1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,200
Speaker 1: You are listening two three sixty and well. Joining me

2
00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,360
Speaker 1: on the line right now is the Police Association President

3
00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,360
Speaker 1: Paul Mchughue. Good morning to you, Paul.

4
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:09,920
Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

5
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:11,639
Speaker 3: Here are you going very well? Paul?

6
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,080
Speaker 1: Firstly, I do want to just ask you about, because

7
00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,040
Speaker 1: it's been raised with us a few times now, the

8
00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,000
Speaker 1: situation with the school based constables and the changes that

9
00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,040
Speaker 1: are coming into play when it comes to those school

10
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,079
Speaker 1: based constables. I know that we've got a number of

11
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 1: schools who are quite concerned about constables moving out and

12
00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:29,960
Speaker 1: auxiliaries moving in.

13
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 3: Where are things that from your perspective.

14
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously it's a very topical issue, isn't it. And

15
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:41,839
Speaker 2: I believe today these school based auxiliaries commence their training

16
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,240
Speaker 2: and you know, it's obviously your process that's coming to

17
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:50,640
Speaker 2: play through discussions with education with the Commissioner. We've been

18
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,840
Speaker 2: part of those discussions. But of course over the COVID time,

19
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 2: many of those school based constables have been redeployed for

20
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 2: extensive periods of time and this will be an interesting

21
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,400
Speaker 2: test to see how they believe it will work. We

22
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,120
Speaker 2: certainly understand there'll be upwards of ten auxiliaries deployed through

23
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 2: the Darwin area only in schools and they'll be supervised

24
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,760
Speaker 2: by a sergeant and a constable to deliver programs to schools.

25
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,240
Speaker 2: But of course, you know, I guess the test will

26
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,880
Speaker 2: come where there might be some instances at schools where

27
00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 2: they have to respond to them and we'll see how

28
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,080
Speaker 2: that pans out. But it's very much a trial phase

29
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,640
Speaker 2: and we'll be monitoring it very closely.

30
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,920
Speaker 1: All right, So it is a trial phase. But you

31
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: said they're actually commencing that training today, those axiliaries.

32
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe there's some axiliaries commencing today doing some

33
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,240
Speaker 2: additional training to determine how they'll roll out their duties

34
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 2: at those schools. But of course we've you know, we

35
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 2: made a clear our views in terms of making sure

36
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 2: they're Our primary concern is their safety, they're welfare and

37
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 2: making sure that they have the tools necessary to do

38
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 2: or they're being asked to do so. And we also

39
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,760
Speaker 2: need to consider those constables that were doing the job

40
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 2: and making sure they're being looked after and being deployed

41
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,680
Speaker 2: to areas that's suitable for them. But obviously it's been

42
00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,120
Speaker 2: a work in progress and that'll kick off very shortly.

43
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,960
Speaker 2: But no doubt there will be concerns from schools, and

44
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,680
Speaker 2: we'll be keen to obviously monitor the role out.

45
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:16,919
Speaker 3: Do you think it can work?

46
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 2: Look, we're obviously primarily concerned with the role they're going

47
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 2: to be undertaking and making sure they've got the appropriate training,

48
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,639
Speaker 2: the actual supervision and skills and mentoring to be able

49
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 2: to do that role. Of course, they're our members and

50
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 2: we will wasting them through that process, but you've got

51
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,920
Speaker 2: to make sure. What we don't want to see is

52
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 2: a lack of mentoring, a lack of supervision and them

53
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 2: being essentially left to fend for themselves in a role

54
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,079
Speaker 2: they've never done before. So we'll be very keen to

55
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,560
Speaker 2: see how it works, and obviously making sure they have

56
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 2: the appropriate tools to do it well.

57
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,040
Speaker 1: We'll be keeping it very close on that, and I

58
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,240
Speaker 1: know that we've already got schools in contact with us

59
00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 1: this morning who are really worried about these changes. Now, Paul,

60
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 1: I know that so that obviously you had your recent survey.

61
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,960
Speaker 1: The Police Association conducted that recent survey and there was

62
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 1: some fairly startling facts in there in the sense that

63
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,240
Speaker 1: you know, we've got officers either looking as or have

64
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,720
Speaker 1: applied to leave the force here in the Northern Territory

65
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,560
Speaker 1: and head into state. How would you say things are

66
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 1: tracking at the moment.

67
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Obviously there were sixty percent of the respondents in

68
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,239
Speaker 2: our surveys that they considered applying or had applied for

69
00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 2: job outside the NT police force. Now that's on top

70
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,320
Speaker 2: of seventy seven police percent of police believing there's not

71
00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 2: enough and eighty eight percent concern with the attrition rate,

72
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,240
Speaker 2: which obviously haven't slowed up. We're talking about at the

73
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,120
Speaker 2: moment thirteen a month departing the police force. Now, all

74
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,400
Speaker 2: of that adds up to a very concerning point from

75
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 2: our perspective. And this isn't to startle people. This is

76
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 2: to make sure we've got enough police and experience in

77
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 2: our organization. And some of the quotes back in our

78
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 2: survey people feel disposable and we don't want that to

79
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 2: be the case. What we want to make sure has

80
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 2: got enough seniority in the police force. But right now,

81
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,720
Speaker 2: clearly according to our survey, they are quite concerned with

82
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,200
Speaker 2: the amount of people leaving, quite concerned there's not enough

83
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 2: police to do the job. And they've made it clear why,

84
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,480
Speaker 2: and that is that they're feeling unsupported at the top

85
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,479
Speaker 2: level of the police force. Now, I know many of

86
00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 2: those senior officers work extremely hard, but this is the

87
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 2: feeling of the membership. It's our job to actually portray

88
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 2: that feeling. It's not our job to point fingers, but

89
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 2: it's our job, a responsibility on behalf of our members

90
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,839
Speaker 2: to say what the problems are and by gossing over

91
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,080
Speaker 2: those problems isn't helping anyone. And they are the stats, Paul.

92
00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: Do we have enough police on you know, like in

93
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 1: the force right now? I know that sources have told

94
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 1: us that that there has been issues with manning the

95
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 1: watchhouse out in Palmerston.

96
00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,720
Speaker 3: Have we got enough police? How are things going.

97
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,080
Speaker 1: Well?

98
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 2: Obviously it's you know, it's a real concern. When I've

99
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:04,880
Speaker 2: been doing a lot of travel in the last couple

100
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 2: of weeks to our major centers outside of Darwin. We've

101
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,680
Speaker 2: got to have a couple of meetings within the Dalen

102
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,360
Speaker 2: area and the major obviously is the fact we don't

103
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,880
Speaker 2: have enough people to do the job. Now. People, it's

104
00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,120
Speaker 2: interesting point, k when you actually go and talk to

105
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 2: the stations, they say, look, if we just were able

106
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 2: to keep the people on our rosters, we would actually

107
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 2: have enough to go out and do the job being

108
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,200
Speaker 2: asked of us. But the problem is they keep getting

109
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 2: taken to be gre deployed into other areas and that

110
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 2: goes across the board, General Duties, crime and many other sections.

111
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,039
Speaker 2: So you know we're talking about the additional workload of COVID.

112
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,039
Speaker 2: We know that that's had a massive increase to the

113
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 2: workload of our officers and that is definitely having an impact.

114
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,720
Speaker 2: Yet we don't seem to see the same concern from

115
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,440
Speaker 2: government around the fact that they don't believe there's enough.

116
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 2: They keep saying we've got more than enough, We've got

117
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 2: more than ever before, but that's not reflecting in the

118
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,360
Speaker 2: feedback we're getting and that's a major concern.

119
00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,920
Speaker 1: Paul Easy Palmerston Police Station Watchhouse operating as normal.

120
00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,719
Speaker 2: I believe it is at the moment. I believe there's

121
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 2: been occasions over the last week or so where they've

122
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,160
Speaker 2: had to close that watchhouse because of lack of staffing.

123
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,680
Speaker 2: Now that could be through illness, it could be through

124
00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 2: simply not having enough to do the job. But when

125
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,240
Speaker 2: we're in a situation when we're looking at closing down

126
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 2: important facilities such as that running some of our remote

127
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,680
Speaker 2: stations that reduce numbers, and of course many of our

128
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,800
Speaker 2: general duties frontline and crime areas that significantly reduced numbers.

129
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 2: It clearly says we don't have enough and that's a

130
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,200
Speaker 2: major concern for us when you look at what's coming

131
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 2: in the next of of six to twelve months with COVID.

132
00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,920
Speaker 1: So we have had a situation, or we've had occasions

133
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,080
Speaker 1: over the last week or so where the Palmerston Watchhouse

134
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 1: has not been operational, that's correct, Yeah, over what kind

135
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:53,160
Speaker 1: of period of time?

136
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I don't specifically know, as I said, it

137
00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,200
Speaker 2: could be a shift or two, but I do know

138
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,360
Speaker 2: typically that had to close down because of a lack

139
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 2: of resourcing. Now you know that doesn't mean there wasn't

140
00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 2: a watchhouse facility operating. We do know the daal On

141
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 2: Watchhouse is open as well at the moment. What that

142
00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,920
Speaker 2: means is all those officers who generally use Palmerston will

143
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 2: have to then come back into dah and do to

144
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 2: place their prisoners in the watchhouse down there. So it

145
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 2: has a severe impact on the capabilities of the front

146
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 2: line enough to operate it on that particular occasion.

147
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 3: Worry is that from your perspective.

148
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we don't want to ever see that. I mean,

149
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 2: we know for a fact that many of our facilities,

150
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 2: many of the Watchhouse, the front line, is reliant totally

151
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,640
Speaker 2: on overtime at certain times, and that's a concern because

152
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 2: certainly when you look at some of the comments in

153
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,680
Speaker 2: our server that have been direct from the membership, they

154
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 2: simply say they're tired, their families are tired. We keep

155
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 2: getting more and more work piled on us, and these

156
00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 2: is a quote the expectation will keep doing. Eventually we'll

157
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,240
Speaker 2: get the breaking point, and we know that's actually happening,

158
00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,760
Speaker 2: and that is a major concern for us. And I'm

159
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 2: not trying to be alarmist. I'm just simply saying, as

160
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 2: we know with other frontline agencies, they're all struggling and

161
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,560
Speaker 2: the government needs to be aware of that and we

162
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 2: need to have a plan for that well.

163
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,400
Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul McHugh, I always appreciate your time.

164
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 3: Mate, Thank you very.

165
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,320
Speaker 1: Much for having a chat with us this morning, and

166
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:23,960
Speaker 1: we will talk to you again very soon.

167
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:26,520
Speaker 3: Thanks Gatie, Thank you