1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: We told you about this on the show yesterday. The 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: States and territories are on a collision course with the 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: Commonwealth over public hospital funding, with health ministers expressing white 4 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: hot anger, according to the ABC Nationally over this letter 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: from the Prime Minister demanding that they rein in spending 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: if they want a funding deal honored now. In that report, 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: Anthony Albanezi made the request in September, writing to state 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: and territory leaders saying that they must slash growth if 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: they want a public hospital funding commitment. Well, if they 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: want it implemented now, it's pretty wild. In this letter, 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: it says for states and territories to realize a Commonwealth 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: contribution of forty two point five percent of public hospital 13 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: costs by twenty thirty to thirty one under the capped 14 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: glide path model, it will be necessary for your government 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: to work to reduce growth in hospital activity and costs 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: to more sustainable levels. Now, joining me on well in 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: the studio is a man who has been advocating for 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: an increase in funding when it comes to hospitals in 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. And I would say somebody who's got 20 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: a better idea than just about anybody. How busy our 21 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: hospitals are. It is doctor John's Orbis from the AMA 22 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory. Good morning to you, Doctor's Orbis. 23 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: Morning Katie, thanks for having us. 24 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for joining me this morning 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: on the show. Now John, this report it angered our 26 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: listeners yesterday. They were questioning how on earth the Prime 27 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: Minister expects a hospital to decrease demand. I mean, how 28 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: did you feel when you learned that the Prime Minister 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 1: had written to state and territory leaders essentially asking them 30 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: to do that. 31 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, the letter just induces white hot rage. And I 32 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: imagine that your text line has been blowing up with 33 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: listeners who also, I think, probably have a pretty good 34 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: handle on how funding and the lack of funding is 35 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: affecting us. Especially up here in the territory. We've got 36 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: ministers arguing over the color of the curtains or the 37 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: building's on fire and we're all inside it. It's not 38 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: a great feeling. 39 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: No, it would not be good at all. Like I 40 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: think to myself, anyone that's been to our hospitals, whether 41 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: it's Cella Springs Hospital, whether it's Royal Darwin, you know, 42 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: whether you're at Catherine Hospital, whether you're at Palmerston, doesn't 43 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: matter where you are. We know the staff are working 44 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: so incredibly hard to deliver health services to Territorians, but 45 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: you know it's under real stress. Yeah. 46 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 2: I mean these kinds of discussions show the complete disconnect 47 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: between the people making the decisions about our funding and 48 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: the actual state of reality inside our hospitals. You can't 49 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: cut your way to excellence in a system that is 50 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: already running on empty. And that's the big difference up here. 51 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: I'm not here to say that every decision made in 52 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 2: the hospital is perfect and efficient. We know where the 53 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 2: efficiencies are and we repeat multiple times. Just let doctors 54 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: and nurses be doctors and nurses and you'll find your savings. 55 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: But for that kind of letter and this kind of 56 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: idea that you can just trim the fat, well, the 57 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: fat was trimmed in the Australian healthcare system years ago. 58 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. I was thinking to myself, we've literally just come 59 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: out of a cold yellow like what other you know, 60 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: these no more fat to trim And. 61 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: It's really it's a really dangerous position to take because 62 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: if you just put a cap on funding and scriminatet 63 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: cap on funding, you know you start to develop safety risks. 64 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: If you've got one doctor doing the job of two 65 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: or three, that's not efficiency or hih vague care, that's 66 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: just a safety risk. You delay care as well. Every 67 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: dollar we don't spend on a hip replacement now is 68 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: going to cost ten or more in the future, and 69 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 2: it just makes eventual care more expensive. It's got to 70 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: happen at some point, and it doesn't allow for innovation. 71 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: So there's all this talk of doing things smarter than harder, 72 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: and I agree with that, but that needs capital. You 73 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: can't just squeeze budgets because it'll make people cling to 74 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: the old, safer, well known way of doing things. So 75 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: who's going to take that risk? Which hospital manager is 76 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: going to take that risk? 77 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: No, that's exactly right. But also when you're already sort 78 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: of operating at almost crisis level, how are you going 79 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: to take that risk? Ever, you're already you know, you're 80 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: already operating at your one hundred percent capacity. 81 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: And the real rich part of this letter is that 82 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: the majority of where we're being let down up here 83 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: is a federal responsibility. So the four hundred million dollars 84 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: that we've banned around before, we're talking about the way 85 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: we fund our hospitals, the way we fund aged care, 86 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: the way we find retrieval medicine in the top end, 87 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: and primary care, especially remote and rural care. The hospitals 88 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: aren't the problem. This is just cost shifting. It's rich 89 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: of the Feds to blame the hospitals. Well, primary care 90 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: has been crumbling under their watch. The solution is to 91 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: fund GPS, not defund hospitals. 92 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: Now tell me, John, I know that the Queensland Health 93 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: Minister Tim Nichols, when he received this letter. He seed 94 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: upon reading the letter, my immediate response was that it 95 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: was almost beyond belief that the Prime Minister would write 96 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: to us saying that we have to work to reduce 97 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: growth in hospital activity. He said, does he want us 98 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: to go out there and close the front door to 99 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:40,559 Speaker 1: our emergency department so or stop taking ambulance delivering sick 100 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: patients to our emergency wards? He said, you know, like 101 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: he's obviously frustrated. I mean, we get to hear from 102 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Health minister, but I would imagine that 103 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: he feels the same. I mean, is it even possible 104 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: to reduce growth when we've got an aging population? We've 105 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: got quite a sick population, and we've got issues that 106 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: you probably don't even see in any other state or 107 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: territory or maybe some you know, maybe some parts of 108 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: WA or northern queensign. But we've got illnesses that, in 109 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: a lot of cases, you just don't see anywhere else. 110 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, this letter is just this one size fits all, 111 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: you know, blaming the firefighter for using too much water. 112 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: I mean, our fire is bigger and it's different. I 113 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: think renal disease, kidney disease is a great example of 114 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: this up here. Dialysis isn't discretionary, right, Like, you can't 115 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 2: just efficiency your way out of renal failure on paper. 116 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 2: If you look at us on a spreadsheeting, Camebra, we 117 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: have double the number of admissions per person in the 118 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: country roughly, And that just looks like waste. It looks 119 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: like overservicing. It looks like we're admitting too many people 120 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: to hospital. But that's a misdiagnosis of the problem. Anybody 121 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: on the ground in the territory will know that what 122 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: we see is kidney disease. Almost half of those admissions 123 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: are dialysis, right, they're treated as a hospital admission on paper. 124 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: Now that happens three times a week, fifty two weeks 125 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: a year. These aren't unnecessary, right, It's chronic disease driving 126 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: the cost of healthcare here and the rest of the 127 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 2: country might not see that when you take dialoge so 128 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 2: out of the numbers, when you take the outlier out, 129 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: we're one of the most efficient providers in the country. 130 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: There's a standardized unit called an en wow, and it 131 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: won't bore your listeners, but essentially it's one kilo of healthcare. 132 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 2: And if you standardize that and you look at how 133 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 2: much we spend, we're actually incredibly efficient. You just can't 134 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: see that on the spreadsheet. 135 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, I know that. Today the Graton 136 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 1: Institutes released a report on hospital spending, claiming these smarter 137 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: ways to spend money in hospitals and for example, state 138 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: and territory governments set unrealistically low budgets at the start 139 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: of the year, then they bail out hospitals when they 140 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: run a deficit at the end of the year. What's 141 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: your take on that report? Is this the case in 142 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: your experience? 143 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, the headline sounds bad. There's some truth here. 144 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: The way we fund hospitals on budgets that we know 145 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: are going to fail. 146 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: Right. 147 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: You recall at the time Minister lawl are saying we 148 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: were badly behaved for overspending on health. Well, she set 149 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: the number, so you said an unachievable number, You're going 150 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: to get a unachievable result. Welcome a conversation about value, okay. 151 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: And we can be inefficient, but often that inefficiency is 152 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: caused by underfunding. Right. So a great example again is 153 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: elective surgery. We don't do as much of it up 154 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: here as we could or we should, but anybody who 155 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: lives here knows we've got problems with our private system 156 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: and the private hospital which shoulders most of this elective 157 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 2: surgery work in the rest of the country. The Graton report, 158 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: you know, they're three headline solutions, and again they're just 159 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: looking at Australia. Let's talk about the NT. Their three 160 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: headline solutions are more age care beds. 161 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: Well, thanks, that's no surprise. 162 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: We have the lowest number of age care beds per 163 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: capita in the country, more than half less than anybody else. Right, 164 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: so when they talk about age care, I'd gladly welcome 165 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: a federal injection of money to fix that. That is 166 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 2: a federal responsibility, and the other two headlines were centralized 167 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: the costs of delivering this care, so sharing costs across 168 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: services and centralizing high level care. I mean there is 169 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: no more hospital more centralized in this country than Royal 170 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: duh On Hospital. 171 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: We have to be right, exactly. 172 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: And you know when we talk about centralizing care, it's 173 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: interesting that the report doesn't cost doesn't touch on the 174 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: cost of travel. It's obviously written by someone who can 175 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: go one suburb away to receive their care. Now, you know, 176 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: they should come and see our hospitals. Yeah, maybe they 177 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: should start their journey and what I maybe they should 178 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: start it in Ramo, you know, or go and make 179 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: their way across to the final destination is Royal Darwin 180 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 2: and just see how difficult and how different the problem is. 181 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: And then when they see how much they spend, well, 182 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: maybe people might be coming here to look at the solutions. 183 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, doctors orbish. You and I speak often, right, 184 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: and we have been over the last few weeks because 185 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: there's been such a spotlight on health and we've been 186 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: speaking about, you know, some of the difficult situations. So 187 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: then you know, when I see that there's this letter 188 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: coming from the Prime Minister. I think to myself, well, 189 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: maybe elbow needs to go and stand in the emergency 190 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: department for twenty four hours at Royal Dahen Hospital and 191 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: see how it looks. Yeah. 192 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: I welcome every decision maker from the Prime Minister right 193 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: down to everybody in the territory. And our citizens do 194 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: it every day every day they're in the emergency department, 195 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 2: see feeling it. They see what our doctors and nurses 196 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: do and they know we're working as hard as we can. 197 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: I welcome absolutely any decision maker to come spend some 198 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 2: time with us. And so it looks like on the ground. 199 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: And I spoke about it yesterday on air, just sort 200 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: of you know, amusing and saying, oh, you know, but 201 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: we'd probably you know, make sure things weren't looking as 202 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: busy at the hospital. And then I thought, do you 203 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: know what, No, our doctors and nurses wouldn't be able 204 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: to do that. You guys be going n You can 205 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: need to see this in all its glory, what we 206 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: deal with every single day, and it's bloody busy, there 207 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: is no doubt about it. Now. I just want to 208 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: ask as well, I mean, you've been pushing for increased funding, 209 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: saying that we're four hundred million dollars down. Do you 210 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: feel like we're ever going to get the increase that 211 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: we really need from the federal government. 212 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: We could, right, the money can be there. We spend 213 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: billions and billions and billions of dollars on stuff all 214 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 2: the time at a federal level, and when you look 215 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: at what it would take to bring us up, it's 216 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: a drop in the ocean compared to other jurisdictions. Now, 217 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: we're not asking for something that we think is more 218 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: than we deserve. I will say we've got a higher 219 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 2: burden of disease in almost any category of disease across 220 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: the country. When you are just for sickness, when you 221 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 2: are just for the amount of work that needs to 222 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 2: be done. All we're asking for is what's fair. We 223 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: have slipped behind each year after year, successive government after government, 224 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: federal territory. You know, we're behind the starting line, well 225 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: behind it. All we're asking for is to come back 226 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: to the starting line. So if we can't do that, 227 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: and if we can't prioritize health, then what can we 228 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: do without health? You have nothing? 229 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I heard the member for Solomon on the 230 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: ABC this morning. You know, just very briefly saying that, 231 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: you know, the federal governments increase the Northern Territory funding 232 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: when it comes to health. 233 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: Is that your take on this, Look, it's technically true, 234 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 2: but it still doesn't bring us to the starting line. So, yes, 235 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: there was a one off uplift that that's brought us 236 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: closer to where we need to be, but it's still 237 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 2: below the average. So if you take the average that 238 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: the common warthships in for all other jurisdictions, we're about 239 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: sixty seven percent below that. That's hundreds of millions of dollars. 240 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: It's not pocket change. And when we talk about waste, 241 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: you know there is waste in healthcare. There are things 242 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: we can do better. And the position from our doctors 243 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: is that a lot of what we're seeing as waste 244 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: is not clinical. Treating a sick patient in a bed 245 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 2: isn't a waste. The waste is the administrative burden that 246 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 2: it takes to deliver that care and navigating a very 247 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 2: fragmented system. I think the n DIES is a perfect 248 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: example of how fragmented things have become. The gains are 249 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: not going to be found at the bedside, it's just 250 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 2: not there. And you know, there's always quality projects that 251 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: we're doing at the bedside to make care better. There's 252 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: always new technologies we're embracing, right, but we've been doing 253 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: that for forever and that's not going to find you 254 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: four hundred million dollars. That's going to find you slight gains. 255 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: Well. Doctor John Sawbers, the head of the AMA here 256 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory, always appreciate your time. Thanks so 257 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: much for taking the time to come into the studio 258 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: and see yesterday. 259 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: Thanks for having us, Katie, thank you, Thanks so much.