1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: Right now, the Lord Mayor of Darwin convat scarlets happy 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Greek Easter for the weekend, con the. 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 2: Same to you care and can you heard the explosive 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: way we Greek celebrate Easter. 5 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 3: Might that won me up in the middle of night 6 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 3: on Saturday. 7 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 4: It's fantastic. 8 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: It's good to keep this traditional alive and well and 9 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 2: safe too, because I have to say we never had 10 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 2: a problem, which is really really good to hear. 11 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 4: But it's one of the things that makes Darwin Darwin. 12 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: It truly does. And even yesterday afternoon I went for 13 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: I went for a run. My daughter was on a bike. 14 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 1: You ride along East Point there or you go along 15 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: East Point and there's all these wonderful Greek families. They're 16 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: celebrating Greek Easter. It's a really nice thing to see. 17 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: But it's really nice to see east Point activated like that's. 18 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 2: So nice and looks so beautiful and it's got It's 19 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 2: one of the best things in darw that actually can 20 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 2: go and do a celebration like that in the foreshore. 21 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: And if it was all for the pumpters, you think 22 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 2: you're in Greece somewhere because the color of the water 23 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: has changed from the greeny color. You get your the 24 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: wet precision to real blue. I was at the beginning 25 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 2: of the season for in the yacht club the other day. 26 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 4: And just look magnificently there. It's such a beautiful place. 27 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 4: What a place to live it is. 28 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 3: It is a beautiful place. And do you know what 29 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: made me think as well? 30 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: Like along the espanade, the waterfront, it's all so beautiful 31 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: Culum Bay. And then once vest Is is at a 32 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: point where it is able to be utilized by families. 33 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: You know, we're pretty well all the way out to Casarina. 34 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: We're surrounded by water and beautiful spots. 35 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 3: Let's utilize all the time. 36 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: We've got the best coastline in Australia and we all 37 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: sit inside that conditional rooms to get dinner or breakfast 38 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 2: or lunch. Come on, guys, do something different. 39 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: Get out and about get amongst it now, Corn, there's 40 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: lots to talk about. I want to get a bit 41 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: of an update on the rate situation with the airport 42 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: the Has there been any kind of update in terms 43 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: of the Airport Development Group sort of getting back to 44 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: the table with the Darwin City Council. 45 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: Well, we're still waiting. What you read in newspapers when 46 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: we try to talk to them some sense. The interesting 47 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: thing is the previous administration had no problem paying the 48 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: great equivalent. These guys somehow, I don't know why they 49 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: don't want to do it, and they excuseually don't provide 50 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 2: a service. I'm sorry, We provide the same service providing 51 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: you to what we provide to other big organizations. 52 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: So that's something the big question con so some of 53 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: the other big organizations, do they pay a writer equivalent. 54 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 4: Yes, big shopping centers, they're doing everything else. Now. The 55 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 4: other thing is even if they're even. 56 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: If they've got their own service providers that take the 57 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: rubbish to the chief and. 58 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 4: Now what they're going to do. 59 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: They're going to better in the airport, which is not 60 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: a great idea. The other thing you have to remember 61 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 2: that the airport has expanded in the air side, so 62 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: we could not significant volume of water when it rains 63 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: come down and guess where it goes to the council 64 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: drains to go to the sea and has created some 65 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: problems with a lot of water going to Rapid Creek 66 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: and the government had to make the attention basion. 67 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 4: So they don't use your services. It's bullshit. 68 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: Are using our services, not directly. We don't pick up 69 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: your rabbish beans, but you're using our drains and you 70 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: use our rabbits tif we council is not going to 71 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: charge them full rates. We know that we Chines charge 72 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: the rate equivalent. The funny thing is if you got 73 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: the website, it says clearly they charge their tenants rates 74 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 2: equivalent so they can pay their rags the council. 75 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: So Corn, what is your message today for the Airport 76 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: Development Group? 77 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: You just want to get back to the title. 78 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: Corporate citizen pay your age like every other person, and 79 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: corporation pays rates. 80 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 4: I said you before. 81 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: If if they get away with it, that means your 82 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: age has to go up because we have to cover 83 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: that deficit and it's one percent increase in the rate 84 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: for every seven hundred. 85 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: And if they don't come back to the typle, is 86 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: this going to land in court? 87 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 4: Absolutely? 88 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: I think it's only fair if we ask every other 89 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: citizen down to pay rags, that they pay their fair 90 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: sare It's not that don't make. 91 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: May not right, pays not going to be footing the 92 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: bill for the council to take id. 93 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: It's not fair, it's not fair for mister and missus 94 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: average to bail out a big, multinational, multimillion dollar corporation. 95 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: Just be I mean, my argument is, come on, guys, 96 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: the previous guy's paid. Why all of a sudden you 97 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: change your mind you don't want to pay? 98 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 4: Simple as that. 99 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and I think it's a good question. What like, 100 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: why do you think that is? 101 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 4: I don't know. 102 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: It's something that the currently they have to ask themselves, 103 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: and certainly we'll be talking. We talked, we talked to 104 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,239 Speaker 2: the common The COMMO says it's fair to charge rate. 105 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 3: Equivalent, you know, like another stay. 106 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:32,799 Speaker 4: They pay, they pay. 107 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: And there was a cost A court case in Hobbard 108 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: where exactly the airport in Hobbity is refused to pay 109 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 2: rates and the court decides, no, you don't have to 110 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: pay full rates like the ass we have to. 111 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: Pay the rat My big concern here is I do 112 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: not want that getting passed on to down and right pass. 113 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: I do not think that that is say it bluntly, 114 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: I would not let that be passed to the other 115 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: rate pairs. 116 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 4: If we have to go to court, so bid, we 117 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 4: don't want it. But if they want it. 118 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: So bid, all right, Connor, I do want to ask 119 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: you about the situation with John Johns. Last week we 120 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: spoke to John Koenig about the terrible behavior that he's 121 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: grappling with in our CBD. Then over the weekend I've 122 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: seen the security vision again. He's had an incident where 123 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: someone's come and stolen his signs, put them out in 124 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: the middle of the road. When John's gone out there 125 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: to getty sign. He's then ended up in a situation 126 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: where this boke spat on his hands and offered him 127 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: out for a fight, which is appalling. It's appalling that 128 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: this kind of business is happening in broad daylight every. 129 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 4: Day and just across from the police station. 130 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 3: What's the point, con. 131 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: My point is where's the police? I know the situation 132 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: with John john send me videos. I've seen it very well. 133 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 2: Council actually is aware of the situation. We're going to 134 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: actually take some measures, for example, increase the lighting of 135 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 2: the place to discourage people gathering there. We have already 136 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 2: asked the police to put one of their mobile cicityvis. 137 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: We're going to increase our assertive security people going around 138 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: and have around. But the other thing is I saw 139 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 2: on Friday night there's a vent there that sells Hamburgers. 140 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: It was doing crazy business. There are a lot of people 141 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 2: there sitting down having a hamburger. Families not a problem. 142 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: It looks like there's some idiots that actually behaving badly 143 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: and are sympathized with john That should not happen. And 144 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: I've seen other places, not only Johnson, other places in 145 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: the mall. The other day, I've got a message email 146 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: from a person who's got a business in Galleria. In 147 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 2: the middle of the day, a drunk person walked in 148 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 2: bag we have full of himself and yelling and abusing people. 149 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 4: And everybody got up and left. 150 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 2: And I said before to you, when we had the 151 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: check quays in the mall, this didn't happen. We had 152 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: the foot patrols in the mall, this happened, but there 153 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: were the police. And that's my argument, and that's Vin 154 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 2: Skelley's arguments too. You need more police on the streets. 155 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: And I have to say that. EVA finally said, yeah, 156 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 2: we're going to get two hundred more police. We're going 157 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: to increase the patrols, but we have to do. 158 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 4: That one quickly. 159 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: Well, so she's also said that they are going to 160 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: commit to keeping the security in our CBD in the 161 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: main time, until those police numbers are bolstered, she's calling 162 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: on you to step up. 163 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: We four years ago where we were asked to contribute 164 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: to that one. So until the police numbers increase, we 165 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: said the era fair enough, we'll do it. Spend two 166 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: point one million dollars over four years. We haven't seen 167 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: one extra police. Only just before the elections we see 168 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: an announcement about policeman. Now we've spent three million dollars 169 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 2: on security for our community. Increased lighting in areas where 170 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: we know it's dark to discourage people. We've got the 171 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: group that goes out every morning in every single park. 172 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: They know that people that actually slip there and find 173 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: out what's happening. We've got the arranges from five days 174 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: a weeks go out seven days a week. It's not 175 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: like we're sitting on our hands doing nothing. We're actually 176 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: doing it. 177 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, and I totally get the argument. 178 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: I understand that it is the job of the police 179 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: to keep the community safe, and I don't disagree with you. 180 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: I think everybody in the community would agree with that. 181 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: But we're in a situation right now where we need 182 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: that stop gap and people do need that security around 183 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: the place. You know, some of what we're experiencing is appalling, 184 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: it's appalling behavior. And again I get what you're saying, 185 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, should the council still provide some 186 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: funding while the government is committing to us. 187 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 2: The responsibility of law and order is the territory government, 188 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: full stop. Council does what he has done on his 189 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: own side. Now if the patrols are so effective, well, 190 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: we've still got a situations like John, John, why still 191 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: we've got situations who drunk people work into shopping centers 192 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: and making it mesia and why that's. 193 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: In the meantime just like because that's how the community 194 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: is feeling. 195 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: Colm, Like, what do we do? We just go? 196 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: Do you know what? 197 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 3: Bugger? 198 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: Do I want? 199 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 4: You know my history? 200 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: When I was elected first time in two thousand and one, 201 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: there were nine hundred police in the police force, and not. 202 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 4: The territory, they were everywhere. 203 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: We've got sixteen hundred now now seven hundred policemen more. 204 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: It looks like something do you raise these concerns? Have 205 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: you raised these concerns with the police commissioner? Because it 206 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: sounds like you feel as though you know the police, 207 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: these aren't doing that real high kind of visual on policing. 208 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 4: Don't blame the police. 209 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: We have put a lot of trust. Never blame the police. 210 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: We have put a lot on the police plan, a lot, 211 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: a lot of things for the police player. 212 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 4: And we should look something different. 213 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: For example, a lot of the time, from what I 214 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: hear from policemen or they talk to me, a lot 215 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 2: of the time is taken with domestic violence. He's the police, 216 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: the most appropriate organization deal with domestic viol or should 217 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: find another way. The other thing is Alice Springs when 218 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: mayhem who caused the problem some of the inaction or 219 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: wrong actions of governments. The other thing about the patrols 220 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 2: is I haven't heard yet. 221 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 3: No, she has committed this morning. She's committed that if 222 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 3: she gets elected, she's going to keep it going. 223 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: Good to hear, and I hope that the government pays 224 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: for it, because I don't think that the rap payer 225 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: in Akara and Tiwhi and Nightclif should pay for patrol. 226 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 4: Only for the CIBID. 227 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: Cann't you worry though, about the way that your right 228 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: players are going to react to this like that They're 229 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: going to be quite upset if the city. 230 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 2: Push about a lot of the government responsibilities slowly and 231 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: steadily pushed onto the. 232 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 3: Local guns, what's your message for the government today. 233 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 4: Step up, step up, get the police. You've got the 234 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 4: review in front of you. Tell you. 235 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 2: The review done by Vince Scaley clearly states that patrols 236 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: do not work. 237 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 4: Police does. That's what I want, follow the advice by 238 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 4: the experts.