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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, looking at the AIP, the Australian Institute of Petroleum

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Speaker 1: this morning, it's looking as though our terminal gate price

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Speaker 1: has gone up really quite significantly when it comes to

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Speaker 1: diesel today. Yesterday it was at three dollars eight point eight.

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Speaker 1: This morning it's at three dollars twenty seven point eight.

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what the reasoning is behind that,

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Speaker 1: whether it was the threat by Donald Trump this morning

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Speaker 1: that he was going to well blow everything up, or

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Speaker 1: whether it's what exactly the reasoning is behind that, but

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Speaker 1: we also know them with our unlettered it's bumped up

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Speaker 1: a few cents as well. At the terminal gate. It

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Speaker 1: while sitting at two dollars seven point nine, it's now

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Speaker 1: at two dollars eleven point nine. So no doubt we'll

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Speaker 1: see that reflected at the bowser. But as we also

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Speaker 1: heard on the show yesterday, the Prime Minister has committed

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Speaker 1: to taking every action he says to shield consumers from

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Speaker 1: oil drive inflation shocks stemming from the Middle East. At

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Speaker 1: that press conference that he held yesterday, he confirmed that

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Speaker 1: he's going to be meeting with his Singaporean care to

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Speaker 1: part to shore up trade in petrol Diesel and LNG

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Speaker 1: as part of an annual leader's meeting. Now joining us

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Speaker 1: in the studio to talk more about the situation is

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Speaker 1: the Treasurer of the Northern Territory, Bill Yan. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, Bill, Good.

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Speaker 2: Morning, Katie, and good morning to all your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, thanks so much for your time this morning. Now,

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Speaker 1: last time you and I spoke, we spoke about the

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Speaker 1: fuel excise being you know, announced that cut had been

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Speaker 1: made and we expected that it might take a few

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Speaker 1: days to kick in. We've seen over the last few days, Unlet,

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Speaker 1: it's had a real decrease, but not so much when

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Speaker 1: it comes to diesel. Is there any idea why? Nah?

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Speaker 2: And this is the interesting thing about diesel. And I

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Speaker 2: met with some wholesalers last Thursday in Alice Springs when

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Speaker 2: I was at home, to talk about what the terminal

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Speaker 2: gate price is, the difference between terminal gate YEP and

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Speaker 2: retail the good and how it's different all over the place.

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Speaker 2: And the one interesting thing that came out of that, Katie,

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Speaker 2: is that when we see a termal gate price, we

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Speaker 2: see an average. Every wholesaleer's terminal gate price is different,

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Speaker 2: so they have different cost drivers. The terminal gate price

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Speaker 2: that we see is an average of all of those

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Speaker 2: across the board. Some are higher and some all but

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Speaker 2: the fact that we're seeing a significant bump in that

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Speaker 2: terminal gate overnight is a bit of a.

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Speaker 3: Cause for concerns.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that Jimmy Kiplock, our controller, is looking

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Speaker 2: at certain bits and pieces. He had a meeting yesterday.

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Speaker 2: I had a meeting with him just before I come

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Speaker 2: across here. So we've already sent out some letters to

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Speaker 2: some wholesalers because we've seen what I believe was some

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Speaker 2: were not looking at pricing structures. Why we hadn't seen

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Speaker 2: that flow on of that twenty six point three cents

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Speaker 2: perleted decrease in excise along with the additional five point

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Speaker 2: seven percent five point seven cents poleitter on that GST.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that it should be a thirty two

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Speaker 2: cents polluted.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and so this is what people are struggling to

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Speaker 1: get their heads around bill at the moment. So does

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Speaker 1: that there's that decrease come off the terminal gate price

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Speaker 1: or off what we are seeing it.

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Speaker 2: Should be coming off the terminal gate props because that's

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Speaker 2: the excise that's incorporate internal and some wholesalers have passed

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Speaker 2: it on pretty quickly. There was one wholesale in particularly

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Speaker 2: that I spoke to had said that there was going

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Speaker 2: to be a reduction the following day, and there wasn't,

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Speaker 2: and there wasn't right over easter, So so what did

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Speaker 2: you do to please explain? They got the first please

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Speaker 2: explain from our.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner and they've had twenty four hours. Have they explained?

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Speaker 2: Well, they said, they've got to provide the response back.

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Speaker 2: We also sent a please explain to a retailer because

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Speaker 2: their prices hadn't changed either with that change in excise,

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Speaker 2: So the control the Commissioner has got a response back

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Speaker 2: from that retailer. Now there's a lot of data there,

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Speaker 2: so he's going through that today what that is. We

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Speaker 2: also have referred these operators and another retail to the

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Speaker 2: A Triple C. Now camera gave the A Triple C

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Speaker 2: some expanded powers and some more teeth, so we'reecking to

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Speaker 2: see what that's going to look like. So we referred

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Speaker 2: these these retailers and a wholesaler to the AID Triple C.

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Speaker 3: Have look at their pricing practices.

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Speaker 1: One retail or one wholesaler, and how many retailers to

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Speaker 1: retailers and so you feel they're not playing the game.

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Speaker 3: They're not playing.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not, Katie, And it was pretty plain to see

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Speaker 2: when we analyze the figures every day. So the stuff

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Speaker 2: coming through every day we're out We look at the figures,

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Speaker 2: we look at the outlaws. Soon we'll be publishing what

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Speaker 2: those outlaws look like. We might not be naming them

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Speaker 2: at this point, but we'll certainly be able to show

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Speaker 2: the public what we're doing as far as analyzing daily

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Speaker 2: fuel prices across all retailers, where those outliers are, and

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Speaker 2: then what action we take against the outlawers.

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Speaker 1: So at this point, you've written to that one wholesaler

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Speaker 1: and two retailers. You've heard back from one of them.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard back from the wholesaler.

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Speaker 3: Yet, No, not as yet.

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Speaker 2: Now the other retailer, we should be hearing back from

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Speaker 2: them soon. But immediately that they got the letter and

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Speaker 2: they were also sort of shamed publicly by one of

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Speaker 2: the outlet news outlets, their price dropped a dollar a

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Speaker 2: liter overnight.

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Speaker 1: You are joking funny that, Well, look, I understand that

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Speaker 1: it's a tough juggle. I would imagine for a lot

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Speaker 1: of the retailers at the moment, particularly if you're an

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Speaker 1: independent retailer and you know these prices are going up

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Speaker 1: and down. You know the security of our fuel as

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Speaker 1: well is a difficult thing to ascertain at this point.

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Speaker 1: So I get it that it's not easy for everybody,

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Speaker 1: but you know it's not easy for consumers either, and

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Speaker 1: all that we ask is to be treated fairly.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Catie, and that's that NT Fuel at the INNT

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Speaker 2: fuel website is good. It gives you an idea. Now

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Speaker 2: there's been a couple I won't say it's an inconsistent,

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Speaker 2: but we found something with it. Because you've got diesel

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Speaker 2: and you've got premium diesel. So when you go into

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Speaker 2: the website, you've got to look at diesel and premium

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Speaker 2: diesel and that will give you the prices around your

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Speaker 2: area or wherever you happen to be going. There's also

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Speaker 2: the petrol Spy app.

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Speaker 3: I get up every morning.

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Speaker 2: The first thing I do as I look at a

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Speaker 2: look at them. I look at the NT Fuel petrol

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Speaker 2: Spy and I'm looking at all sorts of others. It's

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Speaker 2: just cross referencing and more. Treasury team do the same.

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Speaker 2: But for those smaller retails, and that's the difficulty because

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Speaker 2: because every wholesale, depending which whole sale you're buying from,

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Speaker 2: your terminal gate price is different, and there's contracts within

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Speaker 2: that too, so some of them are locked in as

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Speaker 2: to their pricing structure, and that's why Jimmy Kiplocks is

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Speaker 2: having a look at.

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Speaker 3: Some of those.

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Speaker 1: So treasurer today the fact that we've got diesel the

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Speaker 1: average according to the Australian Institute of Petroleum, the average

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Speaker 1: terminal gate price today in Darwin for diesel is at

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Speaker 1: two dollars twenty seven point eight three has sorry, three

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Speaker 1: dollars twenty seven would have been happy, yes, happy, it

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Speaker 1: would have been good. So it has literally jumped nearly

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Speaker 1: twenty cents overnight.

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Speaker 3: And that's what we've got to try and get to

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Speaker 3: the bottom of cardin.

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Speaker 2: We don't have, particularly here in the church, we don't

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Speaker 2: have much say over what that terminal gate price is.

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Speaker 2: That's driven by factors very much outside of our control.

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Speaker 3: But you'd like to think when you and this is

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Speaker 3: always going to be the worry.

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Speaker 2: We got the thirty two cents polluted discount on the

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Speaker 2: excise and the tacks, so that dropped away most retailers

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Speaker 2: and most wholesales pass it through, which was really good

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Speaker 2: to see. But it hasn't taken long for that terminal

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Speaker 2: gate price to eat up that thirty two cents.

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Speaker 3: Politters so much.

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Speaker 1: I reckon is what everyone was worried without.

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Speaker 2: And now we're back and it was always in the

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Speaker 2: back of my head. How long was that going to take?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey, we know as well that the Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: Anthony Albanezi obviously held that press conference yesterday he announced

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Speaker 1: it he's going to meet with his Singaporean counterpart later

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Speaker 1: this week. How important do you think that meeting's going

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Speaker 1: to be in terms of our fuel security? Jared Mayley

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Speaker 1: had said on the show yesterday that he believes that

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Speaker 1: we're secure up until May. But how important is this

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Speaker 1: meeting with Elbow and the singapore In Prime Minister.

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Speaker 3: I think it's quite important, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Look that the Prime minister's over there trying to shore

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Speaker 2: up and guarantee that supply into Australia now as always,

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Speaker 2: so I've got oversight of about three weeks out as

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Speaker 2: far as our ship's coming in Go.

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Speaker 3: There's a vessel.

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Speaker 2: Here in harbor at the moment discharging into the port,

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Speaker 2: which is great to see. We've we get about one

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Speaker 2: per week and we still have our thirty plus days

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Speaker 2: of reserve. So at this point in time, our supply

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Speaker 2: coming in is good. It's hard for me to see

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Speaker 2: pass those three weeks. And that's what Canberen needs to

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Speaker 2: be able to do is give me and give territorians

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Speaker 2: that surety that we will continue to see supply into

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Speaker 2: the future, because that will be key going forward.

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Speaker 1: So can you explain to our listeners because we always

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Speaker 1: get questions about, you know, where our fuel comes from.

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Speaker 1: So where exactly are we getting our fuel, surprise from.

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Speaker 2: The majority of our fuel comes from Singapore. We're getting

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Speaker 2: some from Malaysia. I think we're now seeing possibly deliveries

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Speaker 2: from the Japan and I think the South Korea region.

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Speaker 2: So it comes from a variety of places, but the

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Speaker 2: majority is out of Singapore and the majority of Singapore

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Speaker 2: crude is coming out of the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: So this is where we're still running into issues.

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Speaker 2: That's where we're still if you look at really, if

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Speaker 2: you look at us in the territory, where a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a drop in the ocean, as far as

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Speaker 2: fuel goes, fuel use goes in some respects. But said

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Speaker 2: our supply has been guaranteed. I said, out that three

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Speaker 2: weeks and by all accounts, according to the Prime Minister,

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Speaker 2: out until the end of May, which is really good

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Speaker 2: to hear. And I said, gives us that little bit

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Speaker 2: of I suppose that's safety net.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, a question from Jody and Woodrove. She said,

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Speaker 1: good morning, Katie, and when you speak to the minister,

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Speaker 1: could you please ask if petrols delivered directly to Darwin Port,

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Speaker 1: why do we have the highest prices in the country,

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Speaker 1: and why do even places further away like Catherine also

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Speaker 1: have lower prices. My stepdad and I'd really like to

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Speaker 1: know because we can't figure out how this can be, says,

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Speaker 1: and that.

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Speaker 2: Comes down to whichever wholesaleer is supply and the fuel

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Speaker 2: because there said their terminal gates are different. Now, this

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Speaker 2: is a question I asked a little while ago. It's

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Speaker 2: good to be able to answer this because I always asked, well,

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Speaker 2: we're closer to Singapore than Bloody Melbourne, why are our

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Speaker 2: eternal gate price is higher. It's volume, okay, because we

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Speaker 2: don't get the volume. We still require the infrastructure and

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Speaker 2: everything else to support that system, but we have lower volumes,

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Speaker 2: which of course then has a higher price, the higher

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Speaker 2: the volumes are right with the same infrastructure, the less

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Speaker 2: of the price. So I got a handle on that,

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Speaker 2: But it then comes down to whichever wholesale it is.

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Speaker 2: They're all eternal gates are different, so you've got to

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Speaker 2: go into I don't get that.

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Speaker 1: Why is that the case?

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Speaker 2: Why is the price different for everybody company structures? It

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Speaker 2: could be the structure of how their systems.

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Speaker 3: Work, their pricing regimes.

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Speaker 2: What their actual infrastructure looks like on the ground, and

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Speaker 2: their transport networks.

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Speaker 3: So every one of them is different.

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Speaker 2: And I only got to the bottom of this just recently,

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Speaker 2: and there is a reasonable variants between each one. So

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Speaker 2: we just take an average across. I think there's six

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Speaker 2: majors into Australia, but we predominantly have four in the.

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Speaker 1: Territory that we use TREASURER. Another listener question, this one

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Speaker 1: asking since you just revived the nineteen forty nine Price

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Speaker 1: Exploitation Prevention Act, why hasn't the Fuel Controller ordered the

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Speaker 1: receipts of these Alice Spring sites to see exactly when

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Speaker 1: their old stock ran out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, that's that's quite difficult because if those stock

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Speaker 2: levels are always changing within the tanks, and I said,

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Speaker 2: they have to look at the freight component and all

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Speaker 2: those other bits and pieces coming down to Alice Spring.

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Speaker 2: So but that one retailer in particular, they've already got that.

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Speaker 2: Please explain, because the savings that were supposed to be

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Speaker 2: passed on from those changes in ext ice weren't even

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Speaker 2: though I was told they were going to be the

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Speaker 2: next day.

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Speaker 1: Do you worry at all that some of these servos

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Speaker 1: or some of these supplies, like I don't know how

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Speaker 1: big they are are, these wholesalers, but they're just going

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Speaker 1: to go. Do you know what, we don't care whether

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Speaker 1: the treasure is written to Well, I.

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Speaker 3: Tell you what.

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Speaker 2: If they don't care, if they don't follow the rules,

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Speaker 2: there's some pretty hefty fines that go with it, how

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Speaker 2: much I think for Body corporate up to seventy four

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars for nine compliants or two.

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Speaker 3: Years in jail.

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Speaker 1: So they need to play they need to play ball.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, they need to

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Speaker 2: do the right thing by territory consumers. Because you can

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Speaker 2: get online, you can see.

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Speaker 1: You see whether they see who.

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Speaker 2: Is taking advantage of territories. And I urged territories to

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Speaker 2: get online and have a look. Use our fuel used

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Speaker 2: petrol spy.

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Speaker 1: Go see it for yourself.

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Speaker 2: Go and find the best of your for you and

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Speaker 2: you'll soon see who's taking.

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Speaker 3: Advantage of treasurer.

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Speaker 1: And we saw at that press conference yesterday with the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister and also with Minister Bowen that they had

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Speaker 1: said that some service stations didn't have petrol in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory. Do you know where they are?

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Speaker 2: I don't know exactly where they are, But it's not

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Speaker 2: because of any shortages. The stations that are out of

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Speaker 2: fuel across the territory are out because the roads have

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Speaker 2: been shut and they haven't been.

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Speaker 3: Able to get deliveries because of the recent floods.

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Speaker 2: So that's why that's why we've got those few surveys

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Speaker 2: that are out. It's not because of a supply shortage,

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Speaker 2: it's we can't well nobody can get there to deliver fuel.

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Speaker 2: So as the roads dry out and as we fix

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Speaker 2: a few of those up those surveys, we're getting fueled.

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Speaker 1: There's plenty of questions coming through from listeners. We have

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Speaker 1: one yesterday they asked, how can it be that diesel

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Speaker 1: is that two dollars sixty five at Beswick? But then

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Speaker 1: in pine Lands it's at three dollars twenty nine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've seen this from a couple of retailers,

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Speaker 2: particularly in the Bush. So they bought their fuel, they

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Speaker 2: buy it in bulk, like tens of thousands of liters

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Speaker 2: at a point in time months ago, and they paid

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Speaker 2: X amount for it. So they're still selling it at

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Speaker 2: that retail by that price point. What you'll see with

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Speaker 2: most of the retailers here in Darwin, like they don't

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Speaker 2: hold that much stock on hand, they're getting constant deliveries,

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Speaker 2: and of course their prices change on every delivery.

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Speaker 1: So treasure, I'm just saying now in what is it

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Speaker 1: looks like some breaking news from CNBC internationally, they're saying

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Speaker 1: that US screwed oil prices plunged Tuesday evening after the

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Speaker 1: President agreed to suspend those attacks on Iran for two

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Speaker 1: weeks in exchange for Tehran allowing safe passage through the

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Speaker 1: Strait of HomeOS. The West Texas intermediate contract for May

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Speaker 1: delivery fell from fell about fifteen percent to ninety five

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Speaker 1: point six y three per barrel. That was obviously for

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Speaker 1: them local time. What do you think that that might

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Speaker 1: mean for US?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I get to report every morning Katie on

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Speaker 2: the Brent oil prices overnight YEP, and then also get

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Speaker 2: terminal Gate prices and I get the average retail across

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Speaker 2: different areas. So as of tomorrow, I'll get that new

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Speaker 2: update on what the price of Brent is.

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Speaker 3: Per barrel YEP.

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Speaker 2: And then I said, my team will be cross referencing

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Speaker 2: that against what terminal Gate is and then across what

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Speaker 2: then retail is.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that you know this two week deal

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Speaker 1: that's been struck. I mean, it's hard to know what

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's going to do next. I don't think any

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Speaker 1: of us can guess that. But do you think that

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Speaker 1: the steel that's been struck could hopefully see that we

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Speaker 1: might sort of have some change in this space?

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Speaker 2: Well, if we start to get those vessels through the

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Speaker 2: Straightahill Moors, Yeah, and start getting that crude into Singapore

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Speaker 2: and those other refraers across Asia, and not just that,

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Speaker 2: but start to get some of that fertilizer that's currently

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Speaker 2: locked up in the Strait there as well. Yeah, farmers

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Speaker 2: need that too. We know that Indonesia has stuck the

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Speaker 2: hand up said they're going to help us out.

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Speaker 3: Which is great to see you.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of things at play in the

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Speaker 2: Strait and in the Middle East, so hopefully this two

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Speaker 2: weeks cease fire we can start to see some movement.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to be quite selfish relieve some pressure

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Speaker 2: on the people of the Northern Territory because after a

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Speaker 2: couple of cyclones and some floods, we need a bit

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Speaker 2: of a break.

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Speaker 1: We've all had enough. I think it's safe to say, hey, Treasurer,

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Speaker 1: before I let you go, can I just get you

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Speaker 1: to put your infrastructure hat on for a moment? People

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Speaker 1: or someone's just messaged through I believe, saying how can

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Speaker 1: people access Daily River if infrastructure there is wiped out?

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Speaker 1: Fish shows are obviously going to be close closely watching,

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Speaker 1: but so are of course other people that live out there.

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Speaker 1: We have been sent through some pictures of the road

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Speaker 1: washed away. When is it? What do you think is

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Speaker 1: going to happen there? Or when are you going to

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Speaker 1: get someone out?

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Speaker 2: I know there was some teams down there last week

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Speaker 2: looking at power because they've been smishes with power lines

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Speaker 2: and stuff, so no power and water were down there.

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Speaker 2: More infrastructure teams I think have been down. I've seen

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Speaker 2: a piece of the Wooliana road that's missing down below

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Speaker 2: the Daily River berries or down.

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Speaker 3: Below ste and Marny's place.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of work, but primarily, first and foremost,

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Speaker 2: we've got to look after the locals down there, So

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Speaker 2: whether it's naive community.

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Speaker 3: Or the people in Wuliana Road everywhere else before.

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Speaker 2: Fish to take a rest, just take a deep breath.

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Speaker 2: We've got to look after the locals first before you

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Speaker 2: can get your bum down here and go for a fish.

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Speaker 2: We have announced the business support payments from Canbrothers today.

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Speaker 2: We only got those signed off by the Prime Minister.

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Speaker 2: Say there's some well needed relief going to those businesses,

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Speaker 2: particular those tourism and industry businesses down there, so.

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Speaker 3: That look, it's not going to do everything that provides

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Speaker 3: a little bit of help.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we'll take people in Darwin and around the

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Speaker 2: places need to be a little bit patient while we

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Speaker 2: get some infrastructure things sorted out down there for the

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Speaker 2: locals and then once that's done you can get down there

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Speaker 2: from it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Treasure, we will take our listeners through that

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Speaker 1: business announcement in full throughout this morning. Just another quick

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Speaker 1: one from a listener. So and Katie, when is this

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Speaker 1: saving potentially going to come through to us. That's on

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Speaker 1: the crude oil or the brand to how do you

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Speaker 1: say that, You were calling it the barrel price, the

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Speaker 1: Brent crude.

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Speaker 2: Or barrels down below one hundred dollars a barrel, Now, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I said, We'll be keeping an eye on out. Hopefully

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Speaker 2: I'd love to see that drop in Brent crude price

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Speaker 2: be immediately reflected in a change in terminal gate price.

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Speaker 2: We then should be immediately reflected in a change in

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Speaker 2: retail price. That's the perfect world and we'll be watching

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Speaker 2: that pretty closely tomorrow Again, if we see retails and

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Speaker 2: wholesales noting by territorials, Jimmy Kiplock will be coming looking

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Speaker 2: for you.

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Speaker 1: Well. Look, it appears as though it is now being

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Speaker 1: widely reported that Iran have agreed to reopen that straight

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Speaker 1: with the Trump ceasefire deal. That is, according to various

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Speaker 1: different news outlets, Iran saying that they would guarantee safe

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Speaker 1: passage for maritime traffic through the vital Strait of Humus

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Speaker 1: for two weeks, announcing that the pause would be used

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Speaker 1: for talks with the United States on ending the war.

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Speaker 1: That is starting, it says starting Friday in Islamabad. So

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Speaker 1: I hope that this is going to have a positive

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Speaker 1: impact for everybody, particularly for us here in the NT.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so okay, I think everyone's been holding

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Speaker 2: their breath like worldwide over what's been happening in the

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Speaker 2: Middle East. So this is a positive, definitely a positive

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Speaker 2: for everyone. But I said, I'm always going to be

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Speaker 2: selfish territorian's number one first and foremost. Hopefully we see

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Speaker 2: some relief here in a territory for all of us,

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Speaker 2: because yep, we said we need a break.

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Speaker 1: Yep, we certainly do. We'll Bill Yan, the Treasurer of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory, also the Minister for Infrastructure, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for your time this.

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Speaker 3: Morning, Katie. Thanks for having me on this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thank you