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Speaker 1: The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia

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Speaker 1: and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay

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Speaker 1: our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Wiggle Talk. It is a podcast for parents.

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Speaker 2: I am lucky if purple wiggled.

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Speaker 3: Hello over and I'm Simon. I'm the Red Wiggle and

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Speaker 3: today we're talking with children's author Andy Griffiths about books, reading,

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Speaker 3: imagination and how to help children fall in love with stories.

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Speaker 2: Yes we are, but before we get into that, Simo,

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Speaker 2: have you watched Yellowstone?

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Speaker 3: No? I haven't. You know. It's one of those series

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Speaker 3: that it feels too daunting to get into now because

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Speaker 3: it's happened. There's lots of seasons. I feel like I've

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Speaker 3: missed the boat.

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Speaker 2: But well I've just started rowing. You're on the boat

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Speaker 2: and done and I make that so lovely. We've forgotten

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Speaker 2: how when what's the series? Since she was pregnant with

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Speaker 2: the girls and we watched The Crown that was very fun.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, we've just started watching I think where one

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Speaker 2: series down a very full on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, that's your our good friend. Landy Wilson's in

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Speaker 3: Laney Wilson's in that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. It's just it's very country, very You're

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Speaker 2: very intense and you do sometimes find it hard to

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Speaker 2: fall asleep afterwards.

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Speaker 3: But do you put a fake beard on? You bring

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Speaker 3: back the country vibes?

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Speaker 2: I would love to the Other day at Saturday Sport,

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Speaker 2: we're mentioning it to one of the wonderful friends we've

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Speaker 2: made through Saturday Sport and they said, oh, that was

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Speaker 2: so jealous that we've just got there and we've just started.

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Speaker 2: Because they loved it. I wish they were back at

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Speaker 2: the start. But then we said, me and the other

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Speaker 2: dad looked at each other and said, would you like

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Speaker 2: to wear a cowboy at next week to cricket? Okay,

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Speaker 2: and we kind of gave each other the country nod,

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Speaker 2: and then the week came.

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Speaker 3: Yes and we did it.

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Speaker 4: You did it.

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Speaker 3: You both did it.

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 3: Oh you followed through too. I knew you'd follow through.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you've got.

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Speaker 2: I was nervous. He got there and he was over

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Speaker 2: the other side of the field and we just we

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Speaker 2: just saw each other straight away.

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Speaker 3: Really did he is a wonderful moment. Did you hop

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Speaker 3: out of the car with your hat on? Did he

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Speaker 3: have his head on or did you see each other

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Speaker 3: and then go we're safe. We can both put our

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Speaker 3: hats on.

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Speaker 2: No, I had to. I couldn't wear my head in

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Speaker 2: the car. I had to get out first. I didn't

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Speaker 2: look though, I just I knew that was it. I

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Speaker 2: think there was a follow on text like on the Thursdays.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, but we did.

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Speaker 2: I got out of the car.

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Speaker 4: Good for my.

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Speaker 2: Years, for some protection.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this is the thing.

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Speaker 2: I wore jeans and a long sleeve top. You're in Brisbane, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I was like, it's a lot cooler climate in

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Speaker 2: wherever they sat.

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Speaker 3: So you've joined. I was fitzing.

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Speaker 2: This was so uncomfortable. But I don't know how cowboys

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Speaker 2: do it in Australia. They never see them in shorts.

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Speaker 3: Well no, you no, you can't. Actually they just must

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Speaker 3: be used to it very hot. After I watch The

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Speaker 3: Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, I was put the old

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Speaker 3: diamonds on and catch up with the dad's cricket, get

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Speaker 3: out the old Kelly handbag whatever they called. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's all right, So thank you, Lockie. That was the banter.

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Speaker 3: Do you how do you do? Today? We're joined by

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Speaker 3: Andy Griffiths one of Australia's most loved and best selling

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Speaker 3: children's authors, forty three books published and more than twenty

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Speaker 3: million copies sold worldwide. He's best known for the Treehouse

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Speaker 3: series and has also written the Just Books, The Bum

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Speaker 3: trilogy and You and Me.

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Speaker 2: He has won more than one hundred Children's Choice Awards,

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Speaker 2: so he's not just critically successful. Children genuinely adore his

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Speaker 2: work and he has just been named the twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: six twenty twenty seven Australian Children's Laureate and his theme

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Speaker 2: is reading is an Adventure. He is also just released

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Speaker 2: this book called Let's Go, a new activity book that

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Speaker 2: encourages children to create their own stories through writing, drawing

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Speaker 2: and imaginative play.

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Speaker 3: So this conversation is really about how we help children

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Speaker 3: connect with books in a way that feels fun, playful

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Speaker 3: and low pressure, How humor and silliness can open the

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Speaker 3: door to reading, and how we can encourage kids not

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Speaker 3: just to love stories, but to feel brave enough to

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Speaker 3: create their own. So what do you reckon, Locke? Should

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Speaker 3: we get into it?

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Speaker 2: Let's get into it. Andy, welcome to wiggled Talk.

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Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 2: We are so excited and we'd love to talk to

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Speaker 2: you about the children's laureate title and everything that you're

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Speaker 2: doing for that. But I'd just like to start first

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Speaker 2: by kind of asking you what you are like as

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Speaker 2: a boy, and has that kind of come through in

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Speaker 2: how you write your wonderful books.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I tried my best for not to come through,

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Speaker 4: but it just insisted the sort of love of fun.

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Speaker 4: I was curious, I was mischievous. The world was a playground,

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Speaker 4: and it was all there, whether it was through books

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Speaker 4: or through just out on our bikes exploring the pine

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Speaker 4: forest and the creek. It was a very free range

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Speaker 4: sort of childhood by day, out on my bike by night.

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Speaker 4: I had a bedroom full of really great books to

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Speaker 4: have a different type of adventure with.

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Speaker 3: Did your parents encourage reading or is it something you

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Speaker 3: just naturally gravitated to?

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Speaker 4: I think probably to their regret, they accidentally encouraged my reading,

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Speaker 4: derailing their plans and hopes for a lawyer or a doctor.

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Speaker 4: But all I was a doctor Seuss. I had a

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Speaker 4: love of the great Doctor Seue's books. Thought oh this

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Speaker 4: is incredible. So yeah, they certainly did everything correctly in

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Speaker 4: that sense. They filled the house with books. Also readers

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Speaker 4: digest books were some of my early adult forays. They

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Speaker 4: were just in the house. So books were a normal

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Speaker 4: part of my life. And in fact, my mother ran

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Speaker 4: the second hand bookstall at the primary school fate and

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Speaker 4: a few months before every fate, the spare room would

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Speaker 4: fill up with hundreds and hundreds of the neighborhood's donated books,

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Speaker 4: and it was every type of book you can imagine,

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Speaker 4: you know, self help books from the nineteen twenties, some

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Speaker 4: of them classic readers, digest collections of you know, chapters

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Speaker 4: from all sorts of books. And I was in the

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Speaker 4: spare room every night, just in my own private library bookshop.

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Speaker 4: So that was an enormous boon to a young writer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how incredible. The humor you write with, the imagination,

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Speaker 3: the commitment to silliness, everything you write with. And when

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Speaker 3: you spoke about yourself as a child, is that something

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Speaker 3: you've had to try to hold on to or is

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Speaker 3: that just naturally who you are as an adult as well?

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Speaker 4: That was naturally who I was as a child and

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Speaker 4: I am as an adult. The humor very early on, Like,

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Speaker 4: my dad was not well for a little while there,

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Speaker 4: and I wrote him a get well card, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to do the normal get well card,

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Speaker 4: get well soon, that's too boring. I'll just say get

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Speaker 4: well soon, or you are doomed, and a room buried

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Speaker 4: in the backyard underneath a little cross that said domed

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Speaker 4: because I couldn't spell doomed, and that was greeted with

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Speaker 4: great hilarity in the household. Thankfully. Yes, but it was

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Speaker 4: typical of what I've always done instinctually, which is to

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Speaker 4: do the opposite of what the reader expects, which produces

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Speaker 4: surprise and then hopefully laughter, although sometimes the other the

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Speaker 4: other results are shock or disappointment or outrage.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that's why children connect so well with

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Speaker 3: your books, because that element of surprise and it is

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Speaker 3: the opposite to what you'd expect.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think there's a strong tradition of mayhem and

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Speaker 4: topsy turviness in children's writing. And my theory is because

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Speaker 4: kids are growing up in a world that's controlled by adults.

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Speaker 4: The rules are set down, expectations are laid out, and

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Speaker 4: punishments dispensed if you don't do the right thing. So

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Speaker 4: you know, and you have to have those boundaries. I'm

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Speaker 4: not saying rules are bad, but children's books offer a

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Speaker 4: vast sort of cathartic playground where people don't do the

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Speaker 4: right thing, kids break the rules and suffer various consequences

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Speaker 4: as a result. And I think that's a really good

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Speaker 4: safety valve for you as a child, not just the

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Speaker 4: cathartic thing, but also it suggests that there's a whole

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Speaker 4: world outside of whatever your limited world is, And that's

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Speaker 4: the other important thing that I think children's books do

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Speaker 4: for a child.

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Speaker 2: Before you were a full time author at your English teacher,

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Speaker 2: is that right? And in a punk band.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I never had any definite career ambition, apart from

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Speaker 4: to avoid a career. Probably. I was always writing something

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Speaker 4: as a kid, even for my classmates. I was compiling

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Speaker 4: jokes and writing fake news articles, and I was making

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Speaker 4: a little magazine called Popcorn, which I would print off

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Speaker 4: and sell to the other students for three cents a copy.

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Speaker 4: And so that was in like year seven, so I

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Speaker 4: was ten or eleven, and I loved typing, loved the

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Speaker 4: whole idea of writing, and so I was always doing

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Speaker 4: that just for fun. And then I early seventies brought

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Speaker 4: up with Alice Cooper and David Bowie and I was like,

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Speaker 4: that's real writing. I want to do that. So it

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Speaker 4: was just a joke with me and my friends. We

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Speaker 4: had this kind of joke band where we'd made an

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Speaker 4: awful noise. I would yell the words out because I

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Speaker 4: couldn't sing, but I was the lyric writer. And that

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Speaker 4: eventually grew into a serious, serious, underground band in Melbourne

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Speaker 4: in the early eighties, where anyone could get on a

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Speaker 4: stage and make any sort of noise and have an

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Speaker 4: appreciative audience in front of them. So that was kind

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Speaker 4: of accidental, but I realized my real talent was the writing,

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Speaker 4: and I needed a job, and I thought, well, I've

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Speaker 4: always been amused by kids. I love engaging with their imaginations.

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Speaker 4: I loved teasing them. I love saying something completely outrageous

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Speaker 4: and waiting for them to go that's not true, and

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Speaker 4: then I'd go, oh, yes it is, and I'll just

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Speaker 4: invent ridiculous reasons for why it is true. And that's

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Speaker 4: the sort of creative game I've always played with kids.

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Speaker 4: And so I became a high school English teacher. Met

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Speaker 4: many early high school students who had no connection to reading.

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Speaker 4: They've never had a good experience with the book and

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Speaker 4: thought the library was a place of you know, for nerds,

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Speaker 4: and I said, no, you're making a big mistake. Books

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Speaker 4: offer a particular pleasure. They're like a collaboration between you

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Speaker 4: and the author, and together you're making up this what

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Speaker 4: if kind of story. So I began writing for them,

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Speaker 4: just provocative little pieces self and publishing their work with

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Speaker 4: a photocopier and a stapler and going, look, now you're

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Speaker 4: all authors too. And they got the idea that reading

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Speaker 4: and writing is not a passive activity. It's a fun

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Speaker 4: thing where you're affecting someone with your words, so it's communication.

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Speaker 3: And did you think humor is a gateway for that

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Speaker 3: as well? If it's a fun thing, you hadd a

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Speaker 3: lot of humor into which gets that interest into reading

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Speaker 3: and writing and everything around books.

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Speaker 4: I think humor is a gateway to almost anything, but

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Speaker 4: especially books. When the kids were wandering like lost sheep

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Speaker 4: around the library, I'd say, what are you looking for?

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Speaker 4: And they'd say something funny, and I went, yeah, you're

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Speaker 4: just like me as a kid. I was always looking

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Speaker 4: for that, and I couldn't find anything contemporary that was

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Speaker 4: really keeping up with where popular culture was in the

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Speaker 4: late eighties, which was we already had The Simpsons, we

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Speaker 4: had Capt Dave Pilkie's Captain Underpants. We had movies like

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Speaker 4: Jurassic Park, and things that were like movies had freedom

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Speaker 4: to go anywhere and do anything and not give you

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Speaker 4: a message or a moral. They were just for the

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Speaker 4: pure thrill of imagining things. And I went, where's the

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Speaker 4: books that are keeping up with this? So I began

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Speaker 4: to try to create that type of book myself. I

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Speaker 4: didn't know if I could, but I knew kids, including

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Speaker 4: my friends at school when I was young, and the

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Speaker 4: kids in my class, I knew they were responding to

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Speaker 4: this sort of punk energy that I was to the stories.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask my steps on Jasper? He's ten, he's

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Speaker 2: got it, just always on the go. He's got about

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Speaker 2: six or seven books just on the couch and he'll go.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit of his personality, but you know, he'll

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Speaker 2: go and just read a few pages and then pick

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Speaker 2: up the other book and read a few pages of that.

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Speaker 2: But do you think about that when you write? Is

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Speaker 2: that a reason why these are set up by in

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Speaker 2: such little short short stories or is that a separate thing?

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Speaker 4: No, No, that's absolutely I'm part of the way I

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Speaker 4: write is I'm absolutely centered on the child, and I'm

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Speaker 4: writing for the child, probably from a child's point of view.

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Speaker 4: The adult in me is supervising the whole process, you know,

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Speaker 4: editing and thinking all this through, but completely off the

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Speaker 4: stage when i'm writing, because I want that child to

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Speaker 4: be drawn. In the first thing we did in the

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Speaker 4: Just series, i'd watched kids in the library picking up

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Speaker 4: a book and flicking through it suspiciously to see how

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Speaker 4: big the print was. It's too small, I'm not reading that,

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Speaker 4: or there's no pictures, I'm not reading that. So my

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Speaker 4: first thing I said to Terry Denton, put little flick

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Speaker 4: pictures on the corners of the page. So as they're flicking,

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Speaker 4: they'll go, hey, that's pretty cool, you know. Yeah, this

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Speaker 4: skull is losing its flesh and throwing wings and it's

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Speaker 4: flying away. Look at this. So now they're playing with

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Speaker 4: the book, and I figured they would give me a shot.

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Speaker 4: What is this book? You know, I've got their attention,

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Speaker 4: and then i'd work very hard on the first line

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Speaker 4: of the first story, because you've got about thirty seconds

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Speaker 4: to catch them. The very first story was it's eight

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Speaker 4: fifteen and I'm still in bed, I should have been

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Speaker 4: up an hour ago to get ready for school, but

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Speaker 4: I didn't in one to know why because I'm dead

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Speaker 4: and I got them I'm not really dead. I'm just

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Speaker 4: pretending to be dead. I'll get the whole year off

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Speaker 4: school if I can get away with this.

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Speaker 3: Do you still find you need to be observing children

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Speaker 3: to write now or it just comes so naturally to

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Speaker 3: you because you've been doing it for quite a while.

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Speaker 4: It comes naturally. But I'm still running stuff by the kids,

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Speaker 4: just very casually these days. And for many years, I

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Speaker 4: was a visiting author in schools, so that was my

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Speaker 4: living for ten years, was a different school, four shows

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Speaker 4: a day, in front of four different groups of kids,

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Speaker 4: and I would run the particular joke or a storyline

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Speaker 4: four different ways and just work out, ah, that's the

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Speaker 4: way to do that one. Or I'd come home to Jill,

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Speaker 4: my wife, an editor, so they're not responding to this

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Speaker 4: story and I don't understand why, and I would try

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Speaker 4: and try and try until I got it. Or I

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Speaker 4: would throw the idea away because if I can't make

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Speaker 4: it work in person, I've got even less chance when

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Speaker 4: I'm not there, Because that's what a book is it's

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Speaker 4: a performance for an audience, but you're not there and

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Speaker 4: the audience is not there, so you have to imagine them.

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Speaker 4: But it's coming from me, my instinct as a child,

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Speaker 4: what I would like, and then I'm marrying that up

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Speaker 4: with where kids are today, which is not that far away.

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Speaker 4: I don't think I don't think k's have changed fundamentally.

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Speaker 4: Attention spans may have changed, certainly. I use more pictures

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Speaker 4: these days to accommodate the more visual approach to things,

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Speaker 4: but I think kids enjoy that. As I said, topsy

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Speaker 4: turviness of a story where people are not doing the

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Speaker 4: right or the normal thing, or the sensible thing. There's

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Speaker 4: a misunderstanding that you should give children stories where people

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Speaker 4: are modeling good behavior because we want our kids to

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Speaker 4: be well behaved, and I think that's the death knell

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Speaker 4: for a story. They need to see people doing the

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Speaker 4: wrong thing, just as we as adults do. We're not

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Speaker 4: watching mid summers do nice things for your neighbors. We're

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Speaker 4: watching mid Summer's murders. We want to see someone do

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Speaker 4: something bad and get found out. So that was my

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Speaker 4: sort of a battle with a certain type of parent

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Speaker 4: and gatekeeper early on. Was no you don't have to

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Speaker 4: write about nice kids. The more out of control those

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Speaker 4: kids are, the more you pick up the interest in

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Speaker 4: a story.

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Speaker 3: And which then sparks imagination, and then you know, because

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Speaker 3: that's I guess the knock on effect is then for

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Speaker 3: children to start creating their own stories, finding their own

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Speaker 3: stories in their head, and they allowing their imagination to

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Speaker 3: run free.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that. And that's you've just touched on

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Speaker 4: the other major benefit of reading, which is it just

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Speaker 4: grows your imagination because you're exercising it, because you're making

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Speaker 4: sense of those black marks on the page. So you're

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Speaker 4: creating this story in your head. And then the next

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Speaker 4: step is to create your own story featuring perhaps your

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Speaker 4: own family members or friends, or whatever is deeply personal

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Speaker 4: to you. You can then have the fun of playing

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Speaker 4: its playing with dolls or soldiers, toy soldiers. You you

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Speaker 4: get that empowerment of exploring your own imagination. Just as

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Speaker 4: I was, I was using the books I was reading

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Speaker 4: as models for my own wacky takes on those proper stories,

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Speaker 4: and I would go off and do deliberately silly versions

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Speaker 4: of them.

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Speaker 3: If you're a parent and you're wanting your child to

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Speaker 3: find a love of reading, and maybe you haven't quite

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Speaker 3: got there naturally, Where can a parent start? Is it

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Speaker 3: about just making up stories first before you get to

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Speaker 3: a book, like, how can we kind of get that

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Speaker 3: love of reading and stories?

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Speaker 4: It could be if you have the talent of improvising stories,

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Speaker 4: then use that, But it absolutely starts with the child

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Speaker 4: and observing them and listening to what are they interested in?

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Speaker 4: And it may not be books. It quite possibly won't

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Speaker 4: be books. It could be cars, in which case I'd go, well,

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Speaker 4: can we find a book about a car? I'd go

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Speaker 4: to a library first, and if it was a comic

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Speaker 4: about a car, that would be fantas But some parents

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Speaker 4: might think, oh, but comic is not a proper book.

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Speaker 4: I can't. Can't you find something proper? But there's no

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Speaker 4: such thing as proper When it comes to hooking a

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Speaker 4: kid into reading, it's whatever works, and that be fiction,

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Speaker 4: non fiction, graphic, non graphic. I think a child today

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Speaker 4: is luckier than ever because there are so many different

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Speaker 4: types of books available for so many different types of interests.

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Speaker 4: But it could be, you know, just a magazine whatever.

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Speaker 4: A car magazine is called now Hot Wheels monthly. And

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Speaker 4: if that's all they do they pour over that. Then

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Speaker 4: they're hooking up with one of their interests and absorbing

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Speaker 4: that information, and that could lead trying to think now

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Speaker 4: of a famous book about a car, Chitty chitty bang bang,

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Speaker 4: you might say, you might like to try this. It

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Speaker 4: may be too old fashioned already, and just because you

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Speaker 4: enjoyed it as a child does not mean they are

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Speaker 4: going to enjoy it. In fact, a lot of what

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Speaker 4: I do is updates of venid blatant books that I

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Speaker 4: loved so much, The Magic Faraway Tree and The Wishing Chair.

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Speaker 4: They feel a little dated now as you read them.

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Speaker 4: They still work, but they've got a slight old fashionedness.

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Speaker 4: But I'm taking the spirit of that, that spirit of adventure,

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Speaker 4: fantasy adventure, and the sense that you don't know quite

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Speaker 4: what's going to happen when you turn that page. The

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Speaker 4: thing that I was getting from a book. I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 4: I can't wait to turn the paper, What's going to happen?

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Speaker 4: Now that's the type of book I'm trying to create

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Speaker 4: for the kids. So yeah, trips to the library, maybe

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Speaker 4: a bookshop. Talk to other parents, what are your kids reading?

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Speaker 4: They'll quickly tell you the books that they're reading, and

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Speaker 4: just try it out and be patient with the child

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Speaker 4: to find what works.

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Speaker 3: Now. I love your new book here, which he held before.

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Speaker 3: Let's Go is great because it gives the child the

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Speaker 3: ability to come up with their own stories and to

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Speaker 3: use their imagination and from you give little sort of

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Speaker 3: hints about where to go and what to do, and

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Speaker 3: then the child can kind of run away and use

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Speaker 3: their own imagination. And I guess a parent could do this,

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Speaker 3: whether the child has ability to write that well yet

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Speaker 3: or not. A parent can kind of talk through this

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Speaker 3: book with their child, Like my little boy ashes five

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Speaker 3: and so he's still just learning, but there's something we

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Speaker 3: could do with him now with regards to this book

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Speaker 3: which will allow him to vocalize a story and start

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Speaker 3: to come up with his own stories.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's full of open ended activities which are more

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Speaker 4: like just a question or posing a little creative problem

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Speaker 4: for instances. One I like it says, imagine you've just

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Speaker 4: jumped down a hole, draw the land that you find

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Speaker 4: at the bottom of the hole, and you don't have

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Speaker 4: to do any writing, just start drawing. You like Lolly's

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Speaker 4: it's Lollyland. What would you find in Lollyland? And as

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Speaker 4: they're drawing, you can talk to them, draw out what's

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Speaker 4: the nicest thing in Lollyland, what would be the evil lolly?

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Speaker 4: What would be the problem there? And I might even

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Speaker 4: just get them to label some of the things. You know,

401
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 4: what's the name of that one, So that the drawing

402
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Speaker 4: and the writing is secondary to the fun of inventing something.

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Speaker 4: That's what's key. And also that there's no right answer,

404
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Speaker 4: that it's whatever you want it to be. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: these are activities that are based. I discovered this as

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Speaker 4: a teacher, that you can't be creative unless you have

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Speaker 4: a problem to solve. So your job as a writing

408
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Speaker 4: teacher is simply to set a simple problem that has

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Speaker 4: an infinite amount of an answers, but just to give

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00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 4: them little parameters. And in that whole thing, I give

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Speaker 4: them a set space so that they're not going, oh,

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Speaker 4: how big does the drawing have to be or whatever.

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Speaker 4: I've made a few decisions for them so they can

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Speaker 4: be creative as possible within the parameters. And I find

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Speaker 4: that everyone's got an imagination, Everyone is creative. It's just

416
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Speaker 4: having the reason to exercise it is what's going on there.

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Speaker 2: I love the little rock that rolls down the hill

418
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Speaker 2: and then gets used and then gets skimmed, and then

419
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: finds itself at the bottom of the ocean, just sitting

420
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Speaker 2: with the fish and having his new life down there.

421
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Speaker 2: It's so beautiful and it's great.

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Speaker 4: Well, one of the things in children's literature. I've got

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Speaker 4: this great book called Feeling Like a Kid, if anyone

424
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Speaker 4: wants to look it up. It's called by Jerry Griswold,

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Speaker 4: and he says, all children's books have five major features,

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Speaker 4: and the features make a child feel like a child.

427
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 4: As they're reading the book, you're seeing through the child's eyes.

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Speaker 4: And one of those features is everything has a face.

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Speaker 4: So when you're little, everything is animated. You know that banana,

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Speaker 4: that black banana in the fruit bowl as a sort

431
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Speaker 4: of angry face. I haven't been eaten. Why I've just

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Speaker 4: been lefty. You literally can see a face in rocks,

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Speaker 4: in trees. All animals can talk, and that's why you

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00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 4: find so many talking animals and objects in a children's book,

435
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 4: because that feels right to a child, and also in

436
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 4: our case, it's a fantastic opportunity for humor. You know,

437
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 4: what does the world look like to a rock? And

438
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 4: when you're teaching empathy too, so that rock you're picking up,

439
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 4: really want to be skimmed. Let's look at things from

440
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 4: not just your point of view, but other points of view.

441
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 4: So there's so much going on in a children's book,

442
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 4: and a humor is a humorous book too, demanding quite

443
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: a lot of the reader. Even though it's the ultimate

444
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 4: purpose is pleasure, there's all these other benefits along the way.

445
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: One of my daughters, they love ed Ryd Clay at

446
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: the moment, and literally the other night that she made

447
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 2: a banana with a.

448
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 4: Face on it.

449
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 2: That's so funny. You just said that was the cutest

450
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: little banana and they had to make sure the eyes

451
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: were right and a little smile was on this banana

452
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 2: because I had a face. That's so funny.

453
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then once you got that banana, I can't

454
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 4: help going, you know what's next? You know, what does

455
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 4: banana want? What's it scared of? Yes, that's exactly the

456
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 4: improvisation process that me and Terry Denton or now Bill

457
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 4: Hope will go through. We're just playing. That's it the

458
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 4: heart of everything we do. And I think it's a

459
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 4: big part of the appeal is that we're just The

460
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 4: kids recognize it too. They know we're just playing with words,

461
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: with pictures, with ideas. We're just throwing them around and

462
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 4: seeing what they do and what they can't do. And

463
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 4: that's often what's missed by adults is they'll just see

464
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: pointless repetition. For instance, in the Treehouse Books as a

465
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 4: cartoon called Barkie the Barking Dog, and the joke is

466
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 4: that you just see the dog barking for the entire

467
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 4: episode at pretty much nothing. And so we have five

468
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 4: pages of just a barking dog, which delights me. It's

469
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: completely unnecessary, it's wearing out the reader's patients, but it's

470
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 4: beautiful and that's why it's funny, because nothing's happening, and

471
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 4: the kids get that intuitively. Yes, as an adult, we're

472
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 4: looking for purpose. We've got things to do, we haven't

473
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 4: got time. Just read five pages of a dog barking

474
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 4: it what's the purpose? But that's the beauty of humor.

475
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 4: And I would argue many children's books is that you

476
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 4: come back to an appreciation for the world and appreciation

477
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: for wonder and just for isn't being alive amazing Beneath

478
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 4: the to do list? You need both, but certainly laughter

479
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 4: can bring you out of that sort of got to

480
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 4: get things done into a more open way of approaching

481
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 4: the world, which ironically, I think can help you get

482
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 4: things done better.

483
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. We fill our days now with every

484
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: moment is full, and we do that with our children

485
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 3: as well. So when you're writing or creating, do you

486
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 3: need to give yourself just time and space to sit?

487
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: And you know, I think we would have called it

488
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 3: in the past, you know, sitting and being bored. And

489
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,239
Speaker 3: we don't really allow ourselves to be bored anymore. But

490
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: is it through that time of boredom that we actually

491
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: allow our imagination our creativity to flourish.

492
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, And I probably prefer the word space space yep.

493
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 4: Boredom has a sort of negative quality to me. Yes,

494
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 4: but yeah, it's where you've got space to just and

495
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 4: look around and think what do I want to do now? Yeah.

496
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 4: It bothers me a lot of the scheduling of children,

497
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: as if the whole purpose of childhood is to be

498
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,959
Speaker 4: prepared as an adult. I don't think it is. I

499
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 4: think the purpose of childhood is to have a childhood

500
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 4: with a child, and to be a child, and to

501
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 4: have space to be interested in the things that you're

502
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 4: interested in and that may well be dancing or singing,

503
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 4: and there may well be a case for a lesson

504
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 4: in that, not for dancing and singing, and then football

505
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 4: training and then you know, language classes and extra maths

506
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 4: thing that's packing out the schedule, so there's no room

507
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 4: for creativity or space for the child to even read

508
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 4: a book. You know, where have I've got time for reading?

509
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 4: I'm too busy doing these things, and I think that's

510
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 4: a pity. So yeah, I'm very careful. I've got two

511
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 4: grown up daughters, but we were always quite happy just

512
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 4: leaving them to do nothing. And it works for us too.

513
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: It's easier, you don't have to drop of it. And

514
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: you've just stepped into this national role as Australia's Children's

515
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: Laureate and your theme is reading is an adventure. So

516
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: what when you say that, what are you hoping for

517
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: children and parents to get out of? Get out of that?

518
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 4: Many children will see reading as a chore or just

519
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 4: something they've got to do because they're being told to

520
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: do it, And I'm like, yeah, but it's also an

521
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 4: opportunity to go somewhere you've never been before, in either

522
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 4: your imagination or in reality. If it's nonfiction. I remember

523
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 4: the book I loved was Confessions of a Sword Swallower,

524
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 4: which was the biography of a nineteen forties Carnie entertainer

525
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 4: who learned to swallow swords as part of his thing.

526
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: And it's a very detailed description of what that involves,

527
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 4: how it feels when the sword hits the pit of

528
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 4: his stomach, how you have to try to get better

529
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 4: than everyone else by using early fluorescent light technology and

530
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 4: lighting up your chest from the inside and hoping that

531
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 4: it doesn't get too hot to get stuck to your

532
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 4: skin so that you end up with a fluorescent light

533
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 4: exploding in your chest. Like to me, this was so

534
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 4: far out of anything I could have imagined growing up

535
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 4: in nineteen seventies Melbourne Eastern Suburbs, and it's something I've

536
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 4: never forgotten. I was like, reading gave me that I

537
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 4: travel to a carnival in nineteen forties, And every book

538
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 4: that you pick up can potentially transport you to somewhere,

539
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 4: and you're better off for that because your world has expanded.

540
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 4: You then have the imagination to imagine what's right for you.

541
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 4: Maybe not what your parents or teachers might be suggesting

542
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 4: is right for you, but what do you want? That

543
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 4: takes imagination to know that. So, yeah, reading is an

544
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 4: adventure and it can be terrifying to go to certain

545
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 4: places in a book. It can also be really pleasant.

546
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 4: But it talks to that idea I mentioned earlier. You

547
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 4: never know what's going to happen when you turn that page,

548
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 4: and that takes courage.

549
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: With your role as Australian children's lauriate, what does that

550
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: actually involved for you?

551
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 4: It involves getting this message out there loud and strong,

552
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: as I have been for my whole career, but also

553
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 4: provides me a national stage and the opportunity to travel

554
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 4: to every state and territory in Australia over the next

555
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 4: two years doing shows for kids and their parents. I

556
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 4: love doing large family groups, teasing the kids and outraging

557
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 4: them and watching them get outraged, and their parents enjoy

558
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 4: watching me have to deal with them. It's entertainment of

559
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 4: the whole family, with the ultimate effect being that the

560
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 4: kids come away and want to read crazy. So converting

561
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: readers is one of my main things, but also talking

562
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 4: to adults about the importance of it and that we

563
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 4: shouldn't just accept that because there's a lot of digital

564
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 4: content now that we just give up. I think an

565
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 4: adult's job is to balance a child's life, for them,

566
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 4: to create the space we were talking about, to make

567
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 4: sure there's opportunities for activity but also reading and a balance,

568
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 4: a balanced approach to life. And if you can work

569
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: in some story time, a ritual within your family where

570
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 4: at a certain time of day could well be bedtime,

571
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 4: there's half an hour where you and the child engage

572
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 4: with a book together, very very powerful. And I get

573
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,959
Speaker 4: so much feedback from parents and children who've bonded over

574
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,959
Speaker 4: many years, sometimes with all the books. Grateful parents who've

575
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 4: said you saved our family's sanity when we were traveling

576
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 4: around Australia and we had your audio books to listen to.

577
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 4: They bring people together. And that's what I want to emphasize.

578
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 4: That it's not books or movies or computer games. It

579
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 4: can be books. And the books are doing a particular

580
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 4: thing where you get totally lost inside it. And a

581
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 4: good book is like a friend for life. You never

582
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 4: forget the feeling that it gave you.

583
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 3: The sword Swallower, never forget it.

584
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 4: Anyone wants to look it up with. Dan Mannix is

585
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 4: his name, and he wrote many other very interesting books.

586
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: It's fascinating, but it does, I mean, the work you do,

587
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 3: it reignites for parents as well, the importance of reading,

588
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: because I mean I read a little bit, but nothing

589
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 3: like I used to, just because of what life becomes.

590
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: So a good reminder that it's important for parents to

591
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: be reading as well. And the most precious time we

592
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 3: have at home these days really is that before bed

593
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 3: reading with ashe sitting there, like you said, for about

594
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 3: half now we read books together and that is such

595
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 3: a beautiful time that we get to spend together as

596
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 3: a family.

597
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and for the adults, it's time spent back in

598
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 4: seeing the world as a child again. And the previous

599
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 4: Laurier Morris Kleitzman was very big on that benefit that

600
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 4: adults should read more children's books because then they get

601
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 4: that perspective to enrich their adult lives. But you know,

602
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 4: the bottom line is, if you've spent your childhood reading books,

603
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 4: you have a certain base level of literacy which is

604
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 4: enough to get you through your life and open up

605
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 4: many possibilities that those without literacy don't have. So to me,

606
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 4: that's base one. Some people may go on to like

607
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 4: I do, to read books for pleasure all their lives.

608
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 4: Others will go off into the car racing again or

609
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 4: deep sea diving. But even then I would point out

610
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 4: to those kids books will help you develop your skill

611
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 4: in whatever area of interest that you have. Certainly, when

612
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 4: I wanted to become a writer, I reached for writing books.

613
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 4: And any problem in my life, I reach for a book.

614
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 4: It's going to help me. If your child is struggling

615
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 4: with reading, and there may be good reasons for that.

616
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 4: And the most recent Children's Laureate, Sally Rippon, wrote a

617
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 4: book called Wild Things about her passion that her own

618
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 4: child was given appropriate help and diagnosed with what was

619
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 4: making it difficult for him to read. So I would

620
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 4: encourage parents to explore that without getting anxious, because the

621
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 4: minute anxiety and expectation is there, you can be killing

622
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 4: a lot of the fun that makes reading voluntary act

623
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 4: activity rather than an enforced one full of tension.

624
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 3: That's a great point.

625
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,959
Speaker 2: So much of what just listening to this you speak, Andy,

626
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 2: it reminds me of Anthony here at work so much.

627
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 2: You've got the same yeah yeah message is the same

628
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 2: love of what you do. So many things just ticked

629
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: away something that Anthony would have said, but with wiggles

630
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: and music in mind. So thank you so much for

631
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: everything you do for children and books and reading.

632
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 4: And it's my pleasure. It's all coming because I'm a

633
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 4: failed musician myself, and I do think there is a

634
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 4: very strong connection between reading, writing and music. At its base,

635
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 4: its rhythm, and a lot of when I'm writing a story,

636
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 4: it's like I'm listening to it. Does that sound good? Yeah,

637
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 4: that's the way I've put those words. That's that sounds

638
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 4: musical and sounds correct. So that's another famous Australian picture

639
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 4: book writer, men Fox wrote a book where she urged

640
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 4: people to read to their child even when they're in

641
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 4: the womb, because they're picking up the rhythms of speech

642
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 4: and story. So I think it's a way you can

643
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 4: really give your child an enormous advantage is just to

644
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 4: tune them into language from the earliest possible age.

645
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 3: Unreal.

646
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Andy, my pleasure.

647
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.

648
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: So great chatting with you. Thank you for your time

649
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 3: and thanks for coming on. We will talk.

650
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 4: Thanks Andy, I've always wanted to be on Legal Talk.

651
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 4: That's the best name for a podcast.

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00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 3: Great chat with Andy and what you said, Lockie, I

653
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: was thinking the same thing about writing and music and

654
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: about Anthony and our world here and how we're the

655
00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 3: process we go through to work out always putting the

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00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 3: child first, which is what he does when he writes,

657
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: thinking about the way they're going to child or respond

658
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 3: to things, relate to things. And I think what we

659
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: always try to do was that sense of fun, silliness

660
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 3: and play, which is obviously such a huge part of

661
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 3: the writing that he does and which comes across in

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00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 3: his books.

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00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does with the repetition that there's just so

664
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 2: many little markers there that even when he was talking

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00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 2: about his music career and oh no, sorry, the first

666
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 2: line of each each of his books, Yeah, yeah, which

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00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: and answer is always why he's always started with a

668
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 2: chorus and a song, because you have to get that,

669
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: you've got to grab them. He's just what a great guy.

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00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 2: And just after we stopped recording, we had a great

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00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: chat about music too. So he's just one of those

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00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 2: brains that keeps learning and keeps wanting to Yeah.

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00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 3: And like you were saying, he wants to read new books,

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00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 3: he wants to listen to new music, he wants to

675
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 3: see what's out there.

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00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was awesome.

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00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, really great chat and you Andy, that.

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00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 2: Is awful wiggle talk today. Thank you for listening. If

679
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: you want to check out Andy's new book. This is

680
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 2: called Let's Go and we've popped the link in the

681
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 2: show notes and I out for all the wonderful things.

682
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 2: And he is doing as the Australian Children's Laureate.

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00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 3: His theme is reading is an adventure, which we chatted

684
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: about and we have a feeling that we plenty to

685
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: inspire families, readers and little storytellers along the way. Look,

686
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: if you've been enjoying wigl Talk, you can rate and

687
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 3: review us. You know you can. You can do that.

688
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 3: What it does is it helps other parents find the

689
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 3: show so I can enjoy it too, it does.

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00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to wigled Talk. See you later,

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00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: Thank you, goodbye,