WEBVTT - People Pleasers Anonymous! Better Boundaries with Terri Cole 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.800 Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:06.520 were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:07.600 past and present. 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.399 Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:24.360 recorded on Drug wallamut Land. Hi guys, and welcome back 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.799 to another episode of Life on Cut. I'm Laura and 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:31.040 I'm Brittany, and we have such a freaking good and 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:34.040 also very important episode for you guys. Today we are 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:38.400 interviewing the one and only Terry Cole. Now, if you 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:40.800 don't know who Terry Cole is, she is a psychotherapist 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:42.680 based out of New York. We've had the privilege of 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.520 interviewing her once before and on that episode we spoke 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.720 all around cheating and can you overcome cheating in a 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.000 relationship the effects that cheating can have on a relationship. Basically, 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.920 we did cheating from the inside out on that episode 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.360 and it was freakin' amazing. But what we're talking about 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.400 on today's episode is Terry Cole's speciality. It is the 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.920 thing that she has written multiple books on. One of 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.720 them was a best selling book called Boundary Boss, and 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:10.080 that is dinging. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.200 We are talking about boundaries. 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.080 The reason why I think this is so important is 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.199 because boundaries is the benchmark, the cornerstone of self help. 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.759 It's what we speak about all the time. But often 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.120 sometimes boundaries can come across as a little bit woo 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.080 woo in sense of how does one set boundaries? What 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:29.880 do boundaries actually look like in a relationship? Because it's 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.280 so easy to talk about them as a construct, it's 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.840 very very challenging to implement and set boundaries in your relationships. 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.640 And often we speak about boundaries as being essential to 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.320 romantic relationships, but we're covering so much more in this episode. 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.320 I think a really important thing to point out is 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:51.600 speaking about boundaries between parents and their children, because we 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.160 do romanticize this idea that you should be best friends 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.920 with your children instead of having that parental relationship. But 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.480 Terry has some pretty strong feelings about that. I think 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.400 is really important because I hadn't really heard it from 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:03.400 that perspective before. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:05.320 Another thing that I really loved about this chat is 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.000 that we also cover disordered boundaries, what they look like, 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.760 and codependency and how those true things relate to each other. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.200 There's so much in this and if you're somebody who 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.240 feels as though you need to set better boundaries in 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.280 your relationships and with the people closest to you. 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.040 This episode is for you, Terry. Welcome back to Life 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:22.679 on card. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.040 Why thanks for having you, guys, I'm so sacked to 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:25.440 be back. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.200 Talk us through the basics. 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.800 What is a boundary and why are they important in relationships? 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:32.880 So I want you to think about your boundaries as 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.000 your own personal rules of engagement. This is lets other 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.560 people know what's okay with you what's not okay with you. 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.519 According to me, your boundaries are made up of your preferences, 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.800 your desires, your limits, and your deal breakers. Right, So 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.880 those four things are what your boundaries are made up of. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.160 And it's not enough to know them, which part of 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.880 the problem is most people don't even know them. But 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.679 you have to know them and then have the ability 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:03.679 to communicate them readily when you so choose. So why 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.440 are they important? This is how people know us because 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:11.080 think about your boundaries, preferences, desires, limits, deal breakers. They're 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.639 not just your boundaries. All of those things also make 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:19.560 up who you are, uniquely yourself. So when we've been 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.080 taught to be the cool girl, you know me, no fuss, 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.600 no muss, whatever's good with you, it's all good, it's 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.919 all good. What we're really doing is denying the people 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:32.520 in our life the ability to actually know who we are. 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:34.800 Like a lot of times we do it because we 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.040 don't like conflict or we don't want any problems. We 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.480 want everyone. We're managing the crap out of the people 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.400 in our sphere. And the real question is why, you know. 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.280 What people always ask me is why don't I know? Right, 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.240 especially because my crew is like super high functioning, highly 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.720 capable women in particular, that is my posse, And they 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.600 just don't get They feel bad, They're like, I could 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.480 figure out anything. Why can't I figure this out? And 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.360 it's basically, you don't know it because nobody taught you. 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.760 It's as long and as short as that, and just 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:09.200 like a language, you can learn it. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.840 What about in terms of if you're a people pleaser 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.160 and you find it difficult to disappoint people, And I 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.520 think because like I've heard boundaries being spoken about in 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.760 terms of, you know, you have a low self worth 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.640 and that's why you're finding it hard to kind of 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.640 put down and lay down your boundaries and communicate those boundaries. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.680 But what if you don't have a low self worth. 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:28.920 What if you feel as though you are confident in yourself, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.359 but you have this innate feeling that you hate making 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.000 people feel disappointed, and therefore you always seem to go 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.200 above and beyond, not because you're lacking in self confidence, 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.360 but because you hate this feeling of like I'm a 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:42.880 disappointment or I've disappointed them. 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.720 Well, kind of what you're talking about is what my 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.159 next book is about, which is high functioning codependency. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:54.480 Yeah. Right, so Laura, can we order the first copy? 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.359 We're back to having a therapy session where Laura unpacks 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.320 her own trauma. Yes, we end up you no, But 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.200 I mean I do ask the question because and it 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.760 probably is one that is introspective, but I do find 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.320 it very challenging for myself. I am a people pleaser 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:09.760 and I find it very hard to say no to 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.360 people if they have guilted me into doing something. 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.360 Yeah, and we had this exact and I know exactly 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.320 what you're saying. We had this exact conversation over the 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.599 last few days with Laura, this exact thing. I actually 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.480 it couldn't be more perfect timing. Where Laura is so 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.880 confident and sure of herself, but she will always say 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.400 yes when she doesn't want to do something for that 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.600 exact reason, because she doesn't want to disappoint someone. And 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.680 even through the way, I was like, but that's your boundary, 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.000 Like you don't want to do this, you don't have 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:34.400 to do it. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:36.479 She's like, but I just feel bad, all right. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.680 So we're really what we're talking about is the same 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:40.640 exact thing. And you can understand why I'm writing a 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.680 whole book about it, because it is about disordered boundaries. 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:45.720 Because when you say yes when you really want to 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:50.279 say no, that's a dysfunctional boundary, obviously, but you don't 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.360 have to The reason why I came up with a 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:57.159 new I coined a new phrase, high functioning codependency, because 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.800 I'm like you, and because my crew is like you. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.880 We're highly capable, like masters of the universe, getting shit done, 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.120 doing all the things, and running the stuff. Like a 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.200 lot of times, we're the person that people go to 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:13.760 in your friendship group. You're the rock and the family. 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.400 You're the one that makes everything happen, and yet you 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:23.040 are most likely overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.719 the decisions, the circumstances, the relationships of the people in 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:30.080 your life to the detriment of your own internal peace. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.919 And that's the definition of being a high functioning codependent. 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.800 So the why you don't want to disappoint people is 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.960 going to be as unique as your childhood was. Right, 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.359 We're all going to have our why as to what 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.040 does it mean why we don't want to disappoint. But 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.680 what really becomes evident in the teaching of the high 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.800 function codependency is that when we continue to self abandon 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.440 force ourselves to do crap we don't want to do, 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.080 say yes, we want to say no, that's a heavier 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.920 price to pay. And so what ends up happening is 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.560 you will learn in your life if you want to 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.120 to get over this people pleasing aspect of your personality, 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.040 because it really doesn't match really the rest of your personality. 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.200 Lar like what we're talking about, it actually kind of doesn't. 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.800 And think about it this way, when we say yes 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.040 when we want to say no, we're doing it with resentment. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.720 There's a cost to the relationship to how we feel 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:27.960 about the person. Because in my twenties I was much 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.720 more of a people pleaser then, and it's like I 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.880 would be like, oh, Betty is so entitled it's her. 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.000 I cannot believe why she asked me to do all 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.120 this stuff? What the hell is wrong with her? And 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.400 it's funny. A girlfriend of mine, Kate NORTHRP, we were 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:43.560 walking in New York a bunch of years ago and 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:45.720 she was complaining the whole time about this person who 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.520 she done so much for and she was like, who 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.960 is like this? I can't believe she's asking me to 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:53.360 do more blah blah blah like the whole time where 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.600 we were walking to an event and when we got there, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.120 I said, yeah, Kate, she's got some nerve putting you 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.480 in a position to have to say no. And she 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.360 was like, oh my god, Derek, you're so right. It's 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.200 literally on me to say no. I'm like, yeah, because 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.600 here's the thing, you guys, and you know this taker's 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.360 going to take. Yeah, it's up to the givers to 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:15.280 set limits. 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.440 How do you then get over the feeling that someone 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.320 is not going to like you, or they're going to 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.840 be angry at you, or there's going to be repercussions 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.200 for the know in which you're placing and whether that 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.240 be within your own family, whether that be within a 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.960 work environment. I think for people who struggle to set boundaries. 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.760 It's often because they're so worried about how that's going 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:34.960 to impact the other person. 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.920 How do I get over the feeling? Well, you learn 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.160 to tolerate the feeling, and then you start to have 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:44.840 positive experiences because it's not just a bad feeling that comes. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.320 When you set honest boundaries, you deepen the intimacy in 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.480 your life, you allow yourself to excelt you have relationships 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.240 that also feed you. You allow people to help you, 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:01.199 like there's more mutuality when you're not managing people. Because 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.240 here's what's happening, when you're saying yes when you really 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.600 want to say no. And you, guys, let's all get clear. 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.400 If you are in a relationship, if you have a family, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.200 it doesn't mean we're never going to do shit we 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.240 don't want to do. We do it for love, we 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.600 do it for compromise. We do it because that's called 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.280 being in a relationship. We're talking about times when you 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.840 really could say no when it really is your decision 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.840 to make, and that you don't allow yourself to say no. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:30.040 That's what we're talking about and the real question and 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.319 what I would say this could be helpful to anybody 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:36.679 listening is try to get to the original injury, because 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.480 there is one. What is it about when when someone 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.360 is wanting something from you that you kind of don't 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.160 want to give them or don't have the bandwidth for, 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.600 or or tired or whatever? Who do they remind you of? Right? 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.000 The three questions that we ask to figure out if 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.960 you're having a transferences, who does this person remind me of? 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.280 Where have I felt like this before? And how is 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.240 this behavioral dynamic? Right? Like someone asking me to do 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:01.680 something I don't want to do, but then me doing 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.400 it and then be feeling resemple? How is that familiar 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.280 to you? Maybe you saw it with the adults in 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.320 your life, maybe you've experienced it or maybe in childhood. 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.480 I don't know, but that can help figure out why 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.720 it feels so threatening, because what you're describing as a 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:21.960 child's feeling of that experience, because grown up you doesn't 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:22.600 feel that way. 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.880 What would you say constitutes or represents somebody who is 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:28.160 very bad at sitting boundaries? 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:28.240 Like? 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:29.120 What does that look like? 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.880 And how could they identify that they're bad at boundary setting? 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.600 All? Right, So let's look at the types of boundaries 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.520 that there are and if anyone wants to know their 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.000 boundary type, I have a free quiz online. It's just 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:44.360 boundaryquiz dot com. It's super easing and there's thirteen quick questions. 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.600 Then it'll tell you there's like seven archetypes. So you 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.520 might be more of a peacekeeper, or might be more 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.720 of a chameleon, and you will get your results from 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.640 the quiz anyway. So you could have porous boundaries, which 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.960 are boundaries that are too malleable. They're too loose, right, 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.640 So that's more saying yes when you want to say no. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.240 More of a chameleon, more of a peacekeeper, more of 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:08.280 a pushover type. You might have rigid boundaries. And this 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.560 is the thing that people barely ever talk about. They 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:15.200 feel like having bad boundaries only means being like a 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:19.280 doormat to other people. That's not true. Having rigid boundaries 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.160 is the my way, the highway people. The people who 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.440 would be so quick to literally cut you off if 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.760 you hurt their feelings, They couldn't go to you in 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.280 like two point two seconds rather than be vulnerable and 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.800 tell you that you hurt their feelings. So a rigid 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:40.800 boundary is where your boundary is too hard. There's no flexibility. 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:42.800 And then in the middle of that, of course, it's 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.800 healthy boundaries where there's a certain healthy flexibility where we 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.560 can compromise and we can work with other people. But 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.320 we know who we are, we know what we think, 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.800 we value our own opinions, we know that we're not 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.840 responsible for other people's feelings. Right, Like, the definition really 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:03.000 is is being super clear about what is your side 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.640 of the street emotionally and in every other way, and 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.840 what is someone else's side of the street. And when 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:12.120 you have enmeshed or porous boundaries, you don't know that 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.400 you feel like your friend's crisis is your crisis. Like 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.600 you can tell if you have disordered boundaries in this 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.000 way and in a codependent way, if you check your 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.720 urgency the moment your friend calls you and is in 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.680 a panic, how quickly is your heart racing and you 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:29.600 being like, oh my god, I'm googling the answer, I 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.360 know someone, I'm texting people. I'm in fix it mode immediately. 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.760 But it's like taking it on rather than being like, 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:38.719 how can I best support you? Or you know what 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.800 I mean? The foundation of codependency is disordered boundaries, right, 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.760 because what does it mean when you're codependent, overly invested in, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.319 overly involved in feeling states, outcomes, relationships, circumstances of the 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.680 people in your life, to the detriment of your own 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:59.280 internal peace, financial wellbeing, spiritual wellbeing. You cannot be codependent 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.080 and have good batday. Those two things don't go together. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.280 And when you really think about codependency, it is a 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.679 covert or overt bid to control other people's. 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.800 Outcomesh's that I've been doing on one for thirty six years. 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:13.680 Yeah, that's happened. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.520 I also think it's so important to note like well, 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.160 I mean, I don't want to say it's easy, but 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.680 it is easy in a way, to change who you 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.400 are and your boundaries that you do put on your 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.000 life and your friends and your relationships. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:26.920 I used to be like you, Laura, and we were 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:27.960 talking about this last night too. 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.320 I used to have no boundaries, say yes, let people 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.280 walk all over me, do everything, never want to hurt 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.959 anyone's feelings. And then I think I just got shot 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.200 on so many times that I am so far on 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.240 the other spectrum now where I just if I do 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:43.679 not want to do something that I don't have to do, 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.520 I can pretty easily say no. Obviously, there are times 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.679 you do something you want to do, and I think 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.719 that's important to note. There's always going to be things 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.400 that you do for a certain reason that you don't 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.600 want to do, like that is life. But when you 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.200 don't have to actually turn up somewhere and you're doing 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.679 it completely against your will, that's when you have to 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:00.440 start saying no. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.400 We also see people abuse the use of the idea 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.720 of boundaries, like instead of saying and using boundaries as 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.640 a weapon in a relationship like well this is my boundary, 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.840 I'm just telling you how I feel, and like we've 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.600 all learnt this sort of therapy talk. 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:14.920 Now. 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.720 We saw it recently with the big conversation that hit 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.720 the media, which was Jonah Hill and how he tried 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.360 to set boundaries with his ex girlfriend and what did 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:23.920 that look like? 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:25.200 Or it's just being an asshole? 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.760 Yeah, And I guess my big question here is is 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.400 how does one recognize the difference between what is healthy 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.840 boundary setting and when someone is actually using it as 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.360 a control technique or not even if it's controlled, but 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.120 just that they're being an asshole with the boundaries that 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:39.280 they're trying to set. 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.160 But it is control though, So let's go back to that, 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.320 especially if we're talking about the Jonahill Sarah Brady thing. Well, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:51.200 he was presenting his coercive control over her. He met 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.800 her and knew she was a surfer. He met her 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:56.880 because of her Instagram feed, and now he's like, you 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:58.960 can't wear a bathing suit and your Instagram feed, that's 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:03.640 my boundary. No, it would be like Sarah Brady saying 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.160 to him, I met you and you were a famous actor, 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.000 and now it's a year in or eight months in, 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.960 and my boundary is that you don't ever have a 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:15.880 kissing scene with another actor. That's my boundary. No, it's not. 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.080 That's also not a boundary. So how do we know 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.240 is when the other person is using the term boundary, 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.320 but what they're doing is trying to control you with it. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.520 So I'm going to give you an example. I had 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.800 a client who had a husband who he liked to 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:32.520 go to bed late. She liked to go to bed early, 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.240 and this kind of brought a bunch of conflict in 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.880 the relationship. She was always coming in being like, I 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:38.440 don't know why he goes to a bit so late. 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:40.160 It's like ridiculous, And he comes in and wakes me up, 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:41.880 blah blah blah. And my problem with the whole thing 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.640 is that he would not be considerate. So she'd go 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:46.240 to bed at ten, he'd come in at one and 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.080 basically turn the light on, get undressed in the bedroom. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:53.520 You're like, this is so she was like, he should 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.920 come into bed earlier. He needs more sleep. It's my boundary. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.720 And I was like, no, that's you trying to control him. 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.400 That's you being his mother. That's you thinking he's a 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.840 grown man. If he wants to sleep six hours a night, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.360 that literally is his prerogative in life. Where it is 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.760 your boundary is making a simple request that he get 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.040 dressed undressed in the other room, that he used a 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.160 small light from his phone. Who is not flipping on 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.400 the overhead light while you've been asleep for three hours? 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.760 Like that's where it spilled down to her side of 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:26.840 the street. And also, you know, we talked about them 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.040 compromising and then they decided, you know, three nights a 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.280 week to go to bed ten together or whatever it was. 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.040 But that's the distinction. Her trying to control his bedtime 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.560 is not a boundary. Yeah, her making a request that 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.680 he not be an inconsiderate boob is right. That is 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.360 a boundary to say I have a simple request that 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.040 you not wake me up, and they were able to 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.400 reach that agreement. But I think that's a good distinction 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.000 between control and actual boundary. 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.280 How important do you think it is to set your 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.480 boundaries at the beginning of a relationship, just talk about 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:05.520 romantic relationships as opposed to implementing your boundaries along the 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.560 way as things come up. And in saying that, are 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:10.760 you allowed to just change a boundary whenever you want? 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.280 Like you know, something was okay yesterday, it's not okay anymore. 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.880 Yes, now, I wouldn't do it that willy nilly, let's say. 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.600 But the question is can we evolve in a relationship. 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.040 Maybe I was willing to do X, Y and Z 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.080 five years ago. Maybe I'm no longer willing to do that, 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.480 and that requires a conversation acknowledging, Hey, this used to 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.400 work for me and it no longer does, so let's 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.000 renegotiate this. It's why I always have couples do what's 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.879 called what I call a couple of vision, where annually 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.199 you sit down and you're like, Okay, how do we 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:42.560 want to spend our money? How do we want to 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.879 spend our time. If we have free time, are we 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:46.800 talking about the right things? Are we having enough sex? 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.720 Are we like where are we? And every other week? 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.439 Also having a state of the Union because we do change. 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.440 I mean, jeez, I hope so like, are we hoping 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:57.679 that we're going to stay like we were when we 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:02.040 were seniors in high school? No? So the most important thing, though, 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.359 in a relationship is have really in depth conversations about 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.520 what works, about how you feel about things, about what 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.800 you want. I remember when I met my husband, I 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.919 was so overdating in New York City. I was single. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:14.680 I'd had long term relationships, but I was like a 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.320 serial monogamous where it was, you know, I was like, yeah, 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.520 for now, but like forever. No, definitely, not as soon 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.320 as they'd be like I think we should engaged. I'm like, 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.440 I think we should break up until my husband actually 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.840 and I remember being like, I'm so much happier, Like 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.240 I've built a really great life, so being alone there's 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.160 nothing wrong with it. I've had three amazing careers, I've 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:33.800 got great friends, I traveled around the I do what 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:35.800 I want, that's what I want to do. And I 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.240 remember when I met my husband, I just straight up 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.080 was like, I'm looking for someone to be a partner 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:41.840 who wants to buy a second home with me, who 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:43.760 would consider having a kid, who would like I just 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:45.840 said all the things because I was like, here's the thing. 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.080 If he's like, wow, that's scary, bye, I don't have time. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.399 I don't care. And so there was something so liberating 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.200 about telling the truth about how I felt setting boundaries right. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.399 I didn't want someone who had addiction issues because I 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.399 had addictiony like I was in recovery. It was like, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.359 I don't need anyone who's got any of those issues 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.639 for me. Right. There was a whole bunch of things, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.520 and in being able to just say them, it wasted 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.639 no time. And my husband at the time he was like, 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:13.280 sounds good. 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.280