1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Jersey and Amanda jam. 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 2: Nation Double a Chattery Jobs drops today. This is the 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 2: podcast that Amanda does with her friend Anita McGregor, who 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 2: is a forensic psychologist, a psychologist. I love hanging out 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: with her and just getting information. I give her a 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: couple of drinks and say, yes, so what about tell 7 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 2: me about that guy? 8 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: And she gives no information. 9 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 2: She gives it. 10 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: She's a bolt or does it mean that just spills 11 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: all the I think, yeah, And you're the one she 12 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 1: tells other people about. Perhaps an interesting topic today, and 13 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: it's quite timely, I guess in light of the el 14 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: McPherson thing of people turning their back on science, because 15 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: Anita said that STEM education is dropping. The number of 16 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: people who are seeking to study STEM and to work 17 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: in that field s science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. Part 18 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: of this, she said, was because of the lack of 19 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: continuity during COVID and how momentum was kind of got 20 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: lost in the way that kids were learning. But also, 21 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: and this is the thing that comes back to the 22 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: elmac first and story is people seem to be and 23 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: this is we're just discussing the idea of it. We're 24 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: not saying this is what the studies are showing but 25 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: turning their back on traditional medicine, traditional science. Our belief 26 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: in the hard sciences have been challenged by all the 27 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: new to overstate it, the flat earthers, the people who 28 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: think that their opinion of science equals science. And we 29 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: discussed this on the show. Wen't even had el McPherson 30 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: on the show, and she said that she turned her 31 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: back on traditional medicine to heal herself with breast cancer 32 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: after having had an operation a lumpectomy. 33 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: Also, if you read that book, Elle was told by 34 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: many doctors she chose that was her own thing. She 35 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: chose to take the path. And she also said in 36 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: her defense, she said, I'm not saying do this no. 37 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: But also when people pick it up as clickbait, then 38 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: some people might think, oh, this is that's what el 39 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: worked for l I'd recommend you read what ELB. McPherson's 40 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: actual opinion is. 41 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: On it, of course, but you cannot get her entire 42 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: medical prognosis from that book and therefore see the decision 43 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: she made and why she's a wellness influencer, and that 44 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: carries some weight. A friend of mine is a GP 45 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: in Melbourne. She's a third generation GP. Her dad and 46 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: grandfather were in a small country town, and she has 47 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: said the changing nature of being a doctor is very 48 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: interesting that her dad and grandfather were kind of there 49 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: was magic in what they did. People imbued them with magic. 50 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: You went to see the doctor, you went to see 51 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: doctor Collins, and he would say you need to take 52 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: this tablet. People did. People didn't question it. They got 53 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: better or they didn't, but you know, they believed in 54 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: the magic of science and the magic of medicine. Jane said. Therefore, 55 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: when she trained in the eighties, the system was changing 56 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: and was more collaborative. And this is what happens when 57 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: you go now to have, for example, a hippoplacement, when 58 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: you have any operation, they have to tell you here 59 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: are the risk factors, here's the bits we can't be 60 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: and the doctors always say, look, I very very rarely 61 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: say this, but I see this, but I have to 62 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: tell you that this is what can go wrong, and 63 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: here are some pictures, and here's this, and this have 64 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: to now be informed in a way that makes us 65 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 1: have fear, in a way that makes us have doubt 66 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: because we don't see absolutes anymore. And the doctors have 67 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: to say look, here are the side effects for this tablet, 68 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: and you may it may not even work, Whereas this 69 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: is why people are turning to holistic methods or a 70 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: natural path. Jane will say, She'll find it very hard 71 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: to tell some patients your child needs maybe a vaccine, 72 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: or your child needs antibiotics. She said, here she has 73 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: seen people who will give their kids natural tonics. They've 74 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: got no idea what's in them. A pregnant woman might 75 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: take natural tonics, no idea what's in them, but won't 76 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: take something that the doctor says maybe would be good 77 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: for them, because no one can give you absolutes in 78 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: the scientific realm, whereas the associated realms may be able 79 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: to say, hey, take this, you'll be better. She said. 80 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: She had a locom at her surgery who was old school, 81 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: and Jane thought, I wondered if the patients were like her. 82 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: All the patients loved her because she was old school. 83 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: She said, take this, you'll get better. 84 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like having good in politics. You know, in 85 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: the old days, you look at politics now everyone has 86 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: an opinion on politics. In the old days, when John 87 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: Howard and Bob Hawk all those guys, you just listen 88 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: to what they said, and you just believed. 89 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: It, and so maybe we're better off, maybe we're not. 90 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: Jane herself said, Well, Jane herself said, does this mean 91 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: that I am less powerful as a doctor? I don't know. 92 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: Does this mean I'm bitter about it? I don't know? 93 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: Is it a sad case state of affairs? What she 94 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: did say is that we've lost our belief in science 95 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: and that that's a hard. 96 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: Thing to believe in the science if you. 97 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: Want to, if you want to, and that's where we 98 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: are now. 99 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: Maybe we'll go back to setting up snake oil, will 100 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: be snake oil salesman, selling the stuff it's good for. 101 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: What ails you? 102 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: Well, that's that's maybe that's who knows. So anyway, that's 103 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: what we discussed on Double a Chattery. Can get it 104 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: at double a chattery dot com. 105 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: Check it out.