1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: What if the simple chat by the water cooler could 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: be the key to unlocking your team's full potential. What 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: if those regular catch ups you grudgingly schedule with your 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: direct reports were actually gold mines waiting to be explored. 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: For some of us, one on one meetings are just 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: another box to tick in the endless checklist of managerial duties. 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: But what if I told you that. 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: Revolutionizing that one hour could change everything. In today's episode 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: of How I Work, we're diving deep with Professor Stephen Rogelberg, 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: a global expert, on how to have better meetings and 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: how we can turn routine check ins into opportunities for 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:53,279 Speaker 1: real growth, connection, and insightful leadership. Stephen's not just an 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: academic wizard waxing lyrical about hypotheticals. Oh No, He's in 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: the trenches with us, apply these insights into his own 15 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: work every single day. So let's transform your workplace interactions 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: and discover just how powerful a simple conversation can be. 17 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: My name is doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm an organizational psychologist 18 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: and founder of behavior change consultancy Inventium, And this is 19 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: How I Work, a show about how to help you 20 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: get so much more out of the hours in your day. 21 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: Now onto my chat with Stephen, which starts with me 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: asking him if there was a specific experience he had 23 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: that got him thinking differently about one on one meetings. 24 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 2: I think it was more of a general experience and 25 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: having a one on one meeting with someone that reports 26 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: into me and just seeing how she experienced it, you know, 27 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: like she left their feels so motivated, so connected, and 28 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: so engaged. And the fact that those emotions happened for 29 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: her just through me dedicating this twenty five minutes of 30 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 2: time was amazing. Right to be able to give that 31 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: gift to someone to feel seen, and so that was 32 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: like a critical incident that just stuck with me that 33 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: this is an incredible opportunity. And that's why I was 34 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: so excited to write the book, because it helped shine 35 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: a light on how to do it aligned with science, 36 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 2: so that people would get the types of outcomes that 37 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: they're hoping for. 38 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: I think it's great because I feel like a lot 39 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: of people see one on ones as a necessary evil 40 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: that typically clogs up their diary on Mondays. I feel 41 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: like Monday seems to be a very popular day for 42 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: one on ones. How do you know if something warrants 43 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: a one on one meeting in the first place. 44 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: You shouldn't even have to make that decision. A one 45 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: on one meeting cadence should happen no matter what. One 46 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: on ones are meetings for the direct not for the manager, 47 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: So whether the manager wants it or not is irrelevant. Right. 48 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: You're doing it for the direct So your job is 49 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 2: to help them realize all the things that could be 50 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: talked about in the one on one and then tee 51 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: them up to decide on the types of issues and 52 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: topics where they need support, where are they confronting obstacles. 53 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: What you are doing as a leader is you're providing 54 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: a structure. You're saying, listen, I'm all in for you, right, 55 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: I want you to thrive, and I'm committed to doing 56 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: my part. And one piece of my part is you 57 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: knowing that every week or every other week, we are 58 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: going to have this dedicated time for you. It's not 59 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: about me checking up on all your tasks and monitoring 60 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 2: your work. It's about you share, sharing what you need 61 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: to share, bringing up challenges that you have, talking big picture, 62 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: small picture, long term, short term. So it's not a negotiable, 63 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: it's not something that I do only if I have time. 64 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: It's something I'm committed because I'm committed to employee thriving. 65 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: It's such a mindset shift, is it is? Because I 66 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: feel like often it feels like a two way straight 67 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: as opposed to it's all about the employee as opposed 68 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: to know about the manager's needs. 69 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, it is a gift you're giving 70 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: the employee, but it's a gift you're benefiting from, right 71 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: because these tools, this approach helps your employees to thrive. Right. 72 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: And we know that managers are evaluated based on the 73 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 2: success of their directs. So as your direct strive as 74 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: they are more aligned team performance excel excels and this 75 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: is all a good reflection on you as a manager. 76 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: So it's a activity where the immediate benefit goes to 77 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 2: the direct but it's a mistake to think that the 78 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 2: manager is not directly benefiting from it. That's so true. 79 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: I mean, there is the old adage that you join 80 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: an organization, but you leave a manager. 81 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: Sorry, exactly exactly, And this is an activity where this 82 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: is your opportunity, This is your stage as a leader. 83 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: A one on one conversation is where your values truly 84 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: come to life, and so we can espouse certain values, 85 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: but we do what one on one we're living those values. 86 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: So, as a manager in your own life, you work 87 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: within in a university, how often do you meet with 88 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: your teammates? 89 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: So, you know, one of the things that was different 90 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 2: about this book from my previous one. So the previous 91 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 2: one was a surprising science of meetings, and we had 92 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 2: a ton of science to talk about this one. The 93 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: title of the book is the Art and Science of 94 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: one on one Meetings, because they're truly an art to it. 95 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: And so this book lays out a variety of choices, 96 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: but ultimately the leader has to make choices based on 97 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: who they are, the relationship with their people, the type 98 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: of work they do. So how I meet with my 99 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: people is going to be different than other people's work. 100 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 2: You know, in my line of work, we don't work 101 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: as a team, right Academics research generally tends to be 102 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 2: more individual, project based work that doesn't necessarily interconnect with others. 103 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: So for our type of work, having one on ones 104 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: every other week works completely fine, and it can be 105 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: extremely short, but they just become more predictable check ins. 106 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: You know, where the doctoral student or the employee whichever one, 107 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: they know that they have this time. You know, if 108 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: you look at the research and more traditional occupations, generally 109 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: the weekly cadence or the other every other week cadence 110 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: yielded the most benefits in terms of employee engagement, right, 111 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: because when you have more frequent ones, you're able to 112 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: make the connections, right, You're able to say, Okay, we 113 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: talked about this last how's that going. You build momentum, 114 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: There's so many positive things that happen from it. So 115 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: in general, I recommend managers to do it weekly, but 116 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: depending on the type of work and role, it could 117 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: be every other week like myself. And interestingly, the more 118 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: senior employees, they actually desired more one on ones than 119 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: the junior employees. But what I would suggest is because 120 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 2: senior employees they know how important these are, They know 121 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: that these things can be transformative to careers. Thus they 122 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: know the value of having this dedicated time with their manager. 123 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: So I want to now talk through a typical process 124 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: for a one on one. So I want to start 125 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: with preparation, and I'm curious for you, as the manager, 126 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: what preparation goes into your one on one meetings. 127 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: So it starts with always reviewing your notes, right, because 128 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: so much of the value of these conversations is when 129 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: there are threads. So the one on ones allow you 130 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: to start creating this diary in sense for each employee. 131 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 2: It also starts with mindset. I'm personally very moved by 132 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: research on the Pygmalion effect, and this initially came from education, 133 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: where they found that the teachers attitudes about their students 134 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: really shaped how they behaved towards those students. So if 135 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 2: a teacher thought that the students were lazy, they behaved 136 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 2: in ways that basically made them lazy. The same thing 137 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: happens in one on ones. If you go into your 138 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: one on one thinking that this employee is unchangeable, unmotivated, 139 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: you're actually not going to be a real active listener. 140 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: You're not going to be providing support. We also need 141 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: to make sure we check our mindset around the job 142 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: we have in the one on one, the job we 143 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 2: have to facilitate, to ask good questions, to learn right, 144 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: to get that other party to be willing to share 145 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: and express. Now we need to make sure that we're facilitating, 146 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: we're engaging, we're learning right, we're asking why tell me more? 147 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: And even that is hard because often it's the case 148 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: that when we ask someone, well, how would you handle it? 149 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: When they give an answer, we are quick to replace 150 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: it with our own answer, and that's something that's not helpful. Right. 151 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: So what we want to do is when we hear 152 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: the employee solution, if there's not a big and meaningful 153 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: gap between their ideas and ours, we let it go 154 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: right because that conveys respect and trust, and then the 155 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: employee be more motivated to act. Now, if the gap 156 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: is big and it is meaningful, sure intervene, but otherwise 157 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: pick your battles carefully. Then the closing phase, Boy, that 158 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: is one of the most critical pieces. So the close 159 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: is really about recapping what everyone committed to, getting clarity 160 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: around that, and then ideally trying to end a more 161 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: positive note. Right, even if difficult issues were talked about, 162 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 2: we can try to create some motivational self efficacy building 163 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: types of statements that leave people kind of in a 164 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: better place. 165 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: I want to delve into a few of those things 166 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: that you've just covered back on preparation, What do you 167 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: suggest to your direct reports to get the most out 168 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: of the one on ones. Is there a preparation rituals 169 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: or things that you recommend to them. 170 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: I love that. I definitely spend time on that in 171 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: the book because I think that while the manager really 172 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 2: has the largest role, it takes two to tango, and 173 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: the direct has a responsibility. So I lay out what 174 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: we found in the research or some of the key 175 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: behaviors that directs can do. Let me share a couple. 176 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: So one of them is really reflecting on what you need, 177 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: because you can't get what you need unless you know 178 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 2: what you need. So the direct really has to think, 179 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: stop and think, and they have to decide that this 180 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 2: meeting will be successful if I have this, this and 181 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: this cupboard that takes work. And most directs don't do 182 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: that and they have to. So that's a critical success 183 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: factor that's on them. Then obviously being engaged in directing, 184 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: expressing gratitude, not getting defensive, all those behaviors. They might 185 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: actually have to be more active and rapport building because 186 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: some managers are not adept at it, so maybe they 187 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 2: have to kick that up to build that connection. They 188 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: have to be willing to disclose, right because again, you 189 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: can't get what you want unless you disclose what you want. 190 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: And then the final thing I'll just share is you 191 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: have to be willing to ask for help, but how 192 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: you ask for help matters, and that the research generally 193 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: shows that there's two basic approaches to help seeking, ones 194 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: called autonomous help seeking, the other one's dependent help seeking. 195 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: Dependent help seeking is really where you're just looking someone 196 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: to save you right to solve the problem. Autonomous help 197 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 2: seeking is really about you gathering what you need to 198 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 2: solve your challenge. And then obviously the final piece that 199 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 2: we just don't want to forget is they need to 200 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: follow through on commitments that they make. 201 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: I'm wondering when you say, have a new doctoral student 202 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: that you're supervising and you're setting up the cadence of 203 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: one on one meetings, do you almost have like an 204 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: induction to the one on one so that you're aligned 205 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,479 Speaker 1: in your expectations. What does that look like in your life? 206 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: So, for example, when we're creating our plan of action 207 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 2: and it does need it does need a lightweight agenda 208 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: of sorts, is that I'm going to be involving you 209 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: in the creation of that agenda. Right, your voice is 210 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: going to drive what we talk about. That's a key signal, 211 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: right that this is not about me, and so that 212 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: will be another piece to create that foundation of having 213 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 2: this meaningful discourse and then clearly my baby behaviors throughout, Like, 214 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 2: I'm not going to fall into a status update trap. Right, 215 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: If I want to know exactly what you're doing on 216 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: task X, I'm going to hold my tongue unless it 217 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 2: comes up naturally, because I can always schedule another meeting. 218 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: I can always send you an email saying what's going 219 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: on with project X, Right, So I have that ability. 220 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 2: So this meeting, though, is different. This meeting is about 221 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: you and what you want to talk about, and so 222 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: in general, you know, I think the ultimate goal is 223 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: you keep sending signals that this is a meeting for 224 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: the direct by firmly engaging them in the creation of 225 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: the plan, and then behave in a way consistent with 226 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: that and then set it up as a values consistent 227 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: behavior activity. 228 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: So let's talk about in the one on one now, 229 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: and you're talking about setting up an agenda or setting 230 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: up a plan, what in your own life does that 231 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: agenda typically look like for a one on one. 232 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: There's two approaches that I use that I also talk 233 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: about in the book. So the first approach I'll use 234 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: is a listing approach, where I'll tell my employee, listen, 235 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: I want you to create a list of things that 236 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: you want to talk about. I'll do the same, but 237 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: your list is going to get priority. I'm only going 238 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: to intersperse my items to the extent that they come 239 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: up naturally, and if we have time, I'll bring up 240 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 2: my items. But when you create your list, I want 241 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: you to think big picture, small picture, short term, long term. 242 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: I want you to think team, organization, individual, I want 243 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: you to think everything. I want you to tee up 244 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: a lot of possibilities for you. So another approach that 245 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 2: I've had some people prefer is having a set of 246 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 2: core questions that I ask and so we can negotiate 247 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: that together. So, for example, we can have a core 248 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: question of you know, what are the biggest obstacles that 249 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: you're experiencing, what are areas that you think I might 250 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: be able to help you with, And so we can 251 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: have a set of four or five core questions, and 252 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: then the direct is still clearly driving, you know, the conversation. 253 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: I'm just providing a structure. So I alternate between those 254 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 2: two approaches. The other thing I'll just throw out there, 255 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: which I think is kind of interesting, is that you know, 256 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 2: I want to keep these things fresh. So even if 257 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: something is working after a month or two, I'm going 258 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 2: to change it up, right, I don't want these to 259 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: become stale. So one question that a lot of leaders ask, 260 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 2: and it'd be a question that I often asked, is 261 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: the simple question how are you? How are you right? 262 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: That's pretty much a foundational questions. Sadly, that question doesn't 263 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: work because when you ask someone how are you, it 264 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: generally promotes just automatic responses I'm fine, good, pretty good, great, right. 265 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: You don't get necessarily thoughtful responses. But here's a tweak. 266 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: I will say to someone, So, considering everything you know 267 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: in work out of work on a scale of one 268 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: to ten, with one being horrible, ten being great, how 269 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: are you showing up today? Now I'm going to get 270 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: different responses. I'm going to get scores of five. I'm 271 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 2: going to get six's, I'm going to get sevens. And 272 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: now I have something to work with. Now I can say, 273 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 2: tell me why you're a six, tell me what's keeping 274 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: you from being a ten? Right? So you can see 275 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: that by playing with some of the response options, I'm 276 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: able to get a lot more meaningful conversation with my people. 277 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: So I'm really trying to assess what that person is 278 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 2: willing to do and not. Do you know another example, 279 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: if the person doesn't tend to disclose readily, then I 280 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 2: will look for opportunities to be appropriately vulnerable right so 281 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 2: they can see me do it, and that also creates 282 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 2: some psychological safety. 283 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: What strategies do you have when a one on one 284 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: is going off topic or it's feeling like it's unproductive. 285 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: How do you identify that and then bring it back 286 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: on track. 287 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: I'll say that we will have a plan of action. 288 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 2: But if my direct winds up focusing on just the 289 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 2: first item and they keep going and going and going, 290 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: I'll stop them and say, I know that you brought 291 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: up some other issues. I fear we're not going to 292 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 2: get to that, but I am totally fine with that 293 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 2: if that's what you want. So my job is not 294 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 2: to stop them, is just to remind them of their choice, 295 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: and I'm going to respect their choice because if they 296 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 2: want to talk about one particular thing, that's because they 297 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: want to talk about one particular thing, and that's okay. 298 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: We will be back soon with Stephen talking about the 299 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: perfect way to bring a one on one meeting to 300 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: a close. If you're looking for more tips to improve 301 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 1: the way you work and live. I write a weekly 302 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: newsletter where I share practical and simple to apply tips 303 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: to improve your life. You can sign up for that 304 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: at Amantha dot substack dot com. That's Amantha dot substack 305 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: dot com. How about bringing the meeting to a close 306 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: so I get I'm assuming you wanted to end on 307 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: a note that feels motivating, so they're excited to go 308 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 1: back out into the world and do their thing. How 309 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: do you bring it to an end? 310 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: The close is definitely where you bring things together. You 311 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 2: know you're really deciding. So for me, it's clarifying what 312 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 2: we all decided on. What did I commit to? What 313 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 2: did you commit to? Also, the clothes is where I'll 314 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 2: start to look at my notes to make sure I 315 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 2: got it right, so I might say, hey, so did 316 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 2: I get this right? And by the way, as an aside, 317 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: what we found in the research is the best way 318 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 2: to take notes is actually the old school pen and paper. 319 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: That old school note taking was just like this signal 320 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 2: that you're more engaged and focused on the direct I 321 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 2: thought that was kind of a fun finding. So our 322 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 2: challenge as a manager, even when we've had a difficult conversation. 323 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 2: Is to find some nuggets that allow us to help 324 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: build someone's self esteem and at least our feelings about them. Right, 325 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: So if I say to you, Lis, I know we 326 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: talked about some tough stuff, but I want you to 327 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: know I believe in you. I think you can do this. 328 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: I've seen you do this before. I've seen you have 329 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: this challenge or this challenge and you overcame it. And 330 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 2: I'm there and I'm with you, and so we can 331 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 2: always find something that we can take out of our 332 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: bag of tricks. And I'm not saying insincere, I'm still 333 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 2: being sincere, but we can always find something that allows 334 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 2: the conversation to end with a little less heaviness, a 335 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 2: little bit more optimism, and we want to seek that out. 336 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: How do you evaluate the success or the impact of 337 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: your one on ones? 338 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: Love it? You asked such awesome questions, by the way, 339 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 2: so yes, evaluation really really is important. So after one 340 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 2: on one, the manager can certainly reflect think about the quality. 341 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: But sadly our perceptions are not always accurate. We can 342 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 2: make them a little bit more accurate by changing perspective. 343 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 2: So tell ourselves, okay, let's evaluate it, but let's pretend 344 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 2: we're the direct report doing it. We could focus on specifics, 345 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: so let's think about three specific things that went well, 346 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 2: three specific things that didn't. We can focus on particular behaviors. 347 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: So I created all these behavioral checklists so we could 348 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 2: reflect on those behaviors to see if we did them. 349 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: So that's a self evaluation. But by far the most 350 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 2: important thing to do is to solicit feedback, right input, 351 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: And so we can do this through anonymous surveys where 352 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: periodically we collect some data. I am particularly keen on 353 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: this product that was created by this company called Cairos 354 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: up in Canada, and it's a plug in that plug 355 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 2: isn't like into your outlook and then basically, periodically it 356 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: will survey your employees and create a dashboard of their 357 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: experiences in one on ones so manager can really learn, 358 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: I mean, how fabulous. So evaluation absolutely matters. And then 359 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: once you collect those data, you have to learn, reflect, 360 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 2: try new things, and you need to tell your direct 361 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 2: So for me, I'll tell my folks here's what I 362 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 2: would like to try differently to see if we can 363 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 2: get value. But please know in two months if this 364 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: isn't working, Let's ditch it try something else. So we 365 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: have to have a disposition to change and an honest 366 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: ability to reflect and ditch things that aren't working. 367 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: I want to also ask about, I guess the medium 368 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: that you use for one on ones, Given that's changed 369 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: so much in the last four or so years in 370 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: terms of the options being phone or face to face 371 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: or virtual where you can see the person but they're 372 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: not with you. I'm wondering what has your go to 373 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: been and what does the research say? 374 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 2: So my go to is whatever the direct wants. That's 375 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 2: my go to. So I will ask folks, how would 376 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 2: you like to do this? I have done some research 377 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,959 Speaker 2: on the topic as well, and the most commonly desired 378 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: place to have a one on one is actually the 379 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: manager's office, nearly tied with that as a conference room. 380 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 2: The least desired place was the direct's office. Interest in 381 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 2: taking a walk and meeting at coffee shops tend to 382 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: be more bimodal, where some people loving that idea and 383 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: other people not loving it. I didn't find any spaces 384 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 2: that led to better one on ones. You know, it's 385 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,479 Speaker 2: just where people might feel more comfortable, but ultimately space 386 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: doesn't drive success. You know, it's the utterances and the communication, 387 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 2: the facilitation that fundamentally drives success. So for me, I again, 388 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: I want to keep looking for signals. 389 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm curious for remote first organizations where it's not an 390 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: option to meet in the manager's office or the conference 391 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: or anything like that, you're basically choosing between a phone 392 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: conversation or a virtual meeting. And I completely take your point, 393 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: and I love that question, just asking your direct report 394 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: what would they prefer? But also is there any research 395 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: on which is actually better for connection and communication? 396 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: We do know that visual cues are helpful for deciphering 397 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: emotions right and for a richer communication. So generally what's 398 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: emerged in our data is that being able to see 399 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 2: a face when you're having difficult conversations is the desired option. 400 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 2: And so if you have a remote only workforce, I 401 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 2: definitely think having video on zoom type thing is the best. 402 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: But does I mean every conversation has to be like that? 403 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: There absolutely could be value of just taking a walk 404 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 2: on the telephone because it feels different and I like that, right, 405 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 2: I like these one on ones feeling different at times. 406 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 2: So I would say for me personally, and what I 407 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 2: would advocate for others is just mix it up. 408 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious about your views on how AI tools can 409 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: help meetings versus hinder them. I have personally been using 410 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: Fireflies in the last few months, which just automatically joins 411 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: all my meetings and takes notes and I can refer 412 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: back to it. Nick gives me some interesting statistics. But 413 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: I'm also intrigued by what you shared around pen and 414 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: paper is actually perceived as the best way to take notes. 415 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: So what's been your experience with AI meeting tools? 416 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,479 Speaker 2: So, first, I am a big fan of AI, so 417 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 2: I'm not resisting the technology. I leverage it all the 418 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 2: time and my different activities, so I'm a fan, But 419 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: I actually don't think it has a strong place in 420 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 2: one on ones because one on ones are about connection. They're 421 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,959 Speaker 2: truly about connection. It's one of those few times that 422 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 2: we're dedicating to connection, and so I think that's where 423 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 2: that old school note taking right. It feels more real, 424 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: more meaningful, and I think it helps. It's again a 425 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: signal of engagement. And so while AI could be more efficient, 426 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: it's actually counter to the hope of one on ones, 427 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: which is that deep connection. The one place I would 428 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 2: consider using AI when it comes to one on ones 429 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 2: is over time for each of my directs, I'm basically 430 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: collecting in a sense, a diary of notes. One thing 431 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 2: that AI is awesome with is I could take that 432 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 2: diary of notes, right, So if I've transcribed it into 433 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 2: a shared document, which is what I TIPK we do, 434 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 2: I can feed it into AI and I could say 435 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: what are the themes that you're noticing. I can even 436 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 2: assign dates and say are you noticing changes over time? 437 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 2: AI handles tasks like that really really well, so we 438 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: can do a thematic analysis and that could be really helpful, 439 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 2: you know, especially as I move into performance appraisal season. Right, 440 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: I'll have those types of data, So I see AI 441 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: as more of a back end tool, you know, to 442 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 2: help me make more broader sense of the data. 443 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: Daven, I have absolutely love chatting to you. I mentioned 444 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: before we hit recording that your name came up and 445 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: your research came up in my workplace at Inventium literally 446 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: the day before I got to reach out from your 447 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: people about coming on how I work, So the timing 448 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: was fortuitous. I have loved this chat. I'm going to 449 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: insist that all my team listen to it. Thank you 450 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: so much for putting such great work into the world. 451 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,719 Speaker 1: I truly appreciate it. 452 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate that your questions were fabulous, 453 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 2: and I definitely hope people will check out my website 454 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 2: because I have a ton of resources on there. So 455 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 2: it's just Stepnrogelberg dot com. I'm sure you'll have it 456 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: in your show notes, but definitely there's lots of resources. 457 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 2: I have links for buying the book clearly, but I 458 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 2: do want to tell folks I am donating all my 459 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: royalties to charity, so there's no personal gain here. It's 460 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 2: all going to charity because it's just important for me 461 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 2: to get this content out. And furthermore, I hate asking 462 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 2: people to buy my book, so it's much easier if 463 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 2: I tell them I'm not making money off of it. 464 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 2: So please buy the book. Buy the book if you 465 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: want to learn about one on ones. The money is 466 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: all going to cancer research, so buy the book. If 467 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: you want to help eradicate cancer. 468 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: We'll get better at one on one meetings as well, 469 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: so the book is glad we met. 470 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: I will link to that in the short arts. Thank 471 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: you so much, Steven, Oh, thank you so much for 472 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 2: having me. I really appreciate it. 473 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love to ask 474 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: a favor. Click follow on the podcast app that you're 475 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: listening to this on, and if you're feeling really generous, 476 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: leave a review for the show. Following this podcast and 477 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: leaving reviews helps How I Work find new listeners, and 478 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: your support is one of the things that makes this 479 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: podcast possible. Thank you for sharing part of your day 480 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: with me by listening to How I Work. If you're 481 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: keen for more tips on how to work better, connect 482 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. 483 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded 484 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: on the traditional land of the Warrenery people, part of 485 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: the Cool and Nation. I am so grateful for being 486 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: able to work and live on this beautiful land, and 487 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: I want to pay my respects to Elder's past, present 488 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium with 489 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for this 490 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: episode was Liam Reardon, and thank you to Martin Nimba 491 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: who did the audio mix and makes everything sound better 492 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: than it would have otherwise.