1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Oas comment that 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: you lie, you know, I'm going to include that right, Yeah, 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Thursday, 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: the twentieth of April. 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 3: I'm Sam, I'm Nina filling in Fizara until she's back 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 3: later next week. 13 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 4: Good evening. 14 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: Not enough money to meet the essentials, A choice between 15 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: medicine or power bills. It's the dilemma welfare recipients are facing. 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: According to a newly released. 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,639 Speaker 3: Review, an expert panel has recommended raising job seeker payments 18 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: seeing they're currently seriously inadequate. Tom's going to jump in 19 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 3: on the deep dive to explain what's been recommended and 20 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 3: whether or not the government is considering raising payments for 21 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: first m What's making news this morning. 22 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: Some sad news yesterday with the passing of father Bob McGuire, 23 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 2: who died aged eighty eight. He was an outspoken social 24 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: justice activist and provided relief into support to Australians through 25 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: his father Bob Maguire Foundation. McGuire's family said that he 26 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: had been battling declining health in the last few months 27 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: and was a dear, much loved member of their family. 28 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 3: The independent Victorian Anti Corruption Agency has found that staff 29 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 3: is in the office of Premier Daniel Andrews interfered in 30 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: the management of a government tendering process. Their interference insured 31 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 3: a contract was awarded to an organization linked to the 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 3: Health Workers' Union in twenty eighteen. IBAK that's the Victorian 33 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,559 Speaker 3: Anti Corruption Commission found that while Staff's conduct felt short 34 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: of corruption, it wasn't up to standard. 35 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: India is set to overtake China in having the world's 36 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: biggest population by the middle of this year. That's according 37 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: to new figures from the UN. China's population declines last 38 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 2: year for the first time in over sixty years due 39 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: to a spike in depths and a low birth rate. 40 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: And the good news, a totally pristine coral reef has 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: been discovered in the depths of Ecuador's Galapagus Islands. The 42 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 3: reef was discovered by a deep sea research device that 43 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 3: was trawling in the Galapagus Marine Reserve. I just love 44 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 3: to think that there's all these parts of the ocean 45 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:31,559 Speaker 3: that are undiscovered. 46 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 2: Still. The little mermaid was right, she was right about 47 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: under the sea. 48 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 3: Hey, Tom, welcome back to the pod. 49 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 4: Hey Nina, nice to be talking to you. This is 50 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 4: a fun change. 51 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: Mixing it up. So, Tom, you've come to talk to 52 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 3: us about job seeker today and a recommendation about the 53 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 3: government increasing those payments. Should we start with what job 54 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 3: seeker actually is. 55 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 4: So job sacre is the unemployment payment. Basically, it's the 56 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 4: payment that you get when you're out of work. There 57 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 4: are about one million people who access either job Seeker 58 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 4: or some similar payments with different names that are basically 59 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 4: the same thing. And among those one million people, I 60 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 4: mean some people might use it only for a couple 61 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 4: of months while they're looking for a new job, but 62 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 4: there are a lot of people who are on job 63 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 4: Seeker for the long term, who for whatever reason, are 64 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 4: for long periods of time unable to find work and 65 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 4: who are reliant on job seeker for their income. So 66 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 4: the exact amount varies depending on your kind of status, 67 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 4: whether you have children, whether you're in a relationship, but 68 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 4: for a single person with no children, it is between 69 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 4: six and seven hundred dollars a fortnite. So that's the 70 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 4: kind of the current amount. 71 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 3: The report we got this week was from a bunch 72 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 3: of experts. The government specifically asked them to investigate job seeker. 73 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: What did they find? 74 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 4: They found that it is not high enough in their view, 75 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 4: so they recommended a significant increase should be a first 76 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 4: priority for the government. And that comes in a context 77 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 4: where job seeker hasn't materially increased in over twenty years. 78 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 4: So the amount of job seeker gets updated twice a 79 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 4: year to match rising prices inflation to kind of keep 80 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 4: up with that, but beyond that, there hasn't been an 81 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 4: increase in a very long time. Now, what that means 82 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 4: is that when you compare people on the unemployment payment 83 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 4: to everybody else, they've fallen behind over that period. So, 84 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 4: for example, when we compare to people who have jobs 85 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 4: and earn wages, although we certainly talk sometimes about how 86 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 4: wages maybe haven't risen as fast as we would like 87 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 4: over the last few years. When you look over twenty years, 88 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 4: the standard of living in Australia has increased. For people 89 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: with jobs, Australians have gotten richer overall, but for people 90 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 4: on the unemployment benefit there has been no material change. 91 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 4: And so when we measure in relative terms, people on 92 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 4: the unemployment benefit have fallen behind. The reason that that 93 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 4: word relative is really important is because that's typically how 94 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 4: we measure poverty. So most standard measures of poverty are 95 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 4: measured as a comparison to what your standard of living 96 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 4: is compared to those in the same country as you. 97 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 4: And so when we look at you, sometimes people talk 98 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 4: about the poverty line, and there are lots of different 99 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 4: ways that that can be measured, but generally speaking, all 100 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 4: of the poverty lines that we look at show people 101 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 4: on the unemployment benefit going further and further below that 102 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 4: and falling further and further behind others over the last 103 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 4: twenty years. And we see that show up when we 104 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 4: measure financial stress, things like for example, skipping meals or 105 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 4: people who are unable to heat their homes. On measures 106 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 4: like that, people on these payments are consistently showing much 107 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 4: higher levels of financial stress than others In Australia. 108 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 3: And so you've already mentioned the report recommended increasing the 109 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 3: job seeker payments. Do we have a sense of what 110 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 3: they're proposing that rise would look like. 111 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, So they didn't put an exact dollar amount. They 112 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 4: kind of tied it to a different payment, the age 113 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 4: pension for retirease, and suggested that you might set it 114 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 4: at ninety percent of the age pension. So what that 115 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 4: would roughly mean is that we're going from kind of 116 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 4: just under seven hundred dollars for a single person with 117 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 4: no kids in a fortnite to kind of closer to 118 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 4: nine hundred. So it would be in that sense quite 119 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 4: a material increase in terms of the day to day 120 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 4: income for people on that payment. That's roughly the recommendation 121 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 4: that they made. 122 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 3: One of the other types of wealth for payments they 123 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 3: discussed was rental assistance. Well, were they recommendations on that payment? 124 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, So that's another government payment that they recommended increasing. 125 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 4: So rent assistance, Commonwealth rent assistance is its full title, 126 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 4: is a rent payment that the government gives to welfare 127 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 4: recipients if they rent, recognizing that people who rent have 128 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 4: some additional costs and financial barriers, and I guess it's 129 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 4: you know, as we all know, we're in the middle 130 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 4: of a bit of a rental crisis at the moment. 131 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 4: It is a very difficult time to be a Rents 132 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 4: are increasing at historically high levels, and so the panel 133 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 4: said that there was a case there as well as 134 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 4: increasing the overall level of job seeker, to also increase 135 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 4: the amount of this kind of rental tack on for renters. 136 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 4: And again, just like with job seeker, there is this 137 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 4: kind of decades long historical story here, and so they 138 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 4: presented in their report the fact that over the last 139 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 4: twenty years the amount of rent assistance also hasn't increased 140 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 4: very much. It hasn't kept up with rising rents, and 141 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 4: that was part of why they argued there was a 142 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 4: case to increase that as well. 143 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: So we've had these recommendations, this committee has said that 144 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: there should be more money going to these welfare recipients. 145 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: Is the government likely to accept that recommendation. 146 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 4: No, So they have pretty quickly kind of ruled that out. 147 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 4: They haven't kind of stated it publicly, but they have 148 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 4: made it pretty clear pretty quickly that that particular recommendation 149 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 4: to increase job seeker they will not adopt, citing really 150 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 4: the cost. So they say that this would cost about 151 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 4: six billion dollars a year, and that in a context 152 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 4: where they're worried about the amount of spending in the budget, 153 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 4: worried about the economic conditions and inflation, and not wanting 154 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 4: to put too much money into the economy. They have 155 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 4: a number of reasons why they've for months been downplaying 156 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 4: any expectation that they might move on Job Seeker, and 157 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 4: it now is fairly definitive that they won't. They are 158 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 4: likely to accept some of the other recommendations. So there 159 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 4: are a whole bunch of little recommendations that we haven't 160 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 4: gone into here. Job Seeker was clearly the big one. 161 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 4: They haven't kind of officially arrived at a stance on 162 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 4: Commonwealth rent assistance, which is quite a bit cheaper than 163 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 4: Job Seeker to increase. So it's possible that they may 164 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 4: increase that, But when it comes to the big increase 165 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 4: in job Seeker that the expert panel recommended, the government 166 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 4: does not appear set to implement that recommendation. 167 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 3: Question for you, As we're getting closer to this budget, 168 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 3: we were speaking about it on yesterday's episode as well. 169 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: In the context of NDAs spending, what would you say 170 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 3: to people who are trying to interpret all all of 171 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 3: these conversations about what the government should or shouldn't be 172 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: spending their money on our money on. 173 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean budget. I mean I love budget season, Nina, 174 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 4: and I'm sure I'll be on the pod in the 175 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 4: next couple of weeks to say many exciting things about 176 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 4: the budget. But it is, I mean, the fascinating question 177 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 4: that we ask ourselves. Every budget is about prioritization. There 178 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 4: are so many different things that the government might want 179 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 4: to spend on and I guess limited resources in terms 180 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 4: of the tax they raise or the debt that they 181 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 4: take on to pay for those things, and so budgets 182 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 4: are a balancing act. Budgets are a question about you know, 183 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 4: what is your priority list, what's on the top of it, 184 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 4: and everyone will have their own answers. I think my 185 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 4: one piece of advice to anybody who's trying to navigate 186 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 4: this terrain, I would always be skeptical of politicians who 187 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 4: use phrases like we can't afford this, because that's not 188 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 4: really how budgets work. As I say, budgets are about 189 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 4: choices and prioritizations. So as we head into budget season, 190 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 4: I think the right way to think about job seek 191 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 4: out the the ies. As you guys talked about yesterday. 192 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 4: You know all of these things, they are about choices. 193 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 4: They are about what the government you will choose to afford. 194 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 4: I guess it is maybe one way of putting it, 195 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 4: rather than what they can and can't afford. It's a really, 196 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 4: really difficult balancing exercise. I certainly wouldn't like to be 197 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 4: in charge of balancing a budget, but I think, particularly 198 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 4: at a time when lots of people are doing it tough, 199 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 4: it's going to be a really difficult political exercise for 200 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 4: the government as well as a difficult economic one. 201 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad we have you here to help us 202 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: interpret all of these conversations. Tom, thanks so much for 203 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 3: joining us on the plot today. 204 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 4: Thank you Nino. 205 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on the Daily Ods today. If 206 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 2: you learn something from today's episode, don't forget to hit 207 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: subscribes so there's a TDA episode waiting for you every morning. 208 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 2: We'll be back again tomorrow. Until then, have a great day.