1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Coming up on today's show, Tammy Hembro and Matt Sakowski's 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: bizarre social media behavior, the Melbourne micro influencers slams of 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: fashion brand for not inviting her to Coachella, and the 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Candid Girlfriend is going viral. Hello and welcome to Outspoken. 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: It's your dose of the hottest influencer and pop culture 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: news twice a week. I'm Kate Torbert and Sophie. It's 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: just you and me on the mics. Today. Amy does 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: make a special appearance for the seconds. Yeah she's too 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: busy for us today, Yeah she is. She is very 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: busy with PR work, so we thought we would get 11 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: it done together. I mean, Amy and I did do 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: the subs episode, So who is the real MVP at 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: the moment. Well, I have been sick for the past 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: three days and I've been recording remotely, which is really 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: reminding me of COVID days. 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: I don't like it very much. It is so dark 17 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 2: in my room at the moment. It's getting so cold. 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: I hate the winter seems to be upon us, and 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: Daylight's say over as well, which really officially makes it 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: the worst time of the year. 21 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 1: The first week when it switches over is always so depressing. 22 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: The first day is kind of okay because you feel 23 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: like you're winning, you've had a little bit more of 24 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: a sleep in, but then as soon as it gets dark, 25 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,919 Speaker 1: it really hits you and you're like, not this again. 26 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: It just seems to be bizarre because it's clocked over 27 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: to officially be a month since my wedding, and to think, 28 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: the only four weeks ago. 29 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 2: It was forty degrees, it was bright, it was sunny outside. 30 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: It's crazy how the weather can turn in such a 31 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: short period of time. I do kind of secretly love 32 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 2: it because I feel like we are in our boring 33 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,919 Speaker 2: married couple era at the moment, because we have booked 34 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: ourselves in with our partners for a quiz night at 35 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: a pub. 36 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 37 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: I can't wait. There is nothing better than doing a 38 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: quiz night. I'm not that confident how good we will 39 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: be at it, though, because I think the three of 40 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: us only really bring pop culture knowledge, maybe a bit 41 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: of general news knowledge to it, but we're not very 42 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: good at the other top. So I know that my partner, 43 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,919 Speaker 2: he's very good at sports and also, strangely enough, geography 44 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: and history. We actually did a bit of prep last 45 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 2: night and whenever we go to family dinner at his parents' house, 46 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 2: we do the Sunday quiz, but I never know any 47 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: of the answers because I feel like it's very targeted 48 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: towards a certain demographic. Oh definitely always in those quizzes. 49 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: I do them with Brandon's family as well, and I 50 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: will always be asked the celebrity and pop culture questions. 51 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: And I love it because They're always like, how the 52 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: fuck did you know that? And I'm like, well, how 53 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 2: did you guys know? The other stuff? 54 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 3: I have no idea are the court I feel taken 55 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 3: advantage of because I feel like they knew how much 56 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 3: I loved the brand. 57 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 4: They knew I would do anything for them. They know 58 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 4: I fucking die for them. 59 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: A Melbourne micro influencer called Yasmin has slammed Melbourne fashion 60 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: label by Bambi for not inviting her on its brand 61 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: trip to Coachella. Yasmin, who was the face of the 62 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: brand's fifth birthday bash, revealed she only received a voucher 63 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: in exchange for the collaboration. So before we get into it, 64 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: can you tell us more about this fashion label because 65 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: I am not familiar with it. 66 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: Look, I know they're having a tough week after being 67 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: called out, and I don't really want to add to it, 68 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: but I do want our listeners to go and look 69 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: up this brand because a brand has never made me 70 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 2: feel so old. These clothes look like costumes to me. 71 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: The clothes have this really early two thousands field. There's 72 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 2: lots of ruffles and bows and corsets and metallicky sort 73 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: of material. It's definitely not my cup of tea. But 74 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: I am not the target demographic for this brand now. 75 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: It is a Melbourne fashion label created by Andy Short 76 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: and the brand has over eighty eight thousand followers on 77 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: Instagram and describes itself as a slow fashion label which 78 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: prioritizes organic, recycled fabrics. That surprised me because, if anything 79 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: to me, it had that sort of cheap, fast fashion 80 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: vibe to it. 81 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and as we mentioned in the intro, the brand 82 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: actually celebrated its fifth birthday in November with an influencer 83 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: event and Yasmin was at the center of it. So 84 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: she has one hundred and third twenty two thousand followers 85 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: on TikTok and sixteen point nine thousand on Instagram and 86 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: she was the face of the brand's birthday celebrations, so 87 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: she appeared in marketing collateral and hosted the event's pink carpet. 88 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: Now fast forward five months and by Bambi has launched 89 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,799 Speaker 1: a pop up store in LA to dress influences for Coachella, 90 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: and Yasmin is pissed because she hasn't been invited on 91 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: this trip. Yeah, and she has posted a five minute 92 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: ran to her TikTok slamming the brand for not inviting 93 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: her on its LA trip, and she's also alleged that 94 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: the brand took advantage of her. The video has since 95 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: been deleted, but someone's screen recorded it before it went down. 96 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: Here's a snippet of what she said. 97 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 4: I feel taken advantage of That is how I feel. 98 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: I say as well, like this has nothing to do 99 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 3: with the girls that are on the trip with them 100 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 3: right now. Like also, gophy, you fucking love that you're invited, 101 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 3: Like you have every right to go, Like this is 102 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 3: not about them. Lot of people keep asking me like 103 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: like why aren't you there, like all of this shit, 104 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: like and I don't fucking know why I'm not there. 105 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 4: I don't know why I'm not there. 106 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: I feel like I went above and beyond for this brand. 107 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 3: All the campaigning I did for them, I did. I 108 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 3: promoted the shoot out of their products for free, like 109 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: they gave me the products, but like I still raged 110 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 3: about them, and. 111 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 4: I wore them, and I did like a ten hour 112 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 4: shoot with them. I had meetings with them. 113 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 3: I was the face of their fifth birthday campaign. Like 114 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 3: my face was plastered on walls. I was on billboards 115 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 3: on travels Street. I hosted an event for two hours 116 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: and I did that all for free. Yeah, I got 117 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 3: a voucher in exchange for doing that. 118 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: She went on to say that she signed a contract 119 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: with the brand and knew what she was getting herself into, 120 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: but thought the free work she did my opener up 121 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: to further opportunities with the brand. She also said she 122 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: went above and beyond for the brand and essentially got 123 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: nothing back. Here's what Yasmin said about not being invited 124 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: on the Troop. 125 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 4: People ask me, like, I hope you got invited, babe, 126 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 4: I didn't get any invite. Don't get me wrong. 127 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 3: They have every right they of course, they can choose 128 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: who represents their brand and who comes to these events 129 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 3: and who they send overseas. 130 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 4: That like when you just do so. 131 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: Much for someone or something you just feel like you're 132 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 3: gonna get Like I just felt like I was creating 133 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 3: a relationship. 134 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: I find it really interesting that Yasmin says that she 135 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: got nothing back, because if you look at her follow 136 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: account in the scheme of things, she is pretty small 137 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 2: fry in the influencer world. While she does have over 138 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand followers on TikTok, she only has sixteen 139 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: thousand on Instagram, and for someone with that sort of following, 140 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: it is quite a big deal to be asked to 141 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 2: be the face of a brand, however small this brand is, 142 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: and not only was her content shared across by Bambie's account, 143 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 2: but she was also featured on a billboard in Chapel Street. 144 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 2: So she knew that by collaborating with this brand, she 145 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: was going to open herself up to a whole new 146 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 2: lot of followers and that's why she did it. So 147 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 2: while she wasn't being paid money, the exchange for her 148 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: was the exposure and the free products. 149 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: And it is interesting that she meant that she signed 150 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: a contract, because if that hadn't been brought up, I 151 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: would have thought, wow, she did get screwed over. However, 152 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: it seems like the brand clearly stipulated what the deal 153 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: was and that she signed off on it, so they 154 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: can't really control her expectations outside of what was written 155 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: in the contract. 156 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing. I do think that influencers 157 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: should be paid for their time, particularly when they are 158 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: doing things like ten hour shoots. However, as you say, Kate, 159 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: that is the contract that she agreed to, and to 160 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: me it just sounds like quite a common contray deal 161 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: in the influencer space, where she was provided exposure and 162 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: clothes in exchange for her time. 163 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: I feel a bit sorry for her though, because she 164 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: obviously thought if I do what the brand wants me 165 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: to do down the track, they. 166 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: Will reward me. 167 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: I get that, but it's quite possible that her involvement 168 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: in this fifth Birthday party wasn't successful for the brand. 169 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: They might have measured their return on investment in using 170 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: her and was like, h Okay, she didn't really work 171 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: with what we were trying to do. We actually need 172 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: to get bigger influences involved and potentially pay them. 173 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: I do think they use the birthday collaboration as an 174 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: experiment to see if they wanted to work with her again, 175 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: and in this ranch she put screenshots up showing that 176 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: she had shared about twenty five reels promoting the brand. 177 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: But I did notice when I went to have a 178 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: closer look at it that the light count was hidden 179 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: on all of the posts, which generally is a bit 180 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: of a red flag that maybe that post didn't perform well. 181 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 2: It does shock me how many influencers hide their light count, 182 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: particularly when they share a branded post, because I'm like, 183 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: you clearly have something to hide. Yeah, it is always 184 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 2: a bit fishy. Going back to this contract, though, I 185 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: definitely think more negotiations should have taken place and more 186 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: pushback if she wasn't happy receiving a vouch she in 187 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: return for all of that work she did. I did 188 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: notice that she's represented by Zooits, which is Shiny Grimman's 189 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 2: ex boyfriend Tommy Bugs talent agency. What a throwback is 190 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: Tommy Bug. So I just think that if she wasn't 191 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: happy with it, instead of assuming that she was going 192 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: to get some sort of free trip to Cachella, she 193 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: should have asked for some money in return. 194 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: I was surprised to hear that she was represented by 195 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: a talent agency. I actually think that she was happy 196 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: with the deal originally. However, maybe she's had a lot 197 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: of her followers come out and be like, why are 198 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: you on the trip, and her egos got involved and 199 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: now she's feeling a bit embarrassed. Now. 200 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: In terms of this La trip, my perspective is that 201 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: this brand wanted to try and get their name out 202 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: to as many new customers as possible, so they wanted 203 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: to try some fresh influences instead of going back and 204 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 2: using the same person again. Now, one of the big 205 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: names invited on this trip is Sam Guggenheimer, who is 206 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: the it girl of the moment. She has one hundred 207 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: and twenty nine thousand followers on Instagram and two hundred 208 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: and forty seven thousand on TikTok. She is a former 209 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: friend of Sofa Dofer and she bears an uncanny resemblance 210 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 2: to Olivia Rodgers. 211 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was actually linked to Olivia's ex boyfriend Morgan 212 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: Waterhouse recently at Fashion Week. Nothing much has come from that, 213 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: but she was posting photos of him on her is 214 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: Tay story. 215 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 2: Now. The other two Australian influencers on the trip Izy Armatid, 216 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: who has ninety seven thousand followers on both TikTok and 217 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: Instagram and Jasmine Edavares, who has one hundred and ten 218 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: thousand on TikTok and thirty seven thousand on Instagram. It 219 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: is interesting to note that all three of those influences 220 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: are managed by the same talent agency, which is One 221 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: day Dream, so they clearly have someone negotiating their deal 222 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: on their behalf. Yeah, and those girls are all friends 223 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 2: as well, so it seems like they've come as a 224 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: bit of a packaged deal. There has been quite a 225 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: lot of interest in the fact that they are over 226 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: in La and maybe that's what they had over Yasmin. 227 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: It seems like their posts seem to be rubbing a 228 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 2: bit of salt in the wound for Yasmin, because they've 229 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: been posting driving around in flashy jeeps and going to 230 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 2: very upmarket restaurants. The brand has also invited a number 231 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: of US creators down to their pop up store, and 232 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: they're also providing them with close to wed to Coachella. 233 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 2: It seems to be a pretty big activation for them, 234 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: and they seem to want to get their name out 235 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: there to an American audience. 236 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: You would definitely have fomo seeing this all unfold on TikTok, 237 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: and people are sliding into your DMS being like why 238 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: aren't you there? I think this is just another example 239 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: of how oversaturated the influencer market is at the moment, 240 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: and it was probably quite a bad move for Yasmin 241 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: to accept a voucher in exchange for her work, because 242 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: that brand is going to be like, oh, well, we 243 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: don't have to pay her anymore, and it just shows 244 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: how replaceable influencers actually are. 245 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: And I do want to point out that it appears 246 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: that the three Australian influencers on this trip seem to 247 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: have been paid to attend it, so I think that 248 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: that is what is causing a lot of distress as well. 249 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: I also think that social media has a way of 250 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 2: making things look very personal, as you guys have touched on. 251 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: Clearly she is receiving a lot of DMS and people 252 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 2: are sending her screenshots of this trip asking her why 253 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: you're not there? And I feel like the word invited 254 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 2: is so loaded because invited makes it sound like a 255 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: social event that you've been excluded from, when an actual fact, 256 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: it is a business decision who attends this trip. This 257 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 2: brand would have a lot of money writing on selecting 258 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 2: the right people to promote them, particularly during an important 259 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 2: event like Coachella. 260 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: And Yasmin has probably done a lot of damage to 261 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: her own personal brand by uploading this rant, because a 262 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: lot of brands will see that and they'll go, well, 263 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: we're not working with her in the future. Why do 264 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: you think she took it down? Do you think she 265 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: thought better of it, or do you think the brand 266 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: asked her to remove it. I definitely think that the 267 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: brand has sprung into action and has asked her to 268 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: take this down. I do feel really sorry for her, though, 269 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: because this sort of publicity I think will deter other 270 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: brands from wanting to work with her in the future, 271 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: because technically by. 272 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: Bambi didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, they didn't invite her 273 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: on this brand trip, but they never actually said they 274 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: were going to. It wasn't part of the deal. 275 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: I'd be really interested to have a look at the 276 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: contract that was signed, because normally with these types of 277 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: contracts there are stipulations that you can't speak ill of 278 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: the brand or revealed details of the actual deal. So 279 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: I feel like the branded very well within their eyes 280 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: to tell her to remove the video. 281 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 4: These guys really cute. So I messaged him and she's like, 282 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 4: no way, she was like, oh no. 283 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: This week, fitness mogul and influencer Tammy Hembro has been 284 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: on a press tour for her new book Show Up. 285 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: While she's been grilled about that Kardashian incident and rejected 286 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: claims she got bum implants, all anyone can talk about 287 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: is her recent social media activity. On Monday night, Super 288 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: Sluice noticed that Tammy and her new fiance Mattsakowski had 289 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: dramatically unfollowed each other. 290 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: That's right, Kate. This revelation led many to believe that 291 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: their relationship was in strife or over, and it was 292 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: quite awkward because when you went to look up the 293 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 2: name Matt on her follower list, you could clearly see 294 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 2: that Matt Sakowski was gone, but her ex fiance Matt 295 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: Pool was still there. 296 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 297 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 2: That was so awkward because people were speculating, well, did 298 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 2: she delete Mattsakoska and then refollow Matt paul Yeah, and 299 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 2: that wasn't the case because Tammy refollowed Matt poul a 300 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 2: while ago, and was just last week that she was 301 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 2: sharing about their co parenting. It seems like they're in 302 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 2: a really good place at the moment. So she shared 303 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: a text message exchange between her and Matt Paul, and 304 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 2: in the messages, Matt Paul joked about giving their daughter 305 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 2: posey oysters as he knew that they were Tammy's favorite. 306 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: It kind of seemed quite cute the exchange, and a 307 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: lot of people, well, a lot of her followers are 308 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: saying that they shipped their relationship and they wish that 309 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: the two of them would get back together. So this 310 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,239 Speaker 2: adds an interesting element to this conversation. 311 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: I wonder how Matt two point feels about that, particularly 312 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: the timing as well. 313 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this grand unfollowing comes just weeks after a 314 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 2: woman claimed that Matt Zukowski sent her flirty messages asking 315 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: if she had a boyfriend, and the woman says that 316 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: when she asked him why he wanted to know, he 317 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: apparently said he was asking on behalf of a mate. Now, 318 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: Tammy and Matt Zukowski have never publicly addressed this incident, 319 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 2: and since then, Tammy and Matt have not really been 320 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: featuring on one another's social media accounts. That being said, 321 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: this week, Tammy was interviewed on Mia Friedman's podcast No Filter, 322 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: and a day before that came out, Matt did this 323 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 2: big declaration of love on his Instagram story for her, 324 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: so he uploaded a mirror selfie with Tammy and wrote, 325 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: I have never felt a love that is so strong 326 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 2: and pure. I love you so much, babe. He also 327 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: commented under the podcast promotion, saying he couldn't wait to 328 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: listen to it. 329 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: I did notice that and I was like, h they 330 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: must be back on. It is interesting to consider what 331 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: went down in those twenty four hours for them to 332 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: then unfollow each other. 333 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 334 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 2: I just don't understand why any couple who is in 335 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: the public eye would bother playing into these games, because 336 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 2: it's obvious that they have people who were so invested 337 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: in their lives that they're constantly checking their accounts. And 338 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: also people are already speculating due to this controversy involving 339 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 2: the DM that something is going on, so they're going 340 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 2: to be checking it. 341 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And after twenty four hours, they did appear 342 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: to refollow each other, but that was only after a 343 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: number of influencer Watchdog accounts actually reported on the unfollowing. 344 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: So I wonder if things are better or they just thought, fuck, 345 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: let's get people off our backs and refollow each other. 346 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the Daily Mail did an article about it too, 347 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: so it did reach mainstream media. Some followers were speculating 348 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: that this grand unfollowing was all part of a strategic 349 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: plan to get people talking about Tammy in the lead 350 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: up to her book release, because her book is coming 351 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: out in a couple of days. 352 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: See to me, that doesn't make sense because the book 353 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: has already been published, so it's not like people are 354 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: going to go out and buy it with the hope 355 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: that their questions about her relationship with Matt Sukowski will 356 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: be answered. So I think this is all just a 357 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: case of very bad timing for Tammy. And in the 358 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: interviews that she's done, she's been asked about Matt and 359 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: she has spoken glowingly about him, but I think that's 360 00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: because they were pre recorded. 361 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, but people are saying that it's a strategy to 362 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: get people talking about her. It's not because they're deluded 363 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: and think that they'll get some sort of juicy details 364 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: in this book about it. But it's getting her name 365 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 2: out there. It's reminding people she's got a book coming out. 366 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think 367 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: it's a very good look for her personal brand, particularly 368 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: because she's been trolled so much about getting engaged for 369 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: a third time, and I think she truly wants to 370 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: prove everyone wrong with this relationship, but it is just 371 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: unraveling before everyone's eyes sadly. 372 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: Now. 373 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 2: Tammy doesn't give many podcast interviews. I think the most 374 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: notable was on her fiance Matsukowski's podcast a few months ago. 375 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 2: So it was really interesting to see how she'd go 376 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: in the hot seat with me a freedman. And what 377 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: really stood out to me was just how nervous Tammy was, 378 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 2: and Mia pointed this out several times during the interview. 379 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, actually felt a bit sorry for Tammy because it's 380 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: the worst when you are nervous, but then someone keeps 381 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: telling you that you're nervous would make you even more nervous. 382 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: It's clear that she doesn't like being out of control, 383 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: and I think that was a big part of it. 384 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: Because Mia Friedman really, as the podcast suggests, doesn't have 385 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: a filter, and she asked her a lot of personal questions. 386 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: I was surprised how interested she was in Tammy's bum. Yeah, 387 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: there was a lot. 388 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 2: Of interest in her bum. She was fascinated with how 389 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: Tammy combines her body, her brain, and her business to 390 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 2: build her empire, and she admitted for a long time 391 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 2: she thought Tammy had bum in plants, and she actually 392 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 2: asked her is your bum real? And Tammy confirmed it 393 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: is real and said that the reason people are so 394 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: surprised it's real is because people underestimate how much you 395 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 2: can transform your bum in the gym and kitchen. 396 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: Well, that's a good ad for Tammy fit, isn't it. 397 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: I actually found it quite difficult to listen to this 398 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: interview because it felt like Mia was pulling teeth because 399 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: Tammy really wasn't giving her that much. 400 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, there were times when she only gave her one 401 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 2: word responses. It was almost though Tammy couldn't find the 402 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: words to articulate what she wanted to express. One question 403 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: where Mia struck gold was when she asked Tammy, has 404 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 2: there been anything you haven't wanted to share about before? 405 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: And Tammy admitted that she didn't share about her breakup 406 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 2: with her ex fiance Matt Paul because she felt like 407 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: a failure after the second engagement was called off. And 408 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: the reason this was so interesting is because she's never 409 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 2: really spoken about her breakup with Matt Paul before, and 410 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 2: she admitted that it was a really tough time for 411 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,239 Speaker 2: her and she wanted to go through it personally and 412 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 2: not share about it online now. During this interview, Tammy 413 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 2: also confirmed that she's not done with having kids, and 414 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: she admitted that after she had Posey, she thought that 415 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: she was done because of her relationship breakdown with Matt Paul, 416 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 2: but now that she's in a new relationship with Matt Zukowski, 417 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 2: she said that she's open to it as he doesn't 418 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: have any kids of his own. And this is where 419 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 2: the interview did get a bit awkward because Mia obviously 420 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,959 Speaker 2: wasn't aware that Mats's cosky is infertile, and she asked Tammy, 421 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: how did you find that out? And Tammy replied that 422 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 2: she found out during the start of their relationship, and 423 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 2: then Mia said, is that because you started trying to 424 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 2: have kids straight away? 425 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: I do want to put. 426 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: Context to this because Tammy did explain earlier in the 427 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 2: interview that she fell pregnant to Ryese Hawkins four weeks 428 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: into dating, so that is why Mea phrased it like this. 429 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: I did like Tammy's response to this question because she 430 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: said that it's actually Matt's story to tell and that 431 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: there are options for them to have their own biological 432 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: children together. It did stand out to me that Mia 433 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: actually found it really hard to prep for this interview 434 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: because she kept mentioning that there's not actually a lot 435 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: of information out there about Tammy in terms of she 436 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: doesn't really do podcast interviews, and I suppose with influencers 437 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: you really have to be following them for years and 438 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: years to get any context around their life. 439 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's clear that she wasn't that familiar with her. 440 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: Something that made the interview really interesting was the way 441 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: that she wasn't scared to call her out on certain things. 442 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 2: For instance, she pointed out that she has been asking 443 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 2: Tammy to appear on No Filter for years now, and 444 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 2: Tammy has only decided to do so now that she 445 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 2: has a book coming out. She also challenged Tammy on 446 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 2: the way she promoted so called bounce back culture after 447 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: having her daughter Posey. However, Tammy did defend herself, saying 448 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: I wasn't in any sort of rush. I don't think 449 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 2: I left my bed. I had a little station in 450 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 2: my bedroom for the first six weeks because I ended 451 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 2: up losing about two liters of blood after I had Posey. 452 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 2: So yeah, it was quite an interesting conversation, but I 453 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: could just tell that Mia was working so hard to 454 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: make something out of nothing. 455 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. I always got the vibe that Mia was disappointed 456 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: after reading Tammy's book, which probably isn't the best promotion 457 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: for it, because she said, Oh, I was expecting it 458 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: to be a biography, but it's more a motivational book. 459 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 2: From listening to this podcast interview, it is clear that 460 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: Tammy would benefit from some media training and even hearing 461 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 2: her talk about the way that her business is structured 462 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: and how basically she only employs her friends to run 463 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: SASKI and her app. I think that she needs to 464 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: look outside of her circle a bit, because she's got 465 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: a great opportunity. If she's bringing out a motivational book. 466 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 2: When she's on a podcast, her words should also be motivational. 467 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: But unfortunately they weren't. She just couldn't find the right words. 468 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: To express herself in saying that though we do need 469 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: to give credit where credit is due. It's being reported 470 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: that she's built a fifty million dollar empire, so she's 471 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: clearly doing a lot of things right. But I do agree, 472 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: I think to go to that next level and position 473 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: her personal brand better, she would benefit from getting pr help. 474 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: I actually have something funny to share. You remember when 475 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: we spoke about that Chinese billionaire who like. 476 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 5: DMG all the time replied messages. 477 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: He's back, He commented on a photo of mine recently 478 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: and said, Madison be my girlfriend. 479 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 2: Madison Woolly's apartment hunting is finally over. The influencer announced 480 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: she's just bought her dream apartment before jetting off to 481 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: New Zealand. 482 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: And it has been a long time coming so for Madison, 483 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: who packed up her Sydney apartment in July last year. 484 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: Now at the time, she had to race against the 485 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: clock to get everything in storage before her trip to Europe, 486 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: and in a vog she told her audience she was 487 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: moving back in with her parents in NUSA while she 488 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: looked for an apartment in Sydney to purchase, and she 489 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: predicted that she would be back in no time. However, 490 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: it did end up taking ten months to buy an apartment. 491 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: I think that just shows how tough the housing market 492 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: is at the moment. Yeah, definitely, I feel for her. 493 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: It took me probably two years to buy a house 494 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: in Adelaide because it is just so competitive and I'd 495 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: hate to think how it actually is in the Eastern State. 496 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: It had been absolute nightmare. Yeah. Well, it seems like 497 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: Madison's done pretty well for herself, because she did share 498 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: a photo of what appears to be the interior of 499 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: her apartment and wrote, so I just bought my dream apartment. 500 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: She also followed up up by sharing a video on 501 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: TikTok of her looking stressed out at the airport, riding 502 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: peak stress levels signing contracts as I was boughting my flight, 503 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: but I just bought my dream apartment. Now, she was 504 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: jetting off to New Zealand with her boyfriend Jonathan Sower, 505 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: as you do. 506 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: When you just bought a house. 507 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: It's probably one of those things where she would look 508 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: back and was like, hmmm, probably shouldn't have booked a trip. 509 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: I can relate to her in a sense because my 510 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: partner and I bought our house three months before our wedding, 511 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: and because we'd been looking for so long. You're like, oh, 512 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: put my attention into the wedding, let's get. 513 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 2: A photo booth, let's get all these extra things, and 514 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: you don't think about it that at the time all 515 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: of our invoices, would you when we just bought that house. 516 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that month before the wedding, when you have to 517 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: pay the invoices is the worst. I couldn't imagine also 518 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: having all of your savings drained. 519 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: At the same time. 520 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: Now, we do need to clear some things up because recently, 521 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: on an episode of Madison's podcast, Girl Code, it seems 522 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: like she's not happy with us, particularly because we did 523 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: refer to her as being temporarily homeless recent Now, the 524 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: comment was made in jest because she had opened up 525 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: about how her parents had told her that her and 526 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: Jonathan needed to be out of their family home for 527 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. So at the time, her parents 528 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: were overseas and they'd done a house swat with people 529 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: that Madison didn't know, so she needed to vacate, so 530 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: they went to Balley and at the time, a listener 531 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: had also sent us a real estate dot Com link 532 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: to what appeared to be the Woolies' Noosa home, and 533 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: the home was being advertised as a rental, so it 534 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: all fit in with the story Madison shared on her podcast. 535 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: So she has come out and confirmed that that was 536 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: not her parents' house. So I did want to clear 537 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: things up. 538 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 5: What all guys in New York want is to date 539 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 5: the like candid girlfriend. 540 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: TikTok has a new label to categorize women, and it's 541 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: called the candid girlfriend. So the term was coined by 542 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: comedian Steph Dag on popular TikTok account Subway Takes. For 543 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: those who aren't familiar with this account, comedian Kareem Rama 544 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: ask people on the subway for their hottest takes. So 545 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: Steph shared her take on the New York dating scene, 546 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: saying this, what's your take? 547 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 5: My take is that all guys think they want to 548 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 5: date the like cool, hot, artsy batty girlfriend with like 549 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 5: baby bangs and a bad father. But that's actually not 550 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 5: the case at all. What all guys in New York 551 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 5: want is to date the like candid girlfriend. You can 552 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 5: trademark that candid girlfriend is a girl who's like five 553 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 5: five and a half naturally Finn has mousey brown hair 554 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 5: no longer than shoulder length. She's like from New Hampshire, 555 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 5: maybe studied art history, and I would say the biggest 556 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 5: part of her personality is that she like loves pomegranate 557 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 5: and her boyfriend thinks that's like so quirky and adorable. 558 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: Now, Steph went on to say that the candid girlfriend 559 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: is the patient zero of the pick me girl. She's 560 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: not actually trying to be picked but just authentically has 561 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: nothing going on in her brain. The stand up comedian 562 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: said that you can easily spot this type of woman 563 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: on her boyfriend's social media. While she's never the avert 564 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: center of attention, her boyfriend will post film photos of 565 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: the back of her head to his Instagram story. She'll 566 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: also usually appear on slide three of the boyfriend's photo 567 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: dump and be referred to as this one. According to Steph, 568 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: all guys want a candid girlfriend because they can make 569 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: a muse out of her and if you need any 570 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: more science, candid girlfriends apparently like poetry and Japanese culture, 571 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: and Steph finished up by saying, I would love to 572 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: meet one of them. I'm a girl's girl. I want 573 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: to see you up close. I want to touch your skin. 574 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: Her name is Emily. They're taking the hot men. 575 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: So is the idea of the candid girlfriend someone who 576 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: will be walked all over, who's happy to just be 577 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 2: in the background. Is that the vibe? 578 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: That is definitely the vibe and it seems to have 579 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: resonated with a lot of people because the video has 580 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 1: clocked up over thirteen million views and sparked a big debate. 581 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: So many people were quick to tell Steph how spot 582 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: on her take was, and they actually began naming and 583 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: shaming women that they believe fell into this category. So 584 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: some of the names included Alexa Chung, Suki Waterhouse, and 585 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: Jess koh Now. Another TikToker suggested that Steph had just 586 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: sparked a fashion and beauty micro trend and candid girlfriend 587 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: core was coming. 588 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 2: The candid girlfriend it reminds me of when you're interested 589 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 2: in the guy you check out his social media. You 590 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 2: can't really see the girlfriend in many of the shots 591 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 2: until you do look through a few photo dumps and 592 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 2: you're like, oh, there she is. And as you say, 593 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: she's not the center of attention. She's happy not to 594 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 2: take up too much space. She's happy to let the 595 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 2: guy do whatever he wants, possibly cheat, just as long 596 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 2: as she's there. 597 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you do get a certain vibe and I kind 598 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: of know the person that she is talking about. There 599 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: were a lot of people who weren't happy with Steph's take, 600 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: so some accused Steph of internalized misogyny, saying that her 601 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: criticisms were too pointed and it was argued her contempt 602 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: was directed at the woman rather than the men who 603 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: projected this fantasy on her. So some even claimed Steph 604 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: likely lost her boyfriend to a candid girlfriend. 605 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 2: Well, do you blame her? You're always going to paint 606 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: a particular character ark for the person this steals your partner, 607 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: or the person that your partner moves on with. 608 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I don't want to get too technical. But 609 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: while her delivery may have been off, what Steph was 610 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: essentially saying is there's a difference between what men say 611 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: they desire to what they actually desire, and science sadly 612 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: does back this up. So men will often claim that 613 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: they want a smart, interesting, and successful woman. However, countless 614 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: studies have revealed that men actually pursue women they perceive 615 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: as less intelligent to them, which actually falls into this trend. 616 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: So a study conducted by Columbia University in two thousand 617 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: and six found that men valued women's intelligence only until 618 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: it matched their own, and they actually found women whose 619 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: ambition exceeded theirs to be off putting. 620 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: Even though this study was conducted almost twenty years ago, 621 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 2: I think that this still very much rings true, and 622 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 2: I think that there are a lot of men in 623 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: society who don't like to have their intelligence challenged. They 624 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 2: want to come home to someone who is going to 625 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: sit and listen to their every word and be in 626 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: awe of what they say. But nowadays, I don't think 627 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 2: that they're going to find too many women who want 628 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 2: to do this and don't have their own ambitions and 629 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 2: their own dreams. 630 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: See. I don't know if that is the case, because 631 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: I think gender roles are still very much ingrained in 632 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: heterosexual relationships. I mean, earlier this week we were speaking 633 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: about how the trad wife trend is all over TikTok. 634 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: At the moment, people are being urged to get into 635 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: their feminine energy. There is a switch that is happening 636 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,719 Speaker 1: at the moment, and I still think a lot of 637 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: men feel a great pressure to be the bread winner 638 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: and are therefore threatened by intelligent and successful women. And 639 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: that is why we are seeing so many people relate 640 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: to this candid girlfriend trend. In terms of whether I 641 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: think the candid girlfriend actually exists, I think that the 642 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: concept is a fantasy for men, and I don't actually 643 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: think that the person really does exist. It's more of 644 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: a take on how men want some women to be. 645 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 2: I think it's also a take on this character we 646 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: create for women on social media and the way that 647 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 2: men share about their partners on social media, because she 648 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 2: might look like this real, chilled girlfriend who's happy to 649 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 2: take the back seed and won't talk up, but we 650 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,959 Speaker 2: don't know what goes on in people's real life relationships. 651 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: I do think there are some women out there who 652 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: can be slightly complicit with this fantasy though, so while 653 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: they might not say it out loud, there are a 654 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: lot of straight women out there that want a partner 655 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: that earns more money than them. 656 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, but is this about someone earning more money than 657 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: you or wanting to be smarter than you, Because sometimes 658 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 2: you can be smarter than someone, but you're not necessarily 659 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 2: taking home a bigger bank check than them. 660 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: I think it more links into the breadwinner concept and 661 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: that while women might not admit it, there is a 662 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: level of attraction to men that do have the capacity 663 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: to provide for someone innately. You might feel that you 664 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: might not say it out loud, but I do think 665 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: that that comes into dating a lot. That is where 666 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,239 Speaker 1: we're going to leave things today. But if you do 667 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,719 Speaker 1: want to hear more from us, We drop a subscriber 668 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: only episode every Thursday, so please consider signing up to 669 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: Outspoken Plus. All the details are in the show notes. 670 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: Thank you again for listening to another episode of Outspoken. 671 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the traditional land of the 672 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: Ghana people of the Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to 673 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: elders past and present.