WEBVTT - Dead Bananas 🍌 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.560 It's me, the drop dead gorgeous at Simone. I know 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.280 not everyone in this world is as physically blessed as 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.400 I am, but it's okay because I'm making a space 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:23.040 for the extremely regular normal people that walk among us. 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.080 Except there's one catch. These normals are concealing something that 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:32.239 makes them interesting, exciting, worthy of our time. What is 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.000 that thing? Well, I don't know, but I'll slice it 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.879 open and chisel away until I have the truth. This 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.440 is concealed with me atsimone oh. Time for the guest 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:47.160 roll the time. Hi. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.040 My name is Joanna. I'm from New Zealand but moved 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.919 to Australia a few years ago and just became a citizen. 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.080 I work as a doctor and spent many years studying. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.840 I ran my first marathon last year and enjoy swimming, 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:01.600 reading and gardening. 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.640 Hello, Joeanna, how are you? 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.080 I am great? Thank you Joe, for sure, absolutely. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.600 I'll be beautiful. Well, hello Joe, my name's out. Love 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:14.920 to meet you. To meet you all right now, we've 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.360 never met before in my life that I know of, correct, 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:19.720 Maybe in a past life We'll never know, maybe maybe, 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:21.240 But you're here in front of me. You've got you 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.400 put the sparkles on today. You've got your Diamonte stars 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.120 and lightning bolts all over your beautiful blaze that resistant 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.520 every day. Are you an everyday sparkler or is this 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:30.840 a special occasion sparkler? 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:32.920 Oh, it has to be a special occasion sparkle. 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:35.400 Oh, I see, I would know I'm an everyday sparkler. 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:37.840 A special occasion is when I'm in all Matt and 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:42.200 people go what's going on? That's how I make a statement. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:43.960 If I want to do something for a red carpet, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.480 I just go completely dull Matt and people go, Wow, 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:48.640 that's really new. That's that's amazing for you. 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:49.280 I know. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.040 I'm very first the top. So you're from New Zealand originally? 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:55.720 What made you take the jump over across the ditch? 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.760 A job opportunity that I couldn't turn down? 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.880 Well, that is good. We love jobs now, I mean 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.840 I didn't have one, but I'm sure people that need 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.360 jobs love them too. I just dress up as a lady, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:09.919 but I think I do it well. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:10.440 You do? 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.760 And a doctor? Now? Am I allowed to go into 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:16.560 what doc type of doctor you are? Or is that 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:17.440 still a mystery? 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.520 It's probably a mystery, Okay, I won't. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.280 Poke on the doctor. Note, I won't poke on the 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.600 doctor date. And you ran a marathon? 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:29.800 I did. How That's what I ask myself. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:33.000 Do you have to train for it? 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.280 I did, and it was probably one of the hardest 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.639 things I've ever done. Yeah, but I did it. 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:40.880 What happens when you've done it? What happens then? 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.840 Do you go, Well, you get a T shirt, you 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.120 get some bananas at the end, and you go that 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.760 was worthwhile. I'm so glad I did that. Everything hurts. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:50.920 But look, I've got a banana. 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:53.880 I hope you've put that banana on the wall. Like 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.280 the current at the NGV, there's a banana duct taped 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:58.200 to a wall at the moment. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:02:59.440 Yeah, that's my banana. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.200 Oh, I see, I see our thoughts. So I thought. 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.239 So I'm gonna ask you three questions, and from the 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.400 answers to those three questions, I have to try and 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:10.919 work out what it is you're concealing from me today, 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.040 Miss doctor Joe. Okay, all right, So the first question 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.760 I have for you is what was your favorite board 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:18.480 game growing up? 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.119 Well, that would probably have to be Cludo Cludo. 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.520 Okay, Now that's the one where it's like mister Murder Mystery. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.720 It is Miss Scarlet and the Library with the Dagger. 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.359 Wow. I've actually never played Cludo because I feel like 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.200 there's too much reading involved. Do you know what I mean? 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:37.400 I like reading? 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.200 Yeah, well that's good. Do you have any tips for Cludo? 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.560 You just have to write down the answers as you go, okay, 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.280 and then you can systematically work it out. 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.520 Systematically. That's a big word today, Joe. All Right, I 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.120 can't spell that. I've just written s y. I'll remember 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:02.960 what that means. Okay, Cludo cludo, butana doctor doctor banana cludo. Okay, 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.480 so I've got so far. Question number two, if you 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.800 could pick one obscure instrument to be proficient at, what 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:09.280 would it be? 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.040 Well, I would definitely have to be the organ. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.600 Oh my goodness, the organ. Now. I see a little 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.320 glint in your eye when you say organ, and something 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:25.400 tells me you're not talking about the musical instrument. I 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.279 don't know. It's a viber picking up. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.960 I could be wronging all sorts of organs. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.960 Yeah, like electric ones. One's a blow, a lot of 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:41.919 a ones. You're with blood organ, all right, banana organ, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.239 dr Marathon Okay, new Zealand. 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:46.159 Okay. 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.240 The final question after you is if you could get 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.800 the answer to one question, what would it be? 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:55.960 What happens after death? 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:02.120 Wife? After death? Okay? Dead? All right? Dead banana doctor organ, 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.720 New Zealand, dead bananas, get rid of banana. That's a 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:12.160 red herring. Cludo mystery mystery, mystery, murder mystery because I'm 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.920 obviously picking up organ, which is like body things included, 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.920 which is like murder. But then life after death and 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.640 that I don't know what that means. All right now 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.960 I'm going dead things, things that go inside dead things 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.360 and dead people. I love that. Are you a moutician? 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:39.440 I am a forensic pathologist. I perform autopsies and work 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.880 closely with the coroner to determine the cause of death 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.520 in certain cases with closed you were. 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.640 It wasn't a banana. Did you know? When I was 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.560 a kid, I always wanted to be a forensic pathologist. Well, literally, 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.240 I did work experience, not with the actual dead bodies, 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.080 but I went and worked and was looking at cells 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.080 and stuff for every Oh my goodness, how niche ah 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:09.560 ah close but those cinger. No, Joe is not a mortician, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:14.720 she is a forensic pathologists. Close iwit's close. I don't 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:25.040 want to name more. Please Okay, So we hear with 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.320 Joe the forensic pathologist. Oh my goodness, did you wash 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:36.760 your hands today? Ah? Good question, no comment, all right. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.600 So for people that don't know what a forensic pathologist is, 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:41.400 please explain it to us here. 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.560 So, a forensic pathologist is a medical doctor who specializes 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.640 in forensic pathology. Now, pathology itself is the study of disease, 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.440 it causes, how you diagnose it, And a forensic pathologist 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.080 in particular has interest in injuries, how they're caused, how 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.040 they might cause death or contribute to death. 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.560 So to become a forensic pathologist, do you have to do? 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.360 What's the pipeline to forensic pathology? How do you get there? 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.640 How do you start working with living things dead things? 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.200 It's pretty diverse. For most of us. You do your 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.160 medical degree and then go in and work in the hospitals, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.360 and for some people they love that, for some of 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:24.560 us not so much. And you develop an interest in pathology, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.640 which is all about problem solving and diagnosing disease and 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.920 getting to the bottom of things, which is part of 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.520 the perks of the job. And then from there, for me, 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:38.480 it evolved from surgical training, loving pathology, combining the two 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.080 and doing forensic pathology, and once you get in you 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.200 realize it is one of the best jobs in the world. 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.560 Because you are doing a real life Cludo. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:48.720 It is. It is a real life Cluto. 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.600 Now, did you see a big mass intake in the 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:57.800 forensic pathology and biomedical science world thanks to shows like 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.360 CSI and NCI and Law and Order. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.160 It's definitely helped increase the visuals on our job and 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.040 people know what it is. People know what we do, 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.280 and I think it has increased the interest. Also, then 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.160 when people realize it's thirteen to sixteen years of medical 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.960 and specialist training, then the interest sort of drops off 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:18.360 from there. 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.640 Look, I'll said earlier, I wanted to be a forensic pathologist, 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.840 look at me now. Didn't quite make it. But you 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.120 know what, that's fine. At least we've got you in 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.680 the world. But I think that's an issue that happened 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.280 too with the shows like CSAs. People think the person 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.079 just does everything. They're like, oh, they're going to be 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.560 going spraying for the blood over there, and then they're 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.400 going to be in the lab do it cutting people. 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:41.679 Up, and they think that we do it in six 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.200 inch stilettos and miniskirts. 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.679 Do you actually do autopsies yes? Is that like your 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.880 main specialty that you're like, all right, bring them in. 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.079 Yeah. It's one of the tools that we've got to 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.800 investigate death. So we have many We have our medical knowledge, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.760 what we read from the medical records or from the circumstances. 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.679 We have a CT scan and soon to be an 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.600 MRI scan so we can get radiology imaging of the deceased. 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.920 And we have autopsies, which enables us to examine everything internally, 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.640 look for diseases, abnormalities, injuries, see what's going on on 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:18.199 the inside. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.960 Would your scans would they be preferable because they're non 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.679 intrusive for some people, or is most time you're like, 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:27.439 we just got to get in there and have a squiz. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.240 It really depends on the case a lot of the time, 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.920 and I think societally there's less comfort with autopsies and 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.920 internal examinations. Autopsies have a bit of a bad reputation, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.960 but what they really are is exploratory surgery. It enables 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.520 us to go in and find out what's wrong, gives 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.760 us information. But in many cases, the CT gives us 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.800 that information. If there's a motor vehicle accident, we can 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.240 see the injuries. We can see the fractures or the bleeding, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.760 and in about half of our cases that are reported 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:58.680 to the coroner, they don't need a full autopsy. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.400 Are you studying to be a surgeon or specializing in 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.360 sur gin practices? Yeah? 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.079 So when I was at medical school, I always wanted 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.400 to do surgery. That's what I wanted, And then got 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.040 out of medical school, got on the surgical training program, 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.800 did the first part exams, and the more I did it, 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.240 the less I liked it. And I was getting to 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.040 that stage where like many junior doctors, I was tired, jaded, 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.079 just completely burnt out. And I thought, I'll take a 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.520 year off do pathology because these pathologists walk into the room. 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.440 And there was one in his jeans and his leather 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.800 jacket and he seemed really smart and really cool, and 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.320 I thought about it, no more than he looks neat, 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.439 I'll go and hang out in that department for a year. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:43.559 That's all it takes. 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.199 Loved it so much I never went back to surgery. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.480 Right, I guess you'd at the end of the day. 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.440 So I get to do surgery still, but I don't 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.559 have to worry about things working again afterwards. 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:57.840 So I think I'm a bit of a different person 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.679 in that this stuff doesn't give me the eg or 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.199 does it make me feel uncomfortable. I think death is 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.280 a really difficult topic for a lot of people to grasp. 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.319 Have you ever suffered a bit of I don't know, 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.000 stigma against your job and your profession and what you do. 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.800 Yeah, I think people are in equal parts fascinated by 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.719 it and can't understand how you can do it as 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.839 a job. There is definitely stigma. A lot of it 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.040 comes from my fellow medical practitioners. They don't understand why 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.480 you wouldn't want to be in a hospital dealing with patients. 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.640 Whereas I say, I still get to deal with patients, 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.720 but I also get to deal with police and doctors 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.199 and lawyers and all sorts of people, which is really 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.680 fun and diverse and an interesting part of the job. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.760 And the stigma and he comes when people don't understand 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.320 what it is, when we realize it's actually medicine. It's 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.000 finding answers for families. I mean, where the deceased last doctor? 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:53.920 That's true. 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:56.640 We get to explain what happened. It's a really privileged 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.839 position to be the first person in some cases to know, 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.559 so what happened to this person and what they went 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.040 through and to be able to provide answers and explain that. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.920 Yeah, totally not to lead into that stigma, but has 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.720 anything spooky happened? Any ghosts? 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.120 We just employ them as part of the stuff. 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:21.760 Good. Yeah, good, you're like, well, why are you here? 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.760 Can you just hand me that over there please? 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.160 Most of the creepy things would be creepy crawleyes. 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:31.280 Oh really, well, that's the thing. So you would get patients. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.280 Do you call them patients or do you call them 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.600 We call them the deceased. You would get the deceased 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:45.440 in lots of different circumstances and what's the word condition conditions? Yes, 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.280 you get them in all different types of conditions. So 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.000 what could this range? With someone who just looks like 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.000 they've fallen asleep or someone that is covered in bugs. 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.559 Absolutely, we get everything, particularly in summertime when it's a 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.719 lot hotter. Oh yeah, is decomposed a lot faster in 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.040 the heat. But then there's the winter time phenomenon where 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.120 people die in bed with their electric blankets on. Ah, 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.839 and the heat's not so great. They don't look like 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.040 they've just fallen asleep. So yeah, we get a real 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.840 range and you learn to expect and see what you find. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.000 Is there a favorite time of year to work? Is 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:24.800 there one peer where you're like everyone that comes in 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.280 is genuinely pleasant to work with. 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.199 Public holidays and school holidays because everyone goes out of Victoria. 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:34.439 That's true, Like no one here. 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:36.960 It all quietens down. 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.160 Are you so you're working for Like, would you work 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:42.599 with the police? Does that mean you have to go 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:43.160 to court? 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:43.920 It does? 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:44.640 It does. 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.200 So there's always somebody on call twenty four to seven. 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.760 So if there's a homicide or a suspicious death, we 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:51.880 can go out to the scene for that, or we'll 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.720 do the autopsy for that. And so we work closely 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.839 with the police from that point of view. And yes, 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.360 we go to court probably ten times or so for 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.040 giving evidence for those cases. Is that annoying, No, it's 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.319 part of the job that just every day. 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.400 If you're lying, we're going to ask our other specialist person. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.040 Oh, we certainly get that from defense lawyers. They call 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:18.320 you miss to try and downplay it, play the games, 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.400 but we know the games and you just don't let 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:21.840 it get to you. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.520 So that also means in my head, you're just working 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.760 at wherever you work. But do you have to go 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.160 out to actual crime scenes as well? Sometimes we do. 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.720 We don't get to go to anywhere near as many 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:39.680 as we'd like. But it's come on, well, if it's 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.040 in a scenic location, it's true. Ice cream on the 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:42.560 way back. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.400 I know that is true. Once you've done your job, 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:45.280 that is true. 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:46.520 Not an ice s cream on the way there that 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:47.320 would be performed. 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.880 Do you ever still get surprised? Are there some things 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.160 or if you feel like you've pretty much seen it 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:53.600 all now? 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:58.560 Yeah, there's not a lot now that human imagination can 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.520 think of to do that makes me think, really, because 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.880 I've said that so many times that I just think, okay, 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.920 well we'll roll with that. I won't think about that 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.040 too hard, and we'll just go with what we've got. 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.720 Yeah, in your first years where they're like, oh okay, yep. 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.960 Yes, definitely, humans are very creative, and the weird and 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.840 wonderful things that we can do to ourselves we can 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.280 do to other people. Often things that start with a 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:31.280 group of blokes with beer and someone saying, hey, guys, 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:35.320 watch this, it'll be awesome. Often ends not so well. 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:36.960 The lad's the lad's the lads. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.200 Luckily I'm not one of them exactly. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.080 I'm one of the gals. Are there any high profile 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.280 cases you've worked on that you probably can't talk about, 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.360 but maybe you could like allude to. Are the ones 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:49.200 that I'm winking, by the. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.680 Way, the ones that always get get mentioned. That I 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.680 was fortunate, unfortunate enough to be on call for was 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:01.760 the tragedies of Euridicity Dixon and i am Asawe. I 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.840 was on call for both of those cases. When those 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:10.920 poor young ladies came to us, they shocked me. I 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.840 didn't mean to be flippant with my answer before, but 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.480 there are still cases that do shock you. And that 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:23.280 was them, the randomness, the degree of injury, and there 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.440 are still cases which do impact you. We may be 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.520 able to approach a number of cases in a scientific way, 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.440 but there are still some where you think, no, I'm 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.160 still human, I'm still a member of this community, and 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:37.960 I don't think that's okay. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:40.920 Yeah. So, which brings me to my next question is 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:46.080 you obviously deal with a lot of heavy and impactful situations. 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:47.640 How do you deal with that. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:52.320 Our workplace is very proactive with that, with offering support, 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.400 whether it's something formal and regular that you want, whether 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.840 it's something on a as you need it basis, but 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:03.280 also that informal support we have from having a great 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:07.400 bunch of pathologists. There's sixteen of us. We're a wonderful 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.480 bunch of people and we're a very tight team, and 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.000 that support that everyone gives each other is one of 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.640 the most invaluable things. And getting through these cases where 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.280 you can go into a colleagues's office and just say 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.560 had a bit of a rough case and they'll understand 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.639 and you can talk it through. And that might just 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:26.960 be going out for a cup of coffee, might be 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.720 going out for something a bit stronger. But having that 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.840 support and that friendship in the group is one of 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:36.160 the key things. But certainly the employer is really proactive. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.320 They recognize that everyone is at risk. 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.640 Is there ever a circumstance where you can't work out 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:46.959 the cause of death and you can't work out what's happened? 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.320 Yeah, probably about under five percent of cases we'd have 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.960 it where the cause of death is not able to 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.440 be ascertained or determined. Despite everything that we can do, 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.480 and there's a number of reasons for that. Times it's 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.080 because the body is in a state of decomposition and 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:08.680 we've just lost data because it's decomposed. Sometimes it's young 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.960 people that die, and it's often commonly in young people 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.480 because the cause is not something structural in the heart 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.040 or the lungs, or the brain or any of the 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.800 other organs. It's something genetic that causes the heart not 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.440 to function properly or the brain not to function properly 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.359 in cause seizures. And so we work really closely with 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.000 the Children's hospital with Royal Melbourne Hospital and the geneticists 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.120 and the cardiologists there to get the person and their 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.880 family looked at and tested because these things can run 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.760 in families, so it's really important to get them followed 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.760 up to prevent deaths in the future. So unascertained as 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:45.920 a cause of death doesn't necessarily mean I don't know. 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.800 It means I haven't found anything anatomically wrong, or there's 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.200 nothing in the toxicology or the biochemistry or on the 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.840 CT scan, but I suspect there's something else going on 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.760 and it may be genetic, and we refer the families 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.600 off in that case when is. 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:03.840 The cutoff point for you to stop trying to work 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.640 it out? They all right, put it down, Love, Come on, Joe, 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:07.960 We've got to move on. 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:10.600 I think it depends on the case. The younger the 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.239 person is, the more you're going to do for them, 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.359 because you really know that it's important to get to 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:16.960 the bottom of it. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.280 I was listing something the other day and they'd found 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.200 remains like six to twelve months later and they could 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.560 still work out the cause of death from it. How 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.840 does that? That is the craziest puzzle in the world. 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.000 How do you How do you look at a stack 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.159 of bones and go, oh, yeah, this happened. 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.159 Hell depends. There can actually still be quite a lot 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.640 of information you can get. There might even after six 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:39.480 to twelve months, there might be little bits of soft 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.520 tissue left that can give you clues. Or if it's 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.879 an injury that's damaged the bone. We work closely with 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:50.600 anthropologists who are experts in looking at bones, looking at abnormalodies, 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.359 and they can help us to tell if that bone 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.159 e injury is something that happened after death, or you know, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.800 from animal scavenging or something. I guess if it's something 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.399 happened before so you can actually still get a lot 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.399 of information. And those are the cases we actually do 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.800 spend a lot of time on, because paradoxically, the less 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.280 of a person you have, the longer it takes to 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:15.280 look at everything and try and figure it out. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.440 Does it feel like making the world a better place? 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:18.920 How do you feel about that? 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.480 Well, apart from skipping out of the office each day 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:26.320 with you know, bluebirds and rainbows and haply singing a 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:30.720 happy tune. No, it's a wonderful job. It's really rewarding. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.200 Every day is different. Yeah, I mean I get to 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:34.240 come and chat with you. 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.880 Oh pretty good, isn't it. I get to go to court, 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:38.359 I get to. 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.360 Go to the crime scenes. It's a really rewarding job. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.000 Yeah, you know. I like what I do. But you 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.120 literally help people, ash, I didn't think i'd walk out 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:54.840 feeling bad about myself today. To close out, I want 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:56.760 to see if you can give you a hypothetical situation, 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.480 and if you give me a few clues as to 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.480 something you might be finding during an autopsy, and I 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.320 want to see if I can determine the cause of death. 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.119 I'll work out I'm going to be Pluto person. I 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.919