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Speaker 1: Now if you've just joined us this morning, the Australian

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Speaker 1: newspaper is reporting today that a domestic violence perpetrator who

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Speaker 1: has reportedly been jailed multiple times for breaching domestic violence

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Speaker 1: orders is on the staff of the Northern Territories opposition

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Speaker 1: spokesman for the Prevention of Domestic Violence. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: in the studio right now is Steve Edgington, the member

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Speaker 1: four Barkley.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Steve, Oh.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, and good morning to all the listeners

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Speaker 3: across the territory.

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Speaker 1: Steve, why did you employ someone who's reportedly faced territory

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Speaker 1: courts twenty seven times in the past four years on

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Speaker 1: serious domestic violence related charges, including multiple counts of contravening

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Speaker 1: a domestic violence order and breach of bail.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's get back to the facts, Katie. This is

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Speaker 3: new information to me. Certainly a journalist contacted me yesterday

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Speaker 3: morning and presented those that information to me, saying that

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Speaker 3: there was a multiple number of domestic violence offenses previously committed. Look,

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Speaker 3: when I employed mister plumber normal processes filling out an

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Speaker 3: employment form, he certainly declared to me that there was

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Speaker 3: two recent breaches of a domestic violence order. I had

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Speaker 3: a long conversation with him about that. It was only

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Speaker 3: yesterday that I was made aware of other offenses that

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Speaker 3: allegedly were committed us.

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Speaker 1: So you weren't aware of his history. You weren't aware

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Speaker 1: of the extent of his history. I mean, like facing

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Speaker 1: territory courts twenty seven times in the past four years.

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Speaker 3: Certainly not and that's, you know, I need to be

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Speaker 3: open about that. I certainly wasn't aware of that. I

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Speaker 3: spoke to a journalist yesterday about that very issue. I

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Speaker 3: was made aware of two matters and had a very

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Speaker 3: lengthy discussion with mister Plumber about those two matters. That

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Speaker 3: was declared on his employment form that was sent to

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Speaker 3: the department, and as part of the employment process. We

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Speaker 3: certainly considered those two matters very very carefully, because look,

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Speaker 3: I'm one of the strongest advocates when it comes to,

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Speaker 3: you know, trying to reduce domestic, family and sexual violence.

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Speaker 3: I don't support any factors that contribute to domestic violence.

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Speaker 3: The facts remain is that these offenses were committed prior

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Speaker 3: to him coming into my office.

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Speaker 1: I mean it is reported though that he was jailed

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Speaker 1: twice last year, just months before he was appointed the

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Speaker 1: electorate officer for you, is that are they the two

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Speaker 1: incidents that you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: When they are the two that I'm aware of? It?

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Speaker 2: Lie, did he tell you that they were four?

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Speaker 3: Well, what he told me was it that, yes, there

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Speaker 3: was a domestic violence order in place, and he told

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Speaker 3: me that the breaches involved consuming alcohol. Now it is

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Speaker 3: common in all parts of the Northern Territory that domestic

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Speaker 3: violence orders are in place, and one of the conditions

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Speaker 3: of his domestic violence order was not to consume alcohol

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Speaker 3: in anywhere near his partner.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is, though, it's a pretty serious

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Speaker 1: situation if you've if you've been to jail twice in

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Speaker 1: the last year, and then to obviously be given that job.

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Speaker 1: I know you've said that you're aware of those two incidents,

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Speaker 1: but you're saying on one hand that you are one

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Speaker 1: of the strongest advocates when it comes to domestic violence,

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Speaker 1: but then you're employing somebody who has reportedly perpetrated domestic violence.

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Speaker 3: I think when we discuss these things, you know, at

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Speaker 3: what point do we never employ somebody that's committed an offense?

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Speaker 3: And I think this is very important, and these are

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Speaker 3: the things that went through my mind when I employed him.

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Speaker 3: At what point do we want to rehabilitate offenders an

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Speaker 3: offender that served his time, accepted to responsibility for his actions.

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Speaker 3: At what point do we put somebody back into the

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Speaker 3: workforce try to rehabilitate that person given an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: break the cycle and become a better citizen, not only

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Speaker 3: in the Barclay or across the territory.

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Speaker 1: The fact I get what you're saying, and I totally

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Speaker 1: understand the point that you're trying to make. But to

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Speaker 1: others out there listening, they're going to be thinking to themselves,

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Speaker 1: how though, can you, as the opposition spokesperson for domestic violence,

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Speaker 1: then have this person who has reportedly been in gay

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Speaker 1: aged and in domestic violence, then you know, on your

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Speaker 1: team and going along two meetings with you presumably and

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Speaker 1: being privy to discussions about you know, incidents of domestic

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Speaker 1: violence and different programs and that kind of things. That

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Speaker 1: kind of thing like, how can you do that in

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Speaker 1: good faith?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, there's no doubt that. Look, I share those concerns,

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Speaker 3: and what has transpired since he's been employed in my

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Speaker 3: office that he does travel to remote areas with me.

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Speaker 3: It would be. I can't recall being in any situation

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Speaker 3: where there's been confidential information or policy you discussed. Mister

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Speaker 3: Plumber plays a role of a laaison officer, so he

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Speaker 3: works closely with me and helps bridge the gap between

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Speaker 3: me cultural issues in the community. So that's the role

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Speaker 3: that he plays. But look, I totally understand where the

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Speaker 3: community is coming from. It was a very difficult judgment

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Speaker 3: call that I made, but now that i've to regret it, No,

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Speaker 3: I don't at the moment, But given that there's further information,

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Speaker 3: obviously I need to have a look at that. I

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Speaker 3: need to get to the bottom of that to find

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Speaker 3: out exactly what's happened, clearly what's being reported in the paper.

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Speaker 3: I've asked mister Plumber to consent to a full criminal

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Speaker 3: history release, and what we're going to do is get

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Speaker 3: to the bottom of that because these are very serious

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Speaker 3: matters and I want to get to the bottom of

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Speaker 3: them as soon as I can.

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Speaker 2: Is he going to be sacked? Is he going to

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Speaker 2: be stood down?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that's an issue with all employment processes.

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Speaker 3: I can't preempt what that process might look like, but

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Speaker 3: I've certainly had discussions with the Department this morning. Every

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Speaker 3: employee is entitled to natural justice. There is a process

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Speaker 3: when it comes to employment and they will be followed

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Speaker 3: so we can get to the bottom of it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what kind of process did you go through

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Speaker 1: before actually employing him, because I guess you know, Tenant

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Speaker 1: Creek's a small town, like you would think that you

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Speaker 1: would have been aware of his history. By the sounds

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Speaker 1: of what the Australians reporting, it's extensive. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: googled his name this morning and there appears to be

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Speaker 1: from earlier this month. Everybody appearing at the Tenant Creek

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Speaker 1: local court list in the NT news being reported and look,

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Speaker 1: unless there's two people of the same name, it appears

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Speaker 1: that you know that he was due to appear as

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Speaker 1: early as earlier this month.

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Speaker 3: Is that the case he recently appeared in court for

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Speaker 3: a drink driving matter and that was resolved. I think

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Speaker 3: it was last week or the week before.

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Speaker 2: Goodness me, so drink driving matter as well.

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Speaker 3: Yep, a recent drink driving matter. Again, we've been following

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Speaker 3: processes to deal with that. The information that came forward.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday, Steve, can you see then, how like honestly you

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Speaker 1: must even be thinking to yourself, mate, you conduct yourself

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Speaker 1: at a pretty high standard.

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Speaker 2: I would think. So then when you've got a.

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Speaker 1: Staff member who now you know this like this is happening,

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Speaker 1: and you're then copying flak over over a staff member

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Speaker 1: that you've employed, you must be thinking to yourself, goodness,

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Speaker 1: may should I have done more checks and balances here

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Speaker 1: before employing it?

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Speaker 3: Look, I acted in good faith at the time. I

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Speaker 3: spoke with mister Plumber about it. He declared his matters

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Speaker 3: on the employment form. I had a discussion with him

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Speaker 3: about it. To look in hindsight, yes, we certainly should

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Speaker 3: have done more the situation where at the moment the

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Speaker 3: information came forward to me yesterday and we're dealing with

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Speaker 3: that appropriately at the moment.

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Speaker 2: So should he stand down?

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Speaker 1: I mean really like for you, I'd be thinking, yes, yeah, Look.

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Speaker 3: It's these things came up very quickly yesterday. I've had

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Speaker 3: some preliminary discussions with the department this morning, and I'll

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Speaker 3: have further discussions with the department this morning, and I'm

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Speaker 3: sure that under the process is available, they'll be taking appropriately.

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Speaker 2: So did you do a criminal check before employing here?

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Speaker 2: Why not?

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Speaker 3: There's a form where those declarations were made, those declarations

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Speaker 3: were put on the form. They're the matters that I

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Speaker 3: sat down and spoke with him about. Looking at the

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Speaker 3: processes moving forward. There's an opportunity now to look at

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Speaker 3: what that employment form looks like from a department perspective.

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Speaker 3: For certainly, I'll be speaking to the department about what

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Speaker 3: can be done to tie and up per employment processes

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Speaker 3: moving forward.

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Speaker 1: The NT Minister for Prevention of Domestic Family and Sexual Violence,

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Speaker 1: Kate Warden, has told the Australian newspaper that your position

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Speaker 1: is now totally untenable, Steve.

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Speaker 2: Should you be standing down over there, No.

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Speaker 3: I shouldn't at this stage. What I want to do

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Speaker 3: is get to the bottom of these issues, find out

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Speaker 3: where the system broke down, particularly around those employment practices.

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Speaker 3: I've been made aware of issues that I wasn't aware of.

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Speaker 3: I was aware of two matters and I followed normal process,

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Speaker 3: had those discussions, looked at what the risks were, looked

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Speaker 3: at what occurred, what I was told during those offenses.

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Speaker 3: I decided to give him an opportunity to rehabilitate himself

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Speaker 3: to get back on track. Now that I have further information,

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Speaker 3: it's important that we get to the bottom of that

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Speaker 3: very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Some people are going to be listening this morning questioning

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Speaker 1: your decision making skills on this whole situation, and questioning

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Speaker 1: whether realistically you are up to being the opposition spokesperson

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Speaker 1: for domestic and family violence given your decision making in

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Speaker 1: this process.

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Speaker 2: What do you say to those people?

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Speaker 3: What I say is my decision was made on the

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Speaker 3: information before me. At the time I made a decision

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Speaker 3: based on the information, I took that information at face value.

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Speaker 3: I've lived in Tenant Creek for a long time. I

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Speaker 3: know lots of people there. I took that information at

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Speaker 3: face value. As I said yesterday, more information has come

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Speaker 3: to hand. We'll be getting to the bottom of that

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Speaker 3: and taking appropriate action where necessary.

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Speaker 1: I tell you what it is MESSI and I know

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Speaker 1: that from what I'm seeing on the text line this morning.

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Speaker 1: To put it really bluntly, people are pissed off with

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Speaker 1: the level at which our politicians are conducting themselves at

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Speaker 1: the moment. You know, this is one situation obviously that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about this morning. They are still annoyed at

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Speaker 1: the situation, you know, with Brent Potter's posts on social media.

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Speaker 1: They're still annoyed with Chancey Pake's shares fiasco. I mean, really,

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Speaker 1: shouldn't you all be operating to a higher standard.

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Speaker 3: We certainly should. I agree with it, and I operate

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Speaker 3: to the very highest standard possible. I've always done that.

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Speaker 3: I've always put every effort into doing my job to

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Speaker 3: the very best of my ability ethically, with integrity. What's

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Speaker 3: happened in this occasion is that I've acted on information

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Speaker 3: that was presented to me at the time. I have

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Speaker 3: further information, and I'll be taking appropriate action. And I

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Speaker 3: want to assure listeners that now that we have further information,

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Speaker 3: there will be a process to follow. We need to

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Speaker 3: get hold of a proper, verifiable criminal history so that

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Speaker 3: we can take the necessary Is.

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Speaker 1: That something that's easy enough to do, because I mean

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Speaker 1: even just looking at looking at what's reported in the Australian,

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Speaker 1: but now just learning that he's also appeared in court

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Speaker 1: on a drink driving charge, you know, is it actually

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Speaker 1: going to be possible for you to get that full

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Speaker 1: criminal history?

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Speaker 2: And you know if you weren't able to do it

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Speaker 2: before he was employed.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a process to follow, and you know there's

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Speaker 3: I've already spoken to mister Plumber and he's agreed to

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Speaker 3: consent to that. I've spoken to the department this morning.

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Speaker 3: We'll be following those processes. What we've seen in the media,

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Speaker 3: that's a whole range of issues there. But what we

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Speaker 3: want is a verifiable criminal history in front of us,

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Speaker 3: and we will follow normal employment practices and deal with

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Speaker 3: the matter in an appropriate way.

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Speaker 1: So just to be clear, there is still a possibility

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Speaker 1: that this boy could retain his job.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to speculate on anything at the moment

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Speaker 3: that these are issues that we need to discuss with

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Speaker 3: mister Plumber to say that, you know, to preempt the

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Speaker 3: end of the process. Look, I think when we follow

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Speaker 3: normal processes normally, the outcome is what people would expect.

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Speaker 1: Steve Edgington, the member for barclay Or Position, spokesperson for

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Speaker 1: domestic and family Violence. I really appreciate you joining us

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Speaker 1: in the studio this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie, and good morning to everybody.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.