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Speaker 1: Well, we've been talking about some of the issues in

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Speaker 1: various industries right now when it comes to filling some

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Speaker 1: of those jobs and you know, really making sure that

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Speaker 1: we've got enough workers in those various industries across the

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Speaker 1: dry season. But another industry that you may not have

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Speaker 1: thought of right now where it does seem as though

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Speaker 1: they're having some issues with staffing levels and it is

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Speaker 1: for various reasons by the sounds of things, is education.

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Speaker 1: Now Joining me on the line is the trade union

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Speaker 1: Branch secretary at the Australian Education Union here in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory, Adam Lampy. Good morning to.

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Speaker 2: You, Katie. Adam.

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Speaker 1: Have we got a shortage at the moment of teachers

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Speaker 1: in our schools?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got a critical shortage and yeah I can't

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Speaker 2: see getting any better. Unfortunately we have I would imagine

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Speaker 2: around about almost two thirds of territory schools who are

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Speaker 2: currently not fully staffed with teachers.

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Speaker 1: Wow. What is the reason for that?

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Speaker 2: Well, the various reasons. There's there's the there's a national

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Speaker 2: shortage and people may have been following that, you know

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Speaker 2: with the Quebian High School in New South Wales has

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Speaker 2: been prominent. You know, there is shortages in Victoria currently

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Speaker 2: and one of the issues we have here is the

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Speaker 2: the housing issue. In Catherine, the government is currently offering

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Speaker 2: a four year pay pay freeze, which is going to

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Speaker 2: put us at the bottom of the of the salary

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Speaker 2: schedule for teachers nationally, and that's just not going to

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Speaker 2: to get people to come here.

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Speaker 1: So across the board right now, we obviously have two

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Speaker 1: thirds of our schools from what you've said, around the

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Speaker 1: territory that aren't fully staffed. Is that getting even more

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Speaker 1: difficult as we see those COVID cases at different times

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Speaker 1: sort of ebb and flow, and it feels as though

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Speaker 1: right now there are a few more cases around the place,

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Speaker 1: particularly in schools.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think COVID is the issue. I think

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Speaker 2: COVID will impact on some schools for a very short period,

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Speaker 2: for short periods, But the fact of the matter is

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Speaker 2: they're already understaffed and they have been since the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the year, and well we're predicting if it will

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Speaker 2: probably get worse next semester halfway through the year. So

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Speaker 2: one of the things that's happening in July is that

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Speaker 2: Victorian teachers will beginning one percent pay rise and there,

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Speaker 2: which means they'll put their top the scale teachers above ours.

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Speaker 2: And given that a lot of our recruitment counts of Victoria,

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Speaker 2: I've had it. I've been told that over ninety percent

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Speaker 2: of the new recruits in Central Australia are all for Victoria.

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Speaker 2: And you know, if they can get themselves a higher

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Speaker 2: salary by teaching in their home state where the well

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Speaker 2: there's lack of there's going to be a lack of

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Speaker 2: incienting for them to come in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so you reckon, we're probably going to see

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Speaker 1: this situation exasperated by the second term.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, of course, what they're trying to do at

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Speaker 2: the moment is trying to press game corporate staff with

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Speaker 2: the teacher qualifications to go to the schools to fill

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Speaker 2: the gaps. But this is only a short term solution

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Speaker 2: and it's not really working anyway because those people have

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Speaker 2: jobs of their own to do, which is around teachers

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Speaker 2: support and if teachers aren't getting that or then that

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Speaker 2: becomes a workload issue and a quality issue in terms

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Speaker 2: of educational services in schools. So it's unless they start

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Speaker 2: funding probably education properly in a northern territory, it's not

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Speaker 2: going to be resolved.

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Speaker 1: So, Adam, from what you're saying at the moment, we've

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Speaker 1: actually got a situation where where some of those staff

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Speaker 1: that have maybe been working in more of the administration

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Speaker 1: type roles or management or behind the scenes roles, they're

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Speaker 1: actually being called back into the classroom to assist.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're being asked to do so a lot of

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Speaker 2: their position. There's been a restructure they're killing in a

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Speaker 2: realignment in the department. But essentially they're cutting a lot

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Speaker 2: of those corporate jobs. And most of those jobs are

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Speaker 2: people on fixed team contracts, so they came from school

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Speaker 2: based positions and they got into those roles, so those

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Speaker 2: jobs will not be renewed. And of course there's a

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Speaker 2: problem around tea that obviously they're going to be a

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Speaker 2: problem with teacher support. But you know, they are putting

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Speaker 2: pressure on people right now who are in our corp

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Speaker 2: positions to go out to teach in schools. But you know,

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Speaker 2: that's all well and good, but who's going to be

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Speaker 2: doing their job while they're not there or the answer

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Speaker 2: is no, no one, you know, so who's going to

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Speaker 2: provide the curriculum support, the behavior management support, other systemic

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Speaker 2: support jobs that those people do. What's going to happen

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Speaker 2: till all of that, well, you know, it's just not

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Speaker 2: going to happen.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like there's an issue right across the

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Speaker 1: board at the moment, you know, in terms of those

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Speaker 1: staffing levels, Adam, what needs to happen.

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Speaker 2: Here, Well, they need to provide a bit of a

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Speaker 2: wage offer than they're currently doing. So right now we're

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Speaker 2: going through an employee ballot which closes on Friday, which

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Speaker 2: is the same offer they made to the public service,

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Speaker 2: which is a four year pay freeze. Victoria have already

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Speaker 2: secured a two percent plus one percent bonus for the

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Speaker 2: next four years in their jurisdiction. The Western Australians have

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Speaker 2: already knocked back two and a half percent pay rise

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Speaker 2: and they'll be sort of equivalent kinds of rises across

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Speaker 2: the country. So that's the first step. The first step

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Speaker 2: is to is to provide a competitive set of paying conditions,

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Speaker 2: and what the government's offering at the moment just doesn't

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Speaker 2: cut it.

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Speaker 1: And so when were we are you guys under those

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Speaker 1: you know, are those pay negotiations happening at the moment

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Speaker 1: or where exactly is that at? Because I know that

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Speaker 1: obviously for some of the other public sector areas, it

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Speaker 1: had been sorted or there'd been a resolution. But what's

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Speaker 1: the go right now for you guys.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're playing with fire, Cadie, because we we gave

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Speaker 2: them an offer of you know, we said something like

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Speaker 2: say five percent over two years and then we'll have

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Speaker 2: another look at it. And they said, well that's too much,

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Speaker 2: and we said we'll give us another number, you know,

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Speaker 2: and the number is zero. They're just not willing to

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Speaker 2: negotiate at all. So what's happening now is there is

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Speaker 2: there is a boat which all employees attached to the

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Speaker 2: teacher teacher Agreement, which is around about two and a

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Speaker 2: half thousand employees attached to that agreement. You know, that's

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Speaker 2: currently being voted on now. And I can tell you

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Speaker 2: quite confidently that there is there's no way that territory

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Speaker 2: teachers are going to accept that because they can see

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Speaker 2: what's going on now the jurisd six and it's going

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Speaker 2: to cripple our sister. How can we how can we

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Speaker 2: provide public education here if we can't start it, because

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Speaker 2: they're just people who will just leave, don't take the bonuses,

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Speaker 2: they'll take the bonuses, they'll and they'll leave well.

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Speaker 1: And the difficulty is, you know, I think, look, I

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Speaker 1: you know, I feel pretty passionately that I think teachers

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Speaker 1: are such an incredibly important you know, they're an important

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Speaker 1: part of the fabric of the Northern Territory. They do

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Speaker 1: an incredibly important job. In my humble opinion, I know that,

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Speaker 1: you know, there may be some people listening this morning,

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Speaker 1: Adam who are saying our teachers just being greedy here.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're not being great, of course, of course they're not.

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Speaker 2: It's a question of you, you know, if you if

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Speaker 2: you're just following the money, which most most teach. There's

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Speaker 2: plenty of places where they can go right now and

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Speaker 2: get themselves a better deal. And there's plenty of jurisdictions

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Speaker 2: right now. They're willing to pay for your relocation to

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Speaker 2: go and teach in New South Wales or Victoria, which

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Speaker 2: costs them a lot of money, but they're they're so

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Speaker 2: desperate that they're willing to provide, you know, incentives to

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Speaker 2: do so. The Victoria. The other thing about Victoria is

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Speaker 2: they've also secured an extra hour and a half not

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Speaker 2: contact time, so teachers can do deal with the workload issue,

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Speaker 2: which is the other thing that's stopping people from actually

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Speaker 2: entering in the profession is because of the crippling workloads.

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Speaker 2: People just have had enough, so they're just not going

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Speaker 2: into the professional or they're leaving it because it's just

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Speaker 2: too much. So no, it's we will become the lowest

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Speaker 2: paid teachers in the country within twelve to eighteen months

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Speaker 2: if we were to accept this. Wow, the ways free

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Speaker 2: which is just is not going to recruit or retain teachers.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, how are you going to run schools?

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Speaker 2: In fact, with the bonuses, you're actually encouraging people to leave.

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Speaker 2: So people, I'm a Victorian teacher, I'll stay to the

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Speaker 2: end of the year, I'll pocket my six thousand dollars bonus,

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Speaker 2: and then I'll go to Victoria and walk into a

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Speaker 2: job with a higher salary. That's what's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Well, Adam, it sounds like we've got a bit of

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Speaker 1: an issue on our hands, and one which needs to

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Speaker 1: be sorted because we are talking about the education of

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Speaker 1: our children. Like I said, I think it's a job

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Speaker 1: that's so incredibly important. So please keep us up to

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Speaker 1: date with how these negotiations go. Let us know how

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Speaker 1: things are tracking. If you can Yeah, I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time this morning. Thanks for chatting with me, so

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Speaker 1: thanks Adam,