nazi symbols and salutes. But if

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Speaker 1: you look at the law overall, they also ban public

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Speaker 1: displays of terrorist organizations.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so we've got legislation that's kind of borne out

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Speaker 3: of this trend of people bringing along Nazi flags, for example,

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Speaker 3: to these far right demonstrations. But the legislation reaches further

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Speaker 3: than that. So what does it reach? What does it include?

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Speaker 1: So to ban symbols linked to terrorist organizations broadens it

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Speaker 1: out a lot, actually, because Australia lists thirty organizations that

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Speaker 1: it considers terrorists in total. So this varies from the

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Speaker 1: white extremist group called the Base which is based out

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Speaker 1: of the US, to Hesbalah in Lebanon. Now, the hate

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Speaker 1: speech laws say that if you carry a symbol link

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Speaker 1: to one of those prescribed terrorist groups in public, you

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Speaker 1: could face a year in jail. But in addition to that,

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Speaker 1: police need to be satisfied that at least one of

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Speaker 1: the following situations occurred as a result of parading the

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Speaker 1: hate symbol. So the first is the public displaying of

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Speaker 1: the symbol spread ideas based on racial superiority or racial hatred.

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Speaker 1: The second is, by publicly displaying these symbols, it was

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Speaker 1: likely to motivate others to hate a person or group

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Speaker 1: because of their race. The third would be that it

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Speaker 1: would be trying to advocate for hating someone based on

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Speaker 1: their race or if they fall into one of the

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Speaker 1: targeted groups. And finally, if it was likely to offend, insult, intimidate,

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Speaker 1: or humiliate someone based on their race, their sex, their religion,

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Speaker 1: or a host of other personal attributes.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So those sort of caveats, I suppose are important

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Speaker 3: distinctions within the legislation. So it's not just enough to

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Speaker 3: send someone to jail for publicly displaying one of these symbols.

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Speaker 3: That symbol also has to meet one of those situations.

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Speaker 3: But I suppose it's quite complicated, because how do you

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Speaker 3: define the specifics of being offended or insulted or intimidated.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty vague, right.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty complicated. And the reason that there is those

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Speaker 1: prescriptions and those conditions under the law is so that

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Speaker 1: somewhere like a school that's teaching a class about Nazi

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Speaker 1: Germany in the nineteen thirties and forties wouldn't come under

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Speaker 1: these legislation for showing a Nazi flag.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So a museum is not going to be charged

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Speaker 3: with a federal offense if they have some kind of

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Speaker 3: paraphernalia because of historical and educational purposes.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and that's what these law is meant to defend.

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Speaker 1: But also it wants to prosecute anyone that is trying

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Speaker 1: to to motivate some form of hatred as a result

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Speaker 1: of publicly displaying these symbols. So these laws were passed

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Speaker 1: in January this year, and since then there have been

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Speaker 1: two incidents that we know about in New South Wales

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Speaker 1: and Queensland that were called into question based on the

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Speaker 1: new laws. So those investigations, though they were conducted by

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Speaker 1: the state police, they didn't involve the federal police. And

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Speaker 1: that's where we get into what happened over the weekend

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Speaker 1: because it's the first time that the AFP have been

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Speaker 1: called in to look into something that might have fallen

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Speaker 1: foul of these new hate symbol laws.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so then under the new laws, and given what

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Speaker 3: we saw over the weekend, and there are photos and

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Speaker 3: videos that show people attending the protests or bit a

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Speaker 3: small number of people out of thousands attending these protests

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Speaker 3: holding what appeared to be Hesbella flags images of the

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Speaker 3: Hesbala leader who died in the Israeli strike. So was

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Speaker 3: anyone arrested over the weekend?

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Speaker 1: So I'll start in New South Wales police said that

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Speaker 1: they have arrested a twenty two year old man for

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Speaker 1: alleged assault during the protests in the Sydney CBD, but

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Speaker 1: he's now been released and there's an investigation underway, So

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Speaker 1: that's not related at all to these hate symbol laws.

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Speaker 1: What we have been hearing about and what the AFP

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Speaker 1: have confirmed, is that in Melbourne, the AFP have been

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Speaker 1: referred to six reports of crime that have been made

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Speaker 1: to them about questions over whether someone was displaying or

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Speaker 1: chanting something linked to a terrorist organization. Now there's nothing

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Speaker 1: we really know. In addition to that, at this stage.

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Speaker 3: So the AFP are looking into six reports in relation

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Speaker 3: to displays of potentially banned symbols at these protests. What

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Speaker 3: about the response to this more broadly, what have politicians

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Speaker 3: been saying?

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Speaker 1: Well, you're right to talk about politicians. It did get

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Speaker 1: political really really quickly. So the Home Affairs Minister Tony

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Speaker 1: Burke issued a statement after the protests saying that there

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Speaker 1: was quote a higher level of scrutiny if anyone is

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Speaker 1: on a visa, saying the government had the power to

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Speaker 1: cancel a visa of anyone who was seeking to incite

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Speaker 1: discord by potentially displaying these symbols of hate. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's important to say here that we just don't

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Speaker 1: know if anyone attending these protests were actually visa holders

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Speaker 1: from overseas as well, and the AFP hasn't publicly released

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Speaker 1: that information either, and Tony Burke has clarified that no

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Speaker 1: visas have been canceled at this stage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is a moment from the protests

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Speaker 3: or the aftermath that seems to have really dominated headlines,

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Speaker 3: this talk of canceling visas. But that implies that there

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Speaker 3: were visitors to this country who attended these protests and

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Speaker 3: did the wrong thing. And as you mentioned, we really

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 1: No one's confirmed that. No authority has confirmed that. Tony

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Speaker 1: Burke didn't confirm that. The AFP haven't come confirmed that.

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Speaker 1: So it's exactly right. We just don't know what.

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Speaker 3: About Peter Dutton, the Opposition leader, because I know he

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Speaker 3: has weighed in on this one. What's he said?

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Speaker 1: So Peter Dutton made a suggestion that the Federal Police,

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Speaker 1: which are the agency that's prosecuting the hate symbols that

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Speaker 1: had been displayed in public, they needed more powers to

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Speaker 1: prosecute or if there was a bit of questioning about

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Speaker 1: their ability to do their jobs, that the government needed

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Speaker 1: to close that loophole by passing legislation immediately. So he

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Speaker 1: was actually calling for Parliament to sit straight away to

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Speaker 1: be recalled as an emergency sitting if the government did

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Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that the laws needed to be strengthened.

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Speaker 3: And so this is kind of coming off the back

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Speaker 3: of some comments from the AFP following the protests that

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Speaker 3: some people had suggested were a little bit confusing that

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Speaker 3: there seemed to maybe be a bit of confusion within

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Speaker 3: the AFP itself about what met that threshold for those

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Speaker 3: federal laws to be prosecuted. So Dutton is suggesting Parliament

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Speaker 3: sit immediately to strengthen the laws, make it easier for

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Speaker 3: federal police to make arrests in relation to those laws.

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Speaker 3: How would that happen?

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Speaker 1: So the Parliament would have to be recalled, So all

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Speaker 1: parliamentarians would have to go back to Canberra because they're

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Speaker 1: on a break, that's right, But they are actually expected

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Speaker 1: to return to Camberra next week. But he saw it

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Speaker 1: as such a matter of urgency that he was suggesting

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Speaker 1: that the Prime Minister had the capacity to tell everybody

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Speaker 1: to come back a week early at least to pass

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Speaker 1: these strengthen laws. Now the government doesn't look like it

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Speaker 1: will be rashing back to camber at this stage. In

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Speaker 1: a statement to TDA, the Attorney General Mark Dreyfus said,

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Speaker 1: the government quote has faith in our police forces to

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Speaker 1: enforce the law. And you talk about that confusion there

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Speaker 1: with the AFP, and I think it's a very valid point,

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Speaker 1: and part of it is because these are just such

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Speaker 1: new laws. There's no precedent that they can draw on

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Speaker 1: to establish a way in which they can prosecute. There's

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Speaker 1: no established wisdom among the AFP on how to go

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Speaker 1: about finding potential hate symbols out in public at a protest,

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Speaker 1: and so this is definitely new ground for them, and

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Speaker 1: I think what Peter Dutton was really wanting to confirm

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Speaker 1: was there's just no confusion whatsoever. We're not talking about

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Speaker 1: Nazi symbols that might be in a classroom when there's

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Speaker 1: a lesson on Nazi Germany. Necessarily we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: listed terrorist organization and the potential for those symbols appearing

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Speaker 1: at a demonstration to incite hatred. And so I think

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Speaker 1: Peter Dutton was really at pains to say there can't

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Speaker 1: be any confusion on the police's power to prosecute if

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Speaker 1: they're convinced that that falls foul of the new hate

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Speaker 1: symbol laws. The political debate around this is all also

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Speaker 1: not likely to go away. We've heard from both Coalition

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Speaker 1: and Labor MPs who have said that this is a

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Speaker 1: concerning trend if there are people attending these protests with

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Speaker 1: hate symbols potentially, and we can expect to hear a

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Speaker 1: bit more about it next week when Parliament regimes. There

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Speaker 1: will be plenty of robust debate on the floor of

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Speaker 1: both chambers. I can be almost certain of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and as you mentioned, this is uncharted territory in

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Speaker 3: terms of stress testing these new laws. And I think

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons that there is so much public

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Speaker 3: interest is whatever happens from here will probably set the

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Speaker 3: agenda for protests and demonstrations to come. Protesting is an

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Speaker 3: important part of any democracy, but you do want to

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Speaker 3: make sure that people who attend protests feel safe, that

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Speaker 3: members of the community don't feel intimidated by symbols that

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Speaker 3: are brought to those protests. So really really interesting stuff

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Speaker 3: here and we will as always keep a very close

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Speaker 3: eye on what comes next and keep you updated on

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Speaker 3: The Daily Ods. Harry, thank you so much for explaining

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Speaker 3: it to us. Thank you so much for listening to

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Speaker 3: today's episode of The Daily Ods. Don't forget to follow

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Speaker 3: or subscribe wherever you are listening to us, or if

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Speaker 3: you're watching us over on our YouTube channel. We will

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Speaker 3: be back again tomorrow, but until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present,