1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Get a. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 2: I'm Laala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, and professional oversharer. 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview a different guest 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 2: about their highs as well as their lows, all in 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: a bid to. 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: Inspire us to fearlessly fail. Hello. 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: Today on the pod, we have mental health advocate Zach Williams. 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: This chat is awesome. 11 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: It is open, it is vulnerable, it's honest, and sitting 12 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: opposite Zach while we were chatting, I could feel like 13 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: every single question I asked, he would let it land, 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: he would process it, and he would give a really 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 2: honest answer. Like everything he says about his own mental 16 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: health journey, about everything, like company, what he's all about, 17 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 2: what he share. He shays very openly about trauma, PTSD, depression, anxiety, 18 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: We talk heads up here, we talk about suicide, and 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 2: he just shares so openly and honestly. Now, Zach's father 20 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 2: is the iconic and legendary late Lordon Williams, and. 21 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: He opens up. 22 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 2: Zach does open up about the trauma of that, and 23 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: he talks about sharing grief or experiencing grief publicly as 24 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: opposed to privately. And he really opens up about how 25 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: he really needed to experience grief privately to process and 26 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: and and I guess to look after his own mental health. 27 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: Is really open about his own mental health journey. He 28 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: talks about alcoholism. He's done loads of volunteer work too, 29 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: which you'll hear me talk about volunteering at San Quentin, 30 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 2: which is a prison. 31 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 3: Here in America. 32 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: So look, I think this chat is for anybody that 33 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: is just on or open to discovering and exploring their 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: own mental health journey. We also talk about his company PIM, 35 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: which stands for Prepare your Mind. Fun fact, it's also 36 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: his middle name, which I learned when we recorded the 37 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: Hot Seat, and it's I've been able to try and 38 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: taste PIM. I've tried their mood shooes. We met at 39 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 2: We actually met at Air One. You guys know how 40 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: much I love Air One. And it's all about He's 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 2: all about creating these products that help people look after 42 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: their mental health but also build a mental health hygiene. 43 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: And that's really cool to It was really cool to unpack. 44 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: That and what that means for Zach so, Zach, thank 45 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: you so so much for jumping on this pod and 46 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: in real life when I say, I know how busy 47 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: you are, and I just want to say, hand on 48 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: my heart, thank you. 49 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: You are an incredible human being. 50 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 4: All right, gang, I hope you get something from this 51 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 4: chat and I sure know what I did and yeah, 52 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 4: mega mega mega love friends. 53 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: Zach Williams, Welcome to the pod. 54 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Lola. 55 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: It was so nice to meet you in Air one, 56 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: tasting your incredible mood choose. 57 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 3: Thanks. Yeah. 58 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 5: Likewise, it's really fun to be able to talk with folks. Yeah, 59 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 5: be there handing out samples. Yeah, it's one of my 60 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 5: favorite parts of the role. And for me, when you're 61 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 5: sitting or standing and talking to customers, a few things 62 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 5: are better than that because they're providing live feedback, telling 63 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 5: you what they like, what they don't like. Yeah, And 64 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 5: you know, for me, it makes my day when I 65 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 5: have the opportunity to do that. 66 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: Now, I'm really excited to talk about PIM because I 67 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: have been lucky enough to trial them myself. But I 68 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: love the way you speak so beautifully as a mental 69 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: health advocate. Are you comfy if we kind of started 70 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 2: not necessarily the start. But I know you've had a 71 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: long journey with mental health. Can you share the beginning 72 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: of that or noticing things because it was young, wasn't 73 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: it You were pretty young? 74 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 4: Yeah? 75 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 5: Well, you know, I had anxiety from a very early 76 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 5: age and bouts of depression. Trauma for me was something 77 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 5: that was hard for me to acknowledge, specifically with early 78 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 5: adolescent events. When I was twelve years old, my cousin 79 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 5: who was a very close friend died by suicide. And 80 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 5: you know, the culture for me, whether it was my 81 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 5: peers or you know, family history and heritage meaning you 82 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 5: know the culture of coming from an Italian American family 83 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 5: and at least some one side of my family and 84 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 5: so forth, was all about not talking about your traumas 85 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 5: and experience. 86 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: It's that sweep it under the rug mentality, right. 87 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:22,559 Speaker 3: Yeah. 88 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 5: The thing is my parents were always very open. Yeah, 89 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 5: and maybe not necessarily talking about openly publicly, but but 90 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 5: in private there was an openness there. The thing was 91 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:43,239 Speaker 5: for me, I correlated strength and personal resilience with tamping 92 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 5: down problems and my experience relating to trauma, and so 93 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 5: it took decades to get to the point where I 94 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 5: was comfortable talking about my experiences and what I dealt 95 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 5: with from a mental health. 96 00:05:58,480 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: Perspective, and. 97 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 5: Ultimately I received a diagnosis around complex post traumatic stress disorder, 98 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 5: generalized anxiety disorder, and depression. But I didn't identify. I 99 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 5: didn't come to identify as a mental health advocate until 100 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 5: my thirties, yeah, you know, when I'm forty now, and 101 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 5: prior to going into the mental health space, for me, 102 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 5: it was always identifying mental health as a crisis situation. 103 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 5: If you're dealing with mental health, it means that you 104 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 5: are either about to go into the facility or dealing 105 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 5: with doctors potentially therapists, psychiatrists, so forth. And I really 106 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 5: didn't have a perspective of it being a day to 107 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 5: day consideration. Hey, how is my mental health doing? What 108 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 5: am I doing to take care of myself? How am 109 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 5: I engaging in an unproductive or productive way to take 110 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 5: care of my mental health? And what are the various 111 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 5: elements that have a positive and or a negative impact on. 112 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: My well being. 113 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: I love the way you so openly speak about how 114 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: you've masked your or self self medicated in the past 115 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: via alcohol, and I think it's not uncommon. 116 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:20,559 Speaker 1: Like we all. 117 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: For me, it was food, like if I was having 118 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: a really rough or emotion or I was the classic 119 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: girl go through a breakup, Better eat the chocolate. 120 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: But it would last for like months on end. 121 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: And so that's when you start realizing, hang on, I'm 122 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: using this thing as opposed to, like you said, checking. 123 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: In and being like okay, well where am I at. 124 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: Can you share a little bit about your relationship with alcohol. 125 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, for me, alcohol was a crutch for many, 126 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 5: many years, starting in my teens teens. Yeah, yeah, a 127 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 5: form of self medication that I used to numb myself. 128 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 5: Ultimately it progressed into alcoholism. I would say from a 129 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 5: early from a very early age, I was using alcohol alcoholically. 130 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: And I think that like social anxiety you've mentioned as 131 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: well with the alcoholics, like alcohol kind of like loosen 132 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: you up a little bit and then you'd be able 133 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: to socialize. And it's hard when you kind of associate, Oh, 134 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: I can do this thing that is scary for me 135 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: to do sober, if I have a few drinks, I 136 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: can handle it. 137 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's not an uncommon situation for me. What it 138 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 5: ended up being was a panacea for dealing with everything. 139 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're having a good day. 140 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 5: Hey, you reward yourself a bad day, you numb yourself, 141 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 5: and when you start to use every excuse as an 142 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 5: excuse to drink, it's a problem. 143 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: Was there like a turning point or a moment fore 144 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: you where you're like, all right, I need a bit 145 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: of help now I need to I'm using this or 146 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 2: like you said, it's as opposed to just being the 147 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,599 Speaker 2: odd celebratory drink here and there, or I've had a 148 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: rough day, I'm going to have a couple of bevies, 149 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: we would say in Australia versus like, hang on, this 150 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: is becoming like you were saying alcoholism. Was there a 151 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: turning point where you were like, no, I actually need 152 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: to get some help here. 153 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: Yes, I would say. Initially what I sought to. 154 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 5: Do was was acknowledge my problems so that others would 155 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 5: whether it was you know, a former partner of mine, 156 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 5: would be able to, you know, for lack of a 157 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 5: better word, give me a break. 158 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 3: Yes, you know. And I started to get sober for 159 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 3: other people. 160 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 5: Okay, But at its core, the hardest part for me 161 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 5: to acknowledge was that I needed to get sober for myself. 162 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 5: I started having health issues was being ultimately became very 163 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 5: emotionally disregulated, mentally disregulated. 164 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 3: And you know, for me, alcohol was such. 165 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 5: A part of my life that was ingrained into the 166 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 5: social fabric, the daily fabric, and was normalized in a 167 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 5: way that you know, my usage patterns was some related 168 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 5: to what I thought was you know, normal usage patterns. 169 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 5: And I wasn't willing to acknowledge the extent to which 170 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 5: I was using alcohol to numb the pain and the 171 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 5: trauma and so forth. And you know, when I actually 172 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 5: started delving in, I was drinking too excess from a 173 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 5: very early age and. 174 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 3: Isolating. That was a big part of it. 175 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 5: And for me, I was like, oh, you know, all 176 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 5: these problems are cropping up in my life, but I 177 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 5: can have better relationships in my life if I cut alcohol, 178 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 5: and then everything will sort itself. 179 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: Help. 180 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 5: What I was acknowledging is a better relationship with myself 181 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 5: that I needed to start developing. And so that took many, 182 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 5: many years. 183 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 3: Yeah wow, to really come to fruition. 184 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: Was that through a combo of things like, I know, 185 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 2: you're so passionate about taking control of your health, you. 186 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 3: Know, through nutrition that hints I am, Yeah, you know, 187 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 3: I wouldn't. 188 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 5: The irony of it is I wouldn't necessarily call myself 189 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 5: health nut or don't worry. 190 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: I am one. 191 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 5: I'm the health in the right but I'm not in 192 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 5: great shape per se and the like. You know, I 193 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 5: ultimately would like to be in great shape. But what 194 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 5: I came to understand was focusing on certain elements, whether 195 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 5: it's nutrition, sleep, things that are really helpful for me, 196 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 5: like meditation. I was able to create a mental foundation 197 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 5: for myself that helped me not only feel stabilized and okay, 198 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 5: but start to understand how to prosper. 199 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: You've talked about mental hygiene before in other episode, and 200 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: I love the way you share this. Can you share 201 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: a little bit about like what mental hygiene means for you? 202 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 3: Certainly? Yeah. 203 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 5: Mental hygiene for me relates to a set of daily 204 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 5: activities relating to nutrition, fitness, mindfulness, meditation, things like community support, 205 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 5: therapy when and we're available, specialist interventions whether it's breath 206 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 5: work or things like intermitute fasting when applicable. When those 207 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 5: are integrated into one's life, they can find a foundation 208 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 5: that will ultimately prevent them from reaching a crisis state. 209 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: Totally. 210 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: I'm a nutritionist my trade, so like for me, the 211 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 2: difference in having mental health hygiene versus not is night 212 00:12:58,600 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: and day. 213 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: Right, and as it all comes together for any individual, 214 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 3: there's certain things that would be more effective or less effective. 215 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: Of course. 216 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you kind of find your groove right, You're like, 217 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: the way you just said, meditation works really wealthy for me, 218 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: daily yoga practice is my non negotiable. And then you 219 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: build this kind of like non negotiable, kind of like checklist, 220 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: and you notice when things slide, You're like, oh, the 221 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 2: cracks my ability to handle and process things that cause stress. 222 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: It decreases and decreases and decreases. And that's why I 223 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: love that you're so passionate about like making mental health 224 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: not only a priority, but like you are such an 225 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: advocate for it. One thing that I had never thought 226 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 2: about until I started researching you, Pus. 227 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: I have to a shout out to the beautiful. 228 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: Sam Wab, who goes, ah, you're gonna love Zach. He 229 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: connected us and he was like he's standing over there, 230 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 2: go say hi, it's gonna let you guys are gonna get. 231 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: On so well he was at airline that day. 232 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. But the thing that I have never heard 233 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 2: discussed before is the difference between private and public grief. 234 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: And obviously your dad is the was the legendary Robin Williams, 235 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: and so is that when you talk about the difference 236 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: between public and private grief. Was it that when the 237 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: world lost a hero in many sense and you lost 238 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: your best friend and your father bet because there was 239 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: such a public loss, were you feeling the different like 240 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: that you were more in that public grief space as 241 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 2: opposed to personal grief. 242 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: Or private grief. Yeah, I mean, I hope I articulated 243 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: that out. 244 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, the circumstance around the grieving was not something I 245 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 5: would worship on anyone there be. When it came to 246 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 5: it being a public event, I was blown away by 247 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 5: the outpouring of. 248 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,479 Speaker 3: Support and sharing. 249 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 5: And there's a part of me that just wanted to be, 250 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 5: you know, a sponge relating to those things and sharing 251 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 5: my experience relative to what that would be on a 252 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 5: public stage in a public forum. And what I didn't 253 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 5: end up doing was taking care of I didn't end 254 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 5: up taking care of myself in a way that I 255 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 5: needed to, And the direct result of that was I 256 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 5: started isolating and increasing my use of alcohol and the 257 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 5: like to manage my feelings. And you know, At that point, 258 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 5: I had already started acknowledging that I had a drinking problem, 259 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 5: but expanding beyond that, I was using it to mask 260 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 5: my grief and my personal experience around. 261 00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: My mental health. 262 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: Do you think like. 263 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 2: That, because that's I've heard you talk about post traumatic 264 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: stress before as well, and that would have been one 265 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: of the. 266 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: Not trigger is the wrong word. But what I'm trying 267 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: to say is, like, how long? 268 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 2: Like so, if you were using alcohol to mask this 269 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 2: like very private grief and personal grief, that would be 270 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 2: all encompassing to process in a very lack of a 271 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: better word, like a healthy way of being. Like, no, 272 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: I need to take this time for me, and I 273 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: need to process and welcome the most uncomfortable and hurtful 274 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: feeling potentially human. 275 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: Would ever go through. 276 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: How long were you in that space of like, no, 277 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to put on a brave face. I'll use 278 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: isolation and alcohol to self soothe so that I can 279 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: get through. 280 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: How long did that go on for You're like, no, 281 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: I need I need to figure this out. 282 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 5: For period of years I'd say two years intensely, And 283 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 5: then I started realizing, Hey, I gotta start rearranging my 284 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 5: lifestyle to be comfortable being sober. Yeah, you know, it 285 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 5: can be very comfortable. Pardon me, it can be very 286 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 5: uncomfortable in early sobriety, challenging your feelings. 287 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: A therapist or psych around that as well. 288 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 3: No, I'm an advocate of twelve step. 289 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course that program is life changing. 290 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 5: I mean for many, it's not a catch all. 291 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 292 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 5: I think in my case, when you're dealing with a 293 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 5: lot of the symptoms that lead you to drink, anxiety, isolation, depression, 294 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 5: things like that, and you're able to work with a 295 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 5: community that can help orient around a step based path, 296 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 5: I think that can be very effective. It's not necessarily 297 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 5: twelve step in every circumstance, right, Yeah, there's other there's 298 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 5: other solutions that have worked for folks. 299 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: That said. 300 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 5: For me, the meaningful connection, the community support, Oh, that 301 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 5: was extremely helpful. 302 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 2: You've mentioned PTSD before when talking about I'm a similar 303 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 2: age to you. I've actually got a birthday next week, 304 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 2: ten thirty eight, But you've mentioned nine to eleven and 305 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: like being in New York and like then looking back 306 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: with retrospect and going, oh, like that really affect like that, 307 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: you know, like there's and as someone that is a 308 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: similar age to you, I still remember how much, like 309 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 2: living on the other side of the world, in a 310 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: little part of Australia, like how much that affected me 311 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 2: walking down the high school my high school like corridor 312 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 2: and feeling a huge shift. And I can only imagine 313 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: if someone like you would have been very young then 314 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 2: to be living in New York. 315 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I was eighteen right where, a week 316 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 5: into my freshman year of college. And so for me, 317 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 5: the thing was the event happened. I didn't know folks 318 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 5: directly who were I mean, I knew folks who were impacted, 319 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 5: but but who didn't ness who weren't injured or killed 320 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 5: from the experience and from the event. And uh so 321 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 5: for me, I was like you, I was thinking, this 322 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 5: is me talking to myself. You don't have a right 323 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 5: to to experience trauma from that event. And you know, 324 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 5: in learning more about what's going on in a on 325 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 5: a psychosocial level, on a on a on a therapeutic 326 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 5: or psychiatric level, what I what I started realizing was 327 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 5: that that was unacknowledged trauma that ultimately led to certain 328 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 5: behavior and patterns and ways of thinking that were negatively 329 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 5: impacting me over time. 330 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 2: Of course, of course, I just think as well, like 331 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: being the similar generation of you, Like I can only 332 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: imagine like somebody, you know, somebody that was even just 333 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: there and like that is And I've interviewed Australian journalists 334 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: and they will they have multiple journalists have said that 335 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: that was the day that as somebody that worked in news, 336 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 2: that changed their world to be reporting that in real time. 337 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 2: So like the thought that, yeah, that that might have 338 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: gone unacknowledged for an eighteen year old boy. Wow, So like, 339 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 2: thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I know that's a 340 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 2: weird one to ask, but when I figured your age, 341 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 2: I was like, ah, it felt visceral for me and 342 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 2: I wasn't even anywhere near it. 343 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, at the time, I think for me, 344 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 5: it was all about just trying to get through each 345 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 5: day and segueing into starting in school, you know, starting 346 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 5: college and New York at the time was a ghost 347 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 5: town for many months, and trying to establish what I 348 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 5: ultimately realized was a new normal. Trying to establish you know, 349 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 5: a productive, healthy regimen. 350 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: In that new normal was not something I was able 351 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 3: to do. 352 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 2: That well, it's yeah, you're a very fascinating human, by 353 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: the way, Like I've really enjoyed like getting to know 354 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 2: you without getting to know you by listening to interviews 355 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 2: and things that you've done. But probably my favorite thing 356 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 2: I've learned about you is your passion about being of 357 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: service to other human beings. And I know that that's 358 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: your whole ethos with all the stuff that you do 359 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: with mental health, but it also pim as well. But 360 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 2: I have to ask, like, is it's true that you 361 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: taught I want to say, financial literacy at San Quentin? 362 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, How can I just ask. 363 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 2: How was that? Because you're the second person I've interviewed 364 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: that's been to San Quentin and as I guess again 365 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: as an Australian here like you, it feel again feels 366 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 2: very different to Australia. So like, how old were you 367 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: when you did that? Number one? 368 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: So this is a true part And how did it 369 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: feel doing that? 370 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 3: Yeah? So I started. 371 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 5: Teaching a financial literacy course a few months after my 372 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 5: father's passing, which was in twenty fourteen, and that went 373 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 5: on for almost two years. 374 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 3: Wow. 375 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 5: And it was something that I would have loved to have 376 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 5: continued doing, But at the time I started realizing I 377 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 5: needed to focus inward somewhat and discovered that mental health 378 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 5: advocacy was something that I wanted to. 379 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 3: Spend more of my time doing. 380 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 5: That said, it was a truly transformational experience for me, 381 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 5: and the prisoners who were developing the course, who launched 382 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 5: the course, who were evolving the course were specifically a 383 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 5: man named he went by wall Street, Sam's Curtis Carroll. 384 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 5: He's now a free man. He had an incredible grasp 385 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 5: on how to evolve the programming and deliver new ways 386 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 5: of engaging folks. And for me it was like, hey, 387 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 5: I played whatever role I played, I really derived healing 388 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 5: and happiness from it. But it became very clear that 389 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 5: there was there was so much opportunity as a prisoner 390 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 5: lad initiative for this program to flourish and grow and 391 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 5: find its way into other prisons and so forth. 392 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: Oh thank you for Cherry. I know that's a really 393 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: weird one to ask. 394 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 5: It by all means, it's something that you know, one 395 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 5: of a lens I have. One of the lenses I 396 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 5: have and thinking about developing coursework and so forth, is 397 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 5: there's every opportunity for people who might not have found 398 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 5: a voice to find their voice and become educators in 399 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 5: their own right and in the case of the course 400 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 5: work at Saint Quentin, that was the material was already there. 401 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, the course had been formed. 402 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 5: And for me, you know, for a portion of time, 403 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 5: I played a role on seeking to help folks and 404 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 5: evolved the curriculum. But really what it came down to 405 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 5: was finding my passion in mental health advocacy, and really 406 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 5: it started with financial literacy and teaching a Sanquin. 407 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 2: Oh, I love I love so can we talk about 408 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 2: PIM because that's how we met and I met your 409 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 2: beautiful wife, Olivia. 410 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: Can you talk to me? 411 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: And I'm a big amino acid adaptogenic junkie. 412 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it all. 413 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 2: I am a bit of a mad scientist at home 414 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: and I'll be kind of like playing with Ushwa Ganda 415 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: or you know, can you share with me how PIM 416 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 2: came to be sure? And yeah, your passion for I 417 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 2: guess creating these combos of like amino acids. And we 418 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 2: were just talking about you've got mag and other products 419 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 2: now and I popped into air one yesterday and oh 420 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 2: my goodness, front and center mate, PIM is shining so good. 421 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 3: Congrats, thank you. 422 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 5: Yeah. So, as I was going through early sobriety, was 423 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 5: finding myself more anxious and depressed. 424 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 3: Than ever. 425 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 5: Through that process, my now wife, Olivia June, who had 426 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 5: a similar journey in that her sister died by suicide 427 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 5: when my wife was ten and spent the better part 428 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 5: of a couple decades learning how to take care of 429 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 5: herself through lifestyle interventions and mental hygiene. She noticed me, 430 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 5: or experienced me over a period of time suffering and 431 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 5: wanted to introduce solutions that I was initially very skeptical 432 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 5: love into my daily regimen. 433 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 434 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 5: So she introduced me to amino acid formulations and some adaptogens, 435 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 5: but primarily aminos and minerals. Amino acids and minerals, and 436 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 5: through that experience she was able to sort out my 437 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 5: anxiety in two days and my depression in two weeks. 438 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: No, And I was. 439 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 5: Skeptical, Yeah, yeah, I didn't know. 440 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 3: This was a thing. 441 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 2: That's the best people to do it with the skeptical. 442 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 2: For I reckon, that's contrition. 443 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, And so the thing was for me, I was 444 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 5: aware of cannabis, yeah, and things like CBD, and and 445 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 5: you know, I have an allergy to cannabinoids, so they 446 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 5: don't work in the same way that they work for 447 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 5: some folks and I also didn't want to use cannabis 448 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 5: products to manage my anxiety. 449 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, and depression. 450 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 5: They also didn't support in managing my anxiety and depression 451 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 5: kind of made the situation worse. 452 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 453 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: I even find I can get more paranoid. 454 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 3: Yeah. 455 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 2: To be honest, I'm like, this is I am not 456 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 2: drinking the kool aid over here. 457 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 458 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 5: And so in being turned on nutritional solutions, I was like, 459 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 5: what is going on here? 460 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 3: And I learned more. 461 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 5: About what was underneath the hood of neurotransmitter health, managing 462 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 5: ones neurotransmitter environment, and how nutrition can support things like 463 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 5: deficiencies and realize that there was a major opportunity to 464 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 5: make nutrition for mental well being a household phenomenon. 465 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: Well, mate, you're nailing it. You're doing so well with it. 466 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: I loved I've tried both flavors of the mood Chreese, 467 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 2: the citrus and the berry. Citrus is my favorite, but 468 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: absolutely love the berry. Can you talk to me about 469 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: why you want to create a chew because in Australia 470 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: that doesn't really which we need to get. We need 471 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 2: to get pimmed to Australia, my friend, and you're working 472 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 2: on it for me it's good, good, good. 473 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: So what made you want to create mood trees? 474 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: Was it that it's delicious as well, and so therefore 475 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 2: it's super easy they're. 476 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 3: Traveling, yeah, great. 477 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 5: Question is primarily a bioavailability consideration. Yeah, so when you're chewing, 478 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 5: you're producing saliva and you're providing an opportunity for your 479 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 5: body to absorb things through the gum lining or. 480 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 3: Through through your mouth. 481 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that like lepisomal. 482 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 5: I mean in our case it was through through absorption 483 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 5: in the mouth. Wow, we don't we don't have a 484 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 5: leposomal product. We've looked at doing like products, but we 485 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 5: through our early testing process discovered that shoes seem to 486 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 5: provide more effectiveness for. 487 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: Probably quicker to get a quicker results. 488 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 5: Yes, and in the case of like Gabba, there's questions 489 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 5: around how it crosses the blood brain barrier. In many 490 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 5: cases it's seen as not crossing the blood brain barrier. 491 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 5: And in a testing process, we did pills everything like 492 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 5: that and it just wasn't nearly as impactful for folks 493 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 5: as when we use choose. So we need to determine 494 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 5: why that's the case, and we want to establish approach 495 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 5: to testing how that occurs. But what became very apparent 496 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 5: is that there was a seed change in people's perception 497 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 5: of how effective our products are where how affect pardon me, 498 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 5: there was a seed change in how in people's perception 499 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 5: of how effective our products were when we shifted from 500 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 5: pill format to choose. 501 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: Well, makes sense. 502 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 2: This is my nutrition nerd brain coming out here. But 503 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 2: like you've got all these sub sublingual like salivary glands 504 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 2: and so it makes total sense that you're like absorbing 505 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 2: at way quicker and it's skipping our whole digestives. It 506 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 2: makes total sense to me and your but pro I 507 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 2: think I read elthenine is one of the things you 508 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 2: guys love. 509 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and we just launched an attention product. 510 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: Oh, sign me up. It's a focus. 511 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 5: It's called an attention chew, and the actives in that 512 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 5: provide support for procrastination abstraction focus. 513 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: So what's are you allowed to say? What's in that? 514 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 3: Or is it not? Yeah, it's out awesome. It's terracine, Yeah, carnatine. 515 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 516 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, we have an adaptogen and wild blueberry extract. Cool, 517 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 5: but we tend to focus on endogenous compounds like amino acids. Yeah, 518 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 5: because it's kind of core to our brand what we 519 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 5: stand for that said so good, yeah yeah, and then touring. 520 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: Too, yeah beautiful, oh beautiful, what a combo? 521 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. 522 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 5: So practitioners have been using these type of nutritional solutions 523 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 5: for things like distraction and focus for a long time totally, 524 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 5: but we wanted to consolidate it into a nutritional product 525 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 5: that can provide support for folks. 526 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 2: I used to be that nerd that had like have 527 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 2: my morning coffee and then have althene next to it 528 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: and necket so that I would have not the jitters, 529 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: but like long term focus. 530 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: So good on you, my friend. I could talk to 531 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: you all day long. 532 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 2: I think you're awesome and I know that you know, 533 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: I know this took a bit of juggling, and you're 534 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 2: a busy human being. I guess my final question for 535 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 2: you is like, what is if we look into a 536 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 2: crystal ball, you know, like five years from now, what 537 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 2: is your Obviously you're a husband, You've got two Bambino's. 538 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 2: I think I saw an interview where you had a 539 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 2: little French bulldog running around it. 540 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 3: We have a French bulldog. 541 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: April's a great I had one called Croissant. 542 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, her name's April Median. 543 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: Oh, I love that. 544 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 2: So you've got You've got so many amazing things going on. 545 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: But two questions. One is like, what's the goals? 546 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: Is it that we get to see pom all over 547 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: the world in Australia? 548 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look, ubiquity for our products would be great. 549 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 3: You know. 550 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 5: The main thing though, is we're educators and advocates. That's 551 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 5: our team, so the founders, yeah, myself and Olivia. What 552 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 5: we want is, whether people use our products or not, 553 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 5: is for folks to really get an understanding of what 554 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 5: they can do nutritionally and or beyond nutritionally from a 555 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 5: mental hygiene perspective to take care of themselves. So really, 556 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 5: what we want to ensure is that education is delivered 557 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 5: in a way where folks really develop a deep understanding 558 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 5: of what they can do to manage their daily activity 559 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 5: to support their mental well being. 560 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 2: I mean that's what we want, right, and empower people 561 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 2: to look after themselves and feel good. And then do 562 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 2: you have and I know I'm stealing this from what 563 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 2: you've already said about like being of like acts of 564 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: service to human beings and humanity is kind of your focus? 565 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 2: Do you have like a mantra or a mort show 566 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 2: that you live by. 567 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 3: Yeah. Plan simple service is my path to happiness. 568 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: Ay, I love it. 569 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I don't necessarily seek to ingrain that in 570 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 5: other folks. I will share it's extremely helpful for me. 571 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 5: But what I hope for listeners is that they can 572 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 5: establish their own personal mantras. And that could be showing 573 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 5: up for family every day. It could be being in 574 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 5: the best possible shape to support others, you know, but 575 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 5: I would hope it would be individually and world positive 576 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 5: of course, and oriented around ideally people being their best selves. 577 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: You're gonna love this. 578 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 2: I'm in acting school and do you know what the 579 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 2: homework was from my teacher. You'd think it'd be go 580 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 2: learn this script, go learn these sides. It was anonymous 581 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 2: actor kindness, come up with an idea for a non 582 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,919 Speaker 2: for profit and have a conversation you've been putting off. 583 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: Amazing, How cool is that? 584 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 2: That was literally our homework? And she's like, yes, you're 585 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: here to be storyteller as an actor. She's like, be 586 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 2: also here to be of service and to be a 587 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 2: good human being. 588 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: I love it, Isn't it awesome? 589 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 5: Can be more aligned with things that I think everyone 590 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 5: should be adapting right. 591 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: Honored to have you on the pod. 592 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 2: In the show notes, I'm gonna have everything about PIM 593 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 2: because Americans, I know that you're stocked all over beautiful 594 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 2: health food stores, but you can also just order online 595 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 2: release correct. Hopefully soon Australians can too. I'm going to 596 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 2: be on you for that one, and then I've popped 597 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 2: all the links to you and everything you do. 598 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: It's been a total honor to have you on the 599 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: pod today. 600 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 5: Friend, It's been such a pleasure. I'm looking forward to 601 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 5: staying in touch and learning so much more around all 602 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 5: the great work you're doing. 603 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: Oh thank you, my friend. 604 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 2: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, 605 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 2: thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation 606 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 2: on Instagram. 607 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. 608 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 2: This potty my word for podcast is available. 609 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: On all streaming platforms. 610 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: I'd love it if you could subscribe, rape and comment, 611 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 2: and of course spread the love.