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Speaker 1: Now. Yesterday on the show, we spoke extensively about the

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Speaker 1: stabbing at the Royal Darwin Show, with the alleged defender

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Speaker 1: now in custody. The situation saw the Chief Minister take

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Speaker 1: aim at apologists, who she says have come out against

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Speaker 1: her governments focused on reducing crime. She said this is

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Speaker 1: not normal, it is not acceptable, and she says under

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Speaker 1: her government it will not be tolerated. Now this week

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Speaker 1: in Parliament, the Government is going to be changing the

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Speaker 1: Youth Justice Act to end what they say was the

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Speaker 1: former government's failed catch and release scheme. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: on the show is the Opposition leader, Selena Ubo. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you, Selena.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie now Opposition Leader.

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Speaker 1: The situation at the show was appalling. What was your

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Speaker 1: reaction to that stabbing incident on the weekend, Oh, Katie.

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Speaker 3: The incident at the show and the stabbing of the

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Speaker 3: fifteen year old is absolutely shocking and I think almost

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Speaker 3: every Terrritorian was completely shocked by that. Because we love

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Speaker 3: our show, we know that the show circuit goes right

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Speaker 3: across the Northern Territory. It's a really great way to

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Speaker 3: be out and about and enjoy the community. For families,

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Speaker 3: for individuals, for organizations, for businesses, etc. And to have

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Speaker 3: such a shocking and horrific event occur at the show

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Speaker 3: here in Darwin, I think many Territorians are absolutely gobsmacked.

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Speaker 3: And of course my thoughts are with that fifteen year

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Speaker 3: old who I understand is still in hospital. I haven't

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Speaker 3: heard an update on his condition, but of course, you know,

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Speaker 3: heart goes out and my thoughts go out to his

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Speaker 3: family as well while they wait hopefully some better news

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Speaker 3: about his condition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Look, it was terrifying. I know a number of teenagers

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Speaker 1: who were there on the weekend. I've had a number

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Speaker 1: of parents contact us here at the station utterly appalled

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Speaker 1: by what had happened, but really very frightened by what

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Speaker 1: happened as well. Now, as a result, the Chief Minister

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Speaker 1: yesterday came out and said that that is why they're

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Speaker 1: introducing legislation aimed at youth offending this week to the

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Speaker 1: Parliament on Urgency Now. Those changes include courts now able

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Speaker 1: to consider a youth's ful criminal history when sentencing for

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Speaker 1: adult offenses, removing detention as a last resort, so courts

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Speaker 1: no longer need to exhaust all alternatives before remanding a youth,

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Speaker 1: stronger powers for Youth Justice officers to use anti spit

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Speaker 1: guards and reasonable force to maintain safety and prevent escapes,

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Speaker 1: as well as expanded powers for the Commissioner to manage

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Speaker 1: emergencies aligning with the Correctional Services Act. Opposition leader, do

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Speaker 1: you support the changes?

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Speaker 3: Katie? We got a urgent briefing from the government yesterday

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Speaker 3: to understand what the amendments, partly what the amendments of

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Speaker 3: the changes to the Youth Justice Act will look like.

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Speaker 3: We're still to see a bill we were not provided.

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Speaker 3: Actually we were refused to see a copy of that

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Speaker 3: bill to be able to do our homework and ready

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Speaker 3: for today we're going into Parliament. A sorry, ten Am,

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Speaker 3: we still haven't received a copy of that bill, so

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Speaker 3: assume we will have that circulated once the minister start talking.

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Speaker 3: So what did they.

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Speaker 2: Actually give you yesterday? Just a briefing with some.

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Speaker 3: Briefing, Yeah, briefing with some of the information, but ultimately

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Speaker 3: we weren't able to scrutinize the bill. We know it's

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Speaker 3: an important job to do when we've got less than

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Speaker 3: twenty four hours to see what those changes are. We

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Speaker 3: were talked through those changes. We'll provided with a fact

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Speaker 3: sheet from the Corrections Commissioner, which was helpful, but ultimately

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Speaker 3: we still don't know the detail of the bill which

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Speaker 3: is being brought in today. We understand yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean based on what I've read out though,

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Speaker 1: in terms of courts considering your youth's full criminal history

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Speaker 1: when sentencing for our old defenses, removing detention as the

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Speaker 1: last resort, stronger powers for Youth Justice Act officers, as

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Speaker 1: well as the expanded powers for the Commissioner. I mean,

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Speaker 1: on the face of those changes, do you support those

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Speaker 1: or are the elements that you're concerned with?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Katie, some of the changes will be things that

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Speaker 3: the community have asked for and we'll definitely agree with

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Speaker 3: and we completely understand that again, when we see all

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Speaker 3: of the detail that was when we can make that

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Speaker 3: fully informed decision when it comes to justice. We know

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Speaker 3: we want to see those consequences here in the community.

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Speaker 3: We don't ever want to see horrific incidences write what

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Speaker 3: was experienced at the Darwin Show on the weekend. But

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Speaker 3: we also want to see what are the other mechanisms

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Speaker 3: for prevention and early intervention for young people. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's really the part that's missing. I think people

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Speaker 3: want to see the consequences, but they want to see

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Speaker 3: what's going to change that young person's behavior, what's going

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Speaker 3: to support them to never do or to never enter

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Speaker 3: the justice system, or if they're in there, how do

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Speaker 3: we make sure that that young person changes their behavior

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Speaker 3: before they're let out again? And think that's ultimately the

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Speaker 3: big risk here is not having the those preventions attached

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Speaker 3: to these changes that we're going to be looking at

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Speaker 3: later today.

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Speaker 2: I think they're really fair.

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Speaker 1: Like that's a really fair point to make in terms

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Speaker 1: of when you know, when you've got youths in the

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Speaker 1: justice system, making sure that they don't come out better offenders,

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Speaker 1: we are out of the danger.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we don't want to see that.

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Speaker 1: We are going to be catching up with the Corrections

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Speaker 1: Commissioner in just a little while, So we'll put those

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Speaker 1: questions to here in terms of those courts now being

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Speaker 1: able to consider a youthful criminal history when sentencing for

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Speaker 1: adult offenses, is that something that you support.

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Speaker 3: Well, again, what we've seen or what we've heard through

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Speaker 3: that very small briefing yesterday, I think this is something

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Speaker 3: that's come from the community. We understand that making sure

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Speaker 3: that whatever changes are made through the amendments to the

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Speaker 3: Act for the Youth Justice Act do reflect the course

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Speaker 3: people talk about community expectations, but making sure that they

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Speaker 3: are implemented through those processes of the justice system. So

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Speaker 3: we want to make sure we can understand the whole

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Speaker 3: picture of their cade and we're hoping to do that

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Speaker 3: once we get a copy of the bill.

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Speaker 1: All right, So is because I thought that it had

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Speaker 1: been reported by the ABC that you didn't support the changes.

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Speaker 1: So I guess what I'm trying to just wrap my

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Speaker 1: head around is what maybe you do support or what

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Speaker 1: exactly you don't support.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, like I said, Katie, we've seen some

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Speaker 3: of the elements of the bill, we haven't actually seen

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Speaker 3: the bill. We want to make sure that we can

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Speaker 3: thoroughly do our job in opposition when things are brought

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Speaker 3: in on urgency, you know, we're sort of chasing our tail. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: and in the past, you know, as we've spoken, Katie,

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Speaker 3: you opposition has blindly supported urgent legislation because again of

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Speaker 3: a horrific incident that occurred earlier this year. We don't

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Speaker 3: want to be put in a position where all members

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Speaker 3: of Parliament are constantly chasing their tail and not doing

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Speaker 3: that at our jobs properly for territorians and looking at legislation.

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Speaker 3: This is law for every single Territorian, looking at legislation

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Speaker 3: that comes through the Parliament, whether it's new or whether

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Speaker 3: it's changes, so we can do our job. We can

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Speaker 3: ask those questions. We can make sure that every piece

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Speaker 3: of the puzzle fits well and if it doesn't, then

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Speaker 3: we can do our job and ask the questions of

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Speaker 3: why certain things in a bill or in a law

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Speaker 3: are being changed or not changed. Ye, And we just

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Speaker 3: we can't do that if we don't see the information

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Speaker 3: and so raise concerns and we're hearing things secondhand. We

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Speaker 3: were told we were offered a briefing through the media,

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Speaker 3: we actually had to wait and then push for that.

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Speaker 3: So we want to make sure that everything that goes

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Speaker 3: through the Territory Parliament is properly scrutinized. And at the

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Speaker 3: moment we can't do our job because we're not getting

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Speaker 3: that opportunity as members of Parliament.

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Speaker 1: So at this point in time, until you can see

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Speaker 1: that bill, until you're actually able to go through it,

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Speaker 1: you're not prepared to say whether you support it or

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Speaker 1: whether you oppose it.

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Speaker 3: Not till I see the black and white because ultimately, Katie,

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Speaker 3: as we know, that's what the courts are going to decipher,

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Speaker 3: that's what they interpret. That's their job. You can't make

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Speaker 3: a decision based on a concept. You have to see

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Speaker 3: what I know you do under them. But it's just

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Speaker 3: quite quite pressurizing in that sense, because we do want

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Speaker 3: to come out with a fulsome and wholesome response, but

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Speaker 3: we can't do that when we don't see all the information.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I suppose the reason I was trying to pin

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Speaker 1: you down and find out what exactly the goal is

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Speaker 1: is because as I said on the ABC, they were

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Speaker 1: reporting that you don't support the changes, So I was

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Speaker 1: trying to give the.

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Speaker 3: Okay. And one of those areas that I was asked

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Speaker 3: about yesterday, particularly from the ABC, was the reintroduction of spithood.

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Speaker 3: So obviously we had a Royal Commission here in the

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Speaker 3: territory and there were a huge amount of recommendations from

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Speaker 3: that that work was ongoing. We haven't heard an update

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Speaker 3: from the cop government of where that's at, but they're

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Speaker 3: bringing back that element. So again, it's about having the

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Speaker 3: whole picture so we can make an informed decision. We

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Speaker 3: can do our job and scrutinize the legislation and make

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Speaker 3: sure that we're taking on the information from community what

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Speaker 3: they want us to add.

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Speaker 2: That's fair enough. I think that's fair enough to go to.

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Speaker 1: I think it's fair enough to go through everything thoroughly

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Speaker 1: and then choose your position in terms of the spi hoods.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that you're opposed to?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think in terms of you know, we haven't

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Speaker 3: even had the opportunity to ask Corrections officers or Youth

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Speaker 3: Justice officers themselves of what they want because we've got

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Speaker 3: less than twenty four hours to do our job in

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Speaker 3: such an important space. If this is something the officers

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Speaker 3: are asking for or calling for, I know some of

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Speaker 3: the practices have changed. I know some of the equipment

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Speaker 3: around spit hoods and bidguards have changed. I think more

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Speaker 3: information from frontline officers is really important.

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Speaker 2: This is I've seen them.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen those spit guards because I was spitguard.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's completely changed from the spit hoods and that

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Speaker 3: was completely different and new information for me that was

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Speaker 3: shared yesterday and that briefing that I mentioned. So that's

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Speaker 3: the sort of information we want to be able to

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Speaker 3: digest and take the time to ask those questions, because

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Speaker 3: that's what the general public is going to ask us

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Speaker 3: as well as the government. So we want to make

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Speaker 3: sure we have the information to also be able to

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Speaker 3: prove to territorians on those key issues that people are

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Speaker 3: worried about.

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Speaker 1: Look, I actually think that's fair enough. I think it's

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Speaker 1: fair enough to go through everything and actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: make a decision based on the information you've got in

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Speaker 1: front of you. I know that there'll be people listening

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Speaker 1: this morning going, we'll hang on a sick you know,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about courts considering a youth'sful criminal history when

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Speaker 1: sentencing for adult defenses, going, come on, Wilfye Pino down.

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Speaker 1: You know, does she support it or doesn't she? And

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Speaker 1: I get that, I get the people want to know

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Speaker 1: whether you do or don't support it. But I do

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Speaker 1: think it's fair enough that you go through that information

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Speaker 1: thoroughly and then choose your stance. I mean to those

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Speaker 1: listening this morning, though, who are thinking that you may

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Speaker 1: be being a little bit weak and sort of swinging

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Speaker 1: one way and then the other, what do you say

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Speaker 1: to them?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, one of the questions we asked in

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Speaker 3: the briefing, Katie people have spoken about youth justice boot

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Speaker 3: camps and that was one of the election commitments that

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Speaker 3: the Seale Pit provided. There has been no new boot

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Speaker 3: camps for young people, which is something that was a

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Speaker 3: key part out of youth justice and the platform that

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Speaker 3: the COLP ran on. We're you know, just on a

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Speaker 3: year on the anniversary of the CLP coming to government,

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Speaker 3: so you know, why are they're no new booth camps?

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Speaker 3: So like, why are we not tackling youth crime and

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Speaker 3: youth justice in a way that the COLP promised they would.

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Speaker 3: So again, like they're the sort of bits of information

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Speaker 3: that we're being asked to then ask the government because

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Speaker 3: they're not getting the information and that's something that people

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Speaker 3: really want to see in the community and we're not

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Speaker 3: seeing it. That's something that we haven't heard from the

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Speaker 3: CLP announcements about any new youth boot camp. So they're

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Speaker 3: the sort of things that we'll push this week in

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Speaker 3: the Parliament.

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Speaker 2: Katie, all right, well.

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Speaker 1: We'll be keen to find out what exactly does happen

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Speaker 1: in the Parliament this week. I mean, regardless, the COLP

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Speaker 1: has got the numbers, so they're going to be able

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Speaker 1: to push things through. But I do think it's important

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Speaker 1: to get that detail and to be able to know

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Speaker 1: you know where elements may be missing or you know

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Speaker 1: some areas where there needs to be.

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Speaker 2: Some additional work. I do want to ask you.

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Speaker 1: We don't have a huge amount of time left, but

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask you. Last week the ny

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Speaker 1: General of the Northern Territory flagged extending court hours to

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Speaker 1: include Saturdays to try to get through cases more quickly

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Speaker 1: given the pressure on our watchhouses. Is this something that

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Speaker 1: you think needs to happen on urgency.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's an interesting one, and of course the judiciary

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Speaker 3: acts independently of government and if that's something they're open

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Speaker 3: to to be able to try and alleviate the pressures

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Speaker 3: of that justice pipeline we're seeing quite locked up at

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Speaker 3: the moment, Katie, then I think that could be a

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Speaker 3: way to try and get through some of that heavy load,

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Speaker 3: but again making sure that there is the adequate time

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Speaker 3: and resources put to be able to support the processes

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Speaker 3: of justice in the NT. I think that's something that

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Speaker 3: everyone can agree on.

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Speaker 2: They want to see, sorry opposition later.

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Speaker 1: Another one that we spoke to the Chief Minister about

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Speaker 1: yesterday was the Northern Territories for Aboriginal Land Councils joining

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Speaker 1: forces last week accusing the government of overt racism. The

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Speaker 1: Land councils held that press conference on Thursday Day, unified

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Speaker 1: in their anger against the government's policies, specifically the new

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Speaker 1: public safety and prison laws, with which they said ignored

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Speaker 1: and undermined the rights of Aboriginal people. What do you

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Speaker 1: make of these concerns?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Katie, I thought it was really strong that the

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Speaker 3: four Land councils banded together to make their point. And

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Speaker 3: ultimately it's about frustration about decision making. Anyone across the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory with your black, white, brindle, whatever color, anyone

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Speaker 3: who has a decision made about them, their family, their neighborhood,

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Speaker 3: their community. If a decision is being made about you,

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Speaker 3: or your key interests or a topic area of your expertise,

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Speaker 3: and you don't have that decision making either included with

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Speaker 3: you and your community, or your family or your expertise,

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Speaker 3: then the frustration builds. I can understand the four Land

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Speaker 3: Councils making that really strong stance last week to say

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Speaker 3: involve us. When we talk about particularly justice abergeal lie leadership,

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Speaker 3: people always question and ask we're Averaginal leadership. There it is.

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Speaker 3: We've got four land councils and all of the traditional

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Speaker 3: owners that are represented across the Northern Territory through those

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Speaker 3: land councils saying talk to us, include us. We want

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Speaker 3: to be part of the solution when it comes to

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Speaker 3: driving the territory to a better place. And I don't

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Speaker 3: think that should be ignored or disrespected at all.

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Speaker 2: Katie, Opposition Leader.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the government's making changes, legislative changes which.

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Speaker 3: Are racist, Well, Katie, we've seen three key peaks pieces

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Speaker 3: of legislation just this year, laws in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: Parliament that have not included land councils, but we're around

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Speaker 3: impact on Aboriginal land. So I don't think that's a

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Speaker 3: good way to do government in any book, government one

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Speaker 3: on one, talking to your key stakeholders, getting their ideas, concerns,

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Speaker 3: questions and working together on good territory law. And I

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Speaker 3: didn't see that happen when it came to those three

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Speaker 3: bits of legislation that dismissed the involvement of the land

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Speaker 3: councils in being a king. They got around territory law.

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Speaker 1: Changes oppositionally to Selina Youbo. We're gonna have to leave

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Speaker 1: it there. You've got to get into Parliament. We've got

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Speaker 1: the Corrections Commissioner, and we might talk again later in

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Speaker 1: the week to find out once you've got all the information,

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Speaker 1: whether you support those changes when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: Youth Justice Act. So no doubt we'll talk to you

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Speaker 1: again soon.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Katie, thank you