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Speaker 1: Here at Two Good Sports, we would like to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land on which we record

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Speaker 1: this podcast. There were innerie people. This land was never seated,

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Speaker 1: always was always will be. Oh hello, and I'm welcome

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Speaker 1: to two Good Sports sports news sold differently.

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Speaker 2: I'm Georgie Tunnet.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Abby Jelmy and Georgie. This morning I witnessed

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Speaker 3: what is being called one of the greatest achievements by

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Speaker 3: an Australian coach.

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Speaker 4: Wow, how I lifted the veil on when we record?

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Speaker 3: Maybe, but I'm just letting I'm getting into my good

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Speaker 3: sport early because a posta conglou Can you damn well

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Speaker 3: believe it? Well he did, because he always says I

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Speaker 3: deliver trophies in my second season. And what has he

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Speaker 3: done at Tottenham Hotspur the perennial almost winners.

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Speaker 4: Yes, they got a trophy this morning.

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Speaker 1: The Europaly actually have some silverware, defeating once brilliant, now.

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Speaker 2: Very very very average.

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Speaker 1: Underlined club Manchester United in the Europa League Final.

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Speaker 3: It's still a big club, right, A huge club club,

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Speaker 3: a big moment and both teams came into this morning

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Speaker 3: with so much pride on the line, and you know,

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Speaker 3: when there's pride on the line, there's other trophies that

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Speaker 3: you'd like to be winning, because it wasn't necessarily about

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Speaker 3: the silverware, but for and it's just been the most

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Speaker 3: tumultuous time. We've heard the quotes, we've seen the pressure

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Speaker 3: that he's been under. I mean, the one this week

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Speaker 3: was I'm not a clown.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a clown.

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Speaker 4: I'm not a clown, even.

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Speaker 1: If with a particular journalist at a press conference who'd

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Speaker 1: written an article earlier on that day naming him a clown,

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Speaker 1: and he.

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Speaker 3: Was well saying he might be a clown, and he's like,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what happens, I'm.

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Speaker 4: Never a clown, never a clown. And and you'll be terrifying.

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Speaker 4: I reckon if he singled you.

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Speaker 3: Out, Oh, if he stared you down a presser and

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Speaker 3: when Georgie, what do you think of that?

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Speaker 4: I'd be like, sorry, sir, sorry.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, like two bags full, sir, I'm going to leave.

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Speaker 4: So we digress.

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Speaker 3: It has been seventeen years since they've won any silverware

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Speaker 3: and to do the scenes this morning were just incredible.

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Speaker 3: And again, this is an Ossie in the most competitive

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Speaker 3: sport in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, and just achieving things on the big

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Speaker 1: stage that ossies don't do. We don't do this, And

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Speaker 1: I think that for everyone who maybe just knows Angeposteracoglu

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Speaker 1: on the periphery and what he had done in the

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Speaker 1: leagues in Australia in particular, and of course what he's

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Speaker 1: done with the Soccaroos as a team. It's a feel

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Speaker 1: good story because he is someone who's seen he looks

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Speaker 1: he's a cuddly teddy bear. I mean, he looks prickly,

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Speaker 1: he sounds prickly a lot of the time. But I

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Speaker 1: actually think he's one of those man managers who just

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Speaker 1: wants what's best for his team.

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Speaker 2: There's a bit of ted Lasso in him.

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Speaker 4: There is a little bit. It's a little bit of

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Speaker 4: ted Lasso.

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Speaker 3: There's stories about the fact that he shakes everyone's hand

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Speaker 3: when he enters the club.

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Speaker 4: He speaks Ozzie Boy, he speaks in some of the

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Speaker 4: great quotes.

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Speaker 3: You think, oh, we don't need to use that, and

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Speaker 3: then he'll be like, if it looks like a fish,

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Speaker 3: barks like a fish as a fish, and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: love of God, that's too good, We've got to use that.

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Speaker 3: He's just his genius and we talk about the pressure

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Speaker 3: that our coaches are under a lot, but to say

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Speaker 3: that this was potentially career saving, like, that's not me,

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Speaker 3: that's not hyperbole at all.

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Speaker 4: He still could lose his own which is ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Even though he has delivered Tottenham their first trophy in

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Speaker 1: seventeen years, and they do as a club and as

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Speaker 1: a board have a reputation that if a coach sneeze

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Speaker 1: is in the wrong way, they're.

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Speaker 4: Like, ah, not for you, next move on, move on.

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Speaker 4: Oh that could be contigious, honestly.

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Speaker 3: So the fact that again he has delivered civil where

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Speaker 3: in his second season, and again we cannot overstate just

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Speaker 3: how bad the injuries were throughout the season, and the

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Speaker 3: way that football is structured in Europe. You've got Premier League,

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Speaker 3: you've got now Champions League and Europa League and different

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Speaker 3: things happening where you have to perform at such a

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Speaker 3: high level and have a squad that are fit and healthy,

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Speaker 3: and he just hasn't had that available to him.

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Speaker 1: No, I'd like to think he's been in the boxing

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Speaker 1: ring with two hands tied behind his back.

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Speaker 4: Series essentially is what he's had.

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Speaker 3: And I'd like to think that fans are emotional, and

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Speaker 3: of course we are.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 3: The fact, the fact that they're all losing it this morning,

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Speaker 3: I think that that will mean that the.

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Speaker 4: Club can't shelve him.

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Speaker 1: Now, hopefully just one more season, one more seats, one

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Speaker 1: more season, one more season that we we don't have

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Speaker 1: to say Ozzy and Posta conglu.

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Speaker 4: Of course, it doesn't mean that something really killed me.

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Speaker 3: In general news is when you're talking about Oscar Piastre

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Speaker 3: or a Posta Coglu.

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Speaker 4: Yes, before those names you have to put Ossie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still Ossie Downiel Ricardo like them forever. That's

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Speaker 1: our Yeah, that will be with them forever.

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Speaker 4: Why yeah, yeah, because people love it.

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Speaker 3: People love to be like we claim things that aren't

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Speaker 3: all the time, you don't have general knowledge.

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Speaker 4: They're like Postocoglu, that's not us, Piastree, what what Pastry?

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Speaker 2: Who's that man? That can't be Australian Riccardo.

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Speaker 4: No, now, it'll be.

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Speaker 2: With us, It'll be with us forever, don't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's about It's not the last we're going

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Speaker 3: to hear from it. But I just love that he

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Speaker 3: stuck his neck out and was like I always win

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Speaker 3: trophies in my second year and every media was like

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Speaker 3: a benchmark because that's what we're always looking for, Like,

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Speaker 3: what's your KPI?

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Speaker 4: What do you need from this season?

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Speaker 3: He's like, I win trophies And now he's like yeah,

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Speaker 3: bloody see.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's like told you, I told you guys. And

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Speaker 4: one nail score by the way, yeah it was.

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Speaker 5: Lost to you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm no spoiler alert good sport.

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Speaker 1: I also have a good sport. Dare I say a

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Speaker 1: great speek about one for a while? No, no, we haven't.

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Speaker 1: I want to focus on a club that I barely

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Speaker 1: ever mention on this podcast. This may be the first

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Speaker 1: time I've said the Brisbane Broncos are Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Do you know that?

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Speaker 2: I don't talk.

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Speaker 4: Where were they?

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Speaker 1: They're the rdos today because they have launched one of

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Speaker 1: the best initiatives and jerseys that I have seen. We

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Speaker 1: know that we love a jersey on this podcast, we

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Speaker 1: talk about them often. They have released an all black

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Speaker 1: jersey in collaboration with the Black Dog Institute, raising awareness

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Speaker 1: for mental health.

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Speaker 4: Here's how they did it.

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Speaker 6: This jersey is a symbol, a symbol of dark statistics,

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Speaker 6: but also of courage and mental health impacts everything. The Broncos,

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Speaker 6: alongside Black Dog Institute are shining a light on mental

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Speaker 6: health to turn the statistics around. Sometimes all it could

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Speaker 6: take is someone.

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Speaker 5: To turn on the lights.

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Speaker 2: Oh I just got chills.

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Speaker 1: And they've put a spotlight on this Jersey, yes, but

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Speaker 1: on mental health for a while now. But this initiative

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Speaker 1: in particular, it's already showing. We've got evidence that it

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Speaker 1: is reaching different corners that potentially rugby league doesn't usually.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Orange, friend of the podcast on the Record now

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Speaker 1: are saying that his new rugby league team is the

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Speaker 1: Prisbone Broncos based off of this and everything that is

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Speaker 1: happening in the wider in wider sport across the country.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's such a big conversation to have.

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Speaker 1: It's an important conversation to have, and well done. Credits

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Speaker 1: where credits due. We are always asking for our athletes,

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Speaker 1: for our clubs to be the mirror that we need

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Speaker 1: to see and to be our role models, and that

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Speaker 1: is what they are doing. Do I need to get

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Speaker 1: into Rece Walsh then having a controversial video.

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Speaker 2: Punching his friend in the head.

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Speaker 1: No, no, we're not going to talk about that without

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Speaker 1: focus on the good things.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Race Walsh if he wasn't so pretty. It

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Speaker 4: was just just silly, silly thing.

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Speaker 2: I know, silly, silly, silly, silly, silly silly.

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Speaker 4: But let's not let it.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to let it take any more shine

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Speaker 1: off what was a wonderful initiative at a very very

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Speaker 1: They didn't do this on purpose, but the timing of this.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes timing is magical. Things just seem to fall into place.

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Speaker 1: And with the big, heavy conversations that we are having

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Speaker 1: at the moment in the sporting community, I just think

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Speaker 1: that this is a really lovely moment.

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Speaker 4: It really is.

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Speaker 3: And you mentioned George that it is men's mental health

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Speaker 3: is really at the forefront at the moment across all sport,

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Speaker 3: but particularly I think in Australian minds after some of

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Speaker 3: the news that we heard over the weekend, and that's

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Speaker 3: going to be a main discussion today.

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Speaker 4: And we have a special guest.

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Speaker 7: Too, Spud, you that it would take more than just

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Speaker 7: words to create.

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Speaker 8: Meaningful and sustainable change.

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Speaker 9: It would take people like all.

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Speaker 8: Of you here tonight at the MCG and of course

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Speaker 8: those of you who are watching and listening along at home.

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Speaker 8: And so I put it back on all of us,

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Speaker 8: if you can put your hand up and support Spud's Game.

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Speaker 9: By donating this year. Please do.

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Speaker 8: If you can put your hand up and be a

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Speaker 8: leader in your own communities and support the mental health

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Speaker 8: of people around you, please do.

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Speaker 9: But when it.

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Speaker 8: Comes to checking on on your mates, now, I think

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Speaker 8: that's a non negotiable, A one percent we would call

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Speaker 8: it in footy, those small but very very critical tasks

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Speaker 8: that need to be done and require no skill, no talent.

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Speaker 8: What they do require is character, conviction and courage. So

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Speaker 8: give us your courage when it comes to checking in

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Speaker 8: on your mates and watch those one percenters grow and

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Speaker 8: turn into something that may very well save someone's life.

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Speaker 1: Twenty sixteen Premiership player for the Western Bulldogs and former

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Speaker 1: number one draft pick Tom Boyd, speaking there ahead of

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Speaker 1: Spud's game earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: Spud's Game is held.

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Speaker 1: In honor of Danny Frawley, a former Saint Kilda Hall

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Speaker 1: of Famer who died by suicide in twenty nineteen and has,

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Speaker 1: as we can see and feel, left an indelible mark

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Speaker 1: not only on the game itself but the wider sporting community.

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Speaker 1: And Tom Boyd, who's spoken openly about having his own

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Speaker 1: mental health battles and that that meant that he left

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Speaker 1: the game earlier than what he planned to. But this all,

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Speaker 1: and this wider conversation about mental health in sport, has

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Speaker 1: been framed by some tragic passings that we've had in

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Speaker 1: the AFL community. On Saturday, we lost Adam Selwood. He

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Speaker 1: passed away at forty one, mere three months after his

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Speaker 1: brother Troy, and the cell would family to say that

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Speaker 1: they are much loved among the AFL communities, somewhat understating it.

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Speaker 1: I think this one winded me. I know Adam, I

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Speaker 1: knew Adam. I went to school with his wife. It

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Speaker 1: is tragic, and we're.

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Speaker 3: Not going to go into the accolades of what Adam

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Speaker 3: achieved as an athlete or who he was as a person,

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Speaker 3: because I think their stories for his family to tell. Yes,

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Speaker 3: But we as people who are in a platform where

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Speaker 3: we talk about sports, sat back and went, what now,

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Speaker 3: what do we do? Because it's happening too often, George,

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Speaker 3: and we see these statistics around how much more likely

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Speaker 3: men are to take their lives than women.

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Speaker 1: Three times in this country, men three times more likely

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Speaker 1: to die by suicide than women.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, what do we do? Yeah, that's the conversation.

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Speaker 1: That's the conversation that we are hoping dear listeners to

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Speaker 1: begin for you today because if you're like Jelmy and I,

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Speaker 1: you would have seen the news over the weekend, regardless

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Speaker 1: of if you follow Aussie rules or not. This has

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Speaker 1: affected people who don't even know anything about sport because

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Speaker 1: it's the human element, it's the human story behind this,

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Speaker 1: and everyone knows or you get to a certain age

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Speaker 1: and you at least have been directly affected or know

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Speaker 1: someone who has been affected by mental health by suicide.

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Speaker 1: So we are wanting to have the conversation about what

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Speaker 1: you can do because a lot of times it feels hopeless,

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Speaker 1: It feels really hopeless. This is a big conversation. You go,

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Speaker 1: what on earth what part can I have in this?

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Speaker 1: And that's where we want to begin today. And we

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Speaker 1: have a very special guest, the most special guest. And

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Speaker 1: I will be the first to say this is my idea.

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Speaker 3: This wasn't Georgie's idea, although she very much supported it,

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Speaker 3: because I was like, we just need someone who can

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Speaker 3: have the conversation with us as women on how we

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Speaker 3: have these conversations with men and how we frame it.

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Speaker 3: But also I think we need to have a blokes

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Speaker 3: perspective on this, and someone who has felt the pressures

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Speaker 3: but also has done research in this area. And I

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Speaker 3: was like, Oh, if only we had someone who'd written

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Speaker 3: a book called putting on a show about manhood, mates

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Speaker 3: and mental health and a little bit about what's going

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Speaker 3: on behind the bravado of the average assy bloke.

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Speaker 2: Who who could we have enter the.

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Speaker 3: Conversation, Rob Mills, George Is, Beyonce Robert.

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Speaker 5: It's not the circumstances I thought I would be here first,

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Speaker 5: my first time on the show, but long time listener,

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Speaker 5: thank you so much for having me. Yeah, look pretty sad,

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Speaker 5: tragic circumstances to have me on board, but look always

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Speaker 5: happy to have the chat around this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 5: A vulnerable conversation is the thing we talk about all

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Speaker 5: the time about that are you ok da promoted? And

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Speaker 5: how do you have those conversations? How do you set

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Speaker 5: them up? It's different for every everyone. I'm going to

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Speaker 5: generalize here, but women are so good at having real

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Speaker 5: conversations because it starts at a younger age. You look

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Speaker 5: at just in the playground, what are boys doing in

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Speaker 5: the playground? Most of the time I'm generally speaking here,

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Speaker 5: but they're out kicking the footy, they're running run around.

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Speaker 4: I can attest to this monster trucks.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they're roughing each other up. And most times girls

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Speaker 5: are sitting around and.

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Speaker 9: Having a having having a chat about things.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we're not good at it, and being told that

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Speaker 5: we're shit at it. So can I say it doesn't help?

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Speaker 5: Doesn't help the conversation women, if you're better at it,

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Speaker 5: help us, help help the men in your life to

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Speaker 5: have those conversations. It's going to be a different conversation

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Speaker 5: than what you're used to having because we don't we

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Speaker 5: don't like it.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to butt in here, though, baby, because

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Speaker 1: because how how do you have those conversations? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've had them with you a lot, so that's like

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Speaker 1: half our life is us just talking. But there will

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Speaker 1: be times where you go off and meet your friends

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Speaker 1: and some of your closest friends and I'll be like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, what's happening with that incredibly important issue

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Speaker 1: that was very very new and most recent. It's all

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about for the last four weeks. And

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, we didn't talk about.

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Speaker 5: It, Yeah, we just talk about other stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you really do so.

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Speaker 5: I think. I think for a lot of blogs, it's

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Speaker 5: a lot of surface chat, it's a lot of banter,

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Speaker 5: and it's only until it gets to like dire circumstances

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Speaker 5: do we choose to open up. But that's why it's

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Speaker 5: in important to create those spaces for our mates, whether

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Speaker 5: it's our partners or friends or a family member. It's

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Speaker 5: getting them into a position where you feel most comfortable

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Speaker 5: to be vulnerable, and that for a lot of time

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Speaker 5: is an activity, and a lot of time for blokes,

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Speaker 5: it's one on one. It could be driving in the

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Speaker 5: car for me, I know, on long walks sometimes just

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Speaker 5: with one on one, or just sometimes in a group

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Speaker 5: with mates. We share a lot of stuff, which is excellent,

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Speaker 5: but I can't do it every weekend. It's so exhausting,

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Speaker 5: can you imagine. I mean, I don't know how you

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Speaker 5: guys do it, talk about it all the time, but

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Speaker 5: I'm really fortunate. Georgie and I've we've got some pretty

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Speaker 5: good what do you call systems in place?

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Speaker 2: We sound like, yeah, that sounds but you do.

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Speaker 3: We go to walks, Yeah, you know, how best to

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Speaker 3: have the other person feel secure or what works for

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Speaker 3: each other, which is part of having these relationship dynamics work.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of the time as women, like,

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Speaker 3: for instance, if I know that Georgie or if I'm

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Speaker 3: sensing that Georgie might be a well and with a

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Speaker 3: few things that are going on, and vice versa, I

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Speaker 3: will take her out for coffee, holder hands, sit opposite

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Speaker 3: her and say, babe, you're okay, and we'll go no,

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Speaker 3: we're not. No, and where that's just how we communicate.

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Speaker 4: Where is it so right?

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Speaker 5: Can I say that sounds amazing? But that is that

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Speaker 5: is terrifying from most blokes. For you to look at

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Speaker 5: me and see your beautiful judging eyes on me like

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Speaker 5: that's you want to run because you don't put it

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Speaker 5: down correct, So it's side by side is probably the

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Speaker 5: best way. Like in a car, you don't feel as threatened.

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Speaker 5: So if you are having trouble communicating with your partner,

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Speaker 5: getting the car and go for a drive together, because

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Speaker 5: there's something about your eyes darting side to side away

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Speaker 5: from any judgment could quite often help alleviate that whatever

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Speaker 5: stress or to unlock that sort of vulnerability.

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Speaker 3: But virtue, the focus isn't on you have to focus

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Speaker 3: on the stop sign.

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Speaker 4: On different things as well.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, or do an activity together, and.

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Speaker 3: Also to like, again in the context of sport, maybe

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Speaker 3: don't try to have this conversation while your partner's watching sport.

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Speaker 2: I tried this is you're picking up on things.

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Speaker 1: I literally tried to do this the other day to

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Speaker 1: Rob it because I was like, we had something big

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Speaker 1: to discuss and he was talking about something else.

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Speaker 10: I was and I was like, oh my gosh, the

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Speaker 10: discussion is open.

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Speaker 2: I have the platform, like I just launched, and he

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Speaker 2: was like.

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Speaker 10: No, I don't want to talk about that right now,

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Speaker 10: and then like completely shut down.

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh no, I ruined it. I ruined it.

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Speaker 2: To bring it back to the wider sporting arena.

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Speaker 10: When you're in the sheds as you have been, I mean,

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Speaker 10: do you think that part of the difficulty for athletes,

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Speaker 10: for our young men, is that they have been raised

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Speaker 10: to try and show no vulnerability.

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Speaker 2: Like you just talked about it.

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Speaker 1: Then it's like it's about finding that vulnerability, finding that

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Speaker 1: space that you feel comfortable enough to open up. But

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Speaker 1: if you are an athlete, especially in an elite athlete,

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Speaker 1: you have been trained not to do that. You don't

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Speaker 1: want there to be a chink in the armor you

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Speaker 1: don't want you can't afford that.

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Speaker 5: I can't speak for every bloke, but if if you're

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Speaker 5: talking about football, like whether it's rugby league or you're

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Speaker 5: talking about contact sport, you sort of your mind is

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Speaker 5: somewhere else. You're not after after a game, you're coming

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Speaker 5: down from actual like.

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Speaker 9: It's war on the on the footy field.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it's the time that you want to

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Speaker 5: be like, so tell me about Sharon, what's happening at home?

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Speaker 5: Like it's you just I think it's away from the club.

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Speaker 1: But but why aren't the players having those conversations.

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Speaker 9: I'll do say one thing.

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Speaker 5: For football clubs and for any kind of sporting club,

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Speaker 5: there's such great environments for blokes to know that they're.

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Speaker 9: Part of a community.

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Speaker 5: A lot of a lot of mental illness comes from

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Speaker 5: being alone or feeling alone. And we talk about this

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Speaker 5: thing about a problem. A problem shared is a problem halved.

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Speaker 5: A lot of times blokes don't want to burden other

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Speaker 5: other blokes. But a football club is it, or a

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Speaker 5: netball club or hockey club, whatever wherever you're playing in

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Speaker 5: is a really great space for to find your sensens

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Speaker 5: of community. So you can, you can share those problems

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Speaker 5: with other people. And once that, once that stops, once

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Speaker 5: you retire, you don't have that anymore. You don't have

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Speaker 5: that constant two times a week or three times a

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Speaker 5: week of those contact hours with people, Then what.

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Speaker 9: Do you call someone up? You gonna be vulnerable on

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Speaker 9: the phone.

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Speaker 5: It's quite difficult for a lot of for a lot

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Speaker 5: of blokes to reach out because we don't we don't

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Speaker 5: want a burden.

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Speaker 9: So that's why I always think, what happens after footy?

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Speaker 5: What are you doing? What were the things? What were

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Speaker 5: those contact hours with mates? How do you keep that up?

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Speaker 5: That's where every time you hear blokes wanting to go

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Speaker 5: play golf for their mates and for their partners to go.

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Speaker 5: But that's four hours, Like that is four hours of him.

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Speaker 4: Don't you dare Robert?

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Speaker 9: No, no, no, like it is.

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Speaker 5: It's a really important thing I think for blokes, whether

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Speaker 5: it's golf or whether it's model airplanes or whatever they're doing,

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Speaker 5: you know, like it's good to have those contact hours

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Speaker 5: away from your partner with friends. Maybe maybe one of

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Speaker 5: those conversations comes up in that if they don't have that,

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Speaker 5: they don't feel like they can share it with you

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Speaker 5: then anyway, then you seek professional help, which I highly

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Speaker 5: recommend as well.

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Speaker 4: We can talk about that, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 3: And I think when we talk about masculinity in relation

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Speaker 3: to sport, we're still experiencing a little bit of that

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Speaker 3: hangover of the nineties where masculinity was seen as you

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Speaker 3: get hit, but you get back up and never show

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Speaker 3: any weakness, you never show fear, and that then trickled

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Speaker 3: into how they would represent themselves emotionally. It was that idea,

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Speaker 3: there's no chink in my arms. I'm stoic, I'm strong,

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Speaker 3: I'm fine. I have to be fine because I am man.

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Speaker 9: I'm the rock, I'm a moving I'm the rock.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: And then now we've seen and it's been fantastic. Vulnerability

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Speaker 3: is almost a buzzword around sport and what makes teams great.

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Speaker 3: To think of Carlton, when they had that amazing turn

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Speaker 3: of events mid season, they said, yeah, because we all

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Speaker 3: got around a bonfire and we're vulnerable with one another

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Speaker 3: and shared how we were feeling in the connection. And

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Speaker 3: then next minute their whole season swung because we sat

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Speaker 3: as a group and said, right, oh, let's lean in.

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Speaker 3: But we also have to say that, especially when we're

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Speaker 3: referring to someone like Spud Frawley ex athlete. Mental health,

440
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 3: particularly in the lens of CTE is so nuanced and

441
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,479
Speaker 3: there's a lot of things play, which quite frankly, as

442
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 3: a mum of boys, is actually quite scary about whether

443
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 3: or not you have so much research to be done.

444
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 3: There is a direct link between those head high hits

445
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 3: and when it is coming into play for some men

446
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,199
Speaker 3: struggling with mental health, which is why when there's changes

447
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 3: to rules and people go you're ruining the fabric of

448
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 3: the game. I'm like, better than ruining the brains of

449
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 3: the players. Sorry, Like, sometimes there just needs to be changed.

450
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,200
Speaker 3: So we don't want to pretend that this is as

451
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 3: simple as learning how to have conversations, but is definitely

452
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 3: a part of it.

453
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 1: Robert Well, I'm interested in getting your opinion on, OK,

454
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 1: why are men so sad? It seems like at the moment,

455
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 1: in particular at this point in history, young ossie men,

456
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 1: but even older men, that they're sad.

457
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 5: Why do you think it could be part of society

458
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 5: telling them that that they're useless. You know, you go

459
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 5: back to our grandfather's age. They had a place, they

460
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 5: had had a role, they were the breadwinner, they were

461
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 5: all these things. Women have pivoted incredibly well, where women

462
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 5: are moving into traditional men's spaces and men are like, well,

463
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 5: what do I do? We haven't had the tools to

464
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 5: learn how to pivot into what let's call them traditional

465
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 5: female spaces, and that's really sad that men feel like

466
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 5: they are lost.

467
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,640
Speaker 9: That's why they're turning to different podcasters.

468
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 5: I won't name.

469
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: Names, and ideal role models maybe.

470
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, less than ideal, wrong, but the things that they

471
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,120
Speaker 5: that they see is what were traditional kind of male

472
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 5: role models back in the day. But I think the

473
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 5: world is changing. Men a fearful of change. We don't

474
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 5: talk about it enough. Probably, I think that's why there's

475
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 5: a bit of sadness. It's just not knowing, not knowing

476
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 5: who they are, what space they're meant to be in,

477
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 5: and instead of having a robust conversation with their mums,

478
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 5: their sisters, their female friends, they just haven't it. Maybe

479
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 5: with blokes a bit too much. But I guarantee you

480
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 5: it's not as bad as what people think it is.

481
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 5: As far as this inceell male chauvinist kind of toxic

482
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 5: masculinity kind of thing. You look at the blogs that

483
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 5: you know you look at the men that are in

484
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 5: your life, they are all good men. Look, there are

485
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 5: some bad men who have gone down at bad path.

486
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,479
Speaker 5: We've all watched the Netflix series Adolescents, and yes, there

487
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 5: could be a problem. But if you're aware of it,

488
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 5: why aren't we promoting the good men in our lives totally?

489
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 5: People that are doing good things. They don't have to

490
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 5: be they don't have to be saving the world, but

491
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 5: they just have to be kind, compassionate men.

492
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 9: I guarantee there are so many out there.

493
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 5: But I guarantee there's more good men in the world,

494
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 5: especially in Australia, than there are bad men. So I

495
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 5: think we should start promoting good men.

496
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: That's the antidote.

497
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 5: I think absolutely, like instead of shaming that these blogs

498
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 5: are blogs of crap, blogs of shit, toxic masculinity, like

499
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 5: blogs like what is masculinity? If you look up in

500
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 5: the dictionary it says attributes of a man. It's the

501
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 5: worst word ever, Like, what does even that mean? Like

502
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 5: it doesn't even mean anything. I really like this answer.

503
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 5: I asked this lady when I was researching the book.

504
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 5: She said, I think it's showing the appropriate emotion at

505
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 5: the appropriate time is a great way. Like if just

506
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 5: say that you need to push someone out of the

507
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 5: way or hold a door for some be chivalrous or

508
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 5: be strong, that's that's being masculine. But also if your

509
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 5: kid is crying, is to hold your kid, that's also

510
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 5: being masculine. Isn't it like he's protecting?

511
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 3: So you've definitely touched on something there where I think

512
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 3: as you were saying, like, men for so long knew

513
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 3: how to perform in society as the stereotypical male, and

514
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 3: now that's being blurred where it's like do I open

515
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 3: the door or is that seen as sexist?

516
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 4: Do I like that?

517
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 3: There's so many blurred lines about what you can and

518
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 3: can't do in society.

519
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 4: Now just ask, just put your hand up and ask.

520
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 5: Talk to your female friends, talk to you, talk to

521
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 5: your trans friends, talk to your like young binary fend like,

522
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 5: talk to everyone.

523
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: Ask ask more questions, like masculinity isn't a toxic word?

524
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 4: Men aren't toxic?

525
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 3: And I think because there is such an epidemic at

526
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 3: the moment of violence against women and women being hurt

527
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 3: by their partners, there's all so horrendous. People being given

528
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 3: platforms are a podcasts that then become this very loud

529
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 3: minority that you start feeling like all that you're consuming

530
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 3: is negativity around blokes being blokes, and it's just so

531
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 3: far from what my lived reality is and that I've

532
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 3: got wonderful male friends and men in my life, and

533
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: I think the more that we can champion men and highlight,

534
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 3: as you said, the things that we want to see,

535
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 3: but also have conversations.

536
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's still a hard one for mine because I bring.

537
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: It back to we want to help people be able

538
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 3: to have and we don't have the answers, but help

539
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 3: people be able to have conversations that might save their

540
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: partner or save their friend.

541
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 4: But because that is a bloke.

542
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 5: But we're awareness of million percent right in this country

543
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 5: of like, we all know that mental illness is a thing,

544
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 5: which is which.

545
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 4: Is a growth.

546
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 3: If you're working in a newsroom and someone takes their

547
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 3: life by suicide, you don't mention it.

548
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 4: Yes, so this we're.

549
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 5: All aware of it.

550
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 9: We've all been touched it.

551
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 5: The stat that we read this morning was just one

552
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 5: in two people up to the age of twenty five

553
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 5: have been affected by mental illness. And whether that's a

554
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 5: suicide or whether that's just severe depression. And that's also

555
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 5: another thing as well. We're working out what kind of

556
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 5: mental health issue you that you may or may not have.

557
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 5: You might just be having a bad day. It's okay

558
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 5: to have bad days. What are the things that I

559
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 5: can do in my control? Is exercise? Is it telling

560
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 5: a friend, is it talking to someone? Is it going

561
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 5: to see professional help? It's what are the things that

562
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 5: I can do? What's in my toolkit? I talked to

563
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 5: him mate Tommy Harkin, who runs tomorrow Man for all

564
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:38,479
Speaker 5: the sens out there.

565
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 9: Tomorrow Man's an excellent thing. Tommy came through the Reach

566
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 9: program through Jimiyid, but we.

567
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 2: Talked about him with Harry gas Harry Garsk.

568
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 5: So I'm doing a chat with Harry actually in a

569
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 5: few weeks time here in Melbourne. It's going to be

570
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 5: great solid mates. It's called But Tommy talked about in

571
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 5: the book about sharing recipes, sharing recipes for blokes. One

572
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 5: of the ones I love the most is a bloke

573
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 5: who he's a farmer, sits on a track draw day.

574
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 9: He's got a list of on his phone.

575
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 5: So every day it's someone's birthday, or it's someone someone's

576
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 5: friend's wife passed away. So he'll send them a text

577
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 5: every year on that day and just say, hey, mate,

578
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 5: just thinking of you. I know today is going to

579
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 5: be a hard day. It gives me really welled up

580
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 5: because that that little message. He's like, mate, you remember

581
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 5: every year, and I really appreciate it. But those little

582
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 5: things that we can share with our mates that are

583
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 5: so just so little, Those little things that you can do,

584
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 5: those little nuggets are just so important to acknowledge. Your mates,

585
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 5: or your family or your friends go go a really

586
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 5: really long way. So maybe it's a friend that you

587
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 5: haven't spoken to in a while, you're like, oh, I

588
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 5: should probably cool. Just even write a few questions down.

589
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 5: If you're not good at asking questions, write a few

590
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 5: things down before before you start, just just so then

591
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 5: yeah you can you can ask those real those real

592
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 5: questions and actually find out how they're really going.

593
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: I have a question for you, which is we heard

594
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: from Tom Boyd talking about the one percent, is talking

595
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: about what you can do for your mates. But some

596
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: times problems are just too big for friends to tackle.

597
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: There's only so much that you can do.

598
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: Now. I know that you, I mean, you.

599
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: Are the biggest proponent of therapy and talking to seeking

600
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: professional help. We saw that in lne of Adam Selwood's

601
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 1: death that there has been anecdotal evidence at least of

602
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: an uptick in young men seeking mental health plans the

603
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: very monday after he died.

604
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 2: What does that.

605
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: Mean for you in terms of if people be listening

606
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: to this being like, maybe I could, maybe I should

607
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 1: consider therapy, but oh, actually, maybe I don't need it.

608
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 2: Why do you think that everyone needs it?

609
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 5: I like it. I think it's great. I mean, if

610
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 5: you feel so guilty or you feel shame around the

611
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 5: things that you're thinking or feeling, you can't tell your parents,

612
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 5: or you can't tell your partner or friends, go tell

613
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 5: a non judgmental person who's there to help you work

614
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 5: through all these issues.

615
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 9: Currently guarantee that they don't judge you.

616
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 5: They'll be like, cool, all right, let's talk about that,

617
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 5: and let's let's let's let's work out where maybe where

618
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 5: they came from or why you feel that way. And

619
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 5: then you also feel like, oh, heaps of people feel

620
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 5: like this. I'm not such a weirdo, so like, you're

621
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 5: definitely not alone in whatever you thought. Someone's already thought

622
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 5: it before. One of the things I like this is a.

623
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 5: This is the privilege that I have by paying being

624
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 5: able to pay for a psychotherapist. I go once a month.

625
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 5: Is you know when you sit down when your mate,

626
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 5: you're having that coffee and you're sharing the stuff, they

627
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 5: often then want to burden you with all their stuff

628
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 5: and you're like, I just wanted to really get this

629
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 5: stuff off my chest. Now I have to I have

630
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 5: to listen to the one street and now I have

631
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 5: to listen to all your stuff. Okay, that's fine, that's good,

632
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 5: that's good, that's good. But selfishly, when you go see

633
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 5: a psych you don't have to listen to their stuff

634
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 5: as well. But it is just said it is super

635
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 5: important to I know that sounds contradictory to connected with

636
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 5: your friends, and that is important.

637
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 4: That's true. Sometimes you don't have the mental.

638
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 9: Correct Sometimes you don't have the mental capacity to.

639
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 3: Do it, particularly if're feeling like you need to unload

640
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: your own And I also think there's layers to this. Firstly,

641
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: it's wonderful to have so many athletes speaking publicly about

642
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: having therapists love it and psychologists and break down a

643
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 3: stigma that help them with their mental headspace, and they

644
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 3: are everywhere they're actually, most clubs now have a psych

645
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: that is on staff to help with players and coaches.

646
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 3: So this is if you're looking up and we think

647
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 3: that athletes, whether they like it or not, people that

648
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: men in society look up to. Your favorite athlete is

649
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: seeing a psych that is employed by the club to

650
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: take care of their mental health. And if you look

651
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: at them and think they're strong, they're achieving everything, what

652
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 3: they're earning, good money, what could they possibly have to

653
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: be sad about? It doesn't discriminate, and they are seeking help,

654
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: and whether they choose to speak about it publicly is

655
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,239
Speaker 3: up to them. But I can guarantee you that the

656
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: best athletes in the world are all getting help psychologically.

657
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: Point one point two would be I think sometimes as

658
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: a partner, you want to be everything. You want to

659
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 3: be the person that's able to fix it for them.

660
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 3: If they're going through something that's difficult, why aren't you

661
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 3: talking to me? And I know that there's times where

662
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 3: you know, I've had girlfriends be like, oh, but if

663
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: they're seeing a psych, then maybe they won't talk to

664
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: me about it. We need to get to a place

665
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: where it's actually relieving that your partner has psychological help.

666
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: That isn't you And you can't be everything to everyone, right,

667
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 3: I mean you wound me, but yeah no, yeah, yeah,

668
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: yeah no I can't. I can't be everything to everyone,

669
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 3: all right. And then it's also this idea that, again

670
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: with men, they are meant to be the ones meant

671
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: to be and I use inverted comments here that carry

672
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: the burden.

673
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 4: They're not meant to be the burden.

674
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 3: So this idea that they don't want to put their

675
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: mental anguish on you because and I'll speak about it

676
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 3: as someone who's just gone through postpartum and had kids,

677
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: I've been going through a lot, so and I think

678
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: sometimes again, I don't want to go too much into

679
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 3: my partner and thing. But Cain wouldn't necessarily share with

680
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: me if he was going through a hard time, because

681
00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 3: he'd be wanting to take care of me.

682
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 5: So can I just jump in quickly? Like that's a

683
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 5: really really important point to make about your relationship, that

684
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 5: it ebbs and flows, it's seesaws up and down. Who's

685
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 5: the person flailing in the air. The other person has

686
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 5: to be on the ground.

687
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 4: But what if I'm always flailing?

688
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 5: Is important? I think for some couples, if you know

689
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 5: that you can't be that person to create that space

690
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 5: for them to break. Blokes need to break as well.

691
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, having having an appointment once a month

692
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: that allows them to do that even if they need

693
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: to or they don't.

694
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 5: And often recognize it from from a partners point of view,

695
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 5: like recognizing, actually, I don't have the capability to put

696
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 5: you back together right now, but I want I want to.

697
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 5: So maybe it's time that you went out with the

698
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 5: boys and had a couple of beers. Maybe not too many,

699
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 5: but you know, it's time that you reach out to that,

700
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 5: to that mate, Like that's that's a really important thing

701
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 5: that to know when you notice something about your partner

702
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 5: or a friend too, to say that you have noticed.

703
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And often the therapy when you don't need therapy

704
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: can be the best. Oh my gosh, Like the sessions

705
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: where you go in and you go, I don't even

706
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 3: know what I've got to talk about here, you find

707
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 3: yourself down a rabbit hole of going. I didn't know

708
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: that that was going to come up for me because

709
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 3: we all and I think that's also important too that

710
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 3: we talk about it and destigmatize it a lot. That

711
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: you can talk about your mental health and how you're going,

712
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 3: and also that you can have you know, you can

713
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: have written a book, you can be on the Amazing Race,

714
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: you can be hosting the projects and still be having

715
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 3: things that are really difficult going on in your life

716
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 3: as well. And I think sometimes you feel like you

717
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 3: can't put your hand up if from the outside it

718
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: looks like you've you know, you've got it all, So

719
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 3: what could you possibly have to be struggling with.

720
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 5: It's really hard, but you should never compare your struggle

721
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 5: or whatever demons that you have. Never try and compare them. Also,

722
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 5: like I just read writing down before about how social

723
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 5: media like every time that you turn it on, you're

724
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 5: constantly comparing, constantly comparing yourself or you're comparing your life

725
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 5: with other people and other people whether they whether they're

726
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 5: celebrities or your friends or or other colleagues or whatever.

727
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 5: The constant comparison is just not helpful at all. Put

728
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 5: your phone down.

729
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: Question without notice.

730
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: There'll be people listening, hopefully men who are going okay, okay, okay, yes,

731
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: yes I know I need to talk about it, No

732
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: I need to do this, but will still have or

733
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: feel at least that they have no idea how to

734
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: just begin a conversation with a friend who's struggling. What

735
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: are three conversation starters?

736
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 9: Is you sharing something first?

737
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 5: Okay, When you share something first, it sort of leaves

738
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 5: the floor open for the person to go, oh, it's

739
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 5: so weird psychological thing. You're like, oh, okay, we're sharing. Okay,

740
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 5: maybe i'll share something or say something they've noticed about

741
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 5: a friend, but clearly it's about them, but without saying

742
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 5: oh it is. I think the best way to start

743
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 5: is creating a safe space for those conversations to exist.

744
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 5: And it's not like for a lot of blokes, it's

745
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 5: after twenty beers and oh, bloody love you, mate, of

746
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 5: bloody love you. I just want to I just things

747
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 5: and things are good at home. Feel like my brother's

748
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 5: guilty of this. He is cried, cried the other night

749
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 5: at the pub with the boys. Like what you talk about?

750
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 5: He goes, I can't remember. Okay, let's let's get there

751
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 5: because the tears are very important. That's releasing the pressure valve.

752
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 5: But let's let's go back to a sober chat where

753
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 5: you can actually work out what you what you wanted

754
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 5: to get off your chest. So share, Share, keep creating

755
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 5: the space share something of your own and if they're

756
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 5: not ready.

757
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 9: They're not ready, just just let them know. Just just

758
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 9: let them know that that you hear from.

759
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 4: If you ever need anything, that's such an important one.

760
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, and don't don't don't pressure someone, Just just let

761
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 5: them know that you have noticed something. I think that's

762
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 5: a that's a really important thing. And yeah, an activity,

763
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 5: do something together, whether it's fixing a car, whether it's

764
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 5: kicking the footy, or whether it's going for a walk.

765
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 5: I think just those those little things when you're alone

766
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 5: with a mate, or it could be a group thing.

767
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 5: Just got to work out what works for you. But

768
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 5: exercise is always good as well.

769
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, my introt to Robert was actually his book, without

770
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 3: me mentioning the fact that it actually was the title

771
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 3: of his book, So putting on a show manhood Mates

772
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: and Mental Health. It's available and any good bookshop and

773
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: any get online as well.

774
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 4: Robert, thank you so much for coming in.

775
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 3: I know that it's such a heftic it's a hefty

776
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 3: topic to take on. It's a heavy one for us

777
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 3: to be having as well, and it's hard because you

778
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 3: feel like you can't hit all the nuances a well,

779
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 3: or you want to do it justice, so you want

780
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: it to be okay. But I think you've really helped

781
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 3: give us some actionable ways that we can check in

782
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 3: on mates.

783
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 1: And that's really and I think that's what we wanted

784
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: to do today, is talk about actions, because there's a

785
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: lot of chatter around whether or not there should be

786
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: a mental health awareness round, you know, coming up in

787
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: the AFL, now.

788
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 4: Ia, Guernsey actually do yes.

789
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: Now I'm not against that, but as something that Robert said,

790
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: I think awareness is actually pretty high in a lot

791
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: of circles. So just having the actions that you can

792
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: maybe employ or someone you know you can employ, send

793
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: them this episode. Give us your feedback, give us your suggestions.

794
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear it too. It's all about the conversation.

795
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: It's a hard one.

796
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: You just got to start it.

797
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 5: Thanks for a bit, Thanks having me guys. Is it

798
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 5: time for my fun fact? Oh my god, it's time

799
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 5: for the fun facts?

800
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 4: Robert Mills stick.

801
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 9: Around about the fun facts.

802
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: Also, Robert Mills should be the number one ticket holder

803
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: sorry em race for oh god, hawthorn. Yeah, so no

804
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 3: one owns more horse like more Hawks merch my fun fact.

805
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 3: Luke Codge doesn't have that much memorabilia.

806
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: Luke Hodge does not have that much memorabilia. My fun

807
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: fact is that early on dating, Robert and I would

808
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: go on a lot of walks around ten and so

809
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: we'd be walking, walking, walking. I think you know, bar

810
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: twice Robert was head to toe in Hawks merch.

811
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 10: Now I'm not like it's fresh from the club. Yeah,

812
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,479
Speaker 10: I'm not talking a T shirt.

813
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: I'm talking an actual like playing strip jersey, playing strip shorts.

814
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: We've also got hawthorn stocks.

815
00:36:58,800 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 4: We've got a.

816
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 2: Hawthorn parker on. We also have a hawthorn hat.

817
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 10: Like head to toe?

818
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 9: Is it?

819
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 5: It's a nick?

820
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 10: Now, I've told him, you go after those point seven

821
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 10: years in, I'm like, bad, it's a nick.

822
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 9: I definitely wear lesson out since me wearing my N nine.

823
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 2: Grand Final premiers.

824
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: And we caught up for coffee what two days ago

825
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 3: when he had a Hawks jumper, a Hawks in a

826
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: Hawk's hat. Yeah, yeah, I said, is you know that

827
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 3: wasn't going to a game general life?

828
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 4: Yes?

829
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: So can I get to the Fund' not roasting you?

830
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 5: We love you, it's about it's about the Hawks. So

831
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 5: this is from a Hawks chat group that I'm in.

832
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 5: It's a full Hawks nuffy. He said, if you exclude

833
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 5: the first quarter of every game this year, the Hawks

834
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 5: are undefeated ten Niel after quarter time.

835
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 9: No team has beaten the Hawks from quarter time on.

836
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 5: The three games that they've lost, they only lost their

837
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 5: first quarter and then they won the rest of the

838
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 5: match in all of those three games.

839
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 9: It is an incredible stat.

840
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 5: So like, if we just go from from quarter time on,

841
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 5: we're top of the latter.

842
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 4: So fact, I have a theory if.

843
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 9: We start well, we're good finishes the Hawks.

844
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 4: The Hawks nuffy chat is just Rob messaging himself. I

845
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 4: have this made. That's a real nuffy. Yeah. My support

846
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 4: crew has Robert to Rob being.

847
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 3: Like, that's a fantastic start. It's not not that that

848
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: is actually a wonderful fun fact. Do you think you're

849
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: in the flag? Honestly, do you think you're in the

850
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 3: flag this year?

851
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 5: Not this year? But I think we're in next year.

852
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 4: In your second season. That's right, it's not your second

853
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 4: thing this year, but next year, trophy. Robert, we love you,

854
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 4: thank you so much for coming on.

855
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 5: I just before before I go, I'm doing the push

856
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 5: up challenge for Lifeline next month. Get around it. Three

857
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 5: thousand and one hundred and something push ups.

858
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: I think disclosure Lifeline did ask me to join in Lifeline.

859
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: I will support you in other ways. I cannot do

860
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: a million push ups.

861
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 5: For those people, But I'm just saying for the people

862
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 5: who are out there finding it maybe hard to reach

863
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 5: out to a loved one or a mate, or don't

864
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 5: have don't actually have any of those people in their lives,

865
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 5: Lifelong is a really great first step as well, just

866
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 5: to even just offload some stuff or to talk about it.

867
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 5: We talk about Lifeline, then the numbers of callers that

868
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 5: went up throughout COVID, Everyone's like, oh my god, it's

869
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 5: such a shock that all these people are calling, Like,

870
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 5: of course the numbers should go up because more people

871
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 5: are struggling. It's okay, But the money raise for the

872
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 5: Push Up Challenge goes to helping these volunteers take more

873
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 5: callers and also help help people definitely definitely need So yeah,

874
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 5: if you can reach out, jump on my at rock

875
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 5: Mills and Mills to donate.

876
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Speaker 3: And the conversation today has touched on some heavy and

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Speaker 3: sensitive topics. So if you're anyone you know might need support.

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Speaker 3: That number for Lifeline is thirteen eleven fourteen, Robert.

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Speaker 5: Thanks so much for coming, Thanks guys, thanks having me,

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00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 5: love the show, and until next week, pretty good sports.

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Speaker 2: Call your mates

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Speaker 7: Uncle Si.