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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now.

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Speaker 2: But you know, what I do remember about my childhood.

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Speaker 2: What was so important was the connections that I made

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Speaker 2: and the friendships that I developed.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: So we had a conversation with the kids over the

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Speaker 3: weekend and discovered that they have been keeping secrets from

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Speaker 3: us all their lives. We were starting to talk about

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Speaker 3: fun memories that we had and next thing, you know,

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Speaker 3: those memories turned into confessions. What are you giggling about

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Speaker 3: over there? You're just chuckling away to yourself.

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Speaker 2: Well, I got in trouble because I never checked under

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Speaker 2: the covers. So his dad came into the room. He

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Speaker 2: would always check under the covers, but when mom did,

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Speaker 2: she just checked under the pillow.

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Speaker 3: Don't know how this came up, but the kids were

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Speaker 3: basically while we were sharing memories, and they were like,

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Speaker 3: you remember when we would always go to bed and

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Speaker 3: we'd hide a torch.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was back in the day. See, that's how

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Speaker 2: they talked about It was like it was the olden

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Speaker 2: days before we had knowledge.

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Speaker 4: Jeez, because the kids the biggest.

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Speaker 2: Concern was hiding the tour.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so then what they basically said was we were

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Speaker 3: always breathing a big sigh of relief when Mom came

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Speaker 3: in to check on us, because she'd just sort of

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Speaker 3: check under our pillow and make sure that we were

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Speaker 3: going to bed, whereas Dad used to pull the blankets

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Speaker 3: back to make sure there was nothing underneath the covers.

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Speaker 3: And guess what, I always found the torch, I always

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Speaker 3: found the screens. I always found whatever they had smuggled,

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Speaker 3: the contra band that was under the blankets. And they

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Speaker 3: were just stoked that you were.

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Speaker 2: Well they did they think I didn't know, and I'm

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Speaker 2: just a funny.

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Speaker 4: Part you didn't know. Come on. They basically were saying

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Speaker 4: that you're a negligent parent.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, they actually were saying, I was the cool parent.

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Speaker 2: A few people you were listening.

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Speaker 4: I was the controlling one, is it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the funniest one was our other one of our

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Speaker 2: daughters said, I didn't even bother doing that. If I

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Speaker 2: wanted to read, I just sat on the toilet, even

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Speaker 2: if I didn't.

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Speaker 4: Need to go.

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Speaker 3: Hang out in the toilet for forty five minutes reading

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Speaker 3: so I didn't have to go to bed and didn't

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Speaker 3: have to do any chores, not even not even doing anything,

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Speaker 3: just reading.

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Speaker 4: I love that they read. They've always loved reading.

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Speaker 3: This is the podcast for families who know that kids

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Speaker 3: are really hard work, but g they're awesome. I'm Justin

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Speaker 3: and I'm Kylie and with the parents of six daughters.

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Speaker 3: I'm the founder of Happy Families dot com dot you.

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Speaker 3: Every Tuesday, we answer your parenting questions.

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Speaker 4: You can email them to.

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Speaker 3: Us podcasts at happy Families dot com dot au. We

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Speaker 3: can't answer them all, but what we'd like to do

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Speaker 3: is sift through them and find ones that we think

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Speaker 3: are going to be highly relevant to as many people

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Speaker 3: as possible. And I think missus Happy Families that we

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Speaker 3: found one today.

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Speaker 2: Amy and Sean are parents to three young girls, five

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Speaker 2: almost to three year old and a three month old.

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Speaker 4: Awesome. I wonder if they're going to go for six.

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Speaker 2: I'n't got three more to go.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, halfway there.

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Speaker 2: They moved to regional Victoria a little while ago, and

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Speaker 2: although they absolutely love their regional lifestyle, there's very limited

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Speaker 2: opportunities for extracurricular activities.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and Victoria's lockdowns would have only made that worse.

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Speaker 2: So their question is what is the research saying about

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Speaker 2: children and extracurriculum activities. I feel so guilty that they

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Speaker 2: aren't enrolled in something like swimming or Jimburu or whatever.

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Speaker 2: My eldest is in kinder three times per week, my

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Speaker 2: second is in childcare one day per week, and my

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Speaker 2: littlest love is still with me full time.

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Speaker 4: Well she's three months, so that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But other than that, they are with me and don't

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Speaker 2: engage in any activities. Is this going to affect them

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Speaker 2: in any way? Should I be looking to get them

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Speaker 2: involved in one activity each This would mean a significant

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Speaker 2: drive or commitment on a weekly basis. Thoughts and advice

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Speaker 2: would be much appreciated.

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Speaker 3: So I love this question, and what I love is

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Speaker 3: how much Amy and Sean obviously care about their kids,

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Speaker 3: who want to give them the best start.

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Speaker 4: But I've also got a highlight.

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Speaker 3: This is something that I think is really endemic and

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Speaker 3: parenting in Australia at the moment, and I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's healthy. And that is this constant pressure, this constant

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Speaker 3: worry am I doing enough for my kids? And you

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Speaker 3: can hear that there, like we're talking five to three

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Speaker 3: and newborn, and do we need to have them enrolled

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Speaker 3: in stuff? Do we have to be doing heaps of

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Speaker 3: stuff all over the place or anything at all? And

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Speaker 3: so it's an important question that we dive in to.

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Speaker 2: I've got lots to say about this one.

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Speaker 3: Well why don't you go first, because so have I.

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Speaker 2: I think, just like you said justin there's this desire

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Speaker 2: to give our children everything that we missed out on.

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Speaker 2: So I grew up in a home where we didn't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of financial security, and I didn't get

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Speaker 2: to do a lot of activities.

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Speaker 3: Do you do any like you didn't learn musical instrument,

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Speaker 3: you didn't have swimming lessons.

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Speaker 2: I played netball for a short period of time, right,

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Speaker 2: But outside of that, I don't remember doing anything else.

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Speaker 3: So basically, you made it to adulthood as a fully functioning, capable, talented,

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Speaker 3: remarkable human and never did any extracurricular activities at all. No, Okay,

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Speaker 3: So I think that kind of answers the question right there.

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Speaker 2: But I watched. I watched as I got older, and

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Speaker 2: obviously there was less financial pressures on my parents that

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Speaker 2: my younger sister's got to do things that I never did. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and you had a variety of opportunities available to.

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Speaker 4: You, A plethora, you might even say.

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Speaker 2: Yes, a plethora, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I mean I didn't actually take advantage of them.

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Speaker 3: My parents paid for piano lessons and they literally had

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Speaker 3: to drag me to my piano teacher's door, and I

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Speaker 3: refused to play.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious, though, when you were put into all of

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Speaker 2: these extracurricular activities. Were they things that you'd asked to

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Speaker 2: do or did mum decide for you?

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Speaker 4: Boom, That's exactly it.

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Speaker 3: So when I was a kid, I played soccer and cricket,

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Speaker 3: but when I got older and was a teenager, I

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Speaker 3: just wanted to surf, and they had me going to

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Speaker 3: swimming lessons and they had me doing music and whatever else.

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Speaker 2: Did you want to swim? I mean you were really

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Speaker 2: good at it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was very very good at swimming, but

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Speaker 3: I hated it. I just want to be surfing with

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Speaker 3: my mates. I wasn't interested in it. I had no

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Speaker 3: discipline or anything like that. And so that's getting a

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Speaker 3: little bit beyond our conversation because that's talking about teenagers

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Speaker 3: who are being resistant rebellious. But I guess the main

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Speaker 3: thing is you turned out wonderfully in spite of the

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Speaker 3: fact that you didn't have loads of extracurricul active in fact,

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Speaker 3: any extracurricular activities in your life other than your church involvement,

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Speaker 3: which was free.

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Speaker 4: That was pretty much all you did.

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Speaker 2: But you know what I do remember about my childhood

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Speaker 2: that I think is just perfect for Amy and Sean.

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Speaker 2: What was so important was the connections that I made

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Speaker 2: and the friendships that I developed because every afternoon after

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Speaker 2: school I would hang out with my friends, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: we would play in my cubby house, or would play

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Speaker 2: in their backyard on their trampoline or their swing set,

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Speaker 2: and we just played. And I think that as parents,

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Speaker 2: we honestly do not put enough emphasis on our children

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Speaker 2: just being able to free range and play and explore

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Speaker 2: their environment.

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Speaker 3: So there's a handful of questions that need to be

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Speaker 3: answered here in responding to Amy and Sean. I think

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Speaker 3: the first one is when do we start?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So my answer to that is delay, delay, delay.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes and yes and yes, except I'm also I'm

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Speaker 3: going to put this out there if you've got the

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Speaker 3: and I guess the second question is how many do

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Speaker 3: you do once you get started? I think that if

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Speaker 3: you've got the time resources and you've got the financial

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Speaker 3: resource corses that things. I mean, we live in Australia.

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Speaker 3: I think swimming lessons from the earliest age possible, that's

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Speaker 3: an extracurricular activity. But I think that it's worth it,

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Speaker 3: and we've always done that in our home. We've really

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Speaker 3: emphasized that and I think that that has been a

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Speaker 3: really important thing to do.

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Speaker 2: I probably don't see it as an extracurricular because it

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Speaker 2: as actually something that's almost a mandate in our house.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so you see that as an essential rather than

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Speaker 3: let's go and do swimming lessons as an extracurriculation.

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Speaker 2: So as a result, our kids from the time they

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Speaker 2: were six months old, I was in the pool with

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Speaker 2: them and we were doing formalized lessons.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, outside of swimming lessons, though, we need to talk

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Speaker 3: about when we start, because, like you said, that's kind

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Speaker 3: of just a compulsory activity that everyone does so that

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Speaker 3: they're safe. So we're going to come back after the

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Speaker 3: break and here's what we're going to answer for your

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Speaker 3: Amy and Sewan.

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Speaker 4: We're going to say how.

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Speaker 3: Ol the kids should be when they start extracurricular activities

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Speaker 3: and why what little research we have on this topic

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Speaker 3: and what it can tell us how many activities the

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Speaker 3: kids should be doing?

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Speaker 4: How do we choose the activities?

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Speaker 3: Which kind of taps in with what you were saying

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Speaker 3: before about how I hated swimming and everything else I

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Speaker 3: was being asked to do. What do you do when

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Speaker 3: you've got lots of kids who all want to do

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Speaker 3: different things and you're stretched and what do children really

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Speaker 3: truly need?

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Speaker 4: Right after break?

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 5: Are Screens Creating Tension at home? Tweens, teens? And Screens?

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Speaker 5: Is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe super

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Speaker 5: screen solutions. Bye today at happyfamilies dot com, dot au

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Speaker 5: slash shop.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, And today we're

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Speaker 2: answering Amy and Sean's dilemma on when do we start extracurriculous?

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Speaker 2: How many should we do? And is my child missing

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Speaker 2: out if they don't get to do them?

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Speaker 4: Okay? Question one? When do we start?

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Speaker 3: Does a five year old and a three year old,

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Speaker 3: let alone the newborn need to be doing extracurricular activities? Missus,

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Speaker 3: Happy Families, No, No, except for.

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Speaker 4: Swimming in our home.

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Speaker 3: Except for swimming that's mandatory, everyone swims from the earliest

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Speaker 3: possible age.

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Speaker 4: But other than that note, As.

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Speaker 2: A mum of multiple children, over the years, I've realized

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Speaker 2: that the longer I can delay all of those structured activities,

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Speaker 2: the happier my child is.

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Speaker 3: Explain that I've got some feelings about it as well,

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Speaker 3: But you explain why you would say the kids are

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Speaker 3: happier if they're doing less structured activity when they go to.

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Speaker 2: School in the morning. Generally speaking, for most of us,

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Speaker 2: getting up in the morning and getting our kids to

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Speaker 2: school is a rushed process.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't need to be, but yes, and then they.

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Speaker 2: Go to school and they never actually ever get to

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Speaker 2: finish anything because they hurried through the program at school.

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Speaker 2: I'm halfway through my drawing, but no, no, no, We've

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Speaker 2: only got forty minutes to do this, and now we've

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Speaker 2: got to move on to the next activity. So our

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Speaker 2: children are constantly pushed through their day. And then they

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Speaker 2: get home and most of the time, our kids just

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Speaker 2: want to be kids. They just want to live their

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Speaker 2: life the way they want to live it, whether it

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Speaker 2: be building with their lego or climbing a tree. Out

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Speaker 2: in the backyard or hanging out with their friends. But no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: We've got to go and do this, and we race

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Speaker 2: them out the door again, and then were racing the

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Speaker 2: door so we can have dinner and have bus and

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Speaker 2: then race to bed. Their day is so full and

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Speaker 2: we don't give them time to just be And so

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Speaker 2: over the years I've looked at the things that we've

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Speaker 2: tried to do with our children, I've just noticed that

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Speaker 2: the more time I can just allow them the autonomy

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Speaker 2: to make choice around what they do with their afternoons,

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Speaker 2: the happier everybody.

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Speaker 3: Is, as so long as they're not staring at screens,

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Speaker 3: because they're totally such a waste of an afternoon. When

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Speaker 3: we look at child development, what we know is that

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Speaker 3: kids are much better off free ranging. They're better off

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Speaker 3: playing in a backyard, playing with lego, doing open ended activities,

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Speaker 3: hanging out with a friend in the park. They're much

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Speaker 3: better off doing that kind of stuff than being involved

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Speaker 3: in structured activities from a young age. It's true that

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Speaker 3: they can develop skills and they can get really good

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Speaker 3: at stuff really young, but they don't need to at

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Speaker 3: that age. And the research shows that the ones who

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Speaker 3: get ahead early, don't necessarily fall in love with what

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Speaker 3: they're doing, and they don't necessarily end up any better

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Speaker 3: off in the long run. In fact, sometimes they end

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Speaker 3: up worse off. So my two cents worth, don't get

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Speaker 3: your kids involved in any kind of structured activities outside

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Speaker 3: of swimming, lessons or maybe if we really need the

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Speaker 3: time and space yourself, put them in one little thing

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Speaker 3: to keep them going and till at least the age

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Speaker 3: of eight, maybe even ten. And also watch out for

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Speaker 3: competitive environments. In my book Nine Ways to a Resilient Child,

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Speaker 3: I spent considerable time explaining why our kids don't need

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Speaker 3: to be involved in competition and why it's bad for

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Speaker 3: their resilience while they're children. And there's a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of evidence that I cite as to why kids shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be competing, especially below the age of a round about ten, twelve,

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Speaker 3: maybe even as much as fourteen. Competition's bad for kids,

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Speaker 3: so extracurricular you don't need to worry about it in

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Speaker 3: those early years, like I said, except for swimming.

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Speaker 2: Start spend time developing relationships with neighbors, with school friends, build.

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Speaker 4: Up the village.

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Speaker 3: That's your favorite thing, right, It totally is okay. The

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Speaker 3: second question that we need to answer is how many

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Speaker 3: extracurricular activities do we do?

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Speaker 2: You know, I thought we had this a really great

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Speaker 2: system when we had our three eldest children and still

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Speaker 2: had our three little babies. I was like, okay, if

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Speaker 2: everybody just does two because one of them swimming, yep.

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Speaker 2: So I had all of the always in swimming and

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Speaker 2: they were allowed to do one other activity. All of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, I've got six children doing two things. Let's

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Speaker 2: do the math twelve activities, and my days were just

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Speaker 2: I was run off my feet trying to get them

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Speaker 2: from A to B.

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Speaker 3: And then we'd also have the thing where we'd be

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Speaker 3: calling people and be like, so can we book in

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Speaker 3: this child at this time and have this child also

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Speaker 3: at that time and that child at this time so

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Speaker 3: that we could. And the kids had to do exactly

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Speaker 3: the same activities as their siblings because there was just

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Speaker 3: no way of doing it all otherwise.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I couldn't possibly be in four places at once,

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Speaker 2: let alone six.

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Speaker 4: And then they would winge and wine. They'd but I

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Speaker 4: don't want to do that.

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Speaker 2: You're all going to play netball this season.

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Speaker 3: I don't like net bull well, your sister does, and

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Speaker 3: she's playing it, so you're playing it as well. So

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Speaker 3: how many activities do you do? I think that the

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Speaker 3: correct answer for this one is it depends on how

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Speaker 3: much dosh you've got, and it depends on how much

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Speaker 3: time you've got, and I.

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Speaker 2: Think it depends on your child you're going to have.

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Speaker 2: You know, in any given family, you're going to have

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Speaker 2: different personalities and different likes and interests and.

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Speaker 4: Different capacity for expending energy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you're going to have one child who

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Speaker 2: might want to be doing four different things and they're

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Speaker 2: like running with it and absolutely loving it and thriving,

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Speaker 2: and yet another child, one activity is more than they

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Speaker 2: can cope with.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So consider your time, consider your dollars, and consider

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Speaker 3: a child and their capacity. The next question that I

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Speaker 3: think we need to help Amy and Sean with around

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Speaker 3: this is how do you choose what the kids are

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Speaker 3: going to do once they're eight to ten years old

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Speaker 3: and they're big enough for extracurricular activities other than swimming.

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Speaker 2: Well, I love this answer because we get to give

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Speaker 2: our children an opportunity to choose.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeap, So we've tried getting the kids to do

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Speaker 3: what we want them to do because it's what we do.

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Speaker 3: The best example of that is cycling. I love cycling.

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Speaker 3: Everyone knows that I love to ride my pushbike. And

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Speaker 3: our kids was like, yeah, I want to ride with you, dad, that's.

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Speaker 4: Going to be awesome.

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Speaker 3: And so she was really good at it, well she

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Speaker 3: was for three weeks. We went out and bought her

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Speaker 3: a kid's bike, but it was kids.

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Speaker 2: She had her own crash.

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Speaker 3: She had the likera, the shoes, the shoes, the cleats,

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Speaker 3: the helmet. And when I say we had to buy

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Speaker 3: her a bike, it was a special bike that is

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Speaker 3: for the velodrome, so it's fixed gear, no breaks, all

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Speaker 3: that sort of stuff, and.

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Speaker 2: She couldn't use it anywhere else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can only ride that bike on the velodrome.

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Speaker 3: And it just wasn't actually the best idea because we

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Speaker 3: spent money that we didn't have.

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Speaker 4: We were poor, poor, poor students.

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Speaker 3: We spent about one thousand bucks setting her up, and

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Speaker 3: within three or four weeks she had decided this is

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Speaker 3: not for me. I don't like it. I wish we

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Speaker 3: hadn't done this. I don't want to do it anymore.

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Speaker 4: And I tried to.

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Speaker 3: Force her to compete as a what ten or twelve

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Speaker 3: year old for another couple of weeks and it was

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Speaker 3: just awful. So the kids need to choose for themselves.

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Speaker 3: Just because you were a football star or a netball

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Speaker 3: star doesn't mean that they're going to be Let them

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Speaker 3: choose for themselves.

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Speaker 2: I know that as our children have grown and they've

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Speaker 2: started to make decisions and they've you know, I want

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Speaker 2: to do this, and then next term it's like, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to do that anymore. I want to do this.

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Speaker 2: And it used to frustrate me a lot because I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 2: on a sec I've just had to buy you this

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Speaker 2: uniform and now you're saying you don't want to do this,

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Speaker 2: and now you're going to play this over here. And

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Speaker 2: you would say, just let them have experiences. And we've

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Speaker 2: been fortunate enough that it hasn't hasn't had a huge

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Speaker 2: impact on us for them to be able to do that.

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Speaker 2: And as I've changed my mindset and not got frustrated

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Speaker 2: with the fact that they haven't stuck to something but

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Speaker 2: acknowledge that they're actually just exploring their skill sets and

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Speaker 2: what feels good to them. What I've loved watching is

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Speaker 2: seeing them evolve.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is what the research shows, don't get

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Speaker 3: them into anything too early. Once they get to about

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Speaker 3: eight or ten, let them start to sample things and

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Speaker 3: do a bit of this and a bit of that.

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Speaker 3: When they get to about twelve or fourteen, that's when

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Speaker 3: you start to say, well, how are you enjoying these things?

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Speaker 3: And what else can you try. So we've got daughters

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Speaker 3: now who have tried multiple musical instruments, and by doing that,

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Speaker 3: they've discovered what they really love. And now that they're

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Speaker 3: chosen what they really love, we never tell them to

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Speaker 3: practice because they know what they love and they just

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Speaker 3: go and do it because they love it. And they've

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Speaker 3: tried the other things and they don't love those, but

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Speaker 3: they do love this and they do it. It's the

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Speaker 3: same with their sport. It's the same with whatever activities

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Speaker 3: they're doing. As they've had the opportunities to choose once

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Speaker 3: they're old enough, and as they've had a broad sampling

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Speaker 3: rather than early specialization, they're actually leaps and bounds ahead.

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Speaker 3: Not that it's about competition, because it's not, but they

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Speaker 3: just they thrive with it because they love it.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're driven themselves. They've got that internal motivation exactly.

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Speaker 2: That's right, one of our daughters. She tried an instrument

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Speaker 2: at thirteen, played it for a year, hated her teacher.

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Speaker 2: Her teacher just scared the living daylights at her and

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Speaker 2: just squashed any desire she had to play. She's come back,

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Speaker 2: what seven years later, and she is back at lessons.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's like a grown up now.

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Speaker 3: But she's paying for weekly lessons so that she can

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Speaker 3: play that instrument and she's loving it.

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Speaker 2: And I just love that. I love that we gave

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Speaker 2: her exposure and at that point in time it just

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Speaker 2: didn't work for her, but she's gone back to it

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Speaker 2: because it's something that really brings her lots of joy.

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Speaker 4: Okay, we need to wrap this up.

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Speaker 3: So the summary is your kids definitely need to learn

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Speaker 3: to swim if you're in an area where swimming is important.

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Speaker 3: Other than that, though, they don't need extracurricular activities until

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Speaker 3: they're at least eight.

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Speaker 4: Try to keep them non competitive.

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Speaker 3: Use your wisdom in terms of how much money you

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Speaker 3: spend and how much time you allocate. What they really

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Speaker 3: need more than anything is time and free play and

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Speaker 3: unstructured play and outside time and friends and a broad

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Speaker 3: range of experiences. Once they're ready to get stuck into

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Speaker 3: extracurricular activities so that they can work out what they

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Speaker 3: really love and get stuck into that. From a round

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Speaker 3: about the age of I don't know, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, and.

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Speaker 2: In relation to those broad experiences, I don't think they

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Speaker 2: have to come through structured, paid activities. Take your kids

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Speaker 2: for bike rides as a family. Do they like extending themselves?

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Speaker 2: Do they like going uphills? Go rock climbing, go fountain bike?

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Speaker 2: The more opportunities we provide for our children in a

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Speaker 2: supported environment, the more likely they are going to find

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Speaker 2: what they love.

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Speaker 3: Hope you enjoyed that, Amy and Sean, and that your

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Speaker 3: question has been answered. If it hasn't, boy, oh boy,

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Speaker 3: it was fun conversation anyway. If you have questions for us,

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Speaker 3: every Tuesday, we do our best to answer your questions.

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Speaker 3: Podcasts at happy families dot com dot you. The Happy

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Speaker 3: Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhland from Bridge Media.

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00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,199
Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer, and if you'd like

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Speaker 3: more info about how to make your family happy er,

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Speaker 3: you can find it at happy families dot com dot

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Speaker 3: a u