1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Jersey and Amanda jam Nation. You may have read the 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: book or heard of the series, The Tattooists of Auschwitz. 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: It's the heartbreaking story of Lali and Gita Sokolov, who 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: met and fell in love with the most horrendous conditions 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: while prisoner's in Alschwitz. Over eight decades later, Gary, their 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: only son, has taken the harrowing journey back to the 7 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: place where his parents love story began, and he joins us. 8 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: Now, Hello, Gary, good morning, How you were good. 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 3: Thanks thanks for joining us. 10 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much. Neither of your parents ever 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: went back, did they? 12 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 3: No? 13 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 2: Unfortunately not so. The story behind my journey was about 14 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: five weeks before my father passed away in two thousand 15 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: and six. I came home and Heather Morris was over 16 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:48,319 Speaker 2: and Dad there was a. 17 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: Woman who wrote the story with him, The Tattooists correct. 18 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: To Auschwitz, And he said to me, they did like 19 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: to go back to Auschwitz. And I said, Dad, really surprised, 20 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: you've never mentioned wanting to go anywhere in Europe. And 21 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 2: he said to me that he needs to apologize to 22 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 2: the people whose lives he couldn't save. And my biggest 23 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: regret was not literally jumping on a plane the next 24 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: day and taking him to OUs, which because five weeks 25 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: later he passed away. And that's been playing very heavily 26 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: on my mind that I needed to finally make that trip. 27 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: I've tried four times, I couldn't actually cross into the 28 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: police border, and it was time for me to make 29 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: that apology on behalf of my dad. 30 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, because I find I wouldn't go to Ouse, which 31 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 3: I just can't. I went to dak Out and that 32 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: was as what place as I got. But it just 33 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 3: it's so sobering, and it's just to see that. 34 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: History normality of Burkenal just blew my mind. I could 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: not believe just how it was. 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 3: And also your parents, how you're even here is extraordinary. 37 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 3: When you read that book. Your mum and dad were 38 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 3: constantly cheating death every not every day, every minute of 39 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 3: every day. 40 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, look, one of the things my dad used 41 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: to say when you wake up in the morning was 42 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 2: if you wake up in the morning, it's a good day. 43 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: And let me tell you, they kept cheating death even 44 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 2: while they were in Slovakia for the four years before 45 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: they came out to Australia. It didn't end for them. 46 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: It's just unbelievable how they managed to come in here 47 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: and have a positive mentality. 48 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: Gary, I've spoken to a child of a Holocaust survivor 49 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: before who said that many children of Holocaust survivors are 50 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: hypochondrias because their parents know that terrible th things can happen. 51 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: No one says, give it a rub, you'll get better. 52 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: You know terrible things can happen. What are the long 53 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: term effects of this intergenerational trauma. How was your upbringing 54 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: in light of your parents both being survivors. 55 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: Look, I think I was one of the lucky ones. 56 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: My parents had an attitude where they would always look forward. 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 2: I wasn't brought up as a bubble child. It was 58 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 2: very important for my parents for me to try everything. 59 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: If I fell off a horse, we'll get back on, 60 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 2: you know. When I broke my leg skiing, as soon 61 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: as I was out of plaster and it was the 62 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: next winter, they took me skiing. So for my parents 63 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: it was you need to try and experience appsolutely everything 64 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: and if you hurt yourself, or you hurt yourself and 65 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: you move. 66 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: On, what new understandings do you have of what they 67 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: went through? Because they didn't speak about it much when 68 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: you were growing up having been there, Now, what context 69 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: do you see for that? 70 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: So I have a better appreciation of why they didn't 71 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: talk to me about it, because I think the fact 72 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: that the one thing they protected me from was their 73 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: experience there, even though I had to watch the World 74 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: at War miniseries by myself when I was about twelve 75 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: or thirteen. 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: Oh really, so the World at War was a very 77 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: famous series at the time. Did they not watch that 78 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: with you? 79 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: No? They would literally sit in the kitchen, which was 80 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 2: next door to the TV room, and because I'm an 81 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: only child, that I'd be sitting there watching it by myself, 82 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 2: and then when I would come out and try and 83 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 2: talk to them about it, they would offer me something 84 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: to eat food was very important to my mum and 85 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: send me to bed. So I kind of gave up 86 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: asking them questions and they. 87 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: Didn't explain anything about that past. So when that World 88 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 3: of War series is on, they wouldn't say anything about it. 89 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: They wouldn't say those images that I saw on that series. 90 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: Oh, me too, looked the bulldozers shuffling the bodies. Only 91 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 2: I'm sixty three now, so we're talking fifty odd years ago. 92 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: When I watched it, and it still plays very heavily 93 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 2: on my mind. Whenever I watch a documentary that shows 94 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: life footage of a concentration camp, actually still sit there 95 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: looking to see if there's any footage of my mum 96 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: and dad. 97 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: Well, Garret, it's great to talk to the Tattoo Sun 98 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 3: Journey to Us, which is streaming now on stan Gary Sokolov, 99 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 3: thank you for joining us. 100 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: No, thank you so much for having me and you 101 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: guys have a wonderful day.