1
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

2
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,399
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just on answers now.

3
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 2: And our emotions are like leaves and rippers. They float

4
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,759
Speaker 2: past and then they disappear. The reason that the emotion

5
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:19,759
Speaker 2: stays for a long time is because we dam up

6
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,480
Speaker 2: the river. We try to block the leaves from floating away.

7
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

8
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:26,760
Speaker 1: and dad.

9
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,040
Speaker 2: Every Tuesday on the Happy Families podcast, we answer a

10
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 2: listener question. You can send your questions to podcasts that's

11
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,520
Speaker 2: podcasts with an s at happy families dot com dot au.

12
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,960
Speaker 2: My name's Justin. I'm here with Kylie, my wife and

13
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,880
Speaker 2: mum to our six kids. We've got a few years

14
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,360
Speaker 2: of parenting experience between as, haven't we, Honey. Our eldest

15
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,960
Speaker 2: daughter is twenty three and a half. We're coming up

16
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 2: to our twenty fifth wedding anniversary. It's just around the corner.

17
00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 2: And we have six daughters. Our youngest is still in

18
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 2: primary school grade three years old, about to turn nine.

19
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,039
Speaker 2: The clock's ticking. We've got ten years to go until

20
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,240
Speaker 2: we no longer have any parents, so that will be

21
00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,920
Speaker 2: a combined total of thirty three years thirty three years

22
00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,360
Speaker 2: of parenting children from the time we had our firstborn

23
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 2: until the time our last born turns eighteen. So here's

24
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,120
Speaker 2: the thing, thirty three years.

25
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 3: It doesn't ever end.

26
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,559
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know, but that's the whole

27
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 2: We've got kids in the house that are dependent on us.

28
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 2: I look at how much our parents go through now

29
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,600
Speaker 2: that they've got adult children, like properly adult children. In fact,

30
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 2: my parents just became great grandparents.

31
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:39,120
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

32
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,679
Speaker 2: That is crazy. So they became grandparents obviously when we

33
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,360
Speaker 2: had our kids. But I have a sister who had

34
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,040
Speaker 2: a child very young, a daughter very young, and that

35
00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,520
Speaker 2: daughter has just had her first baby very young. So

36
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 2: my parents are great grandparents. They're not even seventy yet

37
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,160
Speaker 2: and they're great grandparents. I think it's phenomenal. It's amazing.

38
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,520
Speaker 2: So we're not here to talk about that, but that's

39
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 2: who we are. We've got a few years of parenting

40
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 2: experience under the belt, as all I'm saying, and I've

41
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 2: got a PhD in psychology. I love to talk about

42
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,919
Speaker 2: how to make families happier. Today's question, Kylie, comes from

43
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,079
Speaker 2: somebody who wanted to remain anonymous. They've just signed their

44
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,320
Speaker 2: email to us J with an X. I guess the

45
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,920
Speaker 2: excess for a kiss They've said, Hi, Kylie and Justin.

46
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,080
Speaker 2: I have a six and a half year old daughter,

47
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:29,000
Speaker 2: intelligent and sassy, but also can be extremely sensitive and

48
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 2: finds it hard to separate from HBI and I, but

49
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,760
Speaker 2: especially me. This has been an ongoing issue since she

50
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 2: started daycare at two years old and continues now as

51
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,120
Speaker 2: she's in Grade one. Growing up, the term sensitive was

52
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 2: applied to me, but always in a negative way. You're

53
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 2: too sensitive. You shouldn't think that way. I know now

54
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,239
Speaker 2: that it can be a wonderful, amazing thing to be sensitive,

55
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 2: but I'm very conscious of others labeling her in the

56
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 2: same way they labeled me. Also, how can I guide

57
00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 2: her so that her sensitivity does not cause her so

58
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,160
Speaker 2: much emotional distress? She struggles so much already with the

59
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,840
Speaker 2: separation issues, attempts school avoidance, and finds the ever changing

60
00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,760
Speaker 2: dynamics of little girl friendships so difficult. Would love to

61
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts, Jay, So, Kylie, there's a few things

62
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 2: to talk about here. We've got the sensitivity other people's judgments.

63
00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:23,040
Speaker 2: We've also got school avoidance and little girl friendships being difficult.

64
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,640
Speaker 2: A whole lot to talk about a short podcast. This

65
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,680
Speaker 2: is the podcast for the time poor parent who just

66
00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,359
Speaker 2: wants answers now. So I think we'll see if we

67
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 2: can help Jay with just some Kickstarter ideas on each

68
00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 2: of those things. Where would you like to start? What

69
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 2: about if we start with what other people are saying

70
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 2: about your sensitive child? I think we can take that

71
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 2: one off nice and quickly.

72
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,200
Speaker 3: I think that mums are keenly aware of it more

73
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 3: so than dads.

74
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 2: Is this the mother guilt thing or do you think

75
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 2: it's something else.

76
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 3: I think it's the mother bear and us who wants

77
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 3: to protect We have this deep need to protect our

78
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 3: kids from hurt. Yeah, not the physical hurt that I

79
00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 3: think dads are keen to protect them from, that emotional

80
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,640
Speaker 3: hurt because we've experienced it at such an intimate level

81
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 3: ourselves as younger children. And so for me, the thought

82
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,839
Speaker 3: that somebody would think badly about my child, they don't

83
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 3: even have to say it, just that they would think

84
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 3: badly or view my child in a negative way.

85
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,839
Speaker 2: You don't want you child to be misunderstood much breaking.

86
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,279
Speaker 3: It's heartbreaking. So what I'm about to say is going

87
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 3: to feel so harsh, really.

88
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 2: You're going to say something provocative. That's my job, and it's.

89
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,880
Speaker 3: Something that I struggle with to this day. But I

90
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,279
Speaker 3: heard it, and it makes so much sense.

91
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,799
Speaker 2: If only I could lose it. What is it?

92
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,520
Speaker 3: It's really none of my business what other people think.

93
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,919
Speaker 3: I don't have any control over it. I could manipulate

94
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:53,720
Speaker 3: every possible situation to frame my child in a positive light,

95
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,520
Speaker 3: and there will still be someone who will see them

96
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,000
Speaker 3: in a bad way because that's their choice and their prerogative.

97
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 2: But we still want them to think nicely about our kids.

98
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 2: I know it's not our business, but we really want

99
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,360
Speaker 2: people to like our kids because we see our kids

100
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,240
Speaker 2: as an extension or reflection of us, and if they

101
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,440
Speaker 2: don't like our kids, that can feel like we're being

102
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 2: rejected totally.

103
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,839
Speaker 3: And I guess that's where building the village is so important,

104
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 3: finding safe people who love your children. We had a

105
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:29,279
Speaker 3: child who massive emotions, massive emotions, and she literally did

106
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,880
Speaker 3: not get invited to birthday parties. She wasn't included in

107
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 3: any social outings. She was not able to be socialized

108
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 3: with other people, yes, totally. Parents had decided her big

109
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,880
Speaker 3: emotions meant that she was not a child that they

110
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,800
Speaker 3: wanted their children to associate with Ye, and yet there

111
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,240
Speaker 3: were a handful of people who saw her for her

112
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,520
Speaker 3: and fiercely, I'm talking fiercely. They became like second mothers

113
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,720
Speaker 3: to her. They loved her, and to this day they

114
00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,120
Speaker 3: are a safe place for her to go and they

115
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,560
Speaker 3: are the people you want in your corner.

116
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:02,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can't.

117
00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:08,440
Speaker 3: You can't. You can't change the whole environment. You can't,

118
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 3: you can't fix everybody.

119
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 2: And it's not just the mean. I know there's some

120
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,680
Speaker 2: judgment out there. And I get what Jay is saying

121
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,280
Speaker 2: in this email that I don't want my daughter to

122
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 2: be judged as being sensitive. But people are going to

123
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 2: make judgments about our kids no matter what. And they

124
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,520
Speaker 2: might judge them as being sensitive, or they might think

125
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 2: that they're too boisterous, or they're loud, or they're arrogant,

126
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,760
Speaker 2: and they think that they know everything. Like, there's always

127
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:31,560
Speaker 2: going to be some judgment. And our job is to

128
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 2: be comfortable enough in our own skin that we're okay

129
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,159
Speaker 2: with other people thinking things about our children. Because those

130
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 2: other people, they're getting a snapshot, they're getting a moment

131
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 2: in time. They don't really know what our child is,

132
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,480
Speaker 2: who our child is what they're capable of, and further

133
00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 2: to that they've got It's important for all of us

134
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,600
Speaker 2: to remember that children are on a tremendous developmental trajectory,

135
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,360
Speaker 2: and this snapshot, this moment in time, is just that tomorrow,

136
00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 2: next week, next year, you will have a somewhat different child. Sure,

137
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,320
Speaker 2: some characteristics are consistent and stable over time, but the

138
00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 2: child still grows and learns and matures and develops them.

139
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,960
Speaker 2: Your idea kind of ties in with something that I

140
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,040
Speaker 2: wanted to say, not about being sensitive to what other

141
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 2: people are judging about this little six and a half

142
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,600
Speaker 2: year old, but rather the sensitivity that the child has.

143
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,640
Speaker 2: I want to again say something that's a little bit provocative,

144
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 2: a little bit hard here, but I think it's really important,

145
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,680
Speaker 2: and that is be careful not to put your own

146
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 2: labels onto a child. You were sensitive, Now you're saying

147
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 2: that you've got a sensitive child. But children are sensitive,

148
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,080
Speaker 2: but they're also not They have their moments in every direction.

149
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think also there's an acknowledgment that she's

150
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,880
Speaker 3: now coming to a place where she's learning and recognizing

151
00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 3: that being sensitive doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing.

152
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think the whole community is coming to

153
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,200
Speaker 2: that recognition.

154
00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 3: The opportunity she has to help her child recognize and

155
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,720
Speaker 3: see that being sensitive is actually a blessing. But it

156
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,240
Speaker 3: comes with a heavy burden at times because you feel

157
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,160
Speaker 3: so deeply and you experience the good and the bad,

158
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,000
Speaker 3: but without the bad, we don't actually get to feel

159
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 3: the full experience of the good, and so it feels

160
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,160
Speaker 3: like a double edged sword. But it can be so just.

161
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 3: Life can be so much more fruitful if we're willing

162
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,320
Speaker 3: to really feel and live into the experiences that we have.

163
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 2: So to extend on what you've just said and sort

164
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 2: of round out what I was going to suggest in

165
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,079
Speaker 2: terms of this child's big emotions, because the child clearly

166
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 2: does have some sensitivities and wants to not separate from

167
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,200
Speaker 2: not separate from Dad, is struggling a bit with school.

168
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,000
Speaker 2: We've got the school avoidance. I would add, we need

169
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,400
Speaker 2: to become comfortable with our children feeling uncomfortable at times,

170
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:56,400
Speaker 2: because when we demonstrate unease at our child's big emotions,

171
00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 2: our child is actually going to receive some level of

172
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,760
Speaker 2: reinforcement from being our discomfort with their discomfort.

173
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,360
Speaker 3: Whereas if we can it reinforces the fact that they

174
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,160
Speaker 3: should feel that way. Precisely, some feels uncomfortable about this situation,

175
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,079
Speaker 3: so clearly there's something here that I can't see right.

176
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 3: It's bigger than me.

177
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 2: And then we get this negative emotional spiral as each

178
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 2: person feeds off the other. There's a contagion to that emotion.

179
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,120
Speaker 2: Emotions are contagious. So what I would say to Jay

180
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,720
Speaker 2: is take a breath, and when your child is feeling uncomfortable,

181
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 2: maybe detach yourself a little bit from the outcome. Detach

182
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 2: yourself a bit from the emotion. Obviously, you care very

183
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,880
Speaker 2: much about your child. I'm not saying to detach yourself

184
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 2: from your child, but just recognize, well, right now which

185
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,880
Speaker 2: I was having this big emotion. I used to love

186
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:40,480
Speaker 2: to use the metaphor, and I haven't done it for

187
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:41,960
Speaker 2: a long time. I haven't been asked to teach the

188
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,760
Speaker 2: anxiety content for a while, but I used to in

189
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 2: my anxiety workshop talk about the visualization of a leaf

190
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 2: floating down a river, and you can watch the leaf

191
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 2: fall out of the tree, hit the water, float down

192
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,800
Speaker 2: past you as you sit on that beautiful grassy river

193
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 2: bank in the sun. Watch that leaf float down around

194
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,720
Speaker 2: the river bend until it's out of sight. Emotions like

195
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 2: leaves and rippers, they float past and then they disappear.

196
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,559
Speaker 2: The reason that the emotion stays for a long time

197
00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,319
Speaker 2: is because we keep feeding it. We dam up the river,

198
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,760
Speaker 2: We try to block the leaves from floating away. We say, oh,

199
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,280
Speaker 2: you're having a big emotion. We need to talk about

200
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 2: the emotions. This is a controversial thing to say, because

201
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,840
Speaker 2: I'm aware that in our current way of thinking about

202
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,400
Speaker 2: psychology of emotions, that we really do elevate emotions, and

203
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,760
Speaker 2: we pay attention to emotions, emotions, the data emotions tell

204
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,520
Speaker 2: us so much. But sometimes I think we elevate emotions

205
00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,559
Speaker 2: too much. Sometimes I think that we focus so much

206
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,840
Speaker 2: on the emotion that somebody is having, We focus so

207
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,480
Speaker 2: deeply on their emotional experience. We get so invested in

208
00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,320
Speaker 2: the emotion that the emotion begins to drive everything that

209
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,480
Speaker 2: we're doing in terms of the way our household functions,

210
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,360
Speaker 2: the way we interact with other people. Sometimes it's okay

211
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,079
Speaker 2: to say, you're having a really big emotion right now,

212
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 2: aren't you. Let's just watch that emotion float around the

213
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,480
Speaker 2: corner like a leaf in a river, and then we'll

214
00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 2: get on with things. So have the emotion. Let it

215
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,280
Speaker 2: happen safely, but don't make a big deal about it,

216
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:02,840
Speaker 2: and just get on with it.

217
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,440
Speaker 3: And I think that that's where a healthy appreciation for

218
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 3: emotions happens, when we're able to acknowledge the emotion and

219
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 3: then let it go. Yeah, that's the trick. It's like

220
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 3: my training able to let it go.

221
00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,640
Speaker 2: My train in the tunnel metaphor, the train will always

222
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 2: come out of the tunnel. It goes into the mountain

223
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,080
Speaker 2: that comes out the other side. Sometimes the tunnel is

224
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 2: really really long, but there's no point pulling out the

225
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,720
Speaker 2: earth moving equipment and starting to make a big mess

226
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 2: by digging up the mountain to pull the train out.

227
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,839
Speaker 2: It will come out eventually with no mess whatsoever. If

228
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 2: we just say, Okay, big emotion, let's give it an hour,

229
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,800
Speaker 2: let's give it ten minutes, let's give it a day,

230
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,439
Speaker 2: like I had to with you just recently, and the

231
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 2: train comes out of the tunnel and things get better.

232
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,320
Speaker 3: So, having worked in childcare in our early days of marriage,

233
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,839
Speaker 3: one of the things that always used to astound me

234
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,040
Speaker 3: before I was a parent was to see these massive

235
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,080
Speaker 3: emotions of children. Was working in the todd of the room,

236
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,839
Speaker 3: massive emotions with our children as mums and dads tried

237
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,800
Speaker 3: to say goodbye and walk out, And then as soon

238
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:08,040
Speaker 3: as my.

239
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,559
Speaker 2: Dad left, running and playing and happy.

240
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 3: It was like a light bulb switch and they had

241
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,760
Speaker 3: completely changed their tune and they're okay. And so often

242
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 3: the separation anxiety that our children experience is actually feeding

243
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,920
Speaker 3: off the anxiety that we have for leaving them because

244
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 3: we feel bad, yes, and it's really really hard to

245
00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 3: get over that. But if we don't come to terms

246
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,880
Speaker 3: with our own separation anxiety, then our children never will.

247
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 3: It will just continue to feed on each other. And

248
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 3: so the power in recognizing that your child, you are

249
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 3: literally taking your child to a safe place. They have

250
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 3: teachers who love and care for them, and they will

251
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,920
Speaker 3: have a great day if you can live into that

252
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,079
Speaker 3: and walk away nice, calm, cool, collected.

253
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,679
Speaker 2: And compassionate and kind. It's not like you walk in

254
00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 2: and say you're safe here, have a good day, and

255
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 2: you walk away. It's not cold, there's nothing harsh. And

256
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,000
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure if that detachment word that I

257
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,640
Speaker 2: used earlier is is the right word, because you are attached,

258
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,559
Speaker 2: of course, but there's an emotional stability, there's an emotional

259
00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,320
Speaker 2: confidence that we want to have as parents to help

260
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,280
Speaker 2: our kids realize, Yeah, we get it's hard, but we

261
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:20,240
Speaker 2: know that you'll be okay.

262
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 3: Conversations in the car pre arming our children about what's

263
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 3: going to happen. Mum's going to get there, We're going

264
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,000
Speaker 3: to put your bag away, We're going to say hello

265
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,360
Speaker 3: to your teacher, and then mum's going to give you

266
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:29,760
Speaker 3: a cuddle and a kiss, and I'm going to leave.

267
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,440
Speaker 3: I will be back at three o'clock. They can. You know,

268
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,079
Speaker 3: she's six and a half, so she can read the

269
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 3: time on the clock. She knows. And then once I

270
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,720
Speaker 3: pick you up, we're going to go and visit Grandma,

271
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,400
Speaker 3: or we're going to go to the park with your

272
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 3: friend or whatever. It is pre arming them about what's

273
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,400
Speaker 3: going to happen and then giving them something to look

274
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 3: forward to at the other end of the day. It

275
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 3: can be really powerful as well.

276
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,000
Speaker 2: So the last thing we need to talk about is

277
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,560
Speaker 2: school avoidance and those challenging friendships. We've got a really

278
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 2: great article online about dealing with when school feels horrible

279
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,320
Speaker 2: for kids, and I also had one about school refusal

280
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,240
Speaker 2: that I wrote last year. We will link to both

281
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 2: of those articles in our show notes rather than talking

282
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,200
Speaker 2: about it at length in the podcast, because there's so

283
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,400
Speaker 2: much we could talk about. I just want to mention

284
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 2: a couple of things, friendships and relationships. If we can

285
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 2: build great relationships at school and also great relationships outside

286
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 2: of school, I think you're going to find that the

287
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 2: kids tend to want to be where their friends are,

288
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 2: and so if they've got some relationships that have been

289
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,400
Speaker 2: built in a healthy way at school, they're much more

290
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 2: likely to want to be there, and school should go easier.

291
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 2: The higher quality of the friendships at school, the easier

292
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,160
Speaker 2: it goes. But also have friendships outside of school, so

293
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,120
Speaker 2: that school isn't the only place, because it can be

294
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 2: a dynamic place. Friendships chop and change a lot, and

295
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 2: so we want to give kids every opportunity in and

296
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 2: outside of school.

297
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 3: Well, I think the last thing is just to remember

298
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 3: that friendships, relationships, and all of this big emotion stuff,

299
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 3: it just takes time.

300
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and kids will mature a.

301
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 3: Level of age maturity that needs to take place for

302
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 3: these things to fall into place. But some kids, not

303
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,360
Speaker 3: all kids. Some kids just fall into life and everything

304
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,240
Speaker 3: seems to be easy for them, But there are other

305
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 3: kids a little bit more sensitive, just struggle, and it's

306
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 3: a time thing, and we're watching that with our children.

307
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 2: It's funny, going full circle to the start of our conversation.

308
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 2: We're talking about all the years of bearning experience that

309
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 2: we've got with so many children and so many years

310
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:33,160
Speaker 2: of this, and I reckon in understanding Jay's email, if

311
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 2: this was our first child, our six and a half

312
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 2: year old going through this, we would have been so worried.

313
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 2: We would have been so concerned about this sort of stuff,

314
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 2: having been through it as many times as we have. Now,

315
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 2: it's actually one of those things where if we can

316
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 2: take a breath and say, you know what, I've got

317
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 2: to trust, I can trust in my child's innate desire

318
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,800
Speaker 2: to create healthy relationships. Just having that trust in them

319
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 2: is probably enough. It feels so differently about it now

320
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,760
Speaker 2: than how you and I would have felt about it

321
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,040
Speaker 2: eighteen years ago when we were going through it ourselves

322
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 2: for the first time. And Jay, I guess the last

323
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,360
Speaker 2: piece of advice therefore, would be take a breather and trust.

324
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,480
Speaker 2: Just trust that your child is organismically designed to find

325
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,200
Speaker 2: a way through this and to do it in a

326
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 2: healthy and productive way. You just create a supportive environment

327
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 2: and she'll be all right. The Happy Family's podcast is

328
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 2: produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is

329
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 2: our executive producer. We so very much appreciate that you

330
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,920
Speaker 2: listen to the podcast. If you're enjoying the podcast, well,

331
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to be really honest about it, and I

332
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 2: hope you don't mind me saying this, Kylie, but we

333
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 2: want more people to listen to the podcast because it

334
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 2: will make their family happier. So if you could take

335
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,479
Speaker 2: like thirty seconds and leave a quick review at Apple Podcasts,

336
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 2: just five stars. Here's what I love about the podcast.

337
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 2: And when you do that, Google and Apple and all

338
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 2: of the algorithms pushed the podcast into the feeds of

339
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,280
Speaker 2: people who might also like it. It's your reviews that

340
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,240
Speaker 2: make it more visible. So please jump online and do

341
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 2: that for us. We'd be so so very great. Tomorrow,

342
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 2: some more stuff about school, which will be helpful for

343
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 2: any parent of any child who isn't loving school. Right now,

344
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,200
Speaker 2: we talk to the author of the book, teacher Gabbie Stroud,

345
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 2: on the Happy Families podcast