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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.

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Speaker 2: Now she says, and I quote. There were many unpopular

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Speaker 2: parenting rules I followed as a young mother, but my

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Speaker 2: number one was don't do anything for your kids that

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Speaker 2: they can do for themselves. Now I chafe a little

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Speaker 2: bit at that.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Is it beginning to feel a lot like Christmas?

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Speaker 2: It's been feeling like Christmas for weeks because of your

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Speaker 2: Christmas extra ness. So in the Happy Family's House over

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Speaker 2: the top day, our last house was a lot bigger

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Speaker 2: than the house we're in now. In moving to the beach,

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Speaker 2: we lost more than fifty percent of our house. We

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Speaker 2: moved from a house that was pretty big in Brisbane

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Speaker 2: to a house that's less than half of what we

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Speaker 2: used to have. But because we had such a big

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Speaker 2: house in Brisbane, you bought a second Christmas tree. You

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Speaker 2: had a Christmas tree in the family room and a

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Speaker 2: Christmas tree in the lange room. And even then it

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Speaker 2: still didn't really feel like Christmas.

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Speaker 3: There were just these so it was these tiny little pockets.

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Speaker 2: There were nice and green and decorated, but now the

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Speaker 2: same amount of decorations has completely overwhelmed our tiny little

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Speaker 2: beach shadow. I say that it was just it's greenery

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Speaker 2: and Christmas lights and it's everywhere. It's feeling like Christmas,

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Speaker 2: and our kids have been allowing us for the last

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks to get some Christmas carols happening. You know,

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Speaker 2: my favorite Christmas carol I love listening to. This one

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Speaker 2: is in terms of modern Christmas carols, there's a song

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Speaker 2: called God Rescu Merry Gentleman, and a group that used

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Speaker 2: to be around back in the late nineteen nineties when

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Speaker 2: I was on the radio, a group called the Bannaked Ladies.

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Speaker 2: They're a Canadian group and they're joined up with Sarah

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Speaker 2: McLaughlin and they've done God Rescu Merry Gentlemen. It's my favorite.

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Speaker 2: I have it on repeat. You've noticed I'm singing it

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Speaker 2: all the time. The kids know this song now because

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Speaker 2: it's my favorite Christmas song and that can carry all

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Speaker 2: the belt scarred rests Jim marry gentlemen. But nothing you dismay.

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Speaker 2: So yes, beginning to feel a lot like Christmas.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm also a bit excited because we actually booked

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Speaker 3: in our very first Christmas street birth.

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Speaker 2: Party, Christmas street party. It sounded like you said Christmas

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Speaker 2: strip party to me. I just wanted to be clear

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Speaker 2: that you said Christmas street party.

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Speaker 3: It was a street party, and you came up with

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Speaker 3: a brilliant idea to actually do it on the twenty

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Speaker 3: third of December. I thought you were crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've literally had one. The whole neighborhood has said

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Speaker 2: we're in Yeah. Yeah. So on Friday the twenty third,

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Speaker 2: it's a street party in our street for our street neighbors.

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Speaker 2: Just letting you know. But what we're trying to do

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Speaker 2: in our family and in our community, in our street

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Speaker 2: is build a sense of belonging, a sense of mattering,

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Speaker 2: a sense that we notice you when you're here, and

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Speaker 2: we notice when you're not here and we miss you.

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Speaker 2: So we've had a big Halloween. We also did a

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Speaker 2: big neighborhood breakfast and we had like fifty neighbors in

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Speaker 2: our yard. And now the Christmas party is going to

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Speaker 2: be in our yard as well, and I'm super excited

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Speaker 2: for that, like a couple of weeks away, and I'm

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Speaker 2: really really excited that we're creating these relationships the neighborhood

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Speaker 2: feels so good when we invite people to be a

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Speaker 2: part of our lives. And I think when I look

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Speaker 2: at the conversations, the emails that come through to podcasts

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Speaker 2: at happy Families dot com dot au, the questions that

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Speaker 2: people ask so often, people are saying, I feel osclated.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm doing it on my own. It's hard.

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Speaker 2: This is hard. It's hard for us to do Halloween

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Speaker 2: because we don't really care about it at all. It's

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Speaker 2: hard to wake up on a Saturday morning and have

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Speaker 2: fifty neighbors show up at seven thirty. It's actually really

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Speaker 2: hard to put on a Christmas party for the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: And yes it's potluck and people are bringing stuff and

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Speaker 2: so on, but we've still got to do the organization.

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Speaker 2: We've still got to facilitate it, and we've got to

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Speaker 2: do the cleanup that night or the next morning.

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Speaker 3: Well, and the reality is when we had everyone over

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Speaker 3: for the breakfast, they all talked about the fact that

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Speaker 3: they'd love to do a Christmas party, but nobody wanted

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Speaker 3: to take it on.

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Speaker 2: So there is this there's an appetite well, and.

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Speaker 3: There's an acknowledgment that they want these things, but so

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Speaker 3: often we sit back and wait for somebody else to

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Speaker 3: do it, and yet our lives are lacking as a result.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, this is just something that we're going to

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Speaker 3: do and I'm really excited about it. And you know

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Speaker 3: the reality is I could actually take it all on

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Speaker 3: and just do it all but I've decided that I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to do that because you actually build community

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Speaker 3: as you work together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as you serve each other. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I've got a handful of women who've all you

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Speaker 3: asked if they can be helpful, and I'm going to

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Speaker 3: take them.

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Speaker 2: Up on it too, right, can't wait? The podcast episode

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Speaker 2: that we're going to dive into today is not actually

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Speaker 2: about Christmas parties, but you started it by asking if

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Speaker 2: it was feeling Christmasy and we've gone on like a

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Speaker 2: like a three minute tangent, Missus Colson.

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Speaker 3: So well, it is almost December and everyone then can

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Speaker 3: technically be excited about Christmas?

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Speaker 2: Okay, fair, Cal. I want to dive into an article

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Speaker 2: that I found online. This is at the CNBC dot

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Speaker 2: com website, and the articles written by somebody called Esther

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Speaker 2: We're CHICKI so I haven't heard of Esther Wood Chicki before,

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Speaker 2: but she has a pretty tidy bi line. She's done

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Speaker 2: some pretty cool stuff esther where. Chicki is an educator, journalist,

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Speaker 2: and best selling author of How to Raise Successful People.

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Speaker 2: She's also the co founder of tract dot app and

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Speaker 2: the chief pairing officer at sesh. So you can find

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Speaker 2: her on socials and we'll link to this article from CNBC.

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Speaker 2: But I want to sort of pull a few things

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Speaker 2: apart here and talk about them because the principles she's

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Speaker 2: talking about are so valuable for any parent who wants

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Speaker 2: their kids to do well in life. And I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: sure that's like ninety nine point nine to nine percent

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Speaker 2: of parents that say, yes, I want my kids to

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Speaker 2: do well in life.

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Speaker 3: Because of the name of the article, you're a little

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Speaker 3: bit up in arms, and you thought we were going

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Speaker 3: to be having a pretty big debate.

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Speaker 2: But I read the article and I thought, oh, it's

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Speaker 2: not so bad.

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Speaker 3: Her articles called I raised two successful CEOs and a doctor.

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Speaker 3: Here's the unpopular pairenting rule I always used on my kids.

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Speaker 2: So I read that title and I'm like, what makes

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Speaker 2: people think that we're aspiring to raise CEOs and doctors?

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Speaker 2: Like I want my kids to grow up to be

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Speaker 2: who they want to be, who they're meant to be.

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Speaker 2: I want them to follow their energy, to experiment and

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Speaker 2: have range and breadth before they get depth. I'm not

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Speaker 2: interested in raising CEOs and doctors unless they're interested in

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Speaker 2: being CEOs and doctors, and then I want to facilitate

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Speaker 2: their pathways. So I got kind of cranky about the title.

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Speaker 2: You kind of did, I did, But then I started

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Speaker 2: to read and I thought, there's some stuff here that's

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Speaker 2: worth talking about, just to highlight. This is what she says,

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Speaker 2: and I quote, what's her number one rule? She says,

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Speaker 2: and I quote There were many unpopular pairing rules I

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Speaker 2: followed as a young mother, but my number one was

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Speaker 2: don't do anything for your kids that they can do

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Speaker 2: for themselves. Now I chafe a little bit at that,

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Speaker 2: because our children are capable of doing all kinds of

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Speaker 2: things at the right time when things are working out,

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Speaker 2: Like they're capable of cleaning their room, But if the

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Speaker 2: room is way too messy, or if it's late at

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Speaker 2: night and they're tired, or if they're hungry, or I mean,

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Speaker 2: we can come up with all sorts of reasons. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: they actually can't, even though most of the time they can,

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Speaker 2: And I just I just want to acknowledge that there's

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Speaker 2: a little bit of dray in this rule. It's not

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Speaker 2: a hard and fast.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think that's the hard thing. When you're

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Speaker 3: reading the written word, you're not actually having a conversation,

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Speaker 3: so you don't have all the context. You don't know,

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Speaker 3: but you know, based on what's on paper, it could

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Speaker 3: feel like you're taking a really hard line.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do that.

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Speaker 3: I'm not doing that.

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Speaker 2: It's not my job. Hie up your shoes because we

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Speaker 2: need to get in the car. We're going to be

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Speaker 2: late for school. But if you've got a child who's overwhelmed,

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Speaker 2: just had a really big anxiety riven morning, maybe they

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Speaker 2: can most of the time, but this morning, the actually can't.

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Speaker 3: So well, I've got children who are all capable of

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Speaker 3: making their school lunch.

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Speaker 2: We have children. I just want to put that out there.

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Speaker 3: You play a small part, all right, but the reality

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Speaker 3: is there are some days that if I do not

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Speaker 3: get in the kitchen yeah and get those lunches made,

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Speaker 3: we don't get to school on time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I think we just need to put that into context.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, great, So what she says, then, is that

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Speaker 2: worked out for my daughters? All three to be highly successful?

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Speaker 2: Susan is the CEO of YouTube, Janet is a doctor,

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Speaker 2: and Anne is the co founder and CEO of twenty

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Speaker 2: three and meter. So she's done alright with those kids.

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Speaker 2: That is pretty She's got some bragging rides. The next

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Speaker 2: part I thought, MEH, not so exciting, but I'm going

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Speaker 2: to read it anyway. She says parents need to stop

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Speaker 2: coddling their kids. The more you trust your child to

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Speaker 2: do things on their own, the more empowered they'll be.

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Speaker 2: Totally on board with that, and I love the word trust.

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Speaker 2: Got to trust that our kids are going to develop

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Speaker 2: if we give them the space and stop coddling them,

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Speaker 2: stop trying to do it or for them, stop trying

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Speaker 2: to smooth the path for them. Let them navigate the

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Speaker 2: rocky path and trust trust that they can. But then

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Speaker 2: she talks about this with some simple ideas. Waking up,

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Speaker 2: have them set their own alarm, getting dressed, let them

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Speaker 2: pick their own outfit, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Give them

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Speaker 2: simple tasks like stirring the pancake batter, cleaning their lunch

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Speaker 2: box and setting the table, getting their backpack ready. Have them,

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Speaker 2: run through a list what they need to bring that day,

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Speaker 2: making plans, let them come up with weekend or after

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Speaker 2: school activities, checking homework or you know how I feel

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Speaker 2: about homework. And then she says, chores are really important.

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Speaker 2: You got to make sure the kids are doing their chores,

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Speaker 2: and she talks about how to do that. So it

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Speaker 2: was fine. There's nothing offensive about that. It was just fine.

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Speaker 2: But the thing that really caught me was the section

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Speaker 2: about perfection. And this is what I love, because when

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Speaker 2: we get caught up in the quality about kids' efforts,

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Speaker 2: then they start to get caught up in that as well,

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Speaker 2: and they don't tend to do as well. So let

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Speaker 2: me read this. She said, I expected my daughters to

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Speaker 2: make their own beds every morning.

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Speaker 1: Ha.

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Speaker 2: A bed made by a kid can look like she's

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Speaker 2: still asleep in it. But I didn't fight them. As

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Speaker 2: long as they did it, I was happy.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not gonna lie. This is not a strong

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Speaker 3: point of mine at all.

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Speaker 2: You don't like this bit at all, But for years

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Speaker 2: and years I've always said to the kids, just make

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Speaker 2: the bed. I don't care how you make it. Just

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Speaker 2: make it. We'll come back and fix it later. If

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Speaker 2: we need to, but we just want you to make it.

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Speaker 2: We want you to learn the skill of making it.

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Speaker 2: And this is what Esther adds to this idea. She says,

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Speaker 2: mastery means doing something as many times as it takes

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Speaker 2: to get it right. Being a writing teacher taught me this.

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Speaker 2: In the eighties and nineties, one of the supposed characteristics

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Speaker 2: of a good teacher was that your class was so

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Speaker 2: hard that many students failed. And I remember those days.

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Speaker 2: In fact, being a university lecturer, I remember there was

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Speaker 2: an expectation that there was going to be a rating

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Speaker 2: on a bell curve and grading on a bell curve,

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Speaker 2: and there was supposed to be kids that were failing.

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Speaker 2: And I always had a problem with that. And here's

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Speaker 2: what she says. The kids who got a D on

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Speaker 2: their first paper found it impossible to recover and they

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Speaker 2: lost the motivation to improve since they were starting out

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Speaker 2: so far behind. So I gave them the opportunity to

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Speaker 2: revise their work as many times as they wanted. Their

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Speaker 2: grade was based on the final product, and when it

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Speaker 2: came time for testing, my students performed in the ninetieth

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Speaker 2: percentile on set exams.

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Speaker 3: So you've shared a story about another teacher who did

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Speaker 3: something similar, and I love that idea. The reality is,

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Speaker 3: in the real world, there are not many teachers.

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Speaker 2: Who do that. No, but I mean, this is a

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Speaker 2: big conversation about the education system. But are you there

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Speaker 2: to teach so that kids can get a grade or

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Speaker 2: are you there to teach so that kids can understand

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Speaker 2: the material?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Totally. I love it because the reality is, even in

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Speaker 3: the conversations that you've shared about your days at university

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Speaker 3: as a as a lecturer and a tutor, even though

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Speaker 3: you were your help was on offer, no one took

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Speaker 3: it up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was so worried about the grade, and

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Speaker 2: I kept on saying, no, no, if I work with you,

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Speaker 2: if you come to me, I'll read as many drafts,

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Speaker 2: I'll give you as much feedback because I want everyone

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Speaker 2: to get a high distinction. But they didn't want to

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Speaker 2: take me up on it. Well, well, for any number

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Speaker 2: of reasons. But what I love here is and Michael Nducleff,

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Speaker 2: she talked about it in our last summit, the Happy

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Speaker 2: Families Hot the summit. She wrote about it in a

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Speaker 2: hunt gathered parent and that is when parents simply invite

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Speaker 2: their children into their space and ask them to participate

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Speaker 2: with them in whatever they're doing, regardless of the quality

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Speaker 2: of the work. The kids are there, they're feeling a

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Speaker 2: sense of belonging. They're developing competence, but it happens slowly

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Speaker 2: over time, and they're choosing to be there, They're not

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Speaker 2: being forced to be there. It's like the story that

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Speaker 2: I shared on the podcast a couple of months ago

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Speaker 2: when I was outreking the leaves.

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Speaker 3: But I actually don't think it's about building. It's so building.

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Speaker 3: Competence obviously is a byproduct of what you're doing, but

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Speaker 3: what's actually happening is the relationship is being nurtured.

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Speaker 2: As the relationships nurtured, the kids feel safe to make

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Speaker 2: mistakes and to do the learning, and they actually choose

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Speaker 2: to be there because the relationship feels safe. So I'm

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Speaker 2: meeting those basic psychological needs. So I just thought it

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Speaker 2: was a really, really neat article, and I wanted to

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Speaker 2: do a podcast episode about it and link to it

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Speaker 2: in the show notes so people can read it. Just

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Speaker 2: some quick, simple parenting inspiration. You don't have to be

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Speaker 2: raising CEOs and doctors, but when you meet those needs,

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Speaker 2: when you give kids the opportunity to develop and grow,

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Speaker 2: to make those choices and to be in a safe relationship.

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Speaker 2: What happens is them more likely to choose to go

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Speaker 2: places where they flourish. They're more likely to have the

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Speaker 2: opportunities to flourish because they're developing that confidence and having

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Speaker 2: those experiences. That was the article, how to raise successful

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Speaker 2: CEOs and doctor the unpopular pairing rule I always used

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Speaker 2: on my kids. I'm curious, Kylie, to know whether or

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Speaker 2: not you think we do that very much. Do we

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Speaker 2: do things for our kids that they can do for themselves.

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Speaker 3: Probably me more than you. I have a bit of

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Speaker 3: an agenda. I like things a certain way, and so

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Speaker 3: you'll often find me and they're getting in there and

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Speaker 3: doing it just so it's done.

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Speaker 2: And there's also that level of complication where when you've

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Speaker 2: got a childho's refusing to, let's say, get dressed for

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Speaker 2: school and pack their bag. They are capable of doing it.

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Speaker 2: So do you force the issue, bearing in mind that

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Speaker 2: high emotions equals low intelligence and they're probably going to

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Speaker 2: move further and further away from getting it done. Or

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Speaker 2: do you just work with them on it. And I'm

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Speaker 2: inclined to not do it for them, but do it

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Speaker 2: with them no.

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Speaker 3: Yah, that's probably a really good kpy ot there. More

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Speaker 3: times than not, it's about working with them to achieve

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Speaker 3: the outcome. Time restraints, any number of things would stop

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Speaker 3: us from being able to kind of give them the

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Speaker 3: autonomy that they need in that moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so six words to help out here. I do it,

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Speaker 2: we do it, you do it, and if you go

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Speaker 2: through that process, you do it initially, then we do

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Speaker 2: it together, and then when they can finally do it

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Speaker 2: on their own, they do it. That's the method, that's

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Speaker 2: the approach. So we'll link to it in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, I hope that you enjoyed that podcast.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was worth the conversation. Tomorrow. A listener

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Speaker 2: question about a child, an eight year old who is

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Speaker 2: constantly lying. We're going to deal with the lying matter

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Speaker 2: in tomorrow's podcast. The Happy Family Podcast is produced by

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Speaker 2: Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer,

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Speaker 2: and if you'd like more information about making your family happier,

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Speaker 2: please visit us at happy families dot com dot au

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Speaker 1: St