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Speaker 1: Now, I know that plenty of you have seen that

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Speaker 1: there's been a bungle with the Northern Territory government's concession scheme,

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Speaker 1: with payments being made to pensioners twice. It is understood

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Speaker 1: that about two thousand people are going to have to

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Speaker 1: repay back between two hundred and fifty and three hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars after those payments were made to local councils and

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Speaker 1: individual recipients. Now, the Chief Minister told the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: News that there'd be an investigation and that there will

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Speaker 1: be flexibility in recouping the funds with Christmas around the corner.

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Speaker 1: But I tell you what, listening and reading a lot

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Speaker 1: of the messages that we're receiving on the text line,

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Speaker 1: people are going no way. Those pensioners shouldn't have to

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Speaker 1: repay those payments. But look, joining me on the line

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Speaker 1: right now to shed a bit more light on the

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Speaker 1: situation is Sue Shearer. She's the CEO of the Council

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Speaker 1: of the Aging here in the Northern Territory. Good morning, Sue, Good.

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Speaker 2: Morning Katie from south of the border down alisbry Ye.

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Speaker 1: How are things going in Alice this morning?

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Speaker 2: I've been hot, but it's a bit sad to see

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Speaker 2: that a lot of shops are closed actually, to be honest.

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Speaker 2: But hopefully things will improve for people down here.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I hope we are all hoping so, particularly after

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory governments announcement yesterday. But time will tell,

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Speaker 1: I guess sir, now tell me, yeah, what are these

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Speaker 1: concession payments for?

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Speaker 2: The concession payments are for their rates. But I'd also

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Speaker 2: like to clarify people are saying pensioners should be allowed

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Speaker 2: to keep it. It's not just pensioners that received that

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Speaker 2: particular mistake. Actually, it's the pensioner Concession Scheme is the

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Speaker 2: name of the actual database. Okay, But if you recall

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Speaker 2: back in twenty seventeen eighteen, there was a huge review

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Speaker 2: of that particular scheme and then they changed it to

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Speaker 2: people who only people who are on some sort of

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Speaker 2: pension could come on in the future from eighteen onwards. However,

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Speaker 2: the people who were already on that scheme were grandfathered over, okay,

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Speaker 2: so they still received the concessions like electricity and rates

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Speaker 2: and all different things as well in relation to that.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of people would they be? So who

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Speaker 1: else could be on there besides pensioners in concession card holders.

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Speaker 2: If you recall Claire Martin as an incentive to keep

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Speaker 2: seniors here said everybody, no matter what their economic status was,

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Speaker 2: could go on that scheme. So a woman when they

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Speaker 2: were sixty could go on that scheme then and there

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Speaker 2: I think it was either two thousand and four election,

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Speaker 2: three four election, and then obviously they're a man when

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Speaker 2: they were sixty five. So there's people on it who

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Speaker 2: were still working who you know, were very very economically

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Speaker 2: stable as well. So for people to say it's just pensioners,

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Speaker 2: that's not quite correct. It's actually the mistake went out

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Speaker 2: to people like self funded retirees and probably a lot

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Speaker 2: of people who are still working as well. So you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a bit of an anomaly there on people say

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Speaker 2: pension is everybody who goes to keep it. Really that

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Speaker 2: there's a little bit of a difference there on the

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Speaker 2: people who received it. And also, you know, one good

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Speaker 2: thing is that particular department, with that particular provider of

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Speaker 2: that database, they have been funded to replace that database

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Speaker 2: because it is exceptionally old. As we know, sometimes people

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Speaker 2: don't look after the infrastructure, infrastructure incluses obviously database like

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Speaker 2: with optics. You know, we really do have to spend

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Speaker 2: money on these critical things like databases, so being funded

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Speaker 2: to replace.

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Speaker 1: So tell me, you know what exactly has happened with

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Speaker 1: this bungle from your perspective.

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Speaker 2: I think unfortunately the database normally, when people go in

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Speaker 2: to pay their rates, okay they're on from the Darwin

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Speaker 2: City Council, it's taken off their rates. Okay, two hundred

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Speaker 2: and three hundred is taken off their rates, So they pay,

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Speaker 2: they get the concession then and they're a bit like

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Speaker 2: with the motor vehicle as well. We know you pay

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Speaker 2: with the Seniors cards, you know, you get the fifty

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Speaker 2: five dollars off you when you pay your and also

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Speaker 2: with concession when you pay your motor vehicles are the

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Speaker 2: same thing. Then what happens I believe I've been told

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Speaker 2: that then the department the menial concession reimburses Darwin City Council, right,

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Speaker 2: but what happened with this They reimburse the people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so that's a double one.

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Speaker 2: I'd already when they'd already had that concession taken off.

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Speaker 1: So so what impact is this now going to have

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Speaker 1: on seniors in the lead up to Christmas? You know,

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Speaker 1: I know that you've said that that database is more

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Speaker 1: you know, more diverse than that, it's not just seniors

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Speaker 1: on there. But from your perspective as the CEO of KLOTA,

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Speaker 1: what impact is this now going to have on those

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Speaker 1: seniors that have received a double payment and now have

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Speaker 1: to repay it.

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Speaker 2: I said, well, it's really only a game for homeowners.

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Speaker 2: Let's remember this is these are the rate payers who

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Speaker 2: own a home, so in that aspect as well. So yes,

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Speaker 2: there's a little bit of confusion there. At least I

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Speaker 2: don't have to pay it back before Christmas. It'll be

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Speaker 2: after Christmas, but again there'll be a prepayment. And I

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Speaker 2: have mentioned in a department that maybe next year they

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Speaker 2: don't get that concession. But as when we discuss that,

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Speaker 2: it's as you as I've explained to you, it's a

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Speaker 2: complicated system in one way, So for them maybe not

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Speaker 2: to receive the concession next year, but then they probably

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Speaker 2: with the Darwin City Council and their database as well,

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Speaker 2: it's rather involved. But they have had a lot of

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Speaker 2: people who do want to pay it back. They realize

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Speaker 2: the mistake, but they have to wait till they get

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Speaker 2: the invoice. As I said before, sometimes the government makes

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Speaker 2: it their own worth, the enemy make itself difficult to

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Speaker 2: pay back money, so hopefully but at least say now

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Speaker 2: they can pay it back after Christmas, but also do

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Speaker 2: a pre payment plan.

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Speaker 1: So so based on based on the info that you've

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Speaker 1: now got, based on the fact that it is just

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Speaker 1: time owners, how many seniors do you do you think

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Speaker 1: have been impacted? Do you know?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's over, it's over. It's about five hundred thousand,

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Speaker 2: So I wouldn't say with a pension concession scheme. And

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Speaker 2: I said, there's with the anti Seniors card, there's fourteen

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Speaker 2: thousand people on that particular database. That's sixty five and over.

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Speaker 2: That's different where they receive the five hundred dollars debit card.

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Speaker 2: So on this one, I would say there's probably roundabout

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Speaker 2: because a lot were carried over. But as I said,

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Speaker 2: natural attrition also with that scheme as well, I'd hesitate

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Speaker 2: to say that luckily only two thousand people, but overall

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Speaker 2: there's probably around about sixteen thousand on that particular scheme.

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Speaker 2: And I see a lot of people were carried over.

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Speaker 2: And you recall back remember when the seal started in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, and then you know then there's been

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Speaker 2: a little bit of changes, and then when the SEALP

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Speaker 2: came in, they changed it back again to only pension

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Speaker 2: it could receive all that. And then when you know,

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Speaker 2: it was originally, as I said Claire Martin, as an

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Speaker 2: incentive to keep seniors in and in two sixteen seventeen,

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Speaker 2: the treasurer at the time, Dave told me said yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Also it does sound as though there's definitely some issues

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Speaker 1: to work through there, but by the sounds of it,

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Speaker 1: that database is now going to be changing, so hopefully

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Speaker 1: that has an impact. We are going to have to

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Speaker 1: leave it there. Unfortunately, we've got a full show lined up. Sousharer,

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Kota, the counsel of the aging here

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory. Always appreciate your time. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for chatting with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Pleasure Katie. Nice to hear some dulceed tones.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,