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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Family's podcast.

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Speaker 2: I love that Valentine's just gives me this pretty big

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Speaker 2: kick up the bomb reminder.

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Speaker 1: But you love me, You're not the only person. Oh

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Speaker 1: it's not about me, Then you're not the only person.

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Speaker 1: And I think they're still hang on, what's going on here?

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Speaker 1: And now?

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Speaker 2: Here's the stars of our show, my mom and dad.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when you were at school, Kylie, and

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Speaker 1: this song would come on the radio? Were you were? You?

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Speaker 1: Were you born? Are you sufficiently old to have been,

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Speaker 1: like on a school bus on an excursion and here

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Speaker 1: John Paul Young singing love is in the Air.

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Speaker 2: I don't know in that context, but I definitely have

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Speaker 2: heard the song.

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Speaker 1: I remember that song coming on maybe when I was

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Speaker 1: in about grade three, grade four, heading off to a

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Speaker 1: school excursion. And as soon as it did, all the

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Speaker 1: kids just started. I mean, in today's parlance, kids would

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Speaker 1: say everyone started shipping one another. The shipping is like

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Speaker 1: where you say, oh, you've got the hots for this person.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, everyone was shipping everyone. And then all the

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Speaker 1: boys were lovers in there, they singing silly at the

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Speaker 1: back of the bars and pointing fingers at people who

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Speaker 1: were supposed to be love. It was grade three, grade four, right,

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Speaker 1: But this is that time. It's that time of year

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Speaker 1: where lovers in the air. It had to be you.

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Speaker 1: It had to be one week less than a week

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Speaker 1: next Tuesday, it's Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 2: Are you all sorted for Valentine's Day?

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Speaker 1: I haven't given it a moment's thought until we sat

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Speaker 1: down and started repairing this podcast, and I was only

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Speaker 1: thinking about it in the context of kids as well.

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Speaker 1: I haven't even you've asked me the question. I've just failed.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I've got five days to figure this out.

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Speaker 2: Have you have taken care of the wedding anniversary, so

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Speaker 2: I'll take the pressure off. I'll look after Philip.

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Speaker 1: Have you given it any thought? I have so given

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Speaker 1: it though, Yeah, you just saying that. No, really, you've

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Speaker 1: actually thought about Valentine's Day for us?

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Speaker 2: Yes, my gift cup, it is already sprouting.

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Speaker 1: Red really for us or for our kids? For us,

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Speaker 1: so we've got a big Valentine's tradition in our home

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Speaker 1: that will get too shortly that you do with our

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Speaker 1: kids every year. But you've actually thought about us. I

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Speaker 1: was just saying it because I'm incredulous. I haven't thought

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Speaker 1: about Valentine's Day this year at all.

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Speaker 2: I have been looking forward to Valentine's Day for quite

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Speaker 2: some time?

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Speaker 1: Really, so should I be excited about this now? Why

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Speaker 1: are you looking forward to it? Then? Because I'm going

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Speaker 1: to enjoy it? Right? Okay? Well, today's podcast is about

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Speaker 1: kids and Valentine's Should your kids have a Valentine? How

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Speaker 1: do they need to be before they start to talk

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Speaker 1: about Valentine's But it got me thinking, do you even

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Speaker 1: know where Valentine's Day comes from?

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Speaker 2: There's a person called Valentine?

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Speaker 1: Is that what it was?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's part of it. Do you know anymore? I've

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Speaker 1: literally just googled it. I haven't even read the paragraph

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Speaker 1: that describes it yet.

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Speaker 2: No, that's all I know.

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Speaker 1: I've lived my entire life not knowing who needs to

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Speaker 1: know and hating Valentine's Day. I've never really liked Valentine's

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Speaker 1: Day as a kid. I hated it because I was

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Speaker 1: I was just a reject at high school. Nobody would

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Speaker 1: nobody ever consider giving me a Valentine for Valentine's Date?

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Speaker 1: Did you keep one? I had some huge secret crashes

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Speaker 1: and I gave a few Valentines out over the years yere.

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Speaker 1: But I was that awkward, dorky kid that had no idea,

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Speaker 1: no idea how to approach a girl and say, will

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Speaker 1: you be my Valentine? I just used to slide things

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Speaker 1: into people's school bags and they'd get a secret Valentine

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Speaker 1: from me. And I have no idea that it was

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Speaker 1: from me, because if they knew it was from me,

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Speaker 1: it would have just it would have been shameful for them.

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Speaker 2: Well, the only time I remember, I don't even think

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Speaker 2: it was a Valentine's but it was a love letter.

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Speaker 2: There was a boy that I liked in grade six

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Speaker 2: and my friend and I got together one afternoon and

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Speaker 2: we practiced putting lipstick on and kissing the page because

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Speaker 2: there was this acronym swalk swork. Do you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean?

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Speaker 1: I've never heard of.

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Speaker 2: It sealed with a loving kiss ah swork? I see

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Speaker 2: stealed my envelope up and I kissed?

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Speaker 1: You swarked him? I did? Right? Did he know that

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Speaker 1: it was from you?

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Speaker 2: He did?

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Speaker 1: And did you get got.

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Speaker 2: Mocked A lot?

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Speaker 1: You got mockd Yes, you never swalked again. I've never

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Speaker 1: been sworn.

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Speaker 2: I never wrote another letter like that.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever receive Valentine's No. Look at that, two rejects,

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Speaker 1: and we end up together. You choose me, me Valentine's

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Speaker 1: Birds of a Feather, honey Birds. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to whether or not Valentine's a good thing or

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Speaker 1: a bad thing, especially when it comes to kids. I

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Speaker 1: have a feeling we're gonna have different opinions on this.

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Speaker 1: It's just a feeling that I've got. We haven't talked

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Speaker 1: about it ahead of time, but Valentine's Day, I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna put it out there, uber commercialized, absolute rubbish. I

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Speaker 1: just don't like it, especially for kids. So I did

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Speaker 1: a little bit of research and thought it was worth

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Speaker 1: just highlighting where Valentine's Day comes from. This is what

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Speaker 1: I found about the history of Saint Valentine's Day. No

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Speaker 1: one has actually been able to pinpoint the exact origin

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Speaker 1: of the holiday, but it seems that ancient Rome is

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Speaker 1: where it may have begun. Check this out. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: Roman celebrations were not celebrations like we have today. Roman celebrations,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to ours, where we get excited and everyone's

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Speaker 1: kind to one another, they were kind of violent. I

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Speaker 1: mean even now, one of the Greek celebratory things to

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Speaker 1: do with smash plates, right, that's kind of my big

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Speaker 1: fat Greek wedding sort of thing. But the Roman celebrations

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Speaker 1: feasted at this time called Lubecalia between February thirteen and fifteen.

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Speaker 1: The men sacrificed a goat and a dog. Then they

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Speaker 1: whipped women with the hides of the animals that they

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Speaker 1: just slain.

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Speaker 2: The romantic I don't think I like this celebration.

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Speaker 1: No, no, I'm so glad we don't do Valentine's a

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Speaker 1: day like. But maybe we'd stop doing Valentine's if that's

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Speaker 1: what we were still doing. Let's sacrifice some animals and

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Speaker 1: whip each other with their hides. The Roman romantics were drunk,

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Speaker 1: they were naked. Noel Lensky and now a religious studies

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Speaker 1: professor at Yale University, said young women would line up

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Speaker 1: for the men to hit them. They believed that this

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Speaker 1: would make them fertile. In addition to that, there was

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Speaker 1: a matchmaking lottery in which young men drew the names

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Speaker 1: of women from a jar. The couple would then be

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Speaker 1: how do I say, coupled up for the duration of

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Speaker 1: the festival, or maybe even longer if the match was right.

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Speaker 1: The ancient Romans may also be responsible for the name

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Speaker 1: of our modern day of love. Emperor Claudius the Second

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Speaker 1: executed two men both named Valentine, on February fourteen of

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Speaker 1: different years in the third century. There martyrdom was honored

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Speaker 1: by the Catholic Church with the celebration of Saint Valentine's Day,

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Speaker 1: so things sort of spread out After that. The Norman

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Speaker 1: celebrated Gallaton's Day. Gallaton meant lover of women, which was

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Speaker 1: likely confused with Saint Valentine's Day. I could go on

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Speaker 1: and on. History is fascinating and so violent. I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad we live today and not back then. But that's

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Speaker 1: where Valentine's Day came from. In other words, it's got

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with anything that we do today for

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Speaker 1: Saint Valentine's Day. Kylie, my question for you is directing

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Speaker 1: kids should be celebrating Valentine's Day, whether it's whipping people

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Speaker 1: with hides of animals or handing out chocolates and roses.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts? Are you a Valentine's Day fan?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that it's.

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Speaker 2: I am totally a valentine Stay fan.

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Speaker 1: Ask me what I think.

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Speaker 2: I know what you think.

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Speaker 1: Ask me anyway, what do you think?

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Speaker 2: We are in total agreement that Valentine's Day has become

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Speaker 2: this commercial like, over commercialized day of celebration. And for

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Speaker 2: the most part, it's quite trite.

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Speaker 1: And I think it is. I think it's empty, it's vacuous,

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Speaker 1: it's fetishized, it's romanticized, and it's got nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with real life. It's a strong opinion, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well no, because I think all of the different celebrations

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Speaker 2: we have can be seen in exactly the same way.

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Speaker 2: Christmas can be seen as over commercialized if all we

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Speaker 2: do is focus on, you know this, the externality abundance

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Speaker 2: of gift giving. And so for me, I love that

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Speaker 2: Valentine's just gives me this pretty big kick up the

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Speaker 2: bum reminder that you love me. You're not the only person.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's not about me, Damn, You're not the only person.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the else hang on, what's going

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Speaker 1: on here? This is where I.

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Speaker 2: Think Valentine's Days is a wonderful opportunity to help our

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Speaker 2: children recognize and learn the art of expressing love to others.

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Speaker 2: Because I use Valentine's Day to express love to my children,

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Speaker 2: I spend Valentine's Day expressing love to you. They're all

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Speaker 2: different expressions of love, but it just gives you a framework.

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Speaker 2: We shouldn't need one, but in the lifestyle that we

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Speaker 2: live and the fast paced lives that we live, I

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Speaker 2: think that it's great to just have a day that's

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Speaker 2: designated to be grateful for the loving relationships that we

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Speaker 2: have in our lives, because there's plenty of relationships that

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Speaker 2: aren't can.

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Speaker 1: Be close to. It's a Happy Families podcast, the podcast

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Speaker 1: of the time for parent who just wants answers. Now, So, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: should kids be celebrating Valentine's Day?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Yes or not? Just just straight up yes or not?

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Speaker 1: That depends, Yeah, okay, all right. Should kids between the

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Speaker 1: ages of let's say, I don't know, zero and eight

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Speaker 1: be celebrating Valentine's Day?

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Speaker 2: Not in the true sense? No?

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Speaker 1: When should kids start to celebrate Valentine's Day in the

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Speaker 1: true sense with a romantic interest, with a flame, with

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Speaker 1: some kind of The later the better, Right? So what's

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Speaker 1: that eighteen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Right, it's so funny.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that I love a.

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Speaker 1: Lot, I say for kids when they're eighteen.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, I have loved and the

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Speaker 2: kids have enjoyed doing it with me each year, especially

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Speaker 2: in those younger years, prepped to probably year three, I

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Speaker 2: can push it too, right. They just make a little

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Speaker 2: hand out for the whole class. It's not about exclusivity.

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Speaker 2: It's about just an acknowledgment. I'm so glad that we're friends.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you're saying that for young kids, Valentine's Day

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Speaker 1: is an expression of gratitude. Could be cool, and I've

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Speaker 1: seen what happens. So there's two traditions that we have

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Speaker 1: in our home that you've completely taken ownership of because

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Speaker 1: I won't be part of it. The first is that,

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Speaker 1: and I actually do really like this. First one, you

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Speaker 1: create a beautiful Valentine's lunch for the kids. They go

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Speaker 1: to school with everything pink and red and Valentine's Ish

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Speaker 1: in their lunchbox, like cupcake. They've got red grapes, they've

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Speaker 1: got strawberries, just a whole lot of reddish.

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Speaker 2: And tish shaped sandwich.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. You've even got the little thing that

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Speaker 1: gets rid of the crust and throws it in and

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Speaker 1: the kids get a heart shaped ham sandwich because Ham's

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Speaker 1: pink as well. So you do that, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's really beautiful to.

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Speaker 2: Let the kids know you think may get a little

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Speaker 2: love letter from me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, on a special day. But you also have often

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Speaker 1: sent the kids to school with a bag full of

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Speaker 1: Valentine's gifts for the entire class.

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Speaker 2: And I think that you make it sound abundant. It's

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Speaker 2: not really.

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Speaker 1: You think it's a bit extra. It might just be

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Speaker 1: a lollipop for everyone in the class. But I've read

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Speaker 1: and heard of some schools who are stopping Valentine's, especially

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Speaker 1: in primary school. They're just saying, that's too much, we

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Speaker 1: don't want it. It's causing too many dramas.

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Speaker 2: And well, I think it does. When you think about

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Speaker 2: your experience, you think about my experience, and we talk

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Speaker 2: about this exclusivity in expressing love towards one person or

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Speaker 2: an attraction towards one person, then there's a real risk

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Speaker 2: that for those that are on the outer they get

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Speaker 2: left behind.

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Speaker 1: You're dealing with and this was what I dealt with

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Speaker 1: all through school. Not that I think that I've been

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Speaker 1: traumatized by it. Maybe it was good for me. Who

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Speaker 1: knows unrequited love, this feeling of rejection. I remember once

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Speaker 1: in grade three, I went to give Bobby McMinn a

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Speaker 1: heart shaped necklace. Yeah, I went to give her a

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Speaker 1: heart shaped necklace that i'd bought. I mean, it must

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Speaker 1: have cost me all of fourteen dollars, but I saved

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Speaker 1: that thing for weeks because I had such a big

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Speaker 1: second or third grade crush on Bobby mcmin And as

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Speaker 1: I was giving it to her to say, and.

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Speaker 2: She got better seals than I did.

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Speaker 1: Stop it, stop it, say things like that. As I

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Speaker 1: went to give it to us, somebody who sort of

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Speaker 1: walked into our interaction and I remember snatching it back

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Speaker 1: off her and saying, give me that. What have you

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Speaker 1: got that for? Because I didn't wan anyone to see

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Speaker 1: that I was trying to give Bobby mcmahn this this

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Speaker 1: romantic gift. But there's a lot to be said around

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Speaker 1: Valentine's and inclusivity, right Like, some schools are understandably saying

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Speaker 1: no because some kids feel deeply rejected on Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 1: They have that unrequited, unreturned love. It really hurts. I

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Speaker 1: don't like it. I just don't like it.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm on board with you when it comes

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Speaker 2: to high school. I think that I have watched too

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Speaker 2: many Valentine's Days go.

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Speaker 1: Wrong, hair shaped, yeah, yeah, And but of course you

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Speaker 1: can't stop it in high school. The kids are big

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Speaker 1: enough by then to kind of so a.

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Speaker 2: Couple of things I have seen in the past which

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Speaker 2: I have really thought was a great stance from a

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Speaker 2: school perspective. The senior boys, for instance, would actually purchase

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Speaker 2: enough roses for the whole cohort girls, and every girl

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Speaker 2: would be given a rose. Okay, And I think that

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Speaker 2: that's really nice, that whole that it's just the it's

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Speaker 2: just the idea of being thought of. And I think again,

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Speaker 2: I don't buy into the exclusivity, nor do I buy

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Speaker 2: into the commercialism of it. I just think it we're

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Speaker 2: often so restrained in our ability to express our feelings,

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Speaker 2: and I just love the notion of helping all of

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Speaker 2: us kind of get out of side of ourselves and

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Speaker 2: be a little bit vulnerable and share.

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Speaker 1: You know what. I hadn't thought of it from that

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Speaker 1: point of view, and I do like that so long

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Speaker 1: as it's done carefully. I still think that we can

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Speaker 1: run into trouble with things like consent. That is, where

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Speaker 1: where somebody may awkwardly and terribly uncomfortably approach somebody else

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Speaker 1: and lead leave them feeling uncomfortable as well. I can

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Speaker 1: imagine that over the course of history there have been

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Speaker 1: some very uncomfortable Valentine's moments where people haven't quite understood boundaries,

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Speaker 1: or they've pushed a little bit too hard, a little

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Speaker 1: bit too far, and trying to express themselves and trying

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Speaker 1: to be vulnerable, and it's left the recipient, let's assume

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Speaker 1: a standard heterosexual interaction, it's left maybe the girl feeling

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Speaker 1: quite uncomfortable because the boy has been awkward and perhaps

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Speaker 1: a little bit excessive in his expressions of adoration, love

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Speaker 1: and saying please be my Valentine Day, my Valentine's Day,

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Speaker 1: or my heart will be broken and I won't be

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Speaker 1: able to live, you know what I mean? Like, I

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Speaker 1: can see those kinds of things going in some fairly

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Speaker 1: awkward ways. My take on it is, I don't think

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Speaker 1: that we should be encouraging romantic interactions with young kids

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Speaker 1: full stop into story. As kids get older, they start

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Speaker 1: to explore those kinds of interactions, and hopefully they're doing

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Speaker 1: it an age appropriate and developmentally appropriate time and in

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Speaker 1: the right way. But I tend to discourage strong expressions

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Speaker 1: of Valentine love on days like this, But I do

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Speaker 1: like your vulnerability piece. Well.

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Speaker 2: I think that's where the Red lunch Box has really

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Speaker 2: helped our kids Valentine's Day. They're anticipating, they're counting down

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Speaker 2: the days. They know that Valentine's Day is Tuesday, and

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Speaker 2: they can't wait for the lunch box. That's the highlight

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Speaker 2: of their day. They're not actually focused on the external.

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Speaker 2: It's internal for them. And I love that, and I

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Speaker 2: love that what could be a really anxious and awkward

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Speaker 2: space for them is one of celebration because they recognize

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Speaker 2: and know that Mum's going to let them know how

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Speaker 2: much she loves them.

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Speaker 1: And that is my favorite part of Valentine's Day in

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Speaker 1: our family because you don't have to do with it kindom.

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Speaker 1: That's right, you know what I might. I might send

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Speaker 1: them a little love note in melunchbox this year. I'll

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Speaker 1: think about it anyway, food for thought. As we move

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Speaker 1: toward Valentine's date, it's worth having a conversation with the

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Speaker 1: kids in the next few days, find out if they've

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Speaker 1: got a Valentine in mind, how they plan on spending

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Speaker 1: it might take home message really, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: i've touched on this sufficiently, although perhaps it's been implicit,

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Speaker 1: and much of what we've talked about is this. If

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Speaker 1: your kids are interested in Valentine's Day, if they do

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Speaker 1: want to express romantic interests and affections on this day,

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Speaker 1: I think it's important that we talk to them, male

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Speaker 1: or female, regardless of the target of their affection, talk

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Speaker 1: to them about ways that they can express their interests

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Speaker 1: so that the recipient of their affection is flattered and

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Speaker 1: built up, is elevated by it. We want this to

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Speaker 1: be a positive experience, not an awkward Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe how embarrassing that was. Let's mock somebody

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Speaker 1: because they got it all wrong.

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Speaker 2: So in light of that, my suggestion is the school

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Speaker 2: playground's probably not the place to express those feelings.

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Speaker 1: That's probably where it's going to happen, though, So I

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Speaker 1: think that's why these conversations matter so much. It's worth

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Speaker 1: having the chat this weekend. Hey, have you got a

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Speaker 1: Valentine in mind? What are you going to do about it?

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Speaker 1: How can you do it in such way that they

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable and you get to express yourself in a

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Speaker 1: way that feels good to you. To me, that's the

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Speaker 1: conversation and hopefully your kids are going to say no,

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Speaker 1: I don't have one, and no I'm not interested in it,

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Speaker 1: and then you don't have to worry about it. But

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Speaker 1: if they do, it opens up the door to some

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Speaker 1: I think, really important conversations.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm looking forward to continuing the tradition in our house.

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Speaker 2: The love heart cookie cutters are all ready to go.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait for Valentine's Day. You've given me something

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Speaker 1: to look forward to, and I'm hoping that it's not

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Speaker 1: just a love heart sandwich, although if that's all it is,

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Speaker 1: I'll still be grateful. The Happy Family's podcast is produced

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Speaker 1: by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our

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Speaker 1: executive producer. If you'd like more information about making your

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Speaker 1: family happier, we'd love for you to join us in

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Speaker 1: our Happy Families. Membership memberships are from as little as

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Speaker 1: thirteen dollars a month. Our premier membership is eighteen dollars

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Speaker 1: a month. You can get an annual membership and get

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Speaker 1: two months free by paying upfront. So much value there.

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Speaker 1: Please please take a look at it. I think you're

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Speaker 1: gonna love it. Otherwise, visit us at Happy families, dot com,

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Speaker 1: dot au i LinkedIn, suddenlyhead of it,