Speaker 1: Flex and Frooms, Flex and Frooms.
Speaker 2: This is the Flex and Frooms catch up podcast.
Speaker 1: It's Flexing and it's rooms on Kata. It's time for
Speaker 1: a story time FLEXI. We were having a conversation earlier
Speaker 1: about how I was on the Internet from a very
Speaker 1: very early age. I would say, pre pre social media Internet.
Speaker 1: I was very much plugged in. I was on your
Speaker 1: funny junks. I was definitely participating in MSN culture, okay,
Speaker 1: showing my age. However, I also did get involved in
Speaker 1: some email chains on behalf of my cousin getting sent
Speaker 1: the World's Worst Willy in two thousand and three and
Speaker 1: me saving it thinking it was a frog. No, sorry,
Speaker 1: she saved it into my folder of frog images.
Speaker 2: I mean for me to open it and look at it.
Speaker 1: It's my first one seeing a penis.
Speaker 2: Did you know?
Speaker 3: Could you identify?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was an interesting introduction to that world. Okay, So
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, this is when viral videos
Speaker 1: were like properly viral. There are a whole new category
Speaker 1: of media and one of the really popular ones was
Speaker 1: man going viral for a BBC interview with this guy.
Speaker 3: Can we pause for a second, how old were you
Speaker 3: in two thousand and six, ten, eleven, eleven. I know
Speaker 3: this is incredible stuff. I was telling for hims earlier.
Speaker 3: When I was eleven, I was just reading books. And
Speaker 3: I don't really think I got into the Internet properly
Speaker 3: until sixteen.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I had it, but I don't think
Speaker 3: I was. And it was social media that I had.
Speaker 3: I don't think I was like engaging in any other
Speaker 3: Internet things. I wasn't googling or like foruming or anything
Speaker 3: you were in it.
Speaker 2: I was. I was early adopted.
Speaker 1: I don't think I read a book until I was
Speaker 1: in high school and had to read for like I had.
Speaker 3: To say, slow you down the way you are now.
Speaker 2: It's true, I actually do like reading now.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I had to come to it like a horse
Speaker 1: to water.
Speaker 3: Did you see that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? What the religious popped off? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I saw that anyway, And I'm not going to address it.
Speaker 3: You people are sick.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So two thousand and six, there is a guy called
Speaker 1: Guy Gomer and he was accidentally interviewed the BBC. He
Speaker 1: came in for an interview for an IT position. They've
Speaker 1: mistaken him for somebody else and put him on a
Speaker 1: classic moment. He was saying for another guy called guy anyway,
Speaker 1: so that's kind of I get it anyway.
Speaker 3: I was like, is that a racism thing? But it's
Speaker 3: just the same name thing.
Speaker 2: What are the odds?
Speaker 1: Precisely anyway, he was on a podcast series called Accidental
Speaker 1: Celebrities where he spoke about the experience. I'm gonna play
Speaker 1: a little bit of the clip. It's kind of something
Speaker 1: that you need footage for. So if you're on tet Visual, yeah,
Speaker 1: type in BBC Accidental Interview and then I'll just play.
Speaker 4: Some days to see to come on me, because I
Speaker 4: wasn't expecting that. When I came as they told me
Speaker 4: something else and you got He's a big surprise anyway,
Speaker 4: A big.
Speaker 1: Surprise, yes, yeah, with regards to the cost that's involved.
Speaker 1: Do you think now more people will be downloading online?
Speaker 4: Actually, if you can go everywhere, even I see lots
Speaker 4: of people downloading.
Speaker 2: Okay, he's actually eating.
Speaker 3: So what we're seeing is this guy sitting in like
Speaker 3: a classic news production set up being interviewed. So he's
Speaker 3: gone to the BBC for an actual job interview, a position,
Speaker 3: and they've mistaken him for the expert they were meant
Speaker 3: to interview on tech related issues exactly what are the odds?
Speaker 1: And honestly he takes it very well, like you can
Speaker 1: see the confusion on his face. So what the BBC
Speaker 1: has done in the seventeen years since has used this
Speaker 1: footage as part of like Bloopers Real again and again
Speaker 1: and again. And this man is saying, I want some
Speaker 1: royalties for this. I want to see the BBC and
Speaker 1: they didn't answer him. Yeah, savagery so up mixed on
Speaker 1: our podcast, guys, I want to talk about what does
Speaker 1: the internet or what do rather broadcasters actually owe people
Speaker 1: when they reuse their image im perpetuity. We know that
Speaker 1: there's some like legalities around.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we should say the Internet broadly.
Speaker 3: I feel like the individual distribution of people's images usually
Speaker 3: goes a lot further than a broadcaster. I mean, I
Speaker 3: have images in my meme folder that I've curated for
Speaker 3: years of random people's faces on the Internet. I'm distributing
Speaker 3: as we speak.
Speaker 1: Yes, so this man's wants to sue the BABA say
Speaker 1: whether or not he will actually go through with them.
Speaker 1: Whether or not he will actually go through with it,
Speaker 1: I'm unsure. However, it made me think more broadly about
Speaker 1: the Internet and these people's images who use in perpetuity
Speaker 1: in this very small part of their life. Like I
Speaker 1: always think of a little boy that Eastbidy's putting your story, Gavin,
Speaker 1: Is that the guy?
Speaker 2: Wait? What is he doing? Gavin?
Speaker 3: And Gavin's like eleven now, and what's he doing living
Speaker 3: life like an eleven year old would? But he's big
Speaker 3: in China.
Speaker 1: I think we're talking about someone else. The boy I'm
Speaker 1: talking about is a little boy who's got the headphones
Speaker 1: on and he's like screen because the song's really Oh, Jay,
Speaker 1: he's a producer.
Speaker 2: Wait, so you know all the names of these people.
Speaker 2: I'm serious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's Jay. He's a producer. And at the time,
Speaker 3: so he started doing meme content because he's just a
Speaker 3: kid on the internet. But then he got really really
Speaker 3: famous for making memes, and then a couple of years
Speaker 3: ago he was like.
Speaker 2: I'm really serious about this music shit, as.
Speaker 3: All people on the internet say they are. But he's
Speaker 3: produced songs for Scissor like.
Speaker 2: Big Okay, WHOA.
Speaker 1: So who's the other kid you were talking about, Gavin?
Speaker 2: I'll show you.
Speaker 1: So my favorite meme person that is in perpetuity is
Speaker 1: the little boy in the in the in the monkey.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, the little redhead kid. Okay, Gavin,
Speaker 1: I fully am across. Yeah, does he Is he happy
Speaker 1: with that image being out there? I'm not sure, but
Speaker 1: he's going viral in China where that child is so cute.
Speaker 3: Love him.
Speaker 2: I understand the vision.
Speaker 1: So my favorite little boy in a meme is the
Speaker 1: boy in the monkey suit in Apple And he's like
Speaker 1: he's sitting and he's like, he's like, stay, do you
Speaker 1: guys know this?
Speaker 3: It's a boy if you have the reference, yeah, yea, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: bring the reference.
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's a little boy. And I'm sure there's like.
Speaker 3: At least six thousand people who'd be like, I know
Speaker 3: exactly what rooms is talking about. Okay, there's a boy
Speaker 3: in the Apple store.
Speaker 2: Monkey boy at Apple Store.
Speaker 3: I've never seen this.
Speaker 2: You are too deep for the Internet. I don't even
Speaker 2: know what side this is. Crawl out from little monkey
Speaker 2: and Apple Store. It is just like.
Speaker 1: So essentially, I often think about these people, Like sometimes
Speaker 1: I because I like putting the facial pictures on my Instagram,
Speaker 1: But then I think I'll do the people actually want
Speaker 1: it because it's them. That's why I like AI.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Internet is such a lawless place. So it's
Speaker 3: like literally in its infancy, it's it's a sperm going
Speaker 3: into an egg as we speak, and it's yet to
Speaker 3: like just state to incubate what it's meant to do,
Speaker 3: the thing it's meant to become. I think we're so
Speaker 3: many years and years and years away from it that
Speaker 3: anything we say it should be now, we're going to
Speaker 3: contradict tomorrow. For example, I remember we were having a
Speaker 3: conversation maybe a year ago now, referencing meme pages filming
Speaker 3: real people, like real local people, and creating jokes about them,
Speaker 3: especially when they're not being presented in a positive light.
Speaker 3: And it's not to say that we should make exceptions
Speaker 3: like if I'm just showing this girl's a really cute outfit,
Speaker 3: I should be allowed to share that, versus if I'm
Speaker 3: showing this girl vomiting on the side of the road.
Speaker 3: But either way, we were discussing how it felt funny,
Speaker 3: it didn't feel right, but none of us had the
Speaker 3: jurisdiction to say anything about it or to do anything
Speaker 3: about it. It's just a byproduct of being on the internet.
Speaker 3: I think it's trickier when it comes to corporations because
Speaker 3: it's very clear how they make their money, where they
Speaker 3: make them money, and what agenda they're pushing when they
Speaker 3: use your likeness, especially for free. And this term of perpetuity,
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a nark. I mean in any brand
Speaker 3: or client or corporation, there's I'm really annoying to work
Speaker 3: with because I will not let you have my likeness
Speaker 3: for more than a couple months, of course, but brands
Speaker 3: will stay putting perpetuity in. I'm fighting with the brand
Speaker 3: right now because in their head, they're kind of like
Speaker 3: the height of fame, the height of celebrity is being
Speaker 3: assigned so closely with the corporation because of that brand,
Speaker 3: almost like that brand filtering. That happens. You get a
Speaker 3: bit of their clout, they get a bit bit of
Speaker 3: your cloud. It's great, but usually what happens that you're
Speaker 3: getting a flat fee and they're monetizing on you forever
Speaker 3: and ever whatever. In the case of this guy who
Speaker 3: you know was being put in a weird situation and
Speaker 3: seventeen years later, they're still using his likeness, I think
Speaker 3: the tricky thing is going to find is that how
Speaker 3: can you really assign a value to what's happening here?
Speaker 3: And I think they might argue that we filmed it.
Speaker 3: You have consented to it by virtue of being in
Speaker 3: our studio and sitting in front of the camera. We
Speaker 3: own that footage. Yes, you might be able to sue
Speaker 3: us for using your likeness, but for what in particular?
Speaker 2: What will you usue us for? Exactly? Because we can't
Speaker 2: take it back?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of done. And can we retrospectively find
Speaker 3: every time we've used your image and every time someone
Speaker 3: else has used your image? And are we saying every
Speaker 3: time we the BBC directly reposted it, or the reach
Speaker 3: of how far and wide it's spread because we posted it.
Speaker 3: It's really really tricky. The Internet really really confuses me.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the rules are. Copyright is so
Speaker 3: how clear it is, it's also such a gray area
Speaker 3: as well. Do you remember that instance where Rihanna was
Speaker 3: doing a meet and greet with fans and journalists and
Speaker 3: things like that, and there was this one journalist who
Speaker 3: was wearing a T shirt with her.
Speaker 2: Image on it.
Speaker 3: She said, oh, where'd you get that? And he was
Speaker 3: like top Shop. She was like top Shop? You got
Speaker 3: that from top Shop? He was like yeah. Rihanna goes
Speaker 3: on to sue top Shop for using her likeness without permission. Naturally,
Speaker 3: but a business like top Shop, how do you not
Speaker 3: know that culture kings locally get sued all the time
Speaker 3: for using you know, they got sued by Mike Tyson
Speaker 3: recently for using his likeness on a T shirt without permission.
Speaker 3: I get it because it's weird, because it gets to
Speaker 3: what my celebrities feel like their fair game, Like they're
Speaker 3: so famous that you couldn't even reach them if you
Speaker 3: wanted to, and they couldn't reach you. How do you
Speaker 3: know what I'm doing in a random nowhere making a
Speaker 3: shirt and selling it for a couple of bucks.
Speaker 1: But poor Yoko owner and John Lennon When I bought
Speaker 1: a really cute dress that was tied ie with their
Speaker 1: face saying stop more, and I wore it to high
Speaker 1: school parties and.
Speaker 2: I thought, where is the love? Where is it?
Speaker 3: Where it's not to be found? I mean, good luck
Speaker 3: with that king. I hope someone takes that case pro
Speaker 3: bono and you win, but I doubt you will.
Speaker 1: Oh dear, it really does really quickly. It is crazy
Speaker 1: to think that we are in the prehistoric times of
Speaker 1: the internet.
Speaker 3: Happen were before the Neolithic before cavemen were just those
Speaker 3: isopods that they're gonna fight twenty five million years later.
Speaker 1: It's pretty crazy. Well, you're with flexing fromes.
Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Flex and Firms Daily podcast.
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