Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
Speaker 1: Kate Torbert and coming up on today's show, Sammy Robinson
Speaker 1: is the latest influencer to secure her dream home and
Speaker 1: the food talk recipe row but First. Almost a year
Speaker 1: after the short closure of her active wear brand, Ashi
Speaker 1: Biens has revealed the eye watering amount she made of
Speaker 1: her collections first Drop. So if the admission came during
Speaker 1: a recent podcast episode, this isn't the first time that
Speaker 1: we are speaking about content from one of ashe Byn's podcasts,
Speaker 1: and I don't think that it's a coincidence at all.
Speaker 1: I really think that her podcast has taken a new
Speaker 1: direction since it's changed its name and also co host.
Speaker 1: The show is now being produced by Nova, and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if they've seen the success that Listener
Speaker 1: has had with the Kickpod and they've gone we need
Speaker 1: to replicate that, because as soon as Steph Leesmith and
Speaker 1: Laura Henshaw started opening up about their sex lives and
Speaker 1: their business secrets, their podcast went flying up the charts.
Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of those outlandish stories
Speaker 1: are getting attention because they're then featured on news websites
Speaker 1: and that leads to more people discovering the podcast and
Speaker 1: hitting download. And I think for Ashy and her new
Speaker 1: co host Tiana, they thought, let's replicate that we need
Speaker 1: to start opening up, and that sort of shock value
Speaker 1: seems to have been brought into their podcast, and I
Speaker 1: think it also attracts a lot of hate listening because personally,
Speaker 1: I'm not that interested in hearing Ashi Bynes talking about
Speaker 1: manifestation and self improvement, but I do want to hear
Speaker 1: the juicy details about how much her business makes. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of influencers thought that they were the
Speaker 1: draw cards themselves, so they could just talk about any
Speaker 1: issue or concept that interests them. So for ashe, obviously
Speaker 1: she is interested in a bit of that woo woo stuff.
Speaker 1: But then I think they quickly realized, hey, we actually
Speaker 1: need to divulge a bit about our personal lives. I
Speaker 1: mean it turned into influences just answering people's dilemmas and
Speaker 1: not really giving any information about themselves. Well, in this episode,
Speaker 1: they did do what a lot of inflo luancers do
Speaker 1: and they put up a question box for their audience,
Speaker 1: but they asked their audience to send in burning questions
Speaker 1: that they think that Ashi and Tiana would generally avoid answering,
Speaker 1: and they really didn't waste time getting into it with
Speaker 1: Ash's starting the show by answering what is the easiest.
Speaker 2: Cash she's ever made. Let's have a listen to what she.
Speaker 3: Said, influence work, for sure, Although when I first launched anything,
Speaker 3: the first launch is always the biggest. So when I
Speaker 3: first launched active where it was over a million dollars
Speaker 3: and twenty four hours, when I first launched my app,
Speaker 3: it was the same thing. But I feel influencer work
Speaker 3: is the easiest work that you could do. Like, when
Speaker 3: influencers say they've got a hard job, I'm like, they don't.
Speaker 3: It's like, yes, it takes you've got to be creative
Speaker 3: and you've got to be on Like, for sure, it
Speaker 3: still takes brain power, but it's very easy to promote
Speaker 3: a product that you genuinely love. Yeah, so I'd say
Speaker 3: that would be pretty easy.
Speaker 1: At least she's got the self awareness to say that
Speaker 1: influencing isn't a difficult job. It's interesting how she phrased
Speaker 1: it though, saying, oh, when influencers say they've got a
Speaker 1: hard job as if she isn't in that space herself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she seemed to want to distance herself from influencers.
Speaker 1: She is known as being an OG influencer, but I
Speaker 1: suppose she's made her career a lot broader because she
Speaker 1: owned so many different businesses. I think that that's what
Speaker 1: she was trying to establish. Can you imagine, though, making
Speaker 1: one million dollars in just one day would be pretty nice?
Speaker 1: I mean I've always been so curious to know how
Speaker 1: much influencers actually make when they launched their own product,
Speaker 1: or even when they launched something through an existing brand.
Speaker 1: And I feel like a few years ago, we'd always
Speaker 1: see influencers.
Speaker 2: Filming their launch, so you'd see them and you'd see
Speaker 2: how many people are on the website, but you'd never
Speaker 2: actually be told how much they'd make. You always just
Speaker 2: assumed it was a fuck ton.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's always been question marks about how
Speaker 1: much stock influencers actually released to achieve a sellout. I mean,
Speaker 1: I remember back in the day when Kylie Jenner used
Speaker 1: to put her lip kits on sale and it was
Speaker 1: like sold out within thirty seconds, and everyone's like, but
Speaker 1: how many were there? Well, clearly, as she sold a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of active where to make a
Speaker 1: million dollars in twenty four hours, and she backed it
Speaker 1: up when she also launched her app, so she also
Speaker 1: made a subsequent one million dollars in twenty four hours,
Speaker 1: which really shows how huge her influence was at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it appears that influence has waned, though, considering she shut
Speaker 1: down her active wear collection, I was curious to see
Speaker 1: when she actually launched her active wear line and whether
Speaker 1: it was when she was at the height of her fame.
Speaker 1: I would have said she was at the height of
Speaker 1: her fame in twenty seventeen, but I was surprised to
Speaker 1: see she only launched this active wear brand baseline in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: The thing is, though I vividly.
Speaker 1: Remember buying a pair of Coalbalt Blue legans from her
Speaker 1: did You in twenty seventeen, so she must have also
Speaker 1: just had random active wear on her website and it
Speaker 1: wasn't through the actual brand baseline. I didn't have you
Speaker 1: done as an Ashy Baynes fan back in the day.
Speaker 1: I'm I am not an Ashy Baynes fan. I had
Speaker 1: just happened to follow her and I Cobalt Blue is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite colors. I feel like it looks
Speaker 1: really good on blondes, and I'm like, I have to
Speaker 1: have those legans. I didn't feel they were the best
Speaker 1: quality though. I think I wore them once and that
Speaker 1: was it.
Speaker 2: It seems like.
Speaker 1: Ashi Byinnes is a money making machine when it comes
Speaker 1: to social media, because she divulged that the most she's
Speaker 1: been paid for a single social media post is fifteen
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and she said the average she would get would.
Speaker 2: Be around ten grand a post. That is absolutely wild.
Speaker 1: For some reason, all I can think about in this
Speaker 1: moment is if she was making so much money, why
Speaker 1: didn't she.
Speaker 2: Invest in a nice Christmas tree? OJ listeners will know that.
Speaker 1: I think it was a couple of years ago she
Speaker 1: shared this toilet brush looking Christmas tree and it had
Speaker 1: the saddest looking tinsel.
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. It still haunts me to this day.
Speaker 1: Well, that's just a bousome Hill sponsorship deal waiting to happen,
Speaker 1: isn't it. But why does she just pay for her
Speaker 1: own She's making ten k off all these posts, well
Speaker 1: fifteen k. Evidently people have different priorities except but she
Speaker 1: was also talking about like gifting this tree to someone else.
Speaker 1: But that's just one of the stories of ashi Bynes
Speaker 1: that really sticks with me. Well, the confessions didn't stop
Speaker 1: there for Ashiy Bynes, because she also revealed on her
Speaker 1: podcast that when she was eighteen, she used to make
Speaker 1: ten to twenty grand a week working as a quote
Speaker 1: skimpy barmaid.
Speaker 2: Yeah. This surprised me.
Speaker 1: She said that she used to carry around a lot
Speaker 1: of shame about this job and she was embarrassed to
Speaker 1: open up about it until now. And she said it
Speaker 1: was during a time in her life when she'd just
Speaker 1: broken up with her boyfriend and she spent six months
Speaker 1: in wa making serious bank.
Speaker 2: Here's some of what she said.
Speaker 3: The man over there just tipped like crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was never a topless waiter yeah, or topless bar girl.
Speaker 3: There was the pub that I worked out, and then
Speaker 3: there was one next to it with the topless girls
Speaker 3: were I never did that. I just didn't have the
Speaker 3: confidence too. But yeah, it was fun. It was a
Speaker 3: cool time in my life. Fun different be at at
Speaker 3: home and make bank, make bank. Yeah, and it's the holidays.
Speaker 2: Took my friends on holidays, paid off some bills.
Speaker 1: I sensed that she wanted to make it really clear
Speaker 1: that she wasn't actually a topless waiter. I feel like
Speaker 1: she knew that the media would quickly run with that
Speaker 1: as a headline, and I think she was trying to
Speaker 1: separate herself from other women working in the industry, which
Speaker 1: it almost felt a bit uncomfortable to listen to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: particularly when she made such a big that when she
Speaker 1: was working as a bar maide, she actually wore more
Speaker 1: clothes than other girls working at nightclubs. Yeah, she referenced
Speaker 1: Bedroom nightclub, which again I'm not from the Gold Coast.
Speaker 1: I wonder if some of our listeners have some memories
Speaker 1: of that nightclub. But she said a lot of the
Speaker 1: women there would get around in lingerie and just underwear.
Speaker 2: But again, I felt like.
Speaker 1: It was just weird to be like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: but I didn't do that, Like I wasn't doing that.
Speaker 1: And she would say, oh, and I built a good
Speaker 1: rapport with the men working there. We were more mates
Speaker 1: than anything else. I mean, again, I suppose she did
Speaker 1: reference that she felt shame around the role, so maybe
Speaker 1: she was carrying that a bit into the segment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does sound like that now, as she did speak
Speaker 1: about how dangerous this job was so She said that
Speaker 1: she was in a really lucky position because she had
Speaker 1: male friends who would drop her to and from work. However,
Speaker 1: her coworkers weren't as lucky. They had to hang out
Speaker 1: at the bar or walk home alone.
Speaker 2: That's really scary, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I love this detail of the story though, because, as
Speaker 1: she said, as part of her job she had to
Speaker 1: go by a different name. So the name she got
Speaker 1: given was Pam. And she said, every now and then,
Speaker 1: when she puts up a Q and a box, someone
Speaker 1: will come out of the woodwork and say, how are
Speaker 1: you going, Pam Oh, And she said she just can't
Speaker 1: hide from it, which is maybe why she's decided to
Speaker 1: open it up about it in her own terms. I
Speaker 1: wonder if she was worried that someone would go to the.
Speaker 2: Media about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like maybe someone was threatening to leak
Speaker 1: this to the media, not that it's even a very
Speaker 1: big deal at all. I was just thinking the whole time, Oh, okay,
Speaker 1: so this is like the only fans of them. I
Speaker 1: also potentially think that as she felt like now was
Speaker 1: a good time to open up about it, because we've
Speaker 1: really evolved as a society.
Speaker 2: I don't think that.
Speaker 1: There would have been nearly as much judgment about this
Speaker 1: story as there would have been five ten years ago.
Speaker 1: Now it was only a couple of weeks ago so
Speaker 1: that we were talking about how Ashi Bynes had launched
Speaker 1: her fragrances into New Zealand and essentially offended the whole
Speaker 1: country by saying they smelt so last week her brand
Speaker 1: Hideaway launched a new campaign and this time they released
Speaker 1: an all natural coconut loop.
Speaker 3: Well we've just launched something new.
Speaker 2: So what is it, exactly?
Speaker 3: You're asking? Well, is natural lubricant?
Speaker 5: Why?
Speaker 3: Because I could not find any in Australia that was clean,
Speaker 3: smell good, actually worked and didn't cost me an arm
Speaker 3: in a leg, I was paying over one hundred dollars
Speaker 3: to order one from the USA because there was nothing
Speaker 3: here in Australia. I also heard some absolute horror stories
Speaker 3: where other lubricants that were not natural and clean caused irritation,
Speaker 3: reactions and burning no thank you. So after quickly realizing
Speaker 3: I wasn't alone and wanting a nice natural product to
Speaker 3: use in the bedroom, I said to Steve, let's create
Speaker 3: it and we did the one hundred percent natural it's
Speaker 3: coconut based, no paraban Oasilicon, No nasties under forty dollars
Speaker 3: for a tube of one hundred and fifty mils, keep
Speaker 3: packaging easier to order online, so no more awkward supermarket checkout.
Speaker 1: Tell me you're an influencer without telling me you're an influencer.
Speaker 1: A one hundred dollars on a bottle of loop?
Speaker 2: What is it going on?
Speaker 1: Because you've on this cost of living crisis? I mean,
Speaker 1: have I been living under a rock? Or is that extreme?
Speaker 1: Like I've never heard anyone spending one hundred dollars on
Speaker 1: I get that she's saying it's all natural and it's fancy.
Speaker 2: Et cetera.
Speaker 1: But most people just going down to Woolies and buying
Speaker 1: the ten dollars sheet off the aisle.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: I suppose it's quite a personal thing that people don't
Speaker 1: generally talk about. So this story actually does remind me
Speaker 1: of a guy that one of our friends was dating.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to give too many details because
Speaker 1: I don't want to get in trouble, but he definitely
Speaker 1: wasn't dropping one hundred dollars on Loube because he liked
Speaker 1: to keep a jar of coconut oil next to his bed,
Speaker 1: so on his bedside table.
Speaker 2: He was keeping it natural and he would spoon a
Speaker 2: little bit out and use it instead.
Speaker 1: Look, I don't know if she'd be putting that out there,
Speaker 1: because I don't know if that's particularly a safe method.
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that anyone should be doing this. That's
Speaker 1: horribly in my mind. Can you imagine the ick of
Speaker 1: hearing the jar being unscrewed and the.
Speaker 2: Screening of the spoon. Maybe he should just invest in
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars as she buys lube.
Speaker 1: I mean, whenever I'm cooking with coconut oil, it's really
Speaker 1: actually hard to get out of the container, like sometimes
Speaker 1: you need a warm spoon, or.
Speaker 2: Because it's hard. The coconut oil is usually hard.
Speaker 1: I remember in my early twenties hearing a story about
Speaker 1: a guy who used to refuse to buy lu because
Speaker 1: he didn't want to invest in it, so he would
Speaker 1: use olive oil. Oh my god, SOAVI, are you're giving
Speaker 1: some horror stories away. I feel like this is very
Speaker 1: low brow for our podcast. Maybe this is why there's
Speaker 1: some good natural products on the market now, because there's
Speaker 1: so many people who had bad experiences with olive oil.
Speaker 2: And coconut oil.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're doing it for the natural reasons.
Speaker 1: It sounds like laziness to me.
Speaker 2: No, what I'm.
Speaker 1: Saying that now, there's probably women who were like demanding
Speaker 1: all natural products because they've had some negative reaction or
Speaker 1: irritation to stuff that they shouldn't be using.
Speaker 2: Maybe Ashy Biens is doing God's work.
Speaker 1: Here are outside Brookies bakehouse.
Speaker 2: It is just opening this morning. We're working on.
Speaker 1: This story today regarding the allegations of plagiarism against a
Speaker 1: Brookie made by Nagi from recipe Tin to Eat. Two
Speaker 1: of Australia's most popular food creators are engaged in a
Speaker 1: plagiarism row over dessert recipes. Nagi Mahashi has a q
Speaker 1: Brooke Bellamy of plagiarizing two of her recipes in her
Speaker 1: best selling cookbook Bait with Brookie. Brooke denies the claim,
Speaker 1: saying all the recipes in.
Speaker 2: Her cookbook are her own.
Speaker 1: Okay, before we get into it, can you get us
Speaker 1: up to speed with the main players of this story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So this story is massive because these two food creators
Speaker 1: are big deals in the Australian food industry. You've got Nagi,
Speaker 1: who is one of Australia's most beloved and influential home cooks.
Speaker 1: She is the founder of highly successful food blog recipe
Speaker 1: tin Eats. I'm a regular visitor to the blog.
Speaker 2: Nearly all of.
Speaker 1: My good recipes come from Nagi, and I think what
Speaker 1: really sets her recipes apart is that they're easy enough
Speaker 1: to cook on a weeknight, but they taste amazing and
Speaker 1: they're pretty cost effective. I'm just obsessed with her dog, Dozer.
Speaker 1: He's a senior Golden Retriever. He is adorable, He's got
Speaker 1: the cutest white face. He's had a couple of health problems,
Speaker 1: and it's really him who's won me over.
Speaker 2: They're such a sweet duo together.
Speaker 1: Every one of her Instagram stories that features Dozer I
Speaker 1: put a little love on on now. Her story is
Speaker 1: a really an vpirational one too, because she gave up
Speaker 1: her job in corporate finance in twenty fourteen to pursue
Speaker 1: her passion with food, and since then her blog has
Speaker 1: amassed over five hundred million views. She's attracted almost two
Speaker 1: million social media followers and released two best selling cookbooks.
Speaker 1: To top it off, In twenty twenty, Nagi founded a
Speaker 1: not for profit food bank called recipe Tin Meals that
Speaker 1: donates nearly one hundred thousand meals to vulnerable people in Sydney.
Speaker 1: So she is an incredible woman.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: As for brook Bellamy, she launched Brookies Bakehouse in Brisbane
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two and the bakery was an instant
Speaker 1: success thanks to her massive presence on TikTok. So she
Speaker 1: has two million TikTok followers and one million on Instagram
Speaker 1: and most days there is a massive lineup just to
Speaker 1: get into her bakery.
Speaker 2: And it got to the point where brook began having.
Speaker 1: To ship cookies and cakes Australia wide and even internationally
Speaker 1: because the demand was so huge. She's even opened up
Speaker 1: pop up stores in Abu Dhabi and also Dubai. And
Speaker 1: in October last year she published a cookbook called Bake
Speaker 1: with Brookie and it has been incredibly successful up until
Speaker 1: this point. She sold over ninety two thousand copies and
Speaker 1: she has generated a predicted four point six million dollars
Speaker 1: in sales. Now we need to talk about the allegations.
Speaker 1: So on Tuesday, Nagi announced on her website that she
Speaker 1: had made copyright infringement allegations against Penguin Random House Australia.
Speaker 1: She wrote, this is a story about a multimillion dollar
Speaker 1: cookbook by a social media influencer, published by a blue
Speaker 1: chip publisher, featuring numerous recipes that, in my opinion, are plagiarized.
Speaker 1: Given the detailed and extensive word for words similarities to
Speaker 1: mine and those of other authors. To me, the similarities
Speaker 1: between the recipes in question are far too specific in
Speaker 1: detailed to be dismissed as coincidence. Penguin has denied the allegations.
Speaker 1: I have received no response from book Bellamy, the author.
Speaker 1: Now the recipes in question are a caramel slice and
Speaker 1: a buck LeVar Nagi went on to share screenshots of
Speaker 1: the recipes side by to show the similarities.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Within hours, Brook responded to the allegations, denying that she
Speaker 1: plagiarized any recipes in her cookbook. She claimed that she'd
Speaker 1: been selling caramel slices commercially since twenty sixteen. She wrote,
Speaker 1: on March twenty twenty, recipe tin Eats published a recipe
Speaker 1: for caramel slice. It uses the same ingredients as my recipe,
Speaker 1: which I have been making and selling since four years prior.
Speaker 2: Now as a form of a receipt.
Speaker 1: She shared a photo of her pastry case in the
Speaker 1: bakery and circled the caramel slice on a plate. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't quite understand how the photo proves she used
Speaker 1: a particular recipe. God, does anyone else feel like caramel slice? Though?
Speaker 2: Just like I feel like I've gotta try this recipe out.
Speaker 1: I mean. Brookie also claimed that she offered to remove
Speaker 1: both the caramel slice and Bucclovar recipe from future prints
Speaker 1: of her book to prevent further aggravation. Now, another popular
Speaker 1: baking identity has come out of the woodwork to also
Speaker 1: make claims against brook So. Sally McKenny from Sally's Baking
Speaker 1: Addiction in the US alleged that Brooks vanilla cake recipe
Speaker 1: also closely resembles her own. Nagi also has since accused
Speaker 1: brook of copying the late Bill Granger's Portuguese tart recipe. Again,
Speaker 1: this segment is making me very hungry. But I want
Speaker 1: to pose the big question to you, because this is
Speaker 1: what I've been thinking about all week in terms of
Speaker 1: this story. Is it possible to plagiarize a recipe? Because
Speaker 1: it's a really interesting discussion. Where is the line between
Speaker 1: inspiration and plagiarism, particularly when it comes to baking sweet
Speaker 1: goods because there's such a formula you need to follow.
Speaker 1: It's not like a savory recipe where you can chuck
Speaker 1: in a bit of this and a bit of that
Speaker 1: and it'll work out. Yeah. And I think there was
Speaker 1: a lot of confusion, particularly because everyone was focused on
Speaker 1: the caramel slice recipe, and a caramel slice is a
Speaker 1: very traditional recipe. There's not a lot of different ways
Speaker 1: you can make it, so a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: understand how a recipe for caramel slice can be copied.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's a very basic recipe, isn't it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the thing is those people clearly don't follow Nagi
Speaker 1: on social media because she often shares the long process
Speaker 1: that she goes to develop a recipe. And yes, a
Speaker 1: caramel slice recipe doesn't differ much, but you can perfect
Speaker 1: it and you can test different ratios out and that's
Speaker 1: what she does. So she's not saying that she invented
Speaker 1: the recipe, but she's saying that she's extensively tested different
Speaker 1: versions until she's come up with one that's worked best
Speaker 1: for her.
Speaker 2: It's definitely very.
Speaker 1: Complex, and I think unless you're a chef and know
Speaker 1: what goes into developing a recipe, you probably don't fully
Speaker 1: understand it. Legal experts have weighed in saying that yes,
Speaker 1: it is possible to plagiarize a recipe, but recipe copyright
Speaker 1: cases are very complex.
Speaker 2: So you can't copyright the concept of.
Speaker 1: Say a caramel slice, but once you've written down that recipe,
Speaker 1: that becomes a copyright literary work.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, in Australia, copyright law protects the unique expression of
Speaker 1: a recipe, which means the specific wording, instructions, and presentation. However,
Speaker 1: the underlying list of ingredients or general method is not
Speaker 1: protected by law. Therefore, copying the exact text or unique
Speaker 1: elements of a recipe without permission can constitute copyright infringement.
Speaker 2: We reckon.
Speaker 1: That's why sometimes we see recipes where people have thrown
Speaker 1: in some.
Speaker 2: Really random ingredients.
Speaker 1: You're like wow, like you know that doesn't really belong
Speaker 1: in there, but they've tried to make it different.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: I think it's also around the way you present the recipe.
Speaker 1: So a lot of cookbook authors will tell a really
Speaker 1: special story about how they came to create the recipe
Speaker 1: or you know, the inspiration behind it. And in Brookie's Cookbook,
Speaker 1: we're not seeing that it's a very basic recipe or here,
Speaker 1: this is how I made it. The steps are simple,
Speaker 1: so there's not really that art of storytelling within it
Speaker 1: as well. It's quite interesting and I think something that
Speaker 1: seemed to catch Brooke out a little bit was that
Speaker 1: there was a mistake in Nagi's Blacklovar recipe which is
Speaker 1: then mirrored in Brooks recipe.
Speaker 2: Which is a bit awkward.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that was a little bit of a smoking
Speaker 1: gun for some people.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: While the whole plagiarism recipe situation is complex from a
Speaker 1: copyright perspective, when it comes to how the food writing
Speaker 1: industry views it, it's quite different because from an ethical stance,
Speaker 1: closely mimicking someone's recipe is considered plagiary.
Speaker 2: It's very frowned upon, isn't it.
Speaker 1: And again that is from an ethical stance, not so
Speaker 1: much illegal stance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the best practice is to.
Speaker 1: Credit the original source, and that's what Nagi wanted. She
Speaker 1: said that she would have given Brook her permission and
Speaker 1: blessing to use the recipe if she just asked. And
Speaker 1: I feel like the food community in Australia is probably
Speaker 1: quite a tight knit one that seems like a very
Speaker 1: wholesome community. Yeah. I feel like again, if a mission
Speaker 1: was sought, she would have just given it. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think while a lot has been said about this case,
Speaker 1: one thing that I haven't seen discussed is this hierarchy
Speaker 1: in the food creator space. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of the vitriol aimed at Brook has to do with
Speaker 1: the fact that people don't think she's got baking credentials.
Speaker 1: She had a meteoric rise into the food industry from
Speaker 1: TikTok and I remember her content popping up on my
Speaker 1: TikTok for you Paid and being absolutely amazed at how
Speaker 1: she had managed to build this incredible business from just
Speaker 1: sharing day in the life blogs.
Speaker 2: Now I only just.
Speaker 1: Discovered since the plagiarism scandal broke that Brook was a
Speaker 1: highly successful travel blogger before opening her bakery. So she
Speaker 1: was known by her maiden named Brook Starwood, and she
Speaker 1: started up a travel blog called World of Wonderlus in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. This blog was absolutely massive. She had around
Speaker 1: six million readers a year and one point two million
Speaker 1: social media followers from it. And it was actually during
Speaker 1: her travels that she developed her love for food and
Speaker 1: for baking, which has then inspired her career in food
Speaker 1: thus far. Yeah, and before Brookie's bake House, she opened
Speaker 1: her first bakery in Tasmania in twenty sixteen, called Charlie's
Speaker 1: Dessert House. Now, it was in twenty twenty when the
Speaker 1: pandemic hit that Brooke found herself at this crossroad when
Speaker 1: international travel was halted, and that's when she turned her
Speaker 1: attention to baking and eventually opened Brookies bake House in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. It is interesting to consider how many
Speaker 1: of Brook's travel audience converted over to her baking content,
Speaker 1: because her Instagram account is still live for her wonder
Speaker 1: last one and she actually links to Brookies Bakehouse over there.
Speaker 1: I suppose travel and food sort of go hand in hand,
Speaker 1: don't they, Because a lot of the time travel bloggers
Speaker 1: will show you a country's cuisine. It's very aspirational content,
Speaker 1: so I can see how they go quite nicely together. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it definitely makes sense. And I think it is this
Speaker 1: influencer status that Brooke had before launching Brookies Bakehouse that
Speaker 1: has got people questioning is she a legitimate baker?
Speaker 2: Is this just another business venture for her?
Speaker 1: I feel like those who are questioning it are definitely
Speaker 1: people in the food industry and who I've been working
Speaker 1: in the food industry for decades, and they feel a
Speaker 1: little bit insecure about the rise of these TikTok content
Speaker 1: creators because, I mean, all over my algorithm at the moment,
Speaker 1: I'm seeing these really quick, fast recipes that are easy
Speaker 1: to make, and there isn't really a lot of crediting
Speaker 1: going on. And people are building huge careers off being
Speaker 1: really creative in the way that they film something. But
Speaker 1: maybe those people don't actually have the technical skills in
Speaker 1: building a recipe. But isn't this just how the cooking
Speaker 1: landscape has progressed. I mean, we originally had cookbook authors,
Speaker 1: now we have bloggers, and now we have got TikTok creators.
Speaker 1: There's always been snobbery around the next iteration, is that
Speaker 1: just what we're seeing here? It definitely is the way forward,
Speaker 1: and it's the way that I personally build up recipes
Speaker 1: for dinner.
Speaker 2: I'll always save something that looks quick and easy.
Speaker 1: But I think the frustration is coming from food creators
Speaker 1: who have worked in the industry for decades and they've
Speaker 1: tested and trialed these recipes for people to then seemingly
Speaker 1: steal them and with creators like Nagi.
Speaker 2: She's all about.
Speaker 1: Building a story, and their work is beautiful, like their
Speaker 1: works of art, what they create about these particular recipes
Speaker 1: and the personal stories that they bring into them. And
Speaker 1: I think that there's some frustration that maybe there's a
Speaker 1: section of people who just want to be TikTok famous,
Speaker 1: so they're going to start ripping off people's recipes and
Speaker 1: they're not really into food themselves. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: there's this skepticism around someone like Brook who has had
Speaker 1: six in the travel industry, being a travel influencer, and
Speaker 1: then people are probably like, oh, hang on, and she
Speaker 1: just moved into the baking industry because that was the
Speaker 1: next thing that was popular on TikTok. And there is
Speaker 1: a flattening of this recipe development on TikTok. People aren't
Speaker 1: crediting different creators. So yeah, I can see why there
Speaker 1: is a little bit of a battle between the old
Speaker 1: school and the new school. Another point of contention has
Speaker 1: been around Brooks supposed wealth. So Brook is married to
Speaker 1: landscape architect Justice Bellamy and they have a young daughter
Speaker 1: together called Collette. Wait, so his name is Justice, Yes,
Speaker 1: sounds like a judge. Yeah, well that's his first name.
Speaker 1: His other brothers and sisters have quite unique names too.
Speaker 1: I can tell from the name Justice that he is
Speaker 1: philsy Rich. Yeah, there's been this chatter online that Justice
Speaker 1: is a billionaire thanks to his family founding Bellamy Organix.
Speaker 1: So Bellamy Organic's actually started out as a formula company
Speaker 1: in Tasmania. People are saying he funded Brooks Bakeries and
Speaker 1: she's had this.
Speaker 2: Leg up in the industry.
Speaker 1: Now. While it is true that Justine does, his parents
Speaker 1: originally founded Bellamy Organics. They sold it in two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven to Tasmania Pure Foods and at the time
Speaker 1: the company wasn't quite breaking even and they had three employees.
Speaker 1: Since then, the company changed its name to Bellamy Australia
Speaker 1: and in twenty nineteen was acquired by a Chinese company
Speaker 1: for one point five billion dollars. So I'm sure that
Speaker 1: Justice's family made good money out of the company in
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, but nowhere near a billion dollars.
Speaker 2: I kind of feel like it's irrelevant.
Speaker 1: Even if she did get a leg up, she's still
Speaker 1: built her own successful social media career and that's how
Speaker 1: she's generated interest in her food. Yes, obviously it helps
Speaker 1: to be given money to open a bakery, but she
Speaker 1: wouldn't be having lines out the door if it wasn't
Speaker 1: for her excellent marketing. Yet, it seems like since this
Speaker 1: story has hit the media, people are really focusing on
Speaker 1: the money involved, because obviously it's been touted as this
Speaker 1: four point six million dollar cookbook, and people are pointing
Speaker 1: out that Brooke purchased a three point six million dollar
Speaker 1: home off the back of the success of the And
Speaker 1: I think it's also because Nagi is viewed as Australia's sweetheart,
Speaker 1: so anyone who comes up against her it's very difficult
Speaker 1: for them. That's why I was surprised that Nagi actually
Speaker 1: came out with these allegations because it is very off
Speaker 1: brand for her. It sounds like this story has been
Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes for about six months now,
Speaker 1: so it's not like Brooke was blindsided when Nagi released
Speaker 1: her statement. It sounds like she did give her some
Speaker 1: time to come back at her before going public with it.
Speaker 1: We need to remember that this is a business issue,
Speaker 1: so Nagi last week urged her follow us to stop
Speaker 1: trolling Brook and said, you've got to remember this is
Speaker 1: my business. Having an issue with Penguin. It's not an
Speaker 1: issue directly with brook Yes, she is involved, let's throw
Speaker 1: it more of what she said.
Speaker 5: You know, share your opinions, have heated debates. Support Brookie,
Speaker 5: support me, disagree with both of us, think we're pathetic,
Speaker 5: whatever you want, but just keep it respectful, no trolling,
Speaker 5: no hate comments. Fundamentally, at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: we're talking recipes and this is a business dispute. You know,
Speaker 5: these are legal allegations that I've made against Penguin. A
Speaker 5: corporate allegation is made by my company. So it just
Speaker 5: we've got to be respectful about this. You know, it's
Speaker 5: the recipe, tim Way.
Speaker 1: I think this just really shows what an amazing person
Speaker 1: Nagi is, and people do need to understand that this
Speaker 1: is a commercial dispute between businesses, not women. The sad
Speaker 1: thing is, though, whenever women are involved in a conflict
Speaker 1: like this, the media turn it into a bit of
Speaker 1: a catfight and say that they're facing off against each other.
Speaker 2: They don't make it into a business dispute. They tend
Speaker 2: to make it very personal.
Speaker 1: I was sitting all over my TikTok on the day
Speaker 1: that Naggi made her allegations. People sharing these hilarious videos
Speaker 1: showing their two cookbooks facing off on the bookshelf, being like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is all with it.
Speaker 2: The next day each other, well came up.
Speaker 1: We're playing into it the other day when I was
Speaker 1: there because at the checkout they had the two cookbooks there,
Speaker 1: like they're obviously like, well, everyone's talking about these, let's
Speaker 1: place them front and center. What makes this even more
Speaker 1: awkward is that Nagi and Brook are set to appear
Speaker 1: this week at an Australian Book Industry Awards in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: So both of their cookbooks have been shortlisted in the
Speaker 1: same category. So I wonder if someone is just not
Speaker 1: going to turn up. Yeah, I think in this instance,
Speaker 1: Brook may be a no show. It's a hard one
Speaker 1: because then if she doesn't show up, it almost looks
Speaker 1: like she's saying she has done the wrong thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If I was their PR managers, I'd say, hey, ladies,
Speaker 1: both turn up and be on the red carpet together
Speaker 1: showing some form of solidarity and say this is a
Speaker 1: business dispute, it's not personal or I mean, not even
Speaker 1: turn up on the red carpet together, but just look civil,
Speaker 1: maybe shake hands or something.
Speaker 4: I was not expecting it It all happened within the
Speaker 4: space of like forty eight hours, sold mine and bought
Speaker 4: another one.
Speaker 1: Sammy Robinson has made a return to YouTube to announce
Speaker 1: she's officially a homeowner. The one Mile founder, who lives
Speaker 1: in Sydney, revealed she purchased a dream home over the
Speaker 1: Easter Long weekend. Yeah, it's been a bit of a
Speaker 1: whirlwind for Sammy because she bought her new home just
Speaker 1: two days after selling her apartment. It all happened so quickly.
Speaker 1: So Sammy said that while she has been doing her
Speaker 1: research and looking at property online for about a year,
Speaker 1: she hadn't actually attended an open inspection until she sold
Speaker 1: her apartment.
Speaker 2: Well that's living life on the edge, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So as soon as the paperwork for her apartment
Speaker 1: was done, Sammy made a short list of twenty properties
Speaker 1: that she wanted to check out that weekend.
Speaker 2: So she went with her mum and looked at as
Speaker 2: many as.
Speaker 1: They could, and she instantly fell in love with a
Speaker 1: property and basically the real estate agent said to her,
Speaker 1: if you put in an offer today.
Speaker 2: You'll be in with a really good chance. So this
Speaker 2: is day one of looking at properties. I think that's
Speaker 2: what happens, though.
Speaker 1: When you're looking for a house, you don't realize how
Speaker 1: quick you have to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, Sammy said that she loved this house so much
Speaker 1: that she went to her solicitor straight away. She spent
Speaker 1: four hours there going over the contract and going back
Speaker 1: and forth with the current owners. She put in an
Speaker 1: offer that afternoon. By Sunday night, she got a call
Speaker 1: saying that the offer had been accepted.
Speaker 2: Such have been a good offer. It all happened in
Speaker 2: the space of forty eight hours. Here's how she reacted.
Speaker 4: I can't even remember exciting.
Speaker 3: What's just happened this weekend?
Speaker 4: Like, I have no words.
Speaker 2: We just got accepted.
Speaker 5: Done with horse.
Speaker 2: You got a backyard?
Speaker 4: Now, oh my god, you got a backyard.
Speaker 2: Have you been working hard?
Speaker 4: Have you been working so high?
Speaker 1: That was Sammy telling her dogs that they're going to
Speaker 1: be getting a backyard, which is a bit of a
Speaker 1: social media trend at the moment. I've seen people saying
Speaker 1: that they're only working hard in order to secure.
Speaker 2: Their dogs a backyard.
Speaker 1: She also dropped that her dogs are going to be
Speaker 1: water baby. So I'm guessing this house is neither water
Speaker 1: or has a pool, and it must be pretty big
Speaker 1: because her roommate Holly is going to continue living with
Speaker 1: her and her sister is going to move in, so
Speaker 1: I would be predicting that this would have quite a
Speaker 1: number of bedrooms.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean she must be doing well with one
Speaker 1: mile just to be dropping money so quickly on a house. Well,
Speaker 1: particularly because she has described this as being her dream house.
Speaker 2: Let's have a listen to what she said.
Speaker 4: It's like my ddream house. It makes me really emotional,
Speaker 4: and I feel like I haven't had a chance to
Speaker 4: like let it digest and manifested this place specifically, like
Speaker 4: this was everything that was on my list. This place
Speaker 4: I will be out for quite a while and I
Speaker 4: want to make it perfect and I want to I'm
Speaker 4: just after doing my store renaults and sort of the
Speaker 4: fit out and the design and the interior design aspect
Speaker 4: of that. I feel like I've developed such a newfound
Speaker 4: passion for that or interest in that.
Speaker 2: This must be a pretty epic house.
Speaker 1: If she is saying that this is her dream home,
Speaker 1: because she has lived in some pretty incredible houses with
Speaker 1: her parents. I mean her parents' house had a view
Speaker 1: of the Sydney Harbor Bridge. She's also had some incredible
Speaker 1: holiday houses near the water. I always remember when I
Speaker 1: first started following her. Every year Year's she would have
Speaker 1: this incredible photo of her and her boyfriend Nick at
Speaker 1: the time, making out when the clock struck midnight and
Speaker 1: the fireworks were going off and you could see the
Speaker 1: Sydney Harbor Ridge in the background, And I always thought,
Speaker 1: who is the poor mug start taking this photo?
Speaker 2: A perfect influencer backdrop.
Speaker 4: There.
Speaker 1: One thing that really stood out to me when I
Speaker 1: was watching this vlog was just how grateful Sammy was
Speaker 1: to her audience. So she said that she was eternally
Speaker 1: grateful for her followers and she would never be able
Speaker 1: to live this life without them, and she's been able
Speaker 1: to transition from YouTube to a successful business owner because
Speaker 1: of the support from them. She's a real class at
Speaker 1: People will know that she is a favorite of mine.
Speaker 1: But it just was very genuine. It didn't feel like
Speaker 1: she was just ticking a box. Because I do feel
Speaker 1: like there is a bit of a formula. If you're
Speaker 1: an influencer and you've bought a house, you must show
Speaker 1: that you were grateful to your audience. Even though it's
Speaker 1: quite clear that Sammy has worked very hard building her business,
Speaker 1: but she knows without her audience, no one would be
Speaker 1: buying the products. It's interesting to how much she must
Speaker 1: be making from one mile because we spoke about earlier
Speaker 1: in the show about Ashy Bynes and how she made
Speaker 1: a million dollars in the first twenty four hours of
Speaker 1: her active wear drop to think that Sammy has two
Speaker 1: stores in Sydney to retail stores.
Speaker 2: Well, she's just set to open the second one in Paddington. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Plus obviously her online e commerce website she must be
Speaker 1: doing so well. Yeah, and there's been a lot of
Speaker 1: talk about her broadening her horizons to the US. She's
Speaker 1: done a lot of shoots over there.
Speaker 2: I think they did.
Speaker 1: Something with Kendall Jenna so, no, it actually wasn't Kendall Jenna.
Speaker 1: It was just another model called Kendall.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: I think it was off the back of Kendall wearing
Speaker 1: one of the items of clothing. And I really played
Speaker 1: on it they were shooting with Kendall.
Speaker 2: Well, I bought it.
Speaker 1: Touching on Sammy's store that she's set to open in Paddington.
Speaker 1: I love it because she's talking about having a signature sandwich.
Speaker 2: At the store. Oh, I feel like sandwiches are all
Speaker 2: the rage. Yes they are. They're all over my TikTok
Speaker 2: at the moment.
Speaker 1: And the more ingredients the better, it seems.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There is an.
Speaker 1: Incredible store in up Lad called Dante's, which I have
Speaker 1: to say make the best sandwiches.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you were.
Speaker 1: Raving about them the other day. I need to go there.
Speaker 1: Apparently it's the what is it, the tuna melt. That's
Speaker 1: really the tuna mel is incredible. I'm not really a
Speaker 1: fan of tuna, but this is next level. If you
Speaker 1: had a signature sandwich, what would be in it? I,
Speaker 1: being vegetarian, obviously eat a little bit of fish, pescatarian.
Speaker 1: I would just love a sandwich bursting with salad, so carrot, beech, root, cheese,
Speaker 1: maybe a bit of feather in there, avocado, capsicumque like
Speaker 1: just any vegetable you can think of a mayonnaise. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not very injured, pep salm, pepper. Yeah, and on
Speaker 1: a sour dough. It has to be on a sour dough.
Speaker 1: Sour dough that's hard to bite into as a sous
Speaker 1: sour dough. Okay, Well, on that note, it is lunchtime
Speaker 1: at Outspoken HQ. You can probably tell that We're absolutely starving,
Speaker 1: so we will leave things there for today.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us for this episode.
Speaker 2: If you have enjoyed it, could you please make sure
Speaker 2: you are subscribed on Apple podcast and also.
Speaker 1: Spotify and leave us a fire start review and rating.
Speaker 1: I also love seeing where you're listening from, whether it's
Speaker 1: on your hot girl walk or whatever you're doing. This
Speaker 1: episode was recorded on the traditional land of the Ghana
Speaker 1: people of the Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to elders
Speaker 1: past and present,