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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Monday,

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Speaker 2: the eighteenth of December.

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Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Sam.

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Speaker 2: This week Australia became the first country in the world

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Speaker 2: to ban engineered stone.

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Speaker 4: Engineered stone is killing workers right now in the factories

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Speaker 4: where workers are working with it and on.

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Speaker 1: Site where workers are also installing it.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: Engineered stone has become a popular and more affordable alternative

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Speaker 2: to natural stone, so things like marble in bathrooms and kitchens,

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Speaker 2: but it contains a dangerous and potentially life threatening substance.

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Speaker 2: In today's deep Dive, we'll tell you more about engineered

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Speaker 2: stone and unpack this new band before we get there, though, Sam,

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Speaker 2: what's making headlines.

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Speaker 3: Local mayors in areas of North Queensland affected by major

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Speaker 3: flooding have backed calls for Australian Defense Force personnel to

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Speaker 3: be called into the region to help with disaster relief efforts.

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Speaker 3: It's the worst flood in Cansas history, with waterways three

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Speaker 3: meters above major flood levels and they have now exceeded

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Speaker 3: the levels set by the previous record, which was in

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven. Can's airport remains closed and ten five

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Speaker 3: hundred homes remain without power.

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Speaker 2: The Australian Medical Association is calling for the federal government

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Speaker 2: to introduce minimum rebates for private health insurance customers. The

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Speaker 2: AMA's latest Health Insurance report card found significant variations across

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Speaker 2: rebates for identical procedures from different insurers. The report also

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Speaker 2: found health insurantfits increased by one point three billion dollars

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Speaker 2: this year compared to the twenty twenty twenty twenty one

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Speaker 2: financial year.

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Speaker 3: And the Australian men's cricket team have recorded a victory

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Speaker 3: over Pakistan in the first Test of Australia's home summer

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Speaker 3: series in Western Australia. The highlight of the test was

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Speaker 3: the five hundredth Test wicket taken by spinner Nathan Lyon.

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Speaker 3: He becomes only the third Australian men's cricketer to reach

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Speaker 3: that milestone behind only Shane Warn and Glenn McGrath. Australia

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Speaker 3: beat Pakistan by three hundred and sixty runs.

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Speaker 2: And the good news, A treatment using the medical technology

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Speaker 2: from the Maderna and Phizer COVID vaccines has been found

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Speaker 2: to successfully reduce the risk of skin cancer recurring. A

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Speaker 2: clinical trial of over one hundred and fifty patients with

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Speaker 2: high risk melanoma found the Maderna Merk treatment, which uses

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Speaker 2: mRNA technology, reduced the risk of skin cancer occurrence and

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Speaker 2: death by nearly fifty percent when used after surgery. All right, so, Sam,

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Speaker 2: there is a lot to unpack in this story. Over

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Speaker 2: recent years, and certainly this year, we've been hearing more

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Speaker 2: and more about engineered stone, which is also called manufactured stone,

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Speaker 2: and more specifically calls for it to be banned.

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Speaker 3: So is this not natural stone, right, It's a different substance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So think of a kitchen bench top which can

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Speaker 2: be made out of stones like granite and marble. These

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Speaker 2: are natural stones and they can look great, but they're

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Speaker 2: also pretty expensive. So essentially, engineered stone is a cheaper,

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Speaker 2: man made alternative to these stones. So no, not a

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Speaker 2: natural stone, a cheaper alternative.

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Speaker 3: And I kind of know the reputation of marble is

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Speaker 3: being super expensive, especially if it's in one big slab.

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Speaker 3: So what's the danger then with the man made engineered stone?

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Speaker 2: So the issue with engineered stone actually comes from a

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Speaker 2: mineral it contains called crystalline silica. Now, engineered stone isn't

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Speaker 2: dangerous once it's installed, but whenever a construction worker or

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Speaker 2: a stone may s and needs to cut or drill

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Speaker 2: or polish it, these small dust particles are released. And

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Speaker 2: these particles contain crystalline silica. Now, this dust is extremely

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Speaker 2: dangerous to breathe in. It can cause a lung disease

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Speaker 2: called silicosis.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So if you have one of these engineered benchtops

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Speaker 3: installed in your home, that's not the problem we're looking at, right,

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Speaker 3: It's the actual construction correct cutting. It's the people that

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Speaker 3: are working on getting it into the home and actually

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Speaker 3: providing that. Okay. And if the implications here is that

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Speaker 3: you can develop silicosis, what do we know about how

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Speaker 3: dangerous silicosis can be?

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Speaker 2: So, I mean it can be fatal, right, And the

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Speaker 2: group that's most risk of being diagnosed with silicosis, as

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Speaker 2: I just alluded to tradees, the people who are actually

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Speaker 2: working with the stone. It's estimated that about ten thousand

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Speaker 2: people around the world have died from silicosis. It's also incurable,

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Speaker 2: so once you've been diagnosed with it, it stays with

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Speaker 2: you forever.

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Speaker 3: And what do we know about silicosis in Australia right now?

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Speaker 2: So a study from Curtain University last year estimated roughly

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Speaker 2: five hundred and eighty thousand Australian workers have been exposed

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Speaker 2: in some capacity to silica dust, so not necessarily that

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Speaker 2: they have then had it progress into silicosis, but that

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Speaker 2: they've been exposed to it.

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Speaker 3: But that's an insane number of people in the population

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Speaker 3: of Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so there have been these calls then to

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Speaker 2: ban the stone altogether to protect these trades who are

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Speaker 2: being exposed to it. And it's mostly been a call

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Speaker 2: from the unions who are representing those workers who are

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Speaker 2: at risk. The Construction Union, so the CFMAU has been

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Speaker 2: pushing to ban and what it calls kill a Stone,

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Speaker 2: and it launched a campaign sharing stories of workers who

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Speaker 2: have become sick from being exposed to silica dust.

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Speaker 4: Instead of planning a family. We're planning my funeral. I

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Speaker 4: used to cut kitchen bench tops. People liked engineered stone

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Speaker 4: because it was cheaper, but the dust got into my lungs,

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Speaker 4: causing incurable, deadly silicosis. That's too high a price for

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Speaker 4: anyone to pay. Nothing will save myne But if you

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Speaker 4: join the campaign to stop the importation and manufacture of

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Speaker 4: engineered stone, you can help save someone else's. Please.

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Speaker 2: It's not just the unions. There've also been some public

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Speaker 2: health experts who have been demanding changes, and they've been

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Speaker 2: saying that in order to protect workers, you can't actually

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Speaker 2: have them cutting any engineered stone that contained silica dust. Now,

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Speaker 2: the movement's gained more momentum since the national workplace safety

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Speaker 2: authority safe Work Australia published a report in October and

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Speaker 2: that recommended a total ban on all engineered stone products.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately the decision to ban the stone actually lies

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Speaker 2: with the states and the territories.

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Speaker 3: So this report got handed down in October with quite

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Speaker 3: a conclusive finding. Did governments agree to a ban after.

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Speaker 2: That, Well, actually it was retailers who responded before we'd

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Speaker 2: heard from the government. So some retailers that sell engineered

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Speaker 2: Stone responded pretty quickly to the Safe Work Report, whichaw

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Speaker 2: Bunnings and Ikia both announced that they'd stop selling it

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Speaker 2: in the weeks after the recommendation was handed down. Since then,

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Speaker 2: industrial relations ministers from around the country, so those representing

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Speaker 2: the states and the territories, have met to discuss the

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Speaker 2: recommended ban, and then on Wednesday last week, they agreed

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Speaker 2: to phase out engineered stone altogether. Pretty big news. They

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Speaker 2: have announced that they'll be a ban on using, manufacturing,

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Speaker 2: and installing engineered stone.

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Speaker 3: And how does that actually happen in practice? So all

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Speaker 3: the ministers get together, they decide this product is no

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Speaker 3: longer going to be available. What happens now?

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Speaker 2: So each jurisdiction will look at when to actually introduce

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Speaker 2: the ban. So most states and territories have said that

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Speaker 2: their bands will take effect from July one next year,

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Speaker 2: and I presume that's just for the transition period. There

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Speaker 2: are definitely more details that will need to be determined though,

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Speaker 2: and that will happen at another meeting in March next year,

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Speaker 2: where ministers will consider things like what happens to builders

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Speaker 2: who have contracts to install engineered stone products.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure or some are halfway built but.

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Speaker 2: Workplace Ministers did agree the other day that these builders

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Speaker 2: will have a grace period to fulfill their obligations and

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Speaker 2: implement the ban. The federal government has also indicated that

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Speaker 2: it's looking at banning the import of engineered stone in Australia.

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Speaker 3: And how's this ban been received? So when now a

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Speaker 3: couple of days out from the Wednesday announcement.

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Speaker 2: So unions have understandably welcomed the decision. The Australian Council

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Speaker 2: of Trade Unions said it will save lives and prioritizes

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Speaker 2: workers ahead of corporate profits. There has been some opposition

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Speaker 2: to the ban, mostly from the engineered stone suppliers themselves.

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Speaker 2: The Australian Engineered Stone Advisory Group, which represents those suppliers,

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Speaker 2: has rolled out a petition against the ban, saying it

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Speaker 2: won't solve silicosis.

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Speaker 3: And it makes sense that if they are representing the

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Speaker 3: producers of that material that they're against it. Have they

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Speaker 3: recommended any alternatives or other ways to get the desired result?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so a good question. Instead of a ban, the

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Speaker 2: group says it wants to improve safety regulations for workers

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Speaker 2: and have an exemption for engineered stone that's less than

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Speaker 2: forty percent silica from any of these bands. It is

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Speaker 2: important to note here that the forty percent figure has

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Speaker 2: been described as flawed by health experts who say there's

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Speaker 2: no safe level of exposure to silica dust at all.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so, while there's still some details to iron out

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Speaker 3: in this plan and we'll wait for that meeting of

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Speaker 3: State and territory industrial leaders in March, it's clear that

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Speaker 3: we are going to see less engineered stone in Australia

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Speaker 3: and eventually you'd think no engineered stone in Australia. Thanks

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Speaker 3: for taking us through that, Zara, and thank you for

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Speaker 3: listening to that episode of The Daily Os. That's our

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Speaker 3: Monday episode for you. If you've got any thoughts that

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Speaker 3: you'd like to share on today's podcast, leave a comment

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Speaker 3: on Spotify just underneath this episode. We'll be back in

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Speaker 3: your ears again tomorrow morning. Until then, have a great day,