WEBVTT - What is engineered stone and why is Australia banning it?

0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.160
<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.440
<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.919
<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.720
<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Monday,

0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:33.080
<v Speaker 2>the eighteenth of December.

0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:34.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm Zara, I'm Sam.

0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.280
<v Speaker 2>This week Australia became the first country in the world

0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.240
<v Speaker 2>to ban engineered stone.

0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.680
<v Speaker 4>Engineered stone is killing workers right now in the factories

0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:45.320
<v Speaker 4>where workers are working with it and on.

0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.720
<v Speaker 1>Site where workers are also installing it.

0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:48.040
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Engineered stone has become a popular and more affordable alternative

0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:56.560
<v Speaker 2>to natural stone, so things like marble in bathrooms and kitchens,

0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.600
<v Speaker 2>but it contains a dangerous and potentially life threatening substance.

0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:03.880
<v Speaker 2>In today's deep Dive, we'll tell you more about engineered

0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.440
<v Speaker 2>stone and unpack this new band before we get there, though, Sam,

0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.240
<v Speaker 2>what's making headlines.

0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.720
<v Speaker 3>Local mayors in areas of North Queensland affected by major

0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.240
<v Speaker 3>flooding have backed calls for Australian Defense Force personnel to

0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.800
<v Speaker 3>be called into the region to help with disaster relief efforts.

0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:27.360
<v Speaker 3>It's the worst flood in Cansas history, with waterways three

0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:31.319
<v Speaker 3>meters above major flood levels and they have now exceeded

0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.720
<v Speaker 3>the levels set by the previous record, which was in

0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.360
<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventy seven. Can's airport remains closed and ten five

0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:40.399
<v Speaker 3>hundred homes remain without power.

0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:45.120
<v Speaker 2>The Australian Medical Association is calling for the federal government

0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.520
<v Speaker 2>to introduce minimum rebates for private health insurance customers. The

0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:54.280
<v Speaker 2>AMA's latest Health Insurance report card found significant variations across

0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.960
<v Speaker 2>rebates for identical procedures from different insurers. The report also

0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.279
<v Speaker 2>found health insurantfits increased by one point three billion dollars

0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.920
<v Speaker 2>this year compared to the twenty twenty twenty twenty one

0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:05.720
<v Speaker 2>financial year.

0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.880
<v Speaker 3>And the Australian men's cricket team have recorded a victory

0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.160
<v Speaker 3>over Pakistan in the first Test of Australia's home summer

0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.880
<v Speaker 3>series in Western Australia. The highlight of the test was

0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:22.080
<v Speaker 3>the five hundredth Test wicket taken by spinner Nathan Lyon.

0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.680
<v Speaker 3>He becomes only the third Australian men's cricketer to reach

0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:30.320
<v Speaker 3>that milestone behind only Shane Warn and Glenn McGrath. Australia

0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.240
<v Speaker 3>beat Pakistan by three hundred and sixty runs.

0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.240
<v Speaker 2>And the good news, A treatment using the medical technology

0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.400
<v Speaker 2>from the Maderna and Phizer COVID vaccines has been found

0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.960
<v Speaker 2>to successfully reduce the risk of skin cancer recurring. A

0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.360
<v Speaker 2>clinical trial of over one hundred and fifty patients with

0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:50.160
<v Speaker 2>high risk melanoma found the Maderna Merk treatment, which uses

0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.320
<v Speaker 2>mRNA technology, reduced the risk of skin cancer occurrence and

0:02:54.400 --> 0:03:01.680
<v Speaker 2>death by nearly fifty percent when used after surgery. All right, so, Sam,

0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.840
<v Speaker 2>there is a lot to unpack in this story. Over

0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.040
<v Speaker 2>recent years, and certainly this year, we've been hearing more

0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:12.160
<v Speaker 2>and more about engineered stone, which is also called manufactured stone,

0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.000
<v Speaker 2>and more specifically calls for it to be banned.

0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.080
<v Speaker 3>So is this not natural stone, right, It's a different substance.

0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So think of a kitchen bench top which can

0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.839
<v Speaker 2>be made out of stones like granite and marble. These

0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.399
<v Speaker 2>are natural stones and they can look great, but they're

0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:32.120
<v Speaker 2>also pretty expensive. So essentially, engineered stone is a cheaper,

0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.440
<v Speaker 2>man made alternative to these stones. So no, not a

0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.800
<v Speaker 2>natural stone, a cheaper alternative.

0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.400
<v Speaker 3>And I kind of know the reputation of marble is

0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.160
<v Speaker 3>being super expensive, especially if it's in one big slab.

0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.600
<v Speaker 3>So what's the danger then with the man made engineered stone?

0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.600
<v Speaker 2>So the issue with engineered stone actually comes from a

0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:55.240
<v Speaker 2>mineral it contains called crystalline silica. Now, engineered stone isn't

0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:59.280
<v Speaker 2>dangerous once it's installed, but whenever a construction worker or

0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:01.760
<v Speaker 2>a stone may s and needs to cut or drill

0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.800
<v Speaker 2>or polish it, these small dust particles are released. And

0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:11.640
<v Speaker 2>these particles contain crystalline silica. Now, this dust is extremely

0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.560
<v Speaker 2>dangerous to breathe in. It can cause a lung disease

0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:15.560
<v Speaker 2>called silicosis.

0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.440
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So if you have one of these engineered benchtops

0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.400
<v Speaker 3>installed in your home, that's not the problem we're looking at, right,

0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.719
<v Speaker 3>It's the actual construction correct cutting. It's the people that

0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.719
<v Speaker 3>are working on getting it into the home and actually

0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.760
<v Speaker 3>providing that. Okay. And if the implications here is that

0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.080
<v Speaker 3>you can develop silicosis, what do we know about how

0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:37.920
<v Speaker 3>dangerous silicosis can be?

0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.600
<v Speaker 2>So, I mean it can be fatal, right, And the

0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.680
<v Speaker 2>group that's most risk of being diagnosed with silicosis, as

0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.800
<v Speaker 2>I just alluded to tradees, the people who are actually

0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.400
<v Speaker 2>working with the stone. It's estimated that about ten thousand

0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:54.400
<v Speaker 2>people around the world have died from silicosis. It's also incurable,

0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.919
<v Speaker 2>so once you've been diagnosed with it, it stays with

0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:57.440
<v Speaker 2>you forever.

0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.560
<v Speaker 3>And what do we know about silicosis in Australia right now?

0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.880
<v Speaker 2>So a study from Curtain University last year estimated roughly

0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:09.960
<v Speaker 2>five hundred and eighty thousand Australian workers have been exposed

0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.320
<v Speaker 2>in some capacity to silica dust, so not necessarily that

0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.880
<v Speaker 2>they have then had it progress into silicosis, but that

0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:18.120
<v Speaker 2>they've been exposed to it.

0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.080
<v Speaker 3>But that's an insane number of people in the population

0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:20.719
<v Speaker 3>of Australia.

0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so there have been these calls then to

0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.280
<v Speaker 2>ban the stone altogether to protect these trades who are

0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.719
<v Speaker 2>being exposed to it. And it's mostly been a call

0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.400
<v Speaker 2>from the unions who are representing those workers who are

0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.520
<v Speaker 2>at risk. The Construction Union, so the CFMAU has been

0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.760
<v Speaker 2>pushing to ban and what it calls kill a Stone,

0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.680
<v Speaker 2>and it launched a campaign sharing stories of workers who

0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.200
<v Speaker 2>have become sick from being exposed to silica dust.

0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.599
<v Speaker 4>Instead of planning a family. We're planning my funeral. I

0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.760
<v Speaker 4>used to cut kitchen bench tops. People liked engineered stone

0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.600
<v Speaker 4>because it was cheaper, but the dust got into my lungs,

0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.839
<v Speaker 4>causing incurable, deadly silicosis. That's too high a price for

0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.440
<v Speaker 4>anyone to pay. Nothing will save myne But if you

0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:05.040
<v Speaker 4>join the campaign to stop the importation and manufacture of

0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.200
<v Speaker 4>engineered stone, you can help save someone else's. Please.

0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.080
<v Speaker 2>It's not just the unions. There've also been some public

0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.920
<v Speaker 2>health experts who have been demanding changes, and they've been

0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.640
<v Speaker 2>saying that in order to protect workers, you can't actually

0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.920
<v Speaker 2>have them cutting any engineered stone that contained silica dust. Now,

0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.960
<v Speaker 2>the movement's gained more momentum since the national workplace safety

0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.360
<v Speaker 2>authority safe Work Australia published a report in October and

0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.200
<v Speaker 2>that recommended a total ban on all engineered stone products.

0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.799
<v Speaker 2>But ultimately the decision to ban the stone actually lies

0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:40.880
<v Speaker 2>with the states and the territories.

0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.080
<v Speaker 3>So this report got handed down in October with quite

0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.720
<v Speaker 3>a conclusive finding. Did governments agree to a ban after.

0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.280
<v Speaker 2>That, Well, actually it was retailers who responded before we'd

0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.520
<v Speaker 2>heard from the government. So some retailers that sell engineered

0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Stone responded pretty quickly to the Safe Work Report, whichaw

0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.039
<v Speaker 2>Bunnings and Ikia both announced that they'd stop selling it

0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.839
<v Speaker 2>in the weeks after the recommendation was handed down. Since then,

0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.960
<v Speaker 2>industrial relations ministers from around the country, so those representing

0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:13.160
<v Speaker 2>the states and the territories, have met to discuss the

0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:17.000
<v Speaker 2>recommended ban, and then on Wednesday last week, they agreed

0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:21.320
<v Speaker 2>to phase out engineered stone altogether. Pretty big news. They

0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.480
<v Speaker 2>have announced that they'll be a ban on using, manufacturing,

0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:26.640
<v Speaker 2>and installing engineered stone.

0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.800
<v Speaker 3>And how does that actually happen in practice? So all

0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.320
<v Speaker 3>the ministers get together, they decide this product is no

0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.640
<v Speaker 3>longer going to be available. What happens now?

0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.280
<v Speaker 2>So each jurisdiction will look at when to actually introduce

0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.520
<v Speaker 2>the ban. So most states and territories have said that

0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.560
<v Speaker 2>their bands will take effect from July one next year,

0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.480
<v Speaker 2>and I presume that's just for the transition period. There

0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.520
<v Speaker 2>are definitely more details that will need to be determined though,

0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.960
<v Speaker 2>and that will happen at another meeting in March next year,

0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.160
<v Speaker 2>where ministers will consider things like what happens to builders

0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.040
<v Speaker 2>who have contracts to install engineered stone products.

0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure or some are halfway built but.

0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Workplace Ministers did agree the other day that these builders

0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.720
<v Speaker 2>will have a grace period to fulfill their obligations and

0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.720
<v Speaker 2>implement the ban. The federal government has also indicated that

0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.640
<v Speaker 2>it's looking at banning the import of engineered stone in Australia.

0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.120
<v Speaker 3>And how's this ban been received? So when now a

0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.120
<v Speaker 3>couple of days out from the Wednesday announcement.

0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.880
<v Speaker 2>So unions have understandably welcomed the decision. The Australian Council

0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.320
<v Speaker 2>of Trade Unions said it will save lives and prioritizes

0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.640
<v Speaker 2>workers ahead of corporate profits. There has been some opposition

0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.679
<v Speaker 2>to the ban, mostly from the engineered stone suppliers themselves.

0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:40.160
<v Speaker 2>The Australian Engineered Stone Advisory Group, which represents those suppliers,

0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.000
<v Speaker 2>has rolled out a petition against the ban, saying it

0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.439
<v Speaker 2>won't solve silicosis.

0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.520
<v Speaker 3>And it makes sense that if they are representing the

0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.320
<v Speaker 3>producers of that material that they're against it. Have they

0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:54.560
<v Speaker 3>recommended any alternatives or other ways to get the desired result?

0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so a good question. Instead of a ban, the

0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.760
<v Speaker 2>group says it wants to improve safety regulations for workers

0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.360
<v Speaker 2>and have an exemption for engineered stone that's less than

0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.600
<v Speaker 2>forty percent silica from any of these bands. It is

0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.120
<v Speaker 2>important to note here that the forty percent figure has

0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.560
<v Speaker 2>been described as flawed by health experts who say there's

0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.160
<v Speaker 2>no safe level of exposure to silica dust at all.

0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.480
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so, while there's still some details to iron out

0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.240
<v Speaker 3>in this plan and we'll wait for that meeting of

0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.480
<v Speaker 3>State and territory industrial leaders in March, it's clear that

0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.840
<v Speaker 3>we are going to see less engineered stone in Australia

0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.880
<v Speaker 3>and eventually you'd think no engineered stone in Australia. Thanks

0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.320
<v Speaker 3>for taking us through that, Zara, and thank you for

0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.360
<v Speaker 3>listening to that episode of The Daily Os. That's our

0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.000
<v Speaker 3>Monday episode for you. If you've got any thoughts that

0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.200
<v Speaker 3>you'd like to share on today's podcast, leave a comment

0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.439
<v Speaker 3>on Spotify just underneath this episode. We'll be back in

0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.280
<v Speaker 3>your ears again tomorrow morning. Until then, have a great day,