WEBVTT - The downfall of an Australian tech billionaire

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is this is the daily This is

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<v Speaker 1>the Daily. Ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday, the twenty

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<v Speaker 1>eighth of October. I'm Harry, I'm Sam. Late last week,

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<v Speaker 1>the CEO of one of Australia's biggest tech companies, Wise

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<v Speaker 1>Tech Global, Richard White, stepped down. It came after a

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<v Speaker 1>major investigation by nine newspapers into the billionaire founder of

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<v Speaker 1>the software and logistics business. An outpouring of scandals, both

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<v Speaker 1>in his professional and private life, have dominated the headlines

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<v Speaker 1>ever since. In today's deep dive, we'll have a look

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<v Speaker 1>at the Richard White scandal and what it could mean

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<v Speaker 1>for the global juggernaut in the tech world. The first

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<v Speaker 1>Sam what's making headlines.

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<v Speaker 2>The Liberal National Party has won the Queensland state election,

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<v Speaker 2>defeating the nine year incumbent Labor Government. LMP leader David

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<v Speaker 2>Jucifully will become the next Queensland Premier. It's only the

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<v Speaker 2>second time the LNP has one power in Queensland since

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty nine. Outgoing Labour Premier Stephen Miles conceded too

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<v Speaker 2>Chrisofully in a phone call yesterday. With results so far

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<v Speaker 2>showing that ALP is set to lose about fifteen seats.

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<v Speaker 1>US President Joe Biden has made an historic apology to

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<v Speaker 1>Native American communities over a policy that forcibly removed Indigenous

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<v Speaker 1>children from their families. Around one hundred and eighty thousand

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<v Speaker 1>students were made to attend boarding schools under the policy

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<v Speaker 1>that lasted about one hundred and fifty years between eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen and nineteen sixty nine. Many of the schools were

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<v Speaker 1>run by church groups, with students often suffering physical and

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<v Speaker 1>emotional abuse. According to government data, at least nine hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and seventy three American, Indian, Alaska, Native, and Native Hawaiian

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<v Speaker 1>children died at the schools under the policy. President by

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<v Speaker 1>boas and attended an event in Arizona over the weekend

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<v Speaker 1>where he acknowledged the pain and suffering of the Native

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<v Speaker 1>American communities and delivered the first apology from a government

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<v Speaker 1>official of its kind in front of a gathering of

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<v Speaker 1>community members and leaders. Biden said, quote, a formal apology

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<v Speaker 1>to the Indian nations for the way we treated their

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<v Speaker 1>children for so many years was something that we should

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<v Speaker 1>have done a long time ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Australia's Telcos are planning to completely switch off their three

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<v Speaker 2>gene networks from today. Telstra and Optus say the switch

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<v Speaker 2>is necessary to improve the capacity, speed and reliability of

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<v Speaker 2>their four G and five gen networks. Vodafone already completed

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<v Speaker 2>its three G shutdown earlier this year. Following the switch off,

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<v Speaker 2>devices relying on the three gen network will be unable

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<v Speaker 2>to make or receive calls, sends texts, or access the Internet.

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<v Speaker 2>This includes emergency calls and In today's good news, a

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<v Speaker 2>team of researchers in the US have discovered fossils of

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<v Speaker 2>a swamp dwelling mammal dating back to the age of dinosaurs.

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<v Speaker 2>Palaeontologists from the University of Colorado discovered the Helio Cola

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<v Speaker 2>pisoners in their state, which they say weighed about the

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<v Speaker 2>same as a chicken. Believed to be the cousin of

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<v Speaker 2>modern day marsupials, it would have predominantly lived in and

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<v Speaker 2>around swamps. It's believed the little swamp dweller would have

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<v Speaker 2>lived around seventy to seventy five million years ago, at

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<v Speaker 2>a time when central West America would have been largely underwater.

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<v Speaker 2>In what scientists say is a red discovery of a

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<v Speaker 2>new species from the Cretaceous period. Okay, so Harry, last

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<v Speaker 2>week there was a bit of a frenzy in tabloids,

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<v Speaker 2>but the business papers of Australia really zoned in on

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<v Speaker 2>Richard White, this guy who I hadn't particularly been familiar with,

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<v Speaker 2>but all of a sudden he was everywhere. I still

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<v Speaker 2>don't fully understand who Richard White is and what his company,

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<v Speaker 2>Wise tech Global, actually does. Why don't we go back

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<v Speaker 2>to basics first, help me answer those two questions. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's not unusual that you didn't know who Richard

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<v Speaker 2>White was. In an interview with the Australian Financial Review

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<v Speaker 2>a little earlier this year, he actually described being quite

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<v Speaker 2>a private person and so he has really ascended up

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<v Speaker 2>into billionaire status quite quickly. But he's actually a fairly

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<v Speaker 2>unknown figure in the business world, and I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>not unfair to say that many people would have been

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<v Speaker 2>looking at the headlines and sort of not knowing who

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<v Speaker 2>he was as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But then secret, lover, mansion, kind of all these all

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<v Speaker 1>these words started popping up. It was just, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the perfect headline grabbar.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>So he co founded Wistek, which is one of the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest logistics companies in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>And breakdown what that means. Formuat mean one of those

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<v Speaker 2>corporate words. Oh my god's still logistics software like all

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<v Speaker 2>the buzzwords, right, But basically what it is is a

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<v Speaker 2>business trying to make the international trade of goods and

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<v Speaker 2>services easier.

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<v Speaker 1>So wyse Tech's mostly based on exporting for freight. So

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<v Speaker 1>if we think about just international trade, things have to

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<v Speaker 1>move from warehouses, it needs to then be moved to

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<v Speaker 1>somewhere to customize product, and then it needs to be

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<v Speaker 1>shipped to somewhere like Australia but could be via Singapore.

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<v Speaker 1>So wyse Tech is the business that tries to simplify

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<v Speaker 1>that process for the shipping companies, right.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's kind of like project management software used by

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<v Speaker 2>shipping companies exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>I just think of it as trying to make it

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<v Speaker 1>as simple and as user friendly as possible for these

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<v Speaker 1>companies because it's a very complicated world.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and by trade, you're not talking about like the

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<v Speaker 2>one candle I bought on Amazon for thirty dollars. You're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about masses and volumes and freight containers and ships.

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<v Speaker 1>These are big clients. These are big clients doing huge

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<v Speaker 1>amounts of trade around the world and worth a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of money.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and so is the client of whys Tech Global

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<v Speaker 2>company not a person effectively?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So I couldn't exactly just go up to wires

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<v Speaker 1>Tech and say hey, I need some things shipped because

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<v Speaker 1>they're sort of the back end organizers of that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of process.

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<v Speaker 2>And what are we talking valuation wise?

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<v Speaker 1>It was publicly listed on the Australian Stock Exchange in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen and it's now worth roughly thirty three billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars in Australian dollars. And Richard White actually scraped into

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<v Speaker 1>the afr's Rich List top ten at the start of

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<v Speaker 1>this year and he's worth something to the tune of

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<v Speaker 1>about twelve and a half billion dollars according to Forbes.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so we're talking really about one of the richest

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<v Speaker 2>people in Australia, a very powerful figure in business and

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<v Speaker 2>in the shipping international landscape. But why are we talking

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<v Speaker 2>about him today? Why are we talking about him on

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<v Speaker 2>the daily os.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not about the business itself of whites Tech,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was all about Richard White last week because

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<v Speaker 1>a major investigation conducted by the nine newspapers. So the

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney Morning Herald, The Age and the Australian Financial Review.

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<v Speaker 1>They looked into some of these scandals surrounding Richard White himself.

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<v Speaker 1>They detailed some individual matters involving White, and there were

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<v Speaker 1>quite a few of them, so bear with me, Sam

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<v Speaker 1>as I try to summarize them. In twenty twenty, White

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<v Speaker 1>had told the board of wis Tech that his former

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<v Speaker 1>partner was legally pursuing him over a house that he

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<v Speaker 1>had bought her two years earlier, but that matter has

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<v Speaker 1>since been resolved. Secondly, it was alleged that White had

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<v Speaker 1>a seven year relationship with an employee at wires Tech,

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<v Speaker 1>and after they broke up, he brought her a seven

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<v Speaker 1>million dollar property in Melbourne. There was, thirdly, this story

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<v Speaker 1>relating to his now wife, Zinna Nassar, who it emerged

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<v Speaker 1>how to approached police in twenty twenty one to get

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<v Speaker 1>what's known as an apprehended violence order against White. She

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<v Speaker 1>later withdrew that request. Pair are now married and they

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<v Speaker 1>have a child together. There was a fourth story which

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<v Speaker 1>centered around these female entrepreneurs that provided evidence to the

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<v Speaker 1>nine newspapers that Richard White had been reaching out them

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<v Speaker 1>via LinkedIn and social media, where he was initially offering

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<v Speaker 1>some professional advice, but then the conversation would veer very

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<v Speaker 1>sharply into very sexually laden language, and the messages often

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<v Speaker 1>became overtly sexual. And then after some of these stories emerged,

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<v Speaker 1>the snowball sort of got a bit bigger because more

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<v Speaker 1>women came out to say that they had had relationships

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<v Speaker 1>with Richard White. There was a woman who told the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian newspaper that both she and White had had a

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<v Speaker 1>casual relationship before his current wife reached out to her

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<v Speaker 1>and told her to stop contacting him.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so we're talking about a serious volume of complaints

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<v Speaker 2>against Richard White that go back a number of years.

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<v Speaker 2>I also saw there was a matter with an ex

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<v Speaker 2>partner that was settled in court last week. Talk about

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<v Speaker 2>that for timing. What was that about?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. It's just not like Richard White had enough

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<v Speaker 1>going on, as it was in the headline. So it

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<v Speaker 1>was his separate federal court case. But that was between

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<v Speaker 1>Richard White and a wellness influencer, Linda Rogan, who was

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<v Speaker 1>his ex partner. Rogan owns Laser CLINICX in Sydney, Cans

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<v Speaker 1>and Auckland. She was also contender to go on the

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<v Speaker 1>Real Housewives of Sydney. Back in twenty twenty two, the

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<v Speaker 1>federal court case related to a thirteen point one million

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<v Speaker 1>dollar property in for clues for anyone that doesn't know that,

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<v Speaker 1>that's quite a wealthy suburb in Sydney, right by the beach,

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<v Speaker 1>and effectively White bought this property for Rogan. She had

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<v Speaker 1>apparently spent about ninety one thousand dollars on luxury furniture

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<v Speaker 1>for the house. There was a bit of back and

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<v Speaker 1>forth about this money and who would stump up for it,

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<v Speaker 1>and the matter ended up in the federal court. There

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<v Speaker 1>was another big part of this story. In a statement

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<v Speaker 1>to the court, Rogan had alleged that White had ex

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<v Speaker 1>expected her to have sex with him in return for

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<v Speaker 1>his investments in her businesses. So there was an alleged

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<v Speaker 1>transactional relationship there. But we don't know if that's true

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<v Speaker 1>at all because the matter was actually settled out of court,

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<v Speaker 1>so it never progressed, and that a trial week. That

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<v Speaker 1>all happened last week that wrapped up, so the legal

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<v Speaker 1>action was all settled, and so we don't have any

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<v Speaker 1>further evidence on the public record. We only have those

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<v Speaker 1>statements that were put forward, but they're never going to

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<v Speaker 1>be legally tested.

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<v Speaker 2>So zooming out though if you look at this last month,

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<v Speaker 2>even if you ignore those legal proceedings in that particular settlement,

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<v Speaker 2>just the other avenues that have opened up concerning Richard White,

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<v Speaker 2>What do you think has been so important about what's

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<v Speaker 2>emerged recently?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there was I guess a bit of a mix

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<v Speaker 1>between his personal and professional life in these headlines, and

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<v Speaker 1>those streams definitely intersected.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is particularly interesting for a publicly listed company, right

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<v Speaker 2>where you've got shareholders who could be any of.

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<v Speaker 1>Us, absolutely, and I think that's where we get into

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of discussion about behavior standards in not just workplace,

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<v Speaker 1>but at the very senior ranks of a company and

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<v Speaker 1>what do your shareholders expect of you. So there was

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<v Speaker 1>also a memo that was sent out in twenty nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>that the nine newspapers had got a hold of last week,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was from one of the former directors of

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<v Speaker 1>wis Tech, Christine Holman. She was on the board and

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<v Speaker 1>left after about ten months at the company in twenty nineteen,

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<v Speaker 1>and on her way out she explained to the board

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<v Speaker 1>that part of her reason for leaving was because of

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<v Speaker 1>White's quote sustained intimidation and bullying, and he had engaged

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<v Speaker 1>in what she called unacceptable behavior, and she listed things

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<v Speaker 1>like he would send very aggressive emails, he would publicly

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<v Speaker 1>humiliate some of his staff and berate them in front

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<v Speaker 1>of other people, and in very important audit meetings and

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<v Speaker 1>committee meetings, he would also intimidate people and make them

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<v Speaker 1>feel ridiculed, according to Holman, And.

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<v Speaker 2>It does take on another character, doesn't it, when it's

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily extramarital affairs or something it's happening outside of this.

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<v Speaker 1>It's purely the workplace.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a workplace issue, now.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. And I think it's just important to stop

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<v Speaker 1>here because as far as we know, and the information

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<v Speaker 1>that was given to the nine newspapers doesn't really make

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<v Speaker 1>it clear whether Christine Holman was suggesting that Richard White

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<v Speaker 1>had been bullying her necessarily, but was observing his behavior

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<v Speaker 1>and characterizing it in that way. So there are still

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<v Speaker 1>a few unknowns about what could have happened. Wis Tech's board,

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<v Speaker 1>for its part, also hasn't commented on any of the claims,

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<v Speaker 1>but it did note that the media reports were coming

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<v Speaker 1>out about Richard White last week and that it was

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<v Speaker 1>looking into it.

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<v Speaker 2>So these massive stories have come out, We're now moving

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<v Speaker 2>and talking about the actual business itself. There must have

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<v Speaker 2>been some business impacts. Talk me through how the last

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<v Speaker 2>week was for wise Tech as a company.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so it was a very dramatic way on the

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.760
<v Speaker 1>stock exchange for them. So the company's stocks tanked. The

0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 1>more stories that came out about Richard White, the further

0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.439
<v Speaker 1>the share price fell. So at its low, the share

0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 1>price dropped about twenty five percent compared to the start

0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.600
<v Speaker 1>of the week, and it all built up into this

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.240
<v Speaker 1>big announcement. After a few days of these headlines where

0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Richard White announced that he was stepping down as the

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:27.040
<v Speaker 1>company's CEO, Wise Tech published quite a long statement on

0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.800
<v Speaker 1>the stock exchange after recognizing the media reports, where they

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.880
<v Speaker 1>confirmed that White would still work at the company and

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.800
<v Speaker 1>would start a new full time consulting role at wis

0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Tech after he took a little bit of time off

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 1>and he'll be paid a million dollars a year in

0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:48.080
<v Speaker 1>the job. What didn't address the allegations in the ASX announcement,

0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 1>but he said, quote, it has been a challenging time

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 1>for me personally, my family and close friends, and for

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.480
<v Speaker 1>the company that I have built and truly love.

0:13:59.240 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Share rallied quite substantially after Richard White announced that he

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 1>was stepping down. The share price bounce back about fourteen

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 1>percent in a day. It raises a really important question,

0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 1>and it goes back to what we had touched on

0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 1>just a little bit earlier, which was how much responsibility

0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.040
<v Speaker 1>does a company's founder added CEO have over the entire

0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>culture and the overall governance of a company, and how

0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.440
<v Speaker 1>much is left to the rest of the business. And

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.120
<v Speaker 1>I think it's going to be really interesting because wise

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Tech have an annual general meeting next month, and then

0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 1>there's also an investor day in December, and Richard White,

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>while he stepped down as CEO, he's still part of

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.280
<v Speaker 1>the company, and it's going to be interesting to see

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 1>whether wise Tech's big clients and shareholders will be satisfied

0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 1>with how the company have handled the allegations or whether

0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 1>the company is not in the cleue yet.

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.240
<v Speaker 2>What I find really interesting about the next couple of

0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.040
<v Speaker 2>weeks and months for wise Tech is the separation and

0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 2>the investigation that's going to need to happen. Between that

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.440
<v Speaker 2>question you ask about the founder's role in all of

0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.840
<v Speaker 2>this between personal responsibility and what he actually did and

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.640
<v Speaker 2>what else was happening at the culture of the company

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.600
<v Speaker 2>because of behavior modeled at the top. And there's nothing proven,

0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 2>there's been nothing publicly released. There's always needing to be

0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.280
<v Speaker 2>thorough investigations into all of this. But you have one

0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 2>of the biggest companies in Australia with a serious issue

0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.200
<v Speaker 2>that started with the founder of the company. This is

0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 2>a big end of town dealing with a very serious matter.

0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is a company that has offices all over

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 1>the world. Yeah, and yeah, you're right. Richard White's one

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.960
<v Speaker 1>legal case has been settled out of court now, so

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.200
<v Speaker 1>there's no other criminal proceedings or civil proceedings against him

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 1>as far as we know. And I think it's just

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 1>going to be so interesting to see the fallout, as

0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 1>I said, as the public learns more about White's alleged

0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:58.480
<v Speaker 1>past and his alleged misconduct as well. And there's definitely

0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.920
<v Speaker 1>something to be said about how you set the culture

0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.600
<v Speaker 1>at the top. And I think it is important because

0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.320
<v Speaker 1>ultimately I think we're in a world now where shareholders

0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 1>and customers expect a bit better.

0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Harry, thanks so much for joining us. Would appreciate if

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.600
<v Speaker 2>you kept us updated on this story as it evolves,

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and thank you for joining us on the Daily Ods

0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 2>this morning. I hope you're having a good start to

0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.760
<v Speaker 2>the week already. We'll be here with you every day

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.560
<v Speaker 2>this week, bringing you the big headlines. We're absolutely steamrolling

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 2>towards the US election. Make sure you tap in and

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<v Speaker 2>don't miss an episode as we bring you the latest

0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 2>headlines from the US. That's all we've got for you today,

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.440
<v Speaker 2>though we'll be back again tomorrow.

0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.680
<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:45.680
<v Speaker 1>Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.920
<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations.

0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 2>We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:57.240
<v Speaker 2>both past and present