1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily. 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 2: Ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, the fifteenth of January. 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 2: I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fitz Simon's books by popular 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: Australian author Craig Sylvie have been pulled from shelves in 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: Western Australian schools after the forty three year old author 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: was charged with child exploitation. Several of Sylvie's books, including 8 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: Runt and Jasper Jones, are studied by students in schools 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: around the country, but following a raid on his home 10 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 2: on Monday, the WA Education Minister has ordered state schools 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: not to use texts by the author in classrooms this 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: year while the allegations against him are investigated. Today we'll 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: explain who Craig Sylvie is, the charges against him, and 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: how schools are respect Before we get into it, just 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 2: a heads up that today's episode discusses distressing themes. Listener 16 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: discretion is advised. 17 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 3: Emma, Do you want to start by just explaining who 18 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 3: Craig Sylvie is. 19 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, he is one of Australia's most prominent authors. If 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 2: you haven't heard of him. There is a good chance 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: you've read one of his books, or heard of one 22 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: of his books, or watched it in a film adaptation. 23 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 2: So we're talking about critically acclaimed titles like Rhubarb, Runt, 24 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: Jasper Jones and Honeybee. Craig Sylvie has won multiple awards 25 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: for those books, both here in Australia and overseas. And 26 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: his book Runt was turned into a movie just in 27 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four of the same name, and his two 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: thousand and nine book Jasper Jones was also made into 29 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: a film and stage production. 30 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: He is such a popular author in Australia. A few 31 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 3: of us in the office or study Jasper Jones at school. Yeah, 32 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 3: I know we'll get into because it is a very 33 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 3: popular book in the education system. 34 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 3: And so the reason we're talking about him is because 36 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 3: he was arrested this week. 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: So what was he arrested for. 38 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, On Tuesday afternoon we learned from WA Police that 39 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: a forty three year old man had been arrested in 40 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: Fremantle on Monday. We now know that man is the 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: author Craig Sylvie. During a raid of his home on Monday, 42 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: police alleged Sylvie was caught engaging with child exploitation offenders online. 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: And so just to be clear, police are saying that 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 3: when they raided his home, he was mid some form 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: of child exploitation. So he was kind of their saying, 46 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 3: allegedly caught in the act. 47 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is what the allegations say at the moment. 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: In a statement, WA Police said that he was immediately 49 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: arrested and his electronic devices were seized. Sylvie was allegedly 50 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: talking to someone online and during that conversation he expressed 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: a sexual interest in children, according to police. Investigators also 52 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: claim that there was evidence of image sharing in that conversation. So, 53 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: following the raid on his home, Sylvie was charged with 54 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 2: possessing and distributing child exploitation material between January seven and 55 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: January nine. 56 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: So this all. 57 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 3: Relates to child exploitation material. Do you want to just 58 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 3: explain what that means? 59 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: Yes, So, in Western Australia, where Sylvie was arrested and 60 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: where he'll face court, child exploitation material refers to any material, 61 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: including images, video, writings, or data, that depicts or describes 62 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: a person who is under sixteen in a sexual context, 63 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: or being subjected to abuse or cruelty. So again, there 64 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: is a lot we don't know about the specifics of 65 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: the charges against Sylvie, but he's been charged with distributing 66 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: and possessing this kind of material distribution is a more 67 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: serious charge. 68 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: It should be noted. 69 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 3: Okay, So he was arrested and charged earlier this week. 70 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: When this story first broke, there was a lot that 71 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 3: we didn't know, but now there's been more time we 72 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: have learnt a little bit more about these allegations in 73 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 3: the days since. 74 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, so we know now that Sylvie appeared in 75 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 2: the Fremantle Magistrates Court on Tuesday. No police were entered 76 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: during that hearing, but the ABC did have a reporter 77 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: inside the courtroom at the time and according to their report, 78 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: the police prosecutor told the court that Sylvie was not 79 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: cooperating with investigators. Police are alleging the author refused to 80 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: grant detective's access to his devices, so that included his 81 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: mobile phone and computer, and as a result of this 82 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: alleged non compliance, police opposed bail for Sylvie, so they 83 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 2: told the court they did not believe that he should 84 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: be released from police custody. The prosecutor, again, according to 85 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: the ABC, said Sylvie quote may hinder the investigation and 86 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: describe him as a flight risk. Now that means police 87 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: are concerned that if he's released from custody, he might 88 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 2: flee the state or the country as he awaits further proceedings. 89 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 3: Which would be illegal. Yes, so was Sylvie in the 90 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 3: end granted bail. 91 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: He actually was granted bail despite the wishes of the 92 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: police prosecutors. But interestingly, he did spend Tuesday night in 93 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 2: police custody after being granted bail, and that was because 94 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,119 Speaker 2: he didn't meet his bail conditions. Sylvie was granted bail 95 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: with something called a surety as well as a personal undertaking. 96 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 2: Now that means he was ordered to put forward one 97 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars of his own money to secure bail, 98 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: but he also needed a one hundred thousand dollars surety, 99 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: meaning someone else needed to put forward money, basically vouching 100 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: for Sylvie. Now, the court defines this surety as a 101 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 2: person who enters into a legally enforceable agreement to forfeit 102 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,559 Speaker 2: a specific amount of money, in this case one hundred 103 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 2: grand if the person they are standing surety for in 104 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: this case, Sylvie fails to appear at court. So if 105 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: for whatever reason the accused breaches bail conditions, they leave 106 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: the state or country, they miss a hearing, that surety 107 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 2: amount gets forfeited. Now, at the time of recording, it's 108 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 2: not clear if Sylvie is still in custody, but we 109 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: know that he could not meet those conditions on Tuesday night, 110 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 2: got it okay? 111 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 3: And you mentioned that we don't yet know how Sylvie 112 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 3: will plead to these charges. Sometimes in these cases we 113 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 3: would hear from a lawyer on whether or not they are. 114 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: Claiming to be innocent or not. We haven't heard anything right. 115 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: At the time of recording. That's right, we haven't heard anything. 116 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: We don't know how Sylvie will plead, And of course 117 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: it should be noted this is an ongoing investigation and 118 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: Sylvie does have a legal right to presumed innocence and 119 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: a fair trial. That means that the prosecution must prove 120 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 2: the charges against him beyond reasonable doubt. That will matter 121 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: if he pleads not guilty. It'll be a different situation 122 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: if he pleads guilty. 123 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 3: And what I said before about many of his books 124 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 3: are very popular in Australia's education system, and I know 125 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 3: the WA Department of Education has weighed in on Sylvie's arrest. 126 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: What did they say? 127 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a really interesting aspect of this story, 128 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: and quite an unusual one. The core texts or recommended 129 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: texts that students study in high schools and primary schools 130 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: across the country is determined on a state by state basis, 131 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: but in Wa at least we do know that Sylvie's 132 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: books are included in the curriculums of some of its 133 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: subjects for some students. Now, the Daily Os did reach 134 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: out to the Education Minister there, Sabine Winton, and she 135 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: called the nature of the allegations against Sylvie deeply concerning. 136 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: Wynton confirmed that Jasper Jones and Rubab, two books by 137 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: Craig Sylvie that are included in a list of texts 138 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: that students might study in Year eleven and twelve literature 139 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: or in general English courses, that they would be removed 140 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 2: this year for study. So in light of the charges 141 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: against the Winton has asked the Department of Education to 142 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: quote ensure that schools cease using texts by Craig Sylvie 143 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: for the twenty twenty six school year while the allegations 144 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: are under investigation. Now there are some Year twelve students 145 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: in Wa who may have already studied Sylvie's books in 146 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: previous years for literature studies. The Education Minister confirmed they 147 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 2: will not be penalized if they refer to those texts 148 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: in their exams later this year. 149 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: Do we know if any other states will follow suit? Well? 150 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: I did look into this on Wednesday morning and Runt, 151 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: which is a very famous book by Craig Sylvie, was 152 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: included as a Level four English Core text in Victoria. 153 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: But when I checked the list again a few hours 154 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: later on Wednesday afternoon, Runt had actually been removed from 155 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: that document. So I reached out to the Victorian Department 156 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: of Education and a spokesperson told TDA that Sylvie's texts 157 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 2: have been removed from the Victorian Lessons plans and are 158 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: not on any VCE English or literature lists. So VCE 159 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: is the year eleven and twelve program for school leavers 160 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: in Victoria. The spokesperson also said that Sylvie's books quote 161 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: will not feature in the twenty twenty six Premieres Reading Challenge. 162 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 3: Okay, so what are the next steps here? I presume 163 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 3: there's a trial that will happen. 164 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: Well, Sylvie is scheduled to appear in court next on 165 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: the tenth of February, so we've got to wait a 166 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: couple more weeks till we learn more about the future 167 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: of this case. We have heard from his publisher, Alan 168 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: and Aunwin. It said it was aware of the allegations, 169 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: which are called deeply distressing, and said the publishing house 170 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: would pause promotional activity of Sylvie's work while the legal 171 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: process takes its course. I did have a quick browse 172 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: online across a few major book retailers, so some retailers, 173 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: including Dimicks and QBD Books have actually removed Sylvie's titles 174 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: from their websites now. In terms of the penalties that 175 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: Sylvie's facing for these child exploitations chargers in wa Specifically, 176 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: a person found guilty of possession of child exploitation material 177 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: could face seven to ten years behind bars, and distributing 178 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: child exploitation material carries a penalty of ten years jail time. Sylvie, 179 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: we know is facing two counts, so that could mean 180 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: a longer penalty or that those sentences are stacked if 181 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: he is found guilty, and the magistrate who granted him 182 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: bail did say that imprisonment is a likely outcome, but 183 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: investigations are continuing. We will continue to keep you guys 184 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 2: updated as we learn more about this case. 185 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, a very disturbing case. I mean, I've read so 186 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 3: many of his books and it's something that you just 187 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 3: never expect to read about such a popular author. 188 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: Emma, thank you for taking us through that. 189 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 3: Thank you, Billy, and thank you for listening to today's episode. 190 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 3: If it has raised any issues with you, help is available. 191 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 3: You can call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen or the 192 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 3: Kids Helpline on one eight hundred fifty five one eight hundred. 193 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 3: We'll be back with your evening news headlines a little 194 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 3: later on, but until then, have a good day. 195 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 196 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: Bungelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl Country. 197 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 198 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 3: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to. 199 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: All Aboriginal and Torres s right island and nations. 200 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 3: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 201 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 3: both past and present.