1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. Happy Friday. 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: It's the fourth of August. I'm Sam Kazlowski and I'm 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: Zara Seidler. The Federal government has reintroduced its Housing Bill 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: to Parliament this week, which would provide an investment fund 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: for social and affordable housing, but not everyone supports the bill, 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: and opposition to it might not only stop the bill 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: from progressing, but could lead to the entire Parliament getting dissolved. 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 3: Prepared to risk control of Parliament House to get his 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 3: housing bill through the Parliament. 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: The deadlock over Labour's social housing plan could see voters 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: forced into an early election. TDA journalist Tom Crowley will 18 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 2: join me in the Deep Dive to explain what the 19 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: bill is, what's standing in its way, and why the 20 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: government might actually not want the bill to pass. The 21 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 2: firs aras some news for university students. 22 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 3: That's right. Legislation has been introduced in the Federal Parliament 23 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 3: that is seeking to scrap the fifty percent pass rule 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,639 Speaker 3: at Australian universities. The rule requires students to pass fifty 25 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 3: percent of their units of study in order to access 26 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 3: hex assistance. An interim report tabled last month found the 27 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 3: rule was disproportionately impacting students from disadvantaged backgrounds. If you 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 3: want to know more on this one, we have done 29 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: a deep dive before, so check the link in our 30 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 3: show notes. 31 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: Half the teams at the Women's World Cup have been 32 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: eliminated from the competition with the conclusion of the group 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: stages of the tournament. The first round of knockout games 34 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: will begin tomorrow and run until Tuesday. Of course, the 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: Matilda's play their knockout match against Denmark on Monday night. 36 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 3: Police raids in Brazil have killed forty five people in 37 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 3: the past week. The raids targeted drug gangs in three 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 3: different parts of Brazil. At least ten people were killed 39 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: in Rio de Janeiro in a raid the police said 40 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: ended in a shootout. 41 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: And Today's good news. They might have lost the ashes, 42 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: but they're good at recycling. Plastic carry bag use in 43 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: England has dropped by ninety eight percent since the government 44 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: began imposing fees for the single use items changes we 45 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: introduced in supermarkets in twenty fifteen and extended to all 46 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: businesses in twenty twenty one. The measure has been hailed 47 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 2: a success in reducing plastic waste. Yesterday on the podcast, 48 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: our top headline was that the Housing Bill had been 49 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 2: reintroduced to Parliament and while this bill is a central 50 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: part of the government's plan for affordable housing, it hasn't 51 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: been an easy ride to get it passed. To explain 52 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: what's happened so far on this long and tumultuous journey, 53 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: and how this legislation could even trigger an early election, 54 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: I'm joined by Tom. Tom welcome back to the podcast. 55 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: Good to be here, Sam, A bit of a bumpy 56 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: road ahead of us in this discussion, Tom and I 57 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: want to start right at the very beginning. What do 58 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: we need to know about this housing build that has 59 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: made its way back to Parliament this week? 60 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 4: So this, Sam is I guess you'd say, the government's 61 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 4: centerpiece social housing policy. And their proposal is to use 62 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 4: government funds to build social and affordable housing. So I 63 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 4: should probably define those things straight up for Todd. But 64 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 4: we talk about social housing, we're talking about housing that 65 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 4: is effectively provided by the government, usually state and territory governments, 66 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 4: but the federal government provides some funding. And then affordable housing, 67 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 4: which is this just sort of broader category of housing 68 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 4: that's offered at rents that are below the market rate, 69 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 4: cheaper housing, and the government wants to help build more 70 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 4: of these houses. It's doing it in a slightly unusual way. 71 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 4: It's doing it by setting up an investment fund called 72 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 4: the Housing Australia Future Fund, and the idea is ten 73 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 4: billion dollars of initial capital gets put into this fund, 74 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 4: it gets invested in shares or whatever, and then the 75 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 4: investment returns on what's in that fund will then go 76 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 4: to fund the construction of housing. So it's a slightly 77 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 4: roundabout way of getting there. But the plan is a 78 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 4: little fund about half a billion dollars worth of new 79 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 4: housing every year and the government hopes that that will 80 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 4: construct thirty thousand homes in the next five years, but 81 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 4: then will continue to be available I guess forever and 82 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 4: ever because this money has been invested to continue to 83 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 4: build more social and affordable housing over time. That's the 84 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 4: plan at least, but so far Parliament has other ideas. 85 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: Earlier in the year, the bill passed through the House 86 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: of Representatives, but then it got stuck in the Senate. 87 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: Why have the Greens and the Coalition, on separate sides 88 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: of the political spectrum, been so opposed to the bill. 89 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 4: So for very different reasons. I guess, as you say, Sam, 90 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 4: the Coalition and the Greens don't often agree, and it 91 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 4: wouldn't quite be right to say that they agree here. 92 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 4: So the Coalition doesn't like it. Basically, I don't think 93 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 4: it's a good use of money. Typically, the Coalition hasn't 94 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 4: tended to favor social housing as a solution to the 95 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 4: housing crisis because it's funded by the government. They tend 96 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 4: to put more of a focus on private housing, and 97 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 4: so for that reason they've really not entertained. 98 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: This bill at all. 99 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 4: They've been opposed from the beginning and haven't been all 100 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 4: that interested in negotiating. That means numbers wise that the 101 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 4: Government needs the Greens to be able to pass the bill. 102 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 4: The Greens are generally supportive of social housing. Their argument 103 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 4: has been that this doesn't go far enough. So initially 104 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 4: they were worried that this investment fund it's quite, as 105 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 4: I say, quite a roundabout way of funding housing, and 106 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 4: the Greens called it a bit of a gamble. You're 107 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 4: gambling on the stock market to give you a return 108 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 4: to be able to fund any housing at all. So 109 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 4: as a result, they wanted the government to go further 110 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 4: right now and say, well, look, put your money where 111 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 4: your mouth is, put some immediate funding into social housing, 112 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 4: not just you know, make us wait for this investment fund. 113 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 4: But on top of that, they also have used this 114 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 4: as an opportunity to push the government to go further 115 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 4: on the rental crisis, something of course that we spent 116 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 4: a lot of time talking about, and so they've said, well, 117 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 4: if you're talking about social and affordable housing, we want 118 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 4: you to do something to support renters. And in particular 119 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 4: the Greens have been calling for a rent freeze. That's 120 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 4: not something that the federal government has the power to do. 121 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 4: That's a state and territory thing. But the Greens have 122 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 4: asked the federal government essentially to take the lead and 123 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 4: try and encourage states and territories to enact a rent 124 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 4: freeze in the context of the rent crisis. It's not 125 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 4: a directly related issue to this housing fund, but the 126 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 4: Greens have said, while we're talking about housing, you know, 127 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 4: we'll support your fund if you do this, and that's 128 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 4: part of where this got stuck. 129 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: Okay, so the Greens take the opportunity to basically say, 130 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: if you don't freeze rents, we're not going to support 131 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: your bill. How did the government respond to those calls 132 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: from the Greens? 133 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 4: So it's all been pretty tense and hostile. The Government 134 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 4: and the Greens have been sort of trading barbs in 135 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 4: Parliament about this for a few months now, both accusing 136 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 4: one another of not doing enough about the housing crisis. 137 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 4: But the government did move a little bit further so 138 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 4: a couple of months ago it announced that it would 139 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 4: give about two billion dollars in immediate funding to states 140 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 4: and territories for social housing on top of the Housing Fund. Now, 141 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 4: the Government didn't want to give the Greens credit for this. 142 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 4: They were very clear to say, no, we're not doing 143 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 4: this because the Greens asked us too. We're just doing 144 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 4: it because we want to do it. But it's fair 145 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 4: to say at least the Green's welcome did. It was 146 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 4: one of the things they had been asking for and 147 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 4: they did take credit for it. 148 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: We've been calling for that for months, and for months 149 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: the government has said it was impossible, and then over 150 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: the weekend Labor backflipped under Green's pressure. 151 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 4: But it didn't go far enough for them again because 152 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 4: of this issue of the rent freeze, and so you 153 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 4: had Adam Bant saying that his party still wouldn't support 154 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 4: the fund, and of course the Coalition still didn't support 155 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 4: the fund, and so it didn't get up. The government 156 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 4: tried to put this to a vote in June and 157 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 4: it didn't get there. The Coalition and the Greens voted 158 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 4: to get ether twice to prevent the bill from even 159 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 4: getting to the stage where it could be voted on. 160 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 4: So they basically blocked it together, and the Prime Minister 161 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 4: in no uncertain terms accused them of banding together to 162 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 4: derail this plan to build more social housing. 163 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: What we had over there with the Greens teaming up 164 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: with them is working to block public housing. And so 165 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: now we're in a position where the Government has reintroduced 166 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: this housing Bill to Parliament. What do you think is 167 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: changed from their perspective? That they think they're going to 168 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 2: get it through. 169 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: Now, Yeah, it's not entirely clear that anything has changed, 170 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 4: Sam I think is probably what I would say. So 171 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 4: this bill gets blocked in June, and what we have 172 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 4: this week is the government saying we're going to have 173 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 4: another go. We're bringing it back. But at the moment, 174 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 4: at least, it's exactly the same bill, exactly the same 175 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 4: bill that both the Greens and the coalitions have said 176 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 4: we're not going to support. 177 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: So you could take an intelligent guess that it's probably 178 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: not going to get through again. 179 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, at least at the moment. Now, the Greens 180 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 4: their languages shifted a little bit. They've revised down the 181 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 4: amount of additional short term money that they want to see, 182 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 4: and they've stopped talking about a rent freeze and they're 183 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 4: now talking about just sort of some form of rent limit, 184 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 4: some sort of cap on how much rents can go 185 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 4: up nationwide. So they've said, look, we're willing to negotiate, 186 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 4: we want to find an agreement. The government has also 187 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 4: said that it will negotiate a little bit, but at 188 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 4: least so far we've had no significant concessions and no 189 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 4: particular change at the moment that would suggest that this 190 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 4: is going to pass. So I guess that's prompted maybe 191 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 4: a second question, which is whether the government perhaps actually 192 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 4: wants its housing bill to fail a second time. 193 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: Okay, now that's interesting, and that then sounds like a 194 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: little bit more of the political strategy behind this kind 195 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: of thing. Why would a sitting government want to build 196 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: a fail a second time. 197 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 4: So basically, if a government bill gets rejected twice, the 198 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 4: government is then able to call for a special type 199 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 4: of election. So specifically it is if something passes the 200 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 4: House of Representatives twice and gets rejected in the Senate 201 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 4: twice or vice versa, then you have the situation where 202 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 4: the two houses of Parliament disagree. The Prime Minister is 203 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 4: able to then go to the Governor General and say 204 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 4: it's time for an election. These two houses can't agree, 205 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 4: where at deadlock you need to send us back to 206 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 4: the Australian people. And it's a special type of election 207 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 4: because the entire House of Reps and the entire Senate 208 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 4: then get dissolved and sent back to an election. And 209 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 4: if you remember no silly questions back in the election 210 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 4: campaign last year, SAMP, that's not how it normally works. 211 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 4: So normally, in an election, we only elect half the 212 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 4: Senate at a time, and the senators get elected for 213 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 4: six year terms. This, which is called a double dissolution, 214 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 4: is different. The whole Senate goes back out and you 215 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 4: get a completely fresh Senate, and so that makes it 216 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 4: a slightly different playing field and sometimes government might think 217 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 4: that that's advantageous for them essentially. I mean, we talk 218 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 4: all the time on this podcast about how much difficulty 219 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 4: the government has getting things through the Senate. They might 220 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 4: go to a double disolution election because they think they're 221 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 4: going to get a better Senate, an easier Senate to 222 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 4: work with. That's one reason why you might do that. 223 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 4: But certainly, at least at this stage, the speculation is 224 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 4: that the government might be happy if it's housing bill 225 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 4: gets rejected twice because it's got a trigger for that 226 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 4: sort of double dissolution election up at sleeve if it 227 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 4: wants one. Now. At the moment, the Prime Minister, he's 228 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 4: been using the words double dissolution a lot, and I 229 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 4: guess dangling this threat at the moment he said, look, 230 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 4: I want this housing built to pass. That's my first priority. 231 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,599 Speaker 4: I don't plan to call an election this year. And 232 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 4: I don't want to call an early election, but you know, 233 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 4: I may have it up my sleeve. So that's something 234 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 4: that the Greens and the Coalition should be aware of 235 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 4: that if they vote this down, I'm going to have 236 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 4: that trigger which I can pull if I want. And that's, 237 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 4: as you say, Sam, where the politicking comes into this 238 00:11:58,440 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 4: a little bit. 239 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 2: And I'm sure that the Coalition and the Greens would 240 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: be well aware of what happens in a double dissolution 241 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: election as well, and would also be thinking, Okay, if 242 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: we go back to the polls and if the entire 243 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 2: Senate is up for grabs, how do you think we'd perform? 244 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 2: And I'm sure some of that kind of anxiety might 245 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: even lead to more cooperation. What do you think is 246 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: going to happen here? What's the crystal ball sentiment from 247 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: Tom Crowley? 248 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 4: Well, I mean it is just crystal ball. I don't 249 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 4: think anyone knows quite which way this one's going to land. Sam. 250 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 4: My gut feel is they're going to get a deal 251 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 4: done with the Greens and they're going to pass this. 252 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 4: I think the language has shifted just a little bit 253 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 4: in the last few days on that. It reminds me 254 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 4: a little bit of similar arguments that people might remember 255 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 4: about climate change a few months ago in Parliament between 256 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 4: Labor and the Greens, where they were squabbling a lot 257 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 4: and saying mean things about each other in the media, 258 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 4: but there was always this sense the word negotiation kept 259 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 4: being used, and they were saying, we don't like each other, 260 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 4: but yes, we're talking and eventually they work something out. 261 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 4: I wasn't so sure about that a few months ago 262 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 4: because they were so far apart, but they have moved 263 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 4: a lot closer together in the last week or so. 264 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 4: At least there is some indication that a deal might 265 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 4: get done. And there's the other question that looms over this, 266 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 4: which is whether the government would actually want a double dissolution, 267 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 4: whether that's actually a believable threat, because it's not entirely 268 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 4: clear that they would get a better Senate or that 269 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 4: they would even do well in the House of Representatives 270 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 4: if they called an election in the short term, and 271 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 4: the PM is sort of hosed down the likelihood that 272 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 4: he's going to do that. The coalition, you know, they 273 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 4: just want to buy election. They're feeling reasonably good about 274 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 4: their chances, at least compared to where they were a 275 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 4: few months ago, and the Greens are saying, well, if 276 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 4: you want to call the double dissolution because you're refusing 277 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 4: to do more for renters, then we're pretty happy to 278 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 4: run that election against you on those grounds. So it's 279 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 4: not entirely clear what the strategic benefit would actually be 280 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 4: for the government at the moment. I think it's more 281 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 4: likely that this is just posturing. Of course, we'll have 282 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 4: to wait and see. 283 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: Tom. 284 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us on The Daily Ours today. 285 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 3: Thanks Sam, Thanks for tuning in to this episode of 286 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 3: The Daily Oas I know I learned something from Tom 287 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 3: and Sam's chat. If you did leave us a review 288 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 3: or leave a comment, it's how we know that you're listening. 289 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: Have a brilliant weekend and we'll chat to you again 290 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 3: on Monday.