1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: It's me, the drop dead gorgeous at Simone. I know 2 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: not everyone in this world is as physically blessed as 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: I am, but it's okay because I'm making a space 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: for the extremely regular normal people that walk among us. 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: Except there's one catch. These normals are concealing something that 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: makes them interesting, exciting, worthy of our time. What is 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: that thing? Well, I don't know, but I'll slice it 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: open and chisel away until I have the truth. This 9 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: is concealed with me atsimone oh. Time for the guest 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: roll the time. Hi. 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 2: My name is Joanna. I'm from New Zealand but moved 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 2: to Australia a few years ago and just became a citizen. 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: I work as a doctor and spent many years studying. 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: I ran my first marathon last year and enjoy swimming, 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: reading and gardening. 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: Hello, Joeanna, how are you? 17 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: I am great? Thank you Joe, for sure, absolutely. 18 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: I'll be beautiful. Well, hello Joe, my name's out. Love 19 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: to meet you. To meet you all right now, we've 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: never met before in my life that I know of, correct, 21 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: Maybe in a past life We'll never know, maybe maybe, 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: But you're here in front of me. You've got you 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: put the sparkles on today. You've got your Diamonte stars 24 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: and lightning bolts all over your beautiful blaze that resistant 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: every day. Are you an everyday sparkler or is this 26 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: a special occasion sparkler? 27 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: Oh, it has to be a special occasion sparkle. 28 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: Oh, I see, I would know I'm an everyday sparkler. 29 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: A special occasion is when I'm in all Matt and 30 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: people go what's going on? That's how I make a statement. 31 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: If I want to do something for a red carpet, 32 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: I just go completely dull Matt and people go, Wow, 33 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: that's really new. That's that's amazing for you. 34 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: I know. 35 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm very first the top. So you're from New Zealand originally? 36 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: What made you take the jump over across the ditch? 37 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: A job opportunity that I couldn't turn down? 38 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: Well, that is good. We love jobs now, I mean 39 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: I didn't have one, but I'm sure people that need 40 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: jobs love them too. I just dress up as a lady, 41 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: but I think I do it well. 42 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: You do? 43 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: And a doctor? Now? Am I allowed to go into 44 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: what doc type of doctor you are? Or is that 45 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: still a mystery? 46 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: It's probably a mystery, Okay, I won't. 47 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: Poke on the doctor. Note, I won't poke on the 48 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: doctor date. And you ran a marathon? 49 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: I did. How That's what I ask myself. 50 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: Do you have to train for it? 51 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: I did, and it was probably one of the hardest 52 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 2: things I've ever done. Yeah, but I did it. 53 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: What happens when you've done it? What happens then? 54 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: Do you go, Well, you get a T shirt, you 55 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: get some bananas at the end, and you go that 56 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: was worthwhile. I'm so glad I did that. Everything hurts. 57 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: But look, I've got a banana. 58 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: I hope you've put that banana on the wall. Like 59 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: the current at the NGV, there's a banana duct taped 60 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: to a wall at the moment. 61 00:02:58,560 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my banana. 62 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: Oh, I see, I see our thoughts. So I thought. 63 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna ask you three questions, and from the 64 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: answers to those three questions, I have to try and 65 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: work out what it is you're concealing from me today, 66 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: Miss doctor Joe. Okay, all right, So the first question 67 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: I have for you is what was your favorite board 68 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: game growing up? 69 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 2: Well, that would probably have to be Cludo Cludo. 70 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: Okay, Now that's the one where it's like mister Murder Mystery. 71 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: It is Miss Scarlet and the Library with the Dagger. 72 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: Wow. I've actually never played Cludo because I feel like 73 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: there's too much reading involved. Do you know what I mean? 74 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: I like reading? 75 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's good. Do you have any tips for Cludo? 76 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: You just have to write down the answers as you go, okay, 77 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: and then you can systematically work it out. 78 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: Systematically. That's a big word today, Joe. All Right, I 79 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: can't spell that. I've just written s y. I'll remember 80 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: what that means. Okay, Cludo cludo, butana doctor doctor banana cludo. Okay, 81 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: so I've got so far. Question number two, if you 82 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: could pick one obscure instrument to be proficient at, what 83 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: would it be? 84 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: Well, I would definitely have to be the organ. 85 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, the organ. Now. I see a little 86 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: glint in your eye when you say organ, and something 87 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: tells me you're not talking about the musical instrument. I 88 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: don't know. It's a viber picking up. 89 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: I could be wronging all sorts of organs. 90 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, like electric ones. One's a blow, a lot of 91 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: a ones. You're with blood organ, all right, banana organ, 92 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 1: dr Marathon Okay, new Zealand. 93 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: Okay. 94 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: The final question after you is if you could get 95 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: the answer to one question, what would it be? 96 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: What happens after death? 97 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: Wife? After death? Okay? Dead? All right? Dead banana doctor organ, 98 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: New Zealand, dead bananas, get rid of banana. That's a 99 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: red herring. Cludo mystery mystery, mystery, murder mystery because I'm 100 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: obviously picking up organ, which is like body things included, 101 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: which is like murder. But then life after death and 102 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: that I don't know what that means. All right now 103 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: I'm going dead things, things that go inside dead things 104 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: and dead people. I love that. Are you a moutician? 105 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: I am a forensic pathologist. I perform autopsies and work 106 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: closely with the coroner to determine the cause of death 107 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: in certain cases with closed you were. 108 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't a banana. Did you know? When I was 109 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: a kid, I always wanted to be a forensic pathologist. Well, literally, 110 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: I did work experience, not with the actual dead bodies, 111 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: but I went and worked and was looking at cells 112 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: and stuff for every Oh my goodness, how niche ah 113 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: ah close but those cinger. No, Joe is not a mortician, 114 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: she is a forensic pathologists. Close iwit's close. I don't 115 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: want to name more. Please Okay, So we hear with 116 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: Joe the forensic pathologist. Oh my goodness, did you wash 117 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: your hands today? Ah? Good question, no comment, all right. 118 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: So for people that don't know what a forensic pathologist is, 119 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: please explain it to us here. 120 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: So, a forensic pathologist is a medical doctor who specializes 121 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: in forensic pathology. Now, pathology itself is the study of disease, 122 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: it causes, how you diagnose it, And a forensic pathologist 123 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: in particular has interest in injuries, how they're caused, how 124 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 2: they might cause death or contribute to death. 125 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: So to become a forensic pathologist, do you have to do? 126 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: What's the pipeline to forensic pathology? How do you get there? 127 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: How do you start working with living things dead things? 128 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: It's pretty diverse. For most of us. You do your 129 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: medical degree and then go in and work in the hospitals, 130 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: and for some people they love that, for some of 131 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: us not so much. And you develop an interest in pathology, 132 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 2: which is all about problem solving and diagnosing disease and 133 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: getting to the bottom of things, which is part of 134 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: the perks of the job. And then from there, for me, 135 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: it evolved from surgical training, loving pathology, combining the two 136 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: and doing forensic pathology, and once you get in you 137 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: realize it is one of the best jobs in the world. 138 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: Because you are doing a real life Cludo. 139 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: It is. It is a real life Cluto. 140 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: Now, did you see a big mass intake in the 141 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: forensic pathology and biomedical science world thanks to shows like 142 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: CSI and NCI and Law and Order. 143 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: It's definitely helped increase the visuals on our job and 144 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: people know what it is. People know what we do, 145 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: and I think it has increased the interest. Also, then 146 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: when people realize it's thirteen to sixteen years of medical 147 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: and specialist training, then the interest sort of drops off 148 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: from there. 149 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: Look, I'll said earlier, I wanted to be a forensic pathologist, 150 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: look at me now. Didn't quite make it. But you 151 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: know what, that's fine. At least we've got you in 152 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: the world. But I think that's an issue that happened 153 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: too with the shows like CSAs. People think the person 154 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: just does everything. They're like, oh, they're going to be 155 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: going spraying for the blood over there, and then they're 156 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: going to be in the lab do it cutting people. 157 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: Up, and they think that we do it in six 158 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 2: inch stilettos and miniskirts. 159 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: Do you actually do autopsies yes? Is that like your 160 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: main specialty that you're like, all right, bring them in. 161 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 2: Yeah. It's one of the tools that we've got to 162 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: investigate death. So we have many We have our medical knowledge, 163 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: what we read from the medical records or from the circumstances. 164 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: We have a CT scan and soon to be an 165 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: MRI scan so we can get radiology imaging of the deceased. 166 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: And we have autopsies, which enables us to examine everything internally, 167 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: look for diseases, abnormalities, injuries, see what's going on on 168 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 2: the inside. 169 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: Would your scans would they be preferable because they're non 170 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: intrusive for some people, or is most time you're like, 171 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: we just got to get in there and have a squiz. 172 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: It really depends on the case a lot of the time, 173 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: and I think societally there's less comfort with autopsies and 174 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: internal examinations. Autopsies have a bit of a bad reputation, 175 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: but what they really are is exploratory surgery. It enables 176 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: us to go in and find out what's wrong, gives 177 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: us information. But in many cases, the CT gives us 178 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: that information. If there's a motor vehicle accident, we can 179 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: see the injuries. We can see the fractures or the bleeding, 180 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: and in about half of our cases that are reported 181 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 2: to the coroner, they don't need a full autopsy. 182 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: Are you studying to be a surgeon or specializing in 183 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: sur gin practices? Yeah? 184 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 2: So when I was at medical school, I always wanted 185 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: to do surgery. That's what I wanted, And then got 186 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: out of medical school, got on the surgical training program, 187 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: did the first part exams, and the more I did it, 188 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: the less I liked it. And I was getting to 189 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: that stage where like many junior doctors, I was tired, jaded, 190 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 2: just completely burnt out. And I thought, I'll take a 191 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: year off do pathology because these pathologists walk into the room. 192 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: And there was one in his jeans and his leather 193 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: jacket and he seemed really smart and really cool, and 194 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: I thought about it, no more than he looks neat, 195 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 2: I'll go and hang out in that department for a year. 196 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: That's all it takes. 197 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 2: Loved it so much I never went back to surgery. 198 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: Right, I guess you'd at the end of the day. 199 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 2: So I get to do surgery still, but I don't 200 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 2: have to worry about things working again afterwards. 201 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: So I think I'm a bit of a different person 202 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: in that this stuff doesn't give me the eg or 203 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: does it make me feel uncomfortable. I think death is 204 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: a really difficult topic for a lot of people to grasp. 205 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: Have you ever suffered a bit of I don't know, 206 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: stigma against your job and your profession and what you do. 207 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people are in equal parts fascinated by 208 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 2: it and can't understand how you can do it as 209 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 2: a job. There is definitely stigma. A lot of it 210 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: comes from my fellow medical practitioners. They don't understand why 211 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: you wouldn't want to be in a hospital dealing with patients. 212 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: Whereas I say, I still get to deal with patients, 213 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: but I also get to deal with police and doctors 214 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 2: and lawyers and all sorts of people, which is really 215 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 2: fun and diverse and an interesting part of the job. 216 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: And the stigma and he comes when people don't understand 217 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: what it is, when we realize it's actually medicine. It's 218 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: finding answers for families. I mean, where the deceased last doctor? 219 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: That's true. 220 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: We get to explain what happened. It's a really privileged 221 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 2: position to be the first person in some cases to know, 222 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 2: so what happened to this person and what they went 223 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: through and to be able to provide answers and explain that. 224 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally not to lead into that stigma, but has 225 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: anything spooky happened? Any ghosts? 226 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: We just employ them as part of the stuff. 227 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: Good. Yeah, good, you're like, well, why are you here? 228 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: Can you just hand me that over there please? 229 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: Most of the creepy things would be creepy crawleyes. 230 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: Oh really, well, that's the thing. So you would get patients. 231 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: Do you call them patients or do you call them 232 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: We call them the deceased. You would get the deceased 233 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: in lots of different circumstances and what's the word condition conditions? Yes, 234 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: you get them in all different types of conditions. So 235 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: what could this range? With someone who just looks like 236 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: they've fallen asleep or someone that is covered in bugs. 237 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we get everything, particularly in summertime when it's a 238 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 2: lot hotter. Oh yeah, is decomposed a lot faster in 239 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: the heat. But then there's the winter time phenomenon where 240 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: people die in bed with their electric blankets on. Ah, 241 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 2: and the heat's not so great. They don't look like 242 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: they've just fallen asleep. So yeah, we get a real 243 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: range and you learn to expect and see what you find. 244 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: Is there a favorite time of year to work? Is 245 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: there one peer where you're like everyone that comes in 246 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: is genuinely pleasant to work with. 247 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 2: Public holidays and school holidays because everyone goes out of Victoria. 248 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: That's true, Like no one here. 249 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 2: It all quietens down. 250 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: Are you so you're working for Like, would you work 251 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:42,599 Speaker 1: with the police? Does that mean you have to go 252 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: to court? 253 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: It does? 254 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: It does. 255 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 2: So there's always somebody on call twenty four to seven. 256 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: So if there's a homicide or a suspicious death, we 257 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 2: can go out to the scene for that, or we'll 258 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 2: do the autopsy for that. And so we work closely 259 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 2: with the police from that point of view. And yes, 260 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 2: we go to court probably ten times or so for 261 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: giving evidence for those cases. Is that annoying, No, it's 262 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 2: part of the job that just every day. 263 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: If you're lying, we're going to ask our other specialist person. 264 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: Oh, we certainly get that from defense lawyers. They call 265 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: you miss to try and downplay it, play the games, 266 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: but we know the games and you just don't let 267 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: it get to you. 268 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: So that also means in my head, you're just working 269 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: at wherever you work. But do you have to go 270 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: out to actual crime scenes as well? Sometimes we do. 271 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 2: We don't get to go to anywhere near as many 272 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: as we'd like. But it's come on, well, if it's 273 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 2: in a scenic location, it's true. Ice cream on the 274 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: way back. 275 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: I know that is true. Once you've done your job, 276 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: that is true. 277 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: Not an ice s cream on the way there that 278 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: would be performed. 279 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: Do you ever still get surprised? Are there some things 280 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: or if you feel like you've pretty much seen it 281 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: all now? 282 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not a lot now that human imagination can 283 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: think of to do that makes me think, really, because 284 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 2: I've said that so many times that I just think, okay, 285 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: well we'll roll with that. I won't think about that 286 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 2: too hard, and we'll just go with what we've got. 287 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, in your first years where they're like, oh okay, yep. 288 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, humans are very creative, and the weird and 289 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: wonderful things that we can do to ourselves we can 290 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: do to other people. Often things that start with a 291 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 2: group of blokes with beer and someone saying, hey, guys, 292 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: watch this, it'll be awesome. Often ends not so well. 293 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: The lad's the lad's the lads. 294 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: Luckily I'm not one of them exactly. 295 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: I'm one of the gals. Are there any high profile 296 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: cases you've worked on that you probably can't talk about, 297 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: but maybe you could like allude to. Are the ones 298 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: that I'm winking, by the. 299 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: Way, the ones that always get get mentioned. That I 300 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 2: was fortunate, unfortunate enough to be on call for was 301 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: the tragedies of Euridicity Dixon and i am Asawe. I 302 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 2: was on call for both of those cases. When those 303 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: poor young ladies came to us, they shocked me. I 304 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: didn't mean to be flippant with my answer before, but 305 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: there are still cases that do shock you. And that 306 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 2: was them, the randomness, the degree of injury, and there 307 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: are still cases which do impact you. We may be 308 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: able to approach a number of cases in a scientific way, 309 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: but there are still some where you think, no, I'm 310 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 2: still human, I'm still a member of this community, and 311 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: I don't think that's okay. 312 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, which brings me to my next question is 313 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: you obviously deal with a lot of heavy and impactful situations. 314 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: How do you deal with that. 315 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 2: Our workplace is very proactive with that, with offering support, 316 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: whether it's something formal and regular that you want, whether 317 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: it's something on a as you need it basis, but 318 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: also that informal support we have from having a great 319 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 2: bunch of pathologists. There's sixteen of us. We're a wonderful 320 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 2: bunch of people and we're a very tight team, and 321 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: that support that everyone gives each other is one of 322 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 2: the most invaluable things. And getting through these cases where 323 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 2: you can go into a colleagues's office and just say 324 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: had a bit of a rough case and they'll understand 325 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 2: and you can talk it through. And that might just 326 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: be going out for a cup of coffee, might be 327 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: going out for something a bit stronger. But having that 328 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 2: support and that friendship in the group is one of 329 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: the key things. But certainly the employer is really proactive. 330 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: They recognize that everyone is at risk. 331 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: Is there ever a circumstance where you can't work out 332 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,959 Speaker 1: the cause of death and you can't work out what's happened? 333 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, probably about under five percent of cases we'd have 334 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 2: it where the cause of death is not able to 335 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: be ascertained or determined. Despite everything that we can do, 336 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: and there's a number of reasons for that. Times it's 337 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 2: because the body is in a state of decomposition and 338 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 2: we've just lost data because it's decomposed. Sometimes it's young 339 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: people that die, and it's often commonly in young people 340 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: because the cause is not something structural in the heart 341 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: or the lungs, or the brain or any of the 342 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: other organs. It's something genetic that causes the heart not 343 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 2: to function properly or the brain not to function properly 344 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: in cause seizures. And so we work really closely with 345 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: the Children's hospital with Royal Melbourne Hospital and the geneticists 346 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 2: and the cardiologists there to get the person and their 347 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 2: family looked at and tested because these things can run 348 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 2: in families, so it's really important to get them followed 349 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: up to prevent deaths in the future. So unascertained as 350 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 2: a cause of death doesn't necessarily mean I don't know. 351 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 2: It means I haven't found anything anatomically wrong, or there's 352 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: nothing in the toxicology or the biochemistry or on the 353 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 2: CT scan, but I suspect there's something else going on 354 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: and it may be genetic, and we refer the families 355 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: off in that case when is. 356 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: The cutoff point for you to stop trying to work 357 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: it out? They all right, put it down, Love, Come on, Joe, 358 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: We've got to move on. 359 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: I think it depends on the case. The younger the 360 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,239 Speaker 2: person is, the more you're going to do for them, 361 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 2: because you really know that it's important to get to 362 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 2: the bottom of it. 363 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: I was listing something the other day and they'd found 364 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: remains like six to twelve months later and they could 365 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: still work out the cause of death from it. How 366 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: does that? That is the craziest puzzle in the world. 367 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: How do you How do you look at a stack 368 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: of bones and go, oh, yeah, this happened. 369 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 2: Hell depends. There can actually still be quite a lot 370 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 2: of information you can get. There might even after six 371 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: to twelve months, there might be little bits of soft 372 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: tissue left that can give you clues. Or if it's 373 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 2: an injury that's damaged the bone. We work closely with 374 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: anthropologists who are experts in looking at bones, looking at abnormalodies, 375 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 2: and they can help us to tell if that bone 376 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 2: e injury is something that happened after death, or you know, 377 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: from animal scavenging or something. I guess if it's something 378 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 2: happened before so you can actually still get a lot 379 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 2: of information. And those are the cases we actually do 380 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 2: spend a lot of time on, because paradoxically, the less 381 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: of a person you have, the longer it takes to 382 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: look at everything and try and figure it out. 383 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: Does it feel like making the world a better place? 384 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: How do you feel about that? 385 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: Well, apart from skipping out of the office each day 386 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: with you know, bluebirds and rainbows and haply singing a 387 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: happy tune. No, it's a wonderful job. It's really rewarding. 388 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 2: Every day is different. Yeah, I mean I get to 389 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 2: come and chat with you. 390 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: Oh pretty good, isn't it. I get to go to court, 391 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: I get to. 392 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 2: Go to the crime scenes. It's a really rewarding job. 393 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. I like what I do. But you 394 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: literally help people, ash, I didn't think i'd walk out 395 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: feeling bad about myself today. To close out, I want 396 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: to see if you can give you a hypothetical situation, 397 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: and if you give me a few clues as to 398 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: something you might be finding during an autopsy, and I 399 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: want to see if I can determine the cause of death. 400 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: I'll work out I'm going to be Pluto person. I 401 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: get my pen ready. Is there a banana involved? There is? Okay, 402 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: all right, okay, okay with you all right. 403 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: So we have a because I'm a new Zealander, he'll 404 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 2: have to be sixty six, okay, sixty six year old man? 405 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: Yes, I like that. 406 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 2: Was eating a banana and he developed heaviness in his chests, 407 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: collapsed and couldn't be resuscitated. 408 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: Okay, right, couldn't be blown. 409 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 2: He's got high blood pressure okay, diabetes, and he smokes 410 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: and he hasn't been to the gym. 411 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: I can't believe it ever describing my father like this. 412 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: This is so embarrassing. No, I don't have fun anyway, Okay, okay. 413 00:21:54,119 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: So he's unhealthy. He's pretty unhealthy. Bad cholesterol, yes, probably undoubtedly, Yeah, 414 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: bad cholesterol, high blood pressure, eating banana. I think the 415 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: banana's red herring again. Actually, he died because he finally 416 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: had something healthy to eat. His body went into shock. 417 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: He's been eating chicken nuggets his whole life, and he 418 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: had the banana and his body was like what this? 419 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: And then he felt heavy and dropped to the ground. 420 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: Did I sorted? Solved? Solved? 421 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: Did he have a heart attack? Yes, because of the banana. 422 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: I can't wait to do my internship for the second time. 423 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: I'll stick it the whole way through this time. She's 424 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: got to fix the lighting. I hate fluorescent lightings. Ah, 425 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: and I think the moral to this story is don't 426 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: trust bananas, and I'll take that to the bank. You've 427 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: been listening to an iHeart Australia production concealed with Art Simone. 428 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: Listen to more of what you love on iHeart and 429 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: these too drop dead gorgeous ladies. Check us out on 430 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: the Star Shows.