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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: once answers.

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Speaker 1: Now, family life can be a little tricky now and

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Speaker 1: then there's a lot to coordinate things. Sometimes it's one

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Speaker 1: of the bottom drops out and things go pear shaped.

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Speaker 1: Came across a fabulous quote a little while ago from

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Speaker 1: James Clear, the author of I think he sold fifteen

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Speaker 1: million copies of Atomic Habits now clytie like one of

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Speaker 1: the best selling books in recent years, if not the

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Speaker 1: best phenomenal.

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Speaker 2: I saw a girl reading Atomic Habits in the cafe

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Speaker 2: the other day.

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Speaker 1: Did you give her a high five and sort of

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Speaker 1: get right into a conversation with her about it?

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Speaker 2: I actually wanted to buy eye chickened out. I thought

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Speaker 2: I was pretty excited.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great book. Anyway, James Clear said this, and

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Speaker 1: this is not in the book. This was something else

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Speaker 1: that I found that he'd written. He said, most big,

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Speaker 1: deeply satisfying accomplishments in life take at least five years

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Speaker 1: to achieve. This can include building a business, cultivate, eating

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Speaker 1: a loving relationship, writing a book, getting in the best

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Speaker 1: shape of your life, raising a family, and more. Five

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Speaker 1: years is a long time. It's much slower than most

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Speaker 1: of us would like. If you accept the reality of

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Speaker 1: slow progress, you have every reason to take action today.

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Speaker 1: If you resist the reality of slow progress, five years

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Speaker 1: from now, you'll simply be five years older and still

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Speaker 1: looking for a shortcut. How good is that? So cool

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Speaker 1: to make you want to go on exercise? It's tempting, yeah,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. Let's finish the podcast. No, I'm just kidding, Kylie.

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Speaker 1: Today's conversation is about building a better family, building a

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Speaker 1: flourishing family. We've broached this on the podcast before. I

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Speaker 1: know how to settle this. Yeah, whacking what no family meeting? Oh,

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Speaker 1: the topic of family meetings. I'm raising it because they're

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Speaker 1: hard to do. They're hard to get right. But when

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Speaker 1: you do and do them consistently, that five your project

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Speaker 1: to making your family happy. Well, you can kind of

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Speaker 1: speed it up. It is a semi shortcut. And there

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Speaker 1: was an article on The Conversation recently, the Conversation being

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Speaker 1: that academic website that's out there that just sort of

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Speaker 1: prompted me to think, hmm, we need to revisit this

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Speaker 1: because it was a great article to bring the topic up,

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Speaker 1: but it didn't do much to give people concrete, practical strategies.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk family meetings. You used to do them

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Speaker 1: in your home when you were growing up.

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Speaker 2: When we got married, you said, let's have a family meeting.

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Speaker 1: It was just you and I, let's have like a

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Speaker 1: couple's meeting.

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Speaker 2: And it didn't go very well, and you couldn't work out.

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Speaker 2: You couldn't work out what was going on. You wouldn't

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Speaker 2: talk every time we sat down. Everything that came out

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Speaker 2: of your mouth felt like an attack to me, and

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Speaker 2: I just clam up.

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Speaker 1: Which it wasn't. I was saying, let's improve our lives,

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Speaker 1: our relationships, let's be awesome, because I think we can be.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't until months later that we started to

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Speaker 2: really kind of look into why it was that way

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Speaker 2: for me, and I started sharing with you what family

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Speaker 2: meetings were like in my home growing up.

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Speaker 1: I have two words for you to explain it. Bag

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Speaker 1: edge that's one word. Yeah, well, but it felt like

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Speaker 1: it was pretty heavy. So two words today.

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Speaker 2: When I was growing up, we would get together for

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Speaker 2: a weekly family meeting and we would all air our grievances,

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Speaker 2: and what started off as something that was supposed to

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Speaker 2: be positive, it turned into an absolute mosh pit of

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Speaker 2: grievance and hurt feelings, accusations, and it was just disastrous.

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Speaker 2: So when you and I started sitting down as a couple,

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Speaker 2: all I could think about was everything that was coming

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Speaker 2: out of your mouth was accusing me that I wasn't

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Speaker 2: good enough. And it was a really really tricky space

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Speaker 2: for us to sit with for a long time until

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Speaker 2: we realized that we just would change the name and

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Speaker 2: that would disassociate family meetings with what we were doing

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Speaker 2: to your family.

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Speaker 1: You called it a family council, which it does sound

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Speaker 1: a bit serious, doesn't it. So we came up with

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Speaker 1: a much catchier title. What do we call it again?

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Speaker 2: Weekly Couple's Inventory catchy.

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Speaker 1: C I for SUT, we have a weekly w C.

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Speaker 2: I actually think it worked better because it actually took

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Speaker 2: out all the emotion.

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Speaker 1: It was very clinical, and since then we've done them now.

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Speaker 1: Rachel Sharman is a University of Sunshine Coast psychology researcher,

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Speaker 1: and she wrote this article on the Conversation, which we

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Speaker 1: will link to in the show notes. But she highlights

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Speaker 1: that there could be some risks to family meetings. They

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Speaker 1: could be and we've kind of outlined them. She also

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Speaker 1: highlights that there's barely any research. There's no real evidence

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Speaker 1: out there that we can lean on to know if

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Speaker 1: they do or they do not work. The only evidence

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Speaker 1: we've got is the evidence from people like you who

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Speaker 1: grew up in homes where they didn't work particularly well,

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Speaker 1: or people like me who grew up in a home

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Speaker 1: where well, actually we didn't really have them, but you

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Speaker 1: and I put them into practice and we figured out

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Speaker 1: how to make them work.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest risks, if we're talking frankly,

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Speaker 2: is that if parents who are leading meetings do not

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Speaker 2: have the emotional intelligence to keep their own emotions.

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Speaker 1: In check a little bit of restraint.

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Speaker 2: And are able to model appropriate behavior as they work

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Speaker 2: through big emotions that will sometimes be expressed in those meetings,

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Speaker 2: then it's going to be a mash up.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think the other thing to bear in mind

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Speaker 1: here is this family meeting is not meant to be

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Speaker 1: a let's all vent experience. This is meant to be

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Speaker 1: a productive conversation about what we're doing in our family

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Speaker 1: and what we're looking to do moving forward. Is about

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Speaker 1: creating a vision and moving in that direction. So the

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Speaker 1: benefits that Rachel Sharman highlights. Basically, she says that if

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Speaker 1: we can get everyone experiencing the opportunity to be heard,

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Speaker 1: that is, they get to use their own voice. If

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Speaker 1: we can catch up with everyone what everyone's doing and feeling,

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Speaker 1: if we can talk about upcoming events or challenges, and

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Speaker 1: if we can genuinely canvas different opinions on how to

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Speaker 1: move forward in a positive way, then we usually get

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Speaker 1: good outcomes. Everyone asks their opinion, get to speak their

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Speaker 1: mind without interruption or criticism, and making sure that it's

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Speaker 1: developmentally appropriate. Oh and making sure that the kids know

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Speaker 1: our family is not a democracy, like the parents are

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Speaker 1: the pre frontal cortex of the family, and just because

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Speaker 1: you want ice cream for dinner and breakfast and lunch

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Speaker 1: every single day doesn't mean we're going to have a

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Speaker 1: vote on it. I mean we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: talking about reasonable things that need to discussed. Kylie, you

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Speaker 1: and I have been talking about this for a while,

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Speaker 1: and we put lists together of the benefits that we've

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Speaker 1: seen in our home with our six daughters as we've

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Speaker 1: regularly and consistently held family meetings. Let me run through

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Speaker 1: those four things. Number One, kids learn to articulate. For me,

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Speaker 1: one of the most important skills that a young person

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Speaker 1: a child can learn is to to articulate an argument,

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Speaker 1: to stand in front of a group of people, or

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Speaker 1: sit in front of a group of people and make

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Speaker 1: their case. I think schools should have more public speaking,

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Speaker 1: not less. I know people with anxiety don't like that,

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Speaker 1: but the best way to overcome it is exposure to

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Speaker 1: it and practice with it. The ability to stand in

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Speaker 1: front a group of people and say, here's the case

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Speaker 1: I want to make and these are the reasons for

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Speaker 1: it maybe one of the most important schools we can

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Speaker 1: develop in our life. And family meetings are a really soft,

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Speaker 1: safe place usually if we do it right for children

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Speaker 1: to learn that skill.

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Speaker 2: And add on to that is it's important for them

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Speaker 2: to know that their voice matters. And if they can't

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Speaker 2: feel that in their home, when will they ever experience

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Speaker 2: it anywhere else? This is the training ground.

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Speaker 1: And I guess that's the point that you make with

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Speaker 1: your story. You didn't really get to have a voice

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Speaker 1: in your family meetings, so when I said let's do it,

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Speaker 1: you kind of thought, great, now I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: threatened in my marriage as well, which was never the point.

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Speaker 1: And obviously that hasn't really happened, but there's that feeling there.

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Speaker 1: So we've got to be able to do right. For

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Speaker 1: kids to be able to articulate their position is so valuable.

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Speaker 1: Second one, children learn to regulate their emotions in this

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Speaker 1: family meetings because sometimes they hear things that don't sit

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Speaker 1: well with them. Not everything we say in these meetings

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Speaker 1: lands just right, and.

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Speaker 2: I guess the idea and notion we can be comfortable

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Speaker 2: with being uncomfortable. One of the things that we struggle

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Speaker 2: with as a human race, I want to say, is

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Speaker 2: being uncomfortable. We don't like that feeling. We run away

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Speaker 2: from it. So whether it's a big emotion or a

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Speaker 2: difficult person, our natural instinct is to run.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of like that quote from Brenne Brown

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Speaker 1: that we use the other day when we talk about

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Speaker 1: emotion regulation on the podcast just over a week ago.

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Speaker 1: We are first and foremost emotional beings, where rational beings second,

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Speaker 1: which means that every now and again our rationality is

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Speaker 1: tied up and bound and gagged in the boot while

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Speaker 1: emotions are driving that card down the road.

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Speaker 2: And so this is a beautiful, hopefully a safe space

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Speaker 2: for you to work through some big emotions or challenging emotions.

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Speaker 2: They don't have to be big necessarily, just challenging. These

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Speaker 2: emotions don't feel comfortable, we don't sit well with them, and.

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Speaker 1: So that ties in with a third benefit, which is

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Speaker 1: frustration tolerance. Kids learn, again in a fairly low stakes environment,

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Speaker 1: to tolerate things that are a bit uncomfortable. Tolerate that frustration.

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Speaker 1: The fourth and final one social skills. This is an

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Speaker 1: opportunity where children learn to listen, they learn to take turns, wait,

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Speaker 1: understand other people's perspectives. The social skills that come out

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Speaker 1: of family meetings I think are just invaluable, so important.

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Speaker 2: And hopefully there's some good communication being modeled by mum

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Speaker 2: and dad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I work through that process. Otherwise this doesn't work. Now,

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Speaker 1: now here's the interesting thing I mentioned, and Rachel Shalman

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Speaker 1: in her conversation article says, there's pretty much no research

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Speaker 1: out there on this stuff. There is a little bit

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Speaker 1: of research on family meetings, but it usually looks at

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Speaker 1: adult siblings, typically in.

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Speaker 2: Like a looking bag.

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Speaker 1: No, in a palliative care situation, that is, we're going

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Speaker 1: to get the family together because there's going to be

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Speaker 1: a death or there's going to be a divorce, or

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Speaker 1: there's going to be some major challenge that we're facing.

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Speaker 1: And so the.

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Speaker 2: Research high stakes, high emotion.

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Speaker 1: Right right, The research is mixed in terms of the outcomes.

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Speaker 1: Why Well, because a lot of people don't know how

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Speaker 1: to regulate their emotions, deal with frustration, tolerance, have the

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Speaker 1: social skills to listen, take turns, work through it all,

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Speaker 1: and fundamentally articulate their positions in healthy ways all the

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Speaker 1: benefits that we've been describing, if they haven't had practice

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Speaker 1: with it makes family meetings really tough.

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Speaker 2: At the beginning of the podcast, you shared that quote

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Speaker 2: from James Clear and the idea of this five year process,

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Speaker 2: but you also acknowledge that in doing family meetings, it

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Speaker 2: probably doesn't need to take five years for you to

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Speaker 2: see benefits. But I would say that the idea of

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Speaker 2: building strong, lasting family relationships is a long term process.

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Speaker 2: While your family meetings will help you get more organized

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Speaker 2: and be on the same page with each other, it's

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Speaker 2: actually the consistency and the constant check in and accountability

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Speaker 2: that we each hold with one another as we work

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Speaker 2: through those big emotions, hard things, and the changes we

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Speaker 2: want to make for better family life that relationships flourish,

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Speaker 2: but that is a long term thing. And if you

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Speaker 2: look at getting to that place of being older siblings

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Speaker 2: sitting down because there's a big thing that we've got

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Speaker 2: to deal with. We've worked through this as children and

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Speaker 2: hopefully over time we've built beautiful, strong relationships. Trust right

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Speaker 2: with these things as they come.

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Speaker 1: So in the conversation article from Rachel Sharman from the

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Speaker 1: University of Sunshine Coast, she doesn't give us a lot

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Speaker 1: of tips on what to do. She highlights not a

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Speaker 1: lot of research. There are some risks, but it can work.

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Speaker 1: We think we've got a lot of experience in this area,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to give you six tips that can

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Speaker 1: help to make a difference. First things first, talking about

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Speaker 1: what went well. Celebrating success is kind of the way

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Speaker 1: we frame it, but we're not talking about high fives

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Speaker 1: and art of officially inflating how well we're doing. It's

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Speaker 1: just a two minute conversation, Hey, what's working out in

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Speaker 1: our family this week?

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Speaker 2: And that's the key point. While we could talk about

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Speaker 2: and celebrate things that are actually happening in each of

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Speaker 2: our individual lives, this family meeting is about what's working

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Speaker 2: well in our family. Great and The great thing about

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Speaker 2: this is the acknowledgment that everyone has a voice. Even

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Speaker 2: your two year old can tell you what's good about

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Speaker 2: our family.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost a gratitude circle, but we're being a

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Speaker 1: bit more specific. We've really hit mornings well this week,

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Speaker 1: or really really loved the way we've been having good

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Speaker 1: quality conversations around the dinner table at night, or lockdown

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Speaker 1: super Saturday on Saturday morning.

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Speaker 2: All loved that everyone came together and did ten minute

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Speaker 2: tidy every night after dinner.

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Speaker 1: Second thing, what didn't work so well? Critical thing here

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Speaker 1: so that we don't slide into the accusatory stance, is

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Speaker 1: we're talking about on average as a family. Here are

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Speaker 1: the things that we struggled with together.

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Speaker 2: So it's not about individuals.

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Speaker 1: Not a thing pointing exercise, what went well? What didn't

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Speaker 1: go well? Third thing, when we look at the stuff

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Speaker 1: that didn't go well, or maybe when we look at

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Speaker 1: the things that did go well, if we were to

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Speaker 1: do one thing more or better this week to make

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Speaker 1: our family function better, what would it be.

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Speaker 2: And again, having each individual voice in the mix creates

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Speaker 2: a bit of hole. In the end, the outcomes are

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Speaker 2: better because there's greater accountability and we'll buy in. We're

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Speaker 2: all on the same page.

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Speaker 1: It's really really important though, that you consider not just

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Speaker 1: what went wrong, but what went well, because sometimes things

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Speaker 1: are going okay, but you're doing one thing really well.

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Speaker 1: Just do more of that that feels awesome. You're building

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Speaker 1: on your successes rather than constantly try to manage and

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Speaker 1: patch up your weaknesses. So it could go either way.

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Speaker 1: There our last three ideas, let me run through them

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Speaker 1: all together, because they all kind of fit together really neatly.

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Speaker 1: Include food. Kids really like that, and so we as

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Speaker 1: grown ups. I've noticed number five, have it at a

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Speaker 1: regular time, be consistent with it. That's where the kids

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Speaker 1: get in that rhythm and routine. They expect that it

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Speaker 1: will happen, and you can well, the more consistent you are,

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Speaker 1: the better you are at it. And last, but not least,

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Speaker 1: once you've gone through all of that stuff, have a

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Speaker 1: quick look at the calendar, talk about what to expect

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Speaker 1: this week, and you're done. You can do it in

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Speaker 1: what depends on the size of your family, ten maybe

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Speaker 1: fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: So while there's not a lot of research to let

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Speaker 2: us know whether or not these meetings actually have any

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Speaker 2: significant impact in your family, our experience has been that

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Speaker 2: it has totally changed the way our family feels and

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Speaker 2: the way our family functions. So our big tips are

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Speaker 2: what went well, what didn't go well, and what do

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Speaker 2: we want to focus on to make things better? Include food,

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Speaker 2: keep it nice and short, and involve everybody.

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Speaker 1: Okay, our next one's on Sunday. I'm actually kind of

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Speaker 1: looking forward to it now that we've had this conversation.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Thanks for your great work, Justin. If you'd

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Speaker 1: like more information about making your family happy, visit us

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Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au. Sign up for

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Speaker 1: our membership. We'll give you even more information about how

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Speaker 1: to roll out those famis only meetings and make them work.

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Speaker 1: You get a free course as part of the membership.

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Speaker 1: It's worth i don't know, like four or five hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks all about pulling it together, and our first unit

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Speaker 1: in that course is all about the stuff we've just

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Speaker 1: talked about. So much value in a Happy families dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au. Click on the membership's page and get

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Speaker 1: your info there