1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,239 Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It is Tuesday, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: the seventh of June. We are coming to you live 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: from our new office. Sam and I are back in 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: the same room, so it's very exciting. We won't be 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: speaking over each other on purpose. And for today's episode, 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: I'm speaking to Tom Crowley, our journal about energy prices. 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: It's something that you might have noticed is in the 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: news a lot, but might not make a whole lot 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: of sense. It certainly didn't to me before I spoke 10 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: to Tom, so that is coming up later in this episode. 11 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: But first Sam, take us through the stories. 12 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: Today, Zara. Energy prices might be high, doesn't mean I 13 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 2: have any less of it. I am pumped to be 14 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: in this new office. Welcome to all our listeners. You're 15 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 2: in this new office with us. Getting to the news now. 16 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: The Reserve Bank is expected to raise the cash rate 17 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: again today, second month in a row, after lifting the 18 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: official interest rate from point one to point two five 19 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 2: percent last month. The rate is tipped to rise by 20 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: at least another point two five percent, but there's a 21 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: chance of a higher increase as inflation and cost of 22 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: living pressures continued to grow. 23 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: New data from the South Australian Ambulance Service has found 24 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: that ambulances were ramped for three thousand, four hundred and 25 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: twelve minutes during May, which is double February's figure. Ramping 26 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: is when a patient is delayed in being transferred from 27 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: an ambulance to a hospital due to a lack of space. 28 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: Ambulance response times were also found to be the worst 29 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: on record in the past twelve months. 30 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: The World Health Organization has said that there have been 31 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: seven hundred and eighty cases of monkeypox outside of Africa 32 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: in the past three weeks. That's triple the cases reported 33 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: last week. The UK has reported the most cases, followed 34 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 2: by Spain and Portugal. 35 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: Today's good news is a goody. Australian Minji Lee won 36 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: the US Women's Open on Monday, her second golf major championship. 37 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: Lee is the third Australian to win the tournament, after 38 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: Jan Stevenson in nineteen eighty one and Carrie web in 39 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: two thousand and two thousand and one. She has collected 40 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: two point five million dollars for her victory, the largest 41 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: in women's golf history. For Today's deep dive, I am 42 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: joined by TDA journalist Tom Crowley and Tom what are 43 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: we talking about today. 44 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 3: We're talking about gas Zara. It's been a rather dramatic 45 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: week in the Australian gas market and we're going to 46 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 3: have a look at the problem that's been unfolding and 47 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 3: what we might be able to do about it. 48 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: Okay, So for people that aren't across what's happening, because 49 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: it can seem like this stuff kind of exists at 50 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: a policy level and takes a bit of time to 51 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: trickle down to the everyday person, can you just explain 52 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: what the problem is in very simple terms. 53 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 3: I can so gas, which we use in many houses 54 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: at least for stoves and for hot water, and which 55 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: a lot of businesses use for a range of different purposes, 56 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 3: is quite expensive at the moment, particularly in Victoria. So 57 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 3: this is kind of like the eye catching headline numbers. 58 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 3: So as people who pay their own gas bills will 59 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: be familiar with the price of gas for sort of 60 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,839 Speaker 3: a normal household usage, you say, like a gigajewel, which 61 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: is about what a household would you use in two weeks. 62 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 3: That's normally about ten dollars. Last Tuesday in Victoria that 63 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 3: went up to eight hundred dollars, which is obviously a 64 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 3: fairly significant jump. Now that didn't actually end up kind 65 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: of materializing. That's the price that they call it the 66 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 3: shadow price. That's what would have happened if the Australian 67 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: Energy Regulator, the government sort of regulator of the energy market, 68 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 3: hadn't stepped in and capped it at forty dollars. So 69 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 3: that's much less dramatic than eight hundred, but it's still 70 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 3: quite large. It's four times higher than it normally is 71 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: particularly expensive, especially for businesses who use a lot of gas. 72 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 3: For most sort of individuals using heaters in their homes, 73 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: it probably won't have sort of flowed through to you 74 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: quite so immediately. I guess, like you say, Zara, that 75 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 3: there is a little bit of a delay in the 76 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 3: way these things filled through. Most people are on fixed 77 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: contracts when it comes to their gas bills, so you 78 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: wouldn't actually have experienced this spike unless you were on 79 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: a variable contract in the last week or so. But 80 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 3: it's still, you know, pretty significant, and I think what 81 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 3: is maybe the most interesting thing about this problem is 82 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 3: that it's a bit a sign of things to come. 83 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: We know that in general power prices are expected to 84 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: increase over the coming months, and we think for a 85 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: number of reasons that we're going to start getting more 86 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 3: problems like this. 87 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so talk me through what it is that is 88 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: actually causing prices to spike. Because we've heard the government 89 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: say a fair bit about it. I mean, we've had 90 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: an election, so there's been a changing government. What is 91 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: a the actual origin of this problem and be what 92 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: can the government actually do to kind of stifle these 93 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: rising prices. 94 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, so let me start with the cause, because there 95 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 3: are a few of them. Firstly, there's a global problem, right, 96 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: and the global problem comes back to us. So many 97 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 3: global problems at the moment do to the situation in 98 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 3: Russia and Ukraine. Russia is a significant provider of gas 99 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 3: to a lot of parts of the world, and in 100 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 3: particular to Europe, and so sanctions where you know, European 101 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 3: kind of allies of Ukraine are trying to buy less 102 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 3: Russian gas. That's meant that they're trying to buy that 103 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 3: gas elsewhere, including from Australia, which sports from Queensland in 104 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 3: particular a large amount of gas. And it means basically 105 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 3: around the world that the and gas has become a 106 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 3: lot more valuable, and so that's pushing the price up, 107 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: and it's also meaning that you know, Australian exports, they're 108 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 3: getting a lot of money for selling their gas overseas, 109 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: and so that's sort of you know, Australia has historically 110 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 3: had a lot of gas and that's one of the 111 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 3: reasons why Australia tends to export gas to the rest 112 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 3: of the world. So that's creating some problems both with 113 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 3: price and supply at home. Adding to that fact the 114 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 3: fact that we're actually starting to kind of run out 115 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 3: of our local reserves of gas here in Australia, particularly 116 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 3: in Victoria. Victoria's estate that's always had a lot of 117 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: gas reserves. But despite kind of warnings that we're starting 118 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 3: to run low on that over the last kind of decades, 119 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: very little has been done to either shift our reliance 120 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 3: off gas or to kind of change you know, the 121 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: amount that we exported. So that's another part of the problem. 122 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: Then you add into the problem that we're actually asking 123 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: gas to do a lot in our energy market at 124 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: the moment I mentioned before. We use it for our 125 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 3: stoves and we use it for hot water, but gas 126 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 3: is also a backup source for all kinds of electricity, 127 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 3: even you know, kind of switching lights on. It gets 128 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: used in the national electricity market as a backup when 129 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: the other sources of electricity don't work, for example, coal 130 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 3: and coal's been having a very bad year, sort of 131 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: aging ailing coal infrastructure that's been offline for several months 132 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 3: of this year has basically led to kind of a 133 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 3: situation where I think it's about a quarter of coal 134 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 3: plants that have been offline pretty much all year. That 135 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 3: means we're needing a lot more gas, so they're sort 136 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 3: of a whole bunch of problems. But then why did 137 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 3: it all explode last week? Well, anyone who lives in 138 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: the southeast of Australia will know that it was quite 139 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: cold last week, particularly cold where I live in Melbourne, 140 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 3: and then that led to a whole bunch of extra 141 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 3: demand for heating, including gas heating, and that just sort of, 142 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 3: I guess, sort of pushed over the edge into this 143 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: little mini unfolding crisis in particularly Victoria, but all across 144 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 3: the East Coast. 145 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, I'm sitting in Sydney and I'm shivering, 146 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: which is not a usual experience here, and certainly we're 147 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: at the start of winter, so I can't see that 148 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: easing up at all. What is the response to this? 149 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: What do you do to stop these rising prices if 150 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: you're the government. 151 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 3: So the good news is sort of described a little 152 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 3: bit as a perfect storm last week. That's not good 153 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 3: news obviously, but it does seem to be passing, and 154 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 3: the situation at least the energy market operator says this 155 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 3: sort of seems to be easy, at least this particular spike. 156 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: I mentioned earlier that the regulator can cap the prices. 157 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: The other thing that it can do is kind of 158 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 3: take extra measures to make sure that all of the 159 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 3: supply that can possibly be used in the national electricity 160 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 3: market of gas, all of it is being used. And 161 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,239 Speaker 3: so there's sort of some provision for the energy market 162 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: operator to say that some of the gas that might 163 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: otherwise go to export gets pumped in. Basically, it comes 164 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: through a big I was talking to some experts about 165 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 3: this this week and they were explaining to me in 166 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: great detail how all these pipes work. There's basically a 167 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: pipe that takes the gas from Queensland to the rest 168 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 3: of the energy market, and the operator can make sure 169 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: that as much gas is going through that pipeline as possible. 170 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: That's been done. Once that's been done, there's kind of 171 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 3: not much else. So there's sort of been calls for 172 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 3: the government to use some additional special powers. The term 173 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 3: bol government gave them in twenty seventeen was essentially kind 174 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 3: of demand that gas stopped being exported. That's oversimplifying it, 175 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: but that's roughly what it does. But the government's pointed 176 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 3: out that, I mean, a there's sort of some sort 177 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: of risk in canceling contracts like that for gas that's 178 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: already been there to export. We are putting as much 179 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 3: gas through that pipeline as possible already, and see that 180 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: there's a bit of a delay in that trigger that 181 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 3: it would take about six months to work. And so 182 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 3: the government so far has been saying they're not going 183 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 3: to take any knee jerk steps and recognizing that there 184 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 3: are no short term problems and I guess putting the 185 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: focus on maybe what will come to next, which is 186 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 3: what you can do about this in the longer term, 187 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 3: which is to reduce our reliance on gas. 188 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: You read my mind. I remember during COVID that one 189 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: of the sentiments of the government was that it was 190 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: going to be a gas fired recovery, and that the 191 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: recovery of the economy would really rely on gas. So A, 192 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: has there been a shift from the life ask government 193 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: to this government and how they think about gas? And 194 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: B this government took more ambitious emissions targets to the 195 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: last election. How does that play into the role of 196 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: gas in our energy market today? 197 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, that gas led recovery language that you mentioned that 198 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 3: the government spoke about during the pandemic was a strange 199 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: one in the context of this situation where we know 200 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 3: that we are running down at our reserves of gas, 201 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 3: and it's certainly true that the gas we export is 202 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 3: giving Australia a lot of money, but we do know 203 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 3: that at some point, I mean, because of the climate 204 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 3: change implications of the gas that we use for a 205 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 3: number of other reasons, we're going to have to reduce 206 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 3: our reliance on gas at some point, and that the 207 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 3: general consensus is that the answer to that is a 208 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 3: lot more renewable energy. That renewable energy with the right 209 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: transmission and storage capacity is a lot more reliable our 210 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 3: coal infrastructure currently is, which is obviously contributing to part 211 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 3: of the problem, and to our gas reserves which we're 212 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: starting to bind down and which also have that emission's impact, 213 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 3: and so we know that for not only climate change reasons, 214 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 3: but for reliability reasons, an increased embrace of renewables, and 215 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: that's a take up that's been quite slow due to 216 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 3: kind of inactivity by both the federal government and state 217 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 3: governments over a long period of time. The general consensus 218 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 3: among experts is that no Australian governments have really been 219 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 3: taking this issue and the urgency of the transition or 220 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 3: preparing to transition away from gas and coal and towards 221 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 3: renewables seriously enough. And so that is starting to happen, 222 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 3: but it can't happen quickly. There are a lot of 223 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: quite significant changes. And the sense that I got from 224 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 3: speaking to experts this week is that one of the 225 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 3: reasons it's not an easy fix is that the changes 226 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 3: you've got to make to the energy grid to prepare 227 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 3: us for renewables to be able to take on a 228 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 3: bigger and bigger load, which again is sort of to 229 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: do with how can you kind of store renewable powerful 230 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 3: when the sun's not shining and all that sort of thing. 231 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: That's going to take a long time, and that in 232 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 3: general Australia is kind of ten to fifteen years behind 233 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 3: where it should be in preparing for this. So beginning 234 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 3: to think about that challenge and how we can I suppose, 235 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 3: accelerate that transition is a really important challenge for the government. 236 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: Tom I think we'll leave it there because I always 237 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,599 Speaker 1: find it interesting when we talk about these kind of 238 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: high level policy discussions during an election campaign and then 239 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: so soon after I have to see how they apply 240 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: in a real setting and how it applies to real 241 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: people like you and I and the price of gas 242 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: and electricity and all the rest. So an interesting discussion. 243 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: But thanks for jumping on today's episode, And if you 244 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: want to stay up to date with all the news 245 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: of the day, head over to our Instagram at the 246 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: Daily OS. It's where over three hundred and sixty thousand 247 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: ossies get their news every day, and we'd love to 248 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: have you over there. Have a brilliant Tuesday.