1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: the Daily Ours. Oh now it makes sense. Good morning 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: and welcome to the Daily Ours. It's Thursday, the fifth 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: of December. I'm Harry, I'm Zara. Australia is in a 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: housing crisis. You've probably heard that phrase used many times 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: in the past few years. For young people, it means 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: being locked out of home ownership and struggling to find 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: affordable rentals. So what can the government do to ease 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: these pressures. TDA reached out to Housing Minister Clara O'Neil 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: to get some answers. 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 2: So, Harry, we speak about housing all the time on 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: this podcast, but it's usually two of us hosts sitting 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: here talking about whether it be a report or new 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: housing prices. But we haven't had the opportunity to put 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: the questions that we have and the questions that our 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: audience has to the minister, the person to be asking this, 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: to talk me through some of the ideas that you 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: discussed with Clara O'Neil. 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: Well, as you mentioned there, we do talk about a 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: housing crisis so often and no one listening to this 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: podcast or watching us on YouTube needs to be reminded 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: of that. So rents are going up, the cost of 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: homes are also going up. They're about thirty percent higher 24 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: on average around Australia compared to before COVID nineteen. We 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: talk about it so often. So that's why since she 26 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: became Housing Minister in July, Clara O'Neil is someone I've 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: been really wanting to talk to because I think it 28 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: is really easy to talk about a crisis. It's harder 29 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: to talk about what to do about a. 30 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, solutions, I was going to say, so, I feel 31 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 2: like so much of the conversation is about the problem, 32 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: and again you're right, like everyone can identify the problem, 33 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: but when we move into the solutions space, there's less 34 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: conversation there. 35 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: And Clara O'Neil herself is really conscious of this issue. 36 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: She says she speaks to a lot of young people 37 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: who are feeling hopeless. And so that's why I think 38 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: the Daily Odds is the perfect place to talk about 39 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: some of the things that the government wants to do, 40 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: plans to do, and also to put some of the 41 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: concerns that our audience have to claronial herself. 42 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: And so you did ask our audience directly ahead of 43 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: your interview with the minister what they wanted to know. 44 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: Can you talk me through what some of the key 45 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: questions that emerged were. 46 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: I was really impressed with the responses. It looks like 47 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: our audience are really engaged in the housing debates. So 48 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: I had a lot of questions about policy, about how 49 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: many homes of the government's actually been able to build 50 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: or oversee the building, of what the government specifically can 51 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: do for renters. But the number one phrase that I 52 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: saw pop up time and again in our responses was 53 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: negative gearing. 54 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: What is negative gearing? 55 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: It's my favorite thing to talk about, Sarah. So negative 56 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: gearing is a tax discount for property owners. So when 57 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,279 Speaker 1: you own a property and you're paying off the expenses 58 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: like interest and strata fees, those kinds of things, if 59 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: those expenses outweigh the income that you receive on that 60 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: property from rent, then you can use that difference as 61 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: a discount on your income tax. And so it's a 62 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: bit of a complicated calculation, but effectively it's one of 63 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: those issues that our audience has heard a lot about, 64 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: and there are a range of views in favor and 65 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: against negative gearing, and they were really keen to hear 66 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: what the current government believes and if they have any 67 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: plans to change negative gearing as it currently stands. 68 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: All right, well, Harry, without further ado, let's get into 69 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: your interview with Housing Minister Clara O'Neil. 70 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: Clara O'Neil, thank you so much for joining the Daily Ours. 71 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 3: I'm so thrilled to be with you, Harry. I'm a 72 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 3: huge fan of this publication. 73 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: So we hear time and time again that Australia is 74 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: in a housing crisis. What does that actually mean. 75 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 3: Well, what it means is that we have more or 76 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: less millions of people in our country for home housing 77 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 3: is a life defining I'm thinking they're about young people 78 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 3: who are lining up in rental queues on a Saturday 79 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: outbidding each other for a property that they may not 80 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: even want to live in. It's people who've bought in 81 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: really high house prices, high mortgages, who are in a 82 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 3: cost of living crisis, struggling to be able to look 83 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 3: after their families properly, and perhaps most concerningly at all, 84 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: it's an increasing number of people in our country who 85 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 3: are actually falling out of the bottom of the housing 86 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: market altogether into homelessness. So these problems have been building 87 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 3: and building in our country really for about thirty years now, 88 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: and our government, the Yabanese government, is really stepping up 89 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 3: and trying to do something significant about this problem. 90 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: You just mentioned young people there. Can you explain why 91 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: this generation is going to be worse off than their 92 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: parents when it comes to housing. 93 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 3: Well, I don't think we should quite wave the white 94 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: flag on that just yet. I think young people are 95 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: going through some horrendous difficulties with housing, and the people 96 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 3: that I'm most worried about when I look at what's 97 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 3: going on in the housing market are absolutely young people. 98 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 3: So what I want young people to know is that, 99 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 3: for the first time in my lifetime, we have a 100 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 3: Commonwealth government and state governments and local governments right around 101 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 3: the country who are urgently trying to address some issues 102 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: that frankly should have been dealt with decades ago but 103 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 3: weren't and it's going to take a little bit of 104 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: time for us to address them. But I don't think 105 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: that takes away at all from the problems that young 106 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 3: people are experiencing today. They're very real, and trust me, 107 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: talking to young people about that all the time. 108 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: So you've set out the problem there, I just want 109 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: to have a look at some of the solutions that 110 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: the government's putting on the table, maybe starting with home ownership. 111 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: Your main policy in this area is called help to Buy. 112 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: Can you just briefly explain what that is. 113 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, as well as all the work we're doing 114 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 3: to build more homes, we have a few specific things 115 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: that we're offering to first home owners. One of those 116 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 3: is helped to Buy. As you mentioned, So this is 117 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: a scheme that will assist forty thousand people to get 118 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 3: into the housing market. It's targeted at people who are 119 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: the people who are locked out at the moment, our 120 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 3: childcare workers, disability workers, other people who are on kind 121 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 3: of medium or lower incomes. And so that's a skin 122 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 3: that will affect forty thousand people. 123 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: How does that bring down house prices? Because that helps 124 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: people put down a deposit it, but does it actually 125 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: address the root cause of escalating prices when it comes 126 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: to housing. 127 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: So no, it doesn't, and it's not targeted at bringing 128 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 3: down house prices. The biggest problem we have. And if 129 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 3: there's one thing that your listeners take from this discussion 130 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 3: about housing, it should be this. The reason we have 131 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: a housing crisis in our country is because we haven't 132 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: been building enough homes, so that's why you're seeing that 133 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 3: really unsustainable house price growth, especially in some cities where 134 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,119 Speaker 3: there's huge pressure like Perth for example, is one area 135 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 3: where house prices have gone up very, very very high. 136 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 3: So the home ownership stuff is work that we are 137 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 3: doing that gives people some immediate assistance to get into 138 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: the housing market. We're not going to fix the house 139 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 3: price problem in our country overnight. What we can do 140 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 3: is make sure we're using our government supports to help 141 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: young people get into the housing market. 142 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: Just drilling into some of the policy specifics, you mentioned 143 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: that this helped to Buy scheme will help forty thousand 144 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: people over four years. The Greens have criticized this as 145 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: being a terrible policy because it effectively creates a lottery system. 146 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 1: Do you agree that it's a lottery? 147 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 3: No, because the scheme has yet to start. So it 148 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 3: starts next year, it'll be ten thousand places a year 149 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: and it won't be a lottery scheme. It will be 150 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: first come, first serve and we'll see what that demand 151 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 3: looks like. But if I can just say very respectfully, 152 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: I mean the way the Greens have behaved in the 153 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: housing debate hasn't been fantastic. A shared equity scheme, which 154 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: is what helped to buy Is, was part of their 155 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 3: platform going into the twenty twenty two election, and they 156 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: then held up our government from setting up a shared 157 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: equity scheme for a really long period of time and 158 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: that's had real consequences. We would have been able to 159 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: start that scheme in the middle of this year twenty 160 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: twenty four, and it's been delayed so respectfully, I'd love 161 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: to hear from other people who've got different points of view, 162 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 3: but I'm not sure we've seen the best behavior from 163 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 3: the Greens on this one. 164 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: I did a bit of a call out when we 165 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: announced that we would be interviewing the Housing Minister, and 166 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: the number one thing that they came back with was 167 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: negative gearing. Okay, what's your position on changing negative gearing. 168 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: My position is this, I want people to understand the 169 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 3: reason that we have a housing crisis is because we 170 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: haven't been building enough homes. 171 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: With respect, Minister, we will get to supply and I 172 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: definitely want to ask you more about the government's plans 173 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: to build more homes. 174 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 3: No, no, I know, and that the reason I'm pointing out 175 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 3: out Harry, is because every policy that we have we 176 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: assess from that lens, is it going to help us 177 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: build more homes? I think you'd be aware that our 178 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 3: government looked at changes to negative gearing and capital gains 179 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 3: tax and the you know, we couldn't clearly show that 180 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: there weren't going to be supplies shees created by that, 181 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 3: and so we decided not to progress with changes on 182 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: negative gearing and capital gains tax. Our policies are we're 183 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: trying to address those major supply issues, help renters get 184 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 3: a better deal, and help more Australians into home ownership, 185 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 3: and those are the focus for the moment. And I 186 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 3: just say also, Harry, my party took negative gearing changes 187 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: to two elections and the Australian people said, well, we 188 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 3: didn't get elected, we didn't get to make those changes. 189 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: So we've moved on from that debate. We're now focused 190 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 3: on the things that are really going to make a difference, 191 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 3: and that's building more homes. 192 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: So if the voters have rejected it at two previous elections, 193 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: does this mean that the government will never look at 194 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: changing negative gearing? Ever? 195 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 3: Again, it's just not the focus and it's not being 196 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 3: looked at at the moment, and I mean, obviously I 197 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: can't say what a government in ten or twenty years 198 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 3: time might do, but it's certainly not something that's been 199 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 3: considered by. 200 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: It got to the next five or ten years. 201 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 3: It's not something that's been considered by the government, and 202 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 3: the government's had to look at it and we've moved on. 203 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: Moving on to renting. The Australian dream has always been 204 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: to own your own home. Many people listening today will 205 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: be in a category of people known as forever renters 206 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: because they have given up on that dream. What's your 207 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: message to them, Well. 208 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 3: I don't want them to give up on that dream. 209 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 3: I think it's perfectly normal to rent when you're young 210 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: and you're moving around and you don't want to have 211 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 3: big financial levelgome. But certainly the aspiration of our government 212 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 3: is not to just consider that that dream's going to 213 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 3: end with this generation of young people. I'm genuinely really 214 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 3: concerned about the idea that young people feel that they're 215 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 3: never going to get into home ownership, and so the 216 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 3: government is doing everything we can to reshape that the 217 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: building more homes, making sure that when you are renting 218 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 3: that you're in a stable and secure place that you're 219 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: not getting kicked out or treated badly like your landlord. 220 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 3: And then also that work that we're doing to try 221 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: to help get more young people into home ownership. Now 222 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 3: we're having conversation here and you're putting the appropriate amounts 223 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 3: of pressure on me is you should do as a journalist. 224 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 3: But I just say to people listening at home, you 225 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: know the Commonwealth has not stepped up on housing for 226 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 3: a long long time in this country, and you do 227 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: have a Commonwealth government that's stepping in states that are 228 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 3: really working at this and trying to address all of 229 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 3: those barriers that are creating those problems at the moment, 230 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 3: and we are going to see change that results from that. 231 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: Looking at the cost of renting, I think a lot 232 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: of people listening today don't need to be reminded that 233 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: is just getting more and more expensive. The average cost 234 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: in the capital cities is six hundred and fifty dollars 235 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: and the average cost in the regions is five hundred 236 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: and fifty dollars. I know that this is a state issue, 237 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: but as the country's housing minister, do you want to 238 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: see caps on rent increases? 239 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 3: Absolutely not. So Firstly, renters are doing it really, really tough. 240 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 3: And if there was a single thing that we could 241 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 3: do to fix all the problems that renters are experiencing, 242 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 3: then I would absolutely be up for that. But it's 243 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: not that simple. So I don't support rent caps. And 244 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 3: you know, if you bring some experts onto the show 245 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: and talk to them, you'll get a really consistent answer 246 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 3: out of them. Economists in the world agree on almost nothing, 247 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: but almost all of them agree that rent caps is 248 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 3: ultimately going to create really really serious problems. So people 249 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 3: will stop building homes, they will stop offering their homes 250 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 3: for renters, they will create conditions where rentals become completely 251 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 3: run down and atrocious to live in, and basically we're 252 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 3: not going to have a functioning housing market anymore. So 253 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 3: this is just the consequence of rent caps. It's why 254 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 3: that you know, rent caps are reasonably rare when you 255 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: look at what's going on around the world. 256 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: The Act has them. Do you think that those dire 257 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: circumstances where you're left with poorly kempt rentals, do you 258 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: think that that's happening in the Act? 259 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 3: I mean, it's probably not happening in the Act. And 260 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 3: I'm not sure what the exact policy structure they have 261 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 3: for you know, the way that they're managing rentals there, 262 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 3: And as you say, this is a state issue, so 263 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,599 Speaker 3: not actually something I have control over, but I just 264 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 3: say generally, rent caps are a really bad idea. 265 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: So there are other forms of rental protections though, and 266 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: that could include capping the number of times that rents 267 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: increase in a single year. Is that something you're supported of? 268 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 3: It is, and that is something that the government is 269 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 3: pursuing through a national cabinet. So rental rights are managed 270 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 3: by state governments. That's a constitutional thing that renter's rights 271 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,719 Speaker 3: are managed by state governments, so our government doesn't want 272 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: to tap out of it. What we're trying to do 273 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 3: is work with the state premiers to make consistent changes 274 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 3: around the country to make renting a better experience. So 275 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 3: one of those is only allowing for one rental increase 276 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: a year. Another one of those is not allowing for 277 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 3: no fault evictions, so people can't get kicked out of 278 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 3: their rental property unless they've actually done something wrong, something 279 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 3: you know that would create problems for the landlord. So 280 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 3: these are being pursued through a national cabinet. What has 281 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 3: to happen is one of the just complexities of my work. 282 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 3: When the states own these powers, they have to actually 283 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 3: go through and legislate those changes state by state, and 284 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 3: the states are working through that at the moment. 285 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: So you've mentioned supply a few times. Now I just 286 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: want to ask about the government's plans to actually build 287 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: more homes. Can you just talk me through what the 288 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: federal government is doing in this space? Yeah? 289 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 3: Sure, So I've said a couple of times, the biggest 290 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 3: issue that we face here is that we don't have 291 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 3: enough housing, and we haven't been building enough housing over 292 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 3: a long period of time. So when we look at 293 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 3: how many houses we have per head of population, per 294 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: thousand people living in our country, our rates are quite 295 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 3: a bit beare low other countries that we compare ourselves to, 296 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 3: and that just reflects all those housing pressures that people 297 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 3: are feeling. So the adds to this is to build 298 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 3: more homes. And so we've sat down with the state 299 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 3: governments and said we are going to as a group, 300 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,599 Speaker 3: try to build one point two million homes over the 301 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: coming five years. So this is work that the states 302 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 3: have got to do around changing planning and zoning laws. 303 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 3: It's about making sure that we've got more construction workers 304 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 3: in our country. It's about providing funding where that's appropriate. 305 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 3: The Commonwealth is building, for example, fifty five thousand social 306 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 3: and affordable homes as part of that bid to get 307 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 3: to one point two million, So it's basically everyone trying 308 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 3: to do everything that they can to build more homes 309 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: as a country. And that's the first time this has 310 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 3: happened really since the post war period that we've all 311 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 3: tried to come together like that. 312 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: The Coalition says that migration is impacting supply. What are 313 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: your reflections on that argument. 314 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 3: Well, I agree that migration has a part in this discussion. 315 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 3: Of course it does, because the number of people living 316 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 3: in our country is a driver of how many houses 317 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 3: we need. It's really important not to exaggerate that and 318 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 3: politicize it though, and that's probably some of the concerns 319 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 3: I have with the debate at the moment. We had 320 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 3: a little bit of a real time experiment of what 321 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 3: happens to housing when our population goes down, as it 322 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: did during COVID when a lot of people who were 323 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: temporary migrants in our country left Australia and house prices 324 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 3: absolutely went through the roof. So I don't think you 325 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 3: can categorically say that migration is the cause of all 326 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 3: of these problems. However, migration has been high post COVID 327 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: and our government is reducing migration basically back to normal 328 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: levels and that will help over time. 329 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: So now that the government's two key pieces of legislation 330 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: has passed, that's helped by and build to rant in 331 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: the final sitting fortnite, what's next. 332 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 3: So it's been a really big week for housing. As 333 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 3: you mentioned, we've got two of these really important pieces 334 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 3: of the puzzle from our perspectives through the Senate. What's 335 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: next is a big push on implementation. So for a 336 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 3: lot of your listeners, they probably see government sort of 337 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: debating these things and all that sort of thing, and 338 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 3: then they switch off a little bit when legislation passes. 339 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: My job as minister now is to actually execute these 340 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 3: policies and make sure all these programs are set up 341 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 3: and helping the people that need to be helped. 342 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the. 343 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 3: Big focus for me. And then, of course, if no 344 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: one's heard yet, we've got an election coming pretty soon, 345 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: so there'll be a bit of work there too. 346 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: After New Year's Day week, I believe. 347 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 3: That's a bit of an insight. 348 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 349 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 3: No, No, I don't know when the election will be, 350 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 3: but it's going to be in some point of the 351 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 3: first half of next year. 352 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: So that's the big focus. Well, let's keep young people 353 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: engaged in the housing debate, talk them through what is 354 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: coming for them, because, as you mentioned, we are going 355 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: to an election, so what's on the table for them. 356 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 3: So what I would say to young people is that 357 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 3: you've got at the commonwealth level, the first Commonwealth government 358 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 3: in a really long time that is stepping up and 359 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 3: saying we've got a housing crisis in our country and 360 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 3: the Commonwealth must engage to get better housing for all Australians. 361 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 3: How are we doing that building more homes this big, 362 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 3: gutsy goal of building one point two million in homes, 363 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 3: fifty five thousand of those affordable and funded by our government. 364 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 3: We've also increased common Wealth for intsistence for a million 365 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 3: households by about forty five percent, which is important. And 366 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 3: then making sure that we help as many young people 367 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 3: into home ownership as we can. 368 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: You've previously said that the housing crisis is a generation 369 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: in the making. Is it going to take a generation 370 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: to fix it? 371 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 3: No? I don't think so genuinely. So some of the 372 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 3: things I'm talking about a five year time frame for you, 373 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 3: So that is what I would regard as a sort 374 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 3: of medium medium term projection. So we're doing what we 375 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: can in the short term and really focusing on that 376 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 3: five year time frame as the period where we can 377 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: make a big difference. 378 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: As a final thought, what does success look like for 379 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: you as Housing Minister? 380 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 3: It's seeing and talking to young people and then being 381 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 3: able to look me in the eye and say that 382 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 3: I feel optimistic about the future for myself and my 383 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: family with regard to housing and not having those continuous 384 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: conversations that I have with young people where they just 385 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 3: feel desolate, like they really do. And we don't want 386 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 3: to live in Australia where we have a generation of 387 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 3: kids who feel that this thing that's almost been a 388 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 3: part of our citizenship as a country is not accessible 389 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 3: and meaningful for them. And that's the problem that I 390 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 3: really want to do something about. And I hope people 391 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 3: here from this interview we are trying everything we can 392 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: to try to address some of these dynamics. 393 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: Clara Neil, thank you so much for joining the Daily 394 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: Ours so great to. 395 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 2: Talk to you. 396 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 3: Harry really appreciate it. 397 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,239 Speaker 1: Thanks, thank you, Thank you so much for joining us 398 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: on the Daily Ours. If you liked what you heard, 399 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: please follow us wherever you listen to your podcast or 400 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: if you're watching us on YouTube, be sure to hit 401 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: subscribe so that you see more of our daily deep dives. 402 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: We'll be back in your feeds later today for the headlines, 403 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: but until then, have a great day. My name is 404 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda Bungelung Caalcuttin woman 405 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: from Gadigal Country. The Daily os acknowledges that this podcast 406 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: is recorded on the land of the Gadigal people and 407 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. 408 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 3: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 409 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 3: both past and present.